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Can Sin Go To Heaven

Roman Catholics believe sin is removed in Purgatory before entrance into heaven. Do Protestants or Evangelicals have any teaching about our sin being removed? Or is it taught that sin can indeed enter heaven because it's covered?

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 ---James_L on 4/18/13
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Kathr, you say,
"Need anyone say anything more here?"
There is no need for you to say anything anymore. You have highjacked another blog with your accusations. Another example you are not complete and very far from it. You are still inslaved to sin. You don't understand that all without the Spirit of God are complete, yes, completely lost and nothing but a miracle from God can change them or you, no amount of free will because you and they do not realize you are in bondage to sin. Bro. Elee is correct, you still have that mental illness. Don't worry, it's not your fault, God ordained you to be that way.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/13


Haz, the whole New Testament speaks to believers. Giving them warnings not to sin, over and over. Do you want to know why? because they still sin. If they were perfect at salvation, there would be no need for warnings.
Second, remember this great passage?
"But if you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons" (Heb. 12:7,8). If you think you are complete and without sin, you are illegitimate and not a son of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/13


1 Corin 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

I read every verse in scripture using the word, sanctify, sanctification, and no where is it used as progressive.

Genesis...God Sanctified the 7th day.

When we enter "His Rest" also another way of saying saved, or His finished works on the cross, just like he said in Genesis, the works of creation were finished, we are in Him a perfect 7, Sanctified.

If you read all the verses in scripture 7 is that of sanctification, HOLY, stating this over and over. No one is a 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 in Christ gradually working toward a 7.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/13


Please correct me if I misunderstand you,
---Haz27 on 4/24/13
What you missunderstand is the gospel: the good news that Jesus came to save us from our sin.

You soom to take sin for granted, that sem how you were elecyed by God to be saved and that you can live as you plese and still be saved

Many of us however acknowledge that Christ came to save us from our sin, and that the wages of sin is death, which jesus paid for us, THUS WE DESIRE NOLONGER TO LIVE IN SIN, we accept righteousness by faith and accept the spirit of God in us to "be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, Ephesians 3:16" that we shoudl not disopbey the law of God, but be obedient
---francis on 4/25/13


e.lee, you speak of a gradual sanctification. This is error

Consider Heb 10:10.
"we HAVE BEEN sanctified THROUGH the OFFERING of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all"

There is no process of gradual sanctification.
Instead it's done ONCE, THROUGH the OFFERING of the body of Christ.

If the firstfruit (Christ 1Cor 15:20) is holy then the lump (believers) is also holy, Rom 11:16.

Through the cross we have been totally purged of sin and now have no more conscience of sin. Christ's sacrifice succeeded where the yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats failed (Heb 10:2).
So how can anyone then say believers can still be charged with sin?
They CAN'T, Rom 8:33.



---Haz27 on 4/24/13




e.lee. You often contend with Francis's legalism. And rightfully so. Francis say's "No, No, No" to the salvation of anyone who does not obey the law. By his works of the law, Francis denies the work of the cross (which is unbelief).

But the "practicing" sin translation of 1John 3:9 you follow, seems almost as bad as what Francis follows.

Can you show from scripture how good a lifestyle we need to have to prove we are abiding in Christ. According to this doctrine you follow, how do we know if we've exceeded God's forgiveness and are in to "practicing" sin?

Please correct me if I misunderstand you, but it seems that the only difference between you and Francis might be the Sabbath and dietary laws.
---Haz27 on 4/24/13


The truth of the Gospel is Jesus came to set us free from sin, and this is Paul's statement, to present every man PERFECT IN CHRIST. Colossians 1:24-27. Romans 6 .

Calvinism, along with many other false gospels, have hijacked the very heart of the Gospel, having nothing to do with sin, and have rewritten the Gospel message, that He only came for the elect , filling their hearts with pride, and contempt for those He chose for hell. Their obsession of no free will, being at the heart of this bogus doctrine is the driving force of this very contempt, is also the very heart of the spirit of anti-Christ. They believe in the deity of Christ, yet deny the very works of Christ and why He came.

