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Was Jesus Legalistic

Was Jesus Legalistic?

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 ---jerry6593 on 3/3/13
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Haz: "Are you willing to answer for this flaw in SDA doctrine?"

Flaw? This is Bible doctrine - not SDA doctrine.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

You and Lee remind me of little disobedient children, looking for every opportunity to get away with something wrong. Your philosophy is "We can't obey perfectly, so why try at all". Jesus obeyed perfectly so that we would know that it could be done. Have you ever tried? Have you fought the good fight of faith or run the race for the prize? How is your philosophy different from that of Satan?



---jerry6593 on 3/21/13


Francis, you said it is over my head, and turn around and give a passage that tells me its over your head,

"Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments."

Malachi 4:4 proofs that the laws of Moses were for Israel. "Which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel" It does not say for other nations. hello?
I told you it was over your head. With one passage you made my case.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/13


Jerry boy //Do you think Jesus was a legalist? YES or NO?

It sounds to reason that if Jesus was a legalist, He would be like you SDAs and be obsessed with observance of the Sabbath. However, He put human needs far above observances.

Of course, you have to agree that since Jesus drank wine and ate meat, that He sinned. All you need to believe that is to believe in olde Ellen White, your "godly" wizard who when she was not copying the works of others, simply would "peep and mutter" (Isaiah 8:19)
---e.lee7537 on 3/21/13


I would never accuse Jesus of being a legalist. how can He be if He was perfect and He was perfect. If we tried to be Christ-like we would be labeled a fanatic. some already called me a fanatic but my flesh can only wish to be Christ-like, even tho I try everyday. I am trying to get in the habit of thinking if Jesus would do what I am thinking of doing.
---shira4368 on 3/21/13


Leeast: You are a legalist. Your religion is based on your law of self-exhaltation.

Do you think Jesus was a legalist? YES or NO?
--
The question is totally irrelevant because Jesus merely followed that nature by which He was born with.

Yes, for the Adventist that believes in the divinity of Ellen White, Jesus sinned when He drank wine and ate meat.

Sorry guy, but I read several of Ellen White books and can tell you the truth.
---e.lee7537 on 3/20/13




francis:

Yes, that is the text I meant. But note that Jesus does not anywhere teach that the Law of Moses should be disobeyed because it is not God's law.
---StrongAxe on 3/20/13


jerry6593. Can you try to answer what Francis, Samuelbb7 and others avoid answering.

You guys always declare that we must KEEP the law/10C.
BUT, as e.lee7537 said, you all fall short of it. The fact is you guys DON'T KEEP the law/10C in spite of your insistence we do so.
Your PARTIAL obedience is not the same as KEEPING the law, as KEEPING it means PERFECT obedience, James 2:10.

The fact that you guys DON'T KEEP the law only invalidates your claim. And the fact that you ALL AVOID discussing this shows you do realize this.

Are you willing to answer for this flaw in SDA doctrine?
---Haz27 on 3/20/13


Note that when Jesus is questions about divorce, he explains that God permitted it due to their hard hearts. ---StrongAxe on 3/20/13

Matthew 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Is this your reference text?

This says MOSES because of the hardness of the heart permitted it
---francis on 3/20/13


francis:

And yet Malachi commanded that one remember the law of Moses. He never said these laws were NOT from God. Note that when Jesus is questions about divorce, he explains that God permitted it due to their hard hearts. He never says that these were laws of Moses and not laws of God. The fact that he answered as he did implies that he DID consider the laws of Moses to be the laws of God.

Yet you always assume that when "law" is mentioned without any qualifiers, it ONLY means the Ten Commandments. Do you have any robust scriptural support for this?
---StrongAxe on 3/20/13


Leeast: You are a legalist. Your religion is based on your law of self-exhaltation.

Do you think Jesus was a legalist? YES or NO?



---jerry6593 on 3/20/13




Jerry //But there have been brief periods (usually right after prayer) when all my sins are forgiven and I haven't screwed up yet. In these periods, I am perfect.
----
Your evaluation of yourself is totally subjective. But you really need to look at yourself as God does, namely that you fall short of His glory and need the Savior.

