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 ---e.lee7537 on 4/13/13
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Nana. Believing in Jesus (God, John 12:44) is NOT sufficient for you.
BUT, God's commandants to us is to believe in Jesus.

James 2:19 The devils believe in one God. They also reject Him, not submitting to His righteousness.

BUT for Christians, believing in Jesus is submitting to God's righteousness. And our works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

1John 2:6, how do we walk as Christ did?
We walk by faith, 2Cor 5:7.
Col 2:6, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him".
How did we receive Christ?
BY FAITH. And, as Col 2:6 says "so walk ye in him"

And remember, "the law is NOT of faith", Gal 3:12
---Haz27 on 5/3/13


Replacing the Bible with Theological Studies replaces the pillar of the truth and the ground of the truth with seminaries.

As a result for many the Bible is a closed book. They are told it should not be understood except by the theologically trained, ordained, and accredited.

Theologians pride themselves in knowledge of philosophy, religious traditions, and opinions of other theologians.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:8

The Bible was not given for theologians. It was given for every man to understand. It does not require the wisdom of the world, but it does require we study it.
---michael_e on 5/3/13


"If you believe in Jesus then you've CEASED from sin."
---Haz27 on 5/3/13

That is more of your fable.

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

Peter knows also that belief is not an all-in-all for a Christian and so, he says:
2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge,..."

Paul says, 1 Corinthians 13:13 "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity."

John says, 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
---Nana on 5/3/13


Nana.
1Pet 4:1
"Therefore, since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him. Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has CEASED from sin".

If you believe in Jesus then you've CEASED from sin.
If you believe in Jesus you're born of God (1John 5:1) and CANNOT sin (1John 3:9).
Who shall lay ANY THING (even sin) to the charge of those God has justified? Rom 8:33

And 1Pet 4:3-5 describes those in unbelief following their lusts, such as righteousness through works of the law.

Francis. You really do fail to grasp that our faith is counted for righteousness.
---Haz27 on 5/3/13


The only thing a sin cannot do is condemn a Christian to hell. It does not mean that our heavenly Father will not chastise us just as a loving father does if we do not repent.

We do still sin. As we grow in Christ we should sin less and less however. Its Gods plan of salvation. Sins are removed in HIS timing, not ours. The only sin we no longer are guilty of is the sin of unbelief in the Son of God.
---Jasheradan on 5/3/13




//Notice they never speak of the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/13
//


OK lying slanderer Markie, I'll speak of the spirit of the law. ....

How does one keep the spirit of the law without keeping the letter of it????

Can you keep the spirit of "thou shalt not kill" while commiting murder?

If you could give cogent answers to these two questions, then you might have some validity - but YOU CAN'T!!! You'll just bypass my questions and hurl more insults at me. How small.



---jerry6593 on 5/3/13


"Jesus said "sin NO MORE". And in Christ Christians cannot be charged with sin.
1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin".
---Haz27 on 5/1/13

1 Pet 4:1 do not say "we've "CEASED from sin". That, only in your fable.

What it does say is, "arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin" , that one who attains to that mind will not sin as he used to. This is further proven in 1 Peter 4:3_5 "For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:"
---Nana on 5/2/13


Jesus said "sin NO MORE". And in Christ Christians cannot be charged with sin.
1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin".
1John 3:9, we "CANNOT sin"
Rom 6:7, John 8:36 we're FREED from sin.
Note how the word "refrain" is NOT used.
---Haz27 on 5/1/13

If this is what your Pastor is teaching, my suggestions are these
1: take to your wife she may have been defiled by your pastor
2: get a DNA test for all children born to you while under his pastoral care
3: Find a new church

pastors who teach that no matter what a christian does it is not sin, are ALWAYS fleecing the flock if you get my drift
---francis on 5/2/13


Bro. elee, there is no use giving Scripture to Ruben or Jerry. They are defending their denominations come hell or high water. Ruben with his church fathers who were mostly philosophers bringing in their pagan and heathen ideas to the church and no Scripture because Scripture to them was not final authority, their word was final authority, and Jerry with the teachings of the written letter of the Law. Notice they never speak of the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/13


Haz: "And in Christ Christians cannot be charged with sin."

I know that you really want to believe this, because it makes Christianity a cake walk. But, like OSAS, it is cheap grace. But, you are on dangerous ground!

