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Range Of Sins

Matthew 5:19 speaks of "least" commandments and "least" in the kingdom of heaven. Does this mean that even in heaven there is no equality but a ladder of worthiness? And that some commandments are more important?

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 ---Geraldine on 4/14/13
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///Maybe you need a face lift MarkV, but physically we are dead to this physical world.

Apparently Kathryn has not never studied the doctrine call sanctification.

She assumes that once a person is in Christ, that person become perfect in all aspects of his or her life - blind to their own sinfulness.

Such theology is an apostate teaching, as such they are antinomians - one who believes that faith and divine grace bring about salvation and that it is therefore not necessary to accept established moral laws

I cannot accept such theology as it is foreign to the teaching of the church for over 20 centuries.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Kathr4453// if I died today, GUESS WHAT, I AM COMPLETE IN HIM.

Do you honestly believe being COMPLETE in Christ, you are now free of sin and will not have to give an account of your actions? If you believe that you really need help.

---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Are you calling Jesus Sacrifice UNFINISHED? Are you doubting His Deity? You call a lie, that we are "sanctified" through the Body of Christ once and for all, and that through "one offering" He has PERFECTED FOREVER those who are "sanctified".

You really don't understand salvation do you LeeJ? And this is not what Mark_Eaton is saying either.

If I died today my sin is forgiven PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE....period.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Leej, isn't it funny how you all apply..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, when it suits your arguments here on line BUT totally contradict yourself when you get caught with your pants down.

Where do you draw the line of "condemnation" LeeJ, only when it suits your argument against SDA's?

I do know Calvin taught that "you all" would have to stand before a tribunal on Judgement day.

I however will stand IN CHRIST, along with all those IN CHRIST. Totally Justified by His BLOOD!

You will be standing on your own merits, before a tribunal...condemned!
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


MarkV you said "Physically there is a lot of work to do"??? What part of "physically" are you referring to , your old flesh man. Sorry that old man died with Christ, and God does not see us after the PHYSICAL flesh any longer.

Maybe you need a face lift MarkV, but physically we are dead to this physical world. Colossians 3:1-4.

Our PHYSICAL is not being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord.

Our old physical man is not being remade. It was crucified! The NEW CREATURE is not after the temporal physical.
We don't even know what we shall be but we know we shall be like Him.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Kathr4453// if I died today, GUESS WHAT, I AM COMPLETE IN HIM.

Do you honestly believe being COMPLETE in Christ, you are now free of sin and will not have to give an account of your actions? If you believe that you really need help.

Micha9344 is correct, your statement does sound hypocritical.

Ro 14:12 So then each of US will give an account of himself to God.

Glad you are not a teacher of Gods word.

Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, ... for you know we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

I do not have a clue about your church affiliation but if they believe as you do, they really do not teach the word of God.

Suggest you read again what Mark Eaton stated.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13




I have never met a christian who claims that they are without help from God in overcoming sin or overcoming the world

We cannot be perfect because in the past we have sinned, but from here on out is God not abel to keep us from falling?

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
---francis on 4/23/13


Micha, thank you brother, I agree with you. Also thank Mark E for explaining so well concerning our position with Christ. Spiritually we are a done deal, physically there is a lot of work to be done, and it's completion will be at the resurrection of the body, when we will receive our new bodies prepared for heaven. As long as we are walking on this earth in our physical bodies, we are not made complete yet. Paul gave a good example as to what he was going through even though he was saved. Kathr will argue til the sun stops shining.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/13


/... all AGREE WITH ME, Not YOU! So the real issue here is PRIDE .../ -kathr4453 on 4/23/13
It may just be me: Does anyone else see irony or hypocracy in this statement?
---micha9344 on 4/23/13

micha9344, NO, it's just you. I have yet to see or read anything remotely saying what LeeJ says on that verse including Calvinists...AND that is all I meant by that....if you care to really read in the whole of the context what was being said. LeeJ keeps referring me to his commentaries...Well, NONE agree with LeeJ, even his own guru's, OK, so let's just say it that way.