Read the last 3-4 verses of Romans 6.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13


e.lee. God says that nobody can lay ANY THING (which includes sin) against those He justified, Rom 8:33.

Yet the doctrine you follow contradicts God.

God confirms Rom 8:33 in 1John 3:9 we "cannot sin", yet you follow flawed Bible versions that say it means "habitual", "practicing" sin.

I have yet to find anybody who can justify from scripture what is "practicing sin". If scripture does not give us details as to what this is, then it's clearly an error translation.

Jesus truly set us free from sin, John 8:36. We "ARE COMPLETE" in Christ, Col 2:10.
Why follow error doctrines that deny the work of the cross?
---Haz27 on 4/24/13


Oh praise God, Leej, I am so glad you said good-bye...finally. Wasn't that much easier than to repent and say:

"yes, we are complete in Christ because God said we were, even though I don't grasp and understand the depth of that verse."

That was what is too hard for you to say.

So, I'm looking forward to your not butting in with your remarks of how i'm an ignorant housewife, crazy or go to a liberal demonic church , when you are called out. Your pride and arrogance is matched by no other here on CN. That's because you never obeyed God and submitted your members unto God, learning what it is to die to self, and not think so highly of yourself. It's Funny, how YOU'RE the only one here who does.!
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13


Leej, you are treading on dangerous ground making any accusations about anyone's mental health. Do you realize how demonic and dangerous that is if perhaps you made a comment like that to the wrong person at the wrong time, and that person took their life or something. Haven't you learned anything lately about the dangers of cyber- bullying. Your continued comments about mine or anyone's mental health in the way you use it as a WEAPON to kill and destroy is unforgivable in God's eyes...because you should know better.

And you think this brings God Glory, and so does Markv. You bring God shame, and heartbreak, yet you feel no shame. That alone tells me you are as lost as lost can be.

Even unsaved people know better.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13




Leej, so here you go again slandering , and continue to slander, where I remember even Markv repeated your slander.

You continue to accuse me of having mental health issues because I don't submit to Calvinism, Or your commentaries, or your false doctrine. Then you accuse me of being an ignorant house wife, then worshipping at a church who plays drums.....and your insane remarks show who the crazy one is here. I am crazy Leej, CRAZY about Jesus Christ, CRAZY about God my Father, and I'll alway be crazy about my love and faith in God through Jesus Christ.

You only hurt yourself here Leej, keep it up!

You expect anyone has respect for you now? if you say yes....THAT'S CRAZY.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13


Kathr4453 - a few years ago, if my memory serves me correctly, you informed this forum that you had to undergo medical treatment from mental health professionals.

As such, due to your continued contentious false accusations, I believe it in my best interest to cut you loose. You can continue to go after MarkV or some other Christian that threatens you.

Demonic possession or affliction often goes along with mental illness.

Good bye.
---e.lee7537 on 4/24/13


Both Leej and Markv have DESPISED COLOSSIANS , WE ARE COMPLETE IN HIM.

Need anyone say anything more here? Leej gave us his take on God's word.... he believes man Despite what God says. Markv follows right behind.

So Leej and Markv go outside and play during a horrible tornado warning when asked to stay inside. They go out IN SPITE OF, or DESPITE the warnings, believing they know better than those issuing the warning.

Are these men really the ones YOU want to follow and listen to?

NOT ME!
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13


Kathr4453 -Have I ever suggested to anyone Gods Word? I have been an active in a Bible distributing society for over 30 years, and have distributed hundreds if not thousands of Bible and testaments both here in this country and others. I have also been an active speaker in many different churches in soliciting funds for Bibles.

Why do I recognize different translations? Because each has it weaknesses and strengths and we gain much for studying the different versions.

Why do I lean on mans understanding and not God? What I lean on is not my own understanding of Gods word but believe we learn much from the teachers the Lord has given to His church.
---e.lee7537 on 4/24/13


e.lee.
Trey and Kathr offered many scriptures confirming that Jesus totally cleansed us of sin. Scripture does not support the view that believers sin. Kathr and Trey both answered your question about Rom 7 well. Christ has DELIVERED us.

