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Why Choose Christianity

If you had not heard the gospel before, why would you choose Christianity?

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 ---1st_cliff on 3/16/13
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Literature/Ministry- (2)

We regularly hear comments, even by those who disagree with us, about the zeal that Witnesses have for the ministry.

Acts 1:8 says: "You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Question: if a "Christian" organization is not 'witnessing to the ends of the earth' with power, what is missing from their organization?

Accepting literature during our ministry= personal choice. For me if someone wants to give me something that is obviously critical I say: "Sure! but, I invite you to find me at home the way that I found you this afternoon!"
---scott on 3/25/13

Witnesses accepting literature while in our ministry- (1)

I personally have never seen this specifically addressed in WT's possible.

But I have accepted lots of literature from individuals in my ministry depending on the nature of the information.

If it's content is pejorative toward JWs I personally decline for these reasons:

1. Jesus said that "this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Matt 24:14

I, along with other Witnesses around the world, prayerfully, thoughtfully, take this Kingdom message, and my small part in preaching it, very seriously.

---scott on 3/22/13

To understand the (extra caustic) gnashing of Marc and Warwick's teeth you would need to review the embarrassing series of comments they have made on the "Live on Earth Forever" thread.

While Marc has, (like David Copperfield) introduced a variety of diversionary topics to avert our eyes from his original, "Witnesses [can't] read other literature" accusation (wow), I will address two, ('accepting literature while in our ministry' and 'literature of apostates', because he has asked so nicely.

First a little irony:

Having the great pleasure of speaking to thousands of people about the bible, I have been told by many that their ministers encourage them not to accept literature from Jehovah's Witnesses. Hmmm.
---scott on 3/22/13

Christian, I have never heard the terms common grace or special grace.---trey on 3/21/13

We have different names for these graces, but I think they are the same.

2000 CCC: Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love.
Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God's call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God's interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.
---Nikki on 3/21/13

Yes, He loved first-because He is Love: and He has provided He plan of Salvation to be taught so the whosoever believeth "In Him"...

John 3:15For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Wages of Sin --- Paid---For All.

1 Peter 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

King of Kings - Lord of Lords
---char on 3/21/13

John 3:15For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If it wasn't for Elohyims Love for those He created - His protection would have never been into put to play.

*Adam would have not been separated from the tree of life and the sin nature would have been a timeless existence

*There would have never been a separation betwixt seeds Gen3:15

*No command for separation and salvation for the pure blood line by the breath of Life Gen7:15
---char on 3/21/13

Christian, I have never heard the terms common grace or special grace. I read of grace in the scriptures. Is not all of God's grace special? Please explain.
---trey on 3/21/13

God forbid that I woud glory except in the CROSS....WHO SAID THAT...Oh Paul, who knew what IT MEANT.

Yes, "THE PREACH OF THE CROSS" is foolishness to MarkV and all who are lost.

MarkV, the more you talk the more ignorant of truth you make yourself know.

I really do care that you are ignorant of these things. It makes me sad that you also scoff at Paul as well.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/13

I know MarkV you believe your salvation took place without a cross or death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's why you continue to scoff at the doctrine of the Cross, or any verse Paul uses the word CROSS in.

Why does he too say, those who mind earthly things are ENEMIES OF THE CROSS. Your unregenerate mind would one can be an enemy with a piece of wood.

The CROSS is clearly stated in scripture YOU CANNOT SEE, yet you try to cram down our throats something called Special Grace vs Common Grace not even in scripture.

So you actually believe Ephesians 2 states you were saved by SPECIAL GRACE vs common grace where Special Grace comes prepackaged with Faith where as common grace does not?

Such garbage!
---kathr4453 on 3/21/13

Christian, **"free will" is able to overcome death by choosing life**
You almost "got it" Christian,but that "IS" God's grace! and it's free!
Choosing Christ is choosing life...too simple huh?
---1st_cliff on 3/21/13

Oh Scott, poor Scott. As every non-JW knows, those of us who have tried to hand over other material to a JW, they NEVER accept it and if they do, they quickly return it when their local thought policeman tells them to. I mean, can you actually disobey one of your leaders and think that you'll not be hauled up before The Committee?

