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Meaning Of Born Again

What does born again mean? Does it mean a person is born of the Spirit by God? Can a person believe in Christ, without the Spirit first changing the heart through regeneration, or can he believe with the same heart? Give Scripture

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"BUT I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART," Exodus 4:21

Did Pharaoh choose to harden his own heart? If anyone because of his "free-will" chooses to harden his own heart against God and knowing the consequence of such an act would send him to hell, then I will say the "free-will" theory is rather stupid or doesn't speak well for the "free-willer"?
---christan on 3/26/13

Christan,

" And when Pharaoh saw that the rain, the hail, and the thunder had ceased, he sinned yet more , and he hardened his heart , he and his servants."( Exodus 34:10)

Rememebr what James chapter 1 tell us:

"for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. " v 13
---Ruben on 3/26/13


Ruben, My Baptism did not save me, or wash away my sin. Now sin has no more POWER over me when I walk in the Spirit.

This is MY belief, and What I believe Peter was saying in 1Peter 3:20-21.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13

Kathr,

So many here have said they got baptize after I was saved, but baptism does not save, but why get baptize then if it means nothing?

Even Paul who we would say was save because of his encounter with Christ but yet Ananias tells him to "Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord." If baptism does not save why the order?

What is the purpose of baptism according to Ananias? To wash away his sins!!!!
---Ruben on 3/26/13


I hear of "BURN AGAIN" that being christians given over to pursuit of the flesh.
---Born on 3/26/13


Did Pharaoh choose to harden his own heart? Not according to the above verse, right?--christan on 3/26/13

No, because God didn't make it easy for Pharaoh to do the right thing. God withheld His graces, but Pharaoh did have free will.
He let the people go after the death of his son.
It took a lot to get through his thick skull. Pharaoh changed his mind again after God withholds His graces

If I serve you steak, you can eat it easier with teeth, or you can gum it until you swallow the meat. One way or another you will eat the steak. But, there are some who don't want to take the time to chew the steak without their teeth. But, because I didn't ground up the steak doesn't mean it is my fault they chose not to eat the steak.
---Nikki on 3/26/13


James L, you tell Christan:
"Why do you make the ignorant assumption that "free will" must be involved if faith precedes regeneration ??"
You know why? Because faith comes from God through regeneration. If you have faith before regeneration, it is your own not the one that comes from God that cleanses.
"So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, "purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8,9). And goes on to say,
"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they" (v. 15:11).
---Mark_V. on 3/26/13




Nikki, No, I am not in their company. I am crucified with Christ.

How is it we enter throught the veil, that is to say His Flesh? Hebrews 10!.

When we take communion it is "to remember His Death" until He comes.

Jesus never taught Cannibalism and was not teaching it here. Nor was he teaching that anyone, including the Apostles had some sort of supernatural powers to turn bread and wine into Jesus.

When YOU eat His flesh Nikki, is it the flesh that took all sin upon it or His resurrected Flesh? Or do you even know?
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


"Do I have a choice to harden my heart of not?" francis

Let's see what does Scripture teaches:

"And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: BUT I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART, THAT HE SHALL NOT LET THE PEOPLE GO." Exodus 4:21

Did Pharaoh choose to harden his own heart? Not according to the above verse, right?. If anyone because of his "free-will" chooses to harden his own heart against God and knowing the consequence of such an act would send him to hell, then I will say the "free-will" theory is rather stupid or doesn't speak well for the "free-willer", does it?
---christan on 3/26/13


To eat me flesh and drink my blood is talking about our identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life. ---kathr4453 on 3/25/13

Many disciples disagree with you. Since they were there and you were not, I believe you should take Jesus' Words as they took His Words.

Eating true Bread and drinking true Blood.

John6:66
As the result of this, many of His disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied Him.

Please note the 6:66 above.
Do you still wish to be in their company?
---Nikki on 3/26/13


Ruben, after Iwas saved THEN I was Baptized. Yes, I wanted to be baptized, not because Baptism would save me...because I was already saved. I was also totally submerged , and my Pastor said, while being submerged, Buried with Him in Baptism unto Death, and as he pulled me up, said, and raised up a New Creature In Christ.

