ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Communion Literal Body

Is the Communion Bread and Juice of the Vine the literal Body and Blood of the Saviour, or is it meant as a Symbolic rememberance?

Join Our Free Singles and Take The False Traditions Bible Quiz
 ---Gordon on 4/7/13
     Helpful Blog Vote (6)

Post a New Blog



francis, honouring your father and mother is the least that's expected from you to your parents. And yet many fail in this duty. So, when you honour your father and mother as instructed by God, do you expect to be rewarded by God? Sounds like you do.

And just because you do "...not kill, not commit adultery, not steal, not bear false witness against thy neighbour, not covet thy neighbour's house...", you're expecting God to reward you with eternal life? Sounds like you do.

You speak of God's love but I ask you: should you fail in any of God's commands, what's going to happen to you? Loose your salvation? A simple YES or NO will do.
---christan on 4/17/13


Nikki, you can refuse to see the Truth concerning the Commandments. That is your right. Most Catholics know the difference they just refuse to go by the Bible and go by the Tradition of the Church. Which opens many doors to more traditions of the RCC. The sacred images of Mary the saints, and Jesus still on the Cross. The worshipping of idols, Mary another Savior, Jesus turning to a piece of bread, and so on and on. One tradition covering another. It's time to get back to the Truth Nikki, that is the only Person (Jesus Christ) that can save you, Mary nor the saints cannot save you or answer your prayers. The real persons are dead. The statues of them cannot move, speak, see, hear or answer prayer.
---Mark_V. on 4/17/13


---christan on 4/16/13
Silly child do you not honour you father and mother? do you consider yourself then a works monger?

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Silly child, can you not see that when you keep the commandments of God is it LOVE and not works?

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---francis on 4/17/13


OTOH, everything the Orthodox and Catholic Churches teach is available for all to read. There's nothing secret.---Cluny on 4/16/13

HOW TRUE! And yet, many on this website claims things that isn't true.
They refuse to back up their claims by our written books, because they know they are not telling the truth.


MarkV,
Both first 2 commandments of yours are the same even in your statement. God is God and only one God.
No person, object or imagination shall be above or held in place of God.
---Nikki on 4/17/13


"The sabbath is and will always be a DAY, the 7th DAY." francis

And you wonder why you're considered a works monger. Tell us then, does everything stop on your day of sabbath? Meaning, no work, not even going to the grocery store or tend to the garden?

Why I ask? Because that's what the Jews were precisely told by God that on the sabbath day, no one is to lift a finger. Have you been doing all these? Funny, I see you do postings on CN even on the weekend. Isn't that a sabbath day for you or do you not know it's a NO, NO to turn on your computer?
---christan on 4/16/13




---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13
I will check to see, if there was a Jew alive when God created the moon and stars,

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

No not a Jew is sight. No man in sight at all when God created the moon sun and stars

This is not a Jewish thing it is a God thing. Days, weeks, month, and years are not Jewish

Lets see what happens if we substitute JEW in place of MAN

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for JEW,
1 Cor 11:9 the woman for the JEW.

No sabbath, no women, no new moon, for gentiles in e.lee7537world,
---francis on 4/16/13


Wrong again, e.lee, as in everything you say on this subject.

One thing all variety of Gnostics (including Jewish gnosticism, today surviving as Kaballah) had in common was a claim to special knowledge available only to special initiates.

In this regard, the Albigensians were gnostic, as they had two levels of membership. Only the Perfecti knew everything.

OTOH, everything the Orthodox and Catholic Churches teach is available for all to read. There's nothing secret. Just things that some marginal members and others (such as yourself) may not know.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/16/13


The word "gnosticism" comes from the Greek word "gnosis" which means "knowledge." There were many groups that were Gnostic and it isn't possible to easily describe the nuances of each variant of Gnostic doctrines. However, generally speaking, Gnosticism taught that salvation is achieved through special knowledge (gnosis). This knowledge usually dealt with the individual's relationship to the transcendent Being. (Christian and Apologetics Ministries)

Yes, I can see that despite the belief in matter as being evil, some churches were influenced in their theology by the Gnostic movement "salvation is achieved through special knowledge"= eating Jesus actual flesh and drinking His actual blood.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


e.lee accused Nikki and I of believing in Gnostic rituals because we believe that we truly receive the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist.