Scott, you're either in complete denial or a liar on this matter. The fact that your spiritual masters pressure you into destroying material sent by an ex-JW speaks heaps about the cult youre in. Face it, Scott, youre in a cult. Mind control, mate, nothing more, nothing less.
---Marc on 3/21/13

Brother MarkV, the problem with some who claim to teach grace cannot even differentiate the difference between "common and special grace", which is taught throughout the Bible. Their understanding of grace is just grace and that's because they have to deny that God has chosen (which is special grace) to justify their "free-will". Deny all they want for they deny God of His sovereignty.

Anyways, if one indeed has the "free-will" to choose between life and death as so commanded by God, why do they even need to depend on God's grace, since their "free-will" is able to overcome death by choosing life? Such is their hypocrisy and mockery of God's grace.
---christan on 3/21/13

Kathr, your teaching works to salvation when you say,

"Like MarkV, Nicci took what I was stating about the CROSS...yes go back and look, and attacked that, just as MarkV also attacks what I say about the CROSS."

You keep mentioning the cross and capitalize it, to sound like you are very religious and know what you are talking about. The cross saves no one, God's grace saves through faith (Eph. 2"8,9), and when God's grace comes, you trust and belief in the gospel Truth.
If those dead in sin, had to was to belief in the Cross to be saved, they would be saved by their own works, as you did. "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.." (Rom. 11:6).
---Mark_V. on 3/21/13

If I had never heard of Christ I would look at the world how in sync it is with the moon and stars, tides, planting crops by the moon and I would have to know there was someone up above that makes all that happen. I also have more brains than to think our body is the result of a germ in the dirt that evolves. how complex yet simple. I am thankful my mom and dad prayed for me and took me to church and told me about Jesus.
---shira4368 on 3/20/13

Scott, Actually it was me who made that statement not Marc.
I should have said "afaid to read" not "not allowed" (sorry) I'm speaking of my own experiences and those of my family who absolutely refuse to read anything that resembles negativity of the Society's record!Or my own experience!
The reason why? fear? For this reason my own son hasn't spoken to me in 5 years,total fear that he may be wrong and can't face it!
When I was a "witness", at his age, I would have spoken to the Pope or anyone about my faith without fear,but those days are gone!
---1st_cliff on 3/20/13

Scott, over the decades I have had countless visits by the JW's. One man visited me for a year, each Saturday. That is why I know quite a bit of the workings of the cult. In all that time no JW would accept any literature I offered. From my discussions with other non JW's they have had the same experience. It is what JW's are taught.

BTW the JW's visit our street from time to time but no longer visit me. I have never been rude, and have always invited them in if it was possible but have been able to contradict their beliefs when face to face. In such meetings they cannot do the switch and bait evasion you practice.

My experience with different 'ranks' of JW's leads me to believe you are an office holder. You are aren't you?
---Warwick on 3/20/13

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Nikki, peace to you...lots start again.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

Scott, there are quite a few of my questions you have failed to answer.

Reading only from the NWT we see.

Deuteronomy 28:14 says you must not "walk after other gods to serve them." But Jesus is called "a god" in John 1:1! And Colossians 3:24 says you must "Slave" for the Lord Jesus.

How do you reconcile the obvious, and serious, contradiction in that you, on the one hand must not serve any god, but you serve Jesus who you call a god?

Then we can get back to who it was who spoke Creation into existence. And also the JW trinity of an Almighty God, plus a Mighty God, and a god.
---Warwick on 3/20/13

There is no such thing as Common Grace and Special Grace. Is the Cross common? NO NO NO, and again, to be Gracious to someone is not the definition of common grace either. Again only WORDS made up by man to twist the scriptures to teach a false doctrine.

To be saved by GRACE is again to be saved by Jesus death and resurrection life, being baptized into His Body, a member of His Body, living HIS LIFE through us. Galatians 2:20-21.

