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Changing Church Doctrine

Do you believe doctrine changes when new pastors are voted in a Baptist church?

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 ---shira4368 on 4/18/13
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//The RCC doesn't believe in Divorce. 2382 CCC......Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.

Are you saying Jesus was wrong when He declared divorce was permitted in the case of sexual immortality of one of the partners?---e.lee7537

No bastards with invalid marriages

Please note: .... in front of my word 'between' and after 2382 CCC

2382 CCC .... between:
Means I didn't quote it completely. I was only giving Mark V an example to back up all his odd claims of the CCC.

We are the only ones who follow Jesus. The RCC doesn't allow divorce expect for invalid reason. Adultery is one specifically made by Jesus.
---Nikki on 4/23/13


Cluny//Though I will admit that in the last century, the EP has begun exhibiting papal type pretensions.

it is likely that the EP has very little to offer anyone that is Christian. It is much the same with Roman Catholics in listening to the Pope. I have often met Catholics who tell me that there the law of the Church and there is the Law of God, we strive to obey that latter more so than the former.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Cluny does support his denomination first, Nikki RCC, Nana, RCC teachings, Jerry and you SDA's,---Mark_V. on 4/22/13

RCC and the Orthodox Churches are not denomination. They are Churches because we have the Priesthood.
You need a Priest (through Apostolic succession) to be a Church.
---Nikki on 4/23/13


e.lee, contrary to what you think, Constantinople had jurisdiction ONLY in the territory of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and NOT throughout the entire Orthodox Church.

Though I will admit that in the last century, the EP has begun exhibiting papal type pretensions. No one pays any attention to them but himself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/23/13


Francis//you are either orthodox or apostate! No middle ground.

Having traveled much because of my employment, I attended several Baptist churches. Some were very good others not so good. Much depended upon the pastor, his training and viewpoints.

At my brothers funeral they had a SDA pastor who was very good but from what I have observed good SDA pastors are few and far between. Some actually know and preach the Gospel ignoring for personal reasons as retirement pensions, the unique doctrines of Adventism. They believe salvation is in Jesus, not in obedience to selective OT laws.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13




//your Church was the very first denomination.

Not true at all, since Roman Catholicism as a denomination came into being at the Council of Trent, where they defined their doctrinal beliefs.

Prior to Trent, the churches were controlled by Rome, Constantinople and in some of the smaller churches under the control of schismatic leadership such as the Nestorian church.

Contrary to what some want to believe, the ancient churches were much different than those of today.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Probably the reason David disagrees is because Jehovah Witnesses have salvation by good works, so do the Mormons, Islam, Buddhaism, RCC, and now entering many so call Christian denominations, like SDA's and a few others.-Mark_V. on 4/22/13

You left out my three witnesses, Jesus Christ (Matthew 7:21), Paul(Romans 2:6-7) and John (1 John 2:17).
Three witnesses to clearly confirm what I say is the truth, who are your withnesses?
Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, and John Calvin?
---David on 4/23/13


Nikki, your Church was the very first denomination. It was the first time that many churches united together to form one Universal Church with another ruler on the Throne. Independent churches were to be separate one from another. One never to rule the other. After the RCC formed, the Eastern Orthodox started another denomination when they split from the RCC.
A lot of people online are very proud of their denomination and defend their denominations over the Word of God, to even suggest their leaders words oversee the Word of God. Replacing the Word of God with the words of sinful man. Let the Truth be told.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/13


Kathr, it's all good here. I was really pointing my question for Francis but I can see now there is more than one "Francis". Actually I've learned more about who is on the blogs and what they represent. I don't need my question answered because I know what the answer is.
---shira4368 on 4/22/13


Markv, please stop ruining Shira's blog here. She was asking about the BAPTIST CHURCH, and here you went and ruined it by bringing up RCC and SDA's attacking Francis again and again.