My Baptism was an outward testimony as to what had already happen to me. My Baptism did not save me, or wash away my sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of Sin. I was Justified by His Blood, and saved by His Life. I DIED TO SIN when I died with Christ. Now sin has no more POWER over me when I walk in the Spirit.

This is MY belief, and What I believe Peter was saying in 1Peter 3:20-21.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


Ruben, re-read Romans 6-8 concerning SIN. Sin never dies, WE die to sin. ...by our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life.

Yes, you can say the flood waters represent that of death of our old man who died to this world as well, and when the flood waters subsided, and Noah stepped out on a cleansed earth, could represent our New Life In Christ. Funny, God said I will curse the ground no more...a type of our life in Christ where where there is no curse. We're no longer part of this old world system. crucified to the world, we are now seated with Christ in Heavenly Places...OUR LAND.

To eat me flesh and drink my blood is talking about our identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13




the flood killed every living thing except Noah and his immediate family. we are not cleansed by water. we are born again by the Spirit of God by the blood of the Lamb. water has never saved anyone even in noah's day. makes me wonder where the dove came from. it came from a Holy God that sent it.
---shira4368 on 3/25/13


can't help you, just keep posting nonesence like you do, joing leej, haz, and mar_V
francis, Explain The Law For Today

Praise the LORD!
There's not one person here or anywhere in Heaven and earth that needs your help!

Professing you were a saint. How foolish!
I am one of the saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:12
francis, What Is A Southern Baptist blog!

He is something for your understanding, the gospel!
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools!

Which some professing have erred concerning the faith!

They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
---TheSeg on 3/25/13


kathr4453 * Ruben, no the waters in the flood KILLED those who rebelled against God.

Which symbolize Sin. Who were save and how? " Saved by water, does not your bible said that?

kathr4453 * No water washes away sin or cleans the conscience.

Acts 22:16 " And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be BAPTIZED, AND WASH AWAY THY SINS, calling on the name of the Lord."

kathr4453 * Scripture clearly says the Blood of Jesus Christ does.

Yes and how?


John 6:53: "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his BLOOD, ye have no life in you."
---Ruben on 3/25/13


John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Those who see the Son and believe on the Son the Father draws to eat His Flesh and Drink His Blood.

This is what the whole of john 6 is saying. Many came to Jesus but walked away WHEN the final blow of TRUTH concerning true Salvation and Eternal life was revealed.

QUOTE all the truth Christan.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


Ruben, no the waters in the flood KILLED those who rebelled against God.

It clearly says, NOT the washing away of the sin of teh flesh.

No water washes away sin or cleans the conscience. Scripture clearly says the Blood of Jesus Christ does.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


Acts 1:5
For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Romans 6:2-4
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
**the Resurrected Christ IS THE ONLY MEANS OF SALVATION!
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


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8 souls represent NEW LIFE, NEW BEGINNING. And the earth was called a new earth. Being IN THE ARK, and not getting wet does not represent Johns Baptism. Noah and family's sins were not washed away here, and Peter is clearly saying......not the washing away of the sin of the flesh.

---kathr4453 on 3/23/13

First of all scripture is very clear, verse 21 tells us that baptism now saves you!

It also says "eight persons were saved by water , " V 20

Those are Peter words inspired by the HS not mine. As the waters of the flood cleared out the sin and iniquity of the world during Noahs time, the waters of baptism clear the conscience, through the power of the resurrection.AMEN!
---Ruben on 3/25/13


. I didn't say it, Christ did, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
---christan on 3/25/13

John 12:32: And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

What if no one opens the door, does God force his way in?

Hebrews 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Do I have a choice to harden my heart of not?
---francis on 3/25/13


Nana, what's the point of you quoting James 1:5 if you're still "dead in your sins and trespasses"? Don't you know the epistles speaks to the Christians only?

