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How To Get To Heaven

How does one get to heaven? does a person have to be smarter then another? do all man have faith in Jesus Christ and can use it if they want or not? Or is it all an act of God? Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 4/27/13
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The Seg, you have given good points concerning life and death. What death really means is "separation" whether physically, spiritually, or eternal death. Death is never cessation of existence, nor cessation from conscience. Satan did die spiritually, he was separated from God the minute he disobeyed God. Physical death is also separation. "The body without the spirit is dead" James 2:26. When the rich man died, his physical body was buried in the ground and his soul was separated and went to hades. From there he could reason and think. He desired water and someone to return back from the dead to warn his brothers of that place he was in. Eternal death is separation from God's blessings forever.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/13


Why did you introduce Satan into the conversation?

To show there was a spiritual death before Adam sinned.
Death was already there!

You also introduced the concept that Adam eating plants
No, not Adam! The animals that were here on earth!

The animals that were here on earth had to eat Gen_1:30 and God gave them every green herb for meat. And it was so!
TheSeg on 5/3/13

To show death was also on here on earth!


Why should God be interested in the trees? Because He made them, they are his. Everything under the whole heavens is His.

This also includes death!

Gen_2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them!
This also includes death!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/4/13


Christan, the gospel starts with Adam's sin, and its disastrous consequences for creation (Romans 8:22)and continues with God giving His Son for mankind's redemption "that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16. "For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead" 1 Corinthians 15:21,22.

It is all about our Creator, and loving Redeemer who came to save us "Adam's helpless race." Satan is an early bit player for those who love the Lord!
---Warwick on 5/5/13


"He is not part of God's plan for the redemption of mankind." Warwick

O how very wrong you are! You forget that in redemption, there's also rejection and condemnation - and you cannot separate this from the will of God. That's because Paul declares,

"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory."

Satan has a very important role in God's plan and will, "...and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world".
---christan on 5/4/13


Warwick, dont you think for one moment Im laughing at you!
I am simply laughing at the things men believe God is saying.

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

And dont even give the things I say another thought.
After all they are really only my presumptions.
And good luck with Cliff!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/4/13




Seg, why did you introduce Satan into the conversation? He is not part of God's plan for the redemption of mankind. It was Adam's sin which brought God's curse upon the earth, not Satan's.

You also introduced the concept that Adam eating plants contradicts the idea there was no death before Adam sinned. In this light your last comments are a little confusing.

Why should God be interested in the trees? Because He made them, they are his. Everything under the whole heavens is His.
---Warwick on 5/4/13


Warwick sometimes the things people say just make me laughs.

You told mark:
I agree that Adam and Eve died spiritually because of their disobedience.
But left out Satan, what, Satan didn't die spiritually?

You said plants are not alive in the sense animals, and humans are.
As if I don't know that, going on to talk about the soul!
As if I don't know that neither!

Take the time to read what I said about a physically death and a spiritual death!
Then read Rev_7:3. Why should he care about the trees?
They're not alive in the sense animals, and humans are.
Now go and read Psa_148!
Now it's just not about trees and plants!
Life is life and death is death to everything!

Peace
---TheSeg on 5/4/13


Seg, you are trying to use Scripture to contradict the very plain Scriptures I gave. Yours do not work. Yes of course plants are alive but as I pointed out they are not included in the 'nephesh chayyah', the 'living creatures.' Note also Genesis 2:19 "Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name." Note, Adam named only animals, "every living creature." Therefore plants are not alive as animals are. We can have a fulfilling personal relationship with animals, but not with grass!
---Warwick on 5/3/13


"The tree of life will also be in heaven!" Warwick

I do hope you do not mean the one that has real roots, a trunk and leaves sprouting during the spring and summer weather. If so, how does something like a tree even exist in eternity, where there's no time?

You do realise that the "tree of life" is symbolic of Christ right? Though in the garden God did plant real trees and told Adam not to eat of one, not that the tree could give Adam or anyone life. It was God commanding Adam to be obedient or it would result in fatal consequence, which happened anyways.
---christan on 5/3/13


Well Warwick, like I said before.
Peace

Seg, plants are not alive in the sense animals, and humans are.
Next line, Research!

Christ said:
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you!

The Lord say this?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God?
or with (what comparison shall we compare it?)
(It is like a grain of mustard seed!)

