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Once Saved Always Saved

Once a person is born again, is he or she guaranteed to be eternally saved?

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 ---trey on 3/21/13
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Shira, I do too. What an awesome God that loves man so much He sent His Son to die for our sin, so we can have Life In Him.

Don't you want to keep telling everyone you know and see How much God loves them? I sure do, even after all these years .

God Bless!
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


I ALSO BELIEVE when GOD makes a promise He can't break it, or take it back.
That is what the Covenant Promises are....God's Word.--kathr4453 on 3/26/13

Okay, but God isn't taking or breaking a promise because I decided not to follow Him any longer.

I am the one breaking the promise.
---Nikki on 3/26/13


kathr, I agree with every word you posted. the promise of eternal life is all thru the new testament. I thank God every day for my salvation.
---shira4368 on 3/26/13


Nikki, just to be clear here. I know most people believe if you believe once saved always saved, you have no free will....Or are a Calvinist . Well, I'm neither Calvin or armenian.

I believe in free will, to have that will, based on intellect, reason, and conscience based on God's PROMISE that whosoever believes in Him, Jesus who died for our sin, are given eternal life. Eternal life is the GIFT..the Gift of Salvation, through Grace. RE the CRoss, or finished works of Christ. I ALSO BELIEVE when GOD makes a promise He can't break it, or take it back.

That is what the Covenant Promises are....God's Word.

If you study the New or Everlasting Covenant, it is not Conditional, like the Old was.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


Nikki //
NOT MY GOD THE TRUE GOD. HE IS MERCY AND LOVE!

---
While we can all believe that Scripture also tells us that God said -

I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. Romans 9:15

We also read that God cannot lie -

"I (Paul) have been sent to proclaim faith to those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives. This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God-who does not lie-promised them BEFORE the world began. Titus 1:1b-2NLT
---e.7537 on 3/26/13




Now we can't abort ourselves. And certainly God wll not abot anyone either..---kathr4453 on 3/26/13

Wishful thinking. You are making excuses for your sins.
You are acting as if you are helpless and God forces all things on you.

If your point is correct it makes God merciless and heartless because He chose to save some and not others.

NOT MY GOD THE TRUE GOD. HE IS MERCY AND LOVE!
---Nikki on 3/26/13


If God wanted to make YOUR point that one got out or one could have gotten out or one WANTED to get out, ONE would have gotten out. It's just that simple.

WE are sealed until the day of redemption...why, because that is what Salvation /Eternal life IN CHRIST is all about. Eternal Life. A life never before experienced until Jesus died and rose again. OT saints waited for and looked forward to that day.

No one in the OT had Eternal life IN CHRIST, because no one was yet baptized into His death or raised upwith Him. It's the Christ IN US that is eternal. Now we can't abort ourselves. And certainly God wll not abot anyone either....
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


Jhn 10:28-30 And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all, and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. I and [my] Father are one.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
-Who is able to remove the Seal of God and pull himself from the Father's hand?
---micha9344 on 3/26/13


God condescended in Isaiah 46:11 to declare to mankind, " yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

And you say God is not in control of the man that He created? You've been exposed to be a liar by Isaiah 46:11!
---christan on 3/26/13

Christan,

So when man kills, rapes, steals it was because "I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Or did man do it on his own?

"Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God, for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."( James 1:12-15)
"
---Ruben on 3/26/13


Not ONE SINGLE member of that family of 8 chose to get out at anytime until it was time to get out...AFTER THE ARK RESTED.
There is SOOO much more to see here than seeing no one jumped out for one thing.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13

YES, Like the word you used yourself 'CHOSE'. Which implies they had a CHOICE. Which IMPLIES FREE WILL.

My point is they could have JUMPED out before the ARK RESTED!!!!

If the Raven got out BEFORE the boat rested, so the family could have gotten out.

I can go to hell, but I refuse. I not stupid as they were not stupid to jump.
---Nikki on 3/26/13




Nikki, again God shut them in. Did Noah open the door or a window to let out a raven, then dove? And you think while the storm was going on anyone wanted out? And why send the Raven....Dove? Wasn't it to see if there was any dry land where it was safe to get out? God never told Noah and family they would have to live forever on that ark. They didn't GET OUT until it was SAFE TO GET OUT.

