ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Could Jesus Sin

Recently I was told that Christ had the ability to sin. I was then told that his whole life was a struggle with temptation and sin. What is your belief. Please give scripture.

Join Our Christian Chat and Take The Who Is Jesus Bible Quiz
 ---trey on 3/27/13
     Helpful Blog Vote (7)

Post a New Blog



Warwick, Morenz highlights where the trinity has its roots- in pagan Egypt. Which is why you call him a Bibliosceptic. Or maybe its because Morenz being a trinitarian made him a Bibliosceptic? There are plenty of trinitarian Bibliosceptics who cannot agree. Whichever the case, the fact remains the trinity is from pagan Egypt.

Its obvious to Christians that Morenz Biblioscepticism stems from the false pagan trinity dogma which he wrongly concluded was 'Biblical'. Amusingly, the later Morenz quote you provide thus does not negate the quote WTS uses in showing where trinitarian cults get their trinity dogma from- ie. pagan Egypt.

Perhaps you are too perfidious and dumb not to notice there is no contradiction in what Morenz is saying!
---David8318 on 4/6/13


'we can disagree without being disfellowshipped and shunned'- Warwick.

As long as Warwick believes the trinity dogma. Can anyone imagine the C & MA cult tolerating Warwick if he abandoned belief in the trinity? He'd be booted out.

Of course Christians can have disagreements- perhaps on the the colour of paint to use in a house, or the best car to purchase and so on.

But on such a vital issue as to who Jesus is... Chritians have absolutely no disagreements whatsoever. Christian Witnesses of Jehovah have no disagreements who Jesus is. Strangely enough, I completely agree with Warwick when he says:

'I am not saying Jesus the Son of man had a sin nature, but that He had free will, and therefore could sin.'
---David8318 on 4/6/13


---christan on 4/5/13
You did not answer my question:

QUESTION: If there is no such thing as free will, why then does Jesus not get his way with Jerusalem?

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate
---francis on 4/5/13


David since you have graced us with your presence let me show you 1 example of JW perfidious misquoting-devious and dumb.

JWs quote Morenz "trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians. ... three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology"

But Morenz (a Bibliosceptic) actually went on to say "In order to avoid any gross misunderstanding, we must at once emphasize that the substance of the Christian Trinity is of course Biblical: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The three are mentioned alongside one another in the New Testament, probably for liturgical reasons."
---Warwick on 4/5/13


Michael is correct. Philippians 2:8 says Jesus was obedient to death. If He had no free will then disobedience is not an option. This idea makes this verse meaningless.

If we do not choose to follow Jesus then we are but programmed robots with no alternative. This is not love. Would any of us wish to have a wife/husband whose love was not choice but a programmed response?
---Warwick on 4/5/13




David, you often make assumptions: you assume that those who blog here are Christian, and Trinitarian.

You also miss the point that we in the free Christian world do disagree because we can disagree without being disfellowshipped and shunned. Your cult indoctrinates its victims into the belief that the Watchtower is God's only organization on earth therefore the only way to whatever they call 'salvation.' Then if the slave should disagree on one, even small point they are disfellowshipped, consigned to what they now believe is 'outer darkness.'

Thank God we the Redeemed in Jesus Christ have the freedom to disagree, and the freedom to worship with those of other denominations. JW's cannot commit such a sin can they?
---Warwick on 4/5/13


"If the trinity was holy spirit inspired, it wouldn't produce such disunity over a basic understanding of who Jesus is." David8318

Your mocking of the God the Holy Spirit is already sealed by what Christ has declared, "...but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men... it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

As for your "disunity" comment, note what Scripture declares, "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel", that is, not every Jew who proclaimed they believe in God is of God. The same is said of those who claim they believe in the trinity.
---christan on 4/5/13


Mark, Jesus Christ is fully God (Spirit) and fully man (flesh). Anyone who does not understand this does not get the point. Hebrews ch. 1 speaks to His being God while ch.2 tells us of His also being human. Ch.10:5 shows the coming Messiah saying a body was made for Him. This was the human child, born of Mary, and the Holy Spirit, was it not? This is the child who became the man who was made like His brothers (other humans) "in every way" ch. 2:14. This is the man who "suffered when he was tempted" vs.18. If Jesus the man was not temptable then He could not suffer, therefore this Scripture is wrong.

