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Explain Revelation 14:10-11

The old adage is true, which says, "Where there's Smoke, there is certainly Fire." So, what do the Verses of REVELATION 14:10-11 mean?

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When God wants to save someone, He does not need their permission. God doesn't ask permission.---Mark_V. on 5/30/13

Yes, He does need our permission.
There is saying:

Without God you can not.

Without you God will not.

Luke 13:34""Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how many times I yearned to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were unwilling!
---Nikki on 5/31/13


Nikki, you know little about Jesus Christ. The reason is that you have many ways into heaven. How many times have I told you you don't need Jesus Christ in your Church? You can work your way into His kingdom by been a good person. You belief its better not to hear the gospel of their salvation, because if they do and reject it, they go to hell. Or maybe purgatory to wait for someone to pay for their sins.
Let me introduce you to Jesus Christ. His very words,
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the Truth, and the life. No one come to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). You on the other hand teach that Jesus was lying or deceiving Thomas so he could doubt some more. That there is other ways into heaven.
---Mark_V. on 5/31/13


"Mark V and christan, Are you two trying to convince others, or yourselves ??" JamesL

Convince you? Is it the work of MarkV and christan to convince you? Far be from it!

"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." John 6:29, "...for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16, "...but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." John 8:43,47
---christan on 5/30/13


James, you still don't understand, u say,

"After all, is it God who converts with no rhyme or reason, or is it because you browbeat us ??"

Again,
"Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" When God wants to save someone, He does not need their permission. His Word, is the gospel of your salvation. We are saved by Grace "through faith," and that not of ourselves. We are under a New Covenant,
"Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart of flesh, that they may walk in My Statues and keep My judgments and do them, and they shall be My people, and I will be their God" God doesn't ask permission.
---Mark_V. on 5/30/13


Mark V and christan,

Are you two trying to convince others, or yourselves ??

I used to believe exactly as you do, quoting the same 8 verses out of context.

If you were actually convinced of that flimsy docrine, you would think it fruitless to keep shouting the same things at reprobates.

After all, is it God who converts with no rhyme or reason, or is it because you browbeat us ??

You don't believe your own doctrine, and you're trying to convince yourselves.

It's ok, really. I understand the anxiety you feel. I've been there

Never sure of your election, it's frightening to have no assurance.

That's why you must keep trying to assure yourself by hollering at your computer screen
---James_L on 5/30/13




James L, you proved my very point when you said,

"can you go find something to copy and paste here, so it actually makes sense?"

It will not make sense to you at all. You will continue to complain because you don't understand or believe. Here is why, and I will put it down again,

"As it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one.
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks after God"

you see the reason why you do not make sense of the Truth. I wrote it down for you and you said, it doesn't make sense.
"Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" even broke it down for you, and nada.
---Mark_V. on 5/30/13


"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse."

Someone out in the wilderness can see the many things around him to realise there indeed is a Creator. That's why Paul declares "they are without excuse".

God only gave His oracles to Israel, so does that mean the other nations are excused from knowing who God is? Far be from it, David declared, "But our God is in the heavens: He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased."
---christan on 5/29/13


nikki, I can't believe you think the catholics have spread more gospel than anyone else. why do you even believe that.(HISTORY. facts truly gets in the way doesn't it?)

none of the apostles in the new testament had mary on a higher status than mere mortal. (Nor does the RCC. It seems you think she is because you keep talking about it. Can we move on?)

mary was chosen of God to carry the Lord Jesus. after Jesus birth, she had other children.
(Not in my Bible. You made that one up. These other children had other fathers.
NO WHERE in the BIBLE does it state MARY REMARRIED. NO WHERE!)

---shira4368 on 5/29/13
---Nikki on 5/29/13


nikki, I can't believe you think the catholics have spread more gospel than anyone else. why do you even believe that. none of the apostles in the new testament had mary on a higher status than mere mortal. mary was chosen of God to carry the Lord Jesus. after Jesus birth, she had other children.
---shira4368 on 5/29/13


MarkV, no one or religious faith has spread the Gospel more than the RCC. No one.
Acts 4:12 From the first Pope.

But, if the current Pope knows after 2000 years, NOT EVERYONE has heard the GOOD NEWS YET.

So, explain what happens to those persons?