As for the modern ambiguous translation of 1John 3:9 that it refers to "practicing" sin, that is error.
Can you explain what level of disobedience to the law determines "habitual" or "practicing" sin?

Sin is transgression of the law, hence I'm assuming you mean habitual disobedience to it. So is there any scripture detailing what amount of disobedience is deemed "habitual"?
Is not keeping the Saturday Sabbath, "habitual" sin?
---Haz27 on 4/24/13


Leej, Trey posted the end of Romans 7....who will deliver me from the body of this death....I thank God through Jesus Christ. Jesus did Leej,

Paul is taking Romans 6, and reiterating to JEWS ( read the beginning verses in Romans 7).

Now go back to Romans 6....

See that verse...."submit your members alive from the dead to God" When YOU do that, you TOO will say, Jesus has delivered me from the body of this death, the death of identifying with Him in death and resurrection life.

If you fail to do that, you WILL have to answer for your sin. The Blood washes away our sin, THE CROSS puts to death the old man of sin.

Now there is no more condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST...You are COMPLETE IN HIM.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/13


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Kathr, you say to bro. elee,

"Leej, have you ever suggested to anyone GOD'S WORD?"

The word of God did nothing for you. You are still the same person you were when I first heard you speak. Nothing has change. You know why? Because the Word came to you in word only, not with power and the Holy Spirit. Your knowledge of the word is usless. You do not understand it. Here is what Paul said about people like you,
"their throat is an open tomb, with their tongues they have practiced deceit. The poison of asps is under their lips"(Romans 3:13). You spread the poison of asps with your lips, and that is everyday.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/13


Leej, have you ever suggested to anyone GOD'S WORD? Why do you keep recommending this one and that one? Why do you lean on man's understanding, and Not God?

Why do you DESPITE God's Word?

Anyone can find anyone to agree with his false doctrine.

You openly admit here over and over that the Holy Spirit is not teaching you, but man is. Do you "despite " that truth as well, that Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach you?
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


//He uses Paul's words BEFORE Paul finished what he was saying as an excuse TO SIN, and then condemns other Christians, saying they will answer for their sin. This man is totally CRACKERS.
---
If you really believed Paul was free of sin then why did he say "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.?

Your position is antinomianism. - belief that it is not necessary to accept established moral law and are not accountable to God or man for your actions since you cannot sin.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


A more meaningful and understandable of Romans 6:18-20 is from the New Living Bible.

Romans 6:18-20 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.
---elee7537 on 4/23/13


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//This is what Leej has never obeyed...blab blab blab
/---/
Because of my obedience and His work in my life, I have blessed many times, the greater being in seeing other born of His Spirit and the often unique ways He has answered all my prayers.

Christians that follow Jesus, are used by Him to bear fruit for Him and He had done that through my ministry as a Bible distributor. Many have come to a saving knowledge of Christ as a result.

One thing He has taught me in His word, is that there will always be those that case aspersions on you for what you truly are.

As such, I recognize you for what you are, a rude fruitless apostate.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


Paul asks:
Rom7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

He then answers:
Ro7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

When we die our sinful flesh does not go to heaven, our soul and spirit goes to be with the Father.

When we are reunited with our flesh, it won't be this old body of sin. It will be incorruptible.
1Cor15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

If we take sin with us to heaven then what did Christ do for us? Are we not washed in his blood? Does his blood not cleanse us from all unrighteousness?
---trey on 4/23/13


Romans 6:18-20
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


This is what Leej has never obeyed, and because of his disobedience and total failures, he thinks that is the norm.

He uses Paul's words BEFORE Paul finished what he was saying as an excuse TO SIN, and then condemns other christians, saying they will answer for their sin. This man is totally CRACKERS.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Haz27 //...cannot sin (1John 3:9).
---

Those skilled in the Greek will tell you that genuine Christian will not make a practice of sinning

1 John 3:9ESV No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Gods seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Suggest you research this issue on Christian and Apologetic Ministries as Matt Slick lays out the Greek on these verses in 1 John to prove that the proper translation is as depicted above.