Not ONE SINGLE member of that family of 8 chose to get out at anytime until it was time to get out...AFTER THE ARK RESTED...and the significance on what DAY it RESTED is the day approx 2000 years later Jesus rose from the dead.

There is SOOO much more to see here than seeing no one jumped out for one thing.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


"No Mark, God is always in control, but he does not control you." Ruben

Huh? Say what? Maybe you like to then tell us your idea of what God is really in control of since according to you the man is not under His control. That's so un-biblical and a lie.

God condescended in Isaiah 46:11 to declare to mankind, "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

And you say God is not in control of the man that He created? You've been exposed to be a liar by Isaiah 46:11!
---christan on 3/26/13


We are told that the ark rested on the seventh month on the seventeenth day of the month. The seventh month was the month Abib, but from the time of the first passover it became the beginning of months, and "the first month of the year" (Exodus 12:2). The lamb was killed on the fourteenth day of the same month, and the third day after this was the seventeenth, the day on which the ark rested.


Just wanted to post this to prevent Nikki from accusing me of lying and making it up.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it?
---francis on 3/25/13


\\salvation = deliverance from destruction, deliverance from failure, to be delivered from sin and the penalty there of by Christ Jesus.

Hope this is helpful.\\
---trey on 3/22/13


Not really helpful because the penalty of sin is twofold - physical and spiritual
---James_L on 3/25/13


Now Noah and family had the "free will" to go in, as no one forced them in, however once IN, Always In.--kathr4453 on 3/25/13

Are you saying Noah didn't open the hatch? He opened the door and let the raven out. No force going in or staying in. There isn't a lock on the door.
We are going in circles. They are saved as long as they stay in His arms!

According to you, God gives free will as long as they did what He wanted them to do by going into the boat.
Once inside, God took that free will away. He forced Noah to be obedient.

I don't know about you, but God doesn't need to force me to love Him.
I choose to love Him.
---Nikki on 3/25/13


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e.lee7537 * you fail to realize the extent God really loves those that are His children.

And you fail to see his Love for us when we choose to walk away from him:

"Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me." (LK 15:12) He does as we ask!

e.lee7537 * Like our earthly fathers, God as our heavenly Father will discipline those whom He loves.

Hebrews 12:6-8 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.

And he also warns us:

"Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised. " (heb 10:35-36)


---Ruben on 3/25/13


Nikki, who shut the door to the ark, Noah or God?

Being in the Ark is a type of being In Christ. No one was lost, no one jumped out.

Now Noah and family had the "free will" to go in, as no one forced them in, however once IN, Always In. They were SAVED from the Wrath of God and judgement upon the whole world.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


Mark_V.* 'free will' in that concept you can come and go as you please, since you are in control, not God. You can jump out of God's hand and jump back in when you want.

No Mark, God is always in control, but he does not control you.

Ask and it should be given Jesus says:

"Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me. So he divided to them" (LK 15:12)

You can return if you repented from your sins:

"Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight" (LK 15:21)

What does the Father do?

"Bring out the best robe and put it on him,"(LK 15:22)

"for this my son was dead and is alive again , he was lost and is found."(LK 15:24)
---Ruben on 3/25/13


Please E. Lee, stay on point. You asked earlier:
"Will one that is born anew of God's Spirit ever desire to "jump out of God's hand"?

Philippians 2:13NLT For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13

My point about satan is that God doesn't stop any being from leaving Him if that being is determine to leave.

Satan jumped into hell because satan wanted to leave no matter how much glory seen. FREE WILL
---Nikki on 3/25/13


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MarkV, You are good! You take me back to school. Too much to pack into a 125 word max, but you manage to do so.
I might not be able to answer you correctly, but I will give you my OPINION, not the RCC's opinion.

God is Sovereign, but can not sin. And He can't deny Himself, but He is Sovereign and can do anything.
We are created in His Image. So, we behave like Him to a point.

You want your Wife to love you on her own, not by force. You cared for her, protected her, and would have given your life for her if you could.
In all of this you didn't want her to love you because of the things I mentioned you would do for her, but to love you for you alone.
How is God different?
---Nikki on 3/25/13


Kathr4453, Noah wasn't sealed inside.
The Lord shut him in Gen 7:16
Noah wasn't trapped inside. A big difference.
Genesis 8:6-7....Noah opened the hatch he had made in the ark, and he sent out a raven to see if the waters had lessesned on the earth.