What's ironic about this is that the semi-Christian Gnostics REFUSED to observe the Eucharist or any other of the sacraments because they believed that all matter was evil.

Therefore, they rejected the Incarnation as well.

Doesn't it bother you to expound upon historical matters that you clearly know nothing about, e.lee?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/16/13


Mark 2:27-28 And he said to them, The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath.

The commentaries tell us that the issue in Mark 2:27 was on how the Sabbath was to be observed by those under the Old Covenant laws.

Yes, Francis and the sect of Adventism that observes the New Moon celebration are really trying to be Jewish.

Isa 1:14 I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them!
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13




---christan on 4/15/13
being the " lord of the Sabbath" did NOT make Jesus the sabbath itself.

The sabbath is and will always be a DAY, the 7th DAY

Zechariah 4:14 Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Does that make Jesus the whole earth?
No it means he is the creator of the whole earth

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Means that Jesus is the one who made the sabbath, and all the rules that govern the sabbath
---francis on 4/16/13


"No text ever says that Jesus is the Sabbath..." francis

"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." Matthew 12:8, "Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 2:28, "And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Luke 6:5

Seriously, what is your SDA teaching you that the Jews till today are still doing? It must be so sad for you to be still resting on a day when Christians have already found their final rest in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ, who's their Lord of the sabbath as declared by Himself.

That's why only Christians have peace with God and that's because they're in Christ.
---christan on 4/15/13


I have not observed any Adventists that observes the New Moon celebrations.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13
LOL

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The New moon is how we know we are in a new month

The relationship between earth and moon gives us a month

The relationship between earth and sun gives us a year

The relationship between earth and earth gives us a day

THE WORD OF GOD, THE UNCHANGING WORD OF GOD is what gives the whole world a 7 day week and thus a 7th day sabbath

Ask NASA how they know when one week has gone by, and the answer is THE BIBLE
---francis on 4/16/13


Nikki, the first two commandments are not the same.
In the first God discribes Himself on what He did bringing the people of Egypt.
"You shall have no other gods before Me" He is speaking of gods that people worship outside of Himself.
In the Second He is saying, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image of Himself or any others"
In other words, when Aaron made the calf, the calf represent God, not another god. He prohibited images because they cannot convey who God is. No image of Jesus, no matter how magnificent it is, can capture the nature of the Lord. An no matter the well meaning attempts only incur His displeasure. God is never a piece of bread or a calf.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/13


Francis //We all observe the new moon, it is the start of the biblical Month, more than that, the new month will be the time when the tree of life gives her fruit, when we shall all gather in the NJ to eat from it.
---
I have not observed any Adventists that observes the New Moon celebrations. Apparently it is observed only by your unique sect within Adventism.

I have read in Proclamation magazine that there are sects within Adventism that are starting to call their churches synagogues and are observing laws that are uniquely Jewish such as the Biblical Festivals.

Such things are typical of the chaos of the cults.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13
We all observe the new moon, it is the start of the biblical Month, more than that, the new month will be the time when the tree of life gives her fruit, when we shall all gather in the NJ to eat from it

---christan on 4/15/13
The bible says Christ is our passover, bread, veil, high priest, His blood is the wine, light:Just about everything in the earthly Sanctuary

No text ever says that Jesus is the Sabbath, and what's more the bible is Isaiah 66 says in heaven we will have BOTH Jesus and Sabbath
---francis on 4/15/13


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


"How about 'And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you, do this in remembrance of me (Lk 22:19)" James

And this verse implies the bread and wine TURNING into His body and blood? Really? Wasn't this the time Christ was having His last supper with His disciples before dying at Calvary? Wasn't He reminding His disciples including the Christians today of what He was sent to this world for? How do you understand this to be implying "transubstantiation"?

You may read English BUT understanding it is definitely a problem for you.
---christan on 4/15/13


Christan: 'Nikki, please show us in the Scriptures where we are told that the bread and wine actually turns into the physical body and blood of Jesus Christ? '

How about 'And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you, do this in remembrance of me (Lk 22:19)

Is that enough for you - that is the bread, the wine is in 22:20

You can read English?
---James on 4/15/13


OK HERE GOES:

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Leviticus 12:3 And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Neither the Sabbath nor circumcision is required of the Church. You cannot have one without the other.