Your religion is based on your feelings!
---e.lee7537 on 3/19/13


You quoted: Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Note the underlined part. None of that is in the Ten Commandments - they do not include any judgments for what happens if you break them, so the very scripture you quoted is ALSO talking about something OTHER than the Ten commandments.
---StrongAxe on 3/18/13

You got it right. That is exactly my point, Review my post again.

It is not talking about the law of God ( the ten commandments) it is talking about the law of Moses.

As you can see there is adifference between the law fo God and the law of Moses
---francis on 3/19/13


Jerry //I also understand that if I thought that perfection was impossible (as you do), I would give up trying altogether, and enjoy a life of sin. Why fight the good fight of faith or run the race for the prize (as Paul did)? Just lay down at the starting line and QUIT trying. Sad.
---
What is really sad is that you will never completely follow all the law all the time. Romans 7:19

The righteousness we seek is that imputed to us by Christ.Romans 1:17

The righteous live by faith, not by obedience to law, Galatians 3:11.

Until you accept that, you will continue to be discouraged.

The Lord accepts you despite your imperfections.
---e.lee7537 on 3/19/13


Leest: "If the Apostle Paul could not obey all the law all the time, certainly you do not."

I never said I did. But there have been brief periods (usually right after prayer) when all my sins are forgiven and I haven't screwed up yet. In these periods, I am perfect.

I also understand that if I thought that perfection was impossible (as you do), I would give up trying altogether, and enjoy a life of sin. Why fight the good fight of faith or run the race for the prize (as Paul did)? Just lay down at the starting line and QUIT trying. Sad.


---jerry6593 on 3/19/13


--Trav on 3/16/13

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners,.....

Romans 2:14 the Gentiles,... shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
---francis on 3/16/13

The Olive Tree is Israel....who was divided/divorced/put-away for adultery. Same tree...same people.
Gentile= ethnos,nations. Ethnos of Israel.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel AND with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 3/19/13


francis:

You quoted: Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

Note the underlined part. None of that is in the Ten Commandments - they do not include any judgments for what happens if you break them, so the very scripture you quoted is ALSO talking about something OTHER than the Ten commandments.
---StrongAxe on 3/18/13


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---Mark_V. on 3/18/13
This is of course over your head

But look at the words of God:

Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

The Lord himself acknowledges a special law whcih the lord himself named as THE LAW OF MOSES


Look at the word of God again:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people:

I know you willnot get it but try anyway
---francis on 3/18/13


Jerry It does indeed take a very very very small mind for one to actually believe they stand perfect in the eyes of God by the obedience to the law.

Romans 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

If the Apostle Paul could not obey all the law all the time, certainly you do not.

All the law does to you is to condemn you as at the end of the day, you are still a law breaker.
---e.lee7537 on 3/18/13


francis, all of the laws given to Israel are the laws of God. Moses Laws were Laws from God. Whether they were the Ten Commandments or all the statues or judgments. Ten Commandments were written in tablets not tables. The passages in every case is speaking to Israel. All of Israel is still under that Law. Israel is still not saved. While under the law they are still under condemnation for trying to keep the law and always failing. What they need is not more laws, they need the Lord Jesus Christ who only has kept the Law perfect. Why don't you join a true Christian Church so that you can take that yoke off of your back. Like Steve Young took the monkey off his back.
---Mark_V. on 3/18/13


Leest" "It really takes a very very very small mind for one to actually believe they stand perfect in the eyes of God."

Oh, you mean like these guys?:

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Php 3:14,15 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


---jerry6593 on 3/18/13


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Francis //I would like to invite you to be part of those who keep ALL the TEN commandments of God AND have faith in Jesus
---
Romans 2:23 You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law.

It really takes a very very very small mind for one to actually believe they stand perfect in the eyes of God.

Anything worthwhile has to be from the working of God's Spirit within the believer.

1 Cor. 1:30-3 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.
---e.lee7537 on 3/17/13


I would like to invite you to be part of those who keep ALL the TEN commandments of God AND have faith in Jesus
---francis on 3/17/13

BUT you DON'T KEEP the 10C. In fact no SDA's do.

KEEPING the 10C means PERFECT obedience, James 2:10.
You and other SDA's only offer PARTIAL obedience, which is NOT KEEPING the 10C.