And since nowhere in the Scripture teaches explicitly about "your free-will" and one's own choice to go to Christ by their "free-will", I take it as Scripture would declare that "free-willers" are unbelievers. I didn't say it, Christ did, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

How do you reconcile your "free-will" theory to what Christ has said above? You can't! Too bad, but it's your words against Christ, not mine.
---christan on 3/25/13


Yes, faith comes by Hearing NOT SEEING, as this is what those who claim they are born again first to SEE so that they can believe are totally wrong. However that is not faith at all.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

And if you think you have to "enter in" first to SEE, and THEN BELIEVE, again, scripture teaches no such thing.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


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Jan, you said,
"You misunderstood the verse, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God". In context Paul was speaking to those willing to receive what they hear"
"Faith come by hearing" that is the first part, and "hearing by the Word of God" You cannot hear spiritual truth unless God gives you that hearing. Here, (Deut. 29:2-4). Moses explaining what those people saw, how God helped them, trials they went through, signs they saw and (v. 4) say's
"Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day"
God had not given them spiritual eyes, ears are a heart to perceive. Hearing is by the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/13


---christan on 3/22/13 (not enough space to allow your post)

You misunderstood the verse, "Faith comes by hearing the word of God". In context Paul was speaking to those willing to receive what they hear. As written in James 1:21.

Jesus spoke of those not willing to hear in Matthew 13:13-16, the same example is in Acts 28:23-29. Stating that some would not believe. The word "would" is a past tense of "will". They exercised their will to not believe what they heard. Peter also spoke about such in 1 Peter 2:4-10.
---jan4378 on 3/24/13


Markv, why do you keep talking in circles, making no sense whatsoever. Do you think you sound spiritual ?

And your continual lying that I do not or never believed God was made flesh is so bazaar. The Word, Who IS GOD was made flesh. I have always said and still say.

Markv, go take your pills, a nap, and maybe you will feel better tomorrow.
Oh, tomorrow YOU tell us exactly WHAT YOU SAW when you saw the kingdom of GOD. Tell us Markv....we 're all waiting .
---kathr4453 on 3/24/13


//you can already see Jesus as God by your "free-will", right?"

Man, being created in the very image of God, has within him the desire to worship God if not a god.


Ec 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Man by his very nature in seeking God is much like the baby that seeks it mother's milk.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


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"By your theory of "first believe in Christ before we are regenerated", means in actual fact, you can already see Jesus as God by your "free-will", right?"
---christan

Jamess 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him."
Even in his ignorance man has enough lucidity to realize his lack of wisdom and, would that he asks God for it-it shall be given him
as is written.
---Nana on 3/24/13


\\By your theory of "first believe in Christ before we are regenerated", means in actual fact, you can already see Jesus as God by your "free-will", right?\\
---christan

Why do you make the ignorant assumption that "free will" must be involved if faith precedes regeneration ??


\\One would think that regeneration is required for the sinner is he cannot see because he's "dead in sins and trespass". But you are saying you can see, why the need for regeneration?\\
---christan

Regeneration is the act of GOD washing our sins away and recreating our spirit sinless so that we are holy enough to enter heaven.


Sheesh. you should study a little
---James_L on 3/24/13


JamesL, you go figure out for yourself (since you're a believer of the "free-will") what Scripture is telling you.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
---christan on 3/24/13


Kathr, you now say,

" No one ever saw God much less saw this Kingdom of God before Jesus came in the flesh. Jesus was God in the flesh so we could SEE GOD, touch God, and as John said Handle the Word of Life."
Here you now claim Jesus came in flesh and He is God, where before you claim Jesus Christ who is the Begotten Son was created a Son, that He was not eternal, your very own words.
Then you say "so we could see God, and touch God" more nonesense.
"When did you touch God?" "and when did you see Him?"More religious talk to sound like you know what you are saying. How can you touch God, if He is Spirit?
Just more whining, complaining, and making up words.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13


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Oh, and lets be clear here Christan, FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT ENTER, much less SEE the Kingdom of God. So exactly what is and WHERE is the Kingdom of God YOU claim you saw before you heard and believed their even was one? No one ever saw God much less saw this Kingdom of God before Jesus came in the flesh. Jesus was God in the flesh so we could SEE GOD, touch God, and as John said Handle the Word of Life.