Please stick to the subject , and stop spreading your hate here and all over these blogs.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/13




notice how Cluny defends his denomination. In-fact he will claim that his church predates all denomination and is the original and only true church on earth.

To Cluny, you are either orthodox or apostate! No middle ground

But not so with baptist
They accept different doctrine as being the word of God, even when that doctrine contradicts their own doctrine
---francis on 4/22/13


\\well, everyone should go to a church that preaches the biblical truths. that is exactly how I chose my church. not all faiths preach the biblical truth.\\

That's why I'm Orthodox.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/22/13


Nikki //The RCC doesn't believe in Divorce.
2382 CCC......Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.
---
Are you saying Jesus was wrong when He declared divorce was permitted in the case of sexual immortality of one of the partners?

Matthew 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.

I guess Jesus could never have become a good Roman Catholic.

The way the Roman Church handles this issue is by declaring a marriage to be invalid despite the fact that there may be children involved, thus declaring children bastards.






---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


\\Cluny does support his denomination first, Nikki RCC, Nana, RCC teachings, Jerry and you SDA's, many here Pentecostal at the expense of the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13\\

That's exactly what you do, Mark_V. You support your worldly denominational church's teaching at the expense of the Word of God.

The Orthodox Church, on the other hand, WROTE the Word of God, so you are misusing an Orthodox book.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/22/13


What we should be careful to look at is how well do they interpret the Bible and how well they can defend their views.

Due to both history and the insurmountable evidence from history,
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13

If you are going to stand with the bible do so, if you are going to stand with history do so

You seem wishy washy to me, what ever supports your view you go with it

The bible does not support you anti sabbath view so you look to history,

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 4/22/13


There was a time in history where no one had freedom at the RCC. All members were in bondage to a church.--Mark_V.

We are not a denomination. Your place of worship is a denomination. We are a CHURCH. The Orthodox is a CHURCH.

If there was no freedom in he RCC how did so many leave? Remember Martin Luther a Catholic Priest?
No Swiss Guard was at their houses. The Guards are there to protect the Pope. They are not paying attention to anyone who speaks out in the Church or outside the Church.

I think you are mad because the RCC isn't willing to engage in a doctrine battle with you all.
We know we are following Jesus and His commands as HE TOLD US, and we are going FORWARD.
Come home and fight the GOOD FIGHT with us.
---Nikki on 4/22/13


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well, everyone should go to a church that preaches the biblical truths. that is exactly how I chose my church. not all faiths preach the biblical truth. I am what I am because of doctrine of my church. anyone here can believe what they please but all who cut down my faith had better look at who preaches the truth. look in the mirror and you should see a red face.
---shira4368 on 4/22/13


francis, the David that answered here a few posts ago is not David Jeremiah. David Jeremiah does not believe in salvation by good works of the law. Or what is called free will. I have heard David Jeremiah, he might not have every detail correct, but he does not support the view of the David that just answered. We are to defend the Word of God for only God's Word is Authoritive. We are not called in the Bible to support a denomination, in fact there should have never been any denominations. Cluny does support his denomination first, Nikki RCC, Nana, RCC teachings, Jerry and you SDA's, many here Pentecostal at the expense of the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


//Every single denomination should be able to defend their denomination as the ONLY one teaching the word of God.
---
What we should be careful to look at is how well do they interpret the Bible and how well they can defend their views.

Due to both history and the insurmountable evidence from history, I would find Adventism extremely hard to defend. And we can see that the result is far too many left Adventism after a short few years. Many of those have been seminary professors, minsters of churches, and other godly educated people.

About ALL Adventism has to defend themselves is from the ranting and errant visions of an old psychic who suffered a brain injury as a child.
---e.lee7537 on 4/22/13


David is right when he says that, because he is not defending a denomination, but the word of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13

Here is what you do not get
David is a baptist preacher, he shold be able to defend his denomination as the only denomination world wide that teaches the word of God.