Christan's definition never once mentions the CROSS.

This is what MARKV HATES to hear.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

The ONLY doctrine who uses the term COMMON GRACE and Special Grace is Reformed Theology RE : John Calvin, and today's hyper Calvinists .

The GRACE of God is all of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

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Thank you MarkV, and I am sorry you got caught in the crossfire.

To you Kathr, Peace.
No hard feelings. I think somewhere in our blogs we got caught up in different topics.
Lets move on as Christ wants us to live.

---Nikki on 3/20/13

Scott, you sound just like Kathr. All you guys do is talk a lot of stuff, accuse everyone, but there is no truth in your religion. Everything is a lie from the very beginning. When confronted with one subject only, they throw in many passages to confuse the issue. That is one of Kathr greatest works, to speak of many subjects at a time, this way you cannot keep up with her. You and Kathr know how to twist the very word of God by putting lots of passages together. And Yes, Jehovah witnesses are advice not to read any other kind of material outside what they teach. They also advice Witnesses not to hang around with none witnesses, that is why they many times separate even from their families. The want to keep the flock blind and brain washed.
---Mark_V. on 3/20/13

To answer the question:
Jer31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

Mt16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Joh6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Sounds like we love him because he first loved us.
BTW, drawing - think of drawing water from a well.
---trey on 3/20/13

Hoping that no one will notice his sleight of hand, Marc changes his false accusation from "Other Literature' to 'Apostate literature" Clearly not the same thing.

His full statement ("Live on Earth Forever" thread) was:

"I guess you'd never understand Scott because (i) JWs aren't allowed to read other literature." Marc 3/17/13

Whoops. Caught with his theological pants down around his ankles...again, Marc attemps to change the language of his previously failed claim.

Unless Marc is saying now that all "Others" (in the world), and all "Opposers" (in the world) are ex-Witnesses.

Curiouser and curiouser.
---scott on 3/20/13

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Like MarkV, Nicci took what I was stating about the CROSS...yes go back and look, and attacked that, just as MarkV also attacks what I say about the CROSS.

People CAN read and it's all right here...who was attacking who.

MarkV will pander to anyone no matter what and loves being a busy body gossip running in his pink nighty from house to house gossiping called SIN God HATES!..yet he claims to live by GRACE...YUCK!.

Christan is not the resident EXPERT ON GRACE. Grace is THE CROSS. You were saved by Jesus Death and resurrection = GRACE. Now "In Christ" we GROW IN THAT GRACE in which we stand,and that part is clear Markv or Christan just don't get! We stand CRUCIFIED with Christ and also CRUCIFIED to this world.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

Why MarkV Gossips:

There are many reasons why people feel compelled to gossip: humiliating, putting others down, spite, just because they can, because they feel they will benefit from its end result, looking better in front of others. But the true, deep rooted reason, and psychological studies have proven it, is the feeling of superiority that results from such vicious behavior. The person feels superior not only because he/she feels that they have information to offer that the other person does not have, feeing as if he/she was a much better person than the subject of the gossip. It's all signs of a series of delusions one feels about their own importance. Other signs of superior behavior are seen as well.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

Good question cliff.

The prophets spoke to Israel - whom God calls chosen (Isaiah 43) prophesy of His Word/Son whom He calls His elect (Isaiah 42)

Prophesied all will be taught of/by/from God (Holy Spirit) - Elohyim confirming/testifying His Word.
Word first - then Elohyim testifies/confirms and teaches In Spirit and In truth.1 Cor 2(Wisdom of Elohyim)

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Mk 12:29[...]'Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord:"
---char on 3/20/13

Nikki, remember, no matter the subject, whether a song or your faith, Kathr will always argue with you. If its about grace, your wrong, about salvation your wrong, about Jesus Christ and your wrong.
Christan gave the best answer on grace. God has been gracious to every single person in many ways, that is common grace, but man does not see it because they are dead in trespasses. Saving grace only comes to those who are chosen by God. A person will not understand grace until after he believes. When saving grace came he was able to believe, for faith is a free gift of God.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8.9).
---Mark_V. on 3/20/13

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Colossians 3:16

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord

Oh YEA, what a great verse...just what we were talking about..