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the and shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Do you also do the New Moon celebrations? You cannot do one without the other.

You are NOT wise since you refuse instruction.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


francis, while you were so busy showing e.lee verses with regards to the sabbath day, you forgot one important revelation that the sabbath mentioned was only pointing to a person who's called the "Lord of the Sabbath - the Lord Jesus Christ."

The rest on the sabbath as commanded by God in the OT has now been revealed in the NT as the rest in the Lord Jesus Christ and not a particular day but a person, God the Son

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:28,29
---christan on 4/15/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Settlements


Christan, No Nuns, a Priest is needed to invoke the Holy Spirit. Luke 22:14-20 New Covenant
The multiple of loaves is the only miracle written in all 4 Gospels. Why? Because Jesus is trying to tell you He has power over bread. Wedding at Cana. He proves He has power over water to wine. HE CAN DO ANYTHING!!! He became a man.
According to your limited belief, Jesus is limited.
He can be a man, but no, no, no, no He can't be bread and His blood can't be wine. READ JOHN 6.

God can send Manna to the Israel for 40 years from heaven.
But, no, He can't be bread???? You are having problems with yourself.
You REFUSE TO BELIEVE JESUS IS ALL POWERFUL.
Catholics take Jesus at His Words. We don't question, we FOLLOW HIM!!!
---Nikki on 4/15/13


Sabbath commandment was NEVER about worship but about REST
--e.lee7537 -Cluny on 4/14/13

Proverbs 9:9 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser:

OK HERE GOES:

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,
Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the and shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons
Luke 4:16 as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God
Isaiah 66:23 from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 4/15/13


Nikki, please show us in the Scriptures where we are told that the bread and wine actually turns into the physical body and blood of Jesus Christ? Which is what your temple worship professes in their transubstantiation theory.

You have the audacity to say, "Catholics follow Jesus as HE wants us to follow Him. We don't follow our own designs and wishes." So where did Christ say, get some nuns and make wafers which will turn into my body during your Eucharistic sacrifice and the wine will turn into my blood?

Unless you show prove that Christ instructed such sorcery, you're drowning in the lies of the Vatican, to which Christ spoke, "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
---christan on 4/15/13


Cluny //Actually, the Sabbath commandment was NEVER about worship but about REST. It was an enforced work stoppage that extended even to one's slaves and farm animals.
----
But to the Adventists and other Sabbaterians, it has become simply the time of communal worship.

//The early Christians would meet in the wee hours of Sunday for the Eucharist, then go on about their ordinary business.

That is also true until the church became a formalized institution and made interpretations on the Eucharist. And I suppose that is when the church no longer came to observe the OT Sabbath - strictly a Jewish observance.
---e.lee7537 on 4/14/13


Shop For Church Audio Video


Francis, I never denied that the RCC changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday.

Because JESUS ROSE on the 1st day of the week, we celebrate every Sunday as a day of rest in worshiping Jesus.

Besides, Jesus should be 1st in your week, day and thought.
---Nikki on 4/14/13


Actually, the Sabbath commandment was NEVER about worship but about REST. It was an enforced work stoppage that extended even to one's slaves and farm animals.

The early Christians would meet in the wee hours of Sunday for the Eucharist, then go on about their ordinary business.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/13


As I learned from Mass today on EWTN, it is amazing that the only miracle in all 4 Gospels is the multiplication of the bread. Later in the Gospel of John, Jesus walks on water.
Jesus proves He has power of bread, water and His own body.

You all believe God became Man. But, you find it too hard to believe Jesus when He tells you He will give us His body as true bread and blood as true wine. Why? Is God limited in your eyes?

For those who laugh at us Catholics and Orthodox in our belief in Jesus Words in the Eucharist, remember Muslims are laughing as us for thinking God became Man.

One man's beliefs is another man's source of jokes.
---Nikki on 4/13/13


//"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day.

And if you read further you would see that the claim to change the OT Sabbath to Sunday was done by the Apostles during the Apostolic Age when according to Roman Catholicism, everyone was Roman Catholic.