Every single denomination should be able to defend thier denomination as the ONLY one teaching the word of God. But david is not able to do this, because he knows that some " baptist" churches are not teaching the truth

Take cluny for example: Cluny will consider all other denominaton but orthodox as false teachers even apostates,
---francis on 4/22/13


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Adetunji, very good points you gave, and very true. Christianity is the only religion which teaches Justification by faith in Christ alone. No amount of good works can earn anyone into heaven. Probably the reason David disagrees is because Jehovah Witnesses have salvation by good works, so do the Mormons, Islam, Buddhaism, RCC, and now entering many so call Christian denominations, like SDA's and a few others. Everyone with their own separate kind of good works, but nevertheless good works.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


David://Sadly though, the reformers were wrong on this issue and the RCC was right.// I beg to disagree with you. If you search a little bit more you will find that Islam, Eckankar and many other religions of the world preaches "salvation through good works". It is only Christianity that preaches salvation through Jesus Christ. Good works definitely will emanate from someone who is alive in Christ, as Christ-living-in-him will bring out the good works.
---Adetunji on 4/22/13


The RCC was teaching salvation by works, and the reformers opposed that view. -Mark_V. on 4/21/13

Sadly though, the reformers were wrong on this issue and the RCC was right.
Can you come up with anyone other than Paul as a witness who supposedly supports this view?
Kinda strange that People say Paul taught this, when (Romans 2:6-7)clearly shows that he didn't.
But that's the way man is, if it doesn't support your view, just ignore those parts of the bible that go against your doctrine.
---David on 4/22/13


Shira, francis is right on his last statment concerning David Jeremiah, when he tells listeners:
"to go to a church where the word of God is taught.".
David is right when he says that, because he is not defending a denomination, but the word of God. There was a time in history where no one had freedom at the RCC. All members were in bondage to a church. No freedom to interpet the Word of God, no freedom to object when something was not false. The SDA's are just like the RCC use to be. There is no freedom, because they defend their denomination, not the Word of God. When they go wrong and they have many times, all members go down the gutter. They are in bondage to a denomination and proud of it.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


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I have friends who are baptist, and I ask them all the time, " when you move to another city or state, which church will you attend?"

They often tell me they do not know, they will have to look for a church that teaches the word of God. Which means that there is a possibility that they may be in a baptist church that does not teach the word of God.

DAVID JEREMIAH, a baptist preacher ends his broadcast by asking his listeners to go to a church where the word of God is taught.

He should just say go to the baptist church of your choice. He also knows that there are " baptist" churches in which the word of God is not taught. Because there is no set doctrine associated with the " baptist church."
---francis on 4/21/13


Shira and everyone else: please read the article called " In essentials unity-way of life literature."
What you will find is a range of what the larger baptist community considers " non-essentials." In one commentary, Baptism is considered as a non-essential doctrine to a baptist.


From In essentials unity-way of life literature:

"Many Independent Baptists are now buying into this heresy.

The Independent Baptist Friends International conference in 2010, hosted by Clarence Sexton of Crown College, was based on this premise, that such things as the Bible text issue, dress, music, Calvinism, modes and candidates of baptism, and separation from the SBC are non-essentials
---francis on 4/21/13


kathr, I know there are many Baptist churches and I challenge someone proving when the Baptist church started. no one has ever been able to know when. the statement of faith has nothing to do with doctrine. I don't know where some of you come up with the junk you put here but it is not the truth. there are Baptist churches I have never known or visited. as far as Baylor, if a Mormon applied for work at any college it is against the law to dismiss him because of his faith. kathr, did you visit the site of dr. joe Arthur? that is how we worship. most churches are places of entertainment and not worship.
---shira4368 on 4/21/13


Giving someone the benefit of the doubt is not an apology. It's graciously not beating someone up who curses you out of their failure to thoroughly read what someone says.

But, here we have AGAIN troublemakers who intrude in someone else's conversation to blow hot air on a fire he wants to keep going. No, this is not Christ like.

