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Was Jesus A Carpenter

Was Jesus a carpenter?

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 ---aka on 4/19/13
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Christan- and your problem is far greater and damning than denying Christ is the SON God.

"And I have seen it, and I have borne witness that this one is the Son of God"- John 1:34.

You Christan are eager to deny Christ is the "Son of God" and rather push the false doctrine that Christ is God... God who is 'a spirit'- Jo.4:24.

Denying Christ came in the flesh, but was instead 'a spirit' is the teaching of the 'antichrist'. Your false pagan-Egypto trinity dogma has you in a very difficult situation.
---David8318 on 4/28/13


Nikki, you believe Peter had a glorified body, of course you do. Your church made him a pope when he was dead already. So you can glorify him if you want even if it is false. Actually you can do what you want with your idols, that has been happening for centuries already when they removed the Second Commandment and begin to worship all the saints. I told you already, Jesus was replace from the Throne at the RCC. Most traditions fit well when He is removed. You can now raise Mary to a mediator, worship her, have a pope to take His place, allow priest to forgive sins, instead of the Lord who died to forgive the sins of man.
You belief a whole lot of others things they have taught you from the RCC traditions.
---Mark_V. on 4/28/13


You claim believers already have a glorified body, then when I answered you about it, you change your mind, you agree we do not have glorified bodies...First, that at the Second Coming there is no glorification, that as believers with glorified bodies we can go through walls---Mark_V. on 4/27/13

How do you know? Give facts not opinions.
I clarified my remarks, just in case you forgot-

Yes, you are right that we will get our glorified bodies we we go to heaven.
I should have been clearer.
I believe, not speaking for RCC, that Jesus allowed Peter to have the glorified bodies capabilities. Like Peter walking on water.---Nikki on 4/25/13
---Nikki on 4/27/13


\\Please notice he didn't say, "and now kiss my ring."
---trey on 4/26/13\\

Note about a bishop's ring: It was originally the signet seal of the diocese.

Kissing a bishop's ring is a strong reminder to both persons that is is the OFFICE and MINISTRY that is being honored, and not the person.

This, of course, is a distinction hard to make for some people.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 4/27/13


What has "kissing the ring" anything to do with being a Christian and a follower of Jesus Christ anyways? Did Jesus wore a ring and went round asking His disciples or the people to "kiss the ring"?

Did Jesus specifically say "make a Pope and he will be in-charge of my body (church) and go wear a ring and make them kiss it in acknowledgement"? How's that even an act of humility? If anything at all, it's an act of pride and lording over the very souls that you want them to know that you are in control of them.

It's goes against the grain of humility in Christianity, in fact it's hypocrisy at the highest.
---christan on 4/27/13




Please notice he didn't say, "and now kiss my ring."
---trey on 4/26/13

I detect a little jealous from you. Mad because Jesus didn't leave you in charge?

No matter,
JESUS still left Peter in charge whether you are jealous, mad, upset, envious, refuse to follow the man Jesus left or for any other reason.

Jesus left Peter in charge.
---Nikki on 4/27/13


Nikki, let's hear what your "man in charge" had to say about himself:

Ac10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
Ac10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up, I myself also am a man.

Please notice he didn't say, "and now kiss my ring."
---trey on 4/26/13


"Thankfully, nowhere in the holy spirit inspired Bible gospels will you find 'Christ is God'." David8318

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matthew 12:37

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 12:31,32

Your problem is far greater and damning than denying Christ is God.
---christan on 4/27/13


Nikki, here is what you said,

"Not only can Jesus body is able to do odd things, so can we with our glorified bodies.\\
---Nikki on 4/23/13"


You claim believers already have a glorified body, then when I answered you about it, you change your mind, you agree we do not have glorified bodies. To even suggest with your sentence that people already have glorified bodies, changes so many things from the truth. First, that at the Second Coming there is no glorification, that as believers with glorified bodies we can go through walls and suddenly disappear as Jesus did. And so many more things which are not truth, and just an innocent remark, but it speaks against the word of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/27/13


..because Jesus sacrifice death was God's plan (Acts 2:22,23: 4:27,28)something Peter wanted to stop--Mark_V.

I agree with you. Jesus is Merciful to those who are sorrowful.

Did you not read what happened to Peter after Jesus rose from the DEAD?
HE WAS STILL LEFT IN CHARGE!