No one but LeeJ here is saying we need to come to sinless perfection....That is not what that verse is remotely about.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Romans 8:8-10
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his AND INCOMPLETE IN CHRIST..

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1st Corinthians 15:
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

**(when do you put on Christafter you are dead or NOW)

-----, Death is swallowed up in victory. You HAVE victory over death(RE: flesh/old man) IN CHRIST NOW.
YOU ARE COMPLETE IN HIM!
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


LeeJ, you have no clue where I worship. You sound like a spoiled rotten little 5th grade mean girl. What total immaturity you have displayed here.

LeeJ, if I died today, GUESS WHAT, I AM COMPLETE IN HIM. Go take a couple Mydol and lay down for a while. Your hormones are totally out of control. OR is it YOUR FLESH here out of control? And you make excuses for that by quoting Romans 7, and think Romans 7 EXCUSES your sinful fleshly behavior? WRONG! Paul NEVER TAUGHT we excuse our fleshly sinful behavior. Shall we continue to sin that Grace may abound...GOD FORBID!
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13




Mark_Eaton, thank you. finally someone who understands, and can explain it to LeeJ.

You know LeeJ, I heard a wonderful testimony from a man who had a bad attitude towards woman and even his wife. She became very ill, for years even. It was a weight, a rock really wrapped around his neck, until he repented of his attitude re: woman including his wife. When he repented, his wife was healed. God works in mysterious ways.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Kathryn - my advice still stands as it is you that has not studied God's Word in any depth.

Please go to your minister and get his (or her) counsel.

I say this because you have a deep scorn for commentaries written by the teachers the Lord has given to His church.

Also you are very contentious toward those more knowledgeable than yourself of God's Word.

You would certainly learn more if you spend more time listening then talking - the problem with many contentious women.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Mark_Eaton, in order for one to even taste of the victorious life in reality one must know and understand who we are and all that we have in Christ alone.

The victorious life is not victory over sin, but this world, false teachers, etc to be overcomers, as Paul tells us, we are complete IN HIM who is made unto us WISDOM and Knowledge... Not worldly knowledge, through philosophy or vain deceit.

No one comes to sinless perfection here and now, and I have stated over and over we do not...HOWEVER we can have VICTORY in Christ here and now, and we can KNOW that abundent life we have in Christ and the RICHES that are IN CHRIST ALONE... He is "ALL in All" and we have ALL in Him that is given unto us.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


/... all AGREE WITH ME, Not YOU! So the real issue here is PRIDE .../ -kathr4453 on 4/23/13
It may just be me: Does anyone else see irony or hypocracy in this statement?
---micha9344 on 4/23/13


LeeJ, you just don't hear or SEE a thing. I already KNOW what Colossians means...and you do not.

You need to seek council, maybe John McAthur can explain it to you. Yes, I've even looked up teh CAlvinists view and all AGREE WITH ME, Not YOU!

So the real issue here is PRIDE LeeJ, "your" PRIDE was wounded and you just can't admit you were wrong. So you think a woman is kept in teh dark, that God doesn't teach those who are women in HIS BODY. Do you know what that makes you?

---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


And as far as having victory over the FLESH, well one must be complete in Him as well to have that victory.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13

I would like to comment on this.

This is positional completion, not experiential completion. We are completed in Him now spiritually not physically. Just like being "seated with Him in heavenly places" is positional not actual. Our physical completion comes at resurrection, when we are given a spiritual body, and not anytime before.

If you believe you can walk in perfection in this physical body, you disagree with every person I have ever met and read about, including the Apostle Paul who had his "thorn in the flesh".
---Mark_Eaton on 4/23/13


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Kathryn - I strongly suggest since you have very little grasp of basic theology that you seek the counsel of your minister in regard to our position and walk in Christ.