But go and Research it!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/3/13




Mark, my third effort.

I agree that Adam and Eve died spiritually because of their disobedience. However they also died physically. The Hebrew behind Genesis 2:17 says in dying they would surely die. They are now mortal. See Genesis 3:22 which shows Adam was banished from the garden "lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever." To me this says that if Adam had not sinned and remained in the garden he could/would have eaten from this tree and lived forever. Therefore he was meant to be immortal but brought death upon himself and mankind by sinning.

The tree of life will also be in heaven!
---Warwick on 5/3/13


"Nowhere does God say He created death." Warwick

Really? So death just popped out from no where without a Creator even when the Bible declares "All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." I assure you this is without exception, including death.


"Why would death have to exist..."

Exist? Death is the consequence of disobedience to God or "the wages of sin is death" would have no meaning. Only the Holy Bible speaks explicitly of death and the main reason why man die. Such wisdom that God shares with us is priceless or how else would one fear Him? Unless you're an unbeliever...
---christan on 5/3/13


Seg, plants are not alive in the sense animals, and humans are. Research the Hebrew 'nephesh,' commonly rendered 'soul' in English. In Genesis 1:20,21,24 'nephesh chayyah' is translated 'living creatures', while in 2:7 applied to Adam 'nephesh chayyah' is translated 'living soul.' These terms are never applied to plants, which were provided as food 1:29,30. Man was only permitted to kill and eat animals after the flood 9:3

Adam did not die immediately but as the Hebrew behind Genesis 2:17 reads "in dying you shall die." Genesis 3:22 shows he would have lived forever if he remained in the garden, but he was removed, grew old and died. Not the original plan.
---Warwick on 5/3/13


In the Bible women were not chattel. They had rights and choices. Remenber when women complained to Moses about discrimination GOD sided with the women against the men. Also women have been prophets of GOD. There is no higher position.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/3/13


Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,

Heres another thing you might want to consider when it comes to (physical death) being here on earth even before Adam sinned.

The animals that were here on earth had to eat Gen_1:30 and God gave them every green herb for meat. And it was so!

Are trees, plants, grass, fruits, vegetables and herb alive or dead, before you eat them?
You know they are.

After you eaten them are they still alive?
No, they are not. Clearly showing you death was all ready here on earth.

But these deaths are not spiritual death, only physical death!
Spiritual death could only come by someone spiritual.
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/3/13


Warwick, the relevance Satans fall from grace!
Satan fall had nothing todo with tempting Eve.

He was already spiritually dead before temping Eve in the Garden.
That's the relevance here! A spiritual death before Adam's!

No one said Satan die physically!
Just as Adam, didn't die physically when in turned from God.
But they both suffered spiritual death. Didn't they?

God is not talking about a physical death, here.
In fact all flesh is already condemned!
But he is talking about your spirit, your soul, a spiritual death. Mat_10:28!

So, before Adam entered the world nothing could die spiritually, only physically.
There was not A Living Soul. Gen_2:7!
Now, you can cite Rom_5:12!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/13


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Warwick, thank you brother, I will wait for it if you post it again. Don't worry, I had a few not posted also. At first I use to copy every answer I sent so that if it was not posted I could do it again, but I was using too much paper that way so I stopped. Peace
---Mark_V. on 5/3/13


Mark, I replied yesterday in detail but it was not posted. Those who run this site are quite capricious, and unreasonable about what they do and do not post!

Moderator please explain why my post was not published? Did I break some rule? If so please explain!
---Warwick on 5/2/13


Seg, of course Jesus was preordained to die however death did not exist until, and because of Adam's sin. "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" Romans 5:12. No matter where you look in Scripture God says sin was not in the world before Adam's sin. You know that.

My apologies for misspelling your name,it was not intentional. Are you content with Seg or do you prefer TheSeg?

I do not see the relevance of your comments regarding Satan. I am well aware Satan tempted Eve but God holds Adam responsible. And of course Satan has yet to die physically.
---Warwick on 5/2/13


Warwick, At first glance it would seem you had a point but in ancient times (bible times) women were never "equal" with men, they were bought,sold and traded like chattel!
WE don't have to be equal to be one (team)or (unit)
Nice try though!
---1st_cliff on 5/2/13


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Warwick, I really don't believe I have to prove anything to anyone.
But I also believe absolutely everything was preordained by God not just death!