You and Christan need to mediate on the Epistle James' letter.

Mediate on it, not just read it. There is a difference.
---Nikki on 5/29/13




"NEITHER ONE came first. Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things HOPED FOR" JamesL

Really? You must have a really special bible then that says "NEITHER ONE". And talk about copy and paste, you copy and paste what you have no understanding.

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:17, "But without faith it is impossible to please him" Hebrews 11:6

"NEITHER ONE"? Spoken like a true charlatan.
---christan on 5/29/13


Mark V,

can you go find something to copy and paste here, so it actually makes sense?
---James_L on 5/29/13


James L, do beware of those who tell you the Truth. Because they will never agree with your false theology.
"Faith comes from hearing" first of all you do not have it. It comes to you from hearing. "And hearing by the word of God" Hearing has to come to you by God in order for you to hear His Word, and believe it by faith. No one lost has faith in God. They are called unbelievers because they have no faith in Jesus Works on the cross and His resurrection.
As it is written:
"There is none righteous, no, not one.
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks after God."
(Rom. 3:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 5/29/13


\\Did you receive FAITH because you believed in God's promises or did you believe in God's promises because FAITH was accounted unto you? Do tell us, which came first?\\
---christan on 5/25/13

NEITHER ONE came first.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things HOPED FOR

Faith happens TO us, when GOD works in us to convict us, enlighten us, convince us, and assure us.

Good Grief


\\Faith is believing in promises. The faith is depended on the person making the promising...
FAITH IS BELIEVING IN GOD TO KEEP HIS PROMISE.\\
---Nikki on 5/26/13

EXCELLENT ! ! !


\\watch out for the heavy hitters with baseball bats that they call scripture.\\
---aka on 5/27/13

Very wise
---James_L on 5/28/13


""salvation is received through believing a promise - FAITH" JamesL

James is correct." Nikki


Ya right. And the Bible calls you and JamesL a big fat liar. Here's why:

"...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48

That is, those who believe is because they have been chosen by God "before the foundations of the world." And because He chose them out of His love, He gives them the "gift of faith" that they will believe in His Son.

You've got the cart before the horse. How excellent!
---christan on 5/28/13


Nikki, your answers are worse. You suggest it's better to not preach the gospel this way people will go to heaven as long as they don't hear it. You say:
"God is merciful. He isn't going to send some good muslim woman to Hell because she was denied the chance to hear, or accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior." Why preach the gospel at all? Why send missionaries to be killed in hostle countries? You even suggest another way into heaven outside of Christ. Just leave the people alone, don't tell them about Christ, this way God is merciful and will save them. What kind of nonsense it that? Is that what you are taught at the RCC as a nun? I told you that your Church was abonding Jesus Christ. people are saved without Him.
---Mark_V. on 5/28/13


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Christan
1. You have to be dead be named venerable as the 1st process of sainthood.
We don't declare everyone a saint at their funeral as you all do.

2. He stated anyone who does good has the chance for Heaven. As long as Jesus isn't denied at after death when given the chance to accept Him.
God is merciful. He isn't going to send some good muslim woman to Hell because she was denied the chance to hear, or accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior.
This isn't new news.
Just new to you because you are heartless unlike Jesus.

So, now you want anyone who can't hear the Gospel to go to hell?

THANK GOD YOU ARE NOT GOD!
---Nikki on 5/27/13


Nikki, are you serious?-MarkV,

Very SERIOUS when it comes to my Lord and Savior. And you?

You know the meaning of faith is used in everyday langauge.

Faith in Jesus is not the same as faith in the pliot's knowledge and skill not to drop the plane from the sky until he is ready to land the plane on the ground.

The pliot might fail, But not Jesus.

"salvation is received through believing a promise - FAITH" JamesL

James is correct.



---Nikki on 5/27/13


FAITH IS BELIEVING IN GOD TO KEEP HIS PROMISE.
---Nikki on 5/26/13

nikki,

in Galatians 5:22-23, it lists the fruit of the Spirit, and faith is of the Spirit. it is not of man. It is something that God gives us. God brings us from faith to faith. Romans 1:17.

another fruit is gentleness and i pray that this is something that will be given to the super-christians on this site.

continue to ask, seek, and knock. and watch out for the heavy hitters with baseball bats that they call scripture.
---aka on 5/27/13


"Nikki, your most venerable Pope Francis gave this declaration: ..." christan

you are elect. why such venom?