I do fear that the church you worship at or belong to is one of those splinter groups that broke off from a major denomination and all they do is play guitars, beat on drums, babble in tongues, speak in divine utterances, and sing sing sing and make happy.

While you have the milk of the word, you need to get into the meat of the word.

Sorry that we cannot help you.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Leej, I didn't ask about the HOWEVERS, and if you continued to read Colossians, Paul never flipped the switch, said oh STOP GOD, I need to put a HOWEVER here lest the foolish will misunderstand what you are saying.

NOPE, Paul didn't do that, or quote from Scofield notes to explain it either.

And again, you seem to want to believe it has to do with YOUR understanding of sinless perfection.

Does God in Colossians continue to say what you said? NO.

Well, then, stop over-riding Gods word with your INCOMPLETE understandings, and putting commentaries where you find yourself in the dark.

No more YES YES! BUT....BUT nothing Leej, Paul never said BUT..
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Just remember Leej, WE don't battle anything, Christ in us does. And one MUST BE COMPLETE IN HIM in order to have victory over the enemy. And as far as having victory over the FLESH, well one must be complete in Him as well to have that victory. Just read Colossians AGAIN.

All you need is Christ in you Leej, THEN you are complete IN HIM, having all that you will ever need now or ever. He is our wisdom, our very life, strength, mind. No longer I but CHRIST IN ME. You won't have to resort to commentaries ever again being spoiled by philosophy and vain deceit . COMPLETE in HIM ..HE has become unto us that wisdom and knowledges.

Maybe that is why you fight that verse, because you lean on philosophy and vain deceit, and not Christ.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Francis//I don't think you know much about circumcision. It is a blood covenant Exodus 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
--
The verse does not even imply that the Sinai Covenant was a covenant of circumcision, as such was the covenant God made with Abraham.

Sorry but the New Covenant was a blood covenant, the blood being that of Jesus on the Cross who proved salvation for all who were to believe - and that not on works of the law such as obedience to commandments, but on grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone.

Christians are under the auspices of the New Covenant which is NOT a rehash of the Old. No respectful Bible scholar agrees with you.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


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//Leej, what I can offer here is that we are COMPLETE IN HIM. And if you understood this, you wouldn't be having these arguments. I'm not being sarcastic here.

Yes, I can see you really need some help with this.

In our POSITION we are COMPLETE in Christ as a result of the work of Christ, perfect and entire from the very moment He is received by faith. 1 Cor. 1:2,9, 1 Cor. 6:11, 15, Mt. 16:17, Col. 1:12-13

However, the Christians actual STATE or walk may be a quite different matter. We still battle the temptations of the flesh, the world system and the Devil. 1 Cor. 1:11, 3:1-3, 4:18, 5:2, 6:7,15, Mt. 16:23, Col. 3:8-9

Reference: p.114-116 Vol. 1, Introduction, Scofield Bible Course.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


Leej, what I can offer here is that we are COMPLETE IN HIM. And if you understood this, you wouldn't be having these arguments. I'm not being sarcastic here.

I cannot add what you fail to grasp.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/13


I don't think you know much about circumcision. It is a blood covenant Exodus 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
---francis on 4/22/13
You are wrong as both the Sinai Covenant as well as the New Covenant were initiated by blood.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13

That does not even make sense, I say what the bible says, circumcision is a blood covenant, and you say no, because the Sinai and new covenant was initial with blood?

well here is the NT proof:
Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

the cross brought ALL blood covenants to an end.
---francis on 4/22/13


Then Jesus Christ will fulfill the law for them.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13
SORRY NO

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth,

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

CHRIST STRENGTHENS US TO KEEP HIS LAWS, He does not keep them for us


1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
---francis on 4/22/13


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Francis describes anyone who breaks the least of the commandments as a lowlife.
---Haz27 on 4/22/13
NOT FRANCIS: JESUS

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When you do not want to obey God why put in off on another person?
---francis on 4/22/13


The greater sin that can be committed is one of rejection of Christ as Lord and Savior, the rejection of what He accomplished for us on the Cross as the complete atonement for our sins.

