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Scripture For A Papacy

What is the Scriptural validation for the Papacy?

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 ---Gordon on 4/30/13
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Richard C, I don't think Francis is going to answer you on this topic. So, you might want to address someone else.

I will be happy to answer you.
No where in the Bible doesn't it say there is a 'sinner's prayer' for Salvation, but many still practice this form of entrance to Jesus.

The question is do you believe people are alive in Heaven or not? Rev 6:9-11 is very telling in the fact that martyrs are looking at events on earth in real time and fussing at God.

Why can't I ask for their assistance? They are looking at me right now.
You can ask people on earth for help. I choose to be more careful, and ask those in Heaven for requests to Jesus.

It is all directed to Jesus.
The ROUTE is the only difference.
---Nikki on 5/12/13


Nikki, I agree with what you said, you can confess your sins to anyone you want. You can confess them to Mary, Joseph or Paul. In fact you can do whatever your heart desires. You can bend your knees to any saint, and worship whoever you want. I do not believe anyone is trying to stop you from doing what you are doing already. All everyone is doing is giving you the Truth. Only God answers prayers, that is Truth. Mary is not a mediator between the Church and Jesus Christ. For no sinner can be a mediator. And she was a sinner by her own words. But you have every right to do what you want. It's your life and your soul. You can never say no one told you. We are called to correct those who are wrong. What you do with what we say is totally up to you.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/13


Francis on 5/11/13 - Pray one for another - Yes that is being said - Scripture does say to pray to one another, That's here on Earth to One other ! But Nowhere in the Bible mentions asking someone in heaven to pray for them,or any one in heaven praying for any body on earth.

HEBREWS 7:25 - Where he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto god By Him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

( Jesus Christ has made the intercession , Not Mary or The Saints )
---RICHARDC on 5/11/13


FRANCIS, NOOOOOO, DON'T GO!
OKAY, it was fun as well. see ya.

Don't forget to pray for us who wish to continue in the good fight.
---Nikki on 5/11/13


Thank you, Grandma for promising not to debate me anymore. I don't care if you think I am not a Scripture Scholar, evil or whatever.

As long as you stop telling falsehood on the Catholic Church.

By the way,
How can a devoted Catholic not know the Immaculate Conception is in December?
As TheSeg says "I just saying."

I shall sing that great Baptist song 'The battle is over the Victory is won'
Or 'Jesus has won the battle the victory is ours'

Since I am not a Baptist, I really don't know the name of the song.
No matter, Jesus knows what I am singing.
---Nikki on 5/11/13




This is my last post in this subject. It has been fun, and good, well mannered and well carried out thanks to everyone.
good question by Gordon:

The next time you hear about men ministry, women ministry, youth ministry, ask yourself, where is the scriptural validation for any of these

Remember, the church can create any ministry, appoint any ministerial leader to carry out the work of God, as long as it does not interfere with the law of God.

See the ordination of deacons ( table waiters in acts 6)is there no scriptural validation for it?

let us as a church remember that we should " set in order the things that are wanting,Titus 1:5"

Love you guys
grandma, nikki, RICHARDC, Gordon, and the rest
---francis on 5/11/13


Nikki: I'm not making the rules. God is. I totally understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. I was a devout Catholic. I have studied God's Word for the past 37 years. I also did a study comparing the teachings of the Catholic Church with Scripture.

The book of Jude discusses false teachers. It's obvious you are one such person posting on a Christian forum with your unBiblical teachings. Therefore, I will not debate you any longer. I will post what the Truth of God's Word teaches.
---Grandma on 5/11/13


Nikki I want to say thank you for your statement about those who speak in tongues not being evil. I have seen far too many who have demonized tongues and tried to make those who speak in them evil. It is heartbreaking to see people judge their brothers and sisters in Christ as evil when they don't even know those people. Again thank you and God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 5/11/13


Nikki, Not all Protestant pastors are saved believers. They're as ignorant of Spiritual things as you are.
no verse in Scripture teaches doing penance for absolution.---Grandma


Absolution is given before the penance is done.

Isn't Priests or Clergy part of the one another?
Why do you think you get to make the rules.
So, I can confess my sins to my next door neighbor, but God forbid, not my Priest???
COME ON, GRANDMA, that doesn't make any sense.

