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Was Paul An Apostle

Why do some, who claim to follow GOD, deny that the Apostle Paul was a legitimate Believer? Paul was clearly called by YAHUSHUA (JESUS) to follow Him, as shown in ACTS 9.

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Paul taught that God will save everyone, and he never once mentioned hell. But most Christians, if they are honest with themselves, disagree with Paul about that. All Christians pick and choose what they believe, despite protestations that they believe the whole Bible.
---Love.wins on 3/17/13


//Barb, your strange theology is of your creation. You do not approach Scripture to learn but set yourself above it, arrogantly telling God what you will accept.

Apparently this is a classic case of someone that is totally unable to understand Scripture. And there is a good reason why:

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

They are not indwelt by God's Holy Spirit so they are unable to understand the gospel message.
---e.lee7537 on 3/17/13


Barb, your strange theology is of your creation. You do not approach Scripture to learn but set yourself above it, arrogantly telling God what you will accept.

Paul rightly tells says all Scripture is God breathed, not man's ideas.

In 2 Peter 3:15,16 Peter calls Paul our beloved brother, refers to his writings as Scripture, which the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction! But you of course reject Paul to your own destruction. Likewise you reject Luke, as he does not fit with your nonBiblical ideas. This is supermarket, pick and choose theology while the whole Bible is the word of God which requires our intelligent acceptance.
---Warwick on 3/17/13


Founders of new religions are historically self-appointed. Paul is no exception. It is for those who come after them to determine their veracity. I will tell you, however, that I have no quarrel with Paul.
---Love.wins on 3/17/13


Francis, I do not use the words of Luke unless to show the difference between his writings and the writings of the eyewitness disciples. I usually just use the words of Matthew and John.

I can't accept Paul on his own word. Just because Paul wrote that Jesus' disciples gave him the hand of fellowship does not make it true.

I once believed as you do that Peter was endorsing Paul but not anymore. I already addressed that in another post. Jesus told Peter that he would be carried where he didn't want to go which seems to be the case.

---barb on 3/17/13




Mark V, I have no idea who Debra Sexton is nor do I care what she says.

Paul did say that he received a revelation from god. Read 2nd Cor 12:1-7. Also Gal. 1:12 "For I neither received it of man nor was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." and Eph 3:3 "How that by revelation he made known to me the mystery".
---barb on 3/17/13


---barb on 3/17/13
Since Jesus did not write anything, what you are using are the words of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Luke and Mark not being apostles.

Paul was endorsed by the other Apostles: Galatians 2:9 James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars,...gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen,

2 Peter 3:15 even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you,

Their Gospel was the same
Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
---francis on 3/17/13


LoveWins, If I tell you that I'm an apostle and prophet will you then follow me????
Is that all it takes??
---1st_cliff on 3/17/13


The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Such as yourself!

But, who baptized John? And:
The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?
From heaven not of men!


Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him!
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now: For thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered him.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Joh 14:21!
1Pe_1:21 Who by him do believe in God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/17/13


Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard, and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

His father was Zacharias:
His mother was Elisabeth

Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:

So he was not born of the Holy Spirit

But even in his mother womb, the Holy Spirit was working n him/ He had more ability through the spirit ( filled with the holy spirit) than the average messenger of God

Jesus however was born of the holy spirit, and had 100$ power of the Spirit
John 3:34 for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].
---francis on 3/17/13




StongAxe, I have used the Words of Jesus to decide that Paul should not be followed.

The only criterion I use is also the Words of Jesus and I do not suggest that anyone should use anything else.
---barb on 3/17/13


Doesn't anyone here feel, John the Baptist was born of the spirit?
Even before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.
I mean being Christ is God?


Luk_1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink, and
(he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.)

Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet!
For this is he, of whom it is written, (Behold, I send my messenger before thy face,) which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Now Mat_11:11, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:

What does with fill the spirit mean to you guys?
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/17/13


Love.wins:

You said: Paul was by his own admission an apostle, so that should settle it, don't you think?