1 Cor.6:19b-20 You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


Francis describes anyone who breaks the least of the commandments as a lowlife.

Sadly, Francis is that lowlife, as he brings himself under the law to determine righteousness.

And those who bring themselves under the law, they make themselves a transgressor/Sinner, Gal 2:18.

And to continue on this path of being under the law, after knowing the gospel of Christ, is to sin willfully (Heb 10:26). Such have fallen from grace (Gal 5:4, Heb 12:15-17).

They are not doers of the word. They are hearers only, deceiving themselves, James 1:22.
---Haz27 on 4/22/13


So basically the other things which are rightfully called sin, is having another god, in scripture is expounding on the first commandment in the law
---francis on 4/20/13

SPOT ON! YOU HIT ON THE NAIL!
What more shall be said?


---Nikki on 4/22/13


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francis, everyday it is explained to you and you continue with the same commandments. Here you say,
"It is really up to you to show that between Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 one commandment has been dropped from the law."
The Commandments are very much alive to those who are under the Law, those who are lost. And since there is no salvation through the Law, they will remain condemned, unless God draws them to Himself, and changes their hearts and saves them. Then Jesus Christ will fulfill the law for them. And they will stand before God with the imputed righteousness of Christ. Belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, or stay condemned under the law.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


//I don't think you know much about circumcision. It is a blood covenant Exodus 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

You are wrong as both the Sinai Covenant as well as the New Covenant were initiated by blood.

Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."

Hopefully Kathr4453 can add to this issue.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13

It is really up to you to show that between Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 one commandment has been dropped from the law.

I don't think you know much about circumcision
It is a blood covenant Exodus 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Circumcision is given as a covenant because of lack of faith, to show that through Abraham God would send his seed and all the nations would be blessed.

The seed being Jesus Christ
The blessing being righteousness by faith to all who now believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour

we no loner need circumcision for the same reason we do not sacrifice lambs: THE LAMB of God has been sacrifuiced
---francis on 4/22/13


Leej, you say, " not ALL commands or commandments God gave to Israel belong to the Church. "

Can you tell us which ones do?

And you do make a destination between the Church and Isreal correct?

Also please tell us what those distinctions are. Can you possibly do that without resorting to commentaries for your answer.

Are you IN SEASON or out of SEASON here? If you resort to commentaries, you are out of season, but you still should be able to give an answer without resorting to commentaries.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/13


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//SOoirs anyone else, who breaks and of the commandments of God, and teach other to do the same.

Not ALL commands or commandments that God gave to Israel in the OT pertain to the church. For instance, He did not required physical circumcision, nor did He require the Sabbath, obedience to the Levitical dietary laws.

Apparently the problem really lies with the Adventist view that the New Covenant is but a rehash of the Old - an idea that really reflects stupidity in view of the fact that there are over 600 commands in the OT alone. And who may say which ones were written onto believers hearts? The Adventist pope?
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


Does this mean that even in heaven there is no equality but a ladder of worthiness? And that some commandments are more important?
---Geraldine on 4/14/13

There is an individual who goes about breaking Gods laws, and asking people to do the same. 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

He is the greates lowlife we have ever known.

SOois anyone else, who breaks any of the commandments of God, and teach other to do the same.

those in the kingdom of heaven, will call that person a lowlife

1 Timothy 5:15 some are already turned aside after Satan.
and teaching publicly, that we are not under obligation to keep all the commandments of God
---francis on 4/21/13


Jeremiah 31:33 I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts,
Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:

-e.lee7537 it is really up to you to show that between Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 one commandment has been dropped from the law.
You just do not know God.
Let me introduce you to God: ---francis on 4/20/13

Francis finally posted the verses. These verses were written to the same people the covenant was written too.
As far as introducing anyone to GOD....that is Christ's door to open. John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
---Trav on 4/21/13


Geraldine,
The Lord is speaking of the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth. We are now living in the Kingdom of Heaven Age, also known as the latter days.