This is also someone who is NOT complete IN HIM, out of his own admitting , denying the DEITY of Christ in doing so, OR just reiterating he is not SAVED to begin with. His actions point to the latter.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/13


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Francis, people should do that with any Church they join. Even within the Lutheran, Presb., non or inter, Methodist, etc, there are many different sects within denominations.

I visited a Presb church once where the pastor said, " I'm sick and tired of hearing about the Blood of Jesus this, and the Blood of Jesus that....

Well, that was it for me....

Just another who did not believe WE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/13


If you are baptist of any kind, what you need to do, is ask for the churches doctrine in written form. And pay attention to what it says, and what the pastor actually preaches.
---francis on 4/21/13


I believe Francis has made himself clear here what he is saying. No one can use the SDA LOGO unless they adhear strictly to SDA Doctrine.

This is not so in the various Baptist Churches, who also have one called SEVENTH DAY BAPTISTS.

Baptists can shop around the various Baptist Churches and find whatever doctrine tickles their ears, and still think they are going to heaven BECAUSE they are a BAPTIST.....
THE One and only thing they ALL have in common.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/13


Shira, about that apology, don't even worry about it. Concerning the Baptist group, they are the only Church that did not join the Universal Catholic church when the churches were united into one. For not joining, they were persecuted by the Catholic Church for centuries. All denominations came out from the Roman Catholic Church, are came to be who they are, after the reformation. Some continued to teach some doctrines of the RCC but not all. As you know most of the reformers were Catholic and did not want to leave the RCC, they wanted to reform it to no avail. The RCC was teaching salvation by works, and the reformers opposed that view. Justification by faith in Christ alone was the reformers view, which was opposed by the RCC.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/13


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\\A local congregation CANNOT have their own doctrine....Is God divided?\\
---francis on 4/20/13

We could ask the same about you and Jerry. Both of you are SDA, yet you EACH have your own doctrine because you disagree on the issue of abortion.

What if your entire congregation believes as you do, and Jerry's entire congregation believes as he does?

Are you and your congregation apostates, or is Jerry and his congregation apostates? Or is God divided? Or is it possible that two within the same denomination can have their own doctrine?
---James_L on 4/21/13


Shira and everyone else: please read the article called " on essencials unity-way of life literaturey"
---francis on 4/21/13


//Every single SDA church world wide, has the same exact doctrine.
---
Not always true.

Years ago, I taught a Sunday school class on cults. One pamphlets I had was Amazing Facts (authored by one who is a regular SDA discussion leader). On the front of the pamphlet was a picture of the Devil with his arm around a minister in a church pulpit. Inside the pamphlet it accused non-SDA ministers that failed to preach the Sabbath as instruments of Satan. In essences, they were saying that everyone from Martin Luther, to the Wesleys, to the Grahams were Satans agents.

I still have that pamphlet somewhere and will eventually find it. Such slander is unwarranted and truly shows hatred for other Christians.
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


The Southern Baptist Church is getting more and more like the RCC.

I'm really not sure what rattled Shira's cage. Dr. Lee left the Southern Baptists and started his own Church. His message has not changed, however he is FREE to grow his church without having to answer to anyone. he can teach whatever he wants in Sunday School and not have to use SB Quarterlies. He can preach what he wants without being told what to preach each Sunday.

Shira you are Independent Baptist, then there is Northern Baptist, and umpteen different kinds of Baptists. Some are so legalistic it's not even funny. Some now teach Mormon doctrine within the Baptist church. Baylor University, a Baptist University has MORMON PROFESSORS.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


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---James_L on 4/20/13
A local congregation CANNOT have their own doctrine.

You can differ in administration, but how can two southern baptist congregations each claiming to be southern baptist have different doctrine? Is God divided?


