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Free Will In Bible

Is the statment, "Free will" anywhere in the Bible? How did this concept come to be? Where did it began? Did God say such words? That man's own will is free? If it is true, and people get so angry when told there is no free will, it should be mentioned hundreds of times.

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 ---Mark_V. on 3/8/13
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*He keeps the blood-line pure: Repeatedly

Deuteronomy 20:17 "But thou shalt utterly destroy them, namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:"

Deuteronomy 20:18 "That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods, so should ye sin against the Lord your God."

*Death and resurrection: All are given the option Life or death Ysha-God rescues - Past and future.(Heb2:14)

I Peter 3:18-20
Jn3:16
---char on 3/13/13


All given opportunity:Life/Death
Heb 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same, that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is the devil,"
Ez 28:18-19

I Peter 3:18-20
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

"By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
(Which sometime were disobedient)
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water."
Jn3:16
---char on 3/13/13


Persons practicing legalism "ALWAYS" FREELY CHOOSE to major in the minors, i.e., get themselves bogged down in non-essential details (in the weeds). Their explanations are "ALWAYS" too detailed, off topic & off track (derailed). Why? They're NOT WILLING nor are they trying to "reason with & persuade" you with the facts you already know to be true. Instead, "they want to convince" you to believe the way they do, regardless of the facts. After all, they're right & you're "ALWAYS" wrong, at least in their eyes! :)

Mark "freely chooses" not to hear the Bible Truth that sets captives free!
---Leon on 3/13/13


Kathr, I see John 3:16 very well.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"
That is pretty simple. God loved what He created. Exactly as He created it. God gave His only Begotten Son, for what people? Whoever believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life. Which also supposes that whoever does not believe in Him, will perish and go to hell.
And who are those that belief?
Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12,13).
---Mark_V. on 3/13/13


StrongAxe: Great post! MarkV believes that he was SAVED from the foundation of the earth. But the Bible tells us that Jesus came to seek and to save the LOST. So that would rule him out, wouldn't it?



---jerry6593 on 3/13/13




Markv, I also know your TERM "made alive " has a different meaning and application than what I believe or what scripture teaches.

I was made alive after I died with Christ, that is crucified with Christ. And that came after I was FIRST Justified by Faith in His Blood.

So I was first Justified by His Blood, and "saved "or "made Alive",(what ever word you feel comfortable with,) by His life. That is His RISEN LIFE after He was crucified buried and rose again....

You claim OT people were "made alive" cheapening the meaning of Born Again, and also cheapening the meaning and reality of Jesus Death and resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 3/13/13


Markv, I'm shocked you can't see John 3:16, and 1st John, in that while we were ALL yet sinners Christ died not only for our sin, but the sin of the "whole world." For God so loved "the WORLD "that He Gave HIs Son.

Because you again play word-games with "THE WORLD " changing it to mean the elect only? So convenient for you to change any word you feel FREE to fit YOUR doctrine. How many words in scripture mean ELECT? Ans : You claim All the ones that YOU DECIDE DO.

It might work if ALL scripture that says "WORLD"= elect ! ,you might be able to PROVE THROUGH SCRIPTURE your doctrine....but if you like, let's find verses with WORLD and replace with ELECT and see how bazaar your mind works.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/13


Mark_V.:

The exact words "free will" aren't in the Bible, but neither is the word "determinism", its opposite. there are many concepts that are expressed in the Bible that may not be mentioned as one or two specific words, but they are there nonetheless - and we have created words to more easily describe them.

The Bible DOES frequently exhort us to CHOOSE to follow or obey God. Such exhortations would be meaningless if we did not, ultimately, have the freedom to choose in the first place. This implies that we have free will to make choices, and be held accountable for those choices. It would also be unfair for God to punish us for actions that we had no choice in committing.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/13


Kathr, you now say "what???" because you are not one of the one's He made alive that is why you do not understand.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved "us" even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ, by grace you were saved.
To whom was Paul talking about? "The one's God made alive", what were they before He made them alive, "dead in trespasses" So who are the "us" and the "we"? all believers. It is no wonder you understand nothing that is why you say "What???"
Your shocked. really? Why am I not surprised?
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


Leon, you are right yet AGAIN!(lol) It's the ol' carrot-on-a-stick trick. I gave M.V. my warning and this time it will stay! I'm fed up.
---Gordon on 3/12/13




//James_L on 3/12/13//
Love this opportunity kneeling to Elohyim as Father for His Wisdom, Praising Him for His completed plan testified and confirmed Anointed
death and resurrection of His Word manifested in flesh, Son of God Jesus the Christ, Immanuel(God with us) Ysha(God rescues/saves)

I Jn 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which He hath testified of His Son."


