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Why Is Abortion Wrong

I have a sister who believes in abortion. Doesn't care about millions babies dying. This hurts because we are black. She doesn't see the connection of abortion and slavery. Both groups of peoples are denied life. I tried to over look this, but I just can't. Does anyone have the same problem?

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 ---nikki on 4/14/13
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Nikki, you don't know what you are talking about. ALL hormonal birth control pills, which are taken ahead of time on a daily basis, work by suppressing ovulation. Only Plan B, which is taken after intercourse, stops the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus wall.

How dare you tell Grandma she didn't know what type of medication she took! You really need to stop because your ignorance is becoming offensive. Doctors prescribe birth control pills to treat non-pregnancy issues all the time. I personally know a 9 year old girl that is on birth control for an unrelated issue. You need to shut your mouth because you don't know what you are talking about.
---Jed on 5/2/13


Jed, lets stop this going back and forth.
Give a name of a birth control pill that ONLY stops a sperm from entering an egg.
Since you claim you know your pills.

Grandma, you states you been taking birth control pills for 25 years. So, what year did you start? Because 25 years ago they didn't even have birth control pills that pin point desired affects EXCEPT STOPPING A BABY FROM LEAVING THE WOMB ALIVE.

It is very convenient that you can't remember the name of the birth control pill, but you can remember that it didn't stop implantation???
SO WHY ARGUE EITHER WAY IF YOU DON'T KNOW?

Giving up names of the products can PROVE you both wrong or right.
---Nikki on 5/2/13


Nikki, you don't even know how hormonal birth control works? Wow! How ignorant of you to even be commenting on a matter you are unfamiliar with!
---Jed on 5/1/13


Jed is right. Hormonal birth control pills come in a special packaging with 28 pills. 21 hormone pills of one color. The other 7 a different color.
---Grandma on 5/1/13


All hormonal birth control (pill, patch, implant, shot, ring) works by suppressing ovulation - as well as effecting cervical fluid to prevent sperm mobility.

The only real exceptions are Plan B which either prevents ovulation or makes the environment within the uterus unsuitable for the fertilized egg, depending on what point it's taken at.

It seems as though Cluny is unaware of the existence of regular hormonal birth control pills which are taken all month long. This is the most common type of birth control. What he is talking about is Plan B (morning after pill).
---Jed on 5/1/13




I took the birth control pills over 25 years ago, so I don't remember the name. They were definitely birth control pills. I don't care if you believe me or not.
---Grandma on 5/1/13


Grandma, I don't think you know what you took for your cyst.
They were not birth control pills. They were most likely HORMONES pills.
All birth control pills are hormone pills, but not all hormone pills are birth control pills.

As Cluny asked you, please tell us the name of the medication you took.
I think you thought they were birth control pill, but were mistaken.

Jed, I don't know why are are talking about birth controls pills, because you are clueless on the matter.

How can you explain anything to Cluny if you don't know what you are talking about? You need to gather data before you jump into a subject.
---Nikki on 5/1/13


Cluny obviously knows very little about modern contraceptive methods. Almost ALL birth control pills on the market today work primarily by preventing ovulation. And Obviously all contraceptive devices work by preventing the sperm from reaching the egg and I hope I don't have to explain to Cluny how that works.
---Jed on 4/30/13


What was this Pill's name, Grandma?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/30/13


Cluny, sorry to break it to you, but there are birth control pills that do prevent ovulation. I took them when I suffered from ovarian cysts. Those cysts get worse during ovulation, so woman have to take the Pull to prevent ovulation to shrink the cysts.
---Grandma on 4/30/13




\\ referring to the pills, and devices, that prevent a sperm from fertilizing an egg.\\

But Grandma, this is not what the Pill does.

It neither suppresses ovulation, nor does it prevent the sperm from fertilizing the egg. It merely prevents implantation AFTER fertilization has taken place, and even after the first cell divisions.

I knew it was an abortifacient when I was still a Baptist before I got saved.