Noah and his family didn't have to remain in the boat. They did because they were not stupid.
I think people want to blame God for their mistakes or sins as Adam blamed God.
If you jumped off a safe boat into water killing yourself, it is your fault alone.

Is God to blame for satan's denying Him?
What more could God have done to make satan want to say with Him???
Satan belongs in Hell if he won't returns God's love for him! He hates God. Stop making excuses.
---Nikki on 3/25/13


Nana, you demonstrate you're an unbeliever when quoting Scriptures. You quote Philippians 2:13 without putting verse 12 in context.

So then, what is the connection to verse 13 when Paul said "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."? The reference is in verse 12, "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

Which simply means that if the sinner "fear and tremble" with regards to their salvation, it's because God is the one who's working in them to "fear and tremble".

So where's your "free-will" in play here? In fact, "free-will" never fear and tremble, it only exalts the man!
---christan on 3/25/13


Philiphians 2:13 "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." The fact that it is not God taking over man's volition to will and to do is seen in the next verses:
"Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world, Holding forth the word of life, that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
Otherwise Paul would be admonishing God.
---Nana on 3/24/13


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Nikki, I totally understand your position with your concept of 'free will' in that concept you can come and go as you please, why not, since you are in control, not God. You can jump out of God's hand and jump back in when you want. Complete autonomy. Which really indicates emnity against God. If you are autonomus, you are self-law. To be autonomus means to be a law unto oneself. No governor, least of all a Sovereign Governor. It is in fact logically impossible to have a Sovereign God existing at the same time as an autonomus creature. If God is Sovereign, and we know He is, man cannot possibly be autonomus. Autonomus implies absolute freedom, and that is what people demand with their "Free will". That's why no one has it.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/13


Trav: How sweet. Take a nap.



---jerry6593 on 3/25/13


Nikki, could Noah and family have jumped out of the ARK, or did God shut the door and SEAL THEM IN.

And once in the arms hands of God would anyone even want to jump out?

Who would ever jump away from the greatest LOVE beyond human understanding.

Anyone who says that has NEVER really been Born Again in the first place.

They started with you, departed, BECAUSE they never were one of you to begin with SO SAYS SCRIPTURE.

And that belief only shows the ignorance of the Everlasting Covenant that Jesus is the SURETY of the Covenant. I guess people just don't know what SURETY means.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/13


Nikki//You avoided my response to you earlier. Why if satan who was the #1 created being next to God and saw the most of God's glory than any being chose to leave?

FREE WILL!
---
Does Satan today have "free will"? Or has he been limited as to what he may or may not do? The story of Job comes to my mind.

While we have some freedom of will, God does place upon us some restrictions as He may chose to intervene.
---e.lee7537 on 3/25/13


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....the Bible describes salvation as a three-step process:
1) Justification - Acceptance of Christ as substitute for the penalty of our sins - the born again experience.

---jerry6593 on 3/23/13

Well, jerryanswerman. You must be practicing to be sarcastic style preacher. Ur sukceeding.
Your 3 step doctrine sound canned, with no witnessing scriptures to back them.
Provide scriptures for number 1. above.
Number 2 & 3 we'll dissect scripturally later.
---Trav on 3/24/13


Cluny //This belief is not peculiar to the "Roman Church," but is held by ALL pre-Reformation Churches and even classical creedal Protestants, such as Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Anglican.
---
You best go back and study what these non-Roman Catholic denominations really believe. As an Orthodox Presbyterian, we do not nor have ever believed in baptismal regeneration. We largely hold to the teachings of the Westminster confessions of 1644.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


Nikki//But, if you want to jump out of His hand God will not stop you....--e.lee7537 on 3/24/13

You avoided my response to you earlier. Why if satan who was the #1 created being next to God and saw the most of God's glory than any being chose to leave?

FREE WILL!

If you have a better reason, please share.

Satan not only chose to jump out of God's hand, he jumped into HELL.
---Nikki on 3/24/13


if we are saved by grace and then determine that we can lose our justified status simply by not acting obediently or following after righteousness then we are in essence rejecting the cross, ignoring what Christ came to do! We are also denying our present position in our crucified flesh combating its temptations daily.

As Paul told the Galatians, Christ is become of no effect unto you. You would have just as much success trying to save yourself without the cross, as you would trying to stay saved without the grace of God operating on your behalf.
---michael_e on 3/24/13


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\\Will one that is born anew of God's Spirit ever desire to "jump out of God's hand"?\\

Christians are never tempted simply to "jump out of God's hands," but to do something that looks good and spiritual and holy that will have that effect.

