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Explain The Law For Today

Please explain the difference between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant and where does the Law fit in?

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 ---trey on 3/18/13
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Elohyim tells by His Word about the nation of people (Israel) who He chose as witness to reveal Himself, His covenant and His plan of Redemption for the fallen world.Isa 43
1st covenant- outline and history of His people, Israel
2nd covenant- does not eliminate the first or Israel, but unfolds all the nations of earth being reach and taught redemption through Christ and the continuing relationship between Israel and Elohyim.

All the nations other then Israel,

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature, rather serve one another in love.Gal 5:13

Eph 2:11-22,Gal 3:14,16,29,Rom 11:17-24

Living life through the Torah Instructions:
1 Peter 2:21-25
---char on 3/25/13


Francis, jerry, Samuelbb7. Many here have shared the gospel of grace with you guys to help you, because to follow SDA doctrine is only opposing yourself.

2Tim 2:25-26
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves, if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth,
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

God loves you and calls upon you guys to repent of your dead works and instead to believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 3/25/13


No francis nonsense is, God creating everything perfect in the beginning.
To then destroy everything he made perfect, to create it again!
This is real nonsense!

In spite of God himself, not I mind you, but God!
Calling everything Good, not perfect just good.
This is also real nonsense, to you!

Because you can't see the reason, you can't see the good in it.
So you make up your own reasoning to justify your good.

I don't blame you, because!
To whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Therefore they could not believe, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/25/13


---TheSeg on 3/24/13
can't help you, just keep posting nonesence like you do, joing leej, haz, and mar_V
---francis on 3/25/13


Nana - I think you are getting some understanding of what Paul situation was.

Romans 7:25, 8:1-2 So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to Gods law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

Howbeit we are STILL RESPONSIBLE for what we do in the flesh.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13




jerry6593. Your post shows that you DON'T KEEP the law and you misunderstand Rom 7.

Rom 7:24 "who shall DELIVER me from the body of this death?
Answer: Rom 7:25 Jesus Christ.

Delivered from what?
Rom 7:6, Rom 8:2 tells us. It's the LAW.

"with the mind I myself serve the law of God,"
The "mind" speaks of the Spirit. See Eph 4:23. Confirmed by Rom 8:9 We're in the Spirit.

Christians are NOT in the flesh, Rom 8:9 To be in the flesh is to serve the law of sin, which is seeking to be made perfect by the flesh through the law (such as SDA's teach)
---Haz27 on 3/24/13


Jerry crows "Why don't you ask Paul? (why he was unable to keep perfectly the law.
e.lee7537 on 3/24/13

Paul said why, "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." Of course he was not speaking of church members, he was speaking of his flesh.
"For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." By walking in the spirit, by the doers. Romans 2:13
---Nana on 3/24/13


Jerry crows "Why don't you ask Paul? (why he was unable to keep perfectly the law.

Perhaps the Adventist would like to tell us that they have the great great great Ellen White, a prophetess who was far far far greater than Paul.

Frankly, they deceive themselves believing they can obey the law and thus merit eternal life. And this is from their bull dung Investigative Judgment theory.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


Haz: "jerry6593. If you have the law written on your heart then why DON'T you PERFECTLY keep the law?"

Why don't you ask Paul?

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Unlike Paul, you war against the Law with your mind as well as your flesh.




---jerry6593 on 3/24/13


If you expand from context, you can find sound doctrine, here
maybe you will!
I meant to say "maybe you can!"

You went from God calling them good, which is what God said!
To God calling (all of them) perfect this is what you said!
To somehow now calling them holy, God like!

Yes, good sound doctrine! Well then if this is your doctrine.
Everywhere the word holy is used to you should mean, perfect, holy, God like!
But none the less words perfect, holy or God like are not used.
The word good, clearly is!

Being perfect in your ways, is not saying you were created perfect.
You're on the road the road looks Perfectly Straight!
Because the turn up ahead is still hidden!
---TheSeg on 3/24/13




jerry6593. If you have the law written on your heart then why DON'T you PERFECTLY keep the law?

From the day you received Christ you would have had the law written on your heart. Hence from that day onwards you should have been PERFECTLY obeying the law in your physical behavior.
Have you done this?

We know your answer is, NO.