There is no way He could sin as to His God nature (Spirit) but He could as to His flesh.
---Warwick on 4/5/13


Christan, Michael always gets directly to the point. He writes 'Why would Jesus say "not to do my own will" if He didn't have one?'

Matthew 26:39 Jesus prayed "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." This Scripture clearly shows Jesus had a will of His own, but willingly followed His Father's will doing what the Father planned for Him to do. This sets an amazing example for us. However if Jesus was unable to sin, and unable to do other than the Father's will, then He sets us no example at all. He does not have a sin nature (just as Adam was created) but unlike Adam He chose to follow God's will, not His own.
---Warwick on 4/5/13


"If there is no such thing as free will, why then does Jesus not get his way with Jerusalem?" francis

You are a confused soul who cannot discern between God's will and what He has purposed and will the man He created to do. If you think Matthew 23:37,38 advocates "free-will" (Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture), then the will and purpose of God cannot stand. But is that even true? Not a jolt!

God declared: "Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

You have a "free-will"? Not unless God is lying but He calls you are the liar.
---christan on 4/5/13




"Free-will" is a fallacy and lie from the devil.
---christan on 4/4/13
If there is no such thing as free will, why then does Jesus not get his way with Jerusalem?

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Matthew 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate
---francis on 4/5/13


Why would Jesus say "not to do my own will" if He didn't have one?
Or is the word "free" where there is a difference of thought?
---micha9344 on 4/5/13


Interesting quarrel between trinitarians, indicative of the disunity of belief among trinitarian groups. If the trinity was holy spirit inspired, it wouldn't produce such disunity over a basic understanding of who Jesus is.

The trinity conundrum is if Jesus is God, how could he sin or be tempted- Js.1:13-15. OTOH, Jesus had to show complete obedience to God, which entailed being tempted (outwardly), which infamously he was by Satan- Mt.4:3-10.

'The first Adam' was without sin yet he committed a sin resulting in death- Ro.5:12. 'The last Adam' was also without sin yet needed to remain sinless (obedient) to death- Ro.5:19, 1Cor.15:45.

Hebrews 4:15 '...one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.'
---David8318 on 4/5/13


"I am not saying Jesus the Son of man had a sin nature, but that He had free will, and therefore could sin." Warwick

Firstly, about Christ's divinity - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." ONLY the Man Christ was begotten of the Father, no one else.

"Free-will" is a fallacy and lie from the devil. Jesus declared, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day."
---christan on 4/4/13


Warwick, Jesus Christ was Holy. The reason He was Holy was because He is God. You say,
"Mark, I am not saying Jesus the Son of man had a sin nature, but that He had free will, and therefore could sin."
With your statement you suggest that a Holy God could sin. Temptation is not sin. (James 1:13-15)
"Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted by God, for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin"
The human desires gives birth to sin. Jesus had no unholy desires.
---Mark_V. on 4/5/13


Mark, I am not saying Jesus the Son of man had a sin nature, but that He had free will, and therefore could sin.

Hebrews 2:18 says "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin."

These Scriptures say that He was tempted to sin but did not do so. If He was not capable of sinning then "but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." is meaningless, and even deceitful.
---Warwick on 4/4/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Warwick, to say Jesus was tempted from within is to say He also had a sin nature. But you are wrong, tempation to Him came from without.
But when humans are tempted from within, their sin nature causes them to sin from within, they do not need an outside temptaion to cause them to sin, they are sinful from birth. That He suffered is true, He was in a human form, and suffered what all human beings suffer from. When they hit Him with a whip it hurt Him, when He was thrown to the ground and when nailed to the cross He suffered pain. But He never suffered from sin.
---Mark_V. on 4/4/13


Love.wins//Yes! Even the Hitlers of this world. I've said all I'm going to say on this topic. Peace and blessings to you.