You just don't realize how full of rap with a Capitol C you are.

Those who truly SEE, know HOW they see, and WHEN and by WHOM we can see. CHRIST IN YOU......and he wasn't IN YOU before you heard and believed.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/13


Colossians 1:12-14
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sin.


Christan mark and all Calvinists.

THIS is the KINGDOM you really want to be in. Don't miss it!
---kathr4454 on 3/24/13


francis, you cannot understand because you hear not. If you are correct that God is knocking at the door of your heart, you are not hearing. But nowhere does the passage teach that. This analogy in the context is speaking to the Church at Laodicea. He didn't go inside the Church and knock on all the individuals heart. Shear nonesense. He knocked on the door of the Church. You are not hearing as the passage states,
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches" (Rev. 3:22). Churches. You are just not hearing, you are deep in unbelief.
You francis are the idiot. You cannot help who you turn out to be. If God wants to open your eyes and ears so that you can hear, it will happen if God will's it.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13


Christan, many saw Jesus as the Christ who were not born again first.....that's WHY Jesus came in the flesh....SO HE......GOD could be seen by man, for one of MANY reasons, GOD WITH US. If He was made like US, and died just like us....Hebrews 2....,

And since Jesus had not gone to the Cross, the WAY INTO THE HOLY OF HOLIES had not even been opened yet for ANY MAN to see the Kingdom of God... No one BEFORE Jesus death and resurrection saw any kingdom but an earthly one anyway.

So tell us now ...what do YOU see Christan....do you SEE anything not written in scripture? So where are those OT verses talking about the Kingdom of God YOU CLAIM YOU SEE? Joseph Smith saw things too....based on what?
---kathr4453 on 3/24/13


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Christan,
I agree that we were dead in our sins before the Spirit made us alive. I don't beleve that ever has been an issue of debate.

The debated issues revolve around
1-What does it mean to be dead
2-What does it mean to be alive
3-How are we made alive
4-When are we made alive
5-Do we bear any responsibility in becoming alive
6-Do we decide to become alive or is it imposed upon us?

There are more, but you should get the idea. YOu and I agree on poinbt 6, and that's probably about it
---James_L on 3/23/13


Mark V, This blog seems like the age-old argument "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin"
Born again=plain and simple:
Your first birth is human and in every way suited to this earth.
2nd birth= Jesus takes some with Him to rule as kings and priests in the heavenly part of His Kingdom. The human body is not suited for that enironment, hence a rebirth as a spirit creature is necessary! When? Christ determines when!
It has nothing to do with funny,creepy feelings!
---1st_cliff on 3/23/13


"Because we are unable to regenarate ourselves we MUST first believe in Christ before we are regenerated." francis

Isn't the cause and effect of regeneration meaning, enabling one to be able to "see the kingdom of God" and then "enter the kingdom of God"? Meaning, to see Jesus is indeed God?

By your theory of "first believe in Christ before we are regenerated", means in actual fact, you can already see Jesus as God by your "free-will", right? One would think that regeneration is required for the sinner is he cannot see because he's "dead in sins and trespass". But you are saying you can see, why the need for regeneration?
---christan on 3/23/13


francis, you are wrong about being a Christian happens over time. I can take you to the place where the Lord saved me. I remember like yesterday. it felt like I was walking on air.
---shira4368 on 3/23/13


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sperm and egg...sower and the seed.

Born (delivered) of water...born (delivered) of the Spirit

baby...fruit

The Father would not impose Himself on Mary. The Holy Spirit carried God's seed.

impregnation is not being born or born again
---aka on 3/23/13


John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.



Here is where many twist this verse, it DOES NOT SAY we are Born of the WILL of God, it says we are BORN OF GOD.

Two entirely different things, having two entirely different meanings. many scriptures support we are Born of God, but NO OTHER scripture including this one says we are Born of the WILL of God.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/13


Because we are unable to regenarate ourselves
we MUST first believe in Christ before we are regenerated.