Let me prove it to you that this is the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven age:

Mt12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Well, we know that Christ did that at that time.

Mt5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Is" is present tense. Right now.

Lu16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
"presseth" present tense.
---trey on 4/21/13


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Francis //it is really up to you to show that between Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 one commandment has been dropped from the law.

Not true since you are the one that is at odds with what the saints of His church have taught for centuries.

You really need to study Galatians 4 where it speaks of the 2 covenants. Those under the Old Sinai Covenant bear children of slavery.

//At one time God considered it a sin not to keep the Sabbath, but not any more..

At one time, God considered those who did not submit to circumcision not of His covenant.

If you know God, it is obvious you really do not know His word. And that is the main difference between us.
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


//Not buying any of that. They are both as damaging, hurtful, serving the same purpose (debase) and more so in a public fashion.
Our Lord was mocked.

One of the most damaging things is often the truth especially toward those who pitch the Sabbath and promote selected OT laws.

Yes, the Lord is being mocked by those who condemn those that believe in Christ alone, by faith alone, and by grace alone. They believe they in their denomination can merit eternal life by obedience to selected OT laws not found in the New Covenant.
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


Jeremiah 31:33 I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts,

Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:

-e.lee7537 it is really up to you to show that between Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 8:10 one commandment has been dropped from the law.

What you are really saying is this: At one time God considered it a sin not to keep the Sabbath, but not any more, and considering Isaiah 66:22 new earth,.. it shall come to pass, from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me,

You just do not know God.
Let me introduce you to God: He is The Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.James 1:17
---francis on 4/20/13


Nana - mocking ones position on an issue is one thing, but denigrating ones character is something else.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13

Yes, and LeeJ, I'm delighted you said that. now all you have to do is practice what you preach. People really can't hear you LeeJ or respect you, because you are totally guilty of everything you point out in others.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


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"Nana - mocking ones position on an issue is one thing, but denigrating ones character is something else."
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13

Not buying any of that. They are both as damaging, hurtful, serving the same purpose (debase) and more so in a public fashion.
Our Lord was mocked.
Jude 1:18 "How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."

Now, I agree with your view of Acts 15 but others read and replace words and simple meanings also. Just mentioning "whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." drives some to re-edit passage on the fly!
---Nana on 4/21/13


Bro. Elee, thanks for your comments. You have to remember one thing here, that those who are under the letter of the Law of works, or not under the Spirit of the law. They cannot help themselves to insult others. Like the Pharisees, they did not even realize that they were doing the desires of the father the devil, but Jesus said they were. They thought by keeping the law they would earn their way into heaven. Most who call others names here come from that group. That is why it does not bother me, when francis calls me names. He cannot help who he is. It is in his nature, he gives proof by what he says.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/13


Nana - mocking ones position on an issue is one thing, but denigrating ones character is something else.

As for Francis, he really has not been able to defend the position as held by the Adventist church that Christians need observe Old Covenant law not found in the New Covenant or for that matter that Christians are not under grace but still under the law.

A point of contention is what the decrees were of the Jerusalem council as to what Gentiles must believe in order to be legit. Adventists deliberately and without warrant read into Acts 15, what is not there.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


"It really serves no useful purpose in trying to denigrate others - to attack somebody's character or reputation."

---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13

True, but it bothers you not when you make mocking comments against francis faith and manner of worship.
It bothers you not when mark and chrissy do the same with those they disagree because you are partial is it?
---Nana on 4/20/13


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//IDIOT!!! Having knowledge of truth, does not prevent us from having Christ in us, they go hand in hand

It really sadden me that Christianet does not have some rules of ethics regarding posts like other forums have.