---

If you were to read the New Testament especially the book of Revelation, you would see that the evil and unbelievers of this world will end up in the lake of fire.

Universalism is considered to be non-biblical but that is what is what is taught in churches today that do not preach the Gospel.

You God is not a holy god but simply a god of love not sovereign to do with His creation as He wishes.
---e.lee7537 on 4/4/13


The SDA's believe that Jesus gave up his holiness when he descended from glory.
---trey on 4/3/13
Do us a favour, show where you got that information from.

Maybe you meant something else instead of holiness.

It is in reference to this verse: John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

or is it this Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels

Remember holiness as it refers to God also means seperated from His creation ( not created)

It could also mean that Jesus did not use his Divine ability for his own pleasure

So I would like to se the context inw hcih it may have been used
---francis on 4/4/13


Trey, I do sometimes use the KJV, always aware that much of its language is archaic, the meanings of words having changed greatly over the centuries. And secondly that Bible translators today have many more manuscripts than the KJV translators had.

The point is that He was tempted and this temptation caused Him suffering. Look at this in the light of Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. How are we tempted? From within, and without, and He was tempted likewise as Hebrews shows. If He was not temptable then it is no credit to Him that He did not sin, is it?
---Warwick on 4/4/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


Yes! Even the Hitlers of this world. I've said all I'm going to say on this topic. Peace and blessings to you.
---Love.wins on 4/3/13


"Yes, but only those that have come to believe will be the ones that will be saved eternally. (John 3:18-19)" e.lee7537

And it doesn't just stop there. Jesus explicitly revealed who are those who will go to Him and the description is very specific. Not just anyone but...

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:37,44,65

"...AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED." Acts 13:48
---christan on 4/3/13


Warwick, first let us use a correct translation: (KJV)
Heb2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Christ suffered the testing put forth by Satan, not that they were a temptation, but that they were disagreeable and disdainful to his holy and righteous nature.

Honestly, what could Satan offer the Christ? Jesus has all honor, power, glory, knowledge, truly untold riches and is omnipresent.

The SDA's believe that Jesus gave up his holiness when he descended from glory. Truly the belief that Christ could be tempted to sin shows the lack of intament knowledge as to the identity of Jesus Christ.
---trey on 4/3/13


Love.wins //And I am sure you will be sorely troubled when you eventually learn that Paul really meant it when he wrote that it is God's will that all be saved...

Yes, but only those that have come to believe will be the ones that will be saved eternally. (John 3:18-19)

If you do not believe that, then you are a proponent of universalism - all mankind will be saved, including the Hitlers of the world and all infidels.

A rule of interpretation is that scripture MUST BE interpreted by other Scripture.

A terrible judgment awaits that who have not accepted Christ as Lord. 1 Peter 4:17
---e.lee7537 on 4/3/13


Send a Free St Patrick's Day Ecard


Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] JHWH, and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou [art] a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Isa 45:21 ... and [there is] no God else beside me, a just God and a Saviour, [there is] none beside me.
Hos 13:4 Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.
---micha9344 on 4/3/13


And I am sure you will be sorely troubled when you eventually learn that Paul really meant it when he wrote that it is God's will that all be saved, and that God is the Saviour of all mankind, in 1 Timothy 2:4 and 4:10. May God be with you!
---Love.wins on 4/3/13


"You said that no one could come to him unless they were drawn." Love.wins

You have a serious problem with the English language. Once again, it was Christ who declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." This verse is from the Holy Bible and I'm just quoting what it says, and you're saying otherwise.

"So all are drawn and will be saved in the end."

