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Earn Your Way To Heaven

Is the Christian justified (declared righteous) based solely on the imputed righteousness of Christ, or does one also need to become obedient and acquire a sufficient righteousness to merit eternal life- something called imparted or infused righteousness.

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 ---e.lee7537 on 3/10/13
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'Jesus warned me you would say that already'- Cluny

Then you'd better start listening to Jesus.
---David8318 on 3/19/13


Cluny, Satan has fooled you completely!

I don't think Jesus would preside over a FALSE-Unorthodox cult whose intentions are to rip people off financially with lying, false threats of being burned for eternity in hellfire and damnation.

Glory to Jesus Christ who is 'God's son'- Lu.1:35 (not God incarnate) and who died and was 'made alive in the spirit'- 1Pe.3:18, ASV (whose flesh 'did not see corruption'- Acts 2:31) and ascended 'in the spirit' to heaven (1Pe.3:18, Acts 1:9).
---David8318 on 3/18/13


e.lee7537- not that I'm overly concerned what you think of my comments, but I notice you ignore Cluny's intolerance of JW's and my comments. You are hardly promoting an objective, unbiased opinion.

Had you been more "learned", you would find it intolerable that the Orthodox church Cluny belongs has no purpose other than to fleece its flock financially. The Greek Orthodox church has fleeced its flock of Billions of dollars over the years, amassing wealth more than the GDP of Greece and does nothing in return while the local Greek populace struggle to make ends meet and the Greek government teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

The FALSE-odox churches Cluny supports has done nothing for mankind other than to rip people off.
---David8318 on 3/18/13


Jesus warned me you would say that already, David.

Glory to Jesus Christ, who is God Incarnate (not the Archangel Michael) and truly died and rose from the dead in His human body (which did not dissolve into gases) and ascended into heaven.
---Cluny on 3/17/13


David318//Cluny the god talking to you is Satan.
---
Comments like that are really not very "white" of you. While we may disagree on some minor issues as this particular blog, we should not credit any different opinion with that of Satan.

Perhaps your problem is really one of intolerance of others - some being from those more learned than you are.
---e.lee7537 on 3/17/13




1Cliff, you should have a better answer then the one you gave,
"At first they included the "apocrypha" then it was discarded.".
When the canon closed, that is all there was that God wanted in His Word. If God had wanted other books in as inspired, He would have inspired them. When Jesus was on earth He did many other things that we are not told. If every detail of all events were given, the book would be so big my house could not store it. But, what is in there is Truth, you just refuse to believe it. Just like David and Scott, and many more here on line.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/13


Cluny the god talking to you is Satan.
---David8318 on 3/17/13


Adventists rely on works of the law - obedience to commandments, However in that they strive to bring others under the same curse they are under.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.

The believer is saved eternally by faith in Christ, not by obedience to laws, especially that ministry of death & condemnation that the 10 commandments represent.

Hebrews 7:25 Consequently, he (Jesus) is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
---e.lee7537 on 3/17/13


"law that God wrote on two tables of stone, he now writes in our hearts"
---francis on 3/17/13

But note 2Cor 3:7-11
"if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious,... which glory was to be DONE AWAY:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory....
For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious".

Francis you follow the ministry of condemnation/death which was DONE AWAY.

Instead we see that Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4
---Haz27 on 3/17/13


\\JW's spread the Kingdom good news using every available method.
\\

Except they are FALSE witnesses, and therefore they are not spreading God's message.

God told me to tell you that.

He also warned me that you would reject His word to you, as you are deluded by the Watchtower organization, which is a snare and a racket and has never done anything for mankind.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/13




Marc is a sit at home apostate "christian". An indoor guy wollowing in his own judgmental self righteous world.

JW's spread the Kingdom good news using every available method.

Currently, JW's are conducting a worldwide effort to invite everyone they meet to Memorialize Jesus' death on the night of the passover celebration- this year it falls on Tuesday, March 26 (Lu.22:19).