How so? Just because somebody claims to be something, that doesn't mean he is. There are MANY false prophets, for example, who claim to be prophets, but aren't.
---StrongAxe on 3/17/13


Barb, you have been listening too much to Debbera Sexton, who has over four hundred followers. Jesus did finish the work that the Father gave Him to do while in His ministry. And Paul never said he had new revelation. When he said my gospel, he was not indicating a new gospel, the gospel he had was the gospel of Christ. If he had new gospel other then Jesus he would have said it was a new gospel. If you had read the rest of the passages in the context you would have got the message because the gospel he had was all about Christ. You are looking for fault, instead of looking for the Truth. Don't be bias when you read, are you will miss the whole of Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 3/17/13


Paul was by his own admission an apostle, so that should settle it, don't you think?
---Love.wins on 3/16/13


Barb you say
Jesus said that among those born of women, there is no one greater than John the Baptist. Matt 11:11

The key to this statement by Jesus lies in the expression "born of women". All people are "born of women". That is, born of the flesh, not of the Spirit.

At the time Jesus was speaking, no one had yet been born of the Spirit. That couldn't happen until after the Lord's crucifixion and resurrection, once the sin debt had been paid.
Have you been baptized into the Body of Christ?
1Cor 12:13
---michael_e on 3/16/13


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barb:

You are using your own theological opinion to decide that Paul's should not be followed (and thus, presumably, his writings would not be Holy Scripture, yes?)

However, this opinion differs markededly from most Christians who have lived in the past almost 2000 years. By what criterion should we believe that you alone are right, and many millions of Christians living and dead were all wrong?

Clearly Peter recognized his authority (unless you want to reject Luke as untrustworthy too).

Also, Jesus's comment about John the Baptist does not rule out Paul, since Paul was not converted yet at the time Jesus said it.
---StrongAxe on 3/16/13


Michael e, Jesus said that among those born of women, there is no one greater than John the Baptist. Matt 11:11. Jesus never said what you just said about Saul/Paul.

If you follow Paul, you are not following Jesus. "IF you continue in MY WORD, then you are my disciples indeed, and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free." John 8:31-32.
---barb on 3/16/13


Measured by true values, Paul was the greatest man who ever lived on this earth, with the exception of the Man Christ Jesus, who was in a class by Himself. The Lord said, I must finish and I have finished. Paul said, I must finish (Acts 20:24) and I have finished (II Tim 4:7). God honored Moses, directing him to write five books. He honored John permitting him to write five Books. He honored Peter permitting him to write two Books. But the Lord directed Paul to write as many or more Books in the Bible than the twelve Books written by these three honored servants.

If you follow Christ today you must follow Paul.

1 Cor 14:37".. the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."
John 13:20, Acts 9:15
---michael_e on 3/16/13


Mark V, here is the lie from Paul. Jesus sent out his apostles to the world in Matt 28:18-20, baptizing and teaching anyone who would hear to observe every word that He spoke without ever mentioning a new revelation to come. Paul tells us that he has a new revelation from God.

Jesus in His prayer to His Father in John 17:3-4 said that He had finished the work that God gave Him to do. Paul says that He was sent with a new revelation from god but Jesus has already told us that He has completed God's message to the world.
---barb on 3/16/13


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Barb, who made you judge of the Word of God? When the Church accepted the Word of God, they did not make the Word of God Truth, It was already Truth. I have not written anywhere that you were there to accept the Truth of Scripture. You are now teaching that most of the New Testament is a lie. And have yet to proof what you say. So there is no other conclusion, then to say that you take away from the Word of God, the Bible.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/13


\\Mark V, I have not added or taken away from the Word of God or His Son.

The words of Paul are not the words of God and His Son.\\

In which of the above sentences did barb not tell the truth?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/16/13


Mark V, I have not added or taken away from the Word of God or His Son.

The words of Paul are not the words of God and His Son. To prove that they are you will have to show me where God or Jesus said so and you cannot because all you have are the words of Paul.

I can prove to you thru the Words of Jesus Christ that His disciples gave us the Words of God thru His Son, John 14:26, John 15:27, John 17:6-10, Matt 28:18-20 and there are many more verses that you can read for yourself if you really want to see.
---barb on 3/16/13


Jesus says we are "brothers" . . . family . . . our Father's children.

And Paul says, about how he related with Christians > "But we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (1 Thessalonians 2:7) So, this is a match with how Jesus says we are God's family. Paul loved in God's family way.