"Nikki, Pope Francis gave this declaration: ..."

it seems that would suffice.

she cannot help her beliefs if God chose that from the beginning.
---aka on 5/27/13


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Nikki, your most venerable Pope Francis gave this declaration: "Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists."

According to him, you do not need "faith in Jesus Christ" to be saved because even the atheists who doesn't believe in Christ will be saved.

Furthermore, it was reported, "During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace."

According to your Pope, don't worry, you are saved because you don't need to have faith in Christ.
---christan on 5/27/13


Nikki, are you serious? the faith you talk about always fails. You can have faith in your wife, your son and they can fail. Faith to start your car and it can fail. We are talking about saving faith, that comes from God. It does not originate from man. "Faith comes from hearing" and "hearing by the Word of God" Without God man can never have faith in God. "Jesus Christ is the Author of our faith. "For by Grace you have been saved through faith" now hear where faith comes from "and that not of yourselves. it is a gift of God, not of works, do you know why? lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9) If faith came from man they would boast salvation came because of themselves.
---Mark_V. on 5/27/13


Did you receive FAITH because you believed in God's promises or did you believe in God's promises because FAITH was accounted unto you? Do tell us, which came first?---christan on 5/25/13

Are you serious?

If I tell you I will gladly pay you Tuesday, for a hamburger today, do you believe me?

Faith is believing in promises. The faith is depended on the person making the promising.

Everyone promises to payback a car loan.
But most banks only has FAITH in those with FICO scores of 700 or higher.

Remember Adam and Eve had faith in the snake, that they were not going to die.
Guess what? They died.

FAITH IS BELIEVING IN GOD TO KEEP HIS PROMISE.
---Nikki on 5/26/13


"salvation is received through believing a promise - FAITH" JamesL

Enlighten us a little.

Did you receive FAITH because you believed in God's promises or did you believe in God's promises because FAITH was accounted unto you? Do tell us, which came first?
---christan on 5/25/13


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ruben, please go thru the bible and you will see all the forevers, eternals and everlastings. How many times must Christ die for us?
---shira4368 on 5/25/13


Ruben, you gave me,
"And Mark a scripture you use for OSAS "For I am sure that neither death" (RM 8:35-37) can separate from Christ but now you say it does:)"
You do not understand this passage because you need to be born of the Spirit. Once you are born of the Spirit you are spiritually baptized into one body in Christ. And never to separate again, ever. Another thing, the passage is speaking to those who are believers through faith in the works of Christ on the Cross and resurrection. Only they are children of God. Once a child of God always a child of God. The others are children of wrath. But in the RCC they don't teach spirital birth. They need to do works of righteousness to get into the kindgom of God.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/13


Mark_V.* Ruben, your answers are so rediculous.

Paul tells us we are to imitate Christ, he also tell us in Hebrews 12:1 "surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses" and this is after taling about all of the OT Saints!

Jesus tell us about God " 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living." (Mt 22:29-32)

And Mark a scripture you use for OSAS "For I am sure that neither death" (RM 8:35-37) can separate from Christ but now you say it does:)

We read in Jer. 15:1 "Then the LORD said to me, "Though Moses and Samuel stood before me" These two have been long gone during the time Of Jeremiah .
---Ruben on 5/24/13


Ruben, your answers are so rediculous. Now you say that since Jesus who is God can talk to the dead, all Catholics can talk to the dead. Are all Catholics Divine? Not a chance, they are all sinners. You can talk to the dead all you want, they are not going to answer you, they are dead. Hello? Have you been at funerals? Did the dead talk to you? It is no wonder all the pagan, and heathen rituals have idols of Mary and the saints, they follow the same beliefs as many Catholics.
And again, the passage in (Rev. 5:8) does not say the saints are praying for us in heaven because they heard us.
---Mark_V. on 5/24/13


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Well Elijah never died so that is not talking to the dead. Moses was resurrected so now he is alive so that is not talking to the dead.

While I am opposed to talking to the dead that is not the main issue. Should you pray to the dead instead of praying to JESUS. Is Mary of any other saint our mediator.

Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hbr 4:14-16 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/13


Mark_V. * The passage does not say the saints are praying for us in heaven. It says the elders had harps, golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of the saints.

"Which are the prayers of the Saints" -They are presenting them to God!


Mark_V. * The RCC encourages prayer to saints, the reason they give excuses in their website. And you guys deny the worship of idols.

Is Jesus idol worshipping:

"And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli'jah, talking with him" (MT 19-14)

If Jesus can talk to the dead then it is not sinul!
---Ruben on 5/23/13


Ruben, only in your own mind does that passage say what you say.

"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).

The passage does not say the saints are praying for us in heaven. It says the elders had harps, golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of the saints. The RCC encourages prayer to saints, the reason they give excuses in their website. And you guys deny the worship of idols.
If the RCC does not allow idol worship, they would not excuse it on their website. All they had to do was say, we do not permit worshipping idols.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/13


the site says the saints are offering prayers to God for us in heaven. Suggesting they hear our prayers while in heaven. Those prayers were prayers they ask before they died. It nowhere says, they prayed for us in heaven. On (Rev. 5:8).
---Mark_V. on 5/23/13

Gee Mark but those in Heaven do hear our prayers and offer them to God!

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer, and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with THE PRAYERS OF ALL SAINTS upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
---Ruben on 5/23/13


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To Ruben,
"As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us."
the site says the saints are offering prayers to God for us in heaven. Suggesting they hear our prayers while in heaven. Those prayers were prayers they ask before they died. It nowhere says, they prayed for us in heaven. On (Rev. 5:8).
---Mark_V. on 5/23/13


Mark_V.* and in their website they give reasons why the worshipping and asking for prayers to saints are allowed.

Show me where it says worshipping to Mary is ok!!


Mark_V. * You say, Mary is the mother of God, and insist she is, and nowhere are we told in Scripture that God has a mother. We are told God is Spirit, and we should worship Him in spirit and Truth.

Mark you sound like a JW...
---Ruben on 5/22/13


Nikki, you say,
"Name one person beside Atheist, who doesn't believe they are saved by the blood of Christ? Just one person."
Your wrong. at least 75% of all who answer, say they were saved by their own free will. You say you do not worship Mary, but that must mean the rest of the Catholics do, but you do not. You say, the Catholic Church does not teach worship Mary, but the Catholic church not only permits it, but encourages it, and in their website they give reasons why the worshipping and asking for prayers to saints are allowed. You say, Mary is the mother of God, and insist she is, and nowhere are we told in Scripture that God has a mother. We are told God is Spirit, and we should worship Him in spirit and Truth.
---Mark_V. on 5/22/13


MarkV, want are you talking about? I am saying if someone states they are saved by the blood of Jesus, who can say different?

Name one person beside Atheist, who doesn't believe they are saved by the blood of Christ? Just one person.

That want I mean by let Jesus be Jesus and the rest His creation.

I tell you all I don't worship Mary, but many of you all say that I do. Can you read my mind or heart?
I tell you the RCC doesn't believe or teaches the worship of Mary. But nooop, you all still think you are judge, and state the RCC teaches worship of Mary, Saints or the idols.

I ask you to pull out of the CCC to prove your false claims, but you refuse. Because I know many would love to use the CCC as their source.
---Nikki on 5/21/13


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Nikki, you say,
"Can we let Jesus be Jesus, and the rest of us His creation?"
No one stopping Jesus from been Jesus. Who can stop God? It is when others bring heretical views into the essentials of the Christian faith that we should speak out on. The only way here to know what someone believes is by reading what they write. When you write traditions that are false we will answer. And if you are a genuine believer, you should not be offended for we should be seeking the Truth. God is going to judge the person, not the denomination. francis claims Jesus is Michael the archangel, that is not the Jesus of the Bible. We were warned in Scripture about those who would bring their false gospels. Our fight is a spiritual fight.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/13


It is strange how some people think on CN.

I know everyone here believes in the Salvation by the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ because everyone states so, except Mr. Atheist. (I think Atheist is a man)

But, there are a few on CN who make themselves Judge and Jury claiming what SOMEONE ELSE believes.