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 2:1 ... these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

---jerry6593 on 5/2/13




Jerry, you contradict God by saying we're to "refrain" from future sins.

Jesus said "sin NO MORE". And in Christ Christians cannot be charged with sin.
1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin".
1John 3:9, we "CANNOT sin"
Rom 6:7, John 8:36 we're FREED from sin.
Note how the word "refrain" is NOT used.

So SDA doctrine of repenting again and again and again, denies the work of the cross in taking away our sin.

Instead we see Heb 6:1 show we repented ONCE, of "DEAD WORKS". This is dead works of self-righteousness.

SDA's disobey God in that they continue with these DEAD WORKS of righteousness through the law. And thus SDA's MAKE themselves SINNERS, Gal 2:18.
---Haz27 on 5/1/13


Haz: You argue not against me, but against scripture! The "contradiction" you cite is in the scriptures themselves - not in "SDA doctrine" as you alledge. There is NO CONTRADICTION! The Bible throughout admonishes that we refrain from future sin and obey God's Commandments. Paul calls this laying sin aside and running the race for the prize (Heb 12:1), and Jesus says simply "go, and sin no more" (future). Past sins are to be repented of and forgiven.

You, on the other hand teach disobedience - continuance in sin - in CONTRADICTION to Scripture.


---jerry6593 on 5/1/13


Jerry. You misunderstand the scriptures you quoted.

For example you quoted Joh 8:11 "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

BUT you also said: "when we sin (and we will)".

The issue SDA's keep avoiding is the obvious contradictions in SDA doctrine.
You bring yourself under the law and say we have to keep it or else we're condemned, BUT then you yourself DON'T keep it.

Jesus said "go and sin NO MORE" BUT you contradict Jesus and say "WHEN we sin (and WE WILL)".

SDA doctrine has no credibility when it says you must keep the law or else your condemned, when the reality is no SDA's keep the law anyway ( as you admitted to).
---Haz27 on 4/30/13


Haz: "SDA's lack any credibility when they say KEEP the commandments and yet they DON'T KEEP them."

We've been over this before, but, like Lee, your mind is unable to retain it.

Does John lack credibility when he says:

1Jn 2:1 ... these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have ... Jesus Christ the righteous:

Does Pual lack credibility when he says:

Rom 7:22,23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, ... bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

How about Jesus?

Joh 8:11 ... Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.



---jerry6593 on 4/30/13


Jerry said:"there has always been Seventh-day Adventists - Those that keep God's Commandments"

Jerry ALSO said: "when we sin (and we will)", in Blog Topic Can we obey law perfectly (4/4/13).

Clearly SDA's DON'T KEEP the commandments, as Jerry has admitted.

SDA's lack any credibility when they say KEEP the commandments and yet they DON'T KEEP them.

Sadly, SDAs condemn themselves. They make themselves sinners by their doctrine of works of the law for righteousness, Gal 2:18.

They turn to the law saying we must KEEP it, BUT then they FAIL to keep the law, hence they are condemned as sinners.
---Haz27 on 4/29/13


e.lee7537 you have a lot of historic facts that need to be reconciled with biblical prophecy

1: the fact that most of the church in ROME ( not the early church) did not observe Sabbath is biblical prophesy:

Daniel 7:23 (ROME) The fourth beast shall.. think to change times and laws:

2: one thing that was NOT taught in the Early Church was the supremacy of Rome to rule over the Christian Churches,
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


Revelation 17:3 a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
---francis on 4/29/13


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Leeast: "the church no longer observed the Sabbath by the beginning of the 2d [sic] century."

I've given you several historical quotes which refute this lie, but your mind can't seem to hold on to them. It is a fact that since creation until now, there has always been Seventh-day Adventists - Those that keep God's Commandments and look for the second coming of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


---jerry6593 on 4/28/13


e.lee7537 * Ruben - While Cyprian believed the church was built on Peter as the head, what does he say about anything being passed downward to the Bishops of Rome?

"With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the chair of Peter and to the principal Church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source,Letter 59 (55), 14 to Cornelius of Rome, c. AD 252)
---Ruben on 4/24/13


--e.lee7537 on 4/23/13
2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some.

APOSTACY did not start After the deathof the apostles, it started during thier lifetime

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
---francis on 4/24/13


e.lee7537 * That is correct, but Webster does agree there was no consensus on the Eucharist.