Sorry Francis, but you have been caught in another partial truth, however, Adventists are not known to have much love for the truth and all the truth.
---e.lee7537 on 4/13/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Internet Services


he only died onetime, so thinking it literal doesn't make sense.---womandisciple on 4/13/13

Only if you think Jesus is affected by time.
Remember there is no time with God. He made time. Time is a creation.

Jesus is made present again.
He only died once.
One one is saying He died more than once except for Protestants.
---Nikki on 4/13/13


---Nikki on 4/13/13

NO it is the RCC who split the removed one, and split the last two

"The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.
---francis on 4/13/13


symbolic. it is for us to remember him. he only died onetime, so thinking it literal doesn't make sense.
---womandisciple on 4/13/13


MarkV, the commandments are listed in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21.
Saying have no other god besides Me, is still on the subject of have no graven images as a god in place of the ME.

If I say don't eat or drink today. Then I say don't eat any food or drink any liquids.
Am I not still telling you not to eat or drink? I am telling you in details. In case you claim I was talking about not eating plastic or drinking gasoline.

Plus, there is only 10 commandments. So as I understand it, Protestant are the ones who divided the 1st commandment into 2 and added the last 2 commandments into one.
As if Women are the same as objects.
You tell me, which one would anger you the most: Someone coveting your Wife or your car?
---Nikki on 4/13/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Stores


Nikki, you say the RCC follows Jesus. And I question that because Jesus was dethrone as Head of the Church in ( A.D. 313).
The Second Commandment was removed from Second and added to the first, to indicate it is the same commandment, of which it is not. Which gives life to the concept of making images and idols and worshipping them. From the beginning of the Universal Catholic Church it was fallen. At no time were instructions given for churches to combine together under one authority. And all those chuches who didn't join were persecuted by the RCC. Pledges were not given to Jesus, but to the RCC. They became the power of life and death for all who opposed it, beginning with the Jews, and also those the RCC called ana Baptist, and others.
---Mark_V. on 4/13/13


Christan, why do you need to call names?? Don't have a thin skin.
Anywho, the disciples all ran when they crucified Jesus.
The only one there at the cross couldn't get near Jesus.

Plus, they were obedient to Jesus. Jesus told them to take bread, wine and pray as He did on the last supper.

Catholics follow Jesus as HE wants us to follow Him.
We don't follow our own designs and wishes.
If Jesus states it! We believe it because Jesus can't not mislead us. He is truth.

As for Paul, he didn't tell us it was a symbol as you keep added to the bible on his behalf.
Nana explained earlier to you. You can be condemned on a symbol.
God isn't going to condemn me for murder because I pretended to murder someone.
---Nikki on 4/12/13


\\Nikki, you are a perfect definition of one with the erroneous understanding and mind.\\

Christ said, "This is My body.'

You believe He meant, "This is NOT My body."

Yet you say we misunderstand Him.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/13


Nikki, you are a perfect definition of one with the erroneous understanding and mind. Here's why:

When Christ broke bread and drank wine with His disciples in Matthew 26:26-28,
- what was He holding before them?
- His cut up flesh and blood dripping in the cup?
- and when He bled to death at Calvary, was there any account of His disciples rushing up to eat His body and drinking His blood?
- your Romish temple practice otherwise.

And forget about Paul? It's precisely because of Paul that Christians (notice I say Christians) are taught the symbolism of the last supper when you and your band of cohorts want to eat and drink Christ's flesh and blood like cannibals.
---christan on 4/12/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Business Training


John 10:6 but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

---e.lee7537 on 4/11/13

And he did explain to them :

"Jesus therefore said to them again: I am the door of the sheep." V 7

As he as done many other times, "Mark 4:34 "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples."

But on Jhn 6:60 "Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, "This is a hard saying, who can listen to it?"

"After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him." Jhn 6:66

No word about Jesus calling them back and saying, you misunderstood me let me explain...
---Ruben on 4/12/13


e.lee7537 * John 10:6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.It is a simple fact that Jesus often spoke figuratively///

The debated is not whether Jesus spoke figuratively or not, Did he speak figuratively in JHn 6:54? If your understanding that Jesus spoke 'figuratively' in eating his flesh then in order to inherit eternal life , one must revile Jesus! Look like scripture verse that speak symbolically eating flesh (Micah 3:3, Psalm 27:2,)
---Ruben on 4/12/13


\\It's your convoluted understanding that's being called to question.\\

So, when Jesus said, "This is My body," to say that Jesus meant the exactly OPPOSITE of what He said, namely, "This is NOT My body," is sound understanding.