'As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead'- Js.2:26 (NIV).

'For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God'- Eph.2:8 (NIV).

Thus JW's agree with Paul- 'With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak'- 2Cor.4:13 (NIV).
---David8318 on 3/17/13


Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

God did not write in our hearts what he did not command or speak about

How do we know for 100% sure that it is the ten commandments that God writes in our hearts

Jeremiah 31:33 saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts,


God says i will write MY LAWS ( the laws which he spoke and wrote n stones) in their hearts

Here is the NT comparism:

2 Corinthians 3:3 not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

what was once n the stone, is not in our hearts
---francis on 3/17/13


The same law that God wrote on two tables of stone, he now writes in our hearts
Who else


Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.)

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jn_2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you:
because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 1Jn_2:9!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/17/13


Mark V, **put together by man who receive what was truth already**
At first they included the "apocrypha" then it was discarded.
Did the "Spirit" guide them the first time or the second time???
Tell me how you know!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/13


---e.lee7537 on 3/16/13
Do you believe that it was God who wrote the ten commandments on two tables of stone?

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses,..two tables of testimony, tables of stone, WRITTEN WITH THE FINGER OF GOD.

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the LORD SPAKE UNTO YOU out of the midst of the fire: ye HEARD THE VOICE of the words, And he declared unto you his ... ten commandments, and HE WROTE them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 5:22 These words the LORD SPAKE... with a great voice: and HE ADDED NO MORE And HE WROTE them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

the same law that God wrote on two tables of stone, he now writes in our hearts
---francis on 3/17/13


Follower_of_Christ you are absolutely right!
Tit_1:16 They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Especially when they talk about the ten laws!
Only in their minds do they keep them.
Rom_4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, (faith is made void,) and the promise made of none effect:

Because only:
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour:
therefore love is the (fulfilling of the law!)

Back up by Christ who said:
On these two commandments hang (all the law) and the prophets!

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye?
(for sinners also love those that love them.)
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/17/13


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1Cliff, you now say,
"Mark v: Do you throw out the entire newspaper if you don't like what's written on the sports page???"
I only read the sports and throw out the rest of the newspaper.
Then say: "You don't seem to use any common sense, you act like a pre-programmed robot!
The bible is not "a' book, but 66 books bound together,surely you're aware of that!
It was put together by men like you and I who reasoned out which to include and which to leave out!"
I use spiritual wisdom. The bible is one book containing 66 books. Put together by man, who receive what was truth already. They did not create the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/13


The Apostle Paul states that our works have nothing to do with our eternal salvation:

Tit3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,
Tit3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour,
Tit3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Our salvation is by the grace of God in conjunction with the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Here is our righteousnesses:
Isa 64:6
---trey on 3/16/13


"THIS is the crux of the whole discussion..No way to prove Christ said this... Give me one good reason someone should put faith in this kind of information?" 1stCliff

Spoken like an unbeliever. Does God need to give the sinner a reason why He saved him but only to tell him the He loved him unconditionally?

In perspective, if you cannot believe Luke 16:19-31 as the spoken words of Christ and you demand prove that He was the one who spoke them, I feel sorry for you. All your claims that you're a Christian - it's nothing but a false confession of "faith" - based on your words.

For my Savior spoke these words of comfort, "...blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed".
---christan on 3/16/13


Ask a JW if he were to stop knocking on people's door tomorrow if he is saved. Of course, a JW has no guarantee that he is saved even if he were to knock on doors every minute of each day, but it is interesting to eventually see a JW is knocking IN ORDER to [maybe] receive eternal life. In other words, he's working for his salvation.
---Marc on 3/16/13


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"It is Christ dwelling in our hearts strengthening us to be obedient (SANCTIFICATION)
---francis on 3/11/13

Francis, that is NOT sanctification.