It really serves no useful purpose in trying to denigrate others - to attack somebody's character or reputation.

---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


francis, knowing the way of righteousness does not make anyone saved.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/13

IDIOT!!! Having knowledge of truth, does not prevent us from having christ in us, they go hand in hand
---francis on 4/18/13
---francis on 4/20/13


francis, knowing the way of righteousness does not make anyone saved. In fact the Pharisees knew the way of righteouness for they, " like you," knew the law, and God reserved His strongest criticism for them. The fundamental distortion of legalism is the belief that one can earn one's way into the kingdom of heaven. The Pharisees believed that due to their status as children of Abraham, and to their scrupulous adherence to the law, they were the children of God. At the core, this was a denial of the gospel.
A corollary article of legalism is the adherence to the letter of the law to the exclusion of the Spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/13


Sin can be more than a transgression of the OT Law.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/13
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

What does it mean to have another god
1: Literal another god: baal, budda etc
2: Worship of objects and desires: These men have set up their idols in their heart,Ezekiel 14:3
3: Obeying someone else contrary to God's word, that includes not trusting or showing faith in god. Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey,

So basically the other things which are rightfully called sin, is having another god, in scripture is expounding on the first commandment in the law
---francis on 4/20/13


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Heb 10:26 is not describing saved believers losing their salvation.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/13

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

I am not sure how fearful looking for of judgment and fiery is the same as saved but hey stick to your post, i will stick to the bible


2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
---francis on 4/19/13


see your repeated error?
---francis on 4/18/13

I stick by my posts.

Heb 10:26 is not describing saved believers losing their salvation.

Sin can be more than a transgression of the OT Law. There are many commandments given to NT believers. I have given many Scriputures to illustrate my point. You and Jerry choose to follow the OT law, that is your choice.

Do you see this verse anywhere in the OT Law? Yet, I see it as a NT commandment.

Phil 2:14 "Do all things without complaining and disputing"
---Mark_Eaton on 4/19/13


Mark E, great answer you gave francis, his knowledge of the truth is not correct. Unbelievers have knowledge of the truth, that does not make them saved. There is millions going to church and have knowledge of the truth and never make a commitment of faith. Why? Because they do not have a change heart. Knowledge without faith is only sin. In fact it brings a greater punishment to individuals. (Hebrews 10:26) has been given by many, to support that believers can lose their salvation. But they forget to read the whole context, for (v.39) states,
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul"
---Mark_V. on 4/19/13


We who are "in Christ" have more than a knowledge of the truth,
---Mark_Eaton on 4/18/13

According to the Bible, sin is the transgression of the Law.
---jerry6593 on 4/11/13

I must disagree with this statement.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/11/13

see your repeated error?

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Cor 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge,

Having knowledge of truth, does not prevent us from having christ in us, they go hand in hand
---francis on 4/18/13


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This verse can only apply to believers, because only beleivers have " the knowledge of the truth," Hebrews 10:26
---francis on 4/18/13

This is where your misunderstanding begins.

We who are "in Christ" have more than a knowledge of the truth, we have the Spirit of Christ living in us. It could be said we have truth living in us.

The Greek also bears this out. My Thayer lexicon describes the word "knowledge" (epignosis) in Heb 10:26 as "precise and correct knowledge" but if a different word was used (epiginosko), it would mean "to become throughly acquainted with" which indicates having experience with the truth not merely knowing it.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/18/13


I agree but this verse does not apply to believers,
---Mark_Eaton on 4/18/13

This verse can only apply to believers, because only beleivers have " the knowledge of the truth," Hebrews 10:26

Further more, the bible is not written to unbelievers.