Do I understand you properly, christan?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/12/13


1 Corinthians 11:27_30 "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep."
---Nana on 4/12/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Software


Do tell: where in Scriptures, now ..that whenever we do the last supper that the bread and wine turns into His "real" body and blood?---christan on 4/11/13

Forget Paul since you misunderstand his letters to the Corinthians.
Pay attention to Jesus and Follow Him!

As for your question, I will tell:
Matthew 26:26-28
"Take and eat, this is my body." Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins."

(Symbolism doesn't bleed)

Mark 14:22 "Take it, this is my body."...
Luke 22:19-20, the same, all during the Last Supper.
---Nikki on 4/12/13


Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said:..---micha9344 on 4/11/13

The disciples did not leave Jesus over a symbol! Plus, tell me why in the past, every time they misunderstood Jesus, Jesus corrected them, but not this time???

When they thought Lazarus was asleep, but Jesus told them he was dead. Many other times Jesus corrected.
I will tell you why:
Because they DIDN'T MISUNDERSTAND HIM!!

JOHN 6:60
Then many of the his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is HARD, WHO CAN ACCEPT IT?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "DOES THIS SHOCK YOU?....

SYMBOLISM ISN'T HARD TO ACCEPT.
---Nikki on 4/12/13


"In fact he(Jesus) said : "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." V 55" Ruben

Of course I know what Jesus said. It's your convoluted understanding that's being called to question.

Do tell:
- where in Scriptures, now that Jesus is ruling from the highest that whenever we do the last supper that the bread and wine turns into His "real" body and blood?
- in the last supper conducted by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11, there's no mention of such a thing ( that's why your understanding of John 6 is convoluted to say the least)

The "eating of His body and blood" is symbolic of the Christian being "IN HIM", hence the Christian is "the body of Christ".
---christan on 4/11/13


\\And you are testifying that Jesus Christ was advocating that you become a "cannibal" by literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood? Doesn't that sound exactly like witchcraft and voodoo?\\

No, it doesn't.

But YOU sound like the ancient Romans pagans who persecuted the Christians on these very grounds: sorcery, vile rites, and cannibalism.

Keep on blessing us and increasing our heavenly treasure, christan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Advertising


Ruben //If Jesus was speaking "Figurative", he would be saying "He who reviles or assaults me has eternal life."

John 10:6 This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

It is a simple fact that Jesus often spoke figuratively as He claimed He was the Door, the Good Shepherd, that Gate, the Bread of Life, etc.

I remain unconvinced but convinced that the Roman Church claim to change the elements into the actual flesh and blood of Christ is fallacious.

You simply take one thing figuratively and yet another thing non-figuratively. But what is your criteria but to serve the vested interest of an institution often noted for its corruption?
---e.lee7537 on 4/11/13


e.lee7537 * There is a parallel between John 6:54 and John 6:40.

Actually the better parallel is the manna in the desert which they physically consumed (JHn 6:49) and the 'New' Bread which we must consumed (Jhn 6:51)

e.lee7537 * So we can equate "everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him" to "whoever feeds on my flesh..

Whoever believes in him has to also believes in his words:

""For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed."V 55

If Jesus was speaking "Figurative", he would be saying "He who reviles or assaults me has eternal life."

Just look like scriptures verses like Psalm 27:2, Isa. 9:20, 49:26, Mic. 3:3..

---Ruben on 4/11/13


Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood, describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both,of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul, as also the Lord of flesh and blood.-Clement of Alexandria (150-215 AD)
---micha9344 on 4/11/13


christan * And you are testifying that Jesus Christ was advocating that you become a "cannibal" by literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood?

" How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" "cannibal"(JHn 6:52)

Lets see what Jesus said :

unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" v 53

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." V54

In fact he(Jesus) said :

"For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." V 55

Nothing here about, of course it is not my real flesh that would make you a "cannibal"?
---Ruben on 4/11/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Eating Disorders


you are testifying that Jesus Christ was advocating that you become a "cannibal".. I rest my case.
The Scripture says "bread" but you say "wafer" - and they are similar to you in terms of content? I rest my case..Scripture says "this do in remembrance of me" and you say the "wafer" then turns in a real body?--christan on 4/11/13

Your cases are messed up.
We never say wafer. That is a Protestant slur. You say it so much you think we say it.

