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Is Free Will Biblical

Is free will scriptural? Can you give a biblical example of free will?

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 ---trey on 3/21/13
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Salvation- not only for Israel (mainly the lost sheep) - First chosen,
but for "all types/many/kind" of men who are called---last.

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature, rather serve one another in love.Gal 5:13

1 Tim 4:10

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (KJ)

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. (English Standard)
---char on 3/30/13


Ex21:5-6
And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go out free:
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges, he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post, and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul, and he shall serve him for ever.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning [His] promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Jn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

[...]were called to be free [...]serve one another in love.Gal 5:13
---char on 3/30/13


Elohyims Witness: Israel Isa 43
Warning to the whole world of (past/present)--adulterous affair-(Repeatedly)

Jer 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."

Mk 13(all)
14 "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it [he, who is Satan] ought not, (let Him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

You have a choice, and are told "to Flee" and "believe him Not"

Mk 13:21
---char on 3/30/13


But silly boy, if you truly believe God wrote onto Gentiles hearts,
---e.lee7537 on 3/30/13

Unlike you silly man, I believe what is written in the bible:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,

You question the word of God, I believe and Obey it

The bible says their obedience show that God wrote the law in their hearts, I have no questions at all about that, I believe it

You have doubt silly man
I have faith
---francis on 3/30/13


Death/Resurrection offers Salvation - Whole World,1Jn2:2,Jn 3:16 And Redeemed Israel from Her divorce Heb9:16-17, Bk Hosea

Jn 16:7-11 "[...]I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you, but if I depart, I will send Him unto you."
"And when He is come, He Will Reprove the World of Sin/righteousness, and of judgment:"
"Of sin, because they believe not on Me,"
"Of righteousness, because I go to My Father, and ye see Me no more,"
"Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."

Heb 9:21 "Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry."
---char on 3/30/13




"whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

Acts 2:18 "And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy:"

Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "
---char on 3/30/13


Out of all types(Election)- Elohyim will speak thru -In Spirit/truth
Mk13- Ysha, gives His disciples(chosen), and for us today the combined (chosen/called-Election) ---the seven seals(Revelation) that mark the end of this eion age/flesh

Election:

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit].

Matt 20(all)
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Matt22(all)
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
---char on 3/30/13


Gordon: Instead of humanoid "free willers" (investigators), Mark & his fellow drones have been programmed to see us as cyborgs (cybernetic organisms) whereas our sole purpose in life must be to function as drones of the Collective/Blog Hive.

Since the Collective has wired/programmed them with religious mental implants (false doctrines) they're incapable of free, independent thoughts (free will), actions or self determination (decision making). They live only to support the will of the Blog Collective. Resistance is futile! All "free willer" resistors must be terminated (destroyed). The Blog forces captured humans, by assimulation, into the Collective by connecting their souls to "the Hive mind".
---Leon on 3/30/13


---e.lee7537 on 3/30/13
It says a lot about you, that you do not feel a moral obligation towards God, that you should:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, and not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:

Not even a moral obligation to honour and worship god as your creator
---francis on 3/30/13


"christan would have the simple minded believing that God brought and nourished his children, his nation, in rebellion and corruption." Nana

You speak like fool described in the Word of God. Jesus must have been "simple minded" when He taught, "...for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

You see, this is all the more just when God's wrath falls on unbelievers and mockers like you, if not saved by His grace through faith in Christ, all the more sweet. Didn't He say to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you..."?

Do continue with your mocking...
---christan on 3/31/13




Those whom Moses delivered out of Egypt were already given the PROMISE of the promise land. It was theirs for the taking. Already promised to ALL ISRAEL. But Not ALL Isreal entered in. Was that because it was God's fault that those who did not enter in were in fact REALLY not promised the Land? Or was it because that which was theirs to take, THEY CHOSE not to take it.

God did not put them in the land against their will. They in fact had to get up off their hind ends and GO IN, and take it. THEY SAW it. So seeing was not the issue. It was right in front of them, so how can anyone blame God for those who DIED IN THEIR SIN In the wilderness?

God did everything possible, except put them there against their will.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/13


Francis //
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
---

The verse speaks ONLY of moral law - that which is inherent in all mankind.

But silly boy, if you truly believe God wrote onto Gentiles hearts, then did they observe the Sabbath commandments. Sorry, but your religious views have been distorted by human reasoning much the same as Kathr4453.