But there are people who do not love in God's family way with each other. And so, they may only look at words of the Bible, and then come up with their own misunderstandings that contradict each other.

We can't truly understand God's word, unless we are loving in our Father's family way that is the love meaning of His words.
---willie_c: on 3/16/13


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barb, we know you trust Jesus and I am glad you do. But you continue to make comments you cannot support. Here again you said,

" I do not trust Paul because he is a liar."

Where is the evidence? I asked you for the evidence he lied and to this day you have not provide anything. To call one of God's great apostles a liar, is really condemning most of the New Testament. Where is the evidence? You do know that adding or taking away from the Word of God brings judgment from God right? John also wrote Revelation.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/13


Gordon, I do not trust Paul because he is a liar. I choose to put all of my trust in Jesus Christ and the Words that His Father gave Him that He passed on to us thru His disciples. Jesus is the Word of God.

Paul does not teach me anything about the life or teachings of Jesus. Sure, Paul says thru Christ, in Christ, of Christ, etc. etc. but what does he really tell us about Jesus. Nothing, because he never met Jesus. I have already told you why I don't believe it was Jesus that Paul encountered on the road to Damascus (I think that post made it thru). Jesus never told us to follow anyone but Himself and that includes anyone claiming to be a fellow follower.

Hopefully they will let this post thru.



---barb on 3/15/13


"Luke was a convert of Paul's. He was not an eyewitness to Jesus' ministry, therefore I do not accept any of his words as truth."-barb on 3/14/13
"...Most scholars believe that Peter was dead when 2nd Peter was written...I have read that Polycarp was a follower of Paul.."-barb on 3/14/13
Barb chooses to believe these "scholars" and writers of Polycarp, who also were "not eyewitnesses to Jesus' ministry", nor alive when Peter and Polycarp were. Doesn't this seem double minded to you barb? --that you would choose not to believe someone on grounds that others you do beleive also meet?
What is your basis for beleif in these "scholars", who are centuries and eons from the eyewitnesses?
---micha9344 on 3/15/13


barb, you say to James L,
"I don't know for sure that John wrote the 4th gospel" you are not even sure John wrote the gospel of John, what makes you believe
"but I believe that it is inspired and that whoever wrote it was a beloved follower of His?" How can you possibly know it was inspired? Your proof that John is inspired cannot come from John's words if you cannot proof John wrote it.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/13


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Barb you ask
//Weren't most of them murdered in different parts of Asia and Europe?//
Is this Biblical or from an "inspired" internet site?
---michael_e on 3/15/13


None of us know for sure what happened to the disciples or where they travelled to.
---barb on 3/14/13

I could say the same about Jesus and His resurrection. But we live by faith.
---Scott1 on 3/15/13


Barb, What are people, like yourself, so afraid of about trusting that the Apostle Paul was really a true Follower and Believer in YAHUSHUA (JESUS)?? Please, don't just refer me to a web-site again, I can go there whenever. But, explain it plain and simply in your own words. Make it easier for all of us, here, to understand. I'm actually asking rhetorically, for I know that I know that Sha'ul was of YAHUSHUA. But, explain here plainly, would you?
---Gordon on 3/15/13


\\None of us know for sure what happened to the disciples or where they travelled to.
---barb on 3/14/13\\

Who's this "None of us," Kemo Sabe?

YOU may not know, but ancient Church historians such as Eusebius have recorded what happened.

Just because YOU don't know what happened to the apostles or where they went doesn't mean that OTHERS do not know.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/15/13


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James L, that was my point. None of us know for sure what happened to the disciples or where they travelled to.
---barb on 3/14/13


James L, I don't know for sure that John wrote the 4th gospel but I believe that it is inspired and that whoever wrote it was a beloved follower of His. John 14:26, John 15:27.
---barb on 3/15/13


Strongaxe, I tried all those questions with Barb and never got one clear reason why she spoke so badly of Paul. The only point I could find was that she just doesn't like him for some reason that she will not tell. I found no contradictions at all between Paul and Jesus. The only reason I can find is that she doesn't like Paul, and I suppose no one can make her like him. But he sure is in Scripture and if he was not important many books would never have made canon.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/13


barb:

If you don't accept Luke's words because he wasn't an eyewitness, you should toss out all your bibles - because they don't contain ANY original words, just copies of copies of copies made by human (and therefore fallible) copyists.