Next, if Jesus states His body is TRUE FOOD and blood is TRUE DRINK, how dare you call it cannibalism.

You sound like the disciples in John 6:66.

Take a close look at those numbers.
---Nikki on 4/11/13


"John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. So ask yourself a question. What Lamb are you eating?" Nikki

And you are testifying that Jesus Christ was advocating that you become a "cannibal" by literally eating His flesh and drinking His blood? Doesn't that sound exactly like witchcraft and voodoo? I rest my case.

The Scripture says "bread" but you say "wafer" - and they are similar to you in terms of content? I rest my case, again.

Scripture says "this do in remembrance of me" and you say the "wafer" then turns in a real body? Can't you see how messed up your doctrine is?
---christan on 4/11/13


\\The Vatican believes that in transubstantiation, the bread and wine literally turns into the body and blood of Christ.\\

WRONG!

1. It's not just "the Vatican". It's ALL the pre-reformation Churches (including those that were never in communion with Rome) and some post-Reformation ones, as well.

2. "Transsubstantiation" is an attempt to explain HOW the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. Orthodoxy and at least most of the other Eastern Churches simply say this is accomplished by the action of the Holy Spirit, without defining it further.

3. We say it is TRULY the Body and Blood of Christ. Something can be true without being literal.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/13


\\Doesn't this resembles witchcraft and voodoo?\\

No, it doesn't.

Christ said to storms, "Peace! Be still!" and it was so.

He said to demons, "Depart," and they did.

He said to the sick, "Be healed," and they were.

He said to deaf ears and blind eyes, "Be opened," and they were.

He said to the dead, "Rise! Come forth," and they did.

He said over bread and wine, "This is My body. This is My blood."

If you can believe nothing happened, your faith is stronger than mine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/11/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Travel Packages


Christan, OT prefigure the NT.
Please read Exodus 12 passover ritual prescribed
Then read John 6 The Bread of life Discourse.
Then read 4 gospels passover.

You will discover Jesus isn't going to be pass. He is the lamb of God. Read the rules in Exodus 12 to see why Peter, James and John couldn't stay awake. In Exodus if anyone went to night, the 1st boy born dies. Lamb must be cooked whole. No broken bones. Jesus on the cross without broken bones. But, the must important instruction given in Exodus was that everyone had to eat the lamb to live and to passed over. If anyone didn't he was dead.

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life.
So ask yourself a question. What Lamb are you eating?
---Nikki on 4/11/13


One is free to believe the Thomistic doctrine with all it implies, if one wishes.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/9/13

Oh yes Cluny, Thomas Aquanis is the Eucharist King in the Catholic Church.
---Nikki on 4/10/13


"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."
1 Corinthians 11:24,25

Keyword: REMEMBRANCE. Hence, when the Christians gather for the Lord's supper, it's symbolic and to remember His last night before He gave His life up that the Christian may live.

The Vatican believes that in transubstantiation, the bread and wine literally turns into the body and blood of Christ. Doesn't this resembles witchcraft and voodoo? Nothing "technical" about it.
---christan on 4/10/13


While the 39 Articles and the Homilies rejected the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation, at the 41th meeting of the Anglican-Roman Catholic Dialogue in the United States of America, on January 6, 1994, the bishops assembled affirmed that Christ in the Eucharist makes himself present sacramentally and truly when under the species of bread and wine these earthy realities are changed into the reality of his body and blood. In English the terms substance, substantial, and substantially have such physical and material overtones that we, adhering to The Final Report, have substituted the word truly for the word substantially... The bishops concluded the Eucharist as sacrifice is not an issue that divides our two Churches." Wikipeida
---e.lee7537 on 4/10/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Credit Repair


Actually, Nikki, transsubstantiaion in the technical sense, with the Aristotelian distinction of substance and accidents has NEVER been officially accepted by any Orthodox council.