As you believe PARTIAL obedience is the same as KEEPING the 10C, what level of PARTIAL obedience is required?
---Haz27 on 3/17/13


StrongAxe now this is how we are 100% sure that it is the ten commandments that are written in our hearts

Deuteronomy 4:13 he declared unto you ...ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

2 Corinthians 3:3 written ..with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

See here it is the same law that was written in stone now written upon our hearts

Now contrary to what you see others post, those who believe in Jesus do have the ten commandments (NOT NINE) written in their hearts

I would like to invite you to be part of those who keep ALL the TEN commandments of God AND have faith in Jesus

what do you say?


---francis on 3/17/13


---StrongAxe on 3/16/13
ONE:
Deuteronomy 4:12 the LORD SPAKE UNTO YOU..: ye HEARD THE VOICE.. And HE DECLARED unto YOU his ... ten commandments, and HE WROTE them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 5:22 These words the LORD SPAKE... HE ADDED NO MORE And HE WROTE them in two tables of stone,


TWO:
Deuteronomy 4:14 And the LORD COMMANDED ME at that time to TEACH YOU statutes and judgments,...
Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Jeremiah 7:22 I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them...concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

can you tell which is the law of God and which is law of Moses?
---francis on 3/17/13


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francis:

You're right, I apologize. I did a search for the words "ten commandments", and misread the page, thinking there were zero matches (in fact, there were three, below the line).

Nevertheless, I only mentioned that in passing. My main argument remains - that when "the law" or "the commandments" are mentioned, they don't specify which ones - and there are quite a few different lists. In particular, when Jesus was asked which commandmens were the most important ones, he quoted "Love God" and "Love your Neighbor" - neither one of which is in the Ten Commandments, so clearly the word "commandments" alone does NOT always refer to the Ten.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/13


Francis //Acts 15:9 no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

The verse tells us that as far as God was concerned, believers were believers whether they were of the circumcision Sabbath party and those of the Gentiles.
It does not tell us the obvious that there were differences of conviction among believers.
---e.lee7537 on 3/16/13


--Trav on 3/16/13

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God, And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

Acts 15:9 no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Romans 2:14 the Gentiles,... shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
---francis on 3/16/13


It is the smae law, ten commandments that God writes in the hearts of all people who receive Jesus, ---francis on 3/13/13

I can only find scripture of these laws "written" in the house of Israels heart. Show scripture where you find all? .
Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, they shall be to me a people:
Jer 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people
---Trav on 3/16/13


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Leest: "The fact is that the Jews continued in observing the tenets of the Old Covenant as the New covenant was being ushered in."

The tenets of the New Covenant are exactly the same as those of the Old - God's (not man's) Law. The fact is Jesus and ALL His disciples kept the Ten Commandment Law. Are you saying that Jesus was a legalist? My religion is the religion of God. Yours is the religion of pagan-influenced apostates which arose well after the time of Christ. That's why you're always fighting against scripture to justify your own apostasy.



---jerry6593 on 3/16/13


francis//How do you interpret these?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
----
The fact is that the Jews continued in observing the tenets of the Old Covenant as the New covenant was being ushered in.

Why do you suppose that once Gentiles became believers a decision had to be made as for their legitimacy? Rad Acts 15.
---e.lee7537 on 3/15/13


Jerry //Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

This is not a command to observe the OT Sabbath. Jesus was talking to the Jews who took exception to His disciples picking grain to eat on the Sabbath.

Human needs overrule the observance of the Sabbath (see previous 2 verses)

Being lord of the Sabbath meant that Jesus was not bound by its tenets.

The question what not who should keep the Sabbath, but how it should be kept by Jews under the old covenant.

Sorry Jerry but you failed again to convince anyone that they need to observe the Jewish Sabbath.
---e.lee7537 on 3/15/13


The Bible never even uses the term "Ten commandments".
---StrongAxe on 3/14/13

I am very disappointed in you

Exodus 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights, he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.
---francis on 3/15/13


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---StrongAxe on 3/14/13
I have already gone through that in many blogs, look up:
Law Of God Versus Moses
Is there any difference between what the Bible refers to as the law of God (Romans 7:22,25) and the law of Moses (Acts 15:5)?
by lee1538 on 10/24/11



---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13
You do understand that act 20 tookplace satrday evening and paul went on his way sunday morning right?
You do understand that God day starts not at sunrise, but at sunset?
---francis on 3/15/13


Leest: "Then how do you interpret Acts 20:7 which speaks of the fact that the disciples broke bread upon the first day of the week."