"From the beginning of the Church the Fathers generally expressed their belief in the Real Presence in the eucharist, in that they identified the elements with the body and blood of Christ, and also referred to the eucharist as a sacrifice" (page 117)
---Ruben on 4/24/13


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Yes, like most cultist you have to believe that the church became corrupted upon the death of the Apostles, that their direct successors became apostates.

Try as you can, neither scripture nor church history has any support for your view that the Sabbath continued to be observed by the church. Even some Adventists church historians, more educated than you are, agree that the church no longer observed the Sabbath by the beginning of the 2d century.

What Adventism truly is, is a church of Hagar that bears children for slavery. Galatians 4. Sorry but you know not God nor His Word.

Sorry but I will not embrace the ministry of death and condemnation craved on letters of stone (2 Cor. 3:7,9)
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


the early church leaders many of whom were direct successors of the Apostles, established the tradition of communal worship on Sundays,
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

None of the apostles laid aside the commandments of God.
Try as you can, scripture does not support you
---francis on 4/23/13


Ruben - While Cyprian believed the church was built on Peter as the head, what does he say about anything being passed downward to the Bishops of Rome?

And also like to ask, did Jesus' commission to Peter, really provide immunity from error for the church. All I see is His promise that the church will survive, not that it will be error free.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall.. think to change times and laws:

God says that some time in the future, a word power will try to change times and laws of God.
---
And since there was NO command for the church to observe the Sabbath and since the early church leaders many of whom were direct successors of the Apostles, established the tradition of communal worship on Sundays, then clearly it was the Sabbaterians that sought to change the time and laws.1John 2:19

So I agree that your position lacking in both support from Scripture and history is clearly BUNK!

Sorry Frances but the SDA cornerstone verse Daniel 8:14 speaks ONLY of the earthly sanctuary.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


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one thing that was NOT taught in the Early Church was the supremacy of Rome to rule over the Christian Churches, nor was there anything in the early writings that would indicate any authority was invested in one person.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13
John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, [son] of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

first among equals
---francis on 4/23/13


Ruben //William Webster on his book 'The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, has no problem freely admitting the unanimous position of the Church Fathers of "baptismal regeneration"

That is correct, but Webster does agree there was no consensus on the Eucharist.

Sorry but I feel that the Roman Church interpretation is based on superstition and designed to control believers by a corrupt clergy.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


How important is the Bible to my faith?

Jude1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

If we really understand what Jude is saying, we understand that he is encouraging us to hold fast to the "truth" once delivered.

If we understand that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and that God is truth, then we understand that the Bible is extremely important to our faith once we've been born again by the Spirit of God and have ears to hear.
---trey on 4/23/13


e.lee7537 * Sorry Ruben but there was no consensus of viewpoint on the Eucharist, Baptism, or other beliefs held latter on by some churches.

William Webster on his book 'The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, has no problem freely admitting the unanimous position of the Church Fathers of "baptismal regeneration" :

"The doctrine of baptism is one of the few teachings within Roman Catholicism for which it can be said that there is a universal consent of the Fathers....From the early days of the Church, baptism was universally perceived as the means of receiving four basic gifts: the remission of sins, deliverance from death, regeneration, and the bestowal of the Holy Spirit." (Webster, page 95-96)
---Ruben on 4/23/13


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e.lee7537 * one thing that was NOT taught in the Early Church was the supremacy of Rome to rule over the Christian Churches, nor was there anything in the early writings that would indicate any authority was invested in one person.

St. Cyprian of Carthage

"The Lord says to Peter: 'I say to you,' he says, 'that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church' . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, ... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4, first edition [AD 251]).
---Ruben on 4/23/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13
You must consider what the word of God says

Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall.. think to change times and laws:

God says that some time in the future, a word power will TRy ot change times and laws of God

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Neither jesus, not his disciples would teach anything contrary to one single commandments of God

you view is that history proves correct doctrine is bunk
---francis on 4/23/13


//Bible or church history? I believe any key doctrine of the faith was taught in the early church and we can surmise that from church history.

Sorry Ruben but there was no consensus of viewpoint on the Eucharist, Baptism, or other beliefs held latter on by some churches.

However, there was much in common with the Early Fathers that we hold true to our doctrine today.

one thing that was NOT taught in the Early Church was the supremacy of Rome to rule over the Christian Churches, nor was there anything in the early writings that would indicate any authority was invested in one person.