CS Lewis wrote a book about love and marriage. He got a letter from a woman asking " have you ever been married". I see you write about it, but something is missing in your words. He wrote back confessing , NO, he wasn't writing from personal experience.

Those who KNOW from experience can tell those who have never experienced at all.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/13

//What does the singer mean when he sings 'Mary did you know?'//Nikki

I am going to answer you by asking a question "Does Jesus love you?"
I am NOT questioning your faith.
What I am doing is inspiring you to reflect on the blessings and gifts God has given to you.
The song is doing the same thing by asking "Mary did you know?" so that the listener will reflect, ponder the life and the sacrifice of Jesus. I don't think Mary did know during the birth that Jesus would have to die to save mankind. If you look at Luke 2:19. Which I believe (I cannot prove) is a picture of the interview Luke had with Mary while writing the book as she remembers the good times over seeing his death.
---Scott1 on 3/20/13

GRACE is not a thing but is use in Scripture to describe the work of God. And if one pays special attention to Scriptures, you will realize He works in two kinds of Grace which theologians will classify as Common and Special Grace.

This is Common Grace: "... for He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matthew 5:45 - unbelievers and believers experience this everyday.

This is Special Grace: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 - He doesn't draw "every man" but only those He has chosen. Special Grace pertains to the salvation of the sinner.
---christan on 3/19/13

Me: "[JWs are not] allowed to read other literature"

Scott: "Prove your ill-informed (and bizarre) accusation or we will file it under "fail", along with your other false claims."

The Watchtower, March 15, 1986, p. 12, states, "what will you do if you are confronted with apostate teaching - subtle teaching - claiming that what you believe as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not the truth?" This is accompanied by a photo rhetorically captioned with "Do you wisely destroy apostate material?"

Yep, really does sound like Scott's masters want JWs to read opposing opinion and to independently make their own mind up.
---Marc on 3/19/13

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Scott: "What Church Father [etc] ever referred to..such a rule before [Sharp]?"
Huh? If writing theology in your native tongue (here, ancient Greek), do you need to quote a grammar rule every time you refer to a biblical passage? Do you in English?

Ignatius (d. 110): "There is one Physician, of flesh and of Spirit, originate and unoriginate, God in man...Jesus Christ our Lord." Does this sound like a Trinitarian or a JW? Can you quote me the first JW early Church Father?

BTW, you are entirely dishonest. Previously you stated that you have no need for Church fathers' comments but now you draw them in to bolster your Koine Greek illiteracy.
---Marc on 3/19/13

Trey, you explained 'Amazing Grace' the best. I can see it the way you explained if that is the way the writer felt.

Now, do you want to try to explain 'Mary did you know?' to me?
---Nikki on 3/19/13

Trey, that was a great post. And so very very true. How often we talk about Grace in a doctrinal tone, yet so medicinal in application of words we argue about here non stop. Grace is the very life of Christ in you experienced in such intimacy, that it gave heart to two songs we know of, both stated here, that was birthed out of KNOWING and experiencing that GRACE.

Thank you trey for your post.

I feel that way about the cross, as I can't separate the two. Grace and mercy can't be separated either, and it's knowing that mercy, one can sing about Grace. We should sing more about it and argue less about it.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

How precious did that Grace appear The hour I first believed.----(Which is the problem. The grace was sweet before the hour he believed).
---Nikki on 3/19/13

Nikki, to John Newton, grace became sweet when he first believed. Before he believed grace meant nothing to him. It's like a man trying ice cream for the first time. He doesn't know how good it is until he takes a bite. The ice cream was alway delicious, but the man didn't know it.

God's grace was wonderous before the foundation of the world, but man didn't know it until he experienced it.
---trey on 3/19/13

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Scott1, yes, but I don't have a problem with blind and sight as Kathr suggest.
It seems he is saying the grace is precious once he notice the grace as if it is only precious due to his action. But, I can see your point.