I would hesitate in challenging what the saints of His church has held over the centuries. Yours is a minority view because it really lacks support.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


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2 Corinthians 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Leej and Markv do not believe this verse. They believe they were elect, and their faith and understanding of the Gospel does not include Christ Crucified at all.

They have no clue what happened on the cross. They actually believe the blood of bulls and goats washed away sin, and people were Baptized into Christ's Death and raised up...BORN AGAIN in the OT, even before Jesus died on the Cross and rose again.

And they tell others they know it all, and no one else knows anything.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


kathr said: //Our sin was removed the day we received Jesus Christ, and were baptized into His death, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the Circumcision of Christ. We are raised up together with Him and IN HIM a New Creature In Christ, totally complete In Him. And because we are Complete IN HIM, our sin is done away with In Christ once and for all.

No, Purgatory or keeping the Law is not necessary to COPMPLETE you either//

AMEN!

Who shall lay ANY THING (even sin) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies", Rom 8:33

We ARE Complete in CHRIST, Col 2:10. Sanctified (Heb 10:10), holy (Rom 11:16),perfected (Heb 10:14), cannot sin (1John 3:9).
---Haz27 on 4/23/13


1 John 1:8-9 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The "we" in these verses includes Christians like John himself.

1Jo 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for Gods seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

Those knowledgeable of the Greek support this translation.

The danger here is that one may not acknowledge his or her own sinfulness and continue in it, making it impossible for God to cleanse them of their sins.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


We are complete IN HIM. God sees me IN HIM. God does not see me apart from being IN HIM.

What Leej believes is he is a little god trying to achieve SONSHIP through his own works, APART from being IN HIM.

Leej and many here do not believe our sin was done away on the Cross, and that Jesus works upon the CROSS were incomplete, insulting His Deity...

YOUR sin and iniquity I will remember. No more. As far as the east is from the west.

Finish reading Romans 7, Paul's personal testimony of being delivered from the body of this death...BY WHO, I thank THROUGH Jesus Christ MY LORD.

NOW there is no Condemnation to those IN HIM, IN CHRIST JESUS.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


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//Our sin was removed the day we received Jesus Christ, and were baptized into His death, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the Circumcision of Christ.

Romans 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.

I have seen this kind of thing before as they claim Paul was referring to the time prior to conversion. But that is not true, nor has this been the view of the church for over 20 centuries.

Such apostates are really blind to their own sinfulness.

James 5:16 even tells us to confess our sins to each other. No sense for that if we do not sin.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


///Maybe you need a face lift MarkV, but physically we are dead to this physical world.

Apparently Kathryn has not never studied the doctrine call sanctification.

She assumes that once a person is in Christ, that person become perfect in all aspects of his or her life - blind to their own sinfulness.

Such theology is an apostate teaching, as such they are antinomians - one who believes that faith and divine grace bring about salvation and that it is therefore not necessary to accept established moral laws

I cannot accept such theology as it is foreign to the teaching of the church for over 20 centuries.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


//No, Purgatory or keeping the Law is not necessary to COPMPLETE you either.
---
If there was a place called purgatory where sinners (and we are all sinners), go to be cleansed of their sinfulness, it is doubtful that God could make it hot enough to cleanse an apostate from their sins.

As for the teachings of the church for centuries had taught we are all sinners, scripture does tell us that "
They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


James L, I am glad you are asking questions. Because many dislike the notion that they have to worry to take care of their soul up the point of death. Take Kathr's answer:

No, Purgatory or keeping the Law is not necessary to COMPLETE you either.--kathr4453ry

She is right and wrong. Jesus is our complete entrance into Heaven, but He told us to pick up our CROSS DAILY.

Purgatory IS THE MERCY OF GOD.

Using logic, can you imagine God telling us:
"Oh sorry, but you just didn't follow MY Son as I asked you to follow Him. You can't come in."

I don't care want anyone on this website tell us. You have not kept Jesus' Commands perfectly.
---Nikki on 4/23/13


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---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13
YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE

you just read fables by men,

Leviticus 16:19 And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel.

Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

What sin did Antiochus Epiphanes ever confess to God,

Cleansing the sanctuary is removal of CONFESSED sin

very differnt from cleaning it, dusting it, which is what happened due to Antiochus Epiphanes stupidity.

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood,
---francis on 4/23/13


James_L, Jesus left us with 7 SACRAMENTS to help us, 4 esp needed for our journey home.

BAPTIST: Mark 16:16 "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, whoever does not believe will be condemned"

HOLY COMMUNION/EUCHARIST: John 6:54 "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day."

CONFESSION: Jesus knows we are going to fall. GET UP. JOHN 20:23

SACRAMENT OF THE SICK: James 13-15.. He should summon the presbyters(priests) of the church, and they should pray over him and ANOINT him with OIL in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
---Nikki on 4/23/13


All true BELIEVERs have a salvation complete in Him and need not pin their faith on the opinions of philosophers nor bear the yoke of ceremonial law, nor believe one is purified in purgatory to be complete. CHRIST alone is the hope of glory and in Him we are COMPLETE.

Our sin was removed the day we received Jesus Christ, and were baptized into His death, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the Circumcision of Christ. We are raised up together with Him and IN HIM a New Creature In Christ, totally complete In Him. And because we are Complete IN HIM, our sin is done away with In Christ once and for all.

No, Purgatory or keeping the Law is not necessary to COPMPLETE you either.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/13


Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Agree that the sanctuary in this statement refers to the earthly sanctuary that was defiled by Antiochus Epiphanes, NOTHING to do with the heavenly sanctuary.

Adventists in order to give a face-saving excuse for their failed prophecy of 1844, deliberately read into this passage things that are NOT there.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


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Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Hebrews 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
---francis on 4/23/13


WHEN does He cleanses us? HOW ?? once at conversion, once at death,
---James_L on 4/22/13
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:
---francis on 4/23/13


//So, don't trust a doctrine of procrastination!

Yes, and spending too much time on the Internet is one way we procrastinate in studying God's word - something I do too much of.

Can sin enter into heaven? The question that needs to be answered is at the resurrection of the dead, we are given immortal bodies. What kind of mind will we have at that time, one that has sinful tendencies as we have now? I think not.

Many Christians do not live long enough to fully mature in their spiritual growth, so perhaps when we see Jesus, all tendency to sin will disappear.

1 Cor. 13:9-10 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
---e.lee7537 on 4/23/13


In Hebrews 12:7-8, it says that our Father corrects us or we are "illegitimate and not sons." He corrects us "that we may be partakers of His holiness" (in Hebrews 12:10). And 1 John 4:17 says "as He is, so are we in this world." So, "in this world" He does this. So, the Bible does not say we can keep sin and get corrected in another life, but "in this world" God makes us "as He is".

Plus, we have "Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," in Philippians 2:14-16.

So, don't trust a doctrine of procrastination!
---willie_c: on 4/23/13


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James L, you asked,
"Just curious - What do you mean "spiritually speaking" ??" speaking in the Spirit of spiritual things, not physical things.
Then asked:
"Are we then "not" sinners after our rebirth ?" at our physical birth we are all sinners. But when a person is born of God, he is spiritually baptist into the body of Christ. In the spirit he does not sin, but in the flesh he still does, for the flesh is not redeemed until the resurrection of the body at the Second Coming of Christ. In the Spirit his sins are forgiven, since Christ lives in him and he in Christ, yet in the flesh he still sins but is chastised when he does sin.
---Mark_V. on 4/23/13


\\When a person is born of the Spirit, spiritually speaking he automaticly enters heaven...So no sin enters heaven.\\
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13

Just curious - What do you mean "spiritually speaking" ??
Are we then "not" sinners after our rebirth ?
Can you go into more detail ?


\\The Sanctuary is in heaven
The High Priest is Jesus
The offering of blood is Jesus blood
And by His blood Jesus cleanses us of our sin\\
---francis

WHEN does He cleanses us? HOW ?? once at conversion, once at death, once at resurrection, maybe over and over again as we commit offenses?