So, now you have to be knowledgeable about spiritual things to be Saved?
That's news to Jesus.
What do you mean not all Protestant Pastors are not saved?? Isn't that between God and the Pastor. How do you know they are not Saved?

Aren't you not Judging?
---Nikki on 5/11/13


---Grandma on 5/11/13
physically dead as opposed to?
---francis on 5/11/13




Nikki, Not all Protestant pastors are saved believers. They're as ignorant of Spiritual things as you are. The Evangelical pastors and believers I've been blessed to know never have said that the deceased are looking down on us from heaven.

Francis: Your Scripture verses support having living believers intercede in prayer, not to pray to people who are physically dead. Also, we are to confess to one another, not a priest, or ordained clergy. And, no verse in Scripture teaches doing penance for absolution.
---Grandma on 5/11/13


Here is my personal favourite:


Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried,

Some use this text as proof that the dead are conscious in paradise

If this is true, Mary is also conscious.

If you use all the text that protestants use to say that they dead are with Christ
( absent from the body, present with the lord, the souls under the alter, Abraham's bosom) Then Mary in heaven should have the same rights and privileged as the rich man in hades,and make petition for those on earth
---francis on 5/11/13


Grandma, you can't get more physical than eating.
Jesus ate after He died on the cross.
He still had the marks on His Hands for Thomas to believe in Him.

Plus in Revelation, if they were given robes to wear it means they were Physical.
They are Spiritual as well because they are watching people on earth and fussing to God for vengeance.

I am not asking you to believe, I am asking you not to accuse me of doing something evil when you don't understand yourself.

I don't understand those who speak in tongue.
But, my not understanding doesn't mean those people are doing evil acts.
---Nikki on 5/11/13


what amuses me about protestants is that when you go to their funerals, the dead is always said to be in heaven looking down at us. No protestant pastor ever says that the dead is in his grave at a funeral.---francis on 5/10/13

How true!
As a Hospice Nurse, I heard many Protestant Pastors consoling them saying how the person is happy looking at them. 'The person is holding some other person who died before them.'

He speaks of the dead person as being active in Heaven.
Not just praising God, but moving around greeting other people who had died years ago.

Good point Francis, I forgot.
---Nikki on 5/11/13


1 TIMOTHY 2:5 - For there is One God, And One Mediator between God and men , the man Christ Jesus.
---RICHARDC on 5/10/13

James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men,
---francis on 5/11/13


\\As for your Revelation passage, I see nothing there that supports your evil idea that you should pray to the dead already in heaven.---Grandma on 5/10/13\\

That's because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. No wonder you can't see this.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/11/13


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Nikki: read 1 Timothy 2:5 to see why I call your prayer to those who physically are dead evil.

When I referred to the 'dead already in heaven' I was talking about physical death, not Spiritual.

As for Revelation, I am not a Bible school graduate. I can't see how that passage has to do with prayer to "saints.'

Francis: I've never been to a Christian funeral where anyone said the deceased was looking down on us from heaven. They were referred to as being in the presence of The Lord. I've also never heard anyone refer to Mary as less than any other believer in Christ. She did die physically.
---Grandma on 5/11/13


As for your Revelation passage, I see nothing there that supports your evil idea that you should pray to the dead already in heaven.---Grandma on 5/10/13

NO ONE IS DEAD IN HEAVEN, that is our point!!!

Please explain the passage of Rev 6:9-11
If you can't explain the passage THEN SAY SO.

How is praying to godly men and women evil?
Are you saying these people are evil?

Just because you don't have a broad sense of understanding of the word 'prayer' doesn't mean I don't.

GO WATCH PBS and listen. You will hear the word 'pray' in a sentence while no one is praying to God.
---Nikki on 5/10/13


what amuses me about protestants is that when you go to their funerals, the dead is always said to be in heaven looking down at us. No protestant pastor ever says that the dead is in his grave at a funeral. they believe that the souls are departed and are with God ( absent from the body present with the lord)

But when it comes to Mary, protestants just say that Mary is dead.

Why is Mary the only Christian not in heaven looking down at us?
---francis on 5/10/13


Francis on - 5/9/13 - Ask Mary Mother of God to pray for you, since she be always with her Son.

