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Sabbath Required Today

Are Sabbath observance and the Levitical dietary laws required of Christians today?

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 ---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13
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//show us what God has cleansed, or what God calls clean that we may eat.

I really do not know how much clearer the scripture can be on this issue.

Mark 7:18-19 Are you so dull?" he asked. Dont you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesnt go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body. (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean".)

Much the same is mentioned in Matthew 15:16f

And from the Epistles suggest -

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.

You will never be able to convince Christians that they must adhere to the Levitical food laws.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


Going to the root: Another term for the scriptures is"truth". -the words of truth are the "word of God". The Iranian "Avesta" reveals the term as truth. The ancient "Atrakhasis" was a forerunner of the Bible. When the term "truth" is reversed you get the term "day" . Division of seven days and seven truths. Seventh is Sabath of rest, prayer and repentence--- for sin.Keep it holy.Don'r get stuck on Saturday or Sunday-be one day.
---Joseph_ROY on 4/20/13


2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Ps 51:7 Purify me from my sins, and I will be clean, wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

Php. 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Totally agree with you Kathr4453, as we should always strive to see if we are in the faith and pray that God's Spirit will continue His work in us.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


Yes, I realize your deep deep deep fear of the truth. After all what would you do with yourself and others once you realize the trash doctrines you have been promoting all these years?

When the books are opened, you will be told you had been warned!
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


That also goes for you too LEEJ. I was just thinking the same thing about you. Maybe you should make sure you are in the truth before passing judgement on anyone else. All I see you do here is just that, pass judgement on others, and intruding when your own cult is cornered, denying TRUTH and Christ, and showing loyalty to man. And you think YOU won't one day answer for that. THINK AGAIN!
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


Francis //There are books written using scripture that says Jesus is not God. There are books written using scripture that says Jesus is not the messiah.

True, many of them were written by Jehovahs Witnesses whose founder was once a disciple of Adventists.

//There are books written that says Christianity is a false religion.

And there are books written by those who proclaim to be Christian, but really are not.

//There are books written by atheist using scripture that says there is no God.

One atheist is probably worth as much as one cultist, both have the same destiny/
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13




What God has cleanse is all good to eat.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/13

O.K. idiot, show us what God has cleansed, or what God calls clean that we may eat
---francis on 4/20/13


bro elee, there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ. What God has cleanse is all good to eat. I love steak and chilli verde. No one that I know of can remove the blood from a steak. It's all meat and blood. Only those who are legalist refuse to eat pork, even though God gives us the ok. But they know more then God.
---Mark_V. on 4/20/13


those books by Canright and others,
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13

That is a silly argument:

There are books written using scripture that says Jesus is not God

There are books written using scripture that says Jesus is not the messiah

There are books written that says Christianity is a false religion

There are books written by atheist using scripture that says there is no God

There are many books written that stands in opposition to the word of God which written in stone says: the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: Exodus 20:10

Keep your books, Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7

I will take the BIBLE
---francis on 4/20/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13
Mars hill, Roman courts, prison, streets, a ship, Paul preached to whomever, wherever.

---TheSeg on 4/19/13
The death penalty is a function of the civil government, not the church.
Examples:
Numbers 15:36, Leviticus 24:11
Deuteronomy 19:12,Deuteronomy 21:18-21,

It's a function of government: elders of the city, judge etc

1 Peter 2:14 unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

A few years ago in USA, witches, and adulterers, were put to death, and people who worked on Sunday were punished

If the government choose, they could do that again if it deems those acts to be a crime or evil
---francis on 4/19/13


Francis is correct when he stated the Paul did not limit his preaching to the Jewish Synagogues.

Acts 18:6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.",

I may ask Francis when Paul decided not to go to the Jewish synagogues anymore, when did he preach the gospel to the Gentiles? In their synagogues on the Sabbath?????

I suspect that this is when Christians started to leave the Jewish synagogues and met instead in their homes.

This is some record that Christians were later banded from attending the synagogues.
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13




So preaching does not have to be done on only the Sabbath.
You agree, good!

Christ said:
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And you agree the law has not changed.
Is stoning still part of the law or not.
It is right, stoning is part of the law.

Christ didn't change the law right?
He just said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
So why can't you cast a stone?