His purpose: Is defined within the very names given
His Kingdom come thy will be done...
Ysha:God Saves/delievers/rescues
Immanuel (God with us)

NOTHING interferes His Will-Purposed plan: Pure Blood/seed line Gen21:9-13,Jn 3:16
Example: Deut 20:17

Continued'
---char on 3/12/13


"Gordon, what truth have you shown? [It's] all been, your truth, not the Truth from Scripture...you hear about God & who He is, you cannot take it anymore. You prefer to run & hide...like those when they hear the Truth, they also run & hide, & very angry too. Here is proof of the bondage of your own will. You think you have free will to reject the truth...but it only proof your will is not free...you [aren't] willing to come to the Truth so you run..."
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


Don't go there Gord!!! Mark just wants to rant nonsense, bait & then throw you (me & anyone else who disagrees with him) under the Ritlan bus! Remember, "the wheels on the bus go round 'n' round". LOL
---Leon on 3/12/13


Gordon, what truth have you shown? It has all been, your truth, not the Truth from Scripture. When you hear about God and who He is, you cannot take it anymore. You prefer to run and hide, just like those when they hear the Truth, they also run and hide, and very angry too. Here is proof of the bondage of your own will. You think you have free will to reject the truth or not, but it only proof your will is not free. It is bias towards God. In Scripture it is called emnity against God. Is that the free will you talk about? No one has a gun to your head, yet you are not willing to come to the Truth so you run. Until God opens your eyes, then you will see the God of the Bible. Let me say, He is Almighty omnipotent God who is obligated to no one.
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

---James_L on 3/12/

JamesL we too see in 2nd Timothy 3 that it's going to become that way again. This time it won't be by flood but by fire.

Just as man seered his own conscience leading up to the flood, man today as we can so clearly see is once again seering his own conscience.
---kathr4453 on 3/12/13


To what extend God controls the circumstances so one will make choices can always be debated.

---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13
Well, God never gave man a choice to be a cow for instance. He also never gave one a choiice to grow wings and fly to the moon. Agreed.

But God did give man a CHOICE to chose Life or Death, to chose Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for sin, or not.

But no infant ever chose water baptism causing regeneration and entry into the Kingdom of God. Their parents mis-lead Calvin doctrine did. And even poor ol Calvin said he was regenerated at his infant baptism.

Talk about man saving himeslf....now when was THAT way ever a choice God gave for salvation?
---kathr4453 on 3/12/13


e.lee7537, And I will point out to you, also, the Verse in HEBREWS 10:29 "Of how much sorer Punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of GOD, and hath counted the Blood of the Covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite to the Spirit of Grace?" That word "sanctified" is referring to the Saved person, and NOT to YAHUSHUA (JESUS), as another here tried to contend. For the subject is about the Saved person. A person had been Saved (sanctified) yet has trodden the Lord and His Blood underfoot, ripe for Punishment if gone unrepentant.
---Gordon on 3/12/13


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Gordon -I simply view and accept the definition of free will - the ability of agents to make choices unconstrained by certain factors.

To what extend God controls the circumstances so one will make choices can always be debated.

//You cling to the LIES of OSAS and the FALSE interpretation of Predestination.

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

If you reject the fact one becomes a child of God through the work of Gods Spirit, and can lose that status as a child, then you certainly believe in a god that will commit fratricide, turly an ugly god.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


"But God, who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved "us" (believers) even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ, by grace you were saved' markV????