2 Cor 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Se how Paul has charge of all the churches, writes to them, corrects their doctrines, and appoints pastors to appoint elders. That is how the church of God operates, not every congregation for himself
---francis on 4/20/13


I remember years and years ago going to a Baptist Church where ALL that was preached was fire and brimstone, with an alter call afterwards. Funny thing, all in the church were saved, and no new people ever came. Those already saved don't need to hear fire and brimstone over and over, since we were already saved FROM the fire and brimstone.

He was eventually replaced with someone who could take the SAVED past hearing the Gospel 1001 different ways. Did the doctrine CHANGE.? .No, but the DEPTH of our salvation and moving on to sanctification began to change people within the Church.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


\\Baptist have a statement of faith, and that statement outlines the doctrine of the Baptist Church.\\
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13

Yes and No. The Statement of Faith is simply a somewhat generic doctrinal guideline for developing intricate doctrine.

For example, the Statement of Faith says we believe that Jesus will return personally and visibly. Beyond that, there is no doctrine as to Pre-Mil or Post-Mil

Another example:
There are some who believe a "sinner's prayer" is the means to conversion, and then there are those who know the truth about this aberrant heresy and speak against it
---James_L on 4/20/13


Let me use my church the Seventh-Day Adventist Church as an example:

Like all churches people leave the SDA church from time to time for their own reasons

Some people and groups have tried to start churches using the name Seventh-Day Adventist but with one or two different doctrines

When this happens, the SDA steps in and stops them from using the name with different doctrines, because you cannot use the name " Seventh-Day Adventist" or the SDA logo, with variety of doctrines

Every single SDA church world wide, has the same exact doctrine

This is not so in the baptist church, you can use the name " baptist" with pri-mill, post-mill, or even a-mill.
---francis on 4/21/13


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Kathr, if you were not so hardheaded, and with a different purpose, you would know what the passage in ( 2 Peter 1:20) is talking about. It is not saying for us not to interpret Scripture. It is saying that no Scripture is the result of any human being privately. Peter's point is not so much about how to interpret Scripture but rather how Scripture originated, and what it's source was. The false Prophets united and loosed their own idea's. But no part of God's revelation was unveiled or revealed from a human source or out of the prophets unaided understanding (v.21). That is the reason francis gave no explanation, so others could judge for themselves, who don't know better.
---Mark_V. on 4/21/13


Shira, if you go back and re-read my statement you became so rattled over, you'll see I said " independent" as in independent agent, NOT INDEPENDENT BAPTIST.

I can see where you may have thought that's what I was saying. He is now independent from the Southern Baptists.

And JamesL, in the SB Church, at least one I was in, you cannot even join unless you SIGN some statement of Faith. Now do you think these deacons who nominate and bring in pastors for review would bring in someone who does not also adhere to this statement of faith? Can't make a potential member sign something the Pastor doesn't adhere to himself.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/13


Northern Baptists, General Baptist, Southern Baptist, Independent Baptist, the list goes on and on.

NOT ALL SB Church bodies make you sign a statement of faith either. That RULE was made by THAT particular church.

There are GOOD Baptist Churches and BAD Baptist churches, regardless of whether they are Northern, Southern, General, Independent, Free Will, or Calvinist Baptist Churches.

And YES doctrines do change between these many varieties of what is called BAPTIST. The Calvin Baptists have a different doctrine than the FREE WILL Baptist.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/13


lee, just one more thing. independent Baptist do not change doctrine. the difference between southern Baptist and independent Baptist is not doctrine. most southern Baptist have gone contemporary. many have brought in rock bands and they don't use the king james bible. the most profound difference is we are a king james church with old fashion singing and preaching. we are not a modern church and that is basically the difference. there aren't any doctrinal differences. the southern Baptist answer to the southern Baptist convention and independent churches have circle of same churches and they have campmeetings and revivals but they don't answer to a convention of any kind. there are many non denominational churches and they adopt many doctrines.
---shira4368 on 4/21/13


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kathr, you absolutely don't know what you are talking about. I have been in this thing for 65 years. I really do know the doctrine of the independent Baptist church. the statement of faith is saying you have been saved and baptized and that is all. kathr, you act like you know what you are talking about and you don't know nothing. our doctrine is very clear and yes there are church splits but there are church splits from every denomination. you are right we don't answer to some headquarters. our headquarters is Jesus Christ. I sure hate to see some make fools out of themselves thinking they know what they are talking about.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


\\you cannot disagree with baptist doctrine and start you own baptist church, you need to call that church by another name.