LUKE 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your OWN FAITH may not fail, and once you have turned back, YOU MUST STRENGTHEN YOUR BROTHERS."
---Nikki on 4/26/13




'Christ is God'- the gospel according to christan.

Thankfully, nowhere in the holy spirit inspired Bible gospels will you find 'Christ is God'. Christan teaches a false gospel and a false Christ. Christ is not God for the following reasons:

'God is a spirit'- Jesus at John 4:24.

Using christans quote- "every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist..." (1Jo.4:3)

Christan confesses 'Christ is God'... God who is 'a spirit' according to Jesus.

Christan thus confesses Christ is 'a spirit' and not flesh. This a the antichrist nature of christan's false triadic cult worship.
---David8318 on 4/26/13


The 2 parties- as 1Tim.2:5 says- is between 'God and man'. The mediator 'between God and men, is a man, Christ Jesus'.

You don't get it do you Ruben!
---David8318 on 4/25/13

I get it, but what I do not get is if Jesus is a mediator between Jehova and men, why is it that you guys can not approach him?

Remember how Jehova arrangement for life is:

This is my Son, the beloved, listen to him .Mark 9:7, NWT

Most truly I say to YOU(David), Unless YOU(David) eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves.John 6:53, NWT:)
---Ruben on 4/26/13


Warwick, Sorry but you baffle me with that kind of explanation.IE
You say God's fullness dwells in Him.(that's two different persons here that you're trying to make one)
Jesus is the "exact image" that's two! (you're trying to make one!

You've seen me you've seen the Father (no one can see God and live) so obviously it's two persons Again you try to make one.
You try to create something that doesn't exist, Jesus is God's "Son" not His person!
Scripture says "WE" are made in God's image. We are not God!
---1st_cliff on 4/26/13


Cliff, I will answer my own questions. The answer to all is-Son of Man flesh. Surely his enemies would not have spat upon him, nor crucified Him had they understood Jesus was God. It was the Son of Man raised in the flesh.

They accused Jesus of blasphemy, not knowing who He was. He was also God: Colossians 2:9 in Jesus "the whole fullness of deity (Spirit) dwells bodily" Hebrews 1:3 Jesus the exact representation of God's being. Philippians 2:6 Jesus, in very nature God. Jesus said "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father."

God's whole fullness dwells in Him, the exact representation of God's being, God in nature, the visual representation of God's And Emmanuel-God with us!
---Warwick on 4/25/13


Nikki, with the vocabulary you use in sentences you teach something that is not truth, as many here do.--Mark_V. on 4/25/13

I am willing to listen. You speak about Peter, but please pull out a sentence written by me, and tell what you think isn't true.
---Nikki on 4/26/13


David, as you have been told many times 'Incarnate' comes from the Latin 'Incarnatio' meaning 'being or taking flesh.' See, for example John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." You need to step outside your WTS indoctrination and grasp Biblical reality.

You have finally understood that God was from eternity, and still is Spirit, not flesh. And that as Colossians 2:9 plainly says "For in him (Jesus) the whole fullness of deity (Spirit) dwells bodily" Or as Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus is the exact representation of God's being. He who Philippians 2:6 says is in very nature God.

Sure sounds like God incarnate to me.
---Warwick on 4/25/13


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Warwick,Let me put it as simpley as I can:
The answer to your question is Jesus Son of man flesh,you see, He left His spirit nature in heaven when He "emptied Himself" Is that too complicated? (else emptying Himself would have no meaning) As Jesus Son of man flesh He was totally dependent on his Father to resurrect him. His last words were "into your hands I commend my spirit" (in other words "It's up to you to give me back my life")
What part of this do you not comprehend?
---1st_cliff on 4/25/13


'But I ask you how can an angel inhabit a man?'- Warwick.

How can Almighty God inhabit a man?

'But will God really dwell on earth with men? The heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!'- 2Chron.6:18 also 1Kings 8:27 (NIV).

The very idea God dwelling with mankind was an incredulous proposition to King Solomon- an absurdity. Yet Warwick believes God has! Wonder who I'll believe?

'For I am God, and not man...'- Hosea 11:9 (NIV).