I mean you've have said:
You are without sin and you keep the law?

What's the problem?
Stone them.

You have to! the law has not changed.
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/19/13


---TheSeg on 4/19/13
Sorry, I think you missed the original statement. here it is: Paul was always preaching in a Synagogue
---Peter on 4/18/13
My answer is no, paul did not always preah in synagogues, he did it in houses, and by river side, Mars hill and so on

On the stoning issue, I have to give you more time to look that up on your own. I did answer teh same question by someone names willie, so that may help you
---francis on 4/19/13


Mark as a non SDA I spoke in many SDA churches. No minister ever told me I had to observe the Saturday Sabbath to be Christian. I joined them of course while I was with them. It was my experience with SDA's which caused me to set aside Sunday as a special rest day. Their respect for God was shown in their giving over the whole day to Him. As I am sure you know that rarely happens in other denominations. For example do you give the whole of Sunday as a day of rest?

The SDA's have some doctrines with which I do not agree. However that applies to what people from various denominations write here. Haven't you seen how some argue for preAdamic races and other such antiBiblical ideas, and billions of years,.....?
---Warwick on 4/19/13


//ONE book exposed all false religions, THE BIBLE

Very true and those books by Canright and others, truly bring out the Scripture that clearly show Adventism is a false religion.

Let's face it, there are doctrinal beliefs found only in Adventism that are not found in the Bible, have not been taught by other churches, even the ancient ones.

yes, I would encourage others to read Canright and decide for themselves if he is truthful in what he says about Adventism.

Yes, I realize your deep deep deep fear of the truth. After all what would you do with yourself and others once you realize the trash doctrines you have been promoting all these years?

When the books are opened, you will be told you had been warned!
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


Is francis trying to make everyone believe it was only on the Sabbath days?

So francis what day of the week was it when Christ was given the seven loaves and the fishes.
They had been together three days now.

Mat_15:32 Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Just saying it wasnt just on the Sabbath days, but all the time, whenever anyone would listen.
If people only came together on Saturday, tell me francis what would be a good day to go and talk to them.

Stone him
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/19/13


Three of the very best books that exposed Adventism
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13
ONE book exposed all false religions, THE BIBLE

TWO SECTIONS expose all false religion:
Isaiah 8:20 To the LAW and to the TESTIMONY: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

THREE verses expose all false religions
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---francis on 4/19/13


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Trav//He's gets his thrills from the golden embroidery around the hem of his robe....not sharing scripture with someone he looks down on. A legend in his own mind.

---
If I were a doctor I would probably tell you to take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning, do you really have any idea of what you are trying to say?

There are many sickheads in the world of religion and I suspect some get that way because they are too intolerant of the views of others insisting that they alone have a corner on the truth.

Hope that what I say, will help you with whatever your problem is. Perhaps you are again caught up in a contentious mood?
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


Paul was always preaching in a Synagogue
---Peter on 4/18/13
You are wrong for many reason

1: Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made, and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

2: Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

3: With so many christians in the city, why did they not have a sunday meeting? Acts 15:36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.
---francis on 4/19/13


If you believe: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8
"The law was to reign until Christ." (Romans and Galatians)
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13

Well, seen mr preached 600 times puff it to over a thousand now. This supposedly makes him more credible??? He self admits that he was taken in, i.e. preached what he considers false. Not having any authority he craves it more than truth. Puffnstuffy can't discuss Hebrews or Matthew, or any prophet for that matter. Yet you Lee, have no credibility? Ha. Least you have some scripture. He's gets his thrills from the golden embroidery around the hem of his robe....not sharing scripture with someone he looks down on. A legend in his own mind.
---Trav on 4/19/13


Three of the very best books that exposed Adventism for what it really is, are by Reverend D.M. Canright, Pastor Emeritus, Berean Baptist Church, Grand Rapids, MI.

He lived with James and Ellen White and rose to the top of the SDA hierarchy.

"Life of Mrs. E. G. White and Her Claims Refuted"

From a church history perspective -

"The Lord's Day from Neither Catholic nor Pagan- An Answer to SDA on this subject"

From a doctrinal perspective -

"Seventh Day Adventism Denounced"

All are available on the Internet and can be downloaded free or for a very small price.