But, since you don't believe Christ was preordained to death before the foundation of the world. Proving the existence of death!

Maybe you will believe Satan. He was an angel before his fall.
When he fell you don't believe he suffer a spiritual death, after pulling way from God. You know you can't deny he did, right?

Warwick this was a death just as real as any other death.
You said, Isn't this a presumption on your part?
No, Warwick! I don't presume to know anything.
But, I believe everything of that which was given.
May God bless you!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/13


Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.( HUMAN NATURE)

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh ( HUMAN NATURE), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ( DIVINE NATURE)
---francis on 5/2/13


Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

So, death is destroyed!
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

It isn't about the correctness of my belief but what Scripture says.
Can you show from Scripture that I hold the wrong view?

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/13


Warwick
Also I am not trying to tell you are wrong in your beliefs.
I am simply telling you the things I believe.

Like when you once told me you should address people by their names.
On these blog I believe my name is TheSeg or Seg, not Seq.
I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again?

I was not put on this earth to convince you or anyone, of anything!
That is God job. The things you believe are given to you by God.

Look at Cliff there, he believe there are two Gods.
You think you're going to convince him, there is only one?
When in his own eyes he sees two?
Rom_14:1, Rev_22:11
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/13


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GOD did forgive Adam and Eve. But forgivness comes only through the Blood of JESUS. Which is why he is the lamb slain from the Foundation of the world. We are only saved by grace alone which was bought by the blood and life of JESUS CHRIST.

Death is the result of sin. Adam knew immediatly what it was for an animal was slain to show the blood of JESUS and it's skin was used to clothe Adam and Eve. He would have been told about death for the warning was given about him and eve dying. But he probable did not get the real meaning until he saw the lamb slain.

Let us keep our eyes on JESUS.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/2/13


Seq, you wrote "If Adam didn't know what death was this warning from God would be meaningless." Would God leave Adam ignorant of what His warning meant? No.

Why would death have to exist for Adam to understand what it was? Isn't this a presumption on your part?

The Scriptures I have quoted to you and others show death (physical and Spiritual) came only because of sin, the sad result of man's disobedience, part of the curse which has oppressed mankind ever since. Jesus via His substitutionary death and resurrection paid the price of sin and the curse is lifted. Death is destroyed. It isn't about the correctness of my belief but what Scripture says. Can you show from Scripture that I hold the wrong view?
---Warwick on 5/2/13


Warwick, to blame God for death entering the world seems wrong but you have to remember that it was He who put the curse that brought death. He didn't have to curse mankind, for He could have forgiven Adam right then and there but didn't, so without God's curse death would have never entered the world. As we are told that Jesus Christ was foreknown as a Sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20) so death was in the plan of God. Second, there are three deaths mentioned in Scripture. Spiritual death, physical death and eternal death. Each death is separation, is the result of sin, and has its remedy in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/2/13


I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.

You think this is only talking about light and peace?
Or could it be talking about so much more than you know.
Like life and death?

You look death as God enemy. Yet death is only your enemy.
If death was God enemy, you wouldn't have been saved though his death.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Remember!
We know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/2/13


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Cliff, a further point just dawned upon me, a point of your own making. You say you and your wife are one flesh, and of course Scripture said that long ago. That means you are equal doesn't it. Therefore am I wrong in pointing out that when Jesus said I and the Father are one He meant He and the Father are likewise equal?
---Warwick on 5/2/13


Warwick, You cite a scripture that you feel proves your point, but does it? IE
"I and tha Father are one"-one God!
God said Gen.2.24 (of Adam and Eve)"and they will become one flesh" yet my wife and I are 2 people! How does being "one" prove they are not 2 persons???
You say the Son of man "gave His life" Explain how God "gave His life"???when He is immortal!
---1st_cliff on 5/1/13


Christan, Nowhere does God say He created death.

Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned" This plainly says death entered God's creation as a consequence of Adam's sin, as God warned-not simply spiritual death as Jesus physically died to reverse the effects of Adam's physical sin.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

How can death be the last enemy to be destroyed (1 Corinthians 15:26) if it has been here as long as life?