Details, francis. Not bullet points. Make it plain and clear
---James_L on 4/22/13


francis said,
"\\We do NOT enter heaven at the moment of death, but rather when Jesus returns to give us incorruptible bodies\\" (Eph. 2:4-10) clearly says that, at the moment we are made alive, God made us alive together with Christ and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. I am very sure that Paul was not lying. Every genuine believer from the time he is made alive together with Christ, spiritually, is made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, never to be separated from Him again. The physical body which died, waits for the resurrection of the body at the Second Coming. The glorified body will have no sin for it is prepared for heaven.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


You mentioned a cleansing of the santuary, but didn't clarify - are you saying WE are the sanctuary?
---James_L on 4/21/13
Hebrews chapters 8, 9 and 10 clarifies how Jesus Christ serves as our high priest in the sanctuary in heaven which God pitched, and how Jesus Christ does the same thing IN HEAVEN which the high priest used to do on earth, which is to cleanse us from our sins

The Sanctuary is in heaven
The High Priest is Jesus
The offering of blood is Jesus blood
And by His blood Jesus cleanses us of our sin
---francis on 4/22/13


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James L, you asked,
"I have searched, in vain, for any Protestant or Evangelical church to ARTICULATE a doctrine. Do we enter heaven with sin, or do we enter heaven without sin?"
You do know that Jesus said, that to enter heaven one must be born again? Right? When a person is born of the Spirit, spiritually speaking he automaticly enters heaven.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and "raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:4-6).
So no sin enters heaven.
---Mark_V. on 4/22/13


As for sin entering heaven...body...resurrected...Will this new body we receive have a mind that is immune to sin?
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13

Good point, Lee. Any thoughts?


\\We do NOT enter heaven at the moment of death, but rather when Jesus returns to give us incorruptible bodies\\
---francis on 4/21/13

To your credit, you are attempting to articulate a view. I'm not sure why the mention of "sin nature" (whatever you mean by that)

You mentioned a cleansing of the santuary, but didn't clarify - are you saying WE are the sanctuary?

Tie all those scriptures together for us with some good commentary. Details please
---James_L on 4/21/13


Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

The cleansing of the sanctuary is in scripture also referred to as THE JUDGMENT:

Daniel 7:10 thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
---francis on 4/21/13


will you comment as to HOW we made to be without sin?
---James_L on 4/21/13

Leviticus 16:30 For on that day ( DAY OF ATONEMENT)shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

We do NOT enter heaven at the moment of death, but rather when Jesus returns to give us incorruptible bodies
---francis on 4/21/13


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---James_L on 4/21/13
2 Peter 1:4 that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

When we are born again, we become partakers of the divine nature of God, this divine nature enables us to have victory over sin, the very same way Jesus did. However, our sin nature never goes away, and if we do not continue to rely on our divine nature, in the same manner that Jesus relied on his Father, then our sin nature get's the better of us.
---francis on 4/21/13


RichardC and Trey,
I'm sure many are familiar with those scriptures you quoted. But what do those scriptures mean?

I'm really trying to get down to brass tacks with thise issue.

I have searched, in vain, for any Protestant or Evangelical church to ARTICULATE a doctrine.

Do we enter heaven with sin, or do we enter heaven without sin?

If your answer is that we enter without sin, or the stain of sin, will you comment as to HOW we made to be without sin?

The Holy Spirit sanctifies us to keep us from getting more dirty, what about the dirt from the past? Is it ever removed? If so, when and how ??


To their credit, the Roman Catholic Church is the ONLY church I've found to articulate a view on this.
---James_L on 4/21/13


As for sin entering heaven, we first must ask the question what the nature of the immoral body the righteous in Christ will be resurrected with. Will this new body we receive have a mind that is immune to sin?
---e.lee7537 on 4/21/13


Rev1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
*Applied to us at the new birth.

Ac10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

Rev21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

1John3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
---trey on 4/21/13


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\\So yes sin are recorded/ entered in heaven\\
---francis on 4/19/13

I'm not asking about whether there is an account taken. I'm asking about the actual disease we have called sin.

Do SDAs believe we are ever REALLY and ACTUALLY healed of this disease, or does God look at a sick person and say:

"Well, I can't see that he's sick because Jesus is standing if front of him"

Are we ever CURED? Maybe at conversion? at death? after death? before the foundation of the world so that we're born redeemed?