Notice markv added (believers) where scripture says no such thing. Jesus loves all mankind while still sinners and gave His life ONCE AND "FOR ALL".

Now people go to hell because they rejected Jesus Christ and HIS GIFT of Salvation THROUGH HIM ALONE.

Many try to save themselves putting their faith in themselves, and reject Jesus who alone Paid it all, all to Him I owe, sin had left a crimson stain, HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW.

Nothing YOU can do to wash away your sin. Only HIS BLOOD CAN!
---kathr4453 on 3/12/13


Mark V, I'm seriously done with WASTING TIME with you. YOU have been shown the Truth by others and myself. You refuse it, and cling to the LIES of OSAS and the FALSE interpretation of Predestion. GOOD LUCK.
---Gordon on 3/12/13


God DOESN'T WANT to be "master" (satan has ensured that we all would be taught WRONG).....actually, satan is NOT the real progenitor/origin of evil in this world, it is OUR OWN DESIRES ("the flesh"...666). The 6th day creation has replaced the three apects/dispensations of God with it's own version of "spirituality". The body of Christ has been indoctrinated by satan's perditious lies for 2,000 years (the result/"son" of perdition) and refuses to live the PERFECT law (James 1:25)...

2 Thessalonians 2:3 "man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition".

We have the genuine and everlasting cleansing....and should "no longer have any consciousness of SIN" (Hebrews 10:2).
---more_excellent_way on 3/12/13


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Gordon, Leon phrase is right,
"I truly suspect the plain & simple Bible truth has fallen on deaf ears."
When Paul in (Eph. 2) was speaking he was speaking to believers, the "us" who understood the gospel already. He told them from where God saved them from. And he says,
"But God, who is rich in mercy, "because of His great love with which He loved "us" (believers) even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ, by grace you were saved'
the great love with which He loved us, believers, He made us alive, He did not make the others alive and the love He mentioned was for those He was making alive.
Why do you still don't understand?
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


We don't blame God for our sinful choices, we made them, that those choices were going to be made was already known by God for He ordained them to be, all He did was to permit us to do them, either to bring us to salvation or to permit us to continue to hell. God knows all things. He directs the steps of all human beings, you just don't belief He does.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/13


GOD is not the author of sin. God ALLOWS it but does not make us sin. Do you realize you are saying God it the author of sin, here? This is called "double talk" swaying to and fro.
It goes against what the word of God tells us and by that proves it is false doctrine.
---g on 3/12/13


Ruben, you and others promote this new love of God as if He His nature has changed through time. You say,
True God knows all ! He directs some to heaven and some to hell,How is that a God of love?"
God's nature is Love. That is who He is. His conduct towards man is different. It all has a purpose to a certain end.
God went through the land in Egypt and killed all firstborns. Was that the love your talking about for the firstborns? When He commanded the slaughter of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites in (Deu. 20:16,17) was that love towards those killed? Man women and children who were human beings also with what many of you call 'free will' was that the love you are talking about?
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


MarkV: "Jerry, you say, and let me also remind everyone, you are a follower of the Law. One who beliefs that you earn your way into heaven by keeping the laws mainly Saturday Sabbath,"

No. Again you lie. I am a follower of Jesus Christ, who wrote with His own finger in stone "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy", and kept it while on earth as an example to us. Who do you follow?


"We don't blame God for our sinful choices, we made them"

You can't have it both ways, Markie. Either you have the free will to choose to sin or you don't. Which is it?


---jerry6593 on 3/12/13


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The Israelites free will choose to send spies into the promised land in Deut. 1:22. However in Numbers 13 it is God who said send spies. Since the Israelites did not go into the promised land at this time a bad action, we can conclude that God allowed the Israelites will of sending spies trump God's good will.
---Scott1 on 3/12/13


LEON - 3/11/13 - The reason I wrote that verse down - is not God controlling everything - and keeping some people away from sin and others not ?

PROVERBS 16:4 - THE Lord hath made all things for himself, yea even the wicked for day of evil.

ROMANS 9,16 - SO then it is not of him that willeth, nor him that runneth, but of God that sheath mercy.