Note Heb 10:10 on how Christians have been sanctified.
"By that will we HAVE BEEN sanctified THROUGH the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all"

In Christ righteousness is imputed to us and we HAVE BEEN sanctified THROUGH his offering.

BUT the false doctrine you follow rejects what Christ did for us on the cross. You profess to know God but by your works of the law/unbelief (thus rejecting imputed righteousness and sanctification) you deny Him, Tit 1:16
---Haz27 on 3/16/13


FoC //Only those who Gods laws written on their hearts are obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ and through Him we can obey his 10 perfect, just, and holy laws.

The ASSUMPTION that you are making is that it was the 10 commandments (especially the Sabbath commandment) that were written onto the hearts of believers.

There is virtually NOTHING in the Bible that tells us which of the 600+ OT laws or commands given by God were written onto believers hearts.

If we view church history we CANNOT FIND anything that supports your view in the writings of the early church many of whose leaders were direct successors of the Apostles. Are you saying they were WRONG?

Why do you find that so hard to accept?
---e.lee7537 on 3/16/13


"infused" righteousness is a philosophical term by men without God, these men are against God and are hostile to Gods laws and are not subject to Gods laws Romans 8:7

Only those who have Gods laws written on their hearts are obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ and through Him we can obey his 10 perfect, just, and holy laws. It is difficult for those without spiritual understanding to define sin through intellectual means because sin (which is breaking Gods 10 laws) is a spiritual truth unknown to those without His laws written on their hearts. This is why religionists cannot comprehend Romans 4:22. Many appropriate the Word of God in vain teaching against the Lord Jesus.
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/16/13


imparted righteousness is not found in Holy Scripture and infused righteousness is a philosophical term used by the intellectual religionist those who reason away Word of God because there is no truth in them. They do not have the laws of God written on their hearts. By reasoning away the perfect, just, holy 10 laws of God they are marked as being against God. They are hostile to Gods 10 laws because they are not subject to his laws Romans 8:7.

These wicked men appropriate the Word of God and profess they know Him, however Holy Scripture states they do not know Him.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/16/13


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You want discussions with those who do not believe as you do. You have no way of knowing if you are saved or not because you do not know what is Truth and what is not Truth in Scripture. A believer cannot tell the difference between you and Athiest. Both of you ask the same questions, and respond the same way.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/13

Keep on keeping on Cliff. When you rebuke and challenge it sharpens the knives of seeker searchers and inflames the opposite of. A seeker sees light and goes to it. Those in the dark curse the light.
Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
---Trav on 3/16/13


Mark v: Do you throw out the entire newspaper if you don't like what's written on the sports page???
You don't seem to use any common sense, you act like a pre-programmed robot!
The bible is not "a' book, but 66 books bound together,surely you're aware of that!
It was put together by men like you and I who reasoned out which to include and which to leave out!
If God had put it together there would not have been years of wrangling and dispute!
---1st_cliff on 3/16/13


1Cliff, as I said before, you are really in unbelief. You might as well throw your Bible out the door, for how do you know anyone wrote anything in it. That is why you question everything in the Word of God. But you instead keep it, to question others by reading the Word of God.
You want discussions with those who do not believe as you do. You have no way of knowing if you are saved or not because you do not know what is Truth and what is not Truth in Scripture. A believer cannot tell the difference between you and Athiest. Both of you ask the same questions, and respond the same way.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/13


Christian, **wasn't it Christ who spoke in Luke 16...**
THIS is the crux of the whole discussion..No way to prove Christ said this, no one backs up his story, Luke never met Jesus, 2nd hand information from WHO???
Give me one good reason someone should put faith in this kind of information?
Even your beloved Paul said "Test everything.."1Thes.5.21.
Are you suggesting that we ignore that advice???
---1st_cliff on 3/15/13


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1stCliff, wasn't it Christ who spoke in Luke 16:19-21? Isn't He God? O yeah, I forgot - you don't believe He's God.