And yes, there is that written onto believers hearts to seek their creator, but in not finding Him they create their own god.
---e.lee7537 on 3/30/13


Bro. Richard, great answers. God is always in control of people's destinies. God allowed Israel to be slaves before He step in. Thousands died. He orders Moses to tell Pharaoh to let the people go. Behind the scenes God harden's Pharaoh heart to not let the people go. This goes on for a long time. Finally God removes He restrain on Pharaoh and to let the people go. Once they leave, God hardens Pharaoh's heart again to go after the slaves. God finally destroyes Pharaoh's army. What was God's answer concerning Pharaoh?
"For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens" Rom. 9:17,18
---Mark_V. on 3/30/13


Bro. Elee, you are absolutely correct. Millions of people never received the grace of God for salvation and died in their sins. Second if all received it, then all would be saved and as we know they are not. In Acts 16:, we learn that it is the Spirit of God who directs where the gospel should go. When Paul and Silas were sent by the Church of Jerusalem they went through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia, After that they tried to go to Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them. All those people from those other cities who never heard the gospel died in their sins. By permission of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/30/13


Thank you Francis. Leej fails to understand Romans 1-2, as well as taking God at His word.

The great commission is to go ye into the whole world and preach the Gospel. Now did God accomplish what HE said to do, or is God dependent on Man to obey that command?

You flaunt the Sovereignty of God on one hand where God is not dependent on man, and on the other say God failed because man did not go.?

Or can we believe The Sovereignty of God's Grace has been made known to all men whether man was involved in spreading it or not?

Kind of a catch 22 there for you Leej .
---kathr4453 on 3/30/13


Shira, Christan fails to understand this:

He's placed his own salvation on the fact that God hardened Pharoah's heart, and somehow he thinks that qualifies HIM for salvation. WRONG.

Salvation is TYPED with Israel crossing the Jordan into the land of Promise. Hebrews 3-4. THAT has nothing whatsoever to do with Pharoah.

Because even after they were delivered out of Egypt, ISRAEL hardened their own hearts by being FAITHLESS not believing God's promise of ENTERING IN the promised land.

Moses came to take Israel to the promise land, not just get then out of Egypt.

Many do come out, but NEVER ENTER IN. You have to ENTER IN to be saved. Christan himself is still stuck in the wilderness.
---kathr4453 on 3/30/13


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Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world,


Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)
---francis on 3/30/13


kath4453//The Grace of God that leads to salvation has been made known to all men . Lets not forget these.

Totally wrong! There are people on this earth that have never heard nor will they ever hear the message of salvation.

Romans 10:13-15 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!
---e.lee7537 on 3/29/13


Isaiah 1:2_4 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward."

christan would have the simple minded believing that God brought and nourished his children, his nation, in rebellion and corruption.
---Nana on 3/29/13


Christian, I have already read the Word of God and I still know God sent His Son to die for the WHOLE world. we can have power from God if we stay in prayer and do God's will.
---shira4368 on 3/29/13


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Shira 4368 - If you go to Romans 9:17 - It's say's - Even for this purpose have I raise thee up, that I might shew my power in thee.

Now is God by this , Showing God will being done, God never plan to save Pharaoh ? When Pharaoh hardens his heart, is this not the nature of un save person heart ?

Romans 9:22 - What if God willing to shew his wrath, and make his power known, endured with much longsuffing the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction.

Exodus 4:21 And the lord said to Moses , When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that I do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand, But I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
---RICHARDC on 3/29/13


shira, I suggest you read Exodus from chapter 4 and see if you can understand the chronology of how Moses was commanded of by God to go to Pharaoh. Critically, the word "harden" starts from verse 21 and after that, it appears no less than 18 times by which time the Scripture tells us the effect of God's hardening which was acted out by Pharaoh.

