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Did God Design Sexuality

Did not GOD design sexuality? Is not the sexual relationship a HOLY thing between one man and one woman who are married to each other, and are living for GOD? S Please, show Scripture.

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 ---Gordon on 5/8/13
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\\Jesus was made like us in all things, as even you have acknowledged. Do you believe that YOU are a hypostatic union of divine and human ???\\

No. But then, I'm not Jesus, and neither are you.

And there's nothing ambiguous in what I say. Maybe you could explain what you find ambiguous?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/25/13


\\Was divinity fully united to humanity in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ...(Theological term: hypostatic union)\\
---Cluny on 5/23/13

Jesus was made like us in all things, as even you have acknowledged. Do you believe that YOU are a hypostatic union of divine and human ???

Or is there a context to "all things" ?? (You have elsewhere dismissed the notion of context)

Explain your ambiguous double speak, please


\\...Protestant Christology tends towards Nestorianism.\\
---Cluny on 5/18/13

I'm not convinced that you fully understand the heresies which you accuse others of holding

If you actually studied the heresies instead of looking them up on a Wiki chart....
---James_L on 5/25/13


Nikki, I am not angry with you. I don't even know you. I bet if I saw you in person we would get along very well. I have nothing against you personally. It is the doctrines you teach I oppose. They are false and not found in the Scriptures. But it is ok. I was in your spot at one time, and God took me out of an idol worshipping church. This could happen to you too one day. I really don't know. God has done it for so many. The Reformers did not want to leave the Catholic Church, but God saw to it that they would leave it. That was the great miracle in History. I suppose that the majority who answer you are all ex-catholics. They know how deep they were in idol worship and lies, just like the reformers.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/13


nikki, why do you say God got to you first? I have been saved since 1952 but I have never even thought that before. so tell me, what difference does it make anyway? maybe markv was saved and you only think you are.
---shira4368 on 5/24/13


MarkV, are you upset because Jesus got to me first?
---Nikki on 5/24/13




\\ As Mary is human she can but give birth to a human. So she, a human, cannot give birth to God who is not a man\\

Yet her Son is BOTH God and Man, and she gave birth to this person.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/24/13


Jesus is the Son of God, therefore God, who is Spirit. He is also the Son of Man therefore a man, and one born of Mary. As Mary is human she can but give birth to a human. So she, a human, cannot give birth to God who is not a man-Numbers 23:19.
---Warwick on 5/22/13

Warwick,

"the Word was God."(JHN 1:1)

John 1:14 - the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among us"(JHN 1:14)

Matt. 1:23 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel, which means "God is with us"

Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the Son of God. Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the "Theotokos").
---Ruben on 5/23/13


If anyone here is not truly brainwashed like MarkV, and really wants to know just what "Mother of God" does and does not mean, go to everyone's favorite wiki, and type in "Mother of God" or "Theotokos."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13


Bro. Richard, thank you for your answers to Nikki. It is a hopeless case as you can see. That is what happens when a person is truely brain-washed. Really in bondage and does not even realize it. That is what I was talking about with man who is lost. How can they choose Christ when they are in bondage to sin, and the prince of the power of the air is their spirited father? It is impossible. God has to make them alive together with Christ. Otherwise they remain in bondage and don't even realize it. They keep saying, "I am free to do what I want, I have a free will" but really, they are not free.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/13


Was divinity fully united to humanity in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ from the first instant of His conception in the Virgin's womb? (Theological term: hypostatic union)

Was what He experienced as man also experienced as God, and vice versa? (Theological term: "communicatio idiomata"--communication of idioms)

Or was Jesus merely a human being with the Logos inside him, much as a droplet of water inside oil--never united? (Teaching of the Heresiarch Nestorios)

THIS is what the term "THEOTOKOS/MOTHER OF GOD" is all about.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13




Nikki, it seems that no matter what anyone says and shows you proof that God does not have a mother, you will insist He does. And nothing is going to tear you away from that lie. You are also going to believe she was sinless when she was born, and that she never had any other children after Jesus. Even when the Bible calls you wrong, you even have an answer for that too, if you belief what Ruben believes that the Bible is not final authority, the RCC traditions are, when it comes to matters of faith, since the RCC created the Bible anyway and removed the Second Commandment.
---Mark_V. on 5/23/13


Nikki, The term "mother of God" is misleading and should not be used by the RCC or anyone when applied to Mary. You've said that the term "mother of God" exalts the Son of GOD. No, *sigh* actually there are plenty of other Terms that can be used to exalt Yahushua. The term "mother of God" is, in reality, used to exalt MARY. "Look, everyone! Look how special MARY is....she's the 'mother of God'!" The Bible is replete with all kinds of Titles that exalt Yahushua, "Prince of Peace", "King of Kings", "The Good Shepherd", "The kinsman Redeemer", etc. The term "mother of God" is not one of them. It's not in the Bible. And, it's not needed to exalt the Saviour.
---Gordon on 5/22/13


Nikki, How much more simpler can it be explained to you? You cannot make comparisons of human skin-colour to humanity vs. Divinity. WHY you ask? Because skin colour differences (black vs. white) only apply to human beings alone. Blacks and Whites are still all created beings. Whereas, Mary was a created entity and the Son Yahushua was, and IS, God the Creator OF Mary. In other words, Nikki, to use different skin-colour for your analogy to validate Mary as "mother of God" is like comparing Red Delicious apples to Golden Delicious apples, when the actual comparison is the difference between an apple tree and the Creator of the apple tree, (Mary the created human and Yahushua the Creator.)
---Gordon on 5/22/13


Nikki on 5/21/13 - Mary is the mother of God ?