Otherwise, why would you trust hundreds of years of monks and others copying manuscripts, but you wouldn't trust Luke, a faithful Christian, who compiled a cohesive and readable manuscript from stories that he himself received second-hand from actual eyewitnesses (or perhaps third-hand from others whom God chose to pass along these stories)?

Do you also reject the five books of Moses (Genesis, etc.) because Moses could not have possibly have witnessed the creation and his own death?
---StrongAxe on 3/14/13


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Gordon, I know what Acts 9 says but we only have Paul's word for it that the spirit he encountered was who he thought it was. Didn't Jesus tell us to test the spirits?

Why doesn't Paul ever use the men travelling with him for eyewitnesses to his conversion on the road to Damascus? He never calls them forth as eyewitnesses, not even when he is standing before Agrippa, instead he appeals to Caesar. And where is Ananias? Did anyone ever verify Paul's story?

Believe me, I know how futile it is to try and change anyone's mind about Paul. I am sharing what I have learned and you are free to read it or not.
---barb on 3/14/13


Michael 9344, a little research into who wrote 2nd Peter might be helpful. Most scholars believe that Peter was dead when 2nd Peter was written.

I have read that Polycarp was a follower of Paul and therefore did as he was told and imitated him (Paul) so of course he would speak well of him.
---barb on 3/14/13


\\how do you know that Jesus' disciples did not do what He commanded them? Weren't most of them murdered in different parts of Asia and Europe?\\
---barb on 3/14/13

That's part of what I don't get, barb.

Where do you find info about any of the apostles' deaths?

The only scource for that information (Church Tradition) is the same exact source that tells us Paul's writings, as well as Luke's and Matthew's are scripture.

Why do you believe the apostle John wrote the fourth gospel? I do not believe he did.

If you became convinced that John did not write this gospel, would you then dismiss it?
---James_L on 3/14/13


Can anyone answer this question? Why would Jesus send out His disciples with an incomplete message of salvation?
---barb on 3/14/13

The answer is in the definition of nation (ethnos).
---aaa on 3/14/13


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Michael e, how do you know that Jesus' disciples did not do what He commanded them? Weren't most of them murdered in different parts of Asia and Europe?

As for Acts 8, please remember that Luke was not there. He is writing Paul's version of the events and we are never told by Luke that he received any of his information from the original apostles.

Paul had no use for Jesus' disciples. He tells the Galatians that whatever they were he learned nothing from them. He calls them so called pillars and super apostles and brags about standing up to Peter.
---barb on 3/14/13


James L, Luke was a convert of Paul's. He was not an eyewitness to Jesus' ministry, therefore I do not accept any of his words as truth. Yes, I do quote Luke occasionaly to show the difference between the eyewitness accounts and the non eyewitness writings.

Luke's gospel was actually a letter written to Theophilus according to Luke 1:3-4.
---barb on 3/14/13


\broken record
2Pet 3:15b-16 ...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you, As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
-How about Peter?
-denial of authorship?
"For neither I, nor any other such one, can come up to the wisdom of the blessed and glorified Paul. He, when among you, accurately and stedfastly taught the word of truth in the presence of those who were then alive."-Polycarp[a.d. 65-155.]
-2000 years and still wrestling.
---micha9344 on 3/14/13


Barb, Here are some Words by Luke, they're from ACTS 9. In ACTS 9 are Statements made by YAHUSHUA directed at Paul and written down by Luke by the Divine Direction of GOD's Holy Spirit. Nothing there written by Paul. And, you read further in the Book of ACTS how Paul became one of the Believers in YAHUSHUA. So, why treat him like he wasn't a true follower? He does not contradict YAHUSHUA. He followed Him. He obeyed Him. He carried out His Plans for Him like he was supposed to. You nor anyone else is going to convince any TRUE Believer here that the Apostle Paul was not the real deal. We know that he was, and that he is in Heaven now, as we speak.
---Gordon on 3/14/13


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barb,
I understand that you don't accept Luke's testimony as far as doctrine is condcerned, but it seems to me that you have in the past (at least somewhat) acknowledged that he was accurate in his accounts of what others said and did in Acts

Is this the case? It will help if I can know what you believe he was accurate on and what he wasn't
---James_L on 3/14/13


//Jesus sent out His disciples in Matthew 28:18-20 to all nations, baptizing, teaching everyone to observe all things that He had commanded them.//

Why didn't they do what they were commande to do?