Here's prove of your unbelief fresh from your oven: "The story Luke wrote is second hand information at best. Since he never met Christ, where did this story come from? There's no way to authenticate this story since no other writer even hinted at such a cercumstance! You are "assuming" also the Abraham's bosom is heaven!" These words are from your heart!

It was Christ who said, "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried. You simply CANNOT belief and you proved it from what you said.
---christan on 3/15/13


Christian, How come you go off the deep end on everything when there's nothing in my post that supposes Jesus was lieing!
The story Luke wrote is second hand information at best. Since he never met Christ, where did this story come from?
There's no way to authenticate this story since no other writer even hinted at such a cercumstance!You are "assuming" also the Abraham's bosom is heaven!
Actually it's not!
---1st_cliff on 3/15/13


---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13
Can anyone tell me what dietary law prevents a jew from eating a meal with a gentile?

Galatians 2:14 I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Two things here
1: paul is " judging" Peter which is what we shoudl do for each other correct each others faults

2: If Peter is teaching gentiles to live as jews, there is no change that the Gentiles are eating anything unclean,

3: Paul " judges" peter not for teaching Gentiles tolive as jews, it is right to teach all men to live as God commanded, but rather Paul Judged him for prejudice
---francis on 3/15/13


---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13
Galatians 2:12 For before that certain came from James, HE DID EAT WITH THE GENTILES: but when they were come, HE WITHDREW and SEPERATED HIMSELF, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

This is not going back under the law, Peter never asked them to follow the earthly sanctuary laws. never asked them to be circumcised

And this is the other JUDGING that occured by the same Paul 1 Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, HAVE JUDGED ALREADY




---francis on 3/15/13


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1stCliff, your unbelief of Scriptures is precisely God's purpose for you. The account of the rich man and Lazarus was told by Christ and yet you say, "Rich man and Lazarus is a story with no authentication!" So, you're calling Christ a story teller and a liar? Good for you.

As for for God's love toward Jacob and His hate toward Esau, "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth", it was UNCONDITIONAL!

"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?"
---christan on 3/15/13


Christian,Since you believe there's a parallel between The rich man and Lazarus and Jacob and Esau, Give your interpretation of why God loved Jacob and hated Esau, loved Lazarus and hated the Rich Man!
Jacob and Esau was a real life happening.
Rich man and Lazarus is a story with no authentication!
---1st_cliff on 3/15/13


Luke who never met Jesus is the only one who wrote about this ,No one to back up this story (parable or otherwise)
---1st_cliff on 3/14/13

You are forgetting that when Luke wrote his gospel there were people still alive who had heard Jesus speak these words and would have fiercely denied the validity and correctness of Luke's gospel, if what you are saying is true.

You must also remember that even though Luke did not see Jesus, his gospel was written from interviews conducted from people who were with Jesus and heard what Jesus said. Actual eyewitnesses.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/15/13


Luke who never met Jesus is the only one who wrote about this ,No one to back up this story (parable or otherwise)
Satan is the master of pulling the wool over eyes!
Jesus warned of this!
1st_cliff on 3/14/13

Did he just call Luke, Satan?


Luk_1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


Act_9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/15/13


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"The Rich man did absolutely nothing to merritt punishment... Lazarus did absolutely nothing to merit heaven... What's your point." 1stCliff

Simple, that salvation is by the grace of God 100%! "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth", though Paul was referring to Jacob and Esau (see the similarity between the rich man and Lazurs?), it's all about election and rejection... by God.

So the lives of Jacob and Esau is a parable?

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." Mathew 5:37
---christan on 3/15/13


"fact is, do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth"
---francis on 3/14/13

And we do judge those within the church should they be in unbelief bringing in doctrines of works of he law. This is what 1Cor 5:12 you quoted above speaks of. We are not to fellowship with those in spiritual fornication with Hagar/the law, Gal 4:24.