The name of any church, should be associated with a fixed doctrine.\\
---francis on 4/20/13


Wrong on both accounts.

One primary tenet of the Southern Baptist Convention is autonomy of the local church.

Though there is a "Baptist Faith and Message", there is no such thing as "Baptist Doctrine". Each congregation is responsible for their own doctrines and governance.
---James_L on 4/20/13


first of all kathr, when a church splits it is so called Baptist. I have seen it happen a couple of times. where do you get they can't use Baptist? the church in Atlanta is not a Baptist church, it is a non denominational church. every church that pops up is non denominational. that way, they can adopt every doctrine sort of like one size fits all. francis, I was involved in starting a church and again you don't know what you are talking about. you are really ignorant about Baptist. you have a hard enough time trying to keep the laws.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


kathr if you live in Atlanta area, go visit harvest tabernacle Baptist church and listen to a real preacher. bro. joe Arthur is a fire and brimstone preacher. you will have an example of what an independent Baptist is all about. frances, it would do you good to hear a fire and brimstone man of God preach the Word.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


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//Why? Because for some reason, he could not do within the Baptist Church what he can now do as an independent.

It has been my observation that most splits are due more to political reasons than over doctrinal differences, moderators versus conservatives, liberals, etc.

However, Francis if he had eyes that could see would see more commonality in the different Baptists denominations than there are differences.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


Francis, rather than make a blanket statement, give us an example of what a changed doctrine would be.

I know Baptist have a statement of faith, and that statement outlines the doctrine of the Baptist Church. So if a pastor decides to leave the Baptist Church he is free to start his own church, but he cannot put BAPTIST on the door. Several here in Atlanta have done that. Dr. Richard Lee, Who use to be Rehobeth Baptist Church, now has his own mega church. Why? Because for some reason, he could not do within the Baptist Church what he can now do as an independent. Has is Doctrine changed? Is he now preaching RCC doctrine, or SDA doctrine. Not last that I heard.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/13


That is absolutely not true. I am a Fundamental baptist Our church never changes doctrine.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13

They do, you just not aware of it, because baptist preachers preach what their members already believe when they come to a new church, because that is what they are paid to do.

If you do not believe me, read the examples I posted on my first post
---francis on 4/20/13


Doctrines are Bible based and don't change with a new pastor. Church laws may be changed, but the method of changing is up to the laws of that church. Just make sure everyone knows the difference. If a new pastor indicates he wants to change a doctrine: don't let him. For example, This new pastor states there aren't three persons in the God Head, that's a FALSE doctrine. If a church law states you should have no less than 5 deacons - that can be changed.
---wivv on 4/20/13


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Kathr: "The Doctrine of Christ NEVER CHANGES, period."


AMEN!!!!!


Most folks want to find some way to make the Bible conform to their own personal preferences, rather than finding out what it teaches and conforming to that.

Take our friend Lee of many names, for example. He boasts that the only law in effect for us is "love thy neighbor", and yet he not only hates his neighbor for running his tractor on Sunday, but hates the neighbor's entire denomination as well. Such love!



---jerry6593 on 4/20/13


I don't believe a new pastor can change core beliefs of a church, like the way unto salvation message.

I believe if a man chooses to follow mens doctrines, and not the clearly wriiten word of God which verifies the Truth, God will keep that man in the darkness and he will not accept the truth. Think about what a false doctrine does, it makes liars out of Jesus Christ and God the Father.

There's an easy way to see if a doctrine is the Truth. To verify the truth, you must have witnesses that it is the Truth.