Since you are willing to discuss this in a adult calm manner, can I ask you about another song?
What does the singer mean when he sings 'Mary did you know?'
Michael English made it famous years ago. Have you heard of this song?
It seems to suggest, Mary is surpised about Jesus' status.

Plus, What do you mean by full portion of grace?
---Nikki on 3/19/13

Nikki, well if the subject was "Mary" and "a song", I was never talking about that in the first place. And that was never the question in teh blog question to begin with.

Maybe YOU TRIED TO change the subject???...and I just didn't fall for it!

Thank you Scott1!
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

How precious did that Grace appear The hour I first believed.----(Which is the problem. The grace was sweet before the hour he believed).
---Nikki on 3/19/13

he is not saying that. "The hour I first believed" means that we get full portion of grace from the beginning of faith in Jesus. The persona of the singer is reflecting on the old person (blind, lost) and the new person (see, found) and that God brought sight, comfort immediately.
Please explain your thoughts
---Scott1 on 3/19/13

\Nikki, although I do know the words of the Other Amazing Grace, let's remember songs written by MAN are not Scripture\\

That goes for what you post here, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/13

Thank you, Cluny.
Kathr keeps changing the subject. She knows I didn't claim Amazing Grace was Scripture.
---Nikki on 3/19/13

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Cluny, that goes for what anyone writes here including YOU, that is based on feeling or the doctrines of man and not scripture.

So your smart aleck reply was not necessary unless you just like to see your sarcasm in print. Either way, it still isn't scripture.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

\\Nikki, although I do know the words of the Other Amazing Grace, let's remember songs written by MAN are not Scripture\\

That goes for what you post here, kathr.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/19/13

Nikki, although I do know the words of the Other Amazing Grace, let's remember songs written by MAN are not Scripture.

There are many songs that are not scripturally sound. So, that is just one person's view and feeling. We also don't know what was going on inside him at the time he wrote that. My understanding was, he was already a saved man trafficing in slavery until the Lord totally convicted him of such a sin.

There is also a Movie "Amazing Grace" based on that very song.

I'll find the background of the other.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

How precious did that Grace appear The hour I first believed.----(Which is the problem. The grace was sweet before the hour he believed).
---Nikki on 3/19/13

Yes Nikki, Salvation was first promised in Genesis 3:15.

How exactly does GRACE APPEAR? What's APPEARING? What exactly did he SEE? Does it say he saw something first and then believed? Or did he say he believed something and then saw? OR did he see and believe all at that same moment? Did he see the Cross and how Jesus died for our sin? Amazing Grace "how sweet the SOUND" that saved a wretch like me???? Did the Sound save him? OR Does that mean he HEARD something first, the SOUND of WORDS the sound of the Gospel OF GRACE?
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

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Brothers Seg and MarkV, you're witnessing to people who strongly believe that God left some "amount of faith" in the man after the devastation in the garden, to justify their "free-will".

They cannot believe, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". Paul was underlining the very state of the soul and spirit here and not the flesh.

Rather believing the Word of God that's testifying and witnessing to them that they are "DEAD in sins and trespass", they kick and scream they're not. Faith to them comes from within, whereas those saved by grace will acknowledge that it was from without.
---christan on 3/18/13

Kathr4453, I don't know who wrote your song of Amazing Grace, because it isn't the original song. But, I am glad you all changed the words. Someone was paying attention at your Church.

The original song is : Amazing Grace, That saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now I see. T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.

How precious did that Grace appear The hour I first believed.----(Which is the problem. The grace was sweet before the hour he believed).
---Nikki on 3/19/13

TheSeg, correct, CHOOSE life or death.

To choose life in Christ is to choose death here. God does not make that choice for you. To be crucified with Christ is to also be crucified to this world. Many want you to believe God forced you to pick up your cross and forces you to follow Him.

The TRUE Christian life Is a difficult one,..persecution , trials, etc, and that can't be FORCED on one against their will. It takes the total surrender of one's WILL WILLINGLY.

