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Mental Impairment Crimes

Our legal system lessens punishment for crimes committed by those mentally impaired. Does God consider mental impairment, too? Scripture?

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 ---Geraldine on 3/23/13
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strongax, I don't disagree with you about saul in the old testament. I know he had an evil spirit and he wanted david dead. sorry if I wasn't clear. sometimes I have a tendency to not make my words clear. sorry I was confusing to you.
---shira4368 on 3/28/13


shira4368:

born said: Saul was troubled by an evil spirit and was soothed by a harp and would throw his spear intending to pin David.

You replied: born, how do you know paul was oppressed by a demon. the bible does not say what the thorn in his flesh was.

He never mentioned Paul. He mentioned Saul. This sounds like you thought born was talking about the new testament Saul/Paul, rather than the old testament Saul. Hence, it sounded like you were confusing his intention.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/13


ok, I get where you are coming from now. thanks for the correction.
---shira4368 on 3/28/13


Shira, I think you misunderstood. The demon oppressed Saul that Born was talking about was King Saul of the Old Testament, not the Saul of the New Testament. He was not saying the apostle Paul was demon oppressed.
---Jed on 3/28/13


strongax, I know who saul was in the new testiment and who he was in the old testiment. saul in old testiment was a king...saul in the new testiment is saul and after he was saved, his name was paul. now that you know, have a good day.
---shira4368 on 3/28/13




shira4368:

I think you are confusing two different people. Old testament King Saul (that born was talking about), and new testament Saul who later became Paul the Apostle (that you were talking about).

1 Samuel 16:14 (also 16:15,23, 18:10, 19:9)
But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/13


born, how do you know paul was oppressed by a demon. the bible does not say what the thorn in his flesh was. many think he was partially blind but still no one knows.
---shira4368 on 3/27/13


\\We are talking about people who have ALREADY committed crimes.\\

That was not made clear in what you wrote, Jed.

Seems there was a movie starring Tom Cruise (which I didn't see) about a dystopian society where people were arrested, tried, and imprisoned for what they MIGHT do.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/26/13


There is mentally impaired and there is demon-possessed. Saul was troubled by an evil spirit and was soothed by a harp and would throw his spear intending to pin David. The Bible says, "Blessed are the poor in spirit." It speaks of Rachel in Ramah weeping and of the saints asking "How long?" But of Satan entering people and God lessening the punishment for that? NO. But now mentally ill people who have no history of crime are charged with crime in owning a gun for the crime of being mental ill. PROFILING. I do not think cops should have guns or soldiers should have guns as half of them are not mentally stable.
---born on 3/27/13


well I will defend a downs syndrome person. they have brilliant minds. I know a guy with downs and he is a born again Christian and wow, what a testimony he is to the world. he has a brilliant mind.
---shira4368 on 3/26/13




Hitler thought his genocides were benefitting the world. ---Cluny on 3/26/13

Are you suggesting Hitler is excused by that thought process?

You cannot imprison a person for what he MIGHT do--only for what he has actually done.
---Cluny on 3/26/13


We are talking about people who have ALREADY committed crimes. Whether they have been deemed mentally ill or not is irrelevant. Either a) they knew full well what they were doing was murder and deserve the consequences, or b) they think it's okay to kill people and therefore are an even worse danger to society. It could be argued that anyone who is willing to commit a murder would have to be mentally ill in order to actually do it. Where do you draw the line?
---Jed on 3/26/13


AHH--but it is entirely possible that a severely mentally ill person might not think that his killings WERE in fact murder. His lack of grasp of reality is one of the signs of mental illness.
---Cluny on 3/26/13

I firmly believe that God has placed in us a conscience that even though it can be seared and scarred, still functions even with mental impairment.

I think we see what happens with mental impairment when we see a down-syndrome person or an intoxicated person.

Both have their mental faculties impaired. The down-syndrome is a functional impairment and leaves the person generally pleasant and law-abiding. The intoxicated person generally has the opposite characteristics. They are un-inhibited and rebellious.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/26/13


\\EVERYONE, including the most severely mentally ill, know that murder is illegal and they know the consequences for committing murder. \\

AHH--but it is entirely possible that a severely mentally ill person might not think that his killings WERE in fact murder. His lack of grasp of reality is one of the signs of mental illness.

Hitler thought his genocides were benefitting the world.