"ALL"? Jesus also declared, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." Which means, the "all" will only be those whom the Father has given to His Son.
---christan on 4/2/13


Warwick, you gave two passages in Hebrews yet I understand what Trey is saying, he is saying that the Lord Jesus Christ could not be tempted from within. Temptation came to Him from without. The difference between Him and human beings is that human beings are sinful from within. Jesus was not sinful, He was Holy. He was not under the curse God put on mankind because He is God, how could He curse Himself?
By His partaking of a human nature, Christ demonstrated His mercy to mankind and His faithfulness to God by satisfying God's requirement for sin and thus obtaining for His people full forgiveness ( 1 John 2:2: 4:10).
---Mark_V. on 4/3/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


I was using irony. I am sure Jesus meant what he said when he stated that when He was lifted up, he would draw all men to himself. You said that no one could come to him unless they were drawn. So all are drawn and will be saved in the end. That's the good news of the Gospel, praise God.
---Love.wins on 4/2/13


---trey on 4/1/13
English huh? tempted by sin: meaning he thought about sinning, or tempted by sin: meaning he was encouraged to
sin

Emglish huh, you just have to keep clarifying, luckily I already did:

Christ did have human nature, and divine nature,

Human nature: image of God, obedient and subject to God

Divine Nature: Pure and Holy never knowing nor contemplating sin
---francis on 3/30/13

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
---francis on 4/2/13


James, Hebrews 2:14 ESV reads "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,"

By "the same things" the writer is saying He was the same as us, a flesh and blood man, with all that entails, part of humanity. Of course as we know, as to His Spirit He was God who is not flesh, but Spirit.

This website has made me aware that communication with people of different countries is fraught with difficulty as some words have very different meanings in different countries.
---Warwick on 4/2/13


Trey, in light of your comments please explain what Hebrews 2:18 means "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

Also Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin."
---Warwick on 4/2/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


"Okay, then Jesus was mistaken when he said he would draw all men to himself. Bummer." Love.wins

Ah... finally, the truth is out from you. From your very own heart you call Jesus a liar for saying "he would draw all men to himself...". Actually, that's not what He said. Even in your attempt to blaspheme the word of God, you can't get the facts right. Here, this is what Christ said,

"No man can come to me, EXCEPT THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day."

You see, the drawing of the sinner starts from God's sovereign election, of which if you're not elected, you're never going to be drawn by the Father to the Son.
---christan on 4/2/13


Dear Moderator: I am experiencing a problem with your site. When I select 'preview' then return to the text box to make a change, on many occasions my name and address are deleted. Is this a problem you are working on?
---Warwick on 4/2/13


\\The belief that our impeccable, immutable Lord and Saviour was even tempted by sin is blasphemy!\\
---trey

Well, I guess you'll have to take that up with God. He said it first.


\\Here is one for you:
1Pet1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.\\
---trey

OUR SPIRIT is born again, incorruptible, by the washing of regeneration (Titus 3:5), by the washing of water with the word (Eph 5:26) a New Creation (2Cor 5:17)

You can't distinguish between the spirit and the flesh ??

Good grief !!
---James_L on 4/2/13


James L, you then say,
"But humans also have a spirit, which Christ did not share."

But you are wrong James. The Scriptures not only bear testimony to the physical characteristics of the human body of the incarnate Christ, but also speaks specifically of the fact that He possessed a human rational soul and spirit.
In Matthew 26:38) Jesus said to His disciples,
"My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death"
A similar statement is given in (John 13:21) where it is recorded:
"When Jesus had thus said, He was troubled in the spirit" He had a complete human nature including body, soul and spirit.
---Mark_V. on 4/2/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


\\...I was not endeavouring to be ambiguous...\\
---Warwick on 4/1/13

I believe you had pure intentions. But, the word translated "humanity" in Heb 2:14 is "same"

We have flesh and blood, He shared the same.

But humans also have a spirit, which Christ did not share.
I won't beat it to death, I just wanted you to know that I do not mean to accuse your intentions, just to point out that not everyone uses these phrases the same.
Peace.


Francis,
you made a good point about Christ not knowing certain things.

And when it comes to understanding what is meant, we should not resort quoting to mystically ambiguous doctrines.
---James_L on 4/1/13


The belief that our impeccable, immutable Lord and Saviour was even tempted by sin is blasphemy!