We come to Christ in our sinful state and He changes us

No one can point to a specific time and place and say this is the time and place I was born again

This process happens over time

Here is how Jesus put's it:
Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit

Those who are born of the spirit change ( regenerate) over time, Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
---francis on 3/23/13


not all who's saved by grace will bear all the nine fruits mentioned but they will indeed have the fruits as God so wills which of the fruit they will manifest.
christan on 3/23/13
BCV? Do you mean fruit?
"the fruit(sing) of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance."Gal 5:22-23
Gifts: 1 cor 12:4-11
"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."
---chria on 3/23/13


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JamesL, the physician and the parable of the sower justifies that you're not "DEAD" in the spirit? If anyone who's erroneous in understanding, it's you. Here's why.

The context of the physician in Matthew 9:11-13, Mark 2:16-18, Luke 5:30-32 is about Christ and the self-righteous Pharisees. The context of the parable of the sower speaks about the four kinds of grounds (which is about the hearts of man) the seeds landed on. Of the four, three were DEAD grounds pretending to be alive (just like you) and the fourth sprouted.

Neither of these reference contradicts Paul's declaration that you are "dead in sin and trespass" before the Spirit makes one alive. In fact your references confirms Paul's teaching.
---christan on 3/23/13


francis, since you called someone an idiot, let me return the compliment. If anyone's an idiot, it would be you. But Scripture doesn't refer to such as an idiot but a FOOL.

You quote Rev 3:20 to justify your "free-will" is alive to God? Gee, I wonder how Lazarus who was DEAD in the tomb for four days used "his free-will" to come back to life? Or did he? Last I read he was lying DEAD in the tomb until "And when He thus had spoken, He cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth."

You see, your "free-will" is actually a dead duck that does nothing but only pretends it can do something. The more you cling to this "free-will", the closer you are to the broad gate.
---christan on 3/23/13


Man still in charge of God. Man has to allow God the Spirit to change someone's mind.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/13

You are an idiot, so I cannot expect you to understand this

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

No God is not waiting for the deacon to open the door of the church, he is knocking at individuals heart
---francis on 3/23/13


John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Do these verse tell us that we are born not by our will, but by the will of God?

And does not the Spirit of God indwelt those that are born of His Spirit?

Romans 8:9b Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Can a person believe in Christ w/o regeneration?

Debatable as God in His sovereignty can choose someone like He did with Paul on the Damascus Road to do His will and that w/o belief in Christ.
---e.lee7537 on 3/23/13


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francis, here is what you being with which is pure works for salvation,

"being born again means to allow the holy spirit to change your mind."

Man still in charge of God. Man has to allow God the Spirit to change someone's mind. You are still speaking of your own self-righteous rights having power over God. True free will follower. You don't tell God what to do and He just jumps at your command. You are a sinner in need of Christ. Christ does not need you, He is God.
No wonder you speak for the written letter of the law over the Spirit of the law. You have read too many E.G. White books.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/13


Well, Peter and Ruben, read the verse again and again. ..."by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"...a good conscience towards God... Again is also supported in Hebrews, the Blood of Jesus has purged our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

The NEW creature IN CHRIST is who has a purged conscience.

John's Baptism ( water) accomplished no such thing.

8 souls represent NEW LIFE, NEW BEGINNING. And the earth was called a new earth. Being IN THE ARK, and not getting wet does not represent Johns Baptism. Noah and family's sins were not washed away here, and Peter is clearly saying......not the washing away of the sin of the flesh.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/13


\\JamesL, your analogy of "Who gave the medicine" implies that the person receiving the "medicine" is still alive but unwell. It's contrary to spiritual regeneration...\\
---christan on 3/22/13


You should tell Jesus that calling Himself the Great Physician is contrary to regeneration then.

Why not tell Him that His analogy of a farmer planting seeds is out of bounds?

You should tell Jesus that He failed to drive the point correctly when He equated a fig tree to Israel.