Romans 12:1-2 I BESEECH you therefore brethren, to present yourselves a living sacrifice.....SO even after salvation we are STILL asked to surrender our WILL. " YOURSELF, IS YOUR WILL. ". If we have no free will, no such verses would be in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/13

We are not even told they were even old enough to understand what they were being told
---Peter on 3/18/13

Peter, one can speculate all they want, but to inject what is not there is not how to rightly divide the word of truth.

Maybe the household pets were considered part of the household too, and .....

But I can't imagine Peter or any of the Apostles baptizing anyone just because Cornelius received Christ. No other scripture backs up such a claim that anyone anywhere was Baptized just because .

Maybe that is how the Calvinists or RCC do it, but not how the Anna-baptists did. Actually Calvin had Anna-baptists killed over believers baptism vs infant baptism.
---kathr4463 on 3/18/13

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\\....(Acts 16:33) - and we are NOT told that everyone in his family had believed, only that the word was preached to them\\
---Peter on 3/18/13


If you read verse 34, most translations say that he rejoiced, and believed in God with His entire household.

Although, some translations say that his whole household rejoiced that he believed in God

The Greeks "means" that he was glad that all his house had believed in God

There are no he or him or his in this verse because verses 33 and 34 are one sentence

Literally, it says

"was glad whole house had trusted in God"
---James_L on 3/18/13

(God never forces anyone to (be one with/love) Him.)

That's another thing that gets me!
And this is said, by so many! Yet from the very beginning seems to me.
This is all God has been doing, try to force his love on you, and you don't want it!

I'll take the other choice. What other choice? There is no other choice!
And even after he said, as I live, said the Lord!
Every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

God never forces anyone!
He's taking you by the hand and leading you to water, and you're going to tell God, I'm not drinking.

You're on a cliff!
Wait, my choices are Life or Death.
Yea that's right!
---TheSeg on 3/18/13

It seems that many hear do not want to answer the question.

I have preached the Gospel to many and I point out that there is many parts of the Bible that can be proved. Also there is much fulfilled Prophecy in and from the Bible that shows it to be true. Much of the Bible also shows truth in the way people are and what we act like.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/13

Suppose you travel to India where English is one of the official laguages (I believe they have 18 official languages) to an area where Hinduism is the religion of the area.
How would you convice those that only faith in Jesus can bring them salvation???
How would you start??
---1st_cliff on 3/18/13

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Kathr4453: 'Baptism before personal faith in Jesus Christ will NEVER save anyone'

Quite likely.

However, the idea of baptising everyone in a family existed in the Bible (Acts 16:33) - and we are NOT told that everyone in his family had believed, only that the word was preached to them

We are not even told they were even old enough to understand what they were being told
---Peter on 3/18/13

Nikki, no attack mode. Seems as though you were right out of the gate.

I don't sing songs about Mary Nikki, I sing about Jesus. Mary is /was not a perpetual virgin. She had other children after the birth of Jesus.

Now you have heard of the reformation I'm sure where began Protestantism, that is defined as TO PROTEST Catholicism.

Burning one at the stake UNLESS they repented and converted to RCC is NOT rape?

Besides as the Body of Christ is that UNION with Christ as in marriage, yes, God never forces anyone to be ONE with Him.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13

nikki, the "Amazing Grace" I sing is this,,

Amazing Grace will always be my song of Praise,
For it was GRACE that bought my liberty, (Through Calvary...not election)
I'll never know just why He came to Love me so,
He looked beyond my fault and saw my need.

I will FOREVER lift mine eyes to Calvary
To view the Cross where Jesus died for me,
I'll never know just why He came to love me so,
He looked beying my fault and saw my need.

He saw the NEED FOR ALL MANKIND in bondage to sin and death. Hebrews 2

So there it is, not one iota of forced entry here. Just praise that Jesus died for my sin and that I found LIBERTY in being crucified with Christ and raised a New Creature.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13

kathr4453, relax, you are in attack mode you don't even read a person's blog before answering it.
WHO'S TALKING ABOUT RAPE??? What are you talking about?
Read my blog again.
I am talking about the song 'Mary did you know?'. Do you know that song before answering? Google it first and read the words.
The song is talking about was Mary surprise about being the Mother of Jesus and all her pain she will endure.
When I spoke about God forcing Himself, I am saying Mary has free will.