ROMANS 9:17 FOR the scripture saith unto pharaoh, even for this same purpose I raised thee up,That I might shed my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth,

ROMAN 9:18 - THEREFORE hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth
---RICHARDC on 3/12/13


\\2a : ...a choice or determination of one having authority or power

4a : ...wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending

5: the power of control over one's own actions or emotions\\
---char on 3/11/13

That is the heart of the issue. Does free will mean that someone has the ability to desire without restraints? Or that someone is free to act out those desires?

The tension between God's sovereignty and man's will results from an eternal/temporal distinction that cannot be comprehended by us.

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

Gen 50:20 What [some] meant for evil, God intended for good
---James_L on 3/12/13


//God bless you
---James_L on 3/11/13//

God truly supplies all need- Good stuff indeed.

God bless,
Shalom brother.
---char on 3/11/13


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Char,
good stuff through and through

God bless you
---James_L on 3/11/13


2nd posting,//---James_L on 3/10/13// Blessings,
Merriam-Webster dictionary:WILL
1: DESIRE, WISH: as
a : DISPOSITION, INCLINATION
c : CHOICE, DETERMINATION
2a : something desired, especially : a choice or determination of one having authority or power
b (1) archaic : REQUEST, COMMAND (2) [from the phrase our will is which introduces it] : the part of a summons expressing a royal command
3: the act, process, or experience of willing : VOLITION
4a : mental powers manifested as wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending
b : a disposition to act according to principles or ends
c : the collective desire of a group
5: the power of control over one's own actions or emotions
---char on 3/11/13


//---James_L on 3/10/13// Good thought brother
continued

It is the very reason the serpent/adversary had to deceive/beguile/seduce so they would believe his word instead, and be deceived into their own ago self/desire/goal believing they had 'lack' when indeed they did not.

Adam - in turn would not have been given the ability to "hearken" unto the words of the woman instead of the Word of Elohyim if he did not hold the ability to choose otherwise.

Nor would the serpent have been able to beguile Eve (of all living).

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak which is the very reason the adversary used the tactic/twisting the Word of God by deception and seduction of the flesh. Gen2:21
Continued'
---char on 3/11/13


Continued'

//James_L on 3/10/13// ---Blessings brother,

*self-will: ra-tson (mas), Used to express determination, insistence, persistence, or willfulness. One's desire. [ Strongs: 7522]
Gen49:6
6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret, unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall

God bless you brother,

Shalom
---char on 3/11/13


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How can God be in control of all things if you supposely determine your own fate?..MarkV

God has already determined everyones fate.
Those who choose God get eternal life. Eternal life GIVEN BY GOD.

Those who do not choose God get hell and eternal torment.
ETERNAL TORMENT CREATED BY GOD.

So God has determined and created each ones fate.
We just get to choose which road/fate we take/want. The narrow one to God or the wide one to hell.
The gift of choice doesn't take power away from God. It does show us how much he loves us.
---g on 3/11/13


//-jan4378 on 3/10/13//
Right back at you, sis :)
Shalom

//---James_L on 3/10/13// Good thought brother.

If Adam was not given and had the ability to chose, then he could not and would not have had the capability to be disobedient at the word - God had appointed him.

Gen 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, (thou shalt not eat of it): for(in the day) that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

*(adam-mankind) had No Lack - therefore - the adversary deceived/seduced/beguiled them through weakness (flesh) into believing they lacked ..."Knowledge" of ([tov]function)/([ra]dysfunction)...which in fact they did not need.

Elohyim provided all needs.
Continued'
---char on 3/11/13


Mark_V.* We don't blame God for our sinful choices, we made them, that those choices were going to be made was already known by God for He ordained them to be,

Those who murder, rape , molested little ones were their choices but ordained by God, Why?


Mark_V. *all He did was to permit us to do them, either to bring us to salvation or to permit us to continue to hell.

But according to you some are already going to heaven, so why the permit?


Mark_V.* God knows all things. He directs the steps of all human beings, you just don't belief He does.