You should tell Jesus that His analogy of a wicked judge fails to give us an idea of how God answers prayer

Tell Jesus that He was erroneous for speaking in parables, I guess ??
---James_L on 3/23/13


trey, I do read your blogs carefully and the others included.

First and foremost, let's be clear about salvation from God. It's clear that what saves the sinner is the gift of faith from God, right? Meaning, saving faith cannot be measured by the fruits of the Spirit.

That is, the faith that saved Abel, Noah, Moses, Peter, Paul is the very same faith that save the sinner that God has graciously shown mercy to. Salvation has nothing to do with the fruits of the Spirit mentioned in Galatians 5:22. The fruits that shows up are merely prove of your salvation.

And not all who's saved by grace will bear all the nine fruits mentioned but they will indeed have the fruits as God so wills which of the fruit they will manifest.
---christan on 3/23/13


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Ruben, you, just like the Jews, are in willful judicial blindness, and cannot see the real significance and truth behind Jesus comments on (verse John 6:53). Whats more, Jesus used a metaphor in reference to eating and drinking His blood and was not referring to the ordinance of communion for two significant reasons,
1. Communion had not been instituted yet, and
2. If Jesus was referring to communion, then the passage would teach that anyone partaking of communion would receive eternal life, and communion has never saved anyone, for we are saved by Grace through faith. You are in spiritual blindness just as they were. Because He also didn't mean to literally eat His flesh, since He was still alive.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/13


"Believing comes first. "Faith comes by hearing the word of God." Jan4378

What the "free-will" camp are implying is that the minute you choose to "believe" in Christ, you will receive "faith", right?

The "free-will" theology is so deep in stupor that they don't realise what they are actually implying. Here's your error: if one can "belief" that Christ is the Son of God by your own "free-will", why does God even need to give you "faith" when you already in the first place have "faith"? That is, isn't "believing" that Christ is the Son of God already rooted in "faith" or why would you "believe" in Him?
---christan on 3/22/13


christian, I wish you would read my blogs more carefully. I believe you only read what you want them to say.

Let us look at what I was saying using logic. Where do we get faith? Answer: Gal 5:22 It is a fruit of the Spirit.

For there to be fruit there must first be a tree. In other words, the only way we bear fruit is for the Spirit of God to work in us. READ CLOSELY: Until the Spirit of God works in us we cannot bear fruit. The tree comes first and then the fruit. Not the other way around!
---trey on 3/22/13


Kathr4453: 'and here is not talking about water baptism, but a spiritual baptism. ' (3/22/2013)

On what grounds do you make that statement? Some agree, some disagree.

But why do you say that?
---Peter on 3/22/13


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Ruben, "Jesus is speaking about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, nothing about being born again in this chapter." Are you serious? Jesus is asking you to be "cannibal"? Or do you and your cohorts not understand symbolism and metaphors?

Seems to me you are of the transubstantiation persuasion? So today, Jesus is not around in the flesh and blood substance, you mind telling us how you support your theory of "eating his flesh and drinking his blood"? Or are you going to say, "he's in the wafer".

Now you know why I say you're all over the shop? You have the faintest idea of what regeneration does and how important and fundamental it is in eternal life.
---christan on 3/22/13


What does born again mean?
It speaks of a spiritual rebirth to that which is dead in trespass and sin. It is a recreative miracle, from death to life.

Can a person believe in Christ, without the Spirit first changing the heart through regeneration, or can he believe with the same heart? Give Scripture.

Believing comes first. "Faith comes by hearing the word of God."
"With the heart man believes and with confession of the mouth is salvation."
"To those who believe, to them he gave the power to become the sons of God."
---jan4378 on 3/22/13


being born again means to allow the holy spirit to change your mind.