The same thing applies to Plan B and similar recreational drugs. I call it that because it cures NO diseases.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/30/13


Jed, thank you. You hit the nail on the head. I am referring to the church, as in pastors, deacons, etc. Not the Church, the Bride of Christ.
---Grandma on 4/30/13


a couple's use of birth control is between them and God, and is none of any church's business.---Grandma

The Church is the Bride of God.
---Nikki on 4/30/13


Nikki, I think Grandma was referring to the organized institution of church, which in NOT the bride of God. There's a difference between the Church which is made up of all believers and is the bride of God, and the "Church" which is an organization consisting of officers and preachers. The Roman Catholic "Church" is not actually the Church that the Bible refers to as God's bride. The Church the Bible talks about is the collective body of believers around the world.
---Jed on 4/30/13


Nikki: When I said, "birth control," in my previous posts, I was not referring to any abortion causing form of birth control. I was, and still am, referring to the pills, and devices, that prevent a sperm from fertilizing an egg. That, in my opinion, is none of any church's business.
---Grandma on 4/30/13


I know plenty of Catholic women who've use, or use birth control, including my Mother. Get real.---Grandma

It was your last words of 'get real' as suggesting to give up the fight or move on.

Birth controls are cancer causing drugs. Many are abortions labeled as birth control pills.

a couple's use of birth control is between them and God, and is none of any church's business.---Grandma

The Church is the Bride of God. God cares for His babies. So it is God who instructs the Church on moral issues such as birth control and abortion.

And you are wrong. It is the couple and their BABY they are trying to kill and God.
Which side do you think God is on? The Church. Because the Church is protecting the baby.
---Nikki on 4/30/13


\\Cluny, I wasn't discussing the morality of birth control. Personally, I believe a couple's use of birth control is between them and God, and is none of any church's business.\\

Some forms of birth control, such as the PIll and the IUD, do NOT stop conception, but are abortifacient. Therefore, it IS the Church's business.

While there may be some serious reasons why a given couple might have to use birth control, ultimately, it conflicts with trusting in God's providence to help you care for your children.

And for a normal healthy couple to refuse to have children is selfish.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/29/13


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Nikki, what does Cluny answering nicely have to do with anything?

I was simply trying to inform you that the Catholic women I have known all my life use, or have used birth control.

Cluny, I wasn't discussing the morality of birth control. Personally, I believe a couple's use of birth control is between them and God, and is none of any church's business.
---Grandma on 4/28/13


Grandma, Cluny answered you nicely.

The way the economy of the world is now, only few families can adequately take care of many children.---Adetunji on 4/28/13

Don't believe the lie. Only a few families and can adequately take care of many children, 2 expensive cars, a big house, internet, cable, TVs, fast food, $5 coffee and the like.

In our bad economy, our poor are still very rich compare to 85% of the population.

It is all in what you are willing to give up, and not give up.

My parents had 5 kids, with my dad only working making less than 20,000 a year.
NO food stamps or welfare. And I was still a FAT kid.
---Nikki on 4/28/13


\\Nikki, I know plenty of Catholic women who've use, or use birth control, including my Mother. Get real.
---Grandma on 4/27/13\\

Does this mean that the teachings of a church are created by majority vote?

I know of plenty of Christians who lie. Does that make it moral?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/28/13


nikki: Definitely we need birth control that is godly. The way the economy of the world is now, only few families can adequately take care of many children.
---Adetunji on 4/28/13


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Nikki, I know plenty of Catholic women who've use, or use birth control, including my Mother. Get real.
---Grandma on 4/27/13


It is better to prevent man & woman fluids from coming together to form foetus than killing the tiny human being in the foetus after it has being formed.--Adetunji on 4/25/13

I agree with you, but on you saying it is better to have birth controls?
---Nikki on 4/26/13


Sister was a Roman Catholic but her husband did not believe he should breed a wife like an animal. So they like 98 percent of all Roman Catholics used birth control pills or devices.---e.lee7537

Don't believe the LIE. THE RCC never survey Catholic Women. I am 41 yrs old. No Priest, Deacon or anyone asked me if I took birth control.

The RCC keeps asking the HHS to give up the survey's sources. They won't because there isn't any. They made up that number and you believd it.
Think for yourself.
As for your Sister. How dare you INSULT God!

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them(Adam and Eve), saying: "BE FERTILE AND MULTIPLY, FILL THE EARTH AND SUBDUE IT...