True God knows all ! He directs some to heaven and some to hell,How is that a God of love?
---Ruben on 3/11/13


"I'm afraid you're right once again, Leon! *sigh*"
---Gordon on 3/11/13


It's unfortunate! Mark might better understand "Free will" if we all sang "Wheels on the Bus". lol
---Leon on 3/11/13


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\\Mark V, All human souls existed in Heaven before the foundation of the World.\\

WRONG!

This is not Christianity but mormonism, which is a polytheistic fertility cult, mixed with outer space fantasies.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/11/13


Mark V, All human souls existed in Heaven before the foundation of the World. GOD presented each soul with the choice to either follow HIM or follow Satan in his Rebellion. Some followed GOD, some followed Satan and self and others followed GOD at first but later turned away. And, now, every soul plays out their choice on Earth as they did in Heaven. That's how YOUR type of Predestination, OSAS and Loss of Salvation can all appear to be right. GOD would not deliberately create souls just for the sake of damning them. That's not Love. Damnation was ONLY prepared for Satan and his angels initially.
---Gordon on 3/11/13


Jerry, you say, and let me also remind everyone, you are a follower of the Law. One who beliefs that you earn your way into heaven by keeping the laws mainly Saturday Sabbath,
"But the "No Free-Will Cult" have attempted (by mental gymnastics and scripture twisting) to take themselves out of the process so that they can blame God for their own sinful choices."
We don't blame God for our sinful choices, we made them, that those choices were going to be made was already known by God for He ordained them to be, all He did was to permit us to do them, either to bring us to salvation or to permit us to continue to hell. God knows all things. He directs the steps of all human beings, you just don't belief He does.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/13


I'm afraid you're right once again, Leon! *sigh*
---Gordon on 3/11/13


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Mark V, Choosing CHRIST while lost WOULD please GOD. Choosing Salvation is only the first step in Salvation. For, if one chooses Salvation, but later turns away, as in HEBREWS 10:27-29, then that would NOT be pleasing to GOD. Why do you dsny Salvation for those who are lost, Mark V?? And, don't pass that on to GOD by saying HE's the ONE responsible, 'cause HE isn't. HE's the ONE offering Hope to the lost. Not YOUR brand of doctrine.
---Gordon on 3/11/13


"2 PETER 2:9 - THE Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished."
---RICHARDC on 3/11/13


Please explain, in context to Scripture teaching, what 2 Peter 2:9 means. How does it relate (tie in) to this blogs question(s)? Thx!
---Leon on 3/11/13


2 PETER 2:9 - THE Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.
---RICHARDC on 3/11/13


"I don't see how anyone can make the facts any plainer than you just did Gordon, but brace yourself. I truly suspect the plain & simple Bible truth has fallen on deaf ears concerning Mark."
---Leon on 3/10/13


:D Incredible!!!
---Leon on 3/11/13


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Mark V, We are not ROBOTS, Mark V. You don't need a Bible Verse to substantiate that fact. When you love another person, you do not force them to love you back. You can only do YOUR best to just love them and hope and pray that they shall do the same in return. If you had to force someone to love you in return, it would not be real love. Do you not agree that that is so?? This is how GOD is. HE IS LOVE. HE is the Author of our ability to love. Love is freely given, and it can only be freely accepted and returned. It's all about having a free-will in order to have this happen. Salvation comes out of GOD's Love and can only be offered freely and then received freely, likewise. Never forced.
---Gordon on 3/11/13


Gordon, you deny you don't want freedom from God. You say,
"Having free-will does not mean that GOD is not in control."
How can God be in control of all things if you supposely determine your own fate? God controls the fate of each one of us. You say its a lie. You and others suggest, He controls everything else except your fate. you control that because as you say, He gave you free will, with no passage to that effect. Here is the Truth
"For the carnal mind is at emnity against God"
and also says,
"So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God"
If you had the ability to choose Christ while lost, you would be able to please Him. But you cannot.
---Mark_V. on 3/11/13


Free will is simply freedom to choose according to one's own conscience, as was the case with Joshua:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE you this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

But the "No Free-Will Cult" have attempted (by mental gymnastics and scripture twisting) to take themselves out of the process so that they can blame God for their own sinful choices.