\\Perhaps the Roman Church belief that one is born spiritually at water baptism is where the problem really lies.\\

This belief is not peculiar to the "Roman Church," but is held by ALL pre-Reformation Churches and even classical creedal Protestants, such as Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Anglican.

Besides, jesus and the Apostles believed it.

The real issue is why YOU do not.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/13


Nikki//But, if you want to jump out of His hand God will not stop you.
---
Will one that is born anew of God's Spirit ever desire to "jump out of God's hand"?

Philippians 2:13NLT For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Perhaps the Roman Church belief that one is born spiritually at water baptism is where the problem really lies.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


Peter I can understand your position on Ephesians 4:30, but could you apply the same interpretation with Ephesians 1:13-14?

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


Peter, your understanding of Ephesians 4:30 is erroneous and that's because it's not teaching that one has the "free-will" to "grieve the Holy Spirit".

The context of Ephesians 4 when read is Paul's reproach of the members of the Ephesians church, the Christians, who after their conversion were bickering with one another. Paul was teaching them to love one another and not behave like worldly people now that the Spirit is with them.

And because they were "born of the Spirit", he reproaches them to "be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Nothing about "free-will"!
---christan on 3/24/13


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StrongAxe, your analogy of a "two-way street" may be applicable in the flesh and blood context. But to use it in Scriptural context is so typical of a "free-will" lover who doesn't believe a single word of what God tells him, and that is:

"And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins".

The very reason the Spirit has to "quickened" the sinner is because he's as what Scripture declares "DEAD" to God! You may think you're alive but like it or not, you're "DEAD" as far as God is concerned. Jesus says it best,

"If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth."
---christan on 3/24/13


Strongaxe, you using worldly logic not spiritual logic. God is Spirit, and we worship Him in spirit and truth. Our salvation is through faith. Fallen man has no faith in God, they don't understand spiritual matters, they do not seek after God. While fallen they are at emnity against God. They don't love God. Were told they are doing the desires of their father the devil and don't realize it. In order for any fallen sinner to respond towards God, God has to spiritually make them alive in order for them to hear, understand the things of God. Once he is alive to God, we are told he is together with Christ spiritually. Faith comes from hearing, but hearing by the Word of God. Without a spiritual awakening, no one can respond to Christ.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13


christan:

Giving is a two-way street. One person gives, and the other receives. If the second person refuses a gift, he doesn't get it - regardless of whether the giver wants to give it or not. God doesn't FORCE anything on us if we don't want it.
---StrongAxe on 3/23/13


\\...salvation as a three-step process\\
---jerry6593 on 3/23/13

Salvation is more than that

At conversion, saved from the curse of the Law and the Lake of Fire (Gal 3:13). "We" are ready for heaven then, except we need a new body.

At baptism, saved from a guilty conscience so we can walk in a newness of life (1Pet 3:21, Rom 6:5)

Sanctification, an ongoing work of being set apart from fleshly indulgences (Rom 6:19-20)

At the resurrection, our body will be saved from the power of death (Rom 5)

Glorification, when Jesus shares His inheritance with those who suffered with Him (Heb 2:9-10, Rom 8:17 et al)
---James_L on 3/23/13


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If one goes to hell, they were never saved. One bible verse speaks of remaining in me and I will remain in you. Those who do not remain in are gathered up as weeds and burned. Another verse speaks of consider the kindness and sterness of the Lord, kindness to your provided you CONTINUE in it. Assurance of salvation comes with remaining in christ and continuing in the Lord. Forgive us as we forgive others. If we do not love our brother whom we have seen, we cannot love God whom we have not seen. No eye has seen what God has prepared for those who love him. I don't have assurance that I can turn from God and still be saved. I don't have assurance that I can disobey the greatest command and still be saved.
---born on 3/23/13


Christan: I'll bring up a different matter, which is a bit out of the blue. I'll quite from an old quote:

Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

If we are sealed, with no free will, there would be no need for such letter

So Paul needed to write this BECAUSE they COULD grieve the Spirit and do wrong

So they at least had enough 'free will' to decide to grieve the Spirit
---Peter on 3/23/13


Michael: 'In order for you to lose something you must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. SINCE YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY IN RECIEVING OR KEEPING SALVATION,HOW CAN YOU LOSE IT?'