This lands credence to Isaiah 46:11, when God declared, "the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

And if Pharaoh already had hardened his own heart, what purpose would it serve God to harden him after? Makes no sense!
---christan on 3/29/13


Mark V, Is that true? Does GOD direct you to sin? You've said before that you are a "sinner" and that you are "not a Saint" (and "Saint" simply means "one set-apart unto GOD"). So, we all know that your life is one of daily sin. Are they habitual deliberate sins? Do you have any intention of trying to ever be an overcomer of your sin? Now, since you have no free-will, and it's GOD that makes you do what you do, then, it's basically GOD making you sin. Is that right? HE causes you to continue on in sinning, 'cause, afterall, you can't help it. You have no free-will choice. You're just a poor ol' sinner. Is that how the Victorious Life in Christ is supposed to play out??
---Gordon on 3/29/13


Leon, you can call me all the names you want but that does not change the God of the Bible. Most of you who believe in freedom from God do the same thing, call me names. You do not see anyone who speaks for the God of the Bible calling me names. They know the real God.
You say I do not understand but it is you who does not want to accept the words of God. You bypass them so that you can make your theology fit the god you created in your mind.
To this day not a one of you has give one passage where God tells us He gave humans free will. You know why? Because He didn't. You are either a slave to sin, or a slave to God, you are never free.
---Mark_V. on 3/29/13


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Christian, when moses was leading God's people out of Egypt, pharaoh hardened his own heart but when he kept doing it over and over, God then hardened pharaoh's heart. God got tired of fooling with pharaoh.
---shira4368 on 3/29/13


Leon, is that your answer to Acts 4:26-28,"quote from Scripture but have no real understanding of God's word"? You didn't and couldn't even comment on those verses.

You're in denial that your imaginary "free-will" is actually attached to God's free-will to do as He pleases with your soul? Tell me, what "free-will" did Pilot, Herod and those involved in Christ's death had, when it was God who "gathered them to do His will?"

2 Timothy 3:5-7 is precisely referring to you. That's simply because you have demonstrated in your ignorance that you think you have a "free-will" when Acts 4:26-28 says otherwise?
---christan on 3/28/13


Markie: Temper, temper! You heard me, YOU ARE ONE BIZZARE, TWISTED LITTLE FELLA... :)

Chris: You, like Markie, quote from Scripture but have no real understanding of God's word.

2 Timothy 3:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
---Leon on 3/28/13


Leon, let's see if you can fathom the Sovereignty of God and that the man will be held accountable, regardless. I'll use the account of Christ's death from Acts 4:26-28,

"The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers WERE GATHERED TOGETHER AGAINST THE LORD, and AGAINST HIS CHRIST. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, WERE GATHERED TOGETHER, FOR TO DO WHATSOEVER THY HAND AND THY COUNSEL DETERMINED BEFORE TO BE DONE."

Isn't the Scripture explicit about who was behind the death of HIS BELOVED SON? And yet those "GATHERED TOGETHER"by Him were held accountable for Christ's death?
---christan on 3/28/13


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Leon, anyone who finds the words of the Lord bizzare is understandable. They are looking for freedom from God. Only unbelievers look for freedom from God, and they demand it. The Words of God's sovereignty are very clear. You have the guts to call God a liar. You Leon cannot hide from God.
"For I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them" (Eze. 11:5). Man would strip Deity of His Omniscience if they could, just like you and others do. For the wicked do as naturally hate this Divine perfections as much as they are compelled to acknowledge it. They wish there might be no Witness of their sins. They seek to banish such a God from their thoughts. Good luck, Oh, I forgot, there is no luck with God.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/13


Ruben, you classically demonstrate to everyone here how you quote a verse from Proverbs 16:9 and not understand nor believe in what Solomon wrote. After quoting you wrote:

"Yes he does however we have to do the stepping: Jesus says " If we deny ourselfs, pick up your cross and follow him""

Can't you see that if you "deny Christ", it's because God has purposed it according to Proverbs 16:9? That He never meant for you to believe in His Son and hence that effect of unbelief will act out in denial? Or are you in denial?

"...the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."
---christan on 3/27/13


Mark_V * "A man's heart deviseth his way: "but the Lord directeth his steps" He directs the steps of every single individual.

Yes he does however we have to do the stepping:

Jesus says " If we deny ourselfs, pick up your cross and follow him"

Jesus says "if you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love"

Mark_V. * Then say, "You can return if you repented from your sins:" So your works saves you again, now nice of you.

" if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us" 1 JHN 1:9

"For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he had done. ."
---Ruben on 3/27/13


"...MarkV, so you say when you SIN, the Lord directed you to sin? Hardly...See how bazaar your thinking is? Study to show yourself approved MarkV RIGHTLY not WRONGLY div[id]ing the word of Truth."
---kathr4453 on 3/27/13

Bravo Kathr! It should be apparent to you that Mark's comments here & elsewhere on CN blogs are "bizzare".
---Leon on 3/27/13


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"A man's heart deviseth his way: "but the Lord directeth his steps" He directs the steps of every single individual.////

MarkV, so you say when you SIN, the Lord directed you to sin? Hardly.