As 1 Corinthians 15:22 shows Jesus gives mankind back eternal life, stolen by Adam's sin.
---Warwick on 5/1/13


Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: .......
---TheSeg on 4/30/13

Great reply. Choice is GOD's. A peace of mind and spirit when one accepts that GOD, can do whatever with whoever he desires.
Vs the reward for those that argue/dismiss Prophets and GOD?

Matt 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Luke 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost.
---Trav on 5/1/13


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Well Seq some good points. The Reason that Adam and Eve did not drop dead is that GOD had a plan ready to give them a second chance. Remember JESUS died from the foundation of the world. JESUS IS GOD. We are saved by Grace alone through Faith alone. Not by works.

Those who are saved will lived Saved. First John.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/1/13


"If death was a normal, created in, part of God's creation then it is not an "enemy." Warwick

And death just popped out of nowhere without a Creator? Are you serious? Here, try and digest these verses and let us know if you still come to the same conclusion.

"All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Revelation 4:11, "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4

And this excluded death?
---christan on 4/30/13


Cliff you are being silly. As I have explained repeatedly Scripture says Jesus has two natures, as the Son of God He is fully God-Spirit. As the Son of Man He is fully man-flesh. Matthew 20:28 "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Jesus indeed said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. That is because Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30) i.e. we are one God, as Jesus is the exact representation of God's being He who sustains all things by His powerful word Hebrews 1:3. The image of the invisible God, He who created everything ever created, in whom all things hold together Colossians 1: 15-17.

If I am incorrect show me from Scripture.
---Warwick on 4/30/13


Warwick
//As you know Adam did not die immediately. However this verse does say death is a direct consequence of disobedience i.e. sin.//

Who just wrote?
//"For the wages of sin is death,......" Romans 6:23 i.e. death is the consequence of sin. Nowhere does Scripture say otherwise.//
It wasn't me, but let me know who win!

Is Romans 6 talking about a physical or spiritual death?

//As I previously showed 1 Corinthians 15:26 calls death "the last enemy to be destroyed." If death was a normal, created in, part of God's creation then it is not an "enemy."//

Again as I previously pointed out is the world an enemy of God?
Yet the world was formed in the creation, wasn't it!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/1/13


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Warwick, I am sorry to oppose one of your views here but you gave,
"Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
The passage says, "for in the day" that you eat of it you shall surely die" Adam and Eve did die that day, it was a spiritual death, (separation from God). And physically died over 9 hundred years later.
Spiritual death came and the reason they need to be born of the Spirit, because they are spiritually dead to the Lord. Otherwise if they were not spiritually dead, physical death would be the end of everyone.
---Mark_V. on 5/1/13


"You obviously have the wrong interpretation of "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" 1st Cliff

And what's your interpretation? That Jesus is not God? Did you miss out Christ also declared, "I and my Father are one." And how do you interpret that one? Other than Jesus is declaring that He's God.

"Since Jesus was able to die he was not "fully God" (as you put it)"

Wrong again, did you forget Jesus declared "I am the resurrection, and the life". Can a man really say this?

You might want to ask yourself the question you threw at Seg when you asked, "Are you accepting what scripture says?"
---christan on 5/1/13


Warwick, which one is really meaningless?

If Adam was already going to die this warning from God is meaningless.
If Adam didn't know what death was this warning from God would be meaningless.

When God said, "you shall surely die."
Death already had to exist or the word die would be meaningless to Adam.

I heard you the first time, I also remember it!
If death was a normal, created in, part of God's creation then it is not an "enemy."
Why because you believe so? Must I believe everything you believe?
Do you believe you are infallible! Rom_8:28!

Consider this, is darkness a friend or an enemy of God?
Yet Gen_1:2, says darkness was there! Doesn't it?
I Love you, Warwick!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/1/13


Another nonsenical idea is that New Jerusalem is a "literal" city.really? 1500 miles square and 1500 miles high? Like the space station is only 300 miles up,yep, that's what it says!
I doubt that anything in Revelation is literal!
---1st Cliff

Don't totally understand dimensions either. I'd cringe to call it Non-sense though, it makes perfect sense to GOD.
There are more witness's to the gates of the city given by Jesus.
Matthew 19:28
Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel
---Trav on 5/1/13


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Warwick, Well, yes I can, actually.1Tim.6.16 says "God alone has immortality...no one has seen nor can see"
Since Jesus was able to die he was not "fully God" (as you put it) and hundreds of people saw Jesus!
You obviously have the wrong interpretation of "if you have seen me you have seen the Father"
Are you accepting what scripture says?
---1st_cliff on 4/30/13


And just to show you how brilliant God is!
How does one get to heaven? I just love this line and you really should think about it!