Animals breed.
We don't because we are made in GOD IMAGE!
---Nikki on 4/26/13


nikki: Abortion is bad because it terminates & kills what God had given life and existence to. It is better to prevent man & woman fluids from coming together to form foetus than killing the tiny human being in the foetus after it has being formed.
---Adetunji on 4/25/13


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Cluny//I have a cousin who used the IUD. She suffered a tubal pregnancy, which of course had to be terminated. She suffered depression and had to be hospitalized as a result.
\---\
Do you know for sure that the tubal pregnancy was caused by the IUD? I understand that a woman can have this kind of problem and not use IUDs at all

Some woman have had toxic shock due to Tampons, some have even died.

Should we band Tampons because this could happen?

Sister was a Roman Catholic but her husband did not believe he should breed a wife like an animal. So they like 98 percent of all Roman Catholics used birth control pills or devices.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


I am not saying who is right or wrong (and will not do so) but was telling you of an event I know about.
We will NEVER know whether both would have survived had the abortion not taken place.---Rita_H on 4/23/13

You are right.
My Sister in 1988 was giving a choice because they told her only one would live. My Sister had to sign several papers saying the save the baby, not her.

We have to make the decision in our minds if abortion is killing a baby or not.
So that when things get emotional we can still make the right decision.

I am sure the lady with the 6 kids wouldn't think twice to give up her life for one of them. Why? No questions in her mind they are living being.
---Nikki on 4/23/13


Nikki, this is a situation that I hope none of my near and dear ones ever find themsleves in and I thank God that this never happened to me. I am not saying who is right or wrong (and will not do so) but was telling you of an event I know about.

We will NEVER know whether both would have survived had the abortion not taken place.
---Rita_H on 4/23/13


Rita, I wasn't there as you were. But, lets think logically.
Baptist Preacher tells a man it is okay to drink wine. Can you say Baptists thinks alcohol okay to drink?

I have heard many accounts when a doctor has told a lady she needs to abort due to health. But they ignore the Doctor and had their babies. Both living.

RCC doesn't think ONE LIFE IS more important than another LIFE.

Now tubal pregnancy is another matter. It is science proof neither will live. Removing the fallopian tubes to save the Mother isn't the intent to kill the baby. It is called DOUBLE EFFECT.

The RCC cares about both Mother and Child.
Do you not see it odd that a Mother chooses to sacrifice one child for the other 6 children and herself?
---Nikki on 4/22/13


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Nikki on 4.18.13 - "The RCC has NEVER said to allow the mother die to save the child. Never"

In 1959 in my home town in the U.K. a mother of 6 was told that having her 7th child would kill her. The R.C. priest told her the child could not be removed (as the doctor advised should happen). Abortions were only ever performed to save a mother's life back then.

She wanted her 6 children to still have a mother and had the op. She had to leave the R.C. church for doing so.

This made headline news in our local newspaper.

My friend attended the same church as this family so I heard more about this than just the newspaper report.
---Rita_H on 4/22/13


---Cluny on 4/17/13 :The IUD and most forms of the Pill ARE abortifacient.

Cluny: You and I both know that.

My post was specifically directed at -e.lee7537 after he was rude to Warwick, so put that up to check HIS, and only his, view.

You are sensible, like Nikki, you didn't even need to answer!

Blessings
---Peter9556 on 4/18/13


Nikki: It is sad, but a lot of people just have vague notions from rumors about the RCC and then state those rumors as though they were fact.

In any case, the idea of attacking a denomination is silly - if someone wants to attack beliefs they should attack a person's belief - it is a person God will save or condemn, not a church

Yes, the church teaches the belief, but a member of the church may still stray even while the church is OK - or the opposite
---Peter9556 on 4/18/13


++//Or, do put it more simply, is that method of avoiding pregnancy classed by you as contraception or abortion.

It is normally known as the I.U.D
---
While the Roman Church and those who have subscribed to their view claim that IUD's are abortives, ++

e.lee, I came to this conclusion that the Pill and IUD were abortifacient back before I was 20 when I was still a Baptist before I got saved.

I have a cousin who used the IUD. She suffered a tubal pregnancy, which of course had to be terminated. She suffered depression and had to be hospitalized as a result.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/13


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Lev_17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
Where does it say the life is in the blood?
But were not really talking about the flesh here, are we.

You guys seem to be talking about life, itself!
So, I know no one here believe a, gamete, sperm or fertilized egg is a dead thing?
Whenever God talked about life, he said whose seed is in itself!