---jerry6593 on 3/11/13


Gordon 2: I can understand unbelievers demanding their rights against God. But not believers. Scripure tells us the flesh profits nothing, the flesh cannot please God, the carnal mind is at emnity against God, that the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God. And you claim they can come to Christ out of their own free will. That they can please God. That the natural man does know spiritual things without the Spirit of God, that the flesh does profits salvation, that the carnal man is not at emnity against God. Now who do you think is right? You are the Bible? don't you see that God has to regenerate you heart before you can love God? We love Him because He first loved us. As Christians why don't you understand?
---Mark_V. on 3/11/13


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I don't see how anyone can make the facts any plainer than you just did, but brace yourself. I truly suspect the plain & simple Bible truth has fallen on deaf ears concerning Mark.
---Leon on 3/10/13


Mark V, Having free-will does not mean that GOD is not in control. HE offers each person the choice between Salvation and Damnation. If one chooses Salvation they must then follow GOD daily and be under GOD's Direction. If they reject Salvation, they shall be subject to Eternal Damnation under GOD's Eternal Wrath. So, I don't get your understanding how free-will somehow "denies" GOD's Sovereignty. It DOESN'T.
---Gordon on 3/10/13


//Rod4him, ultimately I am doing the will of God when I sin.//

Now you lost me...I am speechless. Say what??
---Rod4Him on 3/10/13


spiritual understanding reveals Gods magnificent glorious and merciful plan of salvation for all

Romans 5:18
"... even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

people who get so angry when told God offers a free gift to all reject Romans 5:18 (and many other verses) claiming no free will to choose the free gift offered to all by God. Their illogical reasoning clearly exceeds logic let alone the staggering fact they teach an idea directly opposite the very Words of God.

Believe Gods Word in Romans 5:18 or believe men who tell you Gods free gift is offered then you must ADD THEIR LIE you are programmed to take that free gift or not take it
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/10/13


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---Mark_V. on 3/10/13

Let's just discuss scripture if you don't mind.
---jan4378 on 3/10/13


"...here is the real truth people [don't] want to hear...they want freedom from God. They [don't] want God to determine their lives...they get angry when told it was God who chose them...God from the beginning chose Adam...then chose the nation of Israel...what good was those people's free will?...they demand their free will from God...Leon wants me to stop speaking on behalf of Almighty God..."
---Mark_V. on 3/10/13


Very delusional statements Mark! It's truly sad you insistently & freely choose to perpetrate a legalistic fraud as if it were God's truth.

You don't speak for God!!! He chooses to speak thru believers "who's hearts are right". God "made", He didn't choose Adam! :)
---Leon on 3/10/13


"Steven G, since you can see sin very well, did you not sin when you called me worldly? You judged my heart and you are not even God who is the only One who can see the heart of people."
Mark_V. on 3/23/11 in the "Know When Christ Returns" blog

But here the story is: "Jan, I answer you because you have a good heart."
Mark_V. on 3/10/13

What self serving interest your'e after Lisa? You told Steven that he is not God to see a person's heart. How is it that you see a heart and judge it is good?
---Nana on 3/10/13


Paul says, "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" (Romans 9:21)

So, God has the power and not only the choice! And a potter is hands-on with the clay, so close and personal with each piece of clay, to make sure each one does it job.

There are sewer buckets of hate, bitterness, stress, frustration, arguing and complaining, unforgiveness. This is not a good job, but so needed, to carry Satan's filth to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone.

I came "from the same lump" as sewer buckets and vessels for honor. So, who am I to boast over anyone?
---willie_c: on 3/10/13


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Jan, I answer you because you have a good heart. The concept of free will, is really freedom from God. That is what these people are doing. They don't want God to dictate their lives. These are supposely Christians. What kind of Christains depend on themselves? None that I know of. They want to control their own lives by making their own choices without God interfering. They want their rights. These concept is so false, that it treathrens their own souls. It just pains those who hear us speak of God's rights. Leon wants me to stop. Kathr threathens me over an over, to the point of speaking against my family and me. RCC and orthodox like Nana, get angry at me for speaking on behalf of God rights.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/13


---Mark_V. on 3/10/13
Jan, thanks for posting what you did.