And that example you gave of Gal 2:11 was Paul confronting Peter about beginning to slip back under the law, as e.lee7537 said. Peter did not walk uprightly according to the gospel.
So yes, we do rebuke those within the church who start slipping back into the law.
---Haz27 on 3/15/13


Gordon, I said before, you could start your own religion with your interpretations of passages. you say,
"Predestination and ACTS 13:48. It's speaking of the Gentiles who had just heard the Gospel of Salvation, it says "...and, as many as were ORDAINED to Eternal Life believed." That word "ordained" is a present-tense adjective."
The word "ordained" is not present. It happened already. The word is "Tasso" and means to place before, to set before, appointed, to place under, to preordain. And I could go on.
You refuse the Election of God so bad, you will do anything to try to change it. But it will never change. Truth is alway Truth.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/13


Francis //EXAMPLE: Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
---
(2:12) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

You have really no good understanding of the teachings of the Bible, especially Galatians

When Paul confronted Peter at Antioch it was because he went back under the Old Covenant law regarding the Levitical dietary laws. Circumcision being the entry rite into Judaism.
---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13


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---e.lee7537 If sabbath is SDA only standard, why do you take issue with our dietary teaching?

fact is, do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth

If you claim to be any sort of christian, other believers must hold you up to the standard, and call to your attention your faults, not to be critical, but to get you on the right path again

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

EXAMPLE: Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Now see Isaiah 56
---francis on 3/14/13


Francis, you quote 1 John 2:3 "hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar"

And what's his commandments?
1John 3:23
1: BELIEVE in Jesus
2: Love one another.

And WHO in 1John2:3 is a liar?
1John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"

So we see it's those who see righteousness by works the law who are the liars. They're in unbelief. They DISOBEY his commandments (1John 3:23) to BELIEVE in Jesus.

Tit 1:16 "They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him"
They're liars/non-believers, denying Jesus is the Christ, through their works of law.
---Haz27 on 3/14/13


Just a Tit 1:16 says, "They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him"
---Haz27 on 3/14/13
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


"But by the grace of God I am what I am:
---christan on 3/14/13
open you eyes
every NT writer except Jude says that we must keep the commandments of God.

Paul more so than any other
Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but( WHAT IS IMPORTANT) is the keeping of the commandments of God.
---francis on 3/14/13


//you're(Francis) nothing but a works monger.

I believe Francis would agree that those that are true Christians, really born of God's Spirit, would demonstrate that is true by the observance of the 10 commandments, especially the Sabbath commandment.

They quote the scripture that one should know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:20) but they use observance of the Sababth commandment as a means of determining the fruit wrought by the believer.

they really have no rights to judge others - something scripture forbids.

Romans 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
---e.lee7537 on 3/14/13


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Predestination and ACTS 13:48. It's speaking of the Gentiles who had just heard the Gospel of Salvation, it says "...and, as many as were ORDAINED to Eternal Life believed." That word "ordained" is a present-tense adjective. Meaning that those saved Gentiles were "ordained" from that very moment in which they received Salvation. The word is "ordained", NOT "foreordained" or "preordained". The erroneous belief of "GOD creating some to be Saved and some to be Damned" would require the Scripture to use the word "fore-ordained" or "pre-ordained". "Ordained" means once they received Salvation, they were "ordained" unto Life Eternal".
---Gordon on 3/14/13


Christian, The Rich man did absolutely nothing to merritt punishment (unless you believe that having wealth is sin)
Lazarus did absolutely nothing to merit heaven,(no mention of him being Christian)
What's your point?
Luke who never met Jesus is the only one who wrote about this ,No one to back up this story (parable or otherwise)
Satan is the master of pulling the wool over eyes!
Jesus warned of this!
---1st_cliff on 3/14/13


Francis, your correct. For man there is ONLY ONE WAY for righteousness. That is righteousness by FAITH.

But you contradict this.
Note these quotes of yours below.