Not who provided it and the basis, the ACTUAL removing of sin, the stain, the disease, etc

And for now, I'm more interested in hearing the belief rather than the scriptural basis for the belief.
---James_L on 4/21/13


JAMES L - on 4/20/13 ----- What do you mean God put yours sin under the Blood ---------->

Leviticus 17:11 - FOR the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar, to make atonement for your soul: it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
---RICHARDC on 4/21/13


2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear FROM HEAVEN, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

the forgiveness and cleansing of sin comes from/ occurs in heaven

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,


Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
---francis on 4/20/13


\\purgatory is based on human reasoning...
While God is holy, no being will ever be able to approach Him directly and live. So is absolute holiness really a requirement for heaven? I think not.\\
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13

Sounds like human reasoning to me.


\\the day I was born again, God put my sin under the Blood. when God is finished with me here, I will be a perfect vessel.\\
---shira4368 on 4/20/13

What do you mean that God put your sin under the blood? Could you be more specific as to what exactly happened to your sin?

And are you suggesting that, upon death, there is a work of grace in which your sin is removed?
---James_L on 4/20/13


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james the day I was born again, God put my sin under the Blood. when God is finished with me here, I will be a perfect vessel. I will be in heaven singing praises to the living God.
---shira4368 on 4/20/13


Nikki,
It was a different James who asked about the RCC. I love what you said:
"No sin covered can enter Heaven....take a bath and then wear the white garments and robes given to us by our Lord."

AMEN ! !
No sin will enter heaven.

Also, Cluny made an excellent point that the Protestant doctrine of "Imputed Righteousness" leaves our filthiness untouched.

It's like getting mustard on your shirt and simply turning it inside out. The "stuff" still there.

If righteousness is merely imputed, and not removed, then we would still not be pure enough to enter. Covered sin is still sin.

Protestants and Evangelicals - any answers?
---James_L on 4/20/13


Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

While Scripture teaches that we are perfected in Christ, there is virtually nothing that even implies there is such a place or need for what is called purgatory.

The belief in purgatory is based on human reasoning, not upon what we see in the Word of God.

While God is holy, no being will ever be able to approach Him directly and live. So is absolute holiness really a requirement for heaven? I think not.
---e.lee7537 on 4/20/13


-James_L on 4/20/13

Jesus did not cleanse our sin on the cross, on the cross he shed his blood for our sin.
Sin which are recorded in the heavenly sanctuary are cleansed by the blood of Jesus, when after his death he entered the most holy place

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hebrews 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary,..which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Leviticus 16 and 23
---francis on 4/20/13


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James, I do believe you are correct on the notion of Purgatory as a place where sins are removed. Because no sin can enter heaven.
It is like gold being tested and cleaned with fire. All the dirt is removed and the gold is shiny and new again.

So as our soul.
---Nikki on 4/20/13


\\we are told that our sin is removed By Christ in the heavenly sanctuary\\
---francis on 4/20/13

Can you explain in detail what you mean by that? It sounds very ambiguous

You said "is" which is present tense

You said "removed" which is past tense

And how do you relate "Is Removed" to "In the Heavenly Sanctuary" - Do you mean in the past when He died or when we were converted? In the present as each offense is committed? Or in the future when we go there? Or apart form any time since He is eternal?

You phrase could probably be understood at least a half-dozen ways
---James_L on 4/20/13


Do Protestants or Evangelicals have any teaching about our sin being removed?
---James_L on 4/18/13

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

we are told that our sin is removed By Christ in the heavenly sanctuary,
---francis on 4/20/13


Romans 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law for the righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanest us from all sin,

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
---RICHARDC on 4/19/13


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As a Protestant, I have not heard of sin coming into heaven. The corruptible is put behind. All is new. Those who are counted worthy for the resurrection TO LIFE will be like angels. Our husband will be Christ. There will not be adultery. Our physical bodies will be transformed into spiritual bodies. Flesh and blood do not enter. There is not male and female. So related sins are done away with. The streets are gold. There is no cause to covet. We are satisfied and none envies his neighbor. All is good.
---bug on 4/19/13


First and foremost, the doctrine of purgatory is definitely from the pits of hell! It mocks at the death of Christ at Calvary.