Does God direct the footsteps of child molesters to molest your children? If so, MarkV, why then do you hate perverts? Why not Hate God for forcing the perverts to do as they do. If you say God willed them to do it, then why are you objecting to the Will of God. ONLY those who DO the Will of the Father go to heaven...SO perverts will be in Heaven according to YOU.

See how bazaar your thinking is? Study to show yourself approved MarkV RIGHTLY not WRONGLY diving the word of Truth.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/13


Mark_V. * Ruben, you say people can jump out of God's hands,
"No Mark, God is always in control, but he does not control you." If His always in control and doesn't control man then He is not always in control. Hello? You reject the Truth.

Mark,

In Luke 15:12 the Son ask the Father for his share, the Father did what the Son ask for. He did not say 'I am control of you therefore you can not get what you want'.

In John gospel chapter 6 verses 60-66, the disciples of Jesus said " This is hard to understand, and they walk no more with Jesus!.Jesus did not say to them I have control of you, therefore you cannot walk away.

You reject the Truth.:)
---Ruben on 3/27/13


Ruben, you say people can jump out of God's hands,
"No Mark, God is always in control, but he does not control you." If His always in control and doesn't control man then He is not always in control. Hello? You reject the Truth.
"A man's heart deviseth his way: "but the Lord directeth his steps" He directs the steps of every single individual. He says,
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: "and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35). You say sinful man can stay His hand. Nonesense

Then say, "You can return if you repented from your sins:" So your works saves you again, now nice of you.
---Mark_V. on 3/27/13


Yes, Paul is teaching eternal security here in those verses you pulled. He 's not teaching selection.

The Grace of God that leads to salvation has been made known to all men . Lets not forget these.

I can make scripture say only those wearing purple slippers are the elect...IF I WANTED TO.

But we need to make sure we believe ALL SCRIPTURE Leej, not just verses that promote one side or another. gosh we know even selected scripture says one can lose their salvation. You keep balancing those verses with others.

Find the balance, put all in the CORRECT place, and ya know what IT DOES FIT...you just have to know how to RIGHTLY divide the word of truth.

When I see the word DIVIDE, it doesn't mean in your favor.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


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kathr4453//Only those Born of God...well we can go on and on here

But NONE of these truths even remotely suggest you were that before you were ever born. or that you came into the world already in possession of these things.
----
"I (Paul) have been sent to proclaim faith to those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives. This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God-who-2 does not lie-promised them BEFORE the world began. Titus 1:1b

Be careful if you come to believe what the Scripture teaches, you may end up being a Calvinist.
---e.lee7537 on 3/26/13


Only those that are born by God's Spirit are the elect.//

ok, and only those Born Of God are Sons of God

Only those Born of God have Eternal Life

Only those Born of God are a New Creture

Only those Born of God...well we can go on and on here

But NONE of these truths even remotely suggest you were that before you were ever born. or that you came into the world already in posession of these things.

Here's the clincher....it will take great meditation.

HELL was not made for man...so what is that saying. GOD NEVER predetermined beforehand Hell for man.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


e.lee7537 * Babies really are not able to make such decision, sprinkling water over a child does not not not cause that child to be born of God.

What you are saying then is the OT Covenant is greater than the New Covenant, as you know 8 days old babies were circumcised into everlasting covenant.

God even says that those who are uncircumcised have broken my covenant. By the way it was the faith of the parents who brought them to be circumcise.

Jesus himself tell us in MT 18:2-5 " Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." It is strange for Jesus to say we have to be like children but then exclude the very children he just say we have to be, don't you think?
---Ruben on 3/26/13


Only those that are born by God's Spirit are the elect.

However, that is a decision that one has to make. (John 1:12)


Babies really are not able to make such decision, and sorry Nikki, sprinkling water over a child does not not not cause that child to be born of God.

The ultimate judgment is really God's. If He wants to grant those who die in infancy eternal life, that is his sovereign decision.