Unlike Warwick, I do not believe Jesus was an incarnation of anything. 'Incarnation' stems from pagan Egyptian mythology and is not a Bible word or teaching. But 'incarnation' is an ideal word to use for Warwick's triadic cult worship.
---David8318 on 4/25/13


Cliff, my questions are straight forward and I cannot understand why you will not answer them.

Who did His enemies spit upon? Mark 10:34
Who physically died upon the cross? Mark 10:33,34
Who physically, in the flesh, rose again? See Luke 24:39
Was it Jesus the Son of God-Spirit, or Jesus the Son of Man-flesh?
---Warwick on 4/25/13


David8318 * There must be 2 parties to a covenant or contract for it to be valid.

Ruben's answer: "There is: God-Father and God-Son".

What!! You cannot be serious! Are you trinitarians teaching that there needs to be a mediator between God and his son!?

I thought trinitarianism taught "God the Father" and "God the Son" were one and the same? How is it they need a mediator?

Ruben's false trinity indoctriniation leads him to believe God and his son cannot communicate without a mediator! How bizarre!

The 2 parties- as 1Tim.2:5 says- is between 'God and man'. The mediator 'between God and men, is a man, Christ Jesus'.

You don't get it do you Ruben!
---David8318 on 4/25/13


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Nikki, with the vocabulary you use in sentences you teach something that is not truth, as many here do. But in doing so many times they are speaking for the enemy and don't realize it, as Peter did when he told Jesus He was not going to die. Then Jesus,
"But when He had turned around and looked at His disciples, He rebuked Peter, saying, "Get behind Me satan, For you are not mindful of the things of God, but things of men"
(Mark 8:33). In a startling turnaround, Peter, who had just been praised for being God's spokeman in (Matt. 16:17-19) was then condemned as Satan's mouthpiece. Why? because Jesus sacrifice death was God's plan (Acts 2:22,23: 4:27,28)something Peter wanted to stop.
---Mark_V. on 4/25/13


except for this statement, "Not only can Jesus body is able to do odd things, so can we with our glorified bodies. First of all we do not have glorified bodies yet, that will not happen until the Second Coming when we receive our glorified bodies at the resurrection of the body.
Then gave:

"Matthew 14:29 He said, "Come." Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on water toward Jesus"
Peter did not have a glorified body when he walked on water.--Mark_V.

Yes, you are right that we will get our glorified bodies we we go to heaven.
I should have been clearer.
I believe, not speaking for RCC, that Jesus allowed Peter to have the glorified bodies capabilities. Like Peter walking on water.
---Nikki on 4/25/13


Warwick, I never worry about undermining my beliefs,my answers "are" my beliefs! I honestly don't know what you're asking. Was it Son of God or Son of man ? I answered as Son of man He never stopped being Son of God what's the problem?
I asked you about His death, you never answered!
---1st_cliff on 4/25/13


To our online friends in the JW sect. If your Bible is so different from many other translations, please query your founder not us.Ask questions about his so called "knowledge" that is "greater & better" than that of all other translators before him. Evil spirits, storms, death & decay disappears at the command of Jesus Christ but you want to reduce Him to your level of knowledge & understanding !?
---Adetunji on 4/25/13


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Cliff you ask what I am looking for with my questions. That's easy, answers! I look forward to them.

Why avoid answering? Either you cannot answer, or honest answers will undermine your beliefs. I believe that you refuse to answer for the second reason, and being honest (unlike David/Scott) you will not give deceitful or evasive answers.
---Warwick on 4/24/13


1stCliff, no one is refuting what you have just said. The issue here is those who refutes that Christ before He became flesh (man) was actually God (who's an eternal Spirit), as written in John 1:1.

That's the problem here.

No one's denying Jesus was flesh like you and I when He came to die for the sins of His people at Calvary, not even denying that He resurrected on the third day. But the problem these unbelievers (ironically, calling themselves Christians) have is they cannot for their life believe that Christ was and is God. Or how else could He perform the many miracles written in the Scriptures, more importantly, raising Himself from death, proving He's indeed God and not even death could hold Him down.
---christan on 4/24/13


Warwick, I don't know exactly what you're looking for with your Qs. Jesus never stopped being God's Son while on earth as the Son of man!
You cite Phil.2.7-8 "but made himself nothing"This is a "figure of speech" to be "nothing" is to disappear!
To empty Himself of His heavenly position is to leave it there and take on a human nature. He did not remain in heaven but left it there knowing that His Father would re-instate him after resurrection! He was not in 2 places at the same time ,what was left there was His "office"
He was executed here and would have remained "dead" if He was not resurrected!
Maybe you don't believe this! But this is the crux of the whole matter!
---1st_cliff on 4/24/13


David, you avoid answering my question!