While I am not SURE I know how you mean it, I THINK you mean morally? Maybe?

But if you are given something that is not yours (salvation), God has every right (since Salvation is His) to leave you with salvation or to take it, if it is God's will

God has the RIGHT to take away everyone's salvation at any time - He owns salvation, and it is a gift

It is just that the Bible indicates that God will not, and His promises are very true
---Peter on 3/24/13


jerry, the bible teaches life everlasting when we are born again. when a Christian sins in the flesh, it grieves God and God will punish us for sins in the flesh. God will even turn our flesh over to satan for the destruction. He is our heavenly Father and He does punish His children.
---shira4368 on 3/23/13


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Oldblood, your brain cells and speech must be a little out of sync. You are slurring.

Your English makes no sense and that's because it's in tune with your "free-will", which to begin with doesn't even exist. And this is bad English: "SINCE YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY IN RECIEVING OR KEEPING SALVATION, HOW CAN YOU LOSE IT?" Here's why:

How are you being responsible for "receiving salvation" when it's God's gift of faith to the sinner that saves him? How? Tell me, did the sinner ask God for faith or was it by the grace of God, that the sinner receives faith from God? And if the sinner have to be given faith to believe, who's responsible for that gift? You or God?
---christan on 3/23/13


Youngblood, I will try one more time maybe you can understand it. Try reading real slow.
In order for you to lose something you must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. SINCE YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY IN RECIEVING OR KEEPING SALVATION,HOW CAN YOU LOSE IT?
---michael_e on 3/23/13


You are going to tell the world once you know God love.
Somehow you're going to want to leave it.
God love, really!
I just find that fascinating, no really, I do!
Just makes me wonder about the way people think about the power of, God love!
Peace --TheSeg on 3/23/13

Yup, I know what I am saying!
Satan was the #1 angel and in God's Glory. Knew God's love and still REJECTED God.

I don't wonder about God's love.
I wonder about PEOPLE'S LOVE.
---Nikki on 3/23/13


"You're in God hand and you're going to want to jump off.
Does this really make sense to any of you?" The Seg


Excellent point!

Doesn't it speaks volume of how "intelligent and logical" these souls who believe in the "free-will" are? It only proves the spiritual point that these lost souls are truly deluded and in denial of their state/condition to the truth of the Word.

As for these who "think they know God's love" cannot believe that it's because of His love that the sinner receives salvation and nothing nor no-one can separate them from God's love, unless you have "free-will". Doesn't that imply that man is more powerful than God? Eden all over again.
---christan on 3/23/13


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Nikki, I believe when we are saved we surrender our free will completely to God. He is able to KEEP ALL I have committed to Him against that day.

Once I've given my life to God through Christ...IT's HIS, and NO, I cannot take it back.

Many don't realize when we are crucified with Christ, our old man DIED, having no power at all to take anything back. A dead man can't take back anything. Our New Man, the NEW CREATURE is in fact eternal, and can never die or face the second death...because HE IS OUR LIFE. No longer (I).. But Christ who lives IN ME. Is what TRUE GRACE is all about. not sacraments.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/13


Nikki//How can you have free will to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, but God immediately takes your free will away as soon as you are Saved??
---
If you truly knew scripture you would see that upon the believers acceptance by Christ, he or she is sealed -a seal indicating ownership.

Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I can trust in our Lord that He will save me to the utmost. Hebrews 7:25

So I spend very little time being concerned about it - something your RCC and SDA people cannot.

Those that believe one can lose salvation are those that believe God will kill His own children whom He has begotten by His Spirit.
---e.lee7537 on 3/23/13


But, if you want to jump out of His hand God will not stop you.
Nikki

I wonder if people ever really think about what their saying.
You're in God hand and you're going to want to jump off.
Does this really make sense to any of you?

I see the difference here as knowing God and only thinking you know God.
The same as knowing the love of God and only thinking you do!
You are going to tell the world once you know God love.
Somehow you're going to want to leave it.
God love, really!

I just find that fascinating, no really, I do!
Just makes me wonder about the way people think about the power of, God love!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/23/13


Of course, in Roman Catholicism, participation in the sacraments are the means of grace and there be those that walk away from the Roman Church but not from God.
---e.lee7537 on 3/22/13
Your comment suggests the Sacraments are the only means of grace. God gives us graces before we realize we need Him.