Does that mean you don't have the law written on your heart or is it that you are following false doctrine that is leading you into righteousness by works of the law/unbelief?
---Haz27 on 3/24/13


Leeast [Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:]:

"Investigative Judgment theory which you may not know is purely 100 percent a judgment based on works for ones eternal salvation."

Rev 20:12 ... and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their WORKS.

"Yes, that which would fulfill His law has been written onto my heart"

Bunk! This is the New Covenant.....

Heb 8:8 I will put MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts

Your problem is that you just don't believe the Bible!


---jerry6593 on 3/24/13


seg, Jesus Christ never never had sin. He was the perfect Lamb of God. I just read where someone said He had sin in Him. I know you didn't say it but just noticed it. doctrine and context is most important of God's Word. my bible has so much within the pages, its hard sometimes to get a grip.
---shira4368 on 3/24/13


francis, said:
he was perfect until sin was found in him
so for a grown up, perfection is being without sin
use more of the bible, not just one verse
move beyond context and into doctrine

notice that God never teaches context, as context always changes. God teaches doctrine as doctrine never changes/ 3/21/13
look at all the bible says about holy: 3/22/13

So then what your doctrine here?
Holy, only means perfect/sinless, sometimes!
Like when you want it too?

Deu_7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God:
So all these people, are holy! I mean thats what God said here.
Are they holy, perfect before God?

If you expand from context, you can find sound doctrine, here
Maybe you will!
---TheSeg on 3/23/13


Luk_2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord,)
---TheSeg on 3/22/13
All of Israel are to dedicate their first born male to God to serve in the sanctuary

But because of the sin whereby Aaron made the golden calf and only Levites stood for God, the levites are chosen as priest, and Israel must pay a fee to the Levites, so that the Levites can do the work that the first born should be doing

So here you would get that the first born male is holy: that is separated for use by God

I know that you can be better if you think about what you are posting in context and then expand it to doctrine
---francis on 3/23/13


Jerry //Back to the blog question. Since you claim to be under the New Covenant, do you have the Law written in your heart?

Yes, that which would fulfill His law has been written onto my heart as well as all true believers.

And what fulfills the law? Likely you do not know.

Romans 13:9 The commandments, You shall not commit adultery, not murder, not steal, not covet, and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Interesting that I read that olde Ellen the snake believed the Sabbath commandment was the most important of all.

But all she could do when she was not copying the works of others was to "peep and mutter" Isaiah 8:19
---e.lee7537 on 3/23/13


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Jerry boy//Who said anything about "earning salvation"?

We assume that you being an Adventists truly believe in one of the pillars of Adventism, namely their Investigative Judgment theory which you may not know is purely 100 percent a judgment based on works for ones eternal salvation.

If you do not believe in Ellen, then you are a heretic in the eyes of your church.

Ellen as you may not believe, while not copying from the works of others, did nothing except 'peep and mutter". And that is what Isaiah 9:18 tells us.
---e.lee7537 on 3/23/13


Leeast: "Agree that we do not strive to earn our salvation by works."

Who said anything about "earning salvation"? There's a difference between trying to earn salvation and choosing to obey someone you love. You wear your disobedience (sin) as a badge of honor, as if mere mental assent to the existence of God is sufficient to "earn your salvation", while loudly proclaiming your right to disobey.

Back to the blog question. Since you claim to be under the New Covenant, do you have the Law written in your heart?



---jerry6593 on 3/23/13


Your right francis you have two very good points!
But if we as man, are going to expand, as we see fit!

Then let's expand!
Luk_2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord,)

I believe until God said let there be light, there was no light!
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

1Sa_2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

But hay, believe what you want!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/22/13


Cluny,

Now you are changing the point from Christ choosing not to sin to Christ choosing to follow the will of God the Father.

Why don't you try again!
---trey on 3/22/13


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"Repent of your sins and turn away from them if you expect to go to heaven! GO AND SIN NO MORE!" jerry6593

O wow! This was spoken of by the Son of God to a sinner. Never in Scriptures were these words even been repeated and used of by any of God's prophets or apostles to the people they were preaching to. Anyways, how does a sinner tell another sinner, "GO AND SIN NO MORE!"???

Heard of, "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Are you God?
---christan on 3/22/13


Jerry //All your anti-SDA hate speech does not change the fact that you are QUITTERS.