Those that believe infants will go to heaven, should consider sending them there by killing them.
---e.lee7537 on 3/26/13


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I have to say that Jesus only died for some - the elect
---Peter on 3/26/13

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
---francis on 3/26/13


Jesus died for all. Once and for all. BUT only those Justified by His Blood are the recipients of Eternal Life. The Blood is there, however not all want to believe. They think it is foolishness. There are no limitations on Faith other than the one who has no faith IN CHRIST.


Example of free will...
Me merciful to me a SINNER...and this man went away JUSTIFIED.

No scripture tells one they have no free will.

We were given two examples here, one who thought he was GOOD ENOUGH and teh other who knew he was a sinner. It's the sinner who is Justified, not the righteous, or self righteous.
---kathr4453 on 3/26/13


Why is this so hard to understand?

Does God cause anyone to sin?

Is sin not an exercise of my personal will?
---Mark_Eaton on 3/26/13


I have to say that Jesus only died for some - the elect
---Peter on 3/26/13

I have heard this statement many times. Please tell me, are you saying that some babies are born damn to hell regardless what they do?

When I say babies, I mean do you mean souls who live until adult ages, but are cursed from birth since they will never have eternal life with God as you might believe as the elect.

I truly which to know your thoughts.
---Nikki on 3/26/13


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Bro. Willi, you are correct when you say,

"Therefore, if we are separate from God so we are working our own wills . . . this is un-Biblical free will. Very true, I mentioned this before, "it is freedom from God" to be autonomus, a law unto oneself. And you also said,

"In self-produced willing, this is anti-Luke 9:23, because Jesus says to deny our selves which would include our own human-capability wills."
That is what is so amazing, the very people who are to be doing the will of God, want their freedom from God. Not the unbelievers, but those who claim to be believers.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/13


-shira4368 on 3/25/13: You posted a question which I will answer because I feel I should answer it

I have to say that Jesus only died for some - the elect
---Peter on 3/26/13


Sis, Shira, there is no such thing as riding the fence. A person is either saved by the grace of God or he is not. Here you asked me,
"markv, I have a question. do you believe God sent His Son to save the whole world from sin?
Of course not. There is a few reasons why He didn't come to save the world.
1. By the time He came millions had died in their sins already all through history, and for those who are dead, there is no second chances. That's why He couldn't have come to save the whole world.
2. If He came to save the whole world and many are going to hell, He is doing a very lousy job of saving anyone. Which is not true since Jesus is God and He never fails in saving anyone.
---Mark_V. on 3/26/13


shira4368, why do you add on the "whole world" when Jesus just said "For God so love the world..."? He didn't say, "For God so love the whole world", did He? So ask yourself why didn't Christ say the "whole world"?

Scripture has the answer to that:

"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." - did the Father gave "everyone" to His Son? If He did then no one should be going to hell and yet we are told multitudes will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Which means those were never given by the Father to His Son.

So, how did you conclude God is going to save the whole world?
---christan on 3/26/13


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Hi, Trey (c: In sin, our wills are free from God > "free in regard to righteousness" (in Romans 6:20), in separation from God.

But in Jesus, we have > "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Therefore, if we are separate from God so we are working our own wills . . . this is un-Biblical free will.

In self-produced willing, this is anti-Luke 9:23, because Jesus says to deny our selves which would include our own human-capability wills.
---willie_c: on 3/25/13


markv, I have a question. do you believe God sent His Son to save the whole world from sin? or do you believe that Jesus died for a few people? please don't tread water, I want to know then I will have peace in my heart about you. all your post suggest you ride the fence on being born again. thanks
---shira4368 on 3/25/13


Nana, You say
1."Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear" FALSE, it apply's only to those that spiritually hear.
2:
"Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner," FALSE: Since Faith comes from God.
3: "Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect" The call is universal, but only those with faith from God belief.
4, "Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace," FALSE, God has been graceful throughout History to everyone.
5."Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect" God loves the world He created but loves His Children more, those born of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/25/13


1stCliff & Nana, your laundry list of "free-will" theory is simply filled with filth and nothing more than lies and deception. This can be simply summed up in one very important verse about how sinners who were once unbelievers became "believers". Ready?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: AND AS MAN AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED." Acts 13:48

You can come up with a thousand list of your "free-will" theory of how you became a believer, but Scripture calls you liars if other than Acts 13:48 has taken place.
---christan on 3/25/13


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1 Corinthians 1:18 - FOR the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

John 10:26 - BUT ye believe not, because ye are not my sheep, as said to you.