You're welcome. I do enjoy participating.

//---jan4378 on 3/8/13//
Thank you for posting this :)

God Chose Israel: As His Witness that (He Exist God-I AM)(Is 43)


Please laugh with me, for a moment my brain was not working right, I read it "is 43" and had the thought "who is 43?"

P.S. Your posts Char are as always informative, interesting nuggets of God's word.
---jan4378 on 3/10/13


When the words "Free Will" are used together, it might be best to clarify what it means to each person.

Does "free" mean free from ALL restraints?

Does free will include only what one decides to DO, or does it include what one decides to believe also?

Does free will refer to our ability to conjur up plans, or our ability to accomplish those plans?


What about a botched suicide? Was the man's will free, if he chose to end his life, but wasn't able?
---James_L on 3/10/13


Chris: Your constant barking in the night is very annoying. Put a muzzle on it!
---Leon on 3/10/13


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Jan, I answer you because you have a good heart. The concept of free will, is really freedom from God. That is what these people are doing. They don't want God to determine their lives. These are supposely Christians. What kind of Christains depend on themselves? None that I know of. They want to control their own lives by making their own choices without God interfering. They want their rights. These concept is so false, that it treathrens their own souls. It just pains those who hear us speak of God's rights. Leon wants me to stop. Kathr threathens me over an over, to the point of speaking against my family and me. RCC and orthodox like Nana, get angry at me for speaking on behalf of God rights.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/13


Jan, thanks for posting what you did. Let me say that when the will chooses, it always has a reason for choosing, it is not free from reason. If a person makes a choice for no reason, it is a spontaneous choice and God cannot judge it good or bad.
In 1 Peter 1:22 the people purified their souls, why? because they were doing the will of God. They had a reason for their choices. If they were free from God, and purified themselves, it would still have a reason for their choice to purify themselves. (v. 23) gives the reason for those people to do what they did. They were born again through the word of God which lives and abides forever in them. God was motivating them they were not free.
---Mark_V. on 3/10/13


"Your legalistic speech is very imbalanced (cognitively impaired)" Leon

Do you even know what's the meaning of "legalistic"? How's one who believe in election by grace even "legalistic"?

You don't even realise that you're in serious bondage to Satan and that God needs to set you free from that bondage that you may worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Learn from the Israelites who were in bondage to Egypt for four hundred and thirty years! Who brought them out of Egypt? Their "free-will"? Ya, right! You have much to learn and understand about what true salvation is instead of rambling on nothing but your "free-will" that's in bondage to non other than Satan.
---christan on 3/9/13


FOC, you will notice that by the time Deuteronomy 30:19 and Proverbs 1:29 and all other Scriptures that were written and given, the fall of man was already in the state of "dead in sins and trespass"?

And that Scripture also declared, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Which simply means, God's not "testing" any mankind like He "tested" Adam and Eve - who failed with flying colours.

If Adam and Eve, who were created "sinless" failed, what gives you the inclination that you who's born "dead in sin and trespass" can even "obey" God's commands?
---christan on 3/9/13


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"...It really bothers you to hear God chose you, that you [didn't] chose Him doesn't it?[?!]...You want the credit that only belongs to God.[?] Why not just thank yourself for [being] so smart above others who reject God.[?] [It's] only my duty before God to SPEAK FOR GOD[?!!!], [it's my motivation & love for God that I do what I do, I [can't] stop what I do, because [I'm] not free, [I'm] in bondage to the Lord for the rest of my life, & I love that."[?]
---Mark_V. on 3/9/13


Your legalistic speech is very imbalanced (cognitively impaired) & even hokey Mark! Did you of your own volition (free will) choose to be in submission/bondage to the Lord or did He force you?
---Leon on 3/9/13


Mark V: We must of course use all terms that mean the same thing, as we must use all the terms that mean the same thing as predestination (similar phrases appear in the gospels, but not the same, but you get the idea Jesus means that).
---Peter on 3/9/13