Even Cluny would say much the same thing, however, maintain that his denomination was the one true and Apostolic church.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


e.lee7537 * Bible or church history? I believe any key doctrine of the faith was taught in the early church and we can surmise that from church history.

Like the Eucharist, infant baptism, baptism regeneration, faith and works..etc..


e.lee7537* If some doctrine not taught in the early church it should be suspect.

Like OSAS, Faith alone, Bible alone,baptism does not save, Eucharist is symbolic..etc...


You really need to pratice was you preach:)
---Ruben on 4/22/13


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I have had a good laugh off this one francis. do you speak from experience?
---shira4368 on 4/22/13


francis, maybe you should sit down and let Kathr teach you, you might learn something other then the law. Might, I said. But if you do not listen to her, watch out, the wrath of Kathr will come down on you. Might even dream of you. So Pay attention. She does believe in one of Calvins points, the assurance of the saints, at least she can teach you something about Calvin.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


Maybe one good reason why the Apostle Paul did not want women teach men is that they are all too subject to hormonal problems.
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13
WRONG AGAIN look how many women teachers are in the NT

Acts 18:26 when Aquila and PRISCILLA had heard, they took him ( FAMOUS APPOLOS) unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly

Romans 16:7 Andronicus and JUNIA,who are of note among the apostles

Acts 21:9 four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

Acts 2:17 and your daughters shall prophesy,

maybe you and MArk_V should sit at home and let some women teach you like timothy's grandmother Lois, and mother Eunice,, then you would not be posting so much garbage
---francis on 4/22/13


//everywhere I go on the blogs there you put my name.

Maybe one good reason why the Apostle Paul did not want women teach men is that they are all too subject to hormonal problems.

It is sad that there are those on this forum that rarely contribute anything positive as all they seem to want to do is to pick fights with other Christians.

1Co 11:16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


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Kathr, everywhere I go on the blogs there you put my name. Do you love me that much? you go to sleep thinking of me, and wake up thinking of me. Then you talk about me to others, but when you answer directly to me, you don't know what you are saying, you lose all control so you say a whole lot but do not make any sense when it comes to the Word of God. Obession is a sin, and also mental problem. You are in need of help.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/13


kathr, do you have a phd? just wondering.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


kathr, do you have a phd? just wondering.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


"We are complete in Him ". ...is in the Word,Bible, Colossians as a matter of fact. Yet Leej denies we are , just like Markv denies we are , calling God's word a lie. So truth be told ,Commentaries are far more important to Leej than the Bible, and defending the ENEPT is far more important to Leej than defending the truth of the WORD of God.

It seems strange for Leej to ask this question, and all around give evidence the Bible really is not that important to him.

When he needs an answer, he goes to commentaries, not Ask God who we are told to ASK FIRST.

What he really is saying is God has never answered him. My question...hummmmmm..why not?
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


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How important is the Bible to you in regard to your faith?
---e.lee7537 on 4/13/13

Easter - Resurrection day not being observed but celebrated even by all the ancient churches.
Christmas - not observed as but a time to witness of what God had given to the world in Christ
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13

HHHMM any of these in the bible?

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 4/20/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13

That is 100% true

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

when you receive the salvation of the lord, you then begin
love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and love thy neighbour as thyself.

but before you receive salvation Romans 8:7 the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 4/19/13


The word "Abide" means "to remain" or "to stay around" the passage of (John 15:9,10) where it's written:
" As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you, abide in My love. If you keep the commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." God could not be suggesting that believers keep all the commandments, because no one can keep them all as He did, the reason we need His works on the Cross. What the passage is saying is that believers will remain "abide" in His love. The remaining is evidence that salvation has taken place (1 John 2:19). and it also mean vice versa, those who do not remain, give evidence they were never saved.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/13


e.lee7537: The importance of the Bible to my faith in God and the Lamb is beyond description, i am not sure I can compose the words to describe how highly important it is.
---Adetunji on 4/19/13


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Abiding also entails obedience, John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." That, not only in spoken commands, 1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
---Nana on 4/19/13


//But obedience is the fruit of faith.

More precisely SDA article #19 Law of God, states that Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments.