Can we let Jesus be Jesus, and the rest of us His creation?
---Nikki on 5/20/13


markv, you made an excellent point. not many on christianet believe in salvation by the blood of the Lamb. we are not saved by commandments, we are saved by the grace of God. none of us are worthy and none of us are saints. I am just thankful God made a way for me to be saved even tho I am nothing. now I am a child of the King.
---shira4368 on 5/20/13


Testament. Reading the laws given to Israel. We have left you behind,
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13
LOL LOL
are you sure that you are not the one who is left bnehind, like in first grade?

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

see the same laws are those god puts in our hearts
---francis on 5/20/13


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Revelation 14:7 Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 31:13 my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
---francis on 5/20/13


Heretical francis, you are in the Old Testament. Reading the laws given to Israel. We have left you behind, like the story left behind. God promised a better covenant. You are speaking and giving commands given to Israel under the covenant of obedience. Break one, and you have broke them all. You are not getting any discernment from the Spirit. Oh, I forgot human beings you say have no spirit. Oh, I forgot, to you Jesus is the archangel Michael. Oh, I forgot, at death the soul stops existing. Yet, the soul is the person and he is asleep.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


Exodus 31:13 my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign ... that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Ezekiel 20:12 I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Gods people have a sign: The Sabbath which is a LAW and a TIME

Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall...think to change times and laws:

The beast will try to change that sign, those who follow the beast will be destroyed in the lake of fire
---francis on 5/20/13


We are not saved by obeying the commandments. We are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. No one can keep all the commandments. If someone could, they would not need Jesus Christ sacrifice. Jesus Christ death is sufficient to save, it does not need man's filthy rag's to save anyone.
No one is worthy of salvation, no none, not anyone from the SDA's, RCC, or Protestants or any other denomination, no matter how many Saturday Sabbaths you attend. Keeping Saturday Sabbaths are from the visions of E.G. White. Do not believe the teachings of E.G. White the SDA's prophetess. She is a false prophet. She got hit on the head, the reason she got visions.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


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Daniel 7:23 The fourth beast shall...think to change times and laws:

Revelation 14:11 and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

the beast will try to change the times and laws of God, and those who keep the times of the beast, and the laws of the beast are worshiping the beast, and will be cast into the lake of fire

God's people obey the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus

In revelation 14:10-13 you have a choice, the laws and times of the beast, or the laws and times of God

Sunday or Sabbath
---francis on 5/19/13


Gordon, listen to what James L said. It is very true. Faith in Jesus Christ is a gift of God. That is why unbelievers are called unbelievers because they have no faith. How can they trust in someone they don't believe in? Only those born of God receive Christ with open arms. Only they trust Him, and follow Him. Here is what is said of those born of God,
"But as many as receive Him, to them (those that receive Him) "He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, (and who are this people?) "who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12,13).
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13


Nana, I didn't think you would jump up and down agreeing with me. But since you brought it up, faith and understanding are gifts of the Holy Spirit when He brings a person to spiritual life. They are gifts of the Spirit. Faith, understanding, the goodness of God, conviction of the heart that brings repentance, eyes to see and ears to hear, and a new heart for Christ, can only come through Spiritual rebirth.
Remember what is said of the lost,
"There is none righteous, no, not one.
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks after God,
They have altogether become unprofitable"
There is none who does good, no, not one"
(Romans 3:10-12).
---Mark_V. on 5/14/13


JamesL, One does not obey and follow Someone unless they totally believe in that One they're obeying and following. And that means, be it one's parent or Almighty God.
---Gordon on 5/14/13


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Gordon,
Read Romans 4:21-24, concerning Abraham.

being fully assured that what God had promised, He was also able to perform. Therefore it was credited to him as righteousness. Now not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead

It does NOT say - being firm in his decision, it was credited to him.....

It says being fully assured

It is not humanly possible to choose to believe something.