Agree that we do not strive to earn our salvation by works.

Your battle is really with the Word of God -

Romans 4:3-6,8 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness. Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.
---e.lee7537 on 3/22/13


---TheSeg on 3/21/13
Here are some more

Mat 25:31 the holy angels
2Pe 1:21 holy men of God
1King 8:4 the holy vessels
Exd 28:38 the holy things holy gifts
Psa 5:7 thy holy temple
Isa 52:1 the holy city
Isa 58:13 my holy day

I would like to read more from you, even share with you even if we do not agree. What I do not like is that your post seems to be too lacking in overall knowledge of the word of God

There are some people I expect to see Good post from
Strongeaxe, jerry, Samuelbb7 gordon, -kathr4453, Jed, 1st_cliff, AKA,RICHARDC,Follower_of_Christ
James_L, and a few others. I may not agree with them all, but I like to see a well thought out post. I want to see that from you also
---francis on 3/22/13


Never mind Chris! Like your nagging buddy Mark, you are one of those deranged people who "don't know they don't know". Trying to reason with you two is like trying to sensibly dialogue with the mentally ill. It's just not going to happen since you guys clearly aren't in your right minds!
---Leon on 3/22/13


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Now he's calling them perfect and Holy!
Who is the only Holy One, Rev_15:4!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/21/13
This is my point exactly
You jump on one context

look at all thebible says about holy:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake

If you exand from context, you can find sound doctrine

remember context always changes, here are two differnt context, but we can use both of them to form one solid doctrien of what it means to be holy: Seperated for use by God

Let me ask, should i expect more or less from you?
---francis on 3/22/13


Cluny
Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one.
Please explain how one can have two different will.

The will of my father is my will!
I and my Father are one!

Now many believe they are two different persons.
See, I don't, I believe he was God with us.
His will is the father will! So there is no other choice, but to do his will.
And that's what he did!

But, who I'm I, to say different, believe what you will.
After all it's your choice!
Love you
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/22/13


Yes francis I heard what you believe.
But I have to go by what my Lord said, and I would think any man of God would do the same or at lease listen to Christ the Lord, the Son of God, who was there!

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer (from the beginning,)
{What does francis know of the beginning?}

(and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.)
{I didn't say this you're Lord did. But you want to believe he's perfect and Holy!)

When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of(to) his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/22/13


Samuelbb7, you said: "my answer is that no one ever perfectly keeps the Ten Commandments."

Do you also accept that PARTIAL obedience is NOT the same as KEEPING the law (which means PERFECTLY, James 2:10)?

As you admit that NOBODY KEEPS the law/10C then why do SDA's then insist we need to KEEP the law/10C?
Our righteousness and salvation is NOT determined by keeping the law/10C. Instead our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

Francis condemns others based on their not keeping the law/10C. He says "No, No, No" to their salvation. Do you agree with Francis that this is SDA doctrine?
---Haz27 on 3/22/13


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\\But, no! Christ didn't have a choice!\\

Yes, He did.

\\He was send here to do, the father will. That's all!\\

And He FREELY CHOSE to do so. As He willingly prayed, "Not as I will, but as YOU will."

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/22/13


Leest & Haz: All your anti-SDA hate speech does not change the fact that you are QUITTERS. Unlike Paul, whom you cite for your license to sin, you refuse to even run the race for the prize as he did. Instead, you lie down at the starting line and whimper "I can't win, so why should I try." Heaven will be filled with FORMER sinners such as the adulteress of "go and sin no more" fame, but not one unrepententant actively willful sinner will make it.

Repent of your sins and turn away from them if you expect to go to heaven! GO AND SIN NO MORE!



---jerry6593 on 3/22/13


I know to a lot of you, it might look like Christ had a choice. You guys even say "he had a choice!"
But, no! Christ didn't have a choice!

He was send here to do, the father will. That's all!
And that all he could do, the will of his father. Joh_5:19, Joh_5:30!

You can't say he choose to do his father will. Joh_10:30!
He had no choice, but to do the will of the father.