If you kill a man, how many men have you kill?
Take Abraham!
And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

How many?
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/17/13


I disagree on the basis that a fertilized egg does not contain any blood until it attaches itself to the walls of the uterus. "The life is in the blood" Lev. 17:11,,The official stand of the Roman Church is to let the mother die and attempt to save the child.---e.lee7537

The RCC has NEVER said to allow the mother die to save the child. Never. Where is this official stand? GIVE CCC numbers or a letter from the Vatican. You won't because it doesn't exist.
STOP DISTORTING THE TRUTH.

As for the fertilized egg is a complete HUMAN BODY!
Attaching to the womb is only for nutrition. No addition cell or blood given to the baby.
That's like saying a newborn isn't alive unless it no longer needs breast milk.
---Nikki on 4/18/13


But, Lee, the conceived cell starting pregnancy is made of the liquid materials that come from the mother's blood and the father's blood.

Also, Jesus in Mary's womb was Jesus as soon as He was conceived there.

Plus, when women of the early scriptures simply found out they were pregnant, they already knew they had children.

Your children, even, are in your heart, before you get married . . . if you are loving them even before they are conceived, and if in your heart you are desiring to have them.

But there are people who just do not love their unborn.
---willie_c: on 4/18/13


//Or, do put it more simply, is that method of avoiding pregnancy classed by you as contraception or abortion.

It is normally known as the I.U.D
---
While the Roman Church and those who have subscribed to their view claim that IUD's are abortives, I disagree on the basis that a fertilized egg does not contain any blood until it attaches itself to the walls of the uterus. "The life is in the blood" Lev. 17:11

Do not mistake what I say as I do not condone abortion except perhaps in the case of saving the life of the mother, in which situation I make no judgment.


The official stand of the Roman Church is to let the mother die and attempt to save the child.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


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Warwick: I love your explanation of what is happening to the egg immediately after conception. It brought back models I studied in high school biology, showing the way the DNA joins upon conception, and then how the egg divides into two, then four, then eight parts, all in that one cell, with each part having copies of the joined DNA. All of this does occur before the egg implants in the uterus wall. What a beautiful visual of God's handiwork.
---Grandma on 4/17/13


\\It is normally known as the I.U.D.
---Peter on 4/17/13\\

The IUD and most forms of the Pill ARE abortifacient.

The only forms of birth control that are NOT abortifacient are the ones that prevent the sperm and egg from meeting to start with.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/17/13


-e.lee7537 on 4/17/13: 'Often when an egg is fertilized, it does not always attract itself to the walls of the uterus. That is a natural thing that happens.'

Now in what you said, you do indeed say the truth, and so I will not argue. It does happen.

But I would ask a question:

Would you consider it acceptable to ARRANGE that IT ALWAYS HAPPENS - as some women do?

Or, do put it more simply, is that method of avoiding pregnancy classed by you as contraception of abortion.

It is normally known as the I.U.D.
---Peter on 4/17/13


lee, you have changed your position without acknowledging this. You first said the Bible does not explicitly condemn abortion but various people demonstrated your error from Scripture. You have not admitted the obvious and have retreated to the position that it is not abortion if the fertilized egg is kept from attaching to the wall of the uterus. As anyone can see this is not your original position. I think we can accept you have changed your mind without admitting it.
---Warwick on 4/17/13


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yes, warwick, you are entitled to the Roman Church view, but I do base my understanding upon both scripture (Lev. 17:11 - the life is in the blood) and science and simple reasoning.

Often when an egg is fertilized, it does not always attract itself to the walls of the uterus. That is a natural thing that happens.

However, if you really want to believe that a chicken egg is a chicken, all I can do is to leave you with your view.

Like with Francis, I will not waste my time with you on these issues.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


\\I have no doubt that the child in her womb was filled with blood and an alive human, but you willfully refuse to acknowledge the FACT that there is initially no blood in a fertilized egg of any species.\\

But the unborn Christ Child was just a few days old, and according to YOUR deep obstetrical knowledge did not have blood and was not alive.

Yet the unborn Forerunner recognized Him as being alive.

So did St. Elizabeth, when she called the Virgin Mary "Mother of my Lord," in effect, "Mother of YHVH."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/17/13


e.lee, if we take measures to stop the fertilized human egg from attaching to the wall of the womb I believe this is abortion. Once the sperm penetrates the egg a process is set in motion. The unfolding of the plan contained in the genetic information therein is referred to as entelechy. Every bit of genetic information, the plan to construct a human, is there and the building process begins. This is life. Hosea 9:11 implies life begins at conception. And of course you ignore David's comment (Psalm 139:16) regarding God knowing his "unformed substance" when he was in his mothers womb.