\\And IF someone somehow DID NOT know that murder was wrong, then they definitely need to be kept away from society for the simple danger that they present.\\

No one is arguing that society must be protected, but you cannot imprison a person for what he MIGHT do--only for what he has actually done.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/26/13


StrongAxe, none of that changes the fact that the person willfully took another life. EVERYONE, including the most severely mentally ill, know that murder is illegal and they know the consequences for committing murder. And IF someone somehow DID NOT know that murder was wrong, then they definitely need to be kept away from society for the simple danger that they present.
---Jed on 3/25/13


\\if someone is mentally ill to commit a crime, it should have been recognized long before the crime occurred.\\

You mean like the young man who killed his own mother, school children, and then himself in Connecticut?

What you are expecting here is for people to have the gift of fortune telling, because this violent behavior is NOT typical of autism.

Be realistic, shira.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/25/13


Jed:

You wrote:

Mental illness is no excuse to commit murder. If you are that crazy and sick then you should not be in public anyways and need to be put away for the simple fact that you are a danger to the people around you.

This presumes that the person is rational enough to be able to reach such a conclusion rationally, and prevent behavior (such as going out in public) that could provoke criminal activity. This is sometimes possible (for example, people on psych meds who choose to go off them, alcoholics who choose to take a drink, etc.) but for people who are mentally ill and NOT being treated, they may either not realize they are sick, or not realize certain behavior is wrong.
---StrongAxe on 3/25/13


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if someone is mentally ill to commit a crime, it should have been recognized long before the crime occurred. if a persons family can't see it, how is a jury going to see it? many who are mentally ill don't murder. sometimes that is a cop out. just excuses excuses to keep someone from paying for their crimes. most who kill have nothing wrong with them except pure evil and it has nothing to do with mental illness.
---shira4368 on 3/25/13


A jury still has to be convinced that the evidence is sufficient to rule that a person was mentally ill and thus not responsible for their actions.

Mental illness defense often does not work.
---e.lee7537 on 3/25/13


A mental illness defense should NEVER work. Mental illness is no excuse to commit murder. If you are that crazy and sick then you should not be in public anyways and need to be put away for the simple fact that you are a danger to the people around you.
---Jed on 3/25/13


Geraldine, only God Himself can sort out such matters with both justice and mercy.

I myself look for His mercy, and I pray He bestow it upon all and not only myself.

You might consider adopting the same policy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/13


Jed //The sad fact that this is how the legal system works is quite disgusting. If you want to get off easy for killing, claim a mental illness. Just sick.

---
A jury still has to be convinced that the evidence is sufficient to rule that a person was mentally ill and thus not responsible for their actions.

Mental illness defense often does not work.
---e.lee7537 on 3/25/13


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Cluny, how Geraldine wants God to deal with her own sins is pointless. His rules apply regardless. We can comfort one another while the consequences roll, like children that we are and learn to do better.
---Geraldine on 3/24/13


The sad fact that this is how the legal system works is quite disgusting. If you want to get off easy for killing, claim a mental illness. Just sick.
---Jed on 3/24/13


\\Cluny, I am not a legal expert, but simply wondering about whether with God it is simply crime-perpetrator-sentence, with no weighing of the perpetrator's mental state at the time of the crime (sin).
---Geraldine on 3/24/13\\

There is a very obvious answer question:

How do you want God to deal with your OWN sins? Then pray that He will deal with other people's sins and crimes the same way.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/13


We have much the same situation to consider with those that are under-aged. For instance, what do you do with a 10 year old that killed his parents?

The answer really lies with what the parole board believes. They all too often, release elderly prisoners who were sentenced to life for murder but believed no longer to be a threat to society.

Mentally imparted that commit crimes are often sentenced to prisons that specialize in mental health patients.
---e.lee7537 on 3/24/13


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Cluny, I am not a legal expert, but simply wondering about whether with God it is simply crime-perpetrator-sentence, with no weighing of the perpetrator's mental state at the time of the crime (sin).
---Geraldine on 3/24/13


You're right, Peter.

False witness includes both perjury and slander.

However, I was asking Geraldine.

No harm done.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/24/13


Murder

Theft

False witness
---Peter on 3/24/13


Believe it or not, Geraldine, our civil and criminal laws are NOT based on the Bible.

There are only THREE of the Ten Commandments that have corresponding laws in secular law.

Do you know what they are?

FWIW, under Arizona law, the plea "Not guilty by reason of insanity" is not permitted. The closest is "Guilty but insane" which, if proven, lessens punishment.

Gerald Laughner, the Tuscon Shooter of 2 years ago, was tried under FEDERAL law, however.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/23/13


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