Topic:Confessing Christians go to Heaven.
"Can a person go to Heaven no matter how they act, post-profession of Christ? NO NO NO" --francis on 10/6/11

Topic:Is salvation a gift.
"Righteousness is defined by the standard of God's holy law, as expressed in the ten precepts given on Sinai" E G white ---francis on 10/19/11

Just a Tit 1:16 says, "They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him"
---Haz27 on 3/14/13


francis, you can quote all the verses from Genesis to Revelation but truth be told, you have already over exposed your heart to everyone here (and not that the Lord doesn't know) that you're nothing but a works monger. In short, one who believes in salvation by works. Or as Christ will say on Judgement Day, "...ye that work iniquity."

You quote all the verses in vain and that's because you cannot bring yourself to say what Paul wrote, "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain, but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."
---christan on 3/14/13


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1 John 3:7...he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
---francis on 3/12/13

So HOW do we DO righteousness?
--Haz27 on 3/13/13

ONLY ONE WAY:

Romans 8:10 if Christ be in you,

Galatians 2:20 Christ liveth in me:

2 Peter 1:4 be partakers of the divine nature

Ephesians 3:16 be strengthened with might by CHRIST'S Spirit in the inner man,

Ephesians 3:17 Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


2 Corinthians 13:5 Jesus Christ is in you,


Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
---francis on 3/13/13


"You're using a parable to prove reality?" 1stCliff

Your darkness precedes you. First and foremost, Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable but you assume it is. Show us where it says, "this is a parable about Lazarus and the rich man".

Do you even know what's the meaning of parable? It's most definitely not fictitious if that's what you're implying. That's because there's nothing fictitious about the Word of God whatsoever.

Your hate for the Truth comes forth like the stench of death in a rotting dead body. There's so much hate you have for Jesus that you contradict and add on to what is already written as Truth.
---chrstan on 3/14/13


francis, good try bringing in the 1888 works of the Seventh Day Adventist. Righteous is not by faith. Justification is by faith, Righteousness is by imputation. You are putting down all the words of E.G. White, in her conference. Moving words around to fit your own religion. It might work to those who are not born of the Spirit who can discern what your denomination teaches. And we can see what they do with the Word of God. Sounds very religious because they have words from Scripture like justification, faith, righteousness. Just more propaganda from the SDA's.
---Mark_V. on 3/14/13


We are justified by Christ.

Christ IN us is what/WHO causes us to do right and obey God.

If we did not have Christ in us, we could not obey God or even know his will for each of us.

We all need Christ to clean us up and cause us to do right for God.
Without him we are nothing.
---g on 3/13/13


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Righteousness by faith is the imputing and imparting of the results of His sinless life. It includes both justification and sanctification. He imputes, or credits, to us the merits of His sinless experience to deliver us from the penalty of sin. This is justification. To deliver us from the power of sin, He does not merely reckon us as righteous, but He actually imparts the strength to overcome sin.

Sanctification is not a mere crediting or accounting. It is the imparting of something to us. Just as He imputes justification to deliver us from the guilt of sin, He now imparts sanctification to deliver us from the power of sin. He is able and willing to live out in us the same overcoming life that He lived as a man on this earth.
---francis on 3/13/13


Christian, You're using a parable to prove reality?
Scripture says (Jesus'own words) no one preceded Him to heaven,is good enough for me!
As for Enoch the bible said the Lord "took" him.(doesn't say to Paradise). Often we read about someone "taking" their "own" life. So God "took" him! Get it? (same for Elijah! They will be resurrected as Jesus stated Jn.5.29.
---1st_cliff on 3/13/13


Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:

2 Peter 1:4 ye might be partakers of the divine nature

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,

Exodus 31:18 two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God

Luke 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils,

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God,
---francis on 3/13/13


" 1 John 3:7...he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"
---francis on 3/12/13

So HOW do we DO righteousness?
It's EITHER ONE of the following

1:KEEPING the law of righteousness (aka, Law of sin and death). This means PERFECT obedience, James 2:10
OR
2: Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. Our works of believing in Jesus, John 6:29, results in our faith being counted for righteousness.