These books are a must for those who really want to see what Adventists truly teaches.
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


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Warwick, when Scott 1, wrote:

" if Francis wants to obey the OT laws out of worship of God then let Francis do that." he was right, Paul use to do that before Jesus knock him off the horse. francis can be under the law if he desires, but that's not the problem with the francis and Jerry, their problem is they want others to be under the Law, by worshipping on Saturday's only. And that anyone who does not do as they do, they are law breakers, suggesting they don't. That is the reason people answer back. And when I answer back with what Scripture says, they call me a idiot. They are free to worship only Saturday's. But we know enough of the New Testament not to follow their beliefs.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/13


Is god still the creator of heaven and earth today?

If you answered No, then Christ is not for you.

If you answer Yes, then the rest of God depicted by the Sabbath is for you. Hebrews 4.

If you believe that God changes His doctrine then eat what you please.

If you believe what Jesus taught, then you may eat whatever you consider as food. Mt. 15:17f, Mark 7:18f.

If you believe: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

Then you would acknowledge that His unchangeableness relates to His character and attributes, not that He never changes instructions, laws or commands. "The law was to reign until Christ." (Romans and Galatians)
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


Is god still the creator of heaven and earth today?

If your answer is NO, then sabbath is not for you.

If you answer is YES, then sabbath is for you today because: in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11

If you believe that God changes His doctrine then eat what you please

If you believe: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Hebrews 13:8

Then: Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. Hebrews 13:9

that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. 1 Timothy 6:1
---francis on 4/18/13


I say we stone her!
Wow I just got a great idea!
Lets stone both of them, together!

Oh what a bumber!
I forgot I cant stone any one.

But, francis you keep the law right!
I'll give you a great price on some new stones, I just got in.
All colors, shapes and sizes. No reds!
I think it takes away from the effect.

The law says we should stone them to death!
Ive heard you say keep the law.
I say let follow it and stone them!
We cant do part of the law and say we keep the law, right?


Since you cannot take part of a law you must take all of it or none of it
francis on 4/16/13
Stone them!
---TheSeg on 4/18/13


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Francis: You quoted Acts 13:42-44, and then wrote 'With a group of believing jews and proselytes in the same city, one would think that surely they would be gathering on sunday, yet the gentiles had to wait until the next sabbath to hear the word of God.'

What you seem to have possibly DELIBERATELY failed to inform everyone, is that throughout Acts 13, Paul was always preaching in a Synagogue

THAT is why it was always on the Sabbath (see acts 13:14)
---Peter on 4/18/13


e.lee, you jump to conclusions and misrepresentations-deceit!

I have spoken c1000 times in churches (in many countries) Anglican, C & MA, RC, Baptist, AOG, Presbyterian, Uniting Church, Coptic Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, CCC, COC etc! And only c40 times in SDA. Birds of a feather indeed.

I have found there is no denomination (or nonDenominational church) which is perfect, or anywhere near it. However I have met Christians in all of these churches who hold strongly to the Biblical gospel. The difference between you and me, I surmise, is that I make up my mind via personal experience, not prejudice.
---Warwick on 4/18/13


For those of you new to ChristiaNet e.lee is, I believe just another iteration of Lee who bobs up here from time to time using different names. That is deceitful, but normal for Lee. You may have noticed how he misrepresented what Scott1 wrote but will not admit the truth. He is not to be taken seriously.
---Warwick on 4/18/13


Warwick//
Interestingly the lunches provided in other churches were often boring and unhealthy.

---
I suppose they did not give you any wine to drink? And that is probably the reason you really are not a Seventh Day Adventist today.

Sorry to disagree with you but our salvation and walk is in Christ, not in some denomination as you want to believe.

And all fall short of the glory of God no matter how hard they try and that does includes you.

You spoke in some 40 SDA churches, "Birds of a feather flock together".
---e.l7537 on 4/18/13


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--e.lee7537 on 4/18/13

No e.lee7537 it is the BIBLE that exposes your unscriptural doctines


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, ..from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD
Revelation 21:23.. and the Lamb is the light thereof.