It means to conform to the things of God and do the will of God

Being born again does not happen the same day which you accept Jesus, being born again happens through the process of sanctification

Jhn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit

To be born again, you have to allow the holy spirit to renew your mind based on the word of God

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
---francis on 3/22/13


1 Peter 3:20-22

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

meaning our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. that of being baptized into His death....and here is not talking about water baptism, but a spiritual baptism.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/13

Kathr,

What do you do with the verse "eight souls were saved by water." ignore it!
---Ruben on 3/22/13


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1 Peter 3:20-22

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

meaning our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. that of being baptized into His death....and here is not talking about water baptism, but a spiritual baptism.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/13


Heres the problem with Calvinism re Christans MarkV's understanding of Born Again. 1st we are all dead in sin correct? And we know that even those dead in sin who refuse Christ will still have to face a SECOND DEATH correct. THIS is that missing link they just dont get. To be Born Again is not giving birth to our OLD MAN. Our NEW BITRH is giving birth to a NEW MAN. BUT the OLD MAN who is already dead in sin must still die with Christ to be raised up a New Creature. Those Born Again will not face the SECOND DEATH. Thats why they just dont get why the CROSS is so important and why we identify with Him in Death and New Life. Oh DEATH where is they sting? is talking about the second death. There aint none!
---kathr4453 on 3/22/13


You mister Gordon, in every answer you have given I have asked you to put down Scripture to support what you say. You never do for those reason and topics, because you have no passages. Now when you want to condemn me for answering you, you finally put down Scripture. First, Matthew then Luke.
Listen Gordon, you have twisted the name of Jesus over and over. I was not the only one who believe you are very wrong, many others were answering you. You made a lot of claims, with opinions only. You gave heresy because in Scripture Jesus has many names. You claim only one and never give a passage to proof you are right. It is all talk again. Stand in line behind Kathr, she also talks alot without Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/13


christan * That's why you're all over the shop with your erroneous theology. Christ simply put it like this:

"It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

Whose really all over the place, Jesus is speaking about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, nothing about being born again in this chapter. BTW some of his discples said " This is hard: and even walk away because of what Jesus said you must do,

"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink."(JHn 6:54)
---Ruben on 3/22/13


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shira * ruben, do you believe you are saved by baptism? baptism is just letting the world know you are saved. it does not save anyone.

Re-read just what you wrote:

///baptism is just letting the world know you are saved. it does not save anyone.///


Lets see what scriptures says:

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved," (MK 16:16)

"eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves usbaptism( 1 PT 3:20)

Galatians 3:26-27. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have BEEN BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST HAVE PUT ON CHRIST."
---Ruben on 3/22/13


Mark V
I don't care one bit why you posted this question. But because I'm dishonest?

I thought God was the cause of your actions. Now I'm the cause? That's funny, man

You claim that you are born again. YET you claim that you're still a sinner.

SIN is the SPOTS and WRINKLES that Christ's blood removed.

If you're still a sinner, then you're still spotted and wrinkled

If you're washed by God, yet sill dirty, what does that say about the power of God? Ironed, but still wrinkled? Very powerful indeed

Do you not know that no sin will enter heaven? When do you think your sin will be REMOVED (not merely covered) so that you can go in?
---James_L on 3/22/13


Mark V, And, you, sir, are being called out here. You are guilty of having done the very same thing to me, on the What Is Jesus' Name? Blog, for which you are getting in James L's face about, of which you claim he did to you! And, I noticed that you did not bother to deal with the error of your misquoting, misconstruing and misunderstanding of what I actually had posted. See MATTHEW 7:4 and LUKE 6:42.
---Gordon on 3/22/13


JamesL, your analogy of "Who gave the medicine" implies that the person receiving the "medicine" is still alive but unwell. It's contrary to spiritual regeneration which Scripture declares to us that our spirit is "DEAD in trespasses and sin" to God.

"And you hath He quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins" Ephesians 2:1

What a great difference in relation to one another!

The bottom line in the blog question is "Can a person believe in Christ, without the Spirit first changing the heart through regeneration, or can he believe in Christ by his own without the Spirit changing his heart?"
---christan on 3/22/13


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One may ask, when is someone actually married? Before the consummation of the marriage, or at the moment of consummation of the marriage. Accepting a marriage proposal is not married, saying I do at the alter gives that union of vows the next step in the consummation of the marriage relationship.