Genesis ch. 1 shows us God spoke Creation into existence-"And God said...." However Colossians 1:16 says Jesus is Creator, so there is a serious contradiction for the JW here. In JW terms who is Creator, God or Jesus? This is no problem for the Trinitarian as they are one and the same God. However JWs claim God spoke Creation into existence through Jesus. But Scott says it was Jesus speaking, ( And Jesus said) just as a prophet speaks the words of God for Him. But this leaves you with both God directly speaking Creation into existence and Jesus likewise speaking Creation into existence.

Who spoke the words David, God or Jesus?
---Warwick on 4/24/13


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David, sadly your WTS brain-programming makes it impossible for you to understand what the Trinity is. It has been explained to you, patiently, many times, to no avail. It is not that you lack intellect but your programming has closed your mind to reality. I had first-hand experience of such brainwashing when in the USSR in the 1960's. Despite the reality many people I spoke with would not believe the truths I told of life in the west. It did not compute for them therefore it was not true. Same for you.

I have met and read about some who escaped form the WTS and some have never fully recovered. It has scarred them permanently.
---Warwick on 4/24/13


David, two more questions for you to avoid answering.

Hebrews 10:5 'Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me,"'

Was this a human body, yes or no?

You would have us believe Christ was an angel before He was incarnated, but we say He was God the Son, Spirit. Scripture says Jesus was "in very nature God" Philippians 2:6. Therefore we believe He, via the incarnation, was God (Spirit) and Man (flesh). It is easy to imagine the Spirit of God uniquely inhabiting a specially prepared flesh and blood man, as Scripture says.

But I ask you how can an angel inhabit a man?
---Warwick on 4/24/13


David8318 * Ruben- I believe exactly what 1Tim.2:5 and Acts 17:31 teach... that Jesus was a man.

Point was not if he was a God-man but if he had a body at all. Being a Man like these two verses tells us , he has a physical body.

David8318 * Ruben, according to 1Tim.2:5 you cite, how can Jesus act as a 'mediator' between 'God and man' if Jesus is also the 'God' he is mediating between!?

Here is the classic example of the misunderstanding of the Trinity!

David8318 * There must be 2 parties to a covenant or contract for it to be valid.

There is: God-Father and God-Son

David8318 * Belief in the...flawed because it negates Christ as our mediator.

But he is not 'Your' mediator, is he?
---Ruben on 4/24/13


David8318, not everyone who claim to believe in the Trinity are Christians. Haven't you read John's admonishment?

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." which Christ also said, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

As for you and your watchtower, the next verse is specifically directed at you in your unbelieve that Christ is God, "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist..."
---christan on 4/24/13


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David8318://..Jesus is 'fully God' and at the same time 'fully man'- doesn't make it reality or even scriptural// Jesus name is Emmanuel meaning GOD WITH MAN not "less than God with man". We, your so called Trinitarians follow & teach what God says. It is you JWs that try to define and limit God and the Lamb and the Holy Spirit(an impossible task). Your objections to the truth based on (1)ungodly sources & utterances of men (2) your sect's different interpretations of the Bible cannot change God.
---Adetunji on 4/24/13


David, please tell me where us trinity believers are at odds with each other.. The trinity is all thru the bible if you could understand it. spiritual understanding only comes to those who are born of the Spirit. Jw's are a cult and they are against everything a Christian stands for.
---shira4368 on 4/24/13


Warwick- there is nothing deceptive about what I say. I'm happy showing where you trinitarians are completely at odds with eachother in your false triadic cult worship.

You chaff at the idea 'God is a fleshly being of some sort', yet trinitarians Cluny and Marc believe exactly that! You are as deceptive and bent as your trinitarian cohorts!

Simply repeating your trinitarian mantra- Jesus is 'fully God' and at the same time 'fully man'- doesn't make it reality or even scriptural. Your Neo-Platonic triadic rantings are as unscriptural as the Egyptian and Babylonian false triadic cults.