I do understand what you are saying especially in reference to no condemnation to those in christ. But let us remember that those in christ will repent for every sin
---francis on 4/18/13


If we sin, ( jew or none jew) after having the knowledge of truth, we cannot rely on any sacrifice for sin, we can only come to Jesus. And if we refuse we will face a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries
---francis on 4/17/13

I agree but this verse does not apply to believers, and it seemed you were applying it to believers in opposition to this verse:

Rom 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit"

The key phrase "in Christ Jesus" is how we do not face condemnation.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/18/13


---Mark_Eaton on 4/17/13
Sorry mark I am 100% correct
If we sin, ( jew or none jew) after having the knowledge of truth, we cannot rely on any sacrifice for sin, we can only come to Jesus. And if we refuse we will face a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries

---Mark_V. on 4/17/13
IDIOT read the whole Post, those in Christ are NEVER called sinners but sons and daughters of God, proof of that is that the keep his commandments 1 John 3:10, 1 John 5:2

---christan on 4/17/13
The blog question asks about the "least" of the commandments, so reread my post on 4/15/13 where I talk about killing an intruder in your house, and a thief stealing when he is hungry.
---francis on 4/17/13


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Geraldine, many believe there is a difference between Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is within you. The Kingdom of Heaven refers to the earthly reign , the 1000 years where there will be that reward of reigning as Kings with Christ. No one is reigning as a king right now, as that is a reward for how we live now.

Who were the Apostles who's mother said, "I want my sons to be first in the Kingdom", and what was Jesus reply, and what happened to those sons?
---kathr4453 on 4/18/13


1 Corinthians 4:8-10

8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ, we are weak, but ye are strong, ye are honourable, but we are despised.

Paul gives us a clue into this as well. He was rebuking those who thought they were too good to SUFFER for Christ, believing they were reigning as Kings now.

Read all of 1st Corinthians 4 to get the whole of the comment.
---kathr4453 on 4/17/13


Hebrews 10:26
---francis on 4/17/13

Your understanding of Hebrews 10 is flawed. The context of Hebrews 10 is OT sacrifices of blood verses the blood of Jesus and it was written to Jews still making OT sacrifices.

In essence, Heb 10:26 says if the Jews at that time after learning of the sacrifice of Jesus try to turn back to OT sacrifices and Judaism, there will be no forgiveness of their sins through the sacrifice.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/17/13


Hebrews 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


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francis, you give,

"Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

By faith we are children of God not by any works of the law. You give the passage and do not follow it's teachings. Christan and elee are correct. There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ. You keep condemning and you keep sinning yourself. Forgetting to pull out the log in your eye.
---Mark_V. on 4/17/13


The sooner you realize that you are a sinner and need the Savior,
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments

I received Jesus as my saviour: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in ME, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4
---francis on 4/17/13


francis, your latest post with Hebrews 10:26 contradicts your previous post from 4/15/13 which you said, ""As you can see, there is an out clause for theft when you are hungry, and an out clause for murder / self defense."

Isn't stealing when you're hungry precisely what the writer of Hebrews is admonishing, "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

So, what "out clause for theft/murder" are you talking about? The quote you posted from Hebrews 10:26 accuses you of being a liar and hypocrite!
---christan on 4/17/13


for those in Christ, there is NO CONDEMNATION.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13

your question is already answered in both OT and NT

OT:
Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

NT:
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
---francis on 4/17/13


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francis//That is only in your imagination

---
It is only in YOUR imagination that you are obeying the laws of God.

As others including Haz27 and myself have already pointed out you are guilty of breaking God's holy law and will be judged by it. However, for those in Christ, there is NO CONDEMNATION.

Romans 8:1ESV There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

The sooner you realize that you are a sinner and need the Savior, you can be saved despite your inability to observe the law.