Francis quoted: Rom 8:3 and 4 having no understanding of the meaning of the word "likeness" which means "appearance of".

Rom 1:3 "seed" simply means his lineage.

Here is one for you:
1Pet1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

INCORRUPTIBLE

How could one that is "corruptible" bare one that is incorruptible?

Luke 1:35 How could the Holy Ghost create one that is corruptible when the Holy Ghost is incorruptible?

Christ is that "holy thing"!
---trey on 4/1/13


---Mark_V. on 4/1/13
Human nature, and sin nature are not the same thing. Adam an Eve had human nature before the fall, but not sin nature

do not ignore what the bible says about jesus nature
Romans 8:3, 4:.. God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH,...

Romans 1:3 Jesus Christ our Lord, was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren
---francis on 4/1/13


James surely it is obvious I was not endeavouring to be ambiguous as I used "humanity" as it is used in Scripture e.g. Hebrews 2:14 which chapter goes on to say that Jesus suffered when He was tempted, just as we. However He did not give in to temptation. If, as some say, He could not sin then He would not be temptable therefore would not suffer because of temptation. But Hebrews does say He was "made like his brothers in every way" so that He could face temptation from within and without, and know the feeling, but not sin.
---Warwick on 4/1/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


James L, you say that I, "refer to Jesus' "human nature" in a mystical way that is "just like" every other human, but is like no other human because He doesn't have a "sin nature" whatever that's supposed to be."
If you had read read all of Scripture, you would know Jesus Christ did have a human nature as all humans. You would also have known He was not under condemnation or under the sin of Adam. He was born Holy and remainded without sin to His death. You would have known that in His divine nature He had all the attributes of God. Since we are told He is the Creator of all things. Instead you prefer to take the route cultist take to discredit the Lord of His Divine nature.
---Mark_V. on 4/1/13


Okay, then Jesus was mistaken when he said he would draw all men to himself. Bummer.
---Love.wins on 3/31/13


Such as Jesus didn't know certain things "in His humanity" or In His human nature"
---James_L on 3/31/13
Good question

This raises a very interesting point, look at these two verses:

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

Does it appear that the father ( God) knows some things that Jesus does not immediately know, which the Father has to Reveal to Jesus?
---francis on 3/31/13


Warwick,
I believe you weren't trying to be ambiguous, but were simply stating as you saw fit from your undertstanding of the words you used.

Some refer to Jesus "In His humanity" and "In His Divinity" as if He is both divine and human without any distinction between spirit and body.

Such as Jesus didn't know certain things "in His humanity" or In His uman nature"

Or Jesus knew "In His Divinity" of "In His Divine Nature" that the woman had touched Him on His robe

a mysterious hypostatic union. But this confusing doctrine was only necessary because of the false doctrines of Traducianism and Original Sin that developed in an effort to fight against Gnosticism
---James_L on 3/31/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


"'and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself' John 12:32. So it would appear that no one will be excluded, praise God." Love.wins

Really? Multitudes are in Hades waiting to be cast into the Lake of Fire when Jesus returns to judge the world. By your understanding, Jesus must have failed in His mission to "draw all men to Himself". How's He going to explain to those going to hell?

That's how foolish and not to mention wicked the theology of "free-will" is in the sight of God. That is, God wants to save but He can't, because the "free-will" is more powerful than His Almighty will to save a man. Now, do you see how erroneous your gospel is?
---christan on 3/30/13


Are you serious, JamesL? You accuse me: "You are just too ignorant to describe with words." Ignorant of what? When I showed you what Christ declared which contradicted your statement of: "Jesus didn't really say that the Father DRAWS us." on 3/29/13

Really? How's exposing your LIE to the Word of God being ignorant? It was Christ who declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father WHICH HATH SENT ME DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day." in John 6:44 - those aren't my words but that of Jesus Christ!