Oddly you last sentence backs up Ruben's statement.
Luke 15. The son came to his sense thinking about his father's house. Luke 15:17 Which proves God gives us Graces to return home:RCC.
---Nikki on 3/23/13


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"...no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" is to say the sinner can thwart God's will. Now, isn't that a perfect definition of unbelief?---christan on 3/22/13

You are showing 2 persons around the Father's hand.
'God is saying no one else can take you out of His hands. If you want to stay in God's hand, God will protect you. But, if you want to jump out of His hand God will not stop you.
God respects FREE WILL at any time and point.

How can you have free will to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, but God immediately takes your free will away as soon as you are Saved??
Seems a like a TRAP to me.
---Nikki on 3/23/13


Bro. Trey, for about four months I have been trying to find out why James L speaks about the inheritance and why he mentions two kinds of people in heaven, and similar remarks. As it turns out he is speaking from a theological movement which is dividing Christ beloved body and bride into two groups that teach that every believer will eventually be placed into one of two distinct classes. It's origin go back to the 19th century or even earlier with the writings of men such as Robert Govett, D.M. Panton, G.H. Pember and G.H. Lang. It is a dispensational teaching traced back to the influence and writings of Zane Hodges, a former professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. The overcomers (believers) with the none overcomer (believers).
---Mark_V. on 3/23/13


Trey: There are several flaws in the OSAS theory.

First, If a person says "I've been saved" then they have set themselves up as the Judge of their own righteousness. They thus have usurped God's job, and have committed blasphemy.

Second, the Bible describes salvation as a three-step process:

1) Justification - Acceptance of Christ as substitute for the penalty of our sins - the born again experience.

2) Sanctification - Growing up in Christ - the daily walk with Him - being made ready for heaven.

3) Glorification - Putting on immortality at Jesus' second coming and going to heaven.

Being born again is the first step - not the final event. It ain't over 'til it's over!


---jerry6593 on 3/23/13


michael_e, being a young or old blood has nothing to do with salvation or understanding the Word of God. So don't get cocky.

You say you have the "responsibility" but Scripture in 1 Thessalonian 5:23,24 contradicts you right down to the core of your pride! It is God who will see to the end of the sinner He's saved, so where's your "responsibility"? "Faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it." Does it say "you will do it"? How can you when you're so filled with sin?

Where does it say in Scriptures that you are "responsible" for your salvation when God is the one who's so gracious and merciful to even save the sinner, even though none is deserving.
---christan on 3/23/13


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Ruben, your understanding of John 10 with regards to "His sheep" is seriously flawed.

This is what John 10:4 declares, "...He calleth his own sheep BY NAME, and leadeth them out." Christ knows His sheep "BY NAME"! How does He know? "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 - because the Father chose and gave them to His Son!

To say, "And the Father will let you walk away" even after Christ assured, "...no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand" is to say the sinner can thwart God's will. Now, isn't that a perfect definition of unbelief?
---christan on 3/22/13


//If God depended on the sinner to sanctify and change himself, no one is going to His kingdom.
---christan on 3/22/13//
Youngblood, I will try to make this so plain that maybe you can understand it
In order for you to lose something you must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. Since you have no responsibility in recieving it or keeping it, you can't lose it.Simple enough?
---michael_e on 3/22/13


James_L, statement and question cracks me up. Sorry to be so "ambiguous". :)

Let me try to help those with a limited vocabulary:

eternal = forever, life without end, unending, perpetual, endless, etc.

salvation = deliverance from destruction, deliverance from failure, to be delivered from sin and the penalty there of by Christ Jesus.

Hope this is helpful.
---trey on 3/22/13


Christian, He is speaking to the church.'we are born in sin and to be preserved for eternity ye must be born again. That is the only way we can be sanctified and preserved for eternity. We are sealed for eternity.
---shira4368 on 3/23/13


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"In order for us to lose something we must have the responsibility for keeping it secure." michael_e

This understanding of yours will be called into question with regards to salvation, if that's what you're referring to. Many will say, the sinner is "responsible" for the salvation God has given but this is what Scripture says:

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He that calleth you, who also will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24

If God depended on the sinner to sanctify and change himself, no one is going to His kingdom.
---christan on 3/22/13


Ruben//And the Father will let you walk away:

you fail to realize the extent God really loves those that are His children.