Revelation 13:8 - AND all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 2:8 FOR by grace are ye saved though faith, and that NOT of yourselves, it is a gift of God.

Romans 9:11 FOR the children being not born yet having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
---RICHARDC on 3/25/13


"A hyper-Calvinist is someone who either:

Denies that the gospel call applies to all who hear, OR
Denies that faith is the duty of every sinner, OR
Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal), OR
Denies that there is such a thing as "common grace," OR
Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect. "

From: A Primer on Hyper-Calvinism
Copyright 1998 by Phillip R. Johnson ( Calvinist, edits most of MacArthur's books since 1981)
---Nana on 3/24/13


"Christ contradicts your understanding when He prayed to the Father saying, "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours." Confused? Not I."
---christan on 3/24/13

John 17:20_21 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,
That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

Confused?
---Nana on 3/24/13


Christian,You "fix" the word world to suit your own ideas.
First of all the word in Jn.3.16 is past tense.
If you were right the word would be "loves" (it is not)
The "world" that he "loved" is the one He created and intended to be ongoing "till Adam and satan derailed His perfect plan.
So He "gave" His only begotton Son to rectify the damage and the world that he loved will be reinstated to continue forever!
"What I have purposed I will do"Isaia 46.11
---1st_cliff on 3/24/13


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1stCliff, the word "world" used in John 3:16 and Ephesians 1:4 are of a different context to each other.

John 3:16 "world" is with regards to His elect who are scattered all over the "world", hence the reference, "For God so loved the world". As for you "free-willers", you understand the "world" to be everyone in the "world". And if you're right, then no one should be going to hell, but is that the case? NO! So, God doesn't love everyone, right?

Christ contradicts your understanding when He prayed to the Father saying, "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours." Confused? Not I.
---christan on 3/24/13


1Cliff, your very wrong. You formed a god in your mind to your liking. You give (John 3:16) as if the passage is going to proof anything different. Of course God loved what He created. Why would He create something He didn't know was going to turn out bad? His perfect. No one nor no thing is perfect. If someone or something can defeat the purposes of God, that something or someone would be God and God would stop been God.
You sound like you belief you are the perfect Architect and God is not. That He created a plan that is breaking down every second, and has to go to His second plan and then third and so on. That is the God you have in your mind because you are perfect and He is not. That's why you deny many passages in the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13


God never forces Himself on no one. God controls everyone. The very breath we take is by the will of God. God enable us to love Him." Before we love God, He has to love us first. Jesus said to them who claimed they had God as their Father,
"If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God, nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you "are not able" to listen to My word" (John 8:42,43)
On their own, they do not have the ability to love God for they do not belong to God. God has to love them first otherwise they remind at emnity against God, that is why they cannot understand Jesus words and follow Him.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13


Christian, Take a look at the last word in your post to me 3/23/13,all in capitals, and tell me that's not an insulting shout!
You're still dodging the question about "world"(Jn.3.16)
Plus **before God even created the world** still doesn't define "world"!
Your interpretation is just yours not the bible's!
---1st_cliff on 3/23/13


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Not all is free will, and to some extent we are products of our environment, but we do have some choice. I once set two traps for a mouse. One, a slap trap. The other, a living trap. The mouse chose neither. Instead it got stuck in a glue trap that I bought for roaches. I thought to flush him down the toilet, but the cute little mouse screamed for dear life as I shock the trap over the toilet. I humanely put him outside, but because the bitter cold he froze to death the next morning. We do have some choices, but how do we believe what we don't believe. How do we get faith where we lack it?
---born on 3/23/13


1stCliff, I'm "shouting insults at you"? Boy, you sure know how to flatter yourself, don't you? Telling you how erroneous your understanding and how you have contradicted the Scriptures is "shouting insults at you"? Wow! I'm truly baffled.
---christan on 3/23/13


1stCliff, you're exposing yourself as a false christian the more our conversation continues.

There's only one understanding to "before the foundations of the world" and that's before God even created the world.

You say, "The command to "do not be loving the world or things in the world " was not talking about planet earth!" And neither is God telling you to be a tree-hugger! Where in any of my blogs do I advocate not taking care of the things that God has created and provided for us?