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem, and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
---michael_e on 3/14/13


At the risk of sounding like a broken record here I go again.

Do you realize that most of you are backing up Paul with his own written words? Could you try using the Law and Prophets, the Words of Jesus or one of His eyewitness disciples, John or Matthew as proof that Paul was called by God. All you really have to go on is Paul's word for it and Luke's account in Acts of what Paul said happened.

Jesus sent out His disciples in Matthew 28:18-20 to all nations, baptizing, teaching everyone to observe all things that He had commanded them. He did not tell them to wait for further revelation from Paul or anyone else. Can anyone answer this question? Why would Jesus send out His disciples with an incomplete message of salvation?
---barb on 3/14/13


Now that the "Paulites" are all stirred up it's time to look at this objectively!
Paul wrote 13 books of the 27 NT.(roughly 1/2) so naturally he's held in high esteem,especially since they were all included in making the bible canon! Because they are included it's assumed that they are inspired. (put together by Roman Catholic priests)
Add to this Paul's "absent from the body" nonsense plus Luke's (and only Luke's) account of the Rich man and Lazarus (he never met Jesus)
So the deck was "stacked" from the get go!
Problem= very subtle lie of the soul's immortality!
---1st_cliff on 3/14/13


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To follow Christ today, we must follow Paul 1 Cor 11:1, Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. we follow the Ascended Christ

Many say I follow Jesus. If you do, do you follow Him in circumcision (Luke 2:21). Follow Him into the synagogue on the Sabbath(Luke 4:16). Follow Him as One under the Law, obeying them that sit in Moses seat (Gal. 4:4 & Matt. 23:1-3). Do you heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and raise the dead (Matt. 10:8). If anyone sues you, do you contest the suit, or give more than they demand (Matt. 5:40). If you loan money, do you lend without expecting to be repaid (Matt. 5:42 & Luke 6:34-35). If you follow Jesus of Nazareth, you should do these things, Jesus Himself taught and practiced them.
---michael_e on 3/14/13


1st Cliff, I'm sorry, but, if you continue to disregard the Apostle Paul as a true Believer, then that Verse of TITUS 3:10, which Trey quoted below, shall also have to apply to you. "A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition, reject." Anyone who claims to be a Follower of GOD and yet is "Anti-Pauline" in their beliefs IS an heretick, and are to be avoided IF they decide to continue in their anti-Pauline heresy. You now have a choice in which direction you want to go concerning this.
---Gordon on 3/14/13


So Cliff! Are you then saying that all scripture isn't given by inspiration of God because Paul's writings have no place in it? And for that matter, since Peter was so easily duped by Paul, maybe his writings should be excluded also? Oh wait, I forgot the point you were trying to make about Luke not really being there when Jesus did his miracles & said all that He said. So, as you've indicated in the past, can we really trust Luke's writings? Well, I guess we'll just have to replace all that with the vainly inspired writings of 1st Cliff!

Perish the thought!!! :)
---Leon on 3/14/13


\\Not only is Paul in dispute with the words of Jesus but he is at odds with himself as well.\\ barb

"If you could take this cup away. Nevertheless, not my will but thy will."

If you say that Paul was at odds with Jesus sometimes, then be fair. Jesus was in conflict with God sometimes.
---aaa on 3/14/13


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1st cliff, can you show where (what verses) Paul teaches the souls immortality without Christ?

Cause from what I have read he doesn't.
---g on 3/14/13


Following the "majority" is not my forte'.
Paul ,like all Pharisees believed in the soul's immortality which is not scriptural!
His "in the body, out of the body"jargon attempts to give credence to this false doctrine!
Sure his charisma won over Peter and others , not surprising,he was a gifted orator!Learning his trade at the feet of Gamaliel wasn't long establishing churches and hierarchy!
Today's hodge-podge of denominations is the result!