Like our earthly fathers, God as our heavenly Father will discipline those whom He loves.

Hebrews 12:6-8 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Of course, in Roman Catholicism, participation in the sacraments are the means of grace and there be those that walk away from the Roman Church but not from God.
---e.lee7537 on 3/22/13


There's a difference between being saved and a conversion experience.
---Cluny on 3/22/13
Please elaborate
---francis on 3/22/13


christan * "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

This is on going process not a one-time event!

Jesus says they hear, know and follow me. he does not say:

They heard I knew them and they followed me

christan * My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." John 10:27-30

And the Father will let you walk away:

"Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me." (LK 15:12)
---Ruben on 3/22/13


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my salvation is eternal. how many times are we suppose to be born again and how many times must Christ die for us? I am eternally saved.
---shira4368 on 3/22/13


//Once a person is born again// From another blog(the definition of "born again") that has as many definitions as there are posts, this question apparently can't be answered.
In order for us to lose something we must have the responsibility for keeping it secure. Otherwise, we did not lose it, someone else did. In regards to our salvation in the dispensation of grace, we see that we receive through Paul the message of salvation by grace.
---michael_e on 3/22/13


Lawrence
Mat_27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, (repented) himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent, thou shalt forgive him.


When a person does such things, they Are lost.
Psa_3:2 Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah.

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Joh_8:7 He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (or him!)
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/22/13


"Once a person is born again, is he or she guaranteed to be eternally saved?" Yes.
Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ: Phl 1:6
Jesus as High Priest and Saviour is "able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them." Hbr 7:25
---josef on 3/22/13


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Trey,
only a couple of weeks ago, Leej asked a question using this same ambiguous phrase eternally saved

I'll ask you the same thing I asked him. Can you please clarify what you mean?

Being saved from the lake of fire is eternal. Saved by His death. For believers only

Our resurrection is eternal. And the bible calls this being saved (Romans 5:10) Saved by His life. For everyone, even unbelievers.

Even our rewards and inheritance are called "salvation" in scripture, and it is eternal. But only for those believers whos faith is matured and fruitful

So could you please clarify what you mean when you use this phrase that is not found anywhere in scripure??
---James_L on 3/22/13


I have to agree with christan.
Once Saved Always Saved!

Why, because if you believe you can lose your salvation.
Well then, you really never believed you had it, did you?
You just believe you did for a fleeting moment.

Just like the seeds that fell by the wayside.
Satan came and took it from you.
So, you didn't lose it, you never really believe you had it!
Didn't you?

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
No one! But, many shall try!

I am persuaded, nay! I am convinced!
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Soon or later, you'll see it too!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/22/13


Judas was a believer - follower,
he went out and committed suicide. When a person does such things, they Are lost.
Such as once saved always saved, no works salvation, easy believism etc Are All Lies from here, 2nd.Cor. 11 v 14. The trinity prob even think the devil will be saved in the end. So Many Lies the devil has gave to his trinity churches, Rev.17 v's 4 - 6. The devil believes in 1 God & trembles, & he has his people believing in 2 - 3 gods. I hear from time to time, God the Father( which Is Correct ), god the son & god the holy spirit which IS Incorrect.
---Lawrence on 3/22/13


There's a difference between being saved and a conversion experience.

Most people confuse them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/22/13


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Trey, the problem is, so many don't know what BORN AGAIN is, including Christan , and give false definitions of Born Again that others question...with good reason.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/13


Christan, I agree when you said,

"Only work mongers will deny and reject the eternal security of the saint, casting doubt over the promises of God the Father, and calling Him a liar."

Here is why, they believe they came to Christ out of their own free will, their own works, because somehow they made a decision others didn't, and in so doing, they can walk away out of their own free will they claim they have, any time they want. One person even said, "I can walk away if I want" in contrast to what Jesus said,
"For He Himself said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" Where can the person go when Jesus will never leave them? They are either saved by God or they are not.
---Mark_V. on 3/22/13


One who's "born of the Spirit" not live eternally with Jesus Christ? It makes no sense whatsoever especially when the Spirit that gives the sinner life is the Spirit of God, who's an eternal being!

Only work mongers will deny and reject the eternal security of the saint, casting doubt over the promises of God the Father, and calling Him a liar. It was Christ who declared,

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
John 10:27-30
---christan on 3/21/13


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