It's bad enough you claim you're a Christian and yet in the face of the Word, you call Christ a liar.
---christan on 3/31/13


Romans 8:3, 4: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

I think my three post have answered the question clearly

Christ did have human nature, and divine nature, he had sinful flesh ( not sin nature), but he never sinned. He relied on the word of God, the spirit of God, and on his father completely

Human nature: image of God, obedient and subject to God

Sin nature: Tendency to disobey God

Divine Nature: Pure and Holy never knowing nor contemplating sin
---francis on 3/30/13


Bro. Scott1, I didn't say Adam had a sin nature. The curse came to all mankind through Adam's fall.
Second, Jesus was doing the Fathers will, for He was
"Foreknown as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" He had to do the Fathers will because He is God. God cannot go against His own nature, He is Holy, and if He did go against Himself He would stop been Holy, and the word of God would be wrong, and all the prophets would have lied. We are told that every human being makes choices yet,
"A man's heart deviseth his way: But the Lord directeth his steps" (Prov. 16:9). Jesus had a choice in His human nature, but God directed His steps. Remember, it is God who is in control.
---Mark_V. on 3/30/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


JamesL, "Since the children have flesh and blood,he too shared in their humanity" Hebrews 2:14. As per the Holman Bible Dictionary- 'humanity'- Collective designation for all creatures who are made in the image of God..." It was not my intention to be ambiguous, but to point out that being flesh and blood, born of Mary He was a human with all that entails. He was also God.

Having travelled extensively I have come to understand that in different English speaking countries words have different meanings. That is sometimes the problem here.
---Warwick on 3/30/13


-James_L Good questions!!

Romans 1:3 Jesus Christ our Lord, was made of the seed of David according to the flesh,

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

He did not take on sinless nature, but rather the same nature as Abraham's children. They had sin-weakened bodies and minds. So did He. This does not involve guilt.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted
---francis on 3/30/13


Warwick,
"In His Humanity" is ambiguous because it can mean anything. For example:

Mark V refers to Jesus' "human nature" in a mystical way that is "just like" every other human, but is like no other human because He doesn't have a "sin nature" whatever that's supposed to be.

francis refers to 3 supposed "natures" -
human nature
divine nature
sin nature

Is sin some sort of creature, that we should call it a "nature" in the same breath as human and divine?

it's ambiguous if you don't explain what you mean

What good is it if 100 people agree with what you say, but only 1 understands what you mean?
---James_L on 3/29/13


'and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself' John 12:32. So it would appear that no one will be excluded, praise God.
---Love.wins on 3/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Christan,

You are just too ignorant to describe with words
---James_L on 3/29/13


It is true that unless the Holy Spirit draw a man, they cannot come to God. But the testimony of a believer does help influence the free will of an individual as well as convincing which was found throughout the book of Acts by Paul. So it isnt' a layed back do nothing to win them Christianity we are to have, it' a proactive one of evangelization.
---Peter_Ruckdeschel on 3/29/13


JamesL, I cannot see how "in His humanity" is "ambiguous" because you know what humanity is, as well as I do. We are humans, suffering from all the weakness of humanity living under the curse. He was made like us in every way (Hebrews 2:17)sharing in our humanness therefore able to sin. The wonderful thing is that He did not sin, setting an amazing example for us.

Yes I think I can discern between a flesh and blood man and a spirit.

But Jesus is more than a man, being also 100% God, who is not man but Spirit. This does not mean He is 200% of anything.
---Warwick on 3/29/13


"Jesus didn't really say that the Father DRAWS us." JamesL

"No man can come to me, except the Father WHICH HATH SENT ME DRAW HIM: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 - it's in black and white taken from the KJV and you still say what you say? Your denial of this verse speaks of your "support for free-will".

As for Acts 16:19, 21:30 - those verses are not pertinent to John 6:44 as Silas and Paul were being persecuted for their faith in Christ by their fellow Jews. The "dragged" effect is speaking of a force action by their persecutors. Even in that context you and your cohort have it wrong. Goodness!
---christan on 3/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


Before Adam sinned, he did not have a sin nature at all.