1 TIMOTHY 2:5 - For there is One God, And One Mediator between God and men , the man Christ Jesus.
---RICHARDC on 5/10/13


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Scripture regarding the papacy:

Daniel 7:8
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

v.25 And he (the little horn) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
---jason9835 on 5/11/13


Samuel, all the passages you gave had to do with the resurrection of the physical body that will rise at the Second Coming. This has nothing to do with spiritual things, this is about the physical body which died. The flesh. Man also has a spirit and a soul. Without Christ the spirit is dead. With Christ the spirit comes alive to Christ. When Jesus came He had a body, spirit and soul. All man have a body spirit and soul. When we speak of spirit we are speaking of spiritual things. Not carnal. When God makes us alive to Christ, we are spiritually alive to Christ. Not the physical body. Eph. 2:4-10. While alive today as believers, our prayers are spiritual, our salvation is spiritual, we walk in the Spirit, and baptized in the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/13


Nikki: I based what I said about those who are in heaven on Scripture.

As for your Revelation passage, I see nothing there that supports your evil idea that you should pray to the dead already in heaven.
---Grandma on 5/10/13


Grandma, when did God die and leave you in charge??

Nikki: Those who are in heaven have one job, and only one job. To give all praise, honor and glory to the Lord Jesus in worship. They won't have time to listen to any supposed prayers of anyone here on Earth, assuming they can hear us at all.---Grandma on 5/10/13

How do you know what goes on in Heaven.

Just explain Rev 6:9-11
---Nikki on 5/10/13


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francis: What on earth does that passage, from Revelation, have to do with the evil practice of praying to "Saints?"

Over and over, Scripture says we're supposed to pray to God, in Jesus name. It also says we, here on Earth, are to pray for one another. I know of NO Scripture that says we're to pray to anybody who has gone home to heaven before us. Your Revelation passage does not indicate such praying should be practiced by believers.

Believers have the Holy Spirit living within them. Why pray to those who are in heaven, assuming they're there.
---Grandma on 5/10/13


Grandma on 5/10/13

explain

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
---francis on 5/10/13


Nikki: Those who are in heaven have one job, and only one job. To give all praise, honor and glory to the Lord Jesus in worship. They won't have time to listen to any supposed prayers of anyone here on Earth, assuming they can hear us at all.
---Grandma on 5/10/13


Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
Act 17:18

These passages on the same topic do not seem to agree with your understanding of words that are not in the verse.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/10/13


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Samuel, in the passages you gave in Matt. 23:29-32) Jesus is talking about the resurrection of the body. The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, only the Pharisees, another thing they did not believe in angels. So Jesus explanation about marriage spoke of both. First there would be no one given in marriage in heaven, they would be like the angels. Jesus was exposing two things they did not believe. God is not the God of the dead, which indicates that those who are born of the Spirit, they have been spiritually resurrected since they were made spiritually alive, and are baptized into the body of Christ (Eph. 2:4-10). The resurrection of the Spirit has happen already for those in Christ 1 Cor. 12:13.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/13


Nikki: "GOD CAN DO ANYTHING."

He cannot lie! (Tit 1:2)

He inspired these words:

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished, neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.



---jerry6593 on 5/10/13


Jed, I suppose Nikki did not get it when you said people who died are not omnipresent in heaven and at the same time here listening to prayers. Or maybe they are in heaven listening to prayers from those on earth, and so become mediators between the church and Christ as Mary is? And also Paul and Peter and John and so on. They must have some office in heaven, where they seat and listen to prayers from everyone on earth. And instead of passing them to the Lord, they just go ahead and answer the prayers themselves.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/13


I don't believe that people who are in heaven can see and hear us, or our prayers.--Jed on 5/9/13

Omnipresent means being present everywhere at the same time.
What does that have to do with people in Heaven looking down at us?
We are not saying the people in Heaven are also in Russia, Iran, Texas, New York, Space, Mars and Moon all at the same time.

I can Skype my dear friend in India, and I am sitting in my home in Alabama.

So, let me understand you. God can give mankind the means to use Skype, seeing someone across the world in real time, but NOT FROM HEAVEN??

GOD CAN DO ANYTHING.
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean He can't do something.
LET HIM BE GOD, and you the creature.
---Nikki on 5/9/13


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They cannot be both in heaven and on earth at the same time.---Jed on 5/9/13

Read Rev 6:9 again.
They are in Heaven, and WATCHING people on earth.
TWO SETS OF PEOPLE.