Rememeber, it is the Catholic Church who states Mary is forever Virgin. Before, during and after Christ's birth.
No mention of rape.
---Nikki on 3/18/13

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really Nikki, you believe your salvation is God forcing Himself on you? I'm sorry, but a VIRGIN was prophesied in the OT. However your personal salvation was never prophesied.

Isaac never forced himself on Rebecca. AND the CHURCH is that which identified with Isaac. And Abraham told his servant, if she does not go with you or they do not receive you DO NOT GO THERE AGAIN. So much for forced entry.

So Nikki, your husband raped you FIRST and then married you...and you call this God's way of doing things? You must be nothing more than a blow up doll, no brains and full of air, unable to say YES OR NO.
OH and The Holy Spirit is not a Sacrement! Neither Is God or Jesus Christ.

Stop playing mind twister.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13


Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Now I'm not saying this is a work, only because faith is given!
And if faith given, how then, can you choose it?

How then can it be your work, if it was given you?
So it not your work, it's the work of God!
I am with that!

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And the Word was made flesh, which is Christ!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Christ is God!

So then, do I choose to believe?
God bless Peace!
---TheSeg on 3/18/13

SOOOOOO Nikki, I totally disagree with you and your doctrine of WORKS called sacraments. There are no sacraments in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13

Do you even know what Sacrament means? I guess not.
Sacrament means GOD'S WORK.
The work of the Holy Spirit.
So you totally disagree with the Holy Spirit?

I know you sing Amazing Grace. I asked you to read it. Read it slowly. Who is blind? You sing a song and don't realize what you are singing.

Read it first before singing it.
That song implies you have to act first before God acts.

I bet you don't know about 'Mary did you know' either?
That song implies God didn't ask Mary and forced Himself on her.
---Nikki on 3/18/13

markv, markv ,markv, how many times does scripture tell us FAITH IS NOT WORKS.

Why can't you read and comprehend? What is wrong with you? ARE you stupid? Are you Autistic, or have Ausbergers syndrom. Only repeating what others tell you, having no abuility to THINK and REASON?

Try reading Romans 10. See teh difference between faith and WORKS. There are no other comparisons in SCRIPTURE.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13

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"Life is one big theatrical play of robots!" 1stCliff

If you want to put it that way, that's fine with me. But the problem you have with this "play" is that it's for real. Do robots have a soul like you and I? Do robots commit sin like you and I?

"the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it" Isaiah 46:11.

This declaration by the Lord does not need any interpretation or commentary to explain what it means. It simply says what it says, that God is in control of the man, so much for your "free-will". Just remember, robots don't go to hell, unbelievers do.
---christan on 3/18/13

Romans 3:11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Phillipians 2:21..for all seek their own, not the things that are Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 3/18/13

Kathr, you contradict your own words.
"Faith certainly is a choice one makes." When we put our faith in someone else, we made that choice." Here you indicate we make a choice.
Then say, " Some put..... however put their faith in Jesus Christ to save them. "Those are the ones who know they cannot save themselves." If you know you cannot save yourself how can you say you make the choice? If you make the choice then you did save yourself by your own works.
But faith comes from God,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, "and this is not your own doing" it is the gift of God-not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).
---Mark_V. on 3/18/13

Salvation is a gift. That's why we baptize babies. It is impossible to find God without God making the first move.

Ever sang 'Amazing Grace'? Please re-read the words to that song.
See if you can find out what is wrong in that song.
---Nikki on 3/17/13

Nikki, oh yes, I sing amazing Grace....the CROSS is so amazing isn't it? Yet I was baptized AFTER I received Jesus Christ, knowing fll well why I was baptized. Baptism before personal faith in Jesus Christ will NEVER save anyone. Your water is just water. I was saved by Jesus Death and resurrection.