The Watchtower has not misquoted. What JW's have done is expose your deception and corrupt teaching.
---David8318 on 4/23/13


\\Well we know he can simply disappear. Logic would suggest he can simply appear.

Road to Emmaus...he VANISHED from their sight.

Not only can Jesus body is able to do odd things, so can we with our glorified bodies.\\
---Nikki on 4/23/13


VERY well said. Exactly the point I was trying to bring out.
---James_L on 4/24/13


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Cliff, Philippians 2:7,8 reads "but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." All the translations I have point out that He of His own volition took a lower position "taking the form of a servant." I am confident I have the understanding of this.

As regards the other matters you have raised first answer my questions:

Who did His enemies spit upon? Mark 10:34
Who physically died upon the cross? Mark 10:33,34
Who physically, in the flesh, rose again? See Luke 24:39
Was it Jesus the Son of God-Spirit, or Jesus the Son of Man-flesh?
---Warwick on 4/24/13


Nikki, your answers were good except for this statement,
"Not only can Jesus body is able to do odd things, so can we with our glorified bodies. First of all we do not have glorified bodies yet, that will not happen until the Second Coming when we receive our glorified bodies at the resurrection of the body.
Then gave:

"Matthew 14:29 He said, "Come." Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on water toward Jesus"
Peter did not have a glorified body when he walked on water. The faith God gave him kept him above water. It does not mean our faith can keep us above water or that we can move mountains with our faith. There has never been one mountain moved by man's faith.
---Mark_V. on 4/24/13


Does He really have to walk through a wall, or does not God have power over all things physical to simply appear?
---James_L on 4/23/13

Well we know he can simply disappear. Logic would suggest he can simply appear.

Road to Emmaus John 24:30-31
And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and give it to them. With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he VANISHED from their sight.


Not only can Jesus body is able to do odd things, so can we with our glorified bodies.

Matthew 14:29 He said, "Come." Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on water toward Jesus
---Nikki on 4/23/13


Instead of a carpenter I would describe Christ as a Master Builder:

Eph2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

Heb3:4 For every house is builded by some man, but he that built all things is God.

1Pe2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
---trey on 4/23/13


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David, you keep avoiding answering my questions:

Genesis ch. 1 shows us God spoke Creation into existence-"And God said...." However Colossians 1:16 says Jesus is Creator, so there is a serious contradiction for the JW here. In JW terms who is Creator, God or Jesus? This is no problem for the Trinitarian as they are one and the same God. However JWs claim God spoke Creation into existence through Jesus. But Scott says it was Jesus speaking, ( And Jesus said) just as a prophet speaks the words of God for Him. But this leaves you with both God directly speaking Creation into existence and Jesus likewise speaking Creation into existence.

Who dunnit, who spoke the words, God or Jesus?
---Warwick on 4/23/13


Warwick,
I said "empty" Himself you said "lowered" Himself.If he emptied or lowered Himself He did change His place (in the Godhead?)else He could not be killed!(and by humans?) A human can kill God??? Who or which one "in the Godhed" as you put it, is immortal? Father Son or both?
So from your standpoint, you would have to conclude that only the body was killed? Is that what saves us? 175lbs of flesh and bones? Did He give His life or a corpse?Did shedding Hid blood just drain the corpse or did it kill His person?
BTW I did answer you!
---1st_cliff on 4/23/13


1stCliff, talk about 5th graders, you think so highly of your education background that you cannot understand, "...and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." as compared to your "He returned to His heavenly place as God's spirit Son".

Hello? Jesus was already the Son of God (who's eternal and Spirit) before He became flesh. Basically in a 5th grader nutshell, you're rejecting that Christ was God before He became flesh even though the Gospel of John explicitly say so. Good for you and so much for your higher education you boast of that you can't even understand written English.

That's precisely why God sends "souls" to hell, rejecting Christ who's God.
---christan on 4/23/13


Cliff, of Jesus Paul also says, Colossians 1:19 "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him," Remember this is He who "is before all things, and in him all things hold together." "He who sustains all things by his powerful word" Hebrews 1:3.

Paul says Jesus lowered Himself voluntarily, willingly becoming a servant, by taking upon Himself human flesh Philippians 2:7,8.