That's because it says, Christ's death was insufficient to set the sinner free from the gates of hell, hence by their own they have to go to purgatory and suffer until the right amount of monies is paid to the Catholic church which the priest will pray to expedite their release from purgatory (hence, indulgence). How wicked!

"And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one." John 10:28-30
---christan on 4/19/13


\\However, we are not perfectly changed, but are "a work in progress", needing more correction. Our Father does correct us > Hebrews 12:7-12, "that we may be partakers of His holiness."\\

This is what in Orthodox theological language is called "theosis." It's a continual progress, and it never comes to an end, because God is infinite.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/19/13


---James_L on 4/18/13
This is a very bad quetsion.


Hebrews 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord,

It is from heaven that all sins are cleansed and blotted out

So yes sin are recorded/ entered in heaven
---francis on 4/19/13


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James, I do keep hearing something like the idea that Jesus covers our sin so our Father does not see it but He only sees Jesus in us. But in 1 John 4:17 we have how we have been perfected in God's love so that "as He is, so are we in this world." God's love in us has no sin! His love makes us more and more like His love.

However, we are not perfectly changed, but are "a work in progress", needing more correction. Our Father does correct us > Hebrews 12:7-12, "that we may be partakers of His holiness." To me, this means He does see our sin and so He corrects us of our sin.
---willie_c: on 4/19/13


James_L, I think that tendency towards sin being purged away is NOT the same thing as removing sin.

Does someone with a strong tendency towards lust become chaste just because he's dead, even if he had been chaste in his life?

Does an avaricious person become generous when he's dead?

Think about it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/19/13


James, only the righteous enter heaven. Their sins were forgiven while they were made alive in Christ.
The unbelievers sins stopped when they physically died. All their sins are written in the books. They will go to the Great White Throne of Judgment to be sentence. Where that place is located no one knows but it is not Heaven. The books will be open and they will be judged by their deeds while they were alive. There is no purgatory. Once dead, there is no second chances. Purgatory is a doctrine introduce by Sixtus IV. He was the first pope to license the brothels of Rome. He was the first pontiff to decide that indulgences could be applied to the dead. It was an infinite source of revenue that even His predecessors had not dreamed of.
---Mark_V. on 4/19/13


\\BTW, the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory does NOT say what you are claiming...\\
---Cluny on 4/18/13

Cathechism of the Catholic Church:
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified...after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

A Catholic Dictionary (1951):
Venial sins, which have never in life been remitted...must be purged away after death by the pain of intense longing for God


I'll take the official teaching as enough evidence
---James_L on 4/18/13


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\\If we have been washed, and if we've been justified by God, then when we enter heaven we have no sin.\\
---trey on 4/18/13

How is it that we have no sin "when we enter heaven" ??

Just asking for clarification.
When does this "washing" occur?
What does it entail?
How and when does one go from being sinful to "having no sin" ??

Also, though what you believe on this issue is important, are there any official Protestant or Evangelical teachings on this ??
---James_L on 4/18/13


Someone once said that sin comes from 3 sources - the devil, the flesh and from the world.

At the end of time, the devil will be gone to the lake of fire, the world system will be gone and replaced by a new world, and the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, as we will have a new immortal body that thinks like Jesus.

So sin cannot enter heaven since all of its sources are good.

Your comments!
---e.lee7537 on 4/18/13


RCC believes those in Purgatory are purified to enter heaven.
But, some go directly to Heaven. They don't go Purgatory. esp Martyrs.

No sin covered can enter Heaven.
That's like rolling in the mud and putting on white garments.
No, take a bath and then wear the white garments and robes given to us by our Lord.

James, you asked about becoming Catholic. I don't know how to contact you personally. But, you can go to the nearest Catholic Church. Watch EWTN, EWTN radio, or Catholic Answers online or radio and many question.
---Nikki on 4/18/13


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