I know that in the new heavens we will have BOTH sabbath and Jesus. SO I know that rest in Jesus is not the same as keeping the 7th day Holy

So i know that the sabbath is not doen away with

the elect cannot be deceived
---francis on 4/18/13


---micha9344 on 4/18/13
Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken WE WILL DO.

THE OLD COVENANT MADE WITH THE FATHERS based on israel ability TO OBEY

Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you,

Hebrews 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

NEW COVENANT BASED ON BETTER PROMISES GOD WILL....
Same law

OLD the people promised to obey
NEW God promises that we will obey
SAME LAWS IN BOTH

Hebrews 8:6 a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
---francis on 4/18/13


Francis - what "Sabbath in Christ" by Ratzlaff really does is EXPOSE the unscriptural doctrines as held by the Seventh Day Adventist Church and it does just that using in context, the pertinent scripture.

As a matter of FACT, the more Adventists that would take the time to read it with an open mind, would soon begin looking for a more biblical oriented church, not to mention preventing the nave and ignorant from falling into Adventism. Literally thousands have already been delivered.

Sorry but Isaiah 66 does not promote Sabbath keeping for this age or the age to come as we can clearly see from the context that it has to involve the old Aaronic priesthood - a priesthood that pointed forward to Christ, not backwards.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


//But where can you find Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, in the NT?

---
Already answered that question, but you did not read my post. Walk by God's Spirit and you will not need a rule book.

If you really want to know where in the New Testament you will find all the Decalogue commandments except the Sabbath strongly suggest you acquire "Sabbath in Christ" by Dale Ratzlaff. His book has opened the eyes of many that were buried in the pits of Adventism.

Of course, there are a plenty of other books on the market that exposes Adventism, suggest you look for yourself unless you are afraid of the truth.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


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---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13
First fo all " sabbath in christ" is not even in the bible. Any well versed bible student will at one glance see that this is a simple attempt to deceive since Isaiah 66 assurses us that we will have BOTh the sabbatha nd Christ in heaven

But where can you find Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, in the NT?
---francis on 4/18/13


Isa 56:4 ... and take hold of my covenant,
Isa 56:6 ... and taketh hold of my covenant,
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
---micha9344 on 4/18/13


e.lee, you still do not own up to your blatant misrepresentation of what Scott1 wrote. Dishonesty.

I am not SDA but have preached in c40 SDA churches, often staying in their homes. I did not see the Sabbath as a burden to them, but a blessing. Likewise I did not find them rigid about working on the Sabbath, as the pastors obviously do work. As do those who prepare the church and those who prepare and bring out the tasty healthy lunch. God is the centre of their day.

Conversely in other denominations I have seen people attend church then rush back to do normal week day things. Part of their day was centered upon God. Interestingly the lunches provided in other churches were often boring and unhealthy.
---Warwick on 4/18/13


We need to answer the blog question "Are Sabbath observance and the Levitical dietary laws required of Christians today?",

And in doing that one can only quote from the New Testament as the Old Covenant became obsolete (Hebrews 8:13), and the church is under the New Covenant, not the Old.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


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---micha9344 on 4/18/13
Isaiah 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it, that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant,
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,
---francis on 4/18/13


1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

Mt. 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Deut. 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Reference on where in the NT, you will find all of the Decalogue commandments except the Sabbath.
Sabbath in Christ, by Dale Ratzlaff - a very well written book that exposes Adventism.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


/Willie who made carrying his bed an act of work. The pharisees did that, that is what Jesus was against. The human laws created around God's law. The command was to do no work which for most was harvesting and planting crops./-Scott1 on 4/18/13
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
Exo 16:29 abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
Jer 17:21-22 Thus saith the LORD, Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring [it] in by the gates of Jerusalem, Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
---micha9344 on 4/18/13


However, I do not see anything in the New Testament that commands the observance of any day as holy.

Anything of importance for our walk with Christ is depicted in the New Covenant - as the Scripture clearly states that the old covenant is OBSOLETE.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

So there can really be no other conclusion made that those who try to impose some OT law onto the Church are modern day Judaizers or simply heretics.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


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//Do you think that it is important that all commandments should be repeated?

What I believe the Bible teaches one should walk in that ministry of the Spirit not in that ministry of death & condemnation craved on letters of stone (2 Cor. 3:7,9.