Now francis said:
Now if we define holy as being without sin, as the (angels are), and as (Adam was) when he was first created, as (Lucifer was) when he was first created

Now he's calling them perfect and Holy!
Who is the only Holy One, Rev_15:4!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/21/13


No francis, I would rather not think, but know what is said!
Gen_1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
---TheSeg on 3/21/13

If you grew up, you would also see this
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee

he was perfect until sin was found in him

so for a grown up, perfection is being without sin

use more of the bible, not just one verse

move beyond context and into doctrine

notice that God never teaches context, as context always changes. God teaches doctrine as doctrine never changes
---francis on 3/21/13


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Haz2//The SDA tactic of avoiding discussion on this contradiction only invalidates their doctrine.
---
We read in Romans 7:19 that even the Apostle Paul concluded that he could not observe all the law all the time. So how could SDAs believe they can succeed while he was unable to?

"For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing."

Apparently Adventist pastors do much to deceive their own followers into believing they can be like Jesus in obeying all the law all the time.

Again, Jerry, Francis and the other Sabbaterians will be silent.
---e.lee7537 on 3/21/13


Think about what it means that Adam was created in the Image of God, was Adam then just very good or perfect (without sin)
francis

Think about what it means!
No francis, I would rather not think, but know what is said!
Gen_1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

At no time does God call anything perfect.
Not Heaven, nor the earth, nor in all the host of them.
This is what the bible says!

Nothing could be made perfect without receiving Christ, nothing!
You can end this, just show me where he said I created this perfect!
This is/was perfect!

But you can't, it's just not there!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/21/13


those that have the indwelling Holy Spirit have that to guide them.
---e.lee7537 on 3/21/13
If that is true why do billions of " christians" make graven images of Jesus, Mary and Joseph and bow before then every Sunday, is that the work of the holy spirit

Also why do billions more keep Sunday as a Sabbath and day of rest when THE LAW which you say you do not need says: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God

Is Christ divided?
Clearly it is another spirit that leads people away from the law of God

What the Holy Spirit does is lead us into truth
---francis on 3/21/13


francis, leon and nana, every verses you post to justify your "free-will" is after the fall of Adam and Eve, which is explicitly clear to even a grade 1 student that everyone born after are now born in sin and trespass on the account of Adam's sin.

Confirmed here, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12

and also, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Romans 3:10,11

And you want me to believe you still are free to do as you please? Right, you do what you do only in your sins and trespass!
---christan on 3/21/13


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Dear Haz you set up a straw man of something we Seventh day Adventist do not say and then challenge us to answer it.

Well my answer is that no one ever perfectly keeps the Ten Commandments. JESUS was the only one to keep all the laws completely. We are saved by Grace alone because we cannot save ourselves. Try Reading all of Romans 3.

What we say is that love compels us to follow the Ten Commandments because they are love in action. Each day we are to submit to the HOLY SPIRIT to be more like JESUS.

What we oppose is those who say you can live in hatred and purposely flouting the Ten Commandments and still go to heaven. See all of First John.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/13


The HOLY SPIRIT leads us to walk in love. The ten Commandments are about what Love acts like. So to oppose the Ten Commandments is to support hatred and oppose love. This the HOLY SPIRIT would never do.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/13


Acts 2:16_17 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel,
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" (Joel 2:28_29)

Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:".

e.lee7537,
That is the word of God, not a matter of which is better.
---Nana on 3/21/13


Leon, you're a perfect example of the word "confused & deceived", if ever another definition is needed. And it's because of the things you say. Here, I'll demonstrate:

You said: "Jesus "willingly chose" to do the will of the Father." You twist and turn Scripture on its head. This is precisely what Christ declared: "For I came down from heaven, NOT TO DO MINE OWN WILL, but the will of him that sent me." See the difference between the truth and a lie? You lie!

And you add on to your lies by saying: "John 6:38 clearly "implies" no one's "free will" over powers the will of God." No where in John 6:38 does it imply what your a advocating.
---christan on 3/21/13


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jerry6593. Thanks for your reply in other blog.
But it didn't really answer my question.

To say "I TRIED to keep the law/10C" is NOT the same as saying "I KEEP the law/10C".

So as the SDA's add that only those who KEEP the law will be saved, then where does that leave the likes of yourself, since you do NOT PERFECTLY KEEP the law?
PARTIAL obedience is NOT KEEPING the law.
Scripture does NOT say those who at least try with partial obedience will make it.