At no stage did Jesus relinquish His place in the Godhead. He has no Spirit nature but in Jesus we see God (Spirit) incarnate, dwelling in the body which was prepared for Him, Hebrews 10:5. "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" 2 Peter 1:17.
---Warwick on 4/23/13


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David in Luke 24:39 Jesus says "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." He clearly says He has flesh and bones and is not a spirit. John 20:20-28 echoes this when Jesus asks Thomas to touch Him so as to see it was the Jesus Thomas knew. On seeing Jesus Thomas called Him "My Lord and My God. This shows us Thomas recognized Jesus as his earthly Lord, and Heavenly God.

David, you continue to distort what I believe. I have always said Jesus is God with us. As Son of Man he is fully human (Hebrews 10:5) and as Son of God (Spirit) He is God. You confuse the two.
---Warwick on 4/23/13


Nikki,
thanks for the quote of John 20:27.

I was taught as a child to believe that once we leave this body, that we will forever be spirits.

In my 20s I was taught that we will have a "spiritual body" in the sense of spirit essence, and it was always qualified with "Jesus' resurrected body could walk through walls"

I wondered - if Jesus had eaten something right before He walked through a wall, would the food go through the wall, too? I know it sounds stupid, but it drove me to study this "spiritual body" issue

Does He really have to walk through a wall, or does not God have power over all things physical to simply appear?
---James_L on 4/23/13


'Jesus had a physical body resurrected as a spiritual body'- MarkEaton.

I agree Mark... this is exactly what scripture teaches (1Pe.3:18, ASV). However, trintarians Cluny & Marc teach Jesus was "physically" resurrected, ascended to heaven and remains in the flesh.

This is the divisive nature of triadic cult worship. You have both Cluny & Marc spouting "Jesus is God" incarnate and yet post-resurrection remains a flesh and blood man. This blasphemous trinity dogma strips Almighty God of his Divinity.

On the other hand you have another trintarian Warwick complaining, 'You imagine God is a fleshly being of some sort'! But thats exactly what triadic worship teaches- Deception, division and mystery!
---David8318 on 4/23/13


Ruben- I believe exactly what 1Tim.2:5 and Acts 17:31 teach... that Jesus was a man. Not God or a God-man as Warwick pushes with his perfidious teachings.

Ruben, according to 1Tim.2:5 you cite, how can Jesus act as a 'mediator' between 'God and man' if Jesus is also the 'God' he is mediating between!? The false triadic cult worship nullifies the very concept of Jesus' mediatorship. There must be 2 parties to a covenant or contract for it to be valid. The man Jesus is the mediator between the 2 parties in that covenant- God and man.

Belief in the false trinity dogma is seriously flawed because it negates Christ as our mediator.
---David8318 on 4/23/13


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Cliff, again I ask:

Who did His enemies spit upon? Mark 10:34
Who physically died upon the cross? Mark 10:33,34
Who physically, in the flesh, rose again? See Luke 24:39
Was it Jesus the Son of God-Spirit, or Jesus the Son of Man-flesh?
---Warwick on 4/23/13


James L, right again. John 20:27 "Put you finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side,..." John 21:10-13...."Come, have breakfast."..

How did Adam and Eve's defiled the body? EATING!

Jews told to stay alive by eating what? THE LAMB and unleavened bread Exodus 12:8 "That same night they shall eat it's roasted flesh with unleavened bread and bitter herbs."

So what does John the Baptist call Him? John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Behold the LAMB OF GOD, who takes away the sin of the world."

John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven, whoever eats this bread will live forever,..." WHAT ARE YOU EATING?
---Nikki on 4/23/13


Christian, This should be easy for you (or a 5th grader) define "with"
---1st_cliff on 4/23/13


Jesus had a physical body resurrected as a spiritual body.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/22/13
You may mean glorified, rather than spiritual


GLORIFIED BODY: Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

PHYSICAL BODY: Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


in either one, He was in a spiritual body*
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
---francis on 4/23/13


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"When He was brought back to life (resurrected) He returned to His heavenly place as God's spirit Son!" 1stCliff

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God."

Talk about strange belief, yours is way up that pile.
---christan on 4/23/13


"So actually God never had a Son ,He just played both roles to fool the people??? So Mary breast fed God and changed God's diaper huh?