Duh! Maybe they were hungry. It was Saturday night, and Paul left on a trip at daybreak on Sunday.

How do you interpret these?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments, and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. [FYI, that's not Sunday.]



---jerry6593 on 3/15/13


francis:

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 mentions God's "commandments". No mention of "10". Why not the 613?

Psalms 119:43-44 mentions "law". not WHICH law.

James 2:12 mentions "law of liberty". Read Romans 7 carefully. Paul speaks of bondage to The Law, and how we are free of it, so it's NOT "librerty".

None of your points point out WHICH commandments are referred to.

The Bible never even uses the term "Ten commandments". Exodus 20 and Deut. 5 list them, but Deut. 6 says WHY: "that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it" - which clearly doesn't apply to US.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/13


Francis is grossly ignorant of early church history if he believes Christians broke bread with the Jews in the synagogues.

If he were to read church history he would certainly see the battles the early church leaders had with the Jewish leaders. Non-Christian Jews grew to hate Christians and even caused problems with the Apostles when they preached the gospel.

Acts 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ. And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads, I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
.
---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13


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Francis //Nothing is said about lord's supper on Sabbath or Sunday or on any particular day

Then how do you interpret Acts 20:7 which speaks of the fact that the disciples broke bread upon the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week(=Sunday), when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them,

If you were to read church history you would find that the non-Jewish church always gathered on the first day of the week to break bread even to today.

Sabbaterian has yet to find anything to support their contention either from the Bible or church history.

You really should accept reality. All you can do is to honk the old Covenant 10 commandments.
---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13


--e.lee7537 on 3/14/13
1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

Nothing is said about lord's supper on sabbath or sunday or on any particular day

Acts 2:46 they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house,

So should we call everyday the lord's days seeingthey met daily and broke bread daily?

I have said this before:
Every church keeps a form of sabbath,

If your pastors truely believed that the sabbath is nailed to the cross why try to bring it back:

Galatians 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
---francis on 3/14/13


--StrongAxe on 3/13/13
We know that romans 2:14 talks about the ten commandments, because associated with the Law of Romans 2:14 is the judgment.
We will all de judged by the ten commandments
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, Psalms 119:43-44, James 2:12

The idea that the 7 day week is jewish is false. The 7 day week comes from God, more specifically the word of God and existed before there was a single jew, or gentile alive

The elationship between the earth and itself gives us a day, the relationship between the earth and the moon gives us a month, and the reslationship between the eartha nd the sun gives us a year. We get a 7 day week by the word fo God
---francis on 3/14/13


//we are told that there are Christians in the synagogue, why are these gentiles not meeting with Paul and these Christians NEXT DAY.

the early church was built around the Jewish synagogues however, it was the habit of Christians to break bread (Lords Supper) when they met. They COULD NOT that in the synagogues, so they met on the first day of the week to do so.

Acts 20:7a And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread...

When opposition arose among the Jews against Christians, they could no longer partake of the synagogues worship.

Church historians, some are Adventists, tell us the church no longer observed the Sabbath by the beginning of the 2sd century.
---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13


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--Peter on 3/13/13
So why reference that it is taught every Sabbath day? How does it benefit a gentile convert if the word of God is read every Sabbath day, and he is not present to hear it?

Now look at this:
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Why do these eager gentiles have to wait ONE WHOLE WEEK?

In verse 43 we are told that there are christians in the synagogue, why are these gentiles not meeting with Paul and these christians NEXT DAY?


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures

makes MANY converts Never takes them away from the sabbath
---francis on 3/13/13


francis:

You quote Romans 2:14 that mention the law - and you assume that law is "the ten commandments". How do you know that it is just those ten? Can you cite chapter and verse that says that when "the law" is mentioned, it specifically refers to these and no others?