---1st_cliff on 3/13/13


Gordon,

You are correct! Paul, formerly called Saul, was a true apostle as witnessed by scripture. Luke and Peter both testify to the fact.

Concerning Barb:
Titus3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject,
Titus3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Is that plain enough?
---trey on 3/13/13


Leon, your theological nonsense just keep flowing from your heart. Since when after reading Paul's epistle's does one come away that Paul was "...seeking to eradicate sin in the lives of Believers."

No one then and to come has expounded God's GRACE the way Paul did, and that's only by the GRACE OF GOD that He raised Paul to teach believer's GRACE. To say he was "eradicating sin" is to deny GRACE and that's what you're basically saying. Sin can never be eradicated while this world exist, that's why God will destroy this world.

Without Paul, we will have no understanding of the GRACE OF GOD that flowed so freely from the beginning of Genesis till I'm sure the end of time that's to come.
---christan on 3/13/13


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1st Cliff, 1) Paul saw YAHUSHUA as a Glorious and Blinding Light. And, 'though he was Blinded By The Light, he STILL could say that he saw Him. Paul was PERSONALLY VISITED BY YAHUSHUA, Cliff. THAT accounts for "seeing the Lord", as one of the prerequisites for becoming an Apostle. 2) PAUL heard what the Lord said! 3) Paul WAS a Pharisee UNTIL he became a Believer! 4) Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit, Who knows ALL THINGS, inspired Luke to write the Book of ACTS.
---Gordon on 3/13/13


We all know that God says scripture witnesses scripture.
If we measure what Paul says to what Christ says, There are NO inconsistencies.
I would like Barb to show comparisons by putting verse against verse, what Christ says to what Paul says to prove what she believes is truth. If she cannot do this then what she believes about Paul is false. And the people she is following that are telling this to her are also false.
We who know Christ and Paul 100% agree, already know they do. The burden of proof is on Barb and those like her to prove what they believe is truth.
If they can't, they are just another cult causing a rift in the Body of Christ.
---g on 3/13/13


Hi, Barb. I read the Biblical Chapters you referred me to and I see no inconsistencies in what Paul believed to what YAHUSHUA taught. The Apostle Paul (Sha'ul) simply gave his Testimony of how he used to side with the imprisoning and the killing off of the Believers. But, that was BEFORE YAHUSHUA met him on the road to Damascus. YAHUSHUA filled him, later, with the Holy Spirit, and Paul became one of the Believers, and was no longer one of their persecutors. YAHUSHUA sent Paul to evangelize the Gentiles while Peter (Kepha) was sent to the Jews. There are Books that were left out of the Canonical Scriptures, but all of the Books of the current Canon are legitimate.
---Gordon on 3/13/13


I also had some words with barb concerning Paul to no avail. Everything she presented gave no proof of what she was talking about. Second, she only believes the words of some writers of Scripture not all. So she gets to pick which ones she believes are truth and which not truth, sort of like what 1Cliff does, the reason he says what he does, bringing some kind of charges against Paul, even to suggest Luke's words were not inspired. I found no contradictions between Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ. Both walked the earth and both taught the same gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke to the Jews, but much of what He said pertained to us as believers. Paul was commission to the Gentiles.
---Mark_V. on 3/13/13


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\\I do not believe that Paul was called by Jesus because his writings/words do not measure up to the Word of God. \\

St. Paul's writingsd preserve in the NT ARE the Word of God, barb.

\\Not only is Paul in dispute with the words of Jesus but he is at odds with himself as well.\\

So was Jesus, if you press it too far. At one time Jesus said, "He who is not for Me is against Me." At another time He said, "He who is not against Me is for Me."

The problem, barb, is that you are not a Christian, as is seen on your posts in the blog about the Holy Spirit. These themselves go against the Word of God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/13/13


"Why do some, who claim to follow GOD, deny that the Apostle Paul was a legitimate Believer? Paul was clearly called by YAHUSHUA (JESUS) to follow Him, as shown in ACTS 9."