Being Born Again is in that consummation moment of being ONE, and that happens when we become ONE IN DEATH AND RESURRECTION life, and that life is Christ Himself. Being baptized into His Body by that ONE SPIRIT, is that ONENESS UNION, and when we are A New Creature IN CHRIST. NO ONE was IN CHRIST before they believed, and said I DO.

This is a mystery, but read the end of Ephesians .
---kathr4453 on 3/22/13


James L, I posted the blog for a few reasons, one because you are a very dishonest person who lied that I stated something I never did in the Predestination blog. You quoted me saying,
"" And that after being washed, ironed, cleansed, etc that he is still spotted and wrinkled"
Which I have never said. So if you are going to answer, at least speak from Scripture, give your opinion if you have one concerning the topic, and stop getting personal and lying. Or get in line with the others who like to corrupt the Word and are always hostile.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/13


Mark V,
What exactly is your question? Are you asking WHAT IS born again, HOW is one born again, or WHEN is one born again?

Your qustion makes as much sense as asking:
What does "cured of sickness" mean? Does it mean that one is cured by God?

Being cured of a sickness means that you do not have the sickness anymore. What Is It is not the same as Who Gave The Medicine or when it was given, or whether it was taken orally or through I.V.

Same as born again. Asking "What does it mean" is not the same as How does it happen, When does it happen, and By Whom

And how about YOU give some scripture that says EXACTLY what you teach?
---James_L on 3/21/13


trey, Galatians 5:22 isn't the answer to your own question, "So we have to have faith to please God, but where do we get faith?". Those are the "fruits of the Spirit". It's not true that "In order to have faith there must first be a working of the Holy Spirit." Receiving faith from God is the consequence of being "born of the Spirit", the fruits will follow, not the other way round as you imply.

Saving faith is the sole property of God and He dispenses it to only those whom He tells us, He "has chosen before the foundations of the world". Faith is the "spiritual muscle" from God that will enable the once unbeliever to believe in His Son.
---christan on 3/21/13


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ruben, do you believe you are saved by baptism? baptism is just letting the world know you are saved. it does not save anyone. born of water is a natural birth and born of the Spirit is a Spiritual birth.
---shira4368 on 3/21/13


Baptism is a Public confession of the inner fact. When the HOLY SPIRIT comes in and gives us a new nature by the power of GOD. We are Born Again. Those who are not will not enter heaven.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/21/13


Hi MarkV,

Let's first look at belief. It seems to me that belief is an evidence of faith.

Heb11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So we have to have faith to please God, but where do we get faith? Do we choose to have faith?....

Gal5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,...

In order to have faith there must first be a working of the Holy Spirit.
---trey on 3/21/13


Ruben, you quote a ton of verses from the Scripture but it matters nought if you're not "born of the Spirit of God". That's why you're all over the shop with your erroneous theology. Christ simply put it like this:

"It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

In short, the Word of God is spirit and unless you're "quickened" (aka born) by Him, your understanding is of the flesh. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:15
---christan on 3/21/13


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Ruben, What CULT are you from?? Anyone who knows the Holy Bible knows that to truly believe in YAHUSHUA as Saviour and Lord one has to be Born Again. They go hand-in-hand! Re-read JOHN Chapter 3. The WHOLE Chapter.
---Gordon on 3/21/13


The explanation for John 3:5 is right in John 3:6.
Jesus is trying to explain this to Nicodemus,but he is not getting it, partly due to his religious upbringing.
Sound familiar?
Jhn 3:5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
---micha9344 on 3/21/13


Accoring to scripture and the early Church Fathers it is Baptism: Part 1

Jesus says " Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit , he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (Jhn 3:5)

1)Jesus was talking to Nicodemus, who knew the OT about water and spirit. Eze 36:23-29 writes about clean water being sprinkled, and God cleansing his people from all dirt and poruing out his Spirit and even Isaiah in 44:3 reads that the HS being pour out with water and blessing to come!

Look what jesus does after telling Nicodemus about being born again of water and spirit, He goes out baptizing, in fact this is the only time in the gospels that Jesus and his disciples baptize. Cont-
---Ruben on 3/21/13


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