The Pharisees of Jesus' day tried to make the Bible into some kind of rule book, and then used that rule book to judge others.

Remember that the chief enemies of Jesus were the Sabbath keeping and law promoting religious establishment. Unfortunately, we can easily see their counterpart even today.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and [his] doctrine be not blasphemed.
Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Any shred of evidence that Christians are commanded to follow the Jewish Sabbath observance as a sign of the God who brought them out of Egypt?
---micha9344 on 4/18/13


//John chapter five > Jesus told that healed man to pick up and carry his bed, which was doing work on the Sabbath.//

Willie who made carrying his bed an act of work. The pharisees did that, that is what Jesus was against. The human laws created around God's law. The command was to do no work which for most was harvesting and planting crops.
---Scott1 on 4/18/13


However, I do not see anything in the New Testament that commands the observance of any day.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13
e.lee7537 do you see anything in the NT that says we are not to take the nameof the lord in vain? If so i would liek to see what book chapter and verse.

If you cannot find it, do you think christians can take the name of God in vain?

Do you think that it is important that all commandments should be repeated?
---francis on 4/18/13


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willie_c: on 4/18/13
There is no death penalty in the ten commandment. Death penalty comes in the civil government laws.

lets examine two:
Leviticus 24:11 the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the LORD... And they brought him unto Moses

Numbers 15:36 the congregation brought him without the camp, as the LORD commanded Moses. and stoned him

1 Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers,

So capital pumishment is a government, and not a church function, or priest.

A few years ago in America, witches were being put to death, and individauls were punished for working on sunday, and the government can legislate that again ( see rev 4:20)
---francis on 4/18/13


They are not required for those who are in Christ. They are required for those under the Law. Breaking those laws keeps them condemned because they break one, they have broken them all.
---Mark_V. on 4/18/13


---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13
Your lie that the only reason Christians kept the Sabbath was because the church started around synagogues is false.

Christians keep the Sabbath because they Love God.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments

Now see these:
Acts 2:46 and breaking bread from house to house,

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made,

And your lie is even more exposed
1 Cor 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

the "Lord's supper" is NOT something that would be done in a synagogue,

So your lie is exposed of course again by scripture
---francis on 4/17/13


Included in observing the Sabbath is the death penalty for working on the Sabbath.

"'Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.'" (Exodus 35:2)

I do not know anyone who observes this. Is anyone trying to get a death penalty law passed, for working on Saturday?

John chapter five > Jesus told that healed man to pick up and carry his bed, which was doing work on the Sabbath. Then > "the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God." (in John 5:18)
---willie_c: on 4/18/13


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Warwick// Jesus said the Sabbath was given to man as a day of rest.
---
Totally agree with the principal that it is beneficial to have one day out of 7 for rest and relaxation. But I thank God that there is not a Pharisical government in power that mandates how our day of rest is to be observed.

However, I do not see anything in the New Testament that commands the observance of any day. And that has been the point I keep making with Adventists who seem to want to merge selective laws from the OT with that of the New - mixing works with grace and demand such of others.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


The river that goes between two mountains cant just change its direction.
Until or unless the mountains are removed first or the valley is filled.

Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth,

And all flesh shall see the salvation of God!

Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Indeed who hath warned you?
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Freely ye have received, freely give.
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/17/13


Mark 7:18-20 nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Acts 11, Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.

Rom 14:5-7 One considers one day more sacred than another, another considers every day alike. Each should be convinced in own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

Matthew 12:5 havent you read the priests desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent?

John 5:17
My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.

Heb 4:9 There remains a Sabbath-rest, any who enters Gods rest also rests.

Gal 4:9-11
You are observing special days! I fear for you.
---Bug on 4/17/13


lee, the first point you evade is that you misrepresented what Scott1 wrote. Not a good look for a Christian.

Secondly as Jesus said the Sabbath was given to man as a day of rest. As Creator He should know, better than anyone, that we do need to withdraw from life's struggles, having a day of God centered rest. I may be wrong but I do not think it has to be Saturday. However I support SDA's in their conviction that they should have a day of rest, which is Biblical, and that it is Saturday. Sunday suits me fine. If you choose to work 7 days a week that is your choice, but I believe, it is not Biblical, and physically and psychologically a bad lifestyle.
---Warwick on 4/17/13


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Warwick//This is true and to paraphrase you the Bible does not expressly forbid adhering to the Saturday Sabbath.

yes, I stated that because Jewish Christians continued in the Old Covenant laws, however, there was NOTHING in the Bible that commanded Gentile converts to observe the Sabbath. Why cannot you or they acknowledge that? All Francis can point to is the fact the Apostles first presented the gospel to the Jews in the synagogues but they were not well received.