It is unfortunate that you cannot see yourself as God see you, however for those born of God's Spirit, what God sees in us is the righteousness of His son Jesus.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


But you as an Adventist have to believe in what olde Ellen wrote that the Sababth was the most important of all the commandments
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven


James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

That is only in your imagination
---francis on 4/16/13


Francis //
A good example today is Adventists pitching the Sabbath which in reality is really not that important in view of other commandments.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13

Thanks for driving my point home

---
But you as an Adventist have to believe in what olde Ellen wrote that the Sababth was the most important of all the commandments. In that you have to click you heels together, raise you right hand in a salute, and affirm the erroneous view that she was some kind of prophetess of God much on the same level as Roman Catholics do with the Virgin Mary.
And in making that your habit, you also acquire a familiar spirit that can "peep & mutter" like she did. Isaiah 8,19
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


As you can see, there is an out clause for theft when you are hungry, and an out clause for murder / self defense

The debate among the lawyers in that day, was which of the ten commandments was absolute, and seeing that some have out-clause, which is the greatest

In our day, the great ten commandments debate is: do we still have to keep the 7th day Holy as commanded by God or is it one of the least of the commandments?
---francis on 4/15/13

A good example today is Adventists pitching the Sabbath which in reality is really not that important in view of other commandments.
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13

Thanks for driving my point home
---francis on 4/15/13


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"As you can see, there is an out clause for theft when you are hungry, and an out clause for murder / self defense." francis

Stealing is stealing, period. Murder is killing, period. To use Proverbs 6:30 to justify stealing because one is hungry is not "an out clause". The Word of God doesn't teach one to steal just because one is hungry.

Your understanding and advocating of "an out clause" is precisely why Solomon also writes "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord." Proverbs 17:15

For someone who boast daily about the law sure has a perverted sense of what the law is all about.
---christan on 4/15/13


It doesn't say "in heaven", but "in the kingdom of heaven". This can mean now. But we can grow in Jesus so we become more His way. Do not plan on staying the way you are!! (c:

But, yes . . . I would say Jesus has made it clear there are worse and not so bad sins. And He said Sodom and Gomorrah will have it better in the day of judgment, than those people who refused Jesus (Mark 6:11).

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

But we grow in Jesus, plus learn that position, alone, is not the main thing, but how we are in love.
---willie_c: on 4/15/13


"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Romans 3:19,20

This debunks the wicked concept "that even in heaven there is no equality but a ladder of worthiness". To believe in such a teaching is to believe in salvation by works and not grace. That's because the sinner is not rewarded salvation by obeying the law as explicitly taught by Paul.
---christan on 4/15/13


Matthew 5:19 does speak of the importance of some laws over others.

Mt 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

A good example today is Adventists pitching the Sabbath which in reality is really not that important in view of other commandments.

Olde Ellen believed the Sabbath was the most important commandment, but the question asked is what did she really know about the teachings of the Bible. She was too busy copying the works of others, beyond that all she really did was to "peep and mutter" Isaiah 8:19
---e.lee7537 on 4/15/13


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Proverbs 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry,
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

As you can see, there is an out clause for theft when you are hungry, and an out clause for murder / self defense

The debate among the lawyers in that day, was which of the ten commandments was absolute, and seeing that some have out-clause, which is the greatest

In our day, the great ten commandments debate is: do we still have to keep the 7th day Holy as commanded by God or is it one of the least of the commandments?
---francis on 4/15/13


Every commandment of God has equal importance because they all came from God.

In heaven everyone is equal in worthiness because that comes from God's love and Jesus' sacrifice in our behalf.

The "least commandments" are those of the Old Testament that the Jews followed. As good as it got at the time. But God found fault with them.

They were least in the light of the greater commandments which are those of the New Testament of better commandments and better promises.
---jan4378 on 4/15/13


Matthew 5:19
---Geraldine on 4/14/13
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death,
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversarie

What this text says , is that if you break any one of the commandments of God, and teach men to do the same, you will be called the lowest form of life ( LOWLIFE) by those in heaven, BUT if you keep all the commandments of God, and teach men to do so, you will be called great by those in the kingdom of heaven

It does not say that sinners, and those who cause men to sin wlll enter heaven
---francis on 4/14/13


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