OK, some people have strange beliefs!" 1stCliff


So, what's yours?
---christan on 4/23/13


Warwick, Paul said that Jesus "emptied Himself" of His heavenly spirit nature to become the Son of man as a human!
When He was brought back to life (resurrected) He returned to His heavenly place as God's spirit Son!
Define "emptied Himself"
---1st_cliff on 4/23/13


Cliff:
Who did His enemies spit upon? Mark 10:34
Who physically died upon the cross? Mark 10:33,34
Who physically, in the flesh, rose again? See Luke 24:39
Was it Jesus the Son of God-Spirit, or Jesus the Son of Man-flesh?
---Warwick on 4/22/13


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Jesus had a physical body resurrected as a spiritual body.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/22/13

Eh??

Scripture NEVER contrasts "spiritual" body against "physical" body

Compare all the contrasts:

perishable - imperishable
dishonor-glory
weakness-power
natural-spiritual

Compare scriptures where spiritual is contrasted against natural, carnal, fleshly, etc

Natural simply means "weak, ungodly, sin-wrecked" and Spiritual simply means "powerful, godly, not sin-wrecked"

To imply that "spiritual body" means "spirit-based" denies the REAL, bodily resurrection of our Lord, and introduces mysticism into the faith
---James_L on 4/22/13


Warwick, I have indeed and it's extremely frustrating!
Jesus is called the Son of God because that's what the Father named/called Him (Only begotten as well)and was with His Father as co-creator (Jn.1)
He's called the Son of man because of Mary's having bore Him and was human during his stay on earth!
He did not cease to be His Son even after ascending and is that to this day!
I find this both logical and reasonable!(and scriptural)
---1st_cliff on 4/22/13


Warwick has yet to answer whether he believes (like Cluny and Marc) Jesus was resurrected 'in the flesh' or 'in the spirit'? (1Pe.3:18, ASV)

His failure to answer is indicative of the divisions rampant in triadic cult worship.
---David8318 on 4/22

1 Timothy 2:5 states, For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

"He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.Acts 17:31
---Ruben on 4/22/13


His failure to answer is indicative of the divisions rampant in triadic cult worship.
---David8318 on 4/22/13

Seems to me the Bible already answers your question:

1 Cor 15:42-44 " So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body, it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory, it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power, it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body"

Jesus had a physical body resurrected as a spiritual body.
---Mark_Eaton on 4/22/13


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Cliff, one of the problems with this site is that the moderators selectively post blogs, rejecting some for no apparent reason. It makes it hard to carry on a reasoned argument. You have experienced this haven't you.

I asked-Can you explain why Jesus is called both the Son of God, and the Son of man?
---Warwick on 4/22/13


David, you are being deceitful again, but what is new for a JW?

Trinitarians believe Jesus, as to His Spirit, is fully God-called the Son of God. And to His flesh He is man-the Son of Man. This has been explained to you plainly and simply, as to a child, again and again, but either you are unable to comprehend plain English, or you prefer to misrepresent what is said. Now that's a hard one!!

I ask you a question: When Scripture describes Jesus as both fully God-the Son of God, and fully man-the Son of Man-what does this mean?

BTW You still have not answered my posts regarding the Watchtower's blatant misuse of quotes!
---Warwick on 4/22/13


Warwick,There are some things we, as humans, do understand.Especially things that don't make sense.IE

Jesus pleaded with his Father on the cross. Why if He "was" the Father? (sense?)
He said "Not my will but Your will" Not "my" will but "my" will??? (sense?)

The biggest kicker of all is The Supreme Creator of the universe allowing Himself to be spit on and whipped by humans??? NO way Jose'
Jn.3.16 says He sent his ONLY BEGOTTEN Son! Who obediently served His Father!
No mystery Warwick, face it, God has a Son. They work together as a team.Not some abstraction!
Jesus said "My Father has kept working 'till now and I keep working" That's 2 workers.not one!
---1st_cliff on 4/22/13


'You imagine God is a fleshly being of some sort'- Warwick.

But that is exactly what Warwick's trinity dogma pushes.

As testified by both trinitarians Cluny and Marc, God (in the form of Jesus) was "phisically" resurrected and raised to heaven in the flesh and remains in his fleshly body. These apostate trinitarians believe exactly what Warwick claims is absurd- that the Almighty God is a flesh and blood man.