Acts 18:6 And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.

If you are going to be contentious, I will not debate these issues with you.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


lee, you have misused what Scott1 wrote. He said Francis is welcome to hold to the Saturday Sabbath if he wishes. This is true and to paraphrase you 'the Bible does not expressly forbid adhering to the Saturday Sabbath.'

Scott1 referred to Colossians 2:16 which says we should not accept the negative judgement of others regarding a number of things, including the Sabbath. This speaks to you as you are judging Francis! He also referred to Titus 3:9 which says we should avoid pointless arguments. You arrogantly accuse Francis of being unteachable while you show this trait yourself, see Matthew 7:3

---Warwick on 4/17/13


Scott1 ---Yes, I can only agree with you as such a debate is futile with one that is unteachable and beyond the grasp of the truth as he no valid arguments either from Scripture or church history.

I leave him in his ignorance but we can thank God, that most converts to his denomination simply leave after a few months or years, howbeit, many are lost forever to His church. It is unlikely that he will be able to convince anyone on this forum of his position.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


Lee, if Francis wants to obey the OT laws out of worship of God then let Francis do that. Look up Titus 3:9 and Colossians 2:16. Just has you are free to do, Francis is free to do.
---Scott1 on 4/17/13


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francis
When a river cut thru two mountains will it just change its direction?


Yes, I can see we are wasting our time trying to convince him from either Scripture or history. Better to leave him in his ignorance.
e.lee7537

Do you really believe you are wasting time?
What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Also remember!
It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thy brother
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/17/13


Marck_Eaton - Thank you. I believe you are right in that Francis is really unteachable, the truth is far beyond his grasp.

Notice today that he keeps quoting Acts in support of the Sabbath, but he willfully refuses to acknowledge the fact that the early church grew up around the Jewish synagogues but that lasted just a few years.

Yes, I can see we are wasting our time trying to convince him from either Scripture or history. Better to leave him in his ignorance.
---e.lee7537 on 4/17/13


So you have better look out Francis because if the law is your judge you WILL BE CONDEMNED as you do fail in some respects.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13

Lee,

I would suggest to you that you investigate verses like these:

Prov 18:2 "A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing his own heart"

Prov 20:3 "It is honorable for a man to stop striving, Since any fool can start a quarrel"

Prov 26:4 "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him"

Prov 29:9 "If a wise man contends with a foolish man, Whether the fool rages or laughs, there is no peace"
---Marck_Eaton on 4/17/13


Acts 13:42 the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 13:43 MANY of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul...

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

There were four groups that day
1: Non believing Jews
2: believing Jews
3: Believing proselytes
4: Gentiles

With a group of believing jews and proselytes in the same city, one would think that surely they would be gathering on sunday, yet the gentiles had to wait until the next sabbath to hear the word of God.

If there was any biblical truth to this sunday folishness, those eager gentiles would meet NEXT DAY and not next sabbath day
---francis on 4/17/13


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As Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." I believe He means He made it as a blessing for mankind, a day of rest for all, including servants,(who may have been forced to work every day otherwise) aliens and animals. As I see it, it is a restorative thing and something I practice, by choice. My SDA friends disagree but I have my day of rest on Sunday. In our frantic stressed western life styles I see it as more and more a need for us, just as God commanded it be. I have spent Sabbaths in numerous SDA homes and have seen the tranquillity of them. Conversely Sunday for many other Christians is a visit to church then off back into the hurly burly of life. Not a healthy lifestyle.
---Warwick on 4/17/13


the righteousness...will not be judge by the law.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13
Everyone will be judged by the law:

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,

James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

the question will be, have you asked for forgiveness for your sins, or do you defy God and say that your acts are not sin.