Human Nature
Sin Nature
Divine Nature

Jesus had both human and divine nature he did not sin

Adam had both Human and divine nature he did sin

We have all three
Sin Nature
Human Nature
Divine nature

We can choose which one we want to nurture and grow
---francis+ on 3/29/13


Acts 20:30
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Has anyone tried to DRAG YOU AWAY against your will, and you had no will to say NO NO NO! You just had to be DRAGGED?

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn/ DRAGGED away of his own lust, and enticed.
Oh and here you are being DRAGGED away by YOUR OWN LUSTS and enticed, not Gods lusts and enticed.

John 12:32 And I, IF I be lifted up from the earth 3, will draw, AKA DRAG, all men unto me.

Here says ALL MEN.


the part bolded and underlined Calvinists are AFRAID OF, that's why they don't lift up Christ from the earth.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/13


\\...except the Father which hath sent me draw him...Doesn't it mean it's 100% the work of God that draws a sinner to Jesus?\\
---Christan

Jesus didn't really say that the Father DRAWS us. It's the same word as:

Acts 16:19 when Paul and Silas were DRAGGED into the marketplace before the authorities

Acts 21:30 when Paul was DRAGGED out of the temple

I don't think Paul and Silas were "invited" to "choose" to come out to be beaten


\\you have the "free-will" to go to Jesus?\\
---Christan

Again, I do not espouse any sort of "free will"

How many times do I have to say that I agree?


Good Grief !!
---James_L on 3/29/13


//He did not have a sin nature as all humans do through Adam.//

MarkV good argument
yet Adam did not have a sin nature either, being made in the image of God.
Also, Satan being smart knew how to tempt Jesus, tempted with Kingship. Jesus being the King of Kings could have been king much easier following satan's path but instead choose God's path. If you look at the prayer in John this becomes clear that Jesus choose to follow the Father's will implying he could have choosen his will and not done gone to the cross.
---Scott1 on 3/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


"We're talking about essence. Is a mule 100% horse and 100% donkey?" JamesL

Talking about "essence" then, when Scripture says you're "dead in sins and trespasses", are you 100% dead or 50% dead? Is there even such a thing as "half-dead"?

In "essence", when Christ said "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Doesn't it mean it's 100% the work of God that draws a sinner to Jesus? Or is it in "your essence", you have the "free-will" to go to Jesus?

In "essence", practice what you preach.
---christan on 3/28/13


\\JamesL, you ask "What on earth do you mean "In His Humanity" ??" Then write that He "was born into the flesh of a human (John 1:14)." It seems you simply contradict yourself, don't you?\\
---Warwick

Huh ??

I was asking what do YOU mean by "In His Humanity". I don't use this ambiguous phrase

\\...Jesus being fully God (Spirit, not flesh) and fully man (flesh)\\
---Warwick

That is all I was asking. What did YOU mean. Now you have clarified, and I agree 100%.

Now I have to ask - If you are so easily able to distinguish between God (Spirit) and man (flesh) then why use ambiguous phrases at all?
---James_L on 3/28/13


to Trey's original question...
ABSOLUTELY NOT !!

Jesus, being made like us in every respect, simply means that He clothed Himself in flesh, as we are. The same kind of flesh, too. Descended from Adam, like us.

Divine body? No. A body that felt the effects of sin - such as exhaustion, illness, temptation toward self exaltation, and ultimately death

Flesh doesn't make anyone a sinner, even us.

WE turn our own way and become sinners (Rom 1:18-25, 7:9) because we are naive enough to follow the desires of our flesh

Jesus is God With Us. It was not possible for God to fail, no matter how strong the flesh is. The only one ever able to defeat the flesh in the fullest sense, to stand against temptation without sin.
---James_L on 3/28/13


Jesus was the Devil's ONLY HOPE. Jesus could sin, but didn't. Jesus was tempted in every way [as we are] but did not sin. Everything he did, he chose to please the Father. He exceeded the best of human effort (Job). The total sum of all creation is no match for the Father. Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be grasped unlike Satan who wished to be equal with the Most High. Satan's only hope is gone, now all he has to do is to take as many of us with him to a place he does not want to go.
---Bike on 3/29/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