The Ones in Heaven are the ones fussing at God and wearing white robes.

The ones on earth are being killed.

They are not the same ones. The ones in Heaven were killed earlier. That's why God gives them white robes. The ones on earth will get their white robes after they are killed. Then they will join the ones in Heaven.
That is why God is telling the ones in Heaven to be patience.
---Nikki on 5/9/13


HE is just as near to us down here on Earth as with all of HIS Saints. So, we can petition each other, on the Earth.---Gordon

Think about what you just said? You don't want me to petition anyone in Heaven who is looking at God's face. But, you want me to have someone on earth to petition for me who I don't know the state of that person's soul.

That doesn't make any sense.
I know the ones in Heaven are Saved. I don't know if you are truly Saved? Only God knows the state of your soul.

Why does it brother you so much for me to ask people in Heaven for petition instead of people on earth?
Please tell me.
---Nikki on 5/9/13


Francis, that's where you're wrong. I don't believe that people who are in heaven can see and hear us, or our prayers. I already clarified, they are not omnipresent. They cannot be both in heaven and on earth at the same time. Not even Angels, demons, or Satan is omnipresent. Only God is omnipresent. That is why he can hear everyone's prayers and thoughts.
---Jed on 5/9/13


This is the most facinating blog of all time

Lots of critics of the RCC, yet the same critics hold the same doctrines to be true

1: believe that the soul is immortal and that the soul goes to be with God at death, adn can hear and see us ( is so it may be worth your while to ask Mary Mother of God to pray for you since she would be always with her Son)

Most churches have mens leaders, womens leadersm yoth leaders, and for your baptist president of the southern baptist coneference, yet have issues with the pope.

Most of you should just go back to the RCC and stop being prodical christians
---francis on 5/9/13


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Francis and Nikki, Or how about having the Faith of just believing that GOD is as close to you as HE can be by HIS indwelling Holy Spirit, so that it isn't so "necessary" to petition the "closer-to-GOD Saints up in Heaven". HE is just as near to us down here on Earth as with all of HIS Saints. So, we can petition each other, on the Earth.
---Gordon on 5/9/13


Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

The problem with quoting a scripture out of context is that it can be used to prove something it is not teaching. JESUS was saying there is a resurrection from the dead. Not that the dead are still alive in another form.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/9/13


francis, you said,

"Some churches take this as meaning the dead in heaven are able to see what happens on earth and petition God"

there is no one dead in heaven. They are alive in heaven. Did you not read Eph. 2:4-7)? He made us alive together with Christ and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
The physical body might be dead on the ground, but we are alive together with Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/9/13


--Grandma on 5/8/13
--Jed on 5/8/13

be careful what you post.
This text:
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

will come back to bite you
Check you church's interpretation of this text

Some churches take this as meaning the dead in heaven are able to see what happens on earth and petition God
---francis on 5/9/13


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\\I'm not arguing with live human beings interceding and praying (to God) for each other. We're talking about dead people (now spirits) interceding for the living.\\
---Jed on 5/8/13

half your problem is that you think people in heaven are dead.

not arguing about live human beings? As if God is the God of the dead ?? - Luke 20:38
---James_L on 5/9/13


Grandma, Scripture shows dead man in heaven LOOKING at US on EARTH, and FUSSING at God for taking His time in avenging their death. They are given robes. God tells them to wait for more death on earth.

Revelation 6:9-11 He broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. They cried out in a loud voice, "How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?" Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been.
---Nikki on 5/9/13


I have asked others to pray for me and I have prayed for others. Buut I have never prayed for others to pray for me. For I only pray to GOD. It does not seem right to just say the same words over and over after all JESUS said. Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

I speak to GOD. Some of my problems seem to always be the same. But I am talking to my Daddy. He would not want me to just repeat a set of words over and over.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/9/13


I do not believe my deceased father and brothers are praying for me in heaven. They are bowing down and worshiping the Lord face to face. They're giving Him all glory, honor and praise, IN HIS PRESENCE. They don't make petition on my behalf. I have friends here who do that for me. I know of NO Scripture that says the dead petition on behalf of the living.