The official Orthodox teaching is that the bread and wine are truly changed into the Body and Blood of Christ by the power and operation of the Holy Spirit, and we leave it at that.

One is free to believe the Thomistic doctrine with all it implies, if one wishes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/9/13


Nikki: Anglicans, if you read very carefully though all the writings, seem to agree with Transubstantiation in their older writings (pre1800) but I have found noting after 1800 - either pro or against!
So I take it that now we (as I'm Anglican) officially can't decide - I do accept Transubstantiation, personally
---Peter on 4/9/13

That's why I said 'I think' because I'm Anglican.

Thank you for the correction.
---Nikki on 4/9/13


Nikki: Anglicans, if you read very carefully though all the writings, seem to agree with Transubstantiation in their older writings (pre1800) but I have found noting after 1800 - either pro or against!

So I take it that now we (as I'm Anglican) officially can't decide - I do accept Transubstantiation, personally
---Peter on 4/9/13


The Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Episcopalian teaching is "Transubstantiation" which is the literal body and blood with the accidentals retaining the appearance of bread and wine.--born on 4/9/13

I don't think Anglican and Episcopalian believe in 'Transubstantiation'
But, you are correct otherwise.
Transubstantiation means only the substance has change, but the accident remains. Bread and Wine is the accident, but not the substance. Jesus' Body and Blood is the Bread and Wine.

Cold or heat is an accident.
You are a human person that is cold or hot. But the coldness or hotness isn't a substance.
---Nikki on 4/9/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Products


Ruben - thanks for your comment regarding William Webster as he does state the presence of Christ is with the Eucharist and that different church fathers had differing viewpoints as to the nature of the elements.

There is a parallel between John 6:54 and John 6:40.

(6:40) everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

(6:54) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

So we can equate "everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him" to "whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood" as both had the same ending.
---e.lee7537 on 4/9/13


e.lee William Webster in his book "The Church of Rome at the Bar of History"... It is worth the read for those among us that want to research this subject in more detail.

He also wrote this:

"From the beginning of the Church the Fathers generally expressed their belief in the Real Presence in the eucharist, in that they identified the elements with the body and blood of Christ, and also referred to the eucharist as a sacrifice, but there was considerable difference of opinion among the Fathers on the precise nature of these things, reflected in the fact that the ancient Church produced no official dogma of the Lord's Supper." (The Church of Rome at the Bar of History by William Webster, page 117)


---Ruben on 4/9/13


All we need to do is to accept the words of Jesus in that He said..
There is nothing about Jesus being re-sacrificed.---e.lee7537 on 4/9/13

Praise God, by mistake you said it right. Jesus isn't being re-sacrificed.
He is MADE PRESENT AGAIN in the Holy Mass.

But, you spoke wrong again. The priest isn't changing anything. The Holy Spirit is doing the work. Just like in Luke 1:35

Next, you need to follow your own advice. ACCEPT Jesus's Words in John 6:55-56
"For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Who ever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."

Stop picking and choosing what words of Jesus you wish to believe. BELIEVE THEM ALL!
---Nikki on 4/9/13


\\however, there is no reason to have any superstitious belief that the priest can change it into the body of Christ. \\

The priest doesn't change the elements.

The Holy Spirit does.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/9/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Divorce


The Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and Episcopalian teaching is "Transubstantiation" which is the literal body and blood with the accidentals retaining the appearance of bread and wine. Luther taught "consubstantiation" being not literal but con being with, Jesus is with the bread and the wine. Many others teach "symbols". I think Jesus is with the bread and the wine. More than a symbol. Less than literal. Regardless, "Do this in remembrance of me". It is a participation much like Halloween candy.
---born on 4/9/13


Nikki //You can keep the gold. I have Jesus' Body.


The reality is that all you get at your Mass is a small piece of bread and maybe some wine, however, there is no reason to have any superstitious belief that the priest can change it into the body of Christ.

All we need to do is to accept the words of Jesus in that He said "Take eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me....Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lords death until he comes. 1 Cor. 11:24f

There is nothing about Jesus being re-sacrificed.
---e.lee7537 on 4/9/13


\\The problem with the Roman Church & Eastern Orthodox churches is that they view their priest on the same level as superstitious pagans do with their witch doctors. \\

I cannot speak for Roman Catholicism, but I can assure you that NO Orthodox has this view of the clergy.