The fruitage of our salvation is reflected in the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22, as the Christian is subject to the law of Christ. (see 1 Corinthians 9:20f

I would say that the fruit of faith is really something that one acquires, not from obedience to law, but from abiding in Christ. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.- John 15:5
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


Works salvation, salvation by 10 commandments
Adoration of Ellen White,
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13
Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience. We do not earn salvation by our obedience, for salvation is the free gift of God, to be received by faith. But obedience is the fruit of faith

That so-called faith in Christ which professes to release men from the obligation of obedience to God, is not faith, but presumption. "By grace are ye saved through faith." But "faith, if it hath not works, is dead

Ellen G White, Steps to Christ chapter 7
---francis on 4/18/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13
Fundamental Belief 10.

Experience of Salvation:
In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ... This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified, the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life.
---francis on 4/18/13


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That is even purer garbage::

Works salvation, salvation by 10 commandments
Adoration of Ellen White, a psychic and false prophetess
Belief in the Old Covenant Sabbath
Investigative Judgment belief - Christians judged on basic of works
Levitical food laws,
Easter - Resurrection day not being observed but celebrated even by all the ancient churches.
Christmas - not observed as but a time to witness of what God had given to the world in Christ
Sanctuary doctrine Jesus entered into the Inner Sanctum to begin judgment.- October 22,1844
The plagiarized writings of Ellen White

none of these are taught in the bible, yet these are parts of Adventism that afflicts His church even today.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


Bible or church history? I believe any key doctrine of the faith was taught in the early church and we can surmise that from church history.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13
That is pure garbage::

Endulgences
Graven images of peter, jesus, and mary
Confession to a priest which was not even done in the OT
Pitition to the dead ( mary)
Eating only fish on Fridays
Easter
Lent
Christmas
Ash Wednesday

none of these are in the bible, yet these are part of the 3rd century church and most remain with us today
---Francis on 4/18/13


Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
-This Jesus did on the First day of the week and not in a synagogue.-Awesome Sabbath reference don't you think?
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging, to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.
-This was also done outside of the synagogue to unbelievers-Thanks for the references francis.
---micha9344 on 4/18/13


micha9344 on 4/18/13
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Moses of old is not preaching about Moses it is preaching the word of God

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging, to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.
---francis on 4/18/13


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Paul did not always go to the Jewish synagogues to preach the Gospel,

Ac 18:6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, Your blood be on your own heads.

All church historians agree the house church was the model for the first 2-3 centuries.

Bible or church history? I believe any key doctrine of the faith was taught in the early church and we can surmise that from church history. If some doctrine not taught in the early church it should be suspect.


As for church historians and theologians, most are far more learned of the Bible and church history, are really the voices of their denomination.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
1Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness,
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
-Paul preached to the unbelievers, starting with the Jews. Where can you get the most Jews in one place? The synagogue on the Sabbath, of course.
-It was unbeleivers that went to hear the message. Where are Gentiles to go if they don't want to wait for Paul to come to them? The synagogue on the Sabbath, of course.
The preaching of Christ was not welcome in the synagogues. Paul suffered alot.
---micha9344 on 4/18/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13
Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

WHY DID THESE GENTILES HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL NEXT SABBATH? WHY COULD THEY NOT GATHER AT A PUBLIC SQUARE NEXT DAY?
WHY COULD THEY NOT MEET WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS NEXT DAY?

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

By the time of Acts 15 galatia was filed with Gentile converts. Where were the christians churches, that were filled with Gentiles meeting?

why is the word of God not read to them every first day?
---francis on 4/17/13


Even read Samuele Bacchiochhi, SDA church history who clearly proves the Sabbath was no longer observed by the church by 135 AD?
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13

Do you base you sabbath observance on history or the bible?

Did Samuele Bacchiochh base his sabbath observance on history or the bible?

I base mine on the bible, the ten commandments written in stone by God, and written in my heart by the Spirit of God

You base your on man and history
---francis on 4/17/13


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Lee: "And yes, I do believe in the 10 commandments .... the Sabbath was NOT mandated to Gentile believers."

There are two lies in that statement. You DO NOT believe in the Ten Commandments, else you would not defend their violation so enthusiastically. The NT clearly shows that both Jew and Gentile worshipped together on the seventh day Sabbath, and that the scripture commanding a change in the eternal Ten Commandment Law is conspicuously missing.

And for the umpteenth time, Bacchiochhi is a Jesuit-trained infiltrator - not an true SDA. Besides, how can you call yourself Orthodox when you ascribe to a pagan doctrinal detour which occurred over 100 years after Christ and the Apostles?