And you think after Noah's days all things are well? Go read 2 Peter 3 and tell me otherwise. Talk about jumping to conclusions, you're leaps and bounds in that perspective!
---christan on 3/23/13


Christian,You can shout insults at me but it doesn't change the facts that you're defaming our creator and will pay the price!
Jn. 3 16 says "God so loved the world....." You haven't the foggiest idea which "world" God loved (past tense) Soooo shallow your understanding, it's pathetic!
---1st_cliff on 3/23/13


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1stCliff, call it whatever you want, but Solomon declared: "The Lord hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." And you think this excluded satan? Get real!

"Look around at this whole world and say that God planned it all,death,disease,war,famine etc....your god is evil!"

My God is evil? O, far be from it! He's SOVEREIGN! He has told me through Isaiah 46:11, "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

You know what Christ calls people like you? HYPOCRITES!
---christan on 3/23/13


Christian, You need to be careful, you might break a leg jumping to conclusions!
World (cosmos) does not mean planet earth in scripture!
The "foudation" of what "world" is this scripture referring to?
The command to "do not be loving the world or things in the world " was not talking about planet earth!
We need to love and take care of our earth, our home!
The world of Noah's day was destroyed , but we're still living on the same planet! Get it???
---1st_cliff on 3/23/13


1stCliff, do you even read beyond the OT or are you like some who's stucked to the OT? Here, read this from the epistle of Peter, which is in the NT by the ways:

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world".

If Christ was "foreordained", "for He shall save his people from their sins", wouldn't it then mean that Adam was purposed to fall or how would sin have entered into this world? And who purposed all this? Time and circumstances? Ya, right!
---christan on 3/23/13


Bro. Trey, free will is not Scriptural. Because the will of man is not free. I really don't know why they call God God since they belief they are in charge of their own destiney, when it is God who gives and take life. The only reason we live to our age is by the will of God. A God who knows all things, and never learns, finding out through time something new every second of the day is pretty rediculous. Can a baby be in charge of his destiney with his free will? Millions upon millions have died without having the opportunity to make a choice, how can they be in charge of their own destiney? Shear nonesense. To suppose God did not know Adam would sin, is to say He is not God or to say He stopped been God for a few minutes.
---Mark_V. on 3/23/13


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Christian, Go ahead and poke fun at God with your nonsensical belief.
You neglected to mention the main player in this whole scenario...satan! Of course he had no free will either but was "planted" by God to make this "play" a little more exciting ,right?
Look around at this whole world and say that God planned it all,death,disease,war,famine etc....your god is evil!
---1st_cliff on 3/23/13


God is love!

1Jo 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

But most certainly God will not force His love on anyone.

And that is clearly one area that we are free to exercise our will.
---e.lee7537 on 3/23/13


micha9344, that's their "free-will" god which in the first place is no god at all, but only a god of their fantasy and imagination. A god that was supposed to have created the world and lost all control of his creatures because he gave them the "free-will" to do as they please.

Funny thing though, his creation called Adam "chose" to die instead of live - doesn't speak well of how intelligent that "free-will" acted out, does it? And only those who exercise their "free-will" are good enough to go to his kingdom. Wow! Isn't this their god who's enslave to the man's "free-will"?

Most definitely not even close to the God of the Bible!
---christan on 3/22/13


micha, **What kind of god is he?** The kind of God that allowed Adam to make his own decision! To say this whole life/death thing was orchestrated before creation is utter nonsense and just plain stupid!
---1st_cliff on 3/22/13


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Christian, **who is the blasphemer now?**
You are if your saying this whole Eden episode was choreographed by God like a grade B movie all scripted before creation!
No wonder there are so many other religions when people like you are trying to sell this one as Christianity!
I'm sure they will accept you as a member of Baha'i or Unitarian!
---1st_cliff on 3/22/13


"And if God is reacting to human decisions, what kind of god is he?"
---micha9344 on 3/22/13

Apparently people make of God whatever they imagine!
Isaiah 1:2_3 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider."

"What kind of god is he"? In those verses, he is presented as a father. He is also rightful and merciful only asking of his children, "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil" Yeah , just reacting as any father would.
---Nana on 3/22/13


So Christ wasn't chosen from the foundation of the earth to be our saviour?
I mean if God did not know about Adam sinning before he did, then God could not have planned for it, correct?
And if God is reacting to human decisions, what kind of god is he?
---micha9344 on 3/22/13


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