For example, the idea of a 7-day week is a particularly Jewish one. Other cultures (such as the Romans) did not have it - even though they DID have the general prohibitions against murder, theft, perjury, etc. And they also had many gods and idols, so clearly the first few commandments weren't included either.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/13


Francis: So it seems that the Council of Jerusalem only has 4 things: abstain from idols, unchastity, that which has been strangled and from blood.

But that which is sometimes debated, as to whether it is the Sabbath or the day after that worship is to be held, is not mentioned.

In those days Moses (the OT) was read on the Sabbath, but this was not required - or it is not said there
---Peter on 3/13/13


---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13

Acts 15:20 that they abstain from things strangled ( DIETARY LAW Deuteronomy 14:21), and from blood (DIETARY LAW Leviticus 17:12 ).

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old ( word of god) time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues EVERY SABBATH DAY.

nothing then for sunday keeping gentiles?
YOu see how easy thebible proves your wrong



---StrongAxe on 3/12/13
Ok now look at this:

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things ...shew the work of the law written in their
hearts

It is the smae law, ten commandments that God writes in the hearts of all people who receive Jesus,
---francis on 3/13/13


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Francis//Can you give me some examples of what laws of God you think the gentiles would keep.

Common moral law is to be found in all societies no matter no primitive. However such distinctively Jewish laws, the Sabbath, the dietary laws, etc. were not given or required of Gentile believers.

Since Romans 2:14 states that the Gentiles were able to instinctively do what the law required, then how on earth, could this be if they did not observe the Sabbath?

The Council of Jerusalem Acts 15 needed not impose anything distinctively Jewish onto Gentile believers, howbeit, they did take into account the fact that there were Jewish believers in many of the early Gentile churches and their individual convictions had to be honored.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


francis //But notice Paul on Mars hill talking to idol worshipers

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent: After Mars hill those who accepted the message of God should not only keep the last 6 which they had but the first four including the Sabbath because: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, Acts 17:24

Agree that the sin that confronted Paul was gross idolatry. And it was that idolatry Paul asked the Athenians to repent of. Nowhere is there any indication that he had requested of them to convert to Judaism and obey laws given ONLY to Israel.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


francis:

You asked: Can you give me some examples of what laws of God you think that the gentiles would keep.

Most societies, regardless of religious background (and even those without, such as communist ones) have laws against murder, theft, perjury, and adultery, and treat their elders with respect. That's half of the Ten Commandments right there. These were also codified in the Code of Hammurabi, much earlier than the Law of Moses.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/13


Scripture teaches that the Gentiles who did NOT have the LAW, instinctively could observe what the law required.
---e.lee7537 on 3/10
Can you give me some examples of what laws of God you think that the gentiles would keep.

We will both agree that they would not keep dietary laws, they wold have made idols, they woudl not have kept the sabbath

So what laws do you think these gentiles kept?
---francis on 3/11/13


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---e.lee7537 on 3/10/13
Most people even without a written law know that they should:
Honour our father and thy mother:
Do not kill.
Do not not commit adultery.
Do not steal.
Do not not bear false witness
Do not covet:

They would not have the first 4 commandments

But notice Paul on Mars hill talking to idol worshipers

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

After Mars hill those who accepted the message of God should not only keep the last 6 which they had but the first four including the Sabbath because: God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, Acts 17:24
---francis on 3/11/13


Francis //But you are right, it is those who do not have the law in their hearts who accuse those who have the law, and keep the law of legalism.

Scripture teaches that the Gentiles who did NOT have the LAW, instinctively could observe what the law required.

Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

The question is since the Gentiles did by nature do what the law required, then did they observe the OT Sabbath, the dietary laws, etc?

Not all the 600+ OT laws were written onto believers hearts as laws distinctively Jewish in nature as the Sabbath and circumcision went out with the Old Covenant.
---e.lee7537 on 3/10/13


francis, you finally admited you are a legalistic person, which is what I have been telling you for a long time. Like the Pharisees. When you say,

"But you are right, it is those who do not have the law in their hearts who accuse those who have the law, and keep the law of legalism."