---jerry6593 on 4/18/13


Jerry - I do NOT believe in abortion at all, but what I do believe is life begins with there is blood in the fertilized egg (Lev. 17:11). Howbeit, a fertilized egg may NOT attach itself to the walls of the uterus and be discharged naturally.

And yes, I do believe in the 10 commandments but it is all to evident from both scripture and church history the Sabbath was NOT mandated to Gentile believers.

Even read Samuele Bacchiochhi, SDA church history who clearly proves the Sabbath was no longer observed by the church by 135 AD? And since that is true, there is no reason not to believe it was not taught either by the Apostles or their immediate successor.

Sorry but you head is too deep into the trash that Adventism teaches.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


//
Josef //Therefore it is extremely important to those of us who desire eternal life, defined as knowing Him "the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom [He] hast sent

---
Totally agree and respect your view, however there are those that believe one must acquire sufficient righteousness to MERIT eternal life.

Scripture does teach that our righteousness is the righteousness that is in Christ, not in ourselves.

1 Cor. 1:30-31 He is the source of your life in Christ Jesus, whom God made our wisdom and our righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Therefore, as it is written, Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


Lee: You claim to believe the Bible, and yet you believe in abortion and theistic evolution, but don't believe God's own handwritten Ten Commandments. You claim to be an orthodox believer, but deny that the Apostles kept the correct day as the Sabbath. Is there anything about you that is genuine?



---jerry6593 on 4/17/13


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Bro. Josef, that was a great answer concerning the Bible, what it means and how important it is to you. Phrase God, thank you brother.
---Mark_V. on 4/16/13


E Lee, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," and faith comes through understanding that which has been clearly offered to man of our Father, and that understanding comes through the our Father's word to man. For the gospel of Christ "is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who 'believes'" as in relies and depends upon it, trusting it enough to adhere to it. Which is possible only through the indwelling presence of His Spirit." Therefore it is extremely important to those of us who desire eternal life, defined as knowing Him "the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom [He] hast sent
---Josef on 4/15/13


Without the bible I would not have a faith OR I might have been drawn into a false faith decades ago. So many false religions have sprung up in my lifetime and the devil roams the earth seeking whom he may devour.

I was saved at age 18 and will soon be 70. I don't even like to think of the way my life might have gone had I not been saved whilst young.
---Rita_H on 4/14/13


The bible is extremely important to my faith. The bible is like a collection of love letters to me from God. The more I read it, the more I am amazed at my God. Mystery in love.
---nikki on 4/14/13


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2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust..
---kathr4453 on 4/14/13


The Bible to me has always been very important in my life as my main ministry for over 30 years has been with a Bible distribution society. I have seen and read of many that have come to faith in Christ, and as such has helped strengthen my own faith as I have seen time and again, God working through the written word.

It saddens me to see few Christians really spending any time studying His word as too often far too many fall into false doctrines.
---e.lee7537 on 4/13/13


Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
---francis on 4/13/13


The bible is 100%important in regard to my faith. God speaks to us through His Word. His Word is the only and final authority.

Anything else is GNOSTICISM.
---kathr4453 on 4/13/13


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Very. Even without the bible I still have faith, but the bible shows me what God wants me to know so both go hand in hand
---womandisciple on 4/13/13


Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD.

be it the written word as we have from preachers, or the written word as we have in the bible, faith is based on the word of God
---francis on 4/13/13


Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
TheSeg on 4/13/13

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth,
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
Is 55:11
---willie_c: on 4/13/13
been thinking of these.

And Jesus is the Word.
Jn 6:58 "This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever"
---Chria9396 on 4/13/13


How important is the Bible to you in regard to your faith?
---e.lee7537 on 4/13/13

More important that church history

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.


Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of THE SCRIPTURES

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the WORD OF GOD

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever.
---francis on 4/13/13


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as important as God pleases to make it

He knows what He means, and He does with us all that His word means to Him . . . better than we can understand and try to make it happen, ourselves.

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth,
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

So, God guarantees His word will do all He pleases . . . all His love means, I consider . . . better than we can believe, but can discover with our Father (c:
---willie_c: on 4/13/13


Notice that in all the passages TheSeg quoted, they referred not to the written words of the Bible but to the SPOKEN word.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/13/13


Mat_10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

God bless
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/13/13


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