And committing one's self to obeying or following is NOT the same as believing a promise, either

Believing happens TO us by becoming convinced.
---James_L on 5/13/13


Faith and understanding go hand in hand. Lets note what Jesus repplied Philip,
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" Philip until that point had not understood. Peter thought he had all the unswerving faith, yet Jesus said to him "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

Paul says,
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Therefore I do not agree with your saying, Mark_V.
---Nana on 5/13/13


Nana, people do not get faith by seen and hearing someone talk. Phillip did not believe in what Jesus was saying in John 14:8-11) even though Phillip was with Him for a long time and saw the works Jesus did. Jesus tells him
"Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Phillip?" He who has seen Me has seen the Father, so how can you say, Show us the Father? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?"
All the time with Jesus and still did not believe. That is why later Jesus says,"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" speaking of people who believe by faith and never saw the works Jesus firsthand as Phillip.
---Mark_V. on 5/13/13


salvation is received through believing a promise - FAITH---James_L on 5/12/13


Excellent.

Peter 1:8-9
Although you have not seen him you love him, even though you do not see him now yet believe in him, you rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy, as you attain the GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.
---Nikki on 5/13/13


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JamesL, If someone chooses to believe that the World is "flat" instead of round like it is, then, they've "made the wrong choice". Likewise, if someone refuses to accept Salvation for their soul, they've already, then, unwittingly accepted their eternal Damnation, and have, also, then, "made the wrong choice".
---Gordon on 5/13/13


"Whoever had the capacity to choose to believe something ?? If so, will you do us all a favor?"
James_L on 5/12/13


John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."
And to Philip, John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

To some Jews "in the temple in Solomon's porch", John 10:37_38 "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."
---Nana on 5/13/13


Gordon, while people make choices in life, their choices are alway made for a reason. If you choose to eat meat, it is because you like meat. If you didn't, you would never choose meat. Unbelievers do not desire Christ, because they have no faith in Him. That is why they are called unbelievers. James is correct. We choose what we like, not what we don't like. Unbelievers do not love Christ. Why would they ever choose something they do not love? So scripture tells us that,
"We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). When Christ comes into the life of an unbeliever, the unbeliever heart is change and he now loves Christ and places his faith in the one he now loves.
---Mark_V. on 5/13/13


\\Mark V, Because Salvation is a choice.\\
---Gordon on 5/12/13

WRONG ! ! !

salvation is received through believing a promise - FAITH

Whoever had the capacity to choose to believe something ?? If so, will you do us all a favor?

Will you, today, chose to believe the world is flat? Then come back next week and tell us how you're doing with your "decision" ??

There's not really any harm in it. You can always choose to again believe the world is round - Right ? ? ?
---James_L on 5/12/13


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Mark V, Because Salvation is a choice. We all made our choice of being for or against GOD when our souls existed in Heaven, before we each were sent to Earth to live in these temporary flesh-and-blood bodies. Again, most of us are only playing our decision we made in Heaven, now here on Earth. GOD wants us to love HIM freely in return, of our own free-will. Once we've made the choice to love HIM, to be Saved by HIM, and obey HIM until the end, then, when we're in Heaven, HE shall erase all sadness from our eyes and hearts, and that includes the ties we had with loved ones who shall be Damned for all Eternity.
---Gordon on 5/12/13


Love wins, I am still curious what the name of the book was that you quoted on from Jonathan Edwards, was it "sinners in the hands of an angry God". I just want to make sure that I did not miss something. Images of heaven and hell are given. Heaven only joy and no sadness. If from heaven we could see others in hell, we would be sad for sure. One story is given by Jesus on the rich man in hell, his aware of his condition and wanting someone to warn his family about hell. So we can conclude they are conscious in hell filling the punishment.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/13


Gordon, I do try to understand you. You have said God cannot interfere with the lost making a decision for Christ, that He doesn't have the power, and here you say,
"Is HE not, also, capable of erasing from our memories the lost loved ones who will be damned for all Eternity? YES."
And you say yes. If He is capable of erasing from our memories the lost loved ones, why is He not capable of saving whomever He wants? You formed a god who works for you when you want Him to, and when you want to be left alone, you say He cannot make a decision for you. First of all, the lost reject God because they are dead to the things of God. They need Spirit of God to awaken them, make them alive to Christ. Without God they remain lost.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/13


Love wins on 5/7/13 - What method will God use to hide all this from me ?

ISAIAH 65:17 - For behold I create new heaven and earth , ---- and the former shall not be remember, nor come into mind.

ECCLESIASTES 2:16 - For there is no remembrance of the wise more than the fool for ever, seeing that which now is the days shall all be forgotten, And how depth the wise man, as the fool.