Isaiah 66:16 the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 4/17/13


Normally, I ignore posts from members of churches that approve of pre-natal infanticide, but this requires comment.--Cluny on 4/16/13

You make me laugh. Thanks
---Nikki on 4/17/13


Acts 15:20 abstain from things strangled ( dietary law of Deut 14:21), and from blood ( dietary law from Levi 17:12)

Those who read the whole bible can see that the apostles are teaching the same dietary laws as in Deuteronomy 14:21 and Leviticus 17:12)

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day

The only good it can do to a christian, if the word of God is read every sabbath, is if he in present every sabbath. These verses teach us that both the dietary law, and the sabbath was carried forward into the new covenant

If the apostles meant for the gentiles to hear the word of God every sunday, they would have said every first day
---francis on 4/17/13


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Isaiah 66:15 behold, the LORD will come with fire,..WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT..NOT FOR JEWS ONLY... the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, ... it shall come to pass, that... FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

both parts of this question answered in ONE CHAPTER

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar,
---francis on 4/16/13


Normally, I ignore posts from members of churches that approve of pre-natal infanticide, but this requires comment.

francis has insisted previously that any OT laws NOT in the Decalogue were not given by God Himself, quoting the verse that says, "and He spoke no more."

Since these quotes about dietary laws are NOT in the Ten Commandments, it follows from francis's own logic, that God did not say them and hence they are not binding.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/16/13


//
since you cannot take part of a law you must take all of it or none of it

---
Yes, all 600+ laws even those given only to the nation of Israel.

And if you fail in any ONE law you will be held accountable for ALL of them.
James 2:10.

So you have better look out Francis because if the law is your judge you WILL BE CONDEMNED as you do fail in some respects.

Fortunately the righteousness of the Christian is that of Christ and we will not be judge by the law.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


"I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. ...The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.'The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since.... How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?Saturday is my day of rest..." (D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York, pp. 46, 47, 48)
---francis on 4/16/13


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DIETARY LAW - Leviticus 11 surmised You shall not eat camels, rock badgers, rabbits, pigs, oysters, fish without scales, vultures, falcons, nighthawks, owls, storks, herons, hoopes, bat, etc.

Jesus: Are you yet without understanding that what goes into the stomach does not define one but what comes out of the heart? "(Thus he declared all foods clean.)" Mark 7:19

Such foods were NOT forbidden to Gentile believers.

1Co 8:8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.


So you really have a choose, believe Jesus or those that have little understanding of the Bible.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


since you cannot take part of a law you must take all of it or none of it.
francis on 4/16/13

Then, I say we stone him!
Since you cannot take part of a law you must take all of it or none of it.
Or isn't stoning in the law anymore?
Has the law change? No, right! So let's stone him.

Wait a minute, Christ said something. What was that?
Oh yea! Let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
Wow e.lee7537 you're lucky!

Only someone without sin can stone you.
That leaves me out, but you better watch out for people like francis!
They have no sins & keeps the law!
Man a Saint, just ask him. Seriously, ask him.
Right francis?
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/16/13


Acts 15:20 abstain.. from things strangled, and from blood( DIETARY LAW in Leviticus 17:12.)

THINGS STRANGLED
Deuteronomy 14:21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it, or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God.

DIETARY LAW
In times past, a strangled animal could be given to a gentile, he would then have to drain the blood from it before he ate it. God's people could not eat that meat. Now that Gentiles were part of the people of God, they had to abide by the same dietary laws as did all of God's people

since you cannot take part of a law you must take all of it or none of it
---francis on 4/16/13


Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with ALL FLESH ( NOT JEWS - ALL FLESH): and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.


Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
---francis on 4/16/13


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Are the Levitical dietary laws required of Christians today?
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13
This passage speaks about a time years AFTER the new covenant is given, it speaks about the second comming

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 4/16/13


No! We should obey the 10commandments of course, but we are not Jewish. the levitical law was for Judaism only, not gentiles.
---womandisciple on 4/16/13


As for the Levitical food laws-

Mark 7:18-19 And he said to them, Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

As for the OT Sabbath, the sign of the Old Sinai covenant (Ex.13:31) -

Acts 1518-20 Therefore my judgment is we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

the food laws and the Sabbath were designed to keep the Jewish race separate from other races.
---e.lee7537 on 4/16/13


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