Here's the rub: The "Apostle Paul" said some very radical & abrasive things that goes against the grain (sin nature) of many Bible readers. In other words, Paul's words stepped on & are yet stepping on sinner's toes. Many people covet their specific sin(s) & take particular offense if it's uncovered & openly addressed in the light of day. That's what the squabbling is all about! :)

By leading of God, the Holy Spirit, Paul was a master at spotlighting & seeking to eradicate sin in the lives of Believers.
---Leon on 3/13/13


They assume that Paul is an anti-christ therefore all of the verses telling christians to watch out for anti-christ (Revelation, Peter, and 1-3 John) are saying watch out for Paul, though he is not mentioned specificly, even though he would be since others are and he would be the ring leader. They also ignore/twist verses that show Peter and James agreeing with Paul like Acts 15:4 because it is part of the conspiracy of the writer namely Luke. If they can turn something into proving Paul is the anti-christ, they use it. Which is wierd because that is what anti-christ do is twist scripture to there own uses, like satan in the temptation of Jesus.
The problem with conspiracies is that any proof of the conspiracy is part of the conspiracy.
---Scott1 on 3/13/13


If Paul was an anti-christ why did he bring money to the Jewish believers?
---Scott1 on 3/13/13


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//Why do some, who claim to follow GOD, deny that the Apostle Paul was a legitimate Believer?

And Paul defends his Apostleship in Philippians 3.

I suspect that the main reason that Paul's Apostleship was questionable was because he was not an exponent of the laws of Judaism.

In order words, he did not teach circumcision - the entry rite into Judaism.

Ga 5:3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

And that would include the dietary laws, the Sabbath, the national holidays, etc. - laws distinctly Jewish in nature.
---e.lee7537 on 3/12/13


Hi Cluny, obviously you have not met Barb on here. There are also a couple others.

I thank God that he called Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.
---trey on 3/12/13


"I do not believe that Paul was called by Jesus because his writings/words do not measure up to the Word of God." barb

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel..." Acts 9:15 - mind you, the account here tells us that this was Jesus talking to Ananias.

Guess what, that makes you a true unbeliever of the Word based on your own testimony.

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:37
---christan on 3/12/13


There are those who have really weird belief that do not believe Paul was an Apostle.
---KarenD on 3/12/13


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An Apostle is someone called personally by Jesus.

Paul is an apostle because Jesus called him to follow him as the other 12.
---Nikki on 3/13/13


I do not believe that Paul was called by Jesus because his writings/words do not measure up to the Word of God. Not only is Paul in dispute with the words of Jesus but he is at odds with himself as well.

Read Acts 9 and then read Acts 26 and compare them to one another. The inconsistencies are astounding. Also read Matt 28:18-20.
---barb on 3/12/13

Barb, no man's words can ever measure up to God's Words. He is God.
Paul explains God's Words.
I don't see inconsistencies you are speaking about.
please, give example.
I am not looking for a fight.
I never heard of anyone thinking of Paul as not a legitimate believer.
I am listening.
---Nikki on 3/13/13


Barb, the inconsistencies you see between Acts 9 and 26, where are they exactly?'
---Warwick on 3/13/13


//The inconsistencies are astounding.//Barb

What inconsistencies? Acts 9 is a global point of view of conversion. where Acts 26 is from a personal point of view in a trial setting before the King but it is the same information.

Matthew 28 the great commision is Love God, Love people. How did Paul fail in that.
---Scott1 on 3/13/13


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Gordon, Some significant facts need to be considered here,
#1 No one saw YAHASHUA Acts.9
#2 No one heard the (they just heard voices) conversation!
#3 Paul was a Pharisee whom Jesus denounced!
#4 Luke , who wrote Acts, was not himself an apostle nor Jewish nor was he there!

Conclusion, It's all heresay evidence!

Is it faith to believe it or credulity?
---1st_cliff on 3/13/13


Gordon, there is a lot of information about this subject and it is easy to research on a computer. I would like to provide you with a link but I don't believe we are allowed to do that here.

I do not believe that Paul was called by Jesus because his writings/words do not measure up to the Word of God. Not only is Paul in dispute with the words of Jesus but he is at odds with himself as well.

Read Acts 9 and then read Acts 26 and compare them to one another. The inconsistencies are astounding. Also read Matt 28:18-20.
---barb on 3/12/13


I'm not aware of anyone who does deny St. Paul's faith.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/12/13


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