Contrary to the false doctrines of the likes of Francis, you CANNOT mix grace with obedience/works of the law, Rom 11:6

Those promoting "imparted" righteousness, lack understanding and even FAIL to KEEP the 10C. PARTIAL obedience is NOT KEEPING the 10C.
---Haz27 on 3/13/13


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francis //Romans 7:18 For I know that in me that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing:.

I believe you will find that those who strive to observe any day as holy are really committing deeds of the flesh.
---e.lee7537 on 3/13/13


1stCliff, from the many times we have engaged each other, it's very clear and apparent that you have the spirit of the Sadducee.

Your understanding of John 5:29 is erroneous to say the least. If you are saying no one is in Paradise and everyone who has died is in their grave, how then do you account for the lives of Enoch and Elijah? Or better still, in Luke 16:19-31 when Jesus explicitly told us of where Lazarus went to after his death and was even greeted by Abraham, who died almost two thousand years before.

John 5:29 was just a figure of speech that Christ indeed is the resurrection of life and not that everyone is lying in the grave waiting to be called and Luke 16 will attest to that.
---christan on 3/13/13


bro. Elee, the unbeliever that is doing all those thing you mentioned are self-righteous deeds, Christ is not glorified by them, they are not righteous deeds but unrighteous deeds. The more they do the more sins they accumilate. For anything without faith is sin. For the wrath of God is to those without Christ.
"For since the foundation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, "although the knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful.." (Rom. 1:18-21).
---Mark_V. on 3/13/13


Is not righteous deeds something God works in us? Eph 2:10.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13
AMEN LEE
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing:..
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

---Mark_V. on 3/12/13
Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It is not just crediting us with His righteousness, but filling us with the divine nature to cause us to do righteous deeds
---francis on 3/13/13


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Mark-V//Only those who are righteous do righteous deeds. We are not perfect but righteous. For no one is perfect, because the same John said before chapter 3,..

The thought here is that a Christian thru the work of the Holy Spirit can feed the poor, cloth the naked, heal the sick, visit those in prison, etc. MUCH the same as an unbeliever. But which of these would be considered righteous or be credited with righteous deeds?

Is not righteous deeds something God works in us? Eph 2:10.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


francis, Scripture explicitly tells us that it's Christ's righteousness that brings the sinner to God's eternal kingdom, NEVER that of the man's righteousness. Romans 10:2,3 was specifically written for your kind.

How then do you "impart" Christ's righteousness to the sinner? Your understanding and use of the word "impart" is in grave error and worse of all, BAD ENGLISH! Theologically, Scripture NEVER taught that Christ's righteousness was "imparted" but "IMPUTED".

Why don't you show us where in Scripture the words "impart & righteous" are used in the same sentence. You can't, that's because it's BAD ENGLISH!
---christan on 3/12/13


Christian,Again you demonstrate how shallow your study is!
Jesus said "Marvel not at this , for the hour is coming in which all those in the "GRAVE" will hear my voice and come out!" Jn.5.29

Will the real Christian please stand up!
They went to heaven???? Oh Yah!
---1st_cliff on 3/12/13


francis,
"1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one ( not francis, Jerry and all SDA's ) deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous"
Only those who are righteous do righteous deeds. We are not perfect but righteous. For no one is perfect, because the same John said before chapter 3,
"If we say that we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). so we confess, we are not perfect but do have the imputed righteousness of Christ Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 3/12/13


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1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one ( not e.lee7537, nor christan, nor any others) deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure

Timothy 3:5 e.lee7537, nor christan Have a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

KNOW THAT:

Jude 1:24 ( God ) is able to keep you from falling, ,
---francis on 3/12/13


Isa 64:6 But we are ALL as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13
YEP

Now compare and explain:

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.


My answer is the spirit of God IMPARTED to us causes us to obey

and you answer is
---francis on 3/12/13


Brother e.lee, francis rather emphasize on the word "impart" because he wants to be seen earning that righteousness through his obedience to the law, period.