However the strongest argument against your view is that you have been unable to give any Biblical support for it!
---Warwick on 4/17/13


e.lee7537://And there ain't no blood in a fertilized egg of any species.// How are you so sure of this? Even in the chicken egg you will see some small bloody cluster. Do you know what constitutes that cluster?
---Adetunji on 4/17/13


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Warwick//e.lee, so now you are stepping back from your pro-abortion stance.

---
I define life to begin when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the walls of the uterus, NOT when an egg first becomes fertilized since the Bible declares that the life is in the blood (Lev 17:11).

So if you believe some intrauterine devices are abortive, then you have to hold the view that such users are committing abortion.

You are entitled to your own chosen belief, but I will stick to the Bible for my position.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


e.lee, so now you are stepping back from your pro-abortion stance. You appear to be saying that as soon as the child has blood it is murder to kill it. Is that so?

You wrote that the Bible does not "explicitly condemn abortion." I trust you now accept the Scriptures given here show the child growing in the mother is fully human, and that to kill it is forbidden?

As to whether stopping conception occurring in the first place equates to abortion is a question I will leave to others.
---Warwick on 4/16/13


James_L //So you believe God is your Father, and nature is your Mother?

---
Yes, God as the creator has made it so that there is a natural process involved in our lives. So when there is something wrong with a pregnant women, a miscarriage will occur.

In much the same sense, Gentiles who did not have the law do by NATURE. the things in the law.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


Warwick//What does Luke 1:44 mean "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

I have no doubt that the child in her womb was filled with blood and an alive human, but you willfully refuse to acknowledge the FACT that there is initially no blood in a fertilized egg of any species. That is the point I am making.

So intrauterine devices which prevents the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the walls of the uterus do not kill a human being. Leviticus 17:11
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


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Nikki,

I believe the words of our Lord when we are told:
Ex20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Christ said this:
Mt5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

I believe that there is no difference between murdering a fetus and murdering an adult. Both are wrong!!!

I didn't realize how strongly I believed this until I was confronted by a Dr. who suggested aborting my granddaughter because she might have a birth deffect! The next thing I knew I was in his face screaming. He stated he had a friend who had done thousands of abortions I yelled back that I have a friend in Heaven named Lord! I was asked to sit in the waiting room.
---trey on 4/16/13


Lee, if you believe a chicken in the egg is equal to a human in its mothers womb you are to be pitied.

What does Luke 1:44 mean "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Consider Psalm 139:16 where King David says God knew him when he was an unformed substance in his mothers womb. He was David, to God, even before he had a human form. And you equate David this to a chicken embryo. Absurd just doesn't express the foolishness of your belief.

Your pro-abortion stance is not Biblical, in fact Scripture condemns it.
---Warwick on 4/15/13


\\miscarriages are mother natures way....\\---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13

WHO ??

So you believe God is your Father, and nature is your Mother?
---James_L on 4/15/13


Warwisk if you really want to believe that a fertilized chicken egg is a chicken then go ahead. But for those of us that think more deeply into this issue they come to believe Lev. 17:11, that the life is in the blood. And there ain't no blood in a fertilized egg of any species.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


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e.lee, on another thread you berate another, using Scripture while here you totally disregard it. Ironic.

Unlike chickens God holds mankind in a special place in His heart and straightforwardly tells us unborn babies are human.

Born has shown this well:

Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Psalm 139:13
For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mothers womb.

Also as I pointed out Exodus 21:22,23 says if an unborn child is killed the killer must pay life for life.

But you ignore these Scriptures showing your belief is not based in God's words. Maybe you have unconfessed guilt concerning abortion?


---Warwick on 4/15/13


Abortion is wrong, a work of Satan's kingdom, along with all the others. It is tragic that a young mother would kill her own unborn with whom she could learn real love > "learn from Me," Jesus says in Matthew 11:29.

So, it is not only against life, but against love. Ones may kill in order to have the selfish lives they want, plus they may fear losing the acceptance of ones who are pressuring them to become killers. So, they are unsure of getting love. Unsure love could be America's number-one national security problem.