The SDA tactic of avoiding discussion on this contradiction only invalidates their doctrine.
---Haz27 on 3/21/13


Nana//The law for today? A man must have the law written in his heart which will then guide him to do fulfill it and God will consider him just thereof.

---
While Sabbaterians truly NEED THE LAW to guide them, those that have the indwelling Holy Spirit have that to guide them. Of course, the Holy Spirit is the Word that has been laid onto the hearts of believers.

Let's face the facts, not everyone knows all the law which may take a lifetime to learn.

It is the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9) versus the ministry of the Spirit. (3:8).

Which is better?
---e.lee7537 on 3/21/13


Paul tell us the God does not have the ability to lie. It is not his nature. Again his nature is to be holy. He does not have the ability to sin.
---trey on 3/21/13
I like your statements

But Christ was tempted
Christ came in the form of a man
Christ had human nature

Now if we define holy as being without sin, as the angels are, and as Adam was when he was first created, as Lucifer was when he was first created, we understand that all beins have free will, and can choose to sin

Jesus also had free will, but choose to do his fathers will
---francis on 3/21/13


Romans 2:13_15 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)


The law for today? A man must have the law written in his heart which will then guide him to do fulfill it and God will consider him just thereof.
---Nana on 3/21/13


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"...neither...Ez. 28:15, Phil. 2:7 & 2 Pt. 1:4...contains the word "choose" nor do those verses impl[y] or teach "free-will"....Phil. 2:7... Christ declared, "For I came down from heaven, NOT TO DO MINE OWN WILL, but the will of Him that sent me." [Implication: Jesus had a "willing choice" in the matter]. John 6:38...Jesus taught His sheep, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
---christan on 3/20/13


Chris: You "willingly choose" to not understand: 1.) Jesus "willingly chose" to do the will of the Father. 2.) John 6:38 clearly "implies" no one's "free will" over powers the will of God.
---Leon on 3/21/13


I still want to visit the point the "Christ chose not to sin!". If we understand who Christ is we understand that Christ, being God, does not have the capability to sin. His very nature is to be holy!

Tit1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began,

Paul tell us the God does not have the ability to lie. It is not his nature. Again his nature is to be holy. He does not have the ability to sin.

Jas1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

James tells us that with God there is no variableness, i.e. there is no changing. He is consistently holy.
---trey on 3/21/13


---TheSeg on 3/20/13
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee

That is from the bible. And it is true.
i woudl like to see you grow up a litle.
Search the entire bible before you post

Think about what It means that Adam was created in the Image of God, was Adam then just very good or perfect ( without sin)



---christan on 3/20/13
Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Do you think that they were doing God's will or their own will?
---francis on 3/21/13


"FREE WILL means we can choose what we want sin or obedience, just as lucifer, just as Jesus just as Adam." francis

Here's your STUMBLING BLOCK: neither of the verses quoted in Ezekiel 28:15, Philippians 2:7 and 2 Peter 1:4 even contains the word "choose" nor do those verses implies or teaches "free-will".

With regards to Philippians 2:7, this is what Christ declared, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me." John 6:38 - which is in complete contrast of your understanding.

Jesus taught His sheep, "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
---christan on 3/20/13


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Trey: I have asked this same question multiple times on this website, without a satisfactory answer. Many claim that the New Covenant FREES them from the Law, but the scriptures claim that those of the NC must have God's Law written on their heart.

God's Law is the Ten Commandments. He wrote them with His own finger in stone, and had them placed inside the Arc of the COVENANT. Moses' laws were written on scrolls and placed beside the Arc. There's still a copy of the 10C in heaven under the throne of God. The earthly sanctuary was a copy of the heavenly.



---jerry6593 on 3/21/13


Lucifer is the result of rebellion. he wanted all the glory. he wanted to be god. he talked a bunch of angels into ganging up to overthrow the throne. In the end, he will loose again, for good this time.
---shira4368 on 3/20/13


francis, you say, "Lucifer CHOOSE to sin" and again I ask you to specifically show me a verse that says what you have just said. If you can't, it's prove you're adding on to the Word.

And when Haz27 asked you "So HOW do we DO righteousness?", you gave him a laundry list of your "ONLY ONE WAY". That's not how a Christian is perceived to be righteous before God. The verses you gave is only prove that one has already received the righteousness of Christ and not "HOW do we DO righteousness".