Many churches found their doctrines on only one writer in the Bible, because there is only one writer to support what they say, when every writer in the New Testament should support their doctrines.
---David on 4/20/13


Francis, you said it right. Baptist cannot change doctrine when. You start a new church. That is the why I. Am a baptist because of their doctrine. One person told me when. A new pastor changes doctrine when they yoke. A. New church. That is absolutely not true. I am a Fundamental baptist Our church never changes doctrine.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


Here is how "churches" are formed
0: An evangilest comes to town preached the gospel and a church starts
1: the church grows in numbers, and at a certain point a group of members are moved to a new building in another area
2: One or more members disagree with the administration fo the church,and start their own
3: one of more members disagree with the ( A) doctrine of the church and start thier own

Here is the problem:
You cannot leave on doctrine, start another doctrine and have the same church name

Example: you cannot disagree with baptist doctrine and start you own baptist church, you need to call that church by another name.

The name of any church, should be associated with a fixed doctrine.
---francis on 4/20/13


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Interesting how francis twisted scripture
---Jed on 4/19/13

I checked every post i placed on this blog, I only quoted ONE scripture:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

I gave NO interpretation, I just posted the scripture, i gave no comments on it.

So tell me how did I twist it?
what did I say to twist it?

Have I not warned you about the paranoia of being a republican?

All I did was post ONE verse, with no comments, and you say I twisted it
---francis on 4/20/13


Interesting how francis twisted scripture (much like Satan) by slightly re-wording it and then cutting off part of it. Funny how he was immediately exposed by e.lee who posted the entire verse with the correct wording and in correct context. Can't stand it when people twist scripture. It's become quite a habit for francis.
---Jed on 4/19/13


I never heard of a Baptist pastor changing doctrines. francis, please tell me how many Baptist churches you have attended.
---shira4368 on 4/19/

I posted several references in my first /original post on this blog
---francis on 4/19/13


Shira, many don't understand that the congregation votes in Baptist minister. So, in order for any doctrinal changes to take place, the congregation itself would have to first change their doctrinal views and beliefs to vote in and hire a pastor reflecting the body's changed views.

I've never seen that happen.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/13


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kathr4453//LeeJ who has a WOMAN pastor...what a hypocrite and just another SHAME name hung on the wall of SHAME!

---
Not true at all as Orthodox Presbyterian denomination does not ordain women as either clergy or even as elders.

They are more so a stickler when it comes to the Bible than any other denomination I have ever belonged to including those that were Baptist.

They do, however, permit women to teach children's Sunday school.

And yes, we can all agree with even the likes of Warwick, that every denomination does have something that may be questionable.
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


//please tell me how many Baptist churches you have attended.

---
Francis is forbidden to have anything to do with any church that has communal worship on Sundays. So it is more likely he never ever has attended a Christian church even one that is a Baptist.

Who know as if he is moved to worship God in a non-Adventist church, he might receive the mark of the Beast and be condemned for eternal damnation if the Lord comes for His church on that same Sunday.
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


I have been to Baptist churches since childhood and belonged to one for a few years. In the Southern Baptist churches in this area the doctrine is consistent no matter who the pastor is. There are many types of Baptist Churches and doctrines do vary among those. There is even one denomination of Baptist who believe in the Gift of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. None of that has to do with who is pastor.
---Darlene_1 on 4/19/13


kathr, my pastor tells his flock no such thing. I started this blog for francis. he says Baptist churches change doctrine as they change pastors. Ive been to many campmeetings and revivals but I can say I have been a member of only 3. some of that time we were moving with military. I never heard of a Baptist pastor changing doctrines. francis, please tell me how many Baptist churches you have attended.
---shira4368 on 4/19/13


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Guess that would eliminate Ellen and Joseph Smith, would it not? Neither were moved by God as has been proven. The former copied the words of others, ....---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


Oh so Markv is Ellen White? I knew she was Lisa, but now she's Ellen White too? A WOMAN!
---kathr4453 on 4/19/13


People may THINK they have the RIGHT to interpret scripture as he pleases, we certainly see Markv's ongoing display of that nonsense as well as continued contention and arguments hurled with personal insults as he twists God's Word to believe he has some supernatural ability to see things no one else can see, as well as NOT SEE THINGS CLEARLY stated in God's Word he calls his "right" to personal interpretation. .