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Yes, I have even chosen a devil. But this just can't be!

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies!
That ye may be the children of your Father!
---TheSeg on 4/30/13


Seq, "For the wages of sin is death, ......" Romans 6:23 i.e. death is the consequence of sin. No where does Scripture say otherwise.

Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

As you know Adam did not die immediately. However this verse does say death is a direct consequence of disobedience i.e. sin. If Adam was already going to die this warning from God is meaningless.

As I previously showed 1 Corinthians 15:26 calls death "the last enemy to be destroyed." If death was a normal, created in, part of God's creation then it is not an "enemy."
---Warwick on 4/30/13


Lastly
So many people use this line to say there was no death in the world.
Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Yet it does not say that!

What God is saying is there was no (death by sin) in the world.
Adam's sin was onto death, being put into the world (death by sin) pass into the world
Before Adam there was no (death by sin.)
Angels don't die Satan was an angel (at one time.)
It had to be a man. Jesus was also a man!
Where does the bible ever say there was no death in the world? It doesn't!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/30/13


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Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Before that nothing at all existed.

Jas_4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
And 2Pe_3:10.
1Jn_2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Obviously then neither can the world be an enemy if it was part of God's creation, always existing, can it?

Wonder when this was this ordained by God, Rev_20:10?
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/30/13


1stCliff, here's simply your situation - to you Jesus Christ is not God, period. You can dance around all you want in your carnal intellect and understanding but this is what Scripture declares,

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

You see, before you can believe Christ is the Son of God, you must believe He is God (and God is spirit). And that, you have a problem because He's your stumbling stone.
---christan on 4/30/13


Cliff it all comes down to whether you are prepared to accept what Scripture says. Can you show me a Scripture which says that Jesus is not fully man (flesh) and fully God (Spirit)? You know you can't!
---Warwick on 4/30/13


Obviously Adam was not created to die, as death did not enter the world until he sinned- Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

1 Corinthians 15:26 "The last enemy to be destroyed is death." Death cannot be an enemy if it was part of God's creation, always existing, can it?
---Warwick on 4/30/13


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Warwick,No matter how you state it scripturally it always involves more than one,IE **exact "representation" of God's being** exact "image".
**fullness of diety dwells bodily**(one dwelling inside the other)
People tell me that "your father will never die as long as you're alive" I look just like him!
Are we really acceping by faith or credulity?
If you accept a piece of information,do you discard all else because you have already made up your mind?
---1st_cliff on 4/30/13


One last thing to think about
Is a tree a living thing?
Is a leaf on a tree a living thing?
Is a corn of wheat a living thing?

Christ thought so!
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Now God told everyone!
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Is it also still alive after you eat it?
Is not the life more than meat?
Yes, it is isn't it!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/30/13


Cliff, I have been away and didn't get a chance to answer your question.

The confusion is all yours.

Do I have to prove to you that Jesus is human? Surely not. But He was not just human as Scripture says: Colossians 2:9 in Jesus "the whole fullness of deity (Spirit) dwells bodily" Hebrews 1:3 Jesus the exact representation of God's being. Philippians 2:6 Jesus, in very nature God. Jesus said "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father." God is Spirit, not another body. No problem for God to Join the two. It is just for us to accept what Scripture says, by faith.
---Warwick on 4/30/13


"Adam was not created to die!" 1stCliff

Seriously, where do you get all this from? Most definitely not from the Holy Bible. So, if not from the Holy Bible, there can only then be one other source - from the father of lies.

"The resurrection takes place on earth. Open your mind to reality!"