And this is how one receives righteousness from God, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!
---christan on 3/20/13


See Romans 2:14-16 for the answer to this question.
---Love.wins on 3/20/13


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francis, your post on the 13th is correct! I apologize for the attack.

Your post today, concerning Christ chosing to do good is incorrect! Christ being God, by his very nature does not choose to do good. He is good! He is sinless and holy - Heb 7:26. He is perfect!- Heb 4:15 He is God!!! Phil 2:6.
---trey on 3/20/13


Without God's influence man cannot do good.
---trey on 3/20/13

So HOW do we DO righteousness?
--Haz27 on 3/13/13

ONLY ONE WAY:

Romans 8:10 if Christ be in you,
Galatians 2:20 Christ liveth in me:
2 Peter 1:4 be partakers of the divine nature
Ephesians 3:16 be strengthened with might by CHRIST'S Spirit in the inner man,
Ephesians 3:17 Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Corinthians 13:5 Jesus Christ is in you,
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
---francis on 3/13/13

Still see a difference?
---francis on 3/20/13


//Please explain the difference between the New Covenant and the Old Covenant and where does the Law fit in?

I agree with the following stmt.

The Old Covenant was about sacrificial laws, such as sacrificial animals to cleans ones sins with their blood.
The New Covenant is about Jesus that was given to us to bring us true meaning of LOVE and to replace the old laws. Through Jesus Christ blood that He shed in the cross our sins are redeemed. When one believes in Jesus Christ one comes to know God personally and with His grace He forgives and cleanses our sins from our hearts
---e.lee7537 on 3/20/13


Thou was perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created
francis

And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

Everything that he had made and all the host of them!
But it only makes sense you would believe a lie.
The words are not lying to you.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Good luck with that!
---TheSeg on 3/20/13


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---christan on 3/19/13
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was perfect when he was created, had no sin, knew no sin, he was the very frst persom to sin.

Lucifer CHOOSE to sin

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Jesus came as a man, having human nature, and yet choose NOT to sin

2 Peter 1:4 that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,

We are given the DIVINE NATURE, and yet we CHOOSE to sin

FREE WILL means we can choose what we want sin or obedience,
just as lucifer, just as Jesus just as Adam
---francis on 3/20/13


francis, the point I was making centers around your statement of man's free will.

After the fall, we have a sin nature. Without God's influence man cannot do good. Unless God changes our heart we will continue to choose to sin.

1Cor2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jer17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mt7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
---trey on 3/20/13


LindaH, you seriously think that the blinding only "blinded part of Israel" and that God will show "mercy to the rest of the world"? Let me demonstrate to you how erroneous your thoughts are.

First and foremost, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief" is without exception. Look around you and tell me how many people actually belief in Christ? You want to tell me it's at least 50% of the world population? Get real! There are even more false christians than unbelievers you will ever know.

Not everyone will receive His mercy or hell's entrance will not be described as having a broad gate as taught by Christ in Matthew 7.
---christan on 3/20/13


TheSeg Grow up!
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets!
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture!
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Mat_5:46, Luk_6:32
Luk 6:38!

Love you
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/20/13


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Christan,

"For God hath concluded them all (blinded part of Israel, the topic of the previous 2 chapters) in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all (the rest of the world)."

I know you hate when things are shown IN CONTEXT, but youll just have to get over it.

You live in fantasy world where the words "you will reap what you sow" have no meaning. God WILL NOT be mocked!
---LindaH on 3/20/13


"... and yet he choose to sin, the bible never tells us why." francis

Neither did the Bible tell us "he choose to sin"! This is what the Bible told us, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." Isaiah 46:11 says it best, "... the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

Adam was not created "perfect" but "good" (there's a difference). And if Adam was created sinless and failed in obeying God's command in Genesis 2:17, what gives you the idea that we, who are born in sin can accomplish what Adam couldn't?
---christan on 3/19/13


--trey on 3/19/13
No trey, the difference between you and me seem to be that you use the straw man defense and I do not

examples:you posted:
"You see man as having the ability to never sin.

You see man as good but choosing to do evil."

So you built your straw man, then you burnt it down

Where did I post such a thing?