Second, my church is an independent, Baptist church. We don't answer to any denomination. We don't have a president. All money collected in our offering stays in our building, for the operation of our church, to preach the Gospel, and build up the body.
---Grandma on 5/8/13


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Jed, one human can, should and MUST interceed for another in prayer:

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men,
---francis on 5/8/13


I agree with that and I'm not arguing with live human beings interceding and praying (to God) for each other. We're talking about dead people (now spirits) interceding for the living. That can't happen. My living brother can pray for me. My dead grandmother can not. We are not to try to communicate with the dead. They would not be able to hear us anyways since they are not omnipresent. Only God can hear our prayers (unless there are other people in the room and we are praying out loud).
---Jed on 5/8/13


I am not catholic. My church, like many others have a president, elected by men. So I do not see why anyone whold look at the mote in the eye of teh RCC and not see the beam in thiers. Where is the scripture for president?

Second protestant make the same claim as RCC that those who died in Christ are with with him (absent from the body presnt with the lord)
Also make the claim that those who die can see and hear and are praying for those on earth (souls under the altar). So why look at the mote in the eye of the RCC when they petition mary to pray for them, when you already believe that this is possible and happens?

Examine your own beliefs, then do what the RCC does exercise FAITH in your beliefs
---francis on 5/8/13


nikki, why do you pray to someone just because they are with the Lord. why don't you pray directly to Him. ---shira4368 on 5/8/13

Because they are looking at Are you claiming you never prayed for anyone, or asked someone to pray for you?

Francis answered this question:
James 5:16 pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

Thank you but I say the Lord's prayer at least 15 times a day.
---Nikki on 5/8/13


francis, how do you know God isn't talking about all the innocent lives snuffed out in the name of abortion. how do you know what innocent blood is especially since you don't understand spiritual things.
---shira4368 on 5/8/13


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---Jed on 5/8/13
one human can, should and MUST interceed for another in prayer:

1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men,

They are RESTING FROM THEIR EARTHLY LABORS. They have Heavenly things to do now. ---Gordon on 5/8/13

LOL that is funny
Since when Is prayer labour?
Are they in too much labour to pray for us.

Rev 6:9 I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

LOL LOL LOL
---francis on 5/8/13


Does not matter. If I ask you to pray for me, am i also praying to you?

If you truely have faith, that those who have died are in heaven with Jesus, then who better to pray for you than those physically closer to Jesus?
---francis on 5/8/13


First, speaking face to face to a live human being is not the same as speaking with dead people or with spirits. Communication with spirits is called praying. We are not to try to communicate with the dead, or with any spirit other than God's spirit. Secondly, Jesus is our intercessor to God, not Mary. Thirdly, Mary is not Holy. Only God is holy. Mary was a regular human being with human flaws and human sins.
---Jed on 5/8/13


Francis, Why not make the efforts, and invest the time needed, to involve the Saints who are living on Earth today to be Prayer partners and intercessors for you and with you, instead? Get the Church on Earth active! GOD wants that HIS Church on Earth be a Body as one. The Earthly work of the Saints who are now in Heaven is completed for them. They are RESTING FROM THEIR EARTHLY LABORS. They have Heavenly things to do now. They have done what GOD called for them to do on Earth. We ought to focus on engaging the Saints on Earth in GOD's Ministry Work here on Earth.
---Gordon on 5/8/13


I am curios, are you a Lady or a Man? You don't have to answer if you wish.
---Nikki on 5/8/13

i man
---francis on 5/8/13


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nikki, why do you pray to someone just because they are with the Lord. why don't you pray directly to Him. please read the Lord's prayer in matthew 6:9. the first words are...(Our Father which art in heaven.) the bible tells us to pray in that manner.
---shira4368 on 5/8/13


One of the meanings is 'petition.' Petitioning is praying.
---Trish on 5/7/13
Does not matter. If I ask you to pray for me, am i also praying to you?

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death, amen."

This looks more like a request for Mary to pray, than praying to Mary.

James 5:16 pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

If you truely have faith, that those who have died are in heaven with Jesus, then who better to pray for you than those physically closer to Jesus?

Faith without works and all that you know...
---francis on 5/8/13


Francis, Scroll down to read the dictionary definition of the word 'pray.' One of the meanings is 'petition.' Petitioning is praying.
---Trish on 5/7/13


If this is true, why not exercise your faith and petition those in the presence of God to pray for you?
Absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. right
---francis on 5/7/13

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!