Warwick, you gave two passages in Hebrews that tell us that Jesus was tempted or suffered temptation like we have and by those two verses you suggest Jesus could sin. I believe you are wrong on that one and here is why. Whatever temptation came to Jesus came from without Him never from within. Temptation always comes from without us, and we are capable of sinning from within because we have a sin nature.
Yet, it is agreed by all that Jesus never sinned, and that He did not have a sin nature as all humans do through Adam.
The idea that temptability implies susceptibility is unsound.
---Mark_V. on 3/29/13


"One thing of the Father is His inability to sin, incapability to do evil." willie_c

But you didn't mention, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" Amos 3:6

You see, God is not one dimensional. He condescended to reveal to us "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." He's not santa claus!
---christan on 3/28/13


\\I am part Irish, part English, part German, and 100% American. Add that up.\\
---micha9344 on 3/28/13

That doesn't even come close to comparing because Irish, English and German all denote descent, or one could possibly argue "essence". And you correctly denoted them with "part"

You could not be 100% German, 100% Irish and 100% English in the sense of ethinicity and descent. You could be 100% of each of those if you were simply talking about citizenship.

"American" is not an ethnicity but a location of citizenship, and usually residency

We're talking about essence.

Is a mule 100% horse and 100% donkey?
---James_L on 3/28/13


Recently I was told that Christ had the ability to sin. I was then told that his whole life was a struggle with temptation and sin. What is your belief. Please give scripture.
---trey on 3/27/13

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin

So yes he was tempted to sin in the same ways we are, yet he did not sin

He could have
but he did not
---francis on 3/28/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


JamesL, you ask "What on earth do you mean "In His Humanity" ??" Then write that He "was born into the flesh of a human (John 1:14)." It seems you simply contradict yourself, don't you? Conversely there is absolutely no contradiction in Jesus being fully God (Spirit, not flesh) and fully man (flesh). He is the Son of God (Spirit), and the Son of Man (flesh).
"Hebrews 10:5 "Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, .....a body have you prepared for me," Was that body not Born of Mary therefore human? Or do you believe Jesus was not also human?
---Warwick on 3/28/13


Christan, if Jesus the man could not sin what does Hebrews 4:15 mean "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Does this not tell us Jesus the man could sin, but didn't, setting an amazing example for us?

Hebrews 2:14-18 tells us Jesus shares in our humanity, being "made like us in every way." 18 "For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted." If He was incapable of sinning what credit to Him is it that He resisted temptation? None.

If you are correct what do these verses mean?
---Warwick on 3/28/13


"For HE hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of GOD in Him." II CORINTHIANS 5:21. YAHUSHUA (JESUS) was, and is, the Son of GOD. He is Divine. His very Nature is Pure and Sinless and is, therefore, unable to sin. He was a Divine Being Who took on a Flesh-and-Blood Body. He maintained His Divine attributes of Purity and Holiness as He walked the Earth.
---Gordon on 3/28/13


What is sin if not the running contrary to God's will and edicts?

Luke 22:40_42 "And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."
---Nana on 3/28/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Refinancing


I am part Irish, part English, part German, and 100% American. Add that up.
---micha9344 on 3/28/13


It says, "God cannot be tempted by evil," in James 1:13. So, if Jesus is God the Son, this would go for Him, that He "cannot be tempted by evil".

And Jesus does say, "All things that the Father has are Mine." (in John 16:15) One thing of the Father is His inability to sin, incapability to do evil. So, this is one of Jesus Christ's things, also, if "all things that the Father has are" Jesus Christ's also.

And this is good for us, because we have Jesus being "formed in you," as Paul says in Galatians 4:19. So, as we grow in Jesus, more and more we also are immune to sin-sick stuff. This includes how we become more emotionally in His "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:29).
---willie_c: on 3/28/13


It's pretty simple: If someone is absolutely unable to sin, then he would also be unable to be tempted to sin.
---Love.wins on 3/28/13


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.