Warwick has yet to answer whether he believes (like Cluny and Marc) Jesus was resurrected 'in the flesh' or 'in the spirit'? (1Pe.3:18, ASV)

His failure to answer is indicative of the divisions rampant in triadic cult worship.
---David8318 on 4/22/13


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Cliff there you go again with your anthropomorphisms. You imagine God is a fleshly being of some sort, therefore limited to being in one place at one time, but He is omnipresent. I believe you will, one day, rid yourself of JW indoctrination and realize God is not man but uncreated eternal Spirit. Then, I believe, you will understand that the three in one being able to communicate makes sense. Not in human terms but in God's terms, He who is unlimited in power and ability. You are unable to explain the power and process by which God created, while believing He did create. You therefore hold this belief by faith, just as we hold to the reality of the Trinity by faith.
---Warwick on 4/22/13


while Jesus was on esrth some 33 1/2 years ,(evangelicals insist he was God) Who was minding the store????
---1st_cliff on 4/20/13

surely Jesus was a carpenter: Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary,

But I think he closed the store due to restructuring of his company, to restructure his companions:

It seems he gave up carpentry to couch fishing.

Mark 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.
---francis on 4/21/13


Trey, Jesus was on earth and in heaven at the same time?
He prayed to Himself in heaven? He told Himself that He was well pleased with Himself??? It gets curiouser and curiouser!
So actually God never had a Son ,He just played both roles to fool the people???
So Mary breast fed God and changed God's diaper huh? OK ,some people have strange beliefs! That's more bizzare than the Book of Mormon!
---1st_cliff on 4/21/13


1st Cliff,

You ask "who was minding the store?"

Joh3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Note: Christ states that he is in heaven. Christ never gave up his diety. Even while Christ was here on earth, he was still in heaven. He is still omnipresent!
---trey on 4/21/13


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Was Jesus a carpenter?

I personally don't believe that he was in the sense of the word that is commonly taken.
I base my view on the use of Jewish idiom regarding common occupation verses ministry ordination.

A carpenter would not have had the training or been allowed to preach in the synagogue.

In Isaiah the quote is, "The stone that the builders rejected."

We know from the new testament that certain religious leaders rejected Jesus Christ as Messiah.

But others accepted him and became builders in regard to teaching scripture to others. The apostle Paul referred to himself as a builder.
---jan4378 on 4/21/13


\\while Jesus was on esrth some 33 1/2 years...Who was minding the store????\\
---1st_cliff on 4/20/13

Ummm,
that would be the same One who was minding the store when God asked Adam what he had done.

That same One was minding the store when God appeared to Moses in a bush

That same One was minding the store when Jacob wrestled with God

That same One was minding the store when the seas were calmed

That same One was minding the store when Lazarus was raised

That same One was minding the store when the disciples were breathed upon to receive the Spirit of God

That same One will come with the name King of Kings and Lord of Lords on His robe and thigh

I wonder. WHO could that be?
---James_L on 4/20/13


"Who was minding the store????" 1stCliff

You may think you're that Godless comedian like Bill Maher but I assure you from your line of question that came directly from your heart, you have a god that's most definitely not the God of the Holy Bible and of this creation.

I'm in line with King David when he wrote: "Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? But our God is in the heavens: He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased.

For I know that the Lord is great, and that our Lord is above all gods. Whatsoever the Lord pleased, that did He in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places."


Be patient, thy time will come.
---christan on 4/20/13


To those trinitarians the question is , while Jesus was on esrth some 33 1/2 years ,(evangelicals insist he was God) Who was minding the store????
---1st_cliff on 4/20/13


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The Greek simply implies the Joseph was a worker who worked with his hands. Being a Carpenter would place an individual relatively high on a small Nazarene village social scale. The other problem is by the time of Christ most of good trees for timber had been previously harvested over the centuries. What was left for the average Palestinian was immature scrub wood fit for animal yokes and small fishing boats. More than likely Joseph was simply a day laborer who did what work was available on a day to day basis. This would Joseph at the bottom of the village social structure much more in keeping with the social structure that Christ represents.
---Blogger9211 on 4/20/13


The term 'carpenter' is synonymous with "Mauryan". That was the way the ancient Aramaics protected their identity. He was born in a Royal family of kings- as son of David.
---Joseph_ROY on 4/20/13


"Was Jesus a carpenter?" Occupationally perhaps. At least that is the way He is identified in Mar 6:3. However in Mat.13:55 He is identified only as "the carpenter's son".
---josef on 4/19/13


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