The legalist of Jesus day were the Pharisees, and Jesus reserved His strongest criticism for them. The fundamental distortion of legalism is the belief that one can earn one's way into the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisees believed that due to their status as children of Abraham, and to their scrupulous adherence to the law, they were children of God. At the core, this was denial of the gospel. Thanks for admitting it to all.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/13


Follower_of_Christ:

You said:
"legalistic" is a term used by those who do not have the laws of God written on their hearts. Remember, these people are not subject to the laws of God!! Romans 8:7


No. Those who DON'T have the law written on their heart are often legalistic, relying on literal wording, without understanding their intent. The Pharisees had interpretations about every single Old Testament law, elaborating details on details. Also, these additional rules often subverted the intent. Jesus chewed out the Pharisees because their rule of "korban" derived from "honor your parents" allowed one to do the exact opposite.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/13


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"legalistic" is a term used by those who do not have the laws of God written on their hearts. Remember, these people are not subject to the laws of God!! Romans 8:7
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/9/13

I have never considered that
But you are right, it is those who do not have the law in their hearts who accuse those who have the law, and keep the law of legalism.

Good insight
---francis on 3/9/13


"legalistic" is a term used by those who do not have the laws of God written on their hearts. Remember, these people are not subject to the laws of God!! Romans 8:7

Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Only those who love God keep his commandments

Daniel 9:4
"... keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments"

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (are not a burden).
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/9/13


Was Jesus Legalistic?
---jerry6593 on 3/3/13

NO
for two reasons
1: Obedience to the ten commandments is the standard of righteous living
Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.


2: the idea of "legalism" is the idea that one can be saved by keeping the law. Jesus was never in need of salvation. His keeping the law was His righteousness, which he them credits to us as justification for our believing
---francis on 3/9/13


Bro. elee, that was a great answer you gave Jerry. Explained very well. So good that Jerry had only answers directed to you personally. He knows you above everyone else has brought more Truth concerning the Law then anyone, the reason he tries everytime to insult you. He wants to bait you to answer as he does when he doesn't have no answers from Scripture. Keep bringing the Truth brother, I have learned a lot from your answers.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/13


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Leest: The trouble is that you have apparently never made it to Christ, since you didn't have a schoolmaster to get you there. You often state that the only remaining Law is "love thy neighbor", and yet you often demonstrate that you don't really keep that law either.

Stick to the blog question - was Jesus legalistic since He kept the Ten Commandments? Do you want to be like Him?


---jerry6593 on 3/8/13


Jerry, you have no good answer so you answer with,
" Perhaps you are running headlong into the pit of Satan. How would you know without Jesus' Ten Commandment Law?" First, you did not have to make such a comment, "heading into the pit of satan" you run out of answers and resort again to your wicked behavior.
Second, there is no Jesus Ten Commandments in the ministry of Jesus while walking the earth. The Ten Commandments were given to Israel to teach what sin was, and you have not learned what sin is from the Ten Commandments since you sin every time you answer. You are getting to be just like francis with your comments.
---Mark_V. on 3/8/13


We see from Gal 4:4, Matt 23:1-3 and 28:20 that our Lord was under the law of Moses and taught His disciples complete subjection to the law. In obedience to His instructions in Matt 28:20 the twelve taught their hearers subjection to Moses law and set the example themselves
---michael_e on 3/7/13


//Yes, of course. That's why we need it! Tell me, without the law as your schoolmaster, how do you know which way to run to Christ?

Very Obvious that you are totally unfamiliar with the Epistle to the Galatians.

(3:24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

?That we might be WHAT JERRY?

AND THEN? What else does it say?

(3:25) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

NO LONGER UNDER WHAT JERRY?

Yes, Jerry, you need to law as those without the indwelling Holy Spirit really have no other guide.
---e.lee7537 on 3/7/13


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trey: "Jerry, do you understand that the law is our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ."

Yes, of course. That's why we need it! Tell me, without the law as your schoolmaster, how do you know which way to run to Christ? Perhaps you are running headlong into the pit of Satan. How would you know without Jesus' Ten Commandment Law? What's wrong with doing it God's way? Try it. You may like it.