Again, seriously? On earth? Boy, Peter must then be speaking nonsense when he prophesied in 2 Peter 3 about the destruction of this earth when Christ returns. See how foolish your doctrines are? You get resurrected on earth only for Christ to destroy it when He returns. What kind of salvation do you preach? I'll tell you - DEATH!
---christan on 4/30/13


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1Cliff, why would God have to tell Adam the whole plan of God? It took centuries for the people to get where they are and learn what they learn through history. God did not have to tell Adam of the resurrection, heaven, even hell, to someone who could not keep one command. He gave him a command that God knew he would disobey. God is God who is Omniscience. He knows all things, He is not stupid like many here. Adam couldn't keep the one command God gave him, why explain all of Scripture about heaven and the resurrection to someone who could not keep one command? All you want to do is argue against the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 4/30/13


Its nice to think, but nowhere does say Adam was created not to die.
In fact God told him on the day you eat there of you will die. Kind of a heads up!

Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did Adam die in that day? Doesnt look that way, right!
Gen_5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Because, he was removed from Eden!

If Eden was the earth or on the earth, he should have died in the day of that day
Almost made a thousand just seventy years short
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/29/13


How does one get to heaven?

LOVE...

genuine love towards God and towards others. All the commandments and laws of the bible hang upon that one word. It is your only ticket to heaven. But, of course, it must be applied love. It is simple to simply say, "I love you", but it carries more weight when you apply that love.
---Steveng on 4/29/13


Another nonsenical idea is that New Jerusalem is a "literal" city.really? 1500 miles square and 1500 miles high? Like the space station is only 300 miles up,yep, that's what it says!
I doubt that anything in Revelation is literal!
---1st_cliff on 4/29/13


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Adam was not created to die!
1st_cliff

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Many dont find it strange that God say these words.
Because they believe Adam and Eve were created not to die!

Why would God say:
Lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.
Sounds like they would die!

Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Still many believe Eden was earth.
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/29/13


Christian, Well OK since you don't "get it".
Genesis #1 laid out God's original purpose to have an earth filled with humans tending this planet! Adam was not created to die! Death came only as a penalty for disobedience!
God has not changed His mind. People were not created to live in heaven!
The resurrection takes place on earth. Open your mind to reality!
---1st_cliff on 4/29/13


Yes, Christan . . . in case this is what you're getting at > Heaven's New Jerusalem will come to earth (Revelation 21:2) and be down on the new earth > the earth corruptible will have been "delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (in Romans 8:21)

So, as you might mean, this whole earth will be delivered into the resurrectional glory that we will be in, and therefore the earth will spiritual in "the glorious liberty" of God's children, as you say?
---willie_c: on 4/29/13


1stCliff, you're truly amazing. You plant your corrupted thoughts into what others do not say and that's because it's already taken root in your own heart.

For eg, when did I say, "God said to Adam,if you're really good someday I'll take you to heaven,huh? OR You're giving the credit to satan for winning the battle of earth so that God had to make a new plan."? These are your own words, not mine. What has all these nonsense you are spewing to do with my reply to you?

I was simply pointing out to you your error that when Scripture says "new earth and heaven", it's going to be spiritual entity and not as what we see today "where moth and rust doth corrupt". Understand?
---christan on 4/28/13


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Faith without works is dead. Mark 16 v 16, Acts 2 v 38 Fulfills Matt. 28 v 19, Matt. 24 v 13.
---Lawrence on 4/29/13


Jed, you say,

"It is all an act of God," then turn around and say, "BUT requires 100% participation on the part of an individual.
How can it be all an act of God, and then say,
"But requires 100% participation on the part of the individual?"
then it's not all an act of God, but sinful man and God. In one sentence you claim salvation is an act of God "but" only if sinful man allows Him. If sinful man does not allow Him, then it is not an act of God, it is an act of sinful man if he wants. Why is it so hard for you to give the glory to God?
---Mark_V. on 4/29/13


Gordon, you say,
"If you're certain, like Mark V, that you are one of GOD's "Elect" who were "only created to be Saved", with absolutely no say on your part,"
Do you not believe you are saved? If you are, then you too are one of the elect. Don't be mad at us for bringing the Truth. We did not do the election, God did. You believe it is better to have men choose God than to have God choose men. And so you take the ultimated decision, as to who will be saved, out of the hands of God and place it in the hands of sinful men, who must then make a choice themselves, and thereby you make man the point-of beginning and ending, the alpha and omega of his own salvation. Is that not humanism? enmity against God?
---Mark_V. on 4/29/13


1st_cliff if what you're saying is true.
Can you tell me why God put the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil there?

Gen_2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I mean if it wasn't in his original plan for man.
Is not everything ordained by God!