---RICHARDC on 5/10/13


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Love.wins, GOD is Creator of all good things. HE can create something out of nothing just by the Word of HIS Mouth. Is HE not, also, capable of erasing from our memories the lost loved ones who will be damned for all Eternity? YES. Besides the fact, that those loved-ones died in their unrepentant sin, and refused GOD by refusing HIS Salvation through HIS Son.....and that makes those loved-ones HIS eternal enemies. And, they shall, then, be our and your enemies as well. Your true loved-ones and true family will be those in Heaven. That's why Yahushua said what He said in MATTHEW 12:50. When we're Born Again, we have a new Family and Friends. Yahushua also came to bring a diving Sword, as per MATTHEW 10:35.
---Gordon on 5/10/13


athiest, you do not have to worry about heaven anyway. Maybe one day God will snap your heart and make you a believer, we don't know, but for now, all of that is imaginary to you. Keep hearing the Truth and keep rejecting it, you are not alone, there is many in your group. Hey, even now many who claim they know the Lord do not even believe in hell.
---Mark_V. on 5/10/13


atheist, I have told you before, on judgement day you will find out how imaginary it is.
---shira4368 on 5/10/13


Mark,


You all are talking about imaginary things and people in an imaginary place. Imagine that!
---atheist on 5/8/13


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Love win, what happens in heaven, we know little about. Only what is in Scripture. Any other ideas are from man and not God's Word. With the removal of sin, from the minds of the believers, there is no hate, no sadness, but all joy and love. Yet to this day no one has come back from heaven to tell us how it is, and if someone did come and tell us how it is, we would not believe him/her.
By the way, you did not give me the name of the book you have. I would like to look up what you quoted from him. Thanks a peace.
---Mark_V. on 5/8/13


So whenever I go to be with the Lord I will be unaware that I ever had earthly parents, or that I had close and loving friends, and that they are all burning in hell because they weren't Christian? What method will God use to hide all this from me?
---Love.wins on 5/7/13


Love win, you said,

"I was only paraphrasing the famous preacher Jonathan Edwards in my last post.'

I love Jonathan Edwards, I have a few of his books, so can you tell me from where did you get that statement? Maybe I have the books. I might want to reconsider what I said if He has some good reasons. But I am sure believers are not in hell watching the others been punished. Believers will know no pain, or will they be able to feel sadness for a love one. No more tears, but all joy in the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 5/7/13


I was only paraphrasing the famous preacher Jonathan Edwards in my last post.
---Love.wins on 5/5/13


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athiest, I was sure you jump on the answer Love Wins mentioned. But she is wrong that believers will be there in hell with the Lamb enjoying the torment of those who did not belief. The Lamb is Omnipresent, He can be with the believers and at the same time be in hell bringing judgment. She is thinking like you are. Believers will be present at the Great White Throne of Judgment, when the unrighteous are sentenced. But not in hell with the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 5/5/13


Since the saved will be with the Lamb for eternity, it means that they will be sitting there watching their unsaved loved ones burn for all eternity, and this will be their greatest joy in heaven.
---Love.wins

Seems that would make the lot of them some really sick sadomasochists. This lake of fire, hell thing is really out of hand. Try atheism: you just die and don't have to hang out for eternity being tortured or watching others be tortured.
---atheist on 5/4/13


Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

Those who worship the beast or the image of the beast wil be cast into the lake of fire
---francis on 5/4/13


Starting in verse nine, here, it says, "'If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.'"

So, not only is there "fire", here, but also "brimstone". And ones are tormented not only in the lake of fire, but "in the presence of the angels and in the presence of the Lamb." So, possibly, we also will be there and our love nature makes us so God's fire and brimstone can't burn us.
---willie_c: on 5/4/13


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Since the saved will be with the Lamb for eternity, it means that they will be sitting there watching their unsaved loved ones burn for all eternity, and this will be their greatest joy in heaven.
---Love.wins on 5/4/13


V10_11culminate the sequence of the vision started in verses 6_7:
"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Summing, God would have brought the preaching of "the everlasting gospel" to all earth dwellers.
In verses 10 and 11, the loss of not heeding to the Gospel stated in v7 is graphically shown as torment. Take note of v12 and endure.
---Nana on 5/4/13


Eternal death in the Lake of Fire.
---christan on 5/3/13


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