If will is not "free" it is not will. Will began with God allowing personal choice for Adam and Eve, and they chose freely to disobey God who had given them this gift. Whatever the circumstance, even if chained, we choose (will) our reaction. Will is only blocked by the presence of sleep or brain disfunction.
---Geraldine on 3/9/13


the act of having a choices requires a decision to one who has been given options however those who reject God get so angry when told God offers free will to mankind in Holy Scripture

Deuteronomy 30:19
"... that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


Proverbs 1:29
For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

some will choose to follow the Lords examples others will not, and there is a straight gate and a narrow gate, all through scripture God offers mankind a choice.

hence Israels punishments were because (holding breath for the astounding answer!!) they didn't make the RIGHT choice
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/9/13


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///---jan4378 on 3/8/13//
Thank you for posting this :)

God Chose Israel: As His Witness that (He Exist God-I AM)(Is 43)

Free-Offering: [ne-da-vah] A voluntary or spontaneous gift as an offering out of respect or devotion. Strongs: 5071Num15:3,29:39,Ezr1:7,Ezr3:5
Ex 35:29
The children of Israel brought a (willing offering) unto the LORD, every man and woman, (whose heart made them willing) to bring for all manner of work, which the LORD had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.

Ex 36:3
And they received of Moses all the offering, which the children of Israel had brought for the work of the service of the sanctuary, to make it withal. And they brought yet unto him free offerings every morning.
---char on 3/9/13


Leon, you say,

"When will Mark "choose to" stop his "anti-Free will" filibustering?"

It really bothers you to hear God chose you, that you did not chose Him doesn't it? It's hard to leave the emnity you have with God. Yet you know in your heart it was God who saved you. That is what is even worse, because you refuse to belief it. You want the credit that only belongs to God. Why not just thank yourself for been so smart above others who reject God.
It is not only my duty before God to speak for God, it is my motivation and love for God that I do what I do, I cannot stop what I do, because I am not free, I am in bondage to the Lord for the rest of my life, and I love that.
---Mark_V. on 3/9/13


Is the statment, "Free will" anywhere in the Bible?
---Mark_V. on 3/8/13
Leviticus 22:18 and for all his freewill offerings,

Leviticus 22:21 a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted,

Numbers 29:39 These [things] ye shall do unto the LORD in your set feasts, beside your vows, and your freewill offerings,
---francis on 3/9/13


I have found that Moses said, "choose life", to the people of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:19). Plus, it says God wanted offerings for building the objects of service to be given by "Whoever is of a willing heart" (Exodus 35:5). I can see that a "willing heart" has a free will, which therefore freely does what God wants.

But I can also see that people in "the power of Satan" (Acts 26:18) are not free. It says we were "slaves of sin", in Romans 6:17 & 20 >

"while you were slaves of sin, your were free in regard to righteousness." (in Romans 6:20)

So, in what way is each person "free" . . . free from God, or free from sin?
---willie_c: on 3/9/13


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Psalm 54:6, I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O LORD, for it is good.

The Hebrew word is concerning a free-will offering given voluntarily. The new testament in Greek reflects it.. Phm 1:14, "of your own free will" 1Pet 1:22 "not under compulsion but voluntarily"

God requires that man have free will to choose to obey or to choose to disobey.

"Choose you this day whom you will serve."
"As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15
---jan4378 on 3/8/13


MARK V, You framed your Question with a play on words. The word "free-will" is not in the Bible. And, that's your loophole from which you arduantly defend the false doctrines of OSAS and the misinterpretation of "Predestination". The word "Rapture" is not in the Bible either, Mark V, yet, there WILL be a Rapture. We know this by how particular Verses in the Bible read! Are you living in unrepentant sin, Mark V? Is this why you so desperately cling to the false security blanket of "predestinated, OSAS salvation"?? You've called yourself a Sinner before, as opposed to a Saint. True Believers are Saints. -apart unto GOD. I am NOT a Sinner, but a Saint. I have been made NEW in Christ YAHUSHUA (JESUS).
---Gordon on 3/8/13


When will Mark "choose to" stop his "anti-Free will" filibustering? Does anyone know?! Yawn! His circular arguments are like singing Wheels on the Bus! :/
---Leon on 3/8/13


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