Such people are slaves of Satan's kingdom, unable to make others free.
---willie_c: on 4/15/13


\\The Bible nowhere tells us when life begins\\

The Bible doesn't give the multiplication table, either. That's because this is a SCIENTIFIC issue, not a Biblical one.

And science says that for every species, a new life begins at conception.

The courts, however, with no basis in obstetrics, said this doesn't apply to human beings.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/15/13


born5638 - the sin of Onan was that he refused to impregnate his deceased brother's wife NOT that he dumps his semen onto the ground.

Secondly, as for conception being when the female egg is fertilized, you really have to believe that a fertilized chicken egg is a chicken. There is NO blood in a fertilized egg until it attaches itself to the walls of the uterus.

I believe that it is a normal function of the female body to on occasion discharge a fertilized egg before it can attach itself to the wall of the uterus.

And miscarriages are mother natures way of rejection when something is not right.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


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"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

Abortion simply goes against the commandment of "Thou shall not kill."

But wait, there's more that condemns the heart of the man. Jesus taught, "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."
---christan on 4/15/13


//Oddly she doesn't seem to look at herself as she views abortion.
She doesn't see how she is doing the same when she voted for Obama, thinking only on what hand outs she can get.//

Ah, the root of the problem with being human, I am not talking about abortion. The idea of entitlement, Just like the Pharisees, we see other peoples issues and how it effects us but we do not see our issues and how they effect others. We (humans)are great liars to ourselves, justifing our actions because we are the exception to the norm.
---Scott1 on 4/15/13


"I don't see the connection between abortion and slavery." Bug, Cluny, I see the connection clearly. The unalienable rights of the individual to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" is grossly violated in both instances. Just as the "slave owner" considered it his right to decide which of "his slaves" had a right to life, and that injustice was granted him by the court. Likewise there are women who consider it their right to decide which of their unborn children has a right to life, and that injustice was also granted them by the court.
---Josef on 4/15/13


e.lee makes an interesting point. YET READ GENESIS 38:9-10, 1 TIMOTHY 2:15 and MALACHI 2:15.

Genesis 38:9
Onan knew that the child would not be his, so he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from offspring. What he did was wicked in the Lords sight, so the Lord put him to death.

e.lee writes: What I have a problem with, is the belief held by some that life begins at conception rather than when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the walls of the uterus. Since a fertilized egg does not contain any blood, it is not yet a life. Some birth control devices prevent the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the wall of the uterus.
---e.lee7537

Did not God make one? And why one? Because He sought a godly offspring.
---born5638 on 4/15/13


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Please don't tell me life begins at birth. A baby has a heartbeat not long after conception. They are a real person with a real heart, lungs, hands, feet and a brain. An unborn baby is as much a person as anyone. I sure wouldn't face God with that on my conscious. Bro. Craig Edwards preached a sermon about what happens to a baby being aborted. Anyone who thinks an unborn child is not real needs to hear that message.
---shira4368 on 4/14/13


Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

Psalm 139:13
For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mothers womb.

Micah 6:7
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

Isaiah 49:15
Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I will not forget you!

Ezekiel 23:37 they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me

Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5 something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.
---born on 4/14/13


e.lee, How does Exodus 21:22,3 fit in with your belief? "When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the womans husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life,"

To me this says that if the unborn child is killed then those who caused its death are to be put to death. This says the unborn child is treated as a human. Not so?
---Warwick on 4/14/13


The Bible nowhere tells us when life begins nor does it explicitly condemn abortion.

What we have seen from history is that the birth of a child is when life begins.

But what we have now is basically a decree from the church that abortion is morally wrong.

And I am inclined to believe that the church has the authority to rule on this issue.
---e.lee7537 on 4/14/13


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The problem is SIN Nikki of which we're all guilty. It appears your sister isn't a Christian. So, you need to pray for her daily & live a Christian life before her so that your Christian example may woo her to the Lord.
---Leon on 4/14/13


Abortion denies the baby's right to live. When a child, teenager or adult are out and about, living their lives, enjoying their lives, they are GLAD that they were not aborted and were allowed to live. It'd upset them to imagine their parents even considering aborting them when they were unborn. Abortion is also Murder. That violates GOD's Command, Exodus 20:13. Only GOD has a right to say whether the baby lives or dies, 'cause HE's the ONE Who created that soul in the first place. There've been many times that a woman, planning to have an abortion, will be shown ultrasound pics of her baby moving around inside, and she ends up having compassion for the baby and decides to give birth to the child after all. Those are GOD-moments.
---Gordon on 4/14/13


\\What I have a problem with, is the belief held by some that life begins at conception rather than when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the walls of the uterus.\\

When the unborn Christ Child was yet a few days old and still unattached to the walls of the uterus according to obstetrics, He was recognized by St. Elizabeth (herself inspired by the Holy Spirit) as God Incarnate!