---jerry6593 on 3/6/13


Jesus was Jewish. He was circumcised the eight day, he ate kosher food, he kept the feast days, and he followed the law of Moses. He also recognized the special standing that Israel had with God as being separate from the Gentiles (Mat 10:6).
---michael_e on 3/6/13


Jerry, do you understand that the law is our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. When we truly understand the law then we truly understand how far we fall short. When a Christian realizes that the law does not bring life, he should then turn and run to Christ for mercy and grace.

Gal4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

I'm of the freewoman, how about you?
---trey on 3/5/13


what Jesus was is sinless. it doesn't matter what man says, Jesus Christ was perfect and never never sinned.
---shira4368 on 3/5/13


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Jerry, for your information Jesus Christ is the only person who kept the whole law. No man has kept the whole law but Christ. So do not compare the SDA's to the Lord. They are all sinners. Even you. So your comparison is of the flesh. Bias towards your denomination. With a lot of pride.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


In my reading of the Bible, I find that Jesus observed strict adherance to the Law of God (The Ten Commandments), but He had utter disdain for artificial, man-made laws. He observed the Seventh-day Sabbath, rather than a man-made counterfeit (Sunday), and decried the artifical rules and rituals of the Pharisees. If that is legalism, then we all should embrace it.




---jerry6593 on 3/5/13


Christ was a witness to thousands. they watched Him preach God, heal the sick, rescue many and yet some didn't believe. they accused him of being satan because of the miracles Jesus performed. He was almost always accompanied by the diciples.
---shira4368 on 3/5/13


Christ's critics claimed that he was a winebibber, a friend to publicans and sinners, that his disciples broke the Sabbath and that he was a blasphemer and cast out devils by Beelzebub. Yet Christ "fullfilled" the law to a jot and to a tittle.

For those who believe they keep the law they do not understand that to keep the law one must be as perfect as Christ. Any man, except Christ, that believes he is sinless is a blasphemer and the Truth is not in him.
---trey on 3/4/13


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//John 8:1-11 > If Jesus was legalistic, He would have agreed to have the adulteress stoned to death, because adultery is a capital offense under the law of Moses (Leviticus 20:10).//

There was no one left to accuse her. Jesus could not accuse her because all He had was second hand information. There needed to be a first-hand accuser. Just saying...
---Rod4Him on 3/4/13


Jesus definitely was not a legalist!!! Persons who practice legalism "ALWAYS" major in the minors, i.e., get themselves bogged down in nonessential details (in the weeds). Their explanations are "ALWAYS" too detailed. Why? They're not trying to "reason with & persuade" you with the facts you already know to be true. Instead, "they want to convince" you to believe the way they do regardless of the facts. After all, they're right & you're "ALWAYS" wrong in their eyes!

Legalist run wild on CN blogs.
---Leon on 3/4/13


some people take legalism way too far. I know churches that are full of legalism. some define what you wear. Jesus never said anything about what we wore except He told women to dress like a woman and men to dress like a man. I have friends who travel and sing and they were ban from a church because one wore a sleeveless dress. dumbest thing I ever saw in my life. a group of churches ban them for the same reason. boy oh boy, what they are missing.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13


Willie_c: on 3/3/13. That was the perfect answer to this question. Thank you
---Josef on 3/4/13


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John 8:1-11 > If Jesus was legalistic, He would have agreed to have the adulteress stoned to death, because adultery is a capital offense under the law of Moses (Leviticus 20:10).

And Jesus told that healed man to pick up his bed and carry it, on the Sabbath. Certain Jews clearly understood He was telling the man to break the Sabbath > plus, the Bible itself says >

"Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God." (John 5:18)

Exodus 31:15 > It is a death penalty offense to do "any work on the Sabbath day".
---willie_c: on 3/3/13


Jerry,

could you clarify what you mean by Legalistic ??

Are you asking did Jesus obey the Law?

Are you asking did Jesus obey the Law because he thought He was going to burn in hell if He didn't?

Are you asking did Jesus obey the Law for no other reason than simply that it existed?

Are you asking did Jesus obey the Law after the covenant of the Law was done away with by His death?
---James_L on 3/3/13


Was Jesus Legalistic?
---jerry6593 on 3/3/13

Define legalistic
---francis on 3/3/13


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