Doesn't it bother you to say things that you know nothing about and have no basis in reality?

As far as Tertullian, he has NEVER been considered a saint of the Church, and his works should be approached with caution, as he was actually a heretic and schismatic twice removed.

Besides, he's later than St. Ignatius.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/8/13


The problem with the Roman Church & Eastern Orthodox churches is that they view their priest on the same level as superstitious pagans do with their witch doctors. Magic! Magic!, Magic!Maybe they can change base metals into gold also.---e.lee7537 on 4/8/13

You can keep the gold. I have Jesus' Body.

So, according to your wisdom, (Luke 1:35 "The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will over-shadow you...) was done with magic?
The Holy Spirit can bring the 2nd Person of the Trinity into flesh with body and blood, but IMPOSSIBLE for the Holy Spirit to top Himself by becoming bread and wine for us?????

My God can do anything. And do I mean ANYTHING.
---Nikki on 4/8/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Marriage


Tertullian (c.155 ad) spoke of the bread and wine in the Eucharist as symbols or figures which represent the body and blood of Christ. He specifically stated that they were not the literal body and blood of the lord. When Christ said this is my body, he maintained that Jesus was speaking figuratively and that he consecrated the wine in memory of his blood (Against Marcion 3:19)

The problem with the Roman Church & Eastern Orthodox churches is that they view their priest on the same level as superstitious pagans do with their witch doctors. Magic! Magic!, Magic! Maybe they can change base metals into gold also. Bull dung.
---e.lee7537 on 4/8/13


And this food is called among us the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these, but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.-Justin Martyr
---micha9344 on 4/8/13


e.lee In church history we find no real consensus on what the elements actually constituted. Some of the early fathers held to the literal body & blood of Jesus, others simply as symbolic.

Give me a few Fathers that did not believe in the real presence of the Lord!

e.lee William Webster in his book "The Church of Rome at the Bar of History" covers this topic in its historical settings. It is worth the read for those among us that want to research this subject in more detail.

No he does not.

e.lee I more inclined to believe the elements are symbolic as the literal view is more superstitious.

It did not stop the early christians, did it?
---Ruben on 4/8/13


\\Some of the early fathers held to the literal body & blood of Jesus, others simply as symbolic.
\\

Can you give the actual names of any early fathers who saw the Communion as being "simply as symbolic"?

Remember, that in Greek thought, a SYMBOLOS was not an empty emblem, but was itself the thing signified.

BTW, it was not only the Church of Rome who believe this. ALL the pre-Reformation churches do so.

St. Ignatius of Antioch--where the followers of Christ were first called Christians--gave a CLEAR expression of this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/8/13


Read These Insightful Articles About Debt Consolidation


When Paul talks about having the Lord's Supper, he talks about drinking "this cup", but does not say drinking "His blood". And he says when you eat "this bread", and does not say eat "the body" or "the flesh" of Jesus. The Holy Spirit could have had him say it, if the Holy Spirit considers it to be true. Jesus does use symbols, and does speak with symbolism.

Paul says, "For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones." (Ephesians 5:30) So, the Holy Spirit does clearly say that we are the flesh and body of Jesus. The Holy Spirit does not directly say the communion bread is Christ's flesh and body.
---willie_c: on 4/8/13


First off, it's not mere "juice of the Vine," as this is invalid matter.

It's WINE that is supposed to be used.

The Greek word "anamnesis" does not mean a mere mental remembrance, but a making present of what is being commemorated.

"Symobolos" in Greek does not mean an mere empty emblem, as most people use it. but is itself the thing signified--a bringing together of two realities, in this case bread and wine and the Body and Blood of Christ.

Finally, the Eucharistic Body and Blood of Christ do not exist in services celebrated by ministers and churches NOT in the Apostolic Succession.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/7/13


In church history we find no real consensus on what the elements actually constituted. Some of the early fathers held to the literal body & blood of Jesus, others simply as symbolic.

William Webster in his book "The Church of Rome at the Bar of History" covers this topic in its historical settings. It is worth the read for those among us that want to research this subject in more detail.

I more inclined to believe the elements are symbolic as the literal view is more superstitious.
---e.lee7537 on 4/7/13


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.