Thank God, English language dictates there's a huge gulf between "impart" and "impute". Scripture doesn't say "impart righteousness" but rather: "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." Romans 4:6,22

ONLY God has the authority to impute righteousness to the sinner, declaring him not guilty anymore on the account of his faith in Jesus Christ. Now, that's amazing grace!
---christan on 3/12/13


christan //The righteousness of Christ cannot then be "imparted" but "imputed"!
---
Good to see such terms defined. Totally agree that the only righteousness we really have that counts is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us.

Hopefully Francis can understand this concept better and realize that any righteousness that he may acquire is viewed by God as filthy rags.

Isa 64:6 But we are ALL as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

There can be none of this 'lookie at me Jesus' I have obeyed your commandments and thus merit eternal life.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


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"The caption mentions heaven when the question is about salvation." 1stCliff

First of all, this site is called "ChristiaNet" for a reason. And whenever a blog with regards to the word salvation is mentioned, it's a given that it means salvation = heaven. You cannot have salvation = hell.

That would be, damnation = hell.

"Does salvation automatically mean life in heaven to you?"

If salvation in the context of Christianity does not mean life in heaven, then your understanding of the word "salvation" is kind of a questionable as to whether you're a Christian or not.
---christan on 3/12/13


Moderator, Just asking, The caption mentions heaven when the question is about salvation.
Does salvation automatically mean life in heaven to you?
---1st_cliff on 3/11/13


JamesL, what a deluded and depraved soul that's void of understanding with regards to salvation. First you call the OT "saints" and then proceeded to say they were "justified, and credited righteousness". And this is where you demonstrate what a lost soul you are, saying "Yet, they did not go to heaven when they died, they went to Hades."

I'm sure you won't be able to show us Scriptures from where you concluded these depraved ideas. Whereas Scripture will confirm the OT saints and the post saints are now in Paradise, not Hades. And Luke 16:20-31, Jesus confirms this - for the angels carried Lazarus to Abraham bosom (an OT saint) in Paradise while the rich ruler went to Hades.
---christan on 3/11/13


IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS IS:
That he would grant( BESTOW, GIVE TO, IMPART) you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, Ephesians 3:16

According as his divine power hath GIVING UNTO us (IMPARTED) all things that pertain unto life and godliness,.. that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, 2 Peter 1:3

It is the spirit of god in you, christ in your heart by faith, that strengthens us to allow us to obey his commandments

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
---francis on 3/11/13


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Leej,
what these 3 views (imputed, imparted, infused) all lack is the reality of the born again experience.

Old Testament saints were justified, and credited righteousness. Yet, they did not go to heaven when they died, they went to Hades.

Why is that? Because the blood of bulls and goats could only cover sins, it was not able to take away sins.

When Christ died, He removed sin. Thus, we are perfected for all times. (Hebrews 10:11-14)

If our righteousness went no further than mere imputation, no one would see the gates of glory
---James_L on 3/11/13


Dictionary defines the following -

IMPART: "1 to make known, tell, relate, disclose: to impart a secret. 2 to give, bestow, communicate: to impart knowledge. 3 to grant a part or share of.

IMPUTE: "to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously, ascribe as derived from another."

The prophets and apostles have "imparted" the Gospel of Jesus Christ to His people. Whereas, through faith in Jesus Christ, the sinner having being justified by faith is then "imputed" with the righteousness of Christ.

The righteousness of Christ cannot then be "imparted" but "imputed"!
---christan on 3/11/13


RichardC// the Love of God is a Love of works, but these works don't save a person,

We can agree good works are the product of God's Spirit working within the believer.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Often we are not even conscious of how God's Spirit works within us.

Notice if you will the judgment of the sheep & goats in Matthew 25:37f where the question was asked by the sheep 'Lord, WHEN did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And WHEN did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And WHEN did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'
---e.lee7537 on 3/11/13


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