The Doctrine of Christ NEVER CHANGES, period.

And Shira, if your new pastor tells you, you are not complete in Him, well, then MARK that man, and know that man is teaching heresy.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/13


2 Peter 1:20 NLT Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophets own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

Guess that would eliminate Ellen and Joseph Smith, would it not? Neither were moved by God as has been proven. The former copied the words of others, and the latter was a pedophile that believed in polygamy.
---e.lee7537 on 4/19/13


2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
---francis on 4/19/13


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2 Peter 1:19-21

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

False teachers WILL be held accountable and punished.
---kathr4453 on 4/19/13


Shira, every believer does have the right to interpret Scripture for himself. Since the Spirit of God helps believers discern the Word of God. If a person is not allowed to interpret for himself, he becomes a slave to whatever is taught. That does not mean that when a new pastor is voted in he will change the doctrines. They are mostly hired to teach what the Church has been teaching prior to their arrival. The only main topic that differs between all denominations is the topic of free will oppose by those who teach the election of God. Everything else that is change is towards that believe. While some small disagreements exist, between all of them, that is the most important doctrine of them all.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/13


I think the original question needs to be qualified a little because there are many, many Baptist denominations that are different.

Some are very open as to individual interpretation, and some are very closed to the idea.

And as Cluny pointed out -
some say every believer has the right to interpret for himself, yet their practice says anything but.

Also, if doctrine changes, does that mean the people don't study for themselves? They only believe what the pastor teaches? Probably
---James_L on 4/18/13


In reality there is only two things that unite all the Churches:

1) The Nicene Creed (the older of the two things)

2) The complete Bible

In a denomination like the Baptists, where anything can vary easily, I can expect variation especially in how the Gospel is preached

Unlike the three Apostolic Churches (Orthodox, Catholic and Anglican) there is no set of 'doctrinal bases' to refer a pastor if the congregation feels he is violating the appropriate doctrine
---Peter9556 on 4/18/13


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//Every baptist pastor has a different personal interpretation.

I have found that same to be true of non-denominational Bible Churches. However, if we look at the essentials of the Christian faith, there is much in common.

Anybody that has studied the Bible would soon realize from the commentaries that there are different interpretations of the Bible each having their strengths and weaknesses.

I am glad that I do not belong to one to those churches that insists that I adhere to their own unique interpretation of Scripture. They are usually the dictatorial type of Churches that permit little freedom in anything.
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


Every baptist pastor has a different personal interpretation. That is whay baptist are congregationalalist. the teaching vary from congregation to congregation and from pastor to pastor

Also read Weighed and Wanting Dwight L. Moody chapter on the 4th commandment

Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 189

Adult Quarterly, Southern Baptist Convention series, Aug. 15, 1937.

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual (still in print), in a paper read before New York ministers' conference held Nov. 13, 1893.

Baptist pastors mostly teach what the congregation wants to hear, and that varies
---francis on 4/18/13


Why are you asking this question, shira?

Do you have a new pastor?

Baptists claim that every believer has the right to interpret scripture for himself. But woe betide the Baptist whose interpretation differs from those around him.

FWIW, I read an article by one Baptist pastor, the son of another. Father was pre-mill dispensationalist. Son was rather the opposite.

And one Baptist pastor admitted privately to an Orthodox priest that while he did NOT believe in pre-mill dispensationalism, he had to preach it from the pulpit, because his people wanted to hear it. He said he'd be fired if he didn't

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/18/13


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