You're saying Christian is as misguided as Mark.
Yet you fail to see, all things were made by him!

Aren't you the one saying Satan's interfered with God's plan?
Satan's interference! Yes, I believe you are!
Peace
---TheSeg on 4/28/13


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Christian, You're as misguided as Mark:
According to your concept, God said to Adam,if you're really good someday I'll take you to heaven,huh?
Fill the earth and rule it.
was the original plan for man.
You're giving the credit to satan for winning the battle of earth so that God had to make a new plan.
Satan's interference was just a little bump in the road, God's will will be done and man will inhabit earth forever as was first intended!
---1st_cliff on 4/28/13


1stCliff, if according to you MarkV is misguided, you then must be deluded when you quote Matthew 5:5 and gave us your understanding of that verse and then tell us "Earth is man's home not heaven".

From thy words, you have no understanding to what Christ meant in Matthew 5:5. God's promise to His people is eternal life in Jesus, not this earth we now dwell in, which is corrupt in sin and will be destroyed when Christ returns to judge.

The "new heaven and earth" is eternal and not a physical dwelling place, where time, space and matter exist.
---christan on 4/27/13


of course...everything is an act of God. So, is not "going to heaven". God is the Creator.

When I was a child, my father made it possible for me to have shelter and food and love through his own labor. When I grew a little older, not quite a man, he never forced me to come home.
---aka on 4/27/13


"How does one get to heaven?" Through Jesus. Jhn 14:6> Jhn 10:9>Jhn 10:1
"does a person have to be smarter then another?" No. 2Cr 3:5>Gal 6:3
"do all man have faith in Jesus Christ and can use it if they want or not?" No. Gal 5:22>Jud 1:19>Rom 8:9
"Or is it all an act of God?" It [is] all an act of God. Jon 2:9>Psa 3:8>Eph 2:8
---josef on 4/28/13


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1Cliff, you gave the same answer,
"Mar V, Misguided because you try to say God has changed his mind about humans populating and inhabiting the earth."
Are we not populating earth right now? Are you speaking from another planet? He spoke and we did. How did He change His mind? God knows all things and controls all things, even the sins of man. There is nothing or no one, especially sinful man, who is more powerful then God.
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist." (Col. 1:16,17).
---Mark_V. on 4/28/13


God's Word, says no one can live up to God's standard of righteousness. Rom 3:10, 3:23, Rom 6:23
Everyone deserves death, but God gives eternal life.
To be saved, we must believe the gospel,"good news". before we can believe, we have to know what it is.
1 Cor 15:1-4
how does believing this gospel save us? Rom 5:8-9 Rom 3:22-26

we are justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. Eph 2:8-9
We can't be saved by our own righteousness, only by God's grace, through faith.
Eph 1:13-14 "

Once we believe the gospel, we are sealed with God's Holy Spirit. This is God's deposit, that guarantees he will redeem us, whom our Lord "purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28).
---michael_e on 4/27/13


It is all an act of God, BUT requires 100% participation on the part of an individual. It's like going to a nice ball. The host is the one that made it all possible, but you will miss out on the ball if you ignore the invitation and choose not to go. Our host will not force anyone, neither will He prevent anyone from coming, but the invitation is extended to all equally, if you CHOOSE to accept it. But the choice is yours.
---Jed on 4/27/13


Mar V, Misguided because you try to say God has changed his mind about humans populating and inhabiting the earth.
Before he made earth he had a hundred million angels in heaven,He did not create humans for the purpose of populating heaven.

If you are fortunate enough your resurrection will take place on earth not up in the sky! Jn.5.28.
---1st_cliff on 4/27/13


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"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

The Holy Spirit is Heaven's Spirit of Heaven's own love. In order to "get to Heaven", we need this love "in our hearts" making us like Jesus so we have "hope" of being with Him and compatible with Him as our Groom >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17) So, our reason for "boldness in the day of judgment" is how now Heaven's love in us has made us "as He is" "in this world."
---willie_c: on 4/27/13


only through Jesus. What we do will not get us there. only accepting Jesus as our savior. however to stay in this race of life we must not stray off the narrow path and we must daily walk following Jesus.
---womandisciple on 4/27/13


How does one get to heaven?
---Mark_V. on 4/27/13
Take a right turn, and go strait that is how you get to heaven
---francis on 4/27/13


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