It would have been best to ask me if those are my views, rather than telling me my views ( which I did not post what you said) then telling me why they may be wrong

---TheSeg on 3/19/13
Grow up
---francis on 3/19/13


francis, I now understand why we disagree so dramatically. You see man as having the ability to never sin. I see man as not having the ability to please God until God does a work on him.

I see man as totally depraved. You see man as good but choosing to do evil. These two beliefs are polar opposites.

Without God drawing us we cannot choose to obey.

John6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Mt11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Has the Son revealed the Father to all men?
---trey on 3/19/13


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Adam was perfect!
francis

Yet at the end of creation God called (everything he created, good!)
Not perfect!

God must have been wrong because francis says, Adam was perfect!
Not part of the good God said he created!

So lets rewrite the bible:
Gen_1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good (except for Adam, he was perfect). And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

How about it, francis?
How many copy you want?
This is what youre saying Adam was just perfect!
God made something perfect and BOOM! Right in his face!

I found the words everybody is saved in my bible!
I wrote them on a paper and put them there, same thing.
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/19/13


---shira4368 on 3/19/13
not bad, not bad at all, keep trying

But men like John the Baptist was already filled with the spirit before Jesus died.

The question then is did anyone have to wait for the death of Jesus to have a change of heart and a new spirit?

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children


2 Kings 2:9 that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

2 Kings 2:15 The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha
---francis on 3/19/13


The easiest to explain is the Royal Law of Liberty: Love-Love the Lord your God and your neighbour.
This is the whole of the gospel. While we were yet sinners, God loved us enough to die for us. We love Him because he first loved us. We are known by our love one for another. By our fruits we are known. Our Good Shepherd knows His sheep and His sheep know and follow Him.
This Law does not come from the Ten Commandments, but from what some consider the Law of Moses, the Pentateuch.
The whole Old Testament is wrapped up in this Law as illustrated in the Mount of Transfiguration, where both the Law and the Prophets were conversing with our Great High Priest and in a moment all that was there was the embodiment of Love and Light Himself.
---micha9344 on 3/19/13


Do you even know why they couldn't obey to begin with? ---christan on 3/18/13

It is not a matter of could not, it is a matter of did not.

Adam was perfect, had no sin nature, never knew sin, and yet he choose to sin, the bible never tells us why.

We are given a hint of the reason why Satan sinned , ( coveted Jesus throne) but he was not created with a sin nature.

the answer is FREE WILL, to choose to obey or not

All beings are created with free will.
---francis on 3/19/13


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francis, the new spirit God was going to put in man's heart is sending His Son to die for all then when Jesus accended into heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit. only those who are born of the Spirit as the Spirit in their heart.
---shira4368 on 3/19/13


francis, for someone like you who "specializes" in the law of God, I'm surprised you specifically targeted Israel. Do you even know why they couldn't obey to begin with? Not only Israel but all of mankind! It's true that the complete law was given to Israel specifically for a purpose, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin".

The first law from God was commanded in the garden to our father Adam in Genesis 2:17, and we all know how that went down, prompting Paul to declare, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned".

Now you know why even Israel couldn't obey?
---christan on 3/18/13


The unique thing about the old agreement is that there is no promise of the Holy Spirit to help them obey, neither was the holy spirit requested by Israel

So now God takes it upon himself to make a new agreement. and in this agreement he promises us his spirit to enable us obey his voice / Law.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you, and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them:

2 Cor 3:3 written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
---francis on 3/18/13


Micha, good point. Pick one or two and explain how it fits with the New Covenant.
---trey on 3/18/13


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After israel had agreed to obey God and do all that God said, then God gave to them his laws.

They did not keep his laws.

Now here is the thing: Even if they had sinned, God would have still forgiven them as he showed in the sanctuary services

But they went as far as going after other gods and not confessing their sins
Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for [then] had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
---francis on 3/18/13


this is the Old Covenant which was broken by Israel

Exodus 19:5 if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people:

Exodus 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Simple basic covenant:
If they obey God and keep his covenants, then they will be his people, and he will be theri God.

They said yes , but did not obey him or keep his covenant
---francis on 3/18/13


Define what you mean by "the Law."
Ten Commandments?
Pentateuch?
the Two Royal Laws of Liberty?
or where they all fit into each of the convenants?
---micha9344 on 3/18/13


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