If I could see you I would kiss you.

That is the reason why Catholic prefer to pray to Saints and Mary in heaven because they are right there face to face with God.

Maybe petition would be an easier word for most on CN to heard.

You are Good!

I am curios, are you a Lady or a Man? You don't have to answer if you wish.
---Nikki on 5/8/13


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I was taught to pray to Mary.
---Grandma on 5/7/13

Not to pray to Mary, but to petition Mary to pray for you

Now here is the catch!!!

Most protestants believe that once you die, you go strait to be with God in heaven, Some are claiming that the soul is immortal and goes to be with God in heaven and retains full memory and can see us

If this is true, why not exercise your faith and petition those in the presence of God to pray for you?
Absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. right
---francis on 5/7/13


Grandma, I know you can make a MISTAKE. The Assumption of Mary is August 15th. December 8th it was the Immaculate Conception which you were out of school.

You are correct about putting flowers on the statue of Mary.
BUT, NO ONE TOLD YOU TO WORSHIP MARY OR THE SAINTS. NO ONE!!!

As for the word 'pray', I will give you an example.
You might praise your children for their good grades at school. You also praise God at Church.
Am I saying you are praising both at the same DEGREE of honor? No.

Just because you have one meaning for praying it doesn't mean I have the same meaning.

Why can't you accept that?

I think the word 'bad' is negative. My Niece uses that SAME word with positive and negative meanings.
---Nikki on 5/7/13


I must at this time ask:
why is it that all protestant churches have a leadeer, some have president of convention or conferences, but the RCC is not allowed to have a leader (POPE).

Where in the bible do you find scripture for: Youth leader, sunday school and sunday school leader, mens ministry leader, women ministry leader, president of conference or church?

It is not a little but hypocritical to say that there is no scripture for Pope, when protestants have many " ministries" for which there are no scripture?
---francis on 5/7/13


Nikki, the form of English I am using, for the words pray and worship, is the English I learned to use in Catholic school. I was taught to pray to Mary. We had Holy Days off from school, including November 1st, All Saints Day, and a day in December, for the Assumption of Mary. In May, small wreaths of flowers were placed on the statues of Mary in our classrooms. As a teenager, a priest gave me "Hail Marys" to pray for penance, so that she could help me stay pure.

I was taught all of that in Catholic school, and in the Catholic church. Prayer and worship to the saints, especially Mary.
---Grandma on 5/7/13


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Nikki:
pray
1. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of
worship).---Grandma on 5/7/13

Grandma, are you chasing me?
Just joking.

Again, which English are you talking about?
JamesL, even gave you an example.

300 years from now, we will not be using the same English.

Your form of English isn't the only kind you know.
---Nikki on 5/7/13


A deacon guilty of murder could be absolved for twenty crowns. So is the history of the RCC.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/13

You left something out.

So is the history of the RCC, ACCORDING TO MARKV.

Bishop Sheen said:

There isn't a handful of people who hate the Catholic Church.
But there are millions who hate what they PERCEIVE is the Catholic Church.

You are one of a million,
Peace
---Nikki on 5/7/13


Nikki, Jesus knows what He is talking about, it's the RCC that does not know or want to know what Jesus was talking about. Peter in his life was never a pope. He was to follow Christ, yet Christ never said for believers to follow Peter and the popes, He said to follow Him. When the Universal Church came to be, the RCC, Popes, then were appointed Head of the Church, who also had wives, many times many wives. They also had concubines. They had the keys also to the brothels. The paying of annates, that is, one year's income from the living, they accumilated tithes and amassed immense wealth from various absolutions. A deacon guilty of murder could be absolved for twenty crowns. So is the history of the RCC.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/13


---Samuelbb7 on 5/7/13
The pope is the bishop of Rome, Which Peter was.

I am not opposed to a pope, or office of Pope. Most churches have a president, and we cannot find one scripture for president.

I am opposed to the doctrines, not the offices

By the way, did you know that there is no command from God to ordain deacons in ACts 6?
The church is empowered to ordain offices and officers to carry out the mission of God, as long as these offices do not contradict the doctrine sof God.