The Bible supports the scientific idea that human life begins at conception.

This would mean that forms of the Pill that prevent implantation are actually abortifacient.

Try again, e.lee.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/13


e.lee7537 on 4/14/13:

'Since a fertilized egg does not contain any blood, it is not yet a life.

Leviticus 17:11a 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood,...'

Your use of this verse is reasonable, but you COULD alternatively say that since there is no way to KNOW when the presence of blood begins (unless you kill the fetus), you just should not carry out the abortion.

I mean, you could say that the IUD is a means of contraception (in reality one could equally well say it is a means of abortion, in the way it works), but that is not the issue here
---Peter on 4/14/13


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Cluny and KarenD are correct.
The connection to slavery I was speaking about my sister is that she would get so mad and hurt thinking about how our ancestors were treated.
She couldn't believe anyone could do such horrible things to another person in keeping them in bondage.
She couldn't understand how the average white man didn't stop slavery or didn't rise up against it. Nor why the civil war had to happen just to stop slavery.

Oddly she doesn't seem to look at herself as she views abortion.
She doesn't see how she is doing the same when she voted for Obama, thinking only on what hand outs she can get.
How she has turned her back on another group of people.
Same sin committed. Except abortion is worse.
---Nikki on 4/14/13


I hate abortion. Read my profile. The purpose of our existence is that God wanted FAMILY. He could have made us all as Adam (from dust) or as Eve (from a rib) or in the manner of Jesus (virgin birth). He could have formed us from stones. But he chose to make us male and female to in this way involve us in bringing about his family. All scripture is summarized in Mal 2:15. (AMP) And did not God make [you and your wife] one [flesh]? Did not One make you? And why [did God make you two] one? Because He sought a godly offspring. 1 Tim 2:15 says "women will be saved through childbearing" (not abortion). Deuteronomy 30:19 "choose life that you and your children may live." There should be openness to children. Gen 38:9-10.
---born5638 on 4/14/13


I don't see the connection between abortion and slavery either. The closest one gets is the story of Moses where the Pharaoh instructed the Midwives, "if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him, but if it is a girl, let her live. The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do, they let the boys live. Because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own. (Exodus 1) WE ARE ALL SLAVES. Romans 6. 2 Peter 2:19
They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravityfor people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.
---bug on 4/14/13


While I do not see the connection between abortion and slavery, there IS a connection between the modern contraception and abortion movement on the one hand, and racism on the other.

Margaret Sanger, who founded Planned Parenthood, said, "We don't want word to get out that we want to exterminate the negro population."

The motto of what was first called the American Birth Control League (now PP) was "More children from the fit, less from the unfit." And anyone who was not a white Protestant European was considered "unfit."

It's also no secret that MS corresponded with leaders of the Third Reich.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/14/13


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Nikki...Tell your sister to do some research on Margaret Sanger who founded Planned Parenthood and she will see what Sanger's intentions were.
---KarenD on 4/14/13


Does anyone have the same problem?

Apparently your sister does not belong to a Bible preaching church.

What I have a problem with, is the belief held by some that life begins at conception rather than when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the walls of the uterus.

Since a fertilized egg does not contain any blood, it is not yet a life.

Leviticus 17:11a 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood,...

Some birth control devices prevent the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the wall of the uterus.
---e.lee7537 on 4/14/13


I hope that I am never drawn into any decision making about abortion within my family. My personal feeling is that an abortion should only ever take place where there is an ectopic pregnancy. Babies (virtually) never survive that but mothers die if the baby is not removed.

I can think of no other reason to justify an abortion even though I understand all the arguments about deformed babies etc. yet I feel incredibly sad when unwanted babies are born or children with known problems from which they will die very soon.

I wish I could give a better answer than this one. We can only trust that God knows best.
---Rita_H on 4/14/13


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