SOOOOOO Nikki, I totally disagree with you and your doctrine of WORKS called sacraments. There are no sacraments in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/13

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Kathr4453, The RCC has always and still states God does the choosing not us.
You seem to think it is all up to you to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. No, God gave you the grace to accept Him.
Salvation is a gift. That's why we baptize babies. It is impossible to find God without God making the first move.

Ever sang 'Amazing Grace'? Please re-read the words to that song.
See if you can find out what is wrong in that song.
---Nikki on 3/17/13

\\Well 1stCliff, many chose RCC doctrine, some Mormonism, etc, but those choices were not based on truth, but on man.\\

The same can be said about your docterines, kathr.

They are based on men.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/17/13

Love wins, Actually "gospel" simply means "good news"
It's the good news of "what**" that has to be explained to prospective converts!

**Good news that man actually has the opportunity to live forever even if he dies (thanks to the resurrection promise of Christ)
---1st_cliff on 3/17/13

When the prodigal son decided to return to the family he'd been born into, he choose to return because he'd chosen to leave.

That is my background. I'd been born of Christian parents, been taken to church. Water baptised without me having a choice about it.

When I got old enough I chose to be a sinner in the world. Then later I was drawn back to God and Christianity, and I chose to return.

I chose being loved by God and Jesus who loved me and gave himself for me. I have not and will not ever regret my choice.
---jan4378 on 3/17/13

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For all those who don't believe in "free will" best start a lobby group to open the prisons and free the inmates because they had no choise but to murder,steal, rape,embezzle,scam,assault,torure etc.. Jailing them is an injustice!
It's this kind of nonsense that turn people off Christianity if one must subscribe to a belief system of this nature!
It's this kind of belief that snuck in the back door,one of satan's gimmicks!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/13

If you had not heard the gospel before, why would you choose Christianity?
---1st_cliff on 3/16/13

1: If you were not a christian, you would have first to believe certain prophecies from the bible

2: Then you would have to believe that the bible is the word of God

3: then you would have to believe what the bible says about Jesus

Many people have heard the story of Jesus, and of the nation of Israel and what God did for them.

They themselves have their own prophets, and own creation stories, and their own messiah.

there are people from every religion that can tell you have they were healed, and delivered by their god
---francis on 3/17/13

"If you had not heard the gospel before, why would you choose Christianity?"
Yes "why would you choose Christianity If you had not heard the gospel before?" The answer of course is you would not, for there would be no basis for the choice.
---joseph on 3/17/13

Leon, I am glad you put me on the same bus as Christan, it is a short bus but I am not driving, God is. I do not want to be on the bus your in, heading to the wide gate in a big bus.
For your information, just so that you can never tell God no one told you, "all of God's elect that He has chosen, before the foundation of the world, will hear the gospel Truth, they will belief it and will commit their lives to Christ. You know why? because
"Knowning beloved brethren, your election by God for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance..." (1 Thess. 1:4,5).
---Mark_V. on 3/17/13

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Christian,Are you for real??
Adam and Eve had no choice but to sin?? I ask you ,does it get any dumber than this???
Life is one big theatrical play of robots!Climaxed by God killing His own son for shock value!
Don't bother reading the scriptures that say
"Choose life that you may live'
OR "pick up your cross and follow me"
or "whosoever will"
or "whosoever believeth"" etc, etc!
---1st_cliff on 3/17/13

Well 1stCliff, many chose RCC doctrine, some Mormonism, etc, but those choices were not based on truth, but on man.

The preaching of the CROSS is the Power of God unto salvation.

Faith certainly is a choice one makes. When we put our faith in someone else, we made that choice. Some put their faith in Joseph Smith, or Mohammed.

Others however put their faith in Jesus Christ to save them. Those are the ones who know they cannot save themselves.

The word of God is living and powerful and stronger than a two edge sword. The Word of man is powerless.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/13

You've asked an old question.

As one Orthodox priest put it, you have to decide "Why Jesus?" before you deal with the question, "Which Church?"

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/16/13

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