Youth leaders, men ministry leaders, women ministry leaders none of these are based on any positive bible command, yet are found in all churches

Anti Pope seems to be a beam in the eye, mote in the eye thing
---francis on 5/7/13


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Nikki:

worship
1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4.the object of adoring reverence or regard.

pray

1. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of
worship).
---Grandma on 5/7/13


Maybe there is a good reason to ban it
---Peter9556 on 5/6/13
The original reason for not having married priest is divorce, and distribution of property after the divorce.
---francis on 5/7/13


Well Francis it was Paul who wrote the letters you mentioned. That would make Paul the example of the Pope. But the RCC is based on it being Peter not Paul. So their foundation is wrong. Secondly the RCC maintains that the position is Holy. But the person does not have to be. Whereas the Bible says the leader must live in the will of GOD.

Lastly the RCC outlawed the equals to the Pope in the Great Schiam. The Orthodox churches have just as much claim to being the true church as the RCC does.

But I believe the true church is based on the Word of GOD and the relation of each believer to JESUS the true head of the church.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/7/13


Now here, Nikki, I will have to disagree slightly, though usually I agree with you, using 1 Tim 3:2 'Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,' - the work 'overseer' in Greek is the same word as the word for a bishop, and the idea then was that a bishop at least COULD be married.

In 1 Cor 9:5, Paul comments about the others, including Peter, taking a believing wife (the same as in Matt 8:14??????) so Peter was also married later in his ministry

I just mean that the apostles COULD get married.

I do NOT say that the RCC is definitely wrong in banning it, I just say that it was allowed earlier

Maybe there is a good reason to ban it
---Peter9556 on 5/6/13


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Francis, Didn't you get the memo?

The RCC isn't ALLOWED to be like any other state, thing, denomination or whatever.
---Nikki on 5/6/13


Acts 7:38 This is he( MOSES), that was in the church in the wilderness...

Exodus 18:25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
...the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.

2 Corinthians 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

So we should not be opposed to the idea of a Pope, be opposed to the assumed roles of the Pope not the office itself, and not the man who holds the office.

besides every denomination has a leader, a president or what have you
---francis on 5/4/13


NO scripture to prove Apostle Peter for papacy! He was married, he had a mother in law. Popes cant be married.---Lawrence on 5/3/13

Who is claiming Peter wasn't married? Many Popes were married.
Now a Pope isn't married because a Priest can't get married.

Popes are picked from Cardinals who are picked from among Bishops, who were Priests.

You had to start off as a Priest before becoming a Pope.
That is why a Pope isn't married today.
---Nikki on 5/3/13


What is the Scriptural validation for the Papacy?
---Gordon on 4/30/13
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1 Thessalonians 2:11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every ne of you, as a father doth his children,


1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren,

2 Timothy 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son

James 2:21 Abraham our father

Now it is Francis our father
God bless him
---francis on 5/3/13


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NO scripture to prove Apostle Peter for papacy! He was married, he had a mother in law. Popes cant be married. The roman cath church Rev. 17 v's 4 - 6 comes with all kinds of stuff that is NOT so, because of here 2nd. Cor. 11 v 14.
---Lawrence on 5/3/13


Jesus knows mankind very well.
That's why he left Peter in charge to strength the brothers Luke 22:32

Jesus ONLY tells Peter to "FEED MY LAMBS, TEND MY SHEEP AND FEED MY SHEEP." JOHN 21:15-19
Note at the end of v19, Jesus states "FOLLOW ME."

That suggest Peter is to take care of the sheep and lambs as the Shepherd and lead them all to Jesus. CHRUCH WITH God's chosen Leader- Pope.
Not one breakage in succession since Peter.
Jesus knows what He is talking about DOESN'T HE!
---Nikki on 5/1/13


Peter lived with real people in real life. And he was leading the church, it appears from how God used him in the meeting of the church > Acts 15. People knew who he was, without needing to have a vote.

And Paul had Timothy and Titus receiving administrative directions for how they would ordain "elders" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10, Titus 1:4-9. So, I see this was hierarchy.

However, Paul lived and walked in real life with people he ministered to > 1 Thessalonians 2:6-12. Everyday people knew him and his example personally.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) I think you need to know someone personally, in order to know his or her example (c:
---willie_c: on 4/30/13


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