John 17:5 - And now , O father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was,

( How can Mary be the mother of God if Jesus was around before the world was?
She brought Christ into the world as flesh and blood Yes ? But brought God Jesus to life ? )
---RICHARDC on 5/22/13


Nikki, how can I put it any more simply. As I have explained in detail, Jesus is the Son of God, therefore God, who is Spirit. He is also the Son of Man therefore a man, and one born of Mary. As Mary is human she can but give birth to a human. So she, a human, cannot give birth to God who is not a man-Numbers 23:19.

Further the Son of God is uncreated as Colossians says He is the Creator of everything ever created. He therefore predates Mary, by all eternity, therefore cannot have begun in Mary's womb.
---Warwick on 5/22/13


Gordon and Warwick, if you are having a hard time understanding Spiritual things how else can I break it down to you? I use simple examples.

Obama's mother CAN NOT say she is Black.
Obama CAN say he is black.

RCC has not and can not say Mary is God.
But her Child is God.

Warwick if you truly believe Jesus is Man and God, then you HAVE TO say Mary is the mother of God.
If not, you DON'T believe Jesus is both Man and God.
Simple as that.
---Nikki on 5/21/13


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Nikki, It's totally off-base to compare differences of skin colour and race with Divinity vs. humanity of Yahushua and Mary. WHY? Because all the different skin colour and races are all still human. All are one kind of entity. Whereas, the human Mary is a totally different entity than Yahushua the Divine Being. Thus, Mary cannot be the true mother of a Divine Being in the truest sense. She could only be His holy "adoptive parent", "temporary caretaker" and His "incubator" of sorts. Yahushua is 100% Divine Who wore a robe of Flesh. Humanity cannot beget Divinity except by Divine Miraculous intervention of GOD. Thus, Mary is more of an adoptive parent not His mother in the most truest sense!
---Gordon on 5/21/13


Nikki, you totally lost me with the Obama stuff. However as Obama is human we then know his mother is likewise human.

We also know that Jesus is both Son of Man, a human with a human mother-Mary. He of whom the coming Messiah speaks in Hebrews 10:5 "A body you prepared for me." Jesus is also the Son of God therefore God, who is Spirit, not flesh. If Mary is also the mother of the Son of God she must be both human, and also God.

What you ignore is that Jesus is both a man, and God.
---Warwick on 5/21/13


Nikki - Mary was the mother of the human body of Jesus. She is not and never was the mother of God in the sense that you are trying to promote.

(I am PROMOTING that Jesus is God, can you say the same?
Are you saying Jesus in His Human Body wasn't Divine anymore?
You are if you CAN'T say Mary isn't the Mother of God.

GOD can't cease being God at no time, space or thought)


Mary deserves respect but NOT worship. I am certain that God never intended human beings to worship Mary ---Rita_H

We agree, so quit worshipping her if you are worshipping her?
God alone shall you worship!
---Nikki on 5/20/13


\\Nikki - Mary was the mother of the human body of Jesus. She is not and never was the mother of God in the sense that you are trying to promote.\\

This is the essence of the heresy of Nestorios, who denied that the full human nature was completely untied to the full divine nature in one and the same Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

And again, I ask JerryL what word he finds ambiguous: "full", "human", or "divine"?

Christ is risen1
---Cluny on 5/20/13


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To say Mary is the Mother of God makes her the mother of the divine therefore divine herself.---Warwick on 5/20/13

So, because Obama is black, so his mother is not black?

Explain how that is possible (Obama's mother is black, not white, but black because Obama is black) then I can entertain your claim that by saying Mary is the Mother of God makes her God.
---Nikki on 5/20/13


\\which words do you consider ambiguous\\
---Cluny

ambiguous phrases, (not words) meaning many things to many people.

For example, Warwick says:
Human nature = flesh
Divine nature = Spirit

Only recently does he explain what he means.

You, on the other hand, "seem" to have a more mystical meaning in mind. Such as when you wrote on another thread:

Did your mother give birth to a mere human nature, or to a complete person?

...Mary did not give birth to a mere human nature, but to a complete person.


Also, "human nature" is used by some to mean human propensity and inclination, not essence

ambiguity in exposition causes confusion
---James_L on 5/20/13


Nikki as Scripture plainly explains Jesus is fully man-flesh, born of Mary. This is the man spoken of by the coming Messiah in Hebrews 10:5-a body you prepared for me. He is also the Son of God-Fully God, Spirit. See Luke 22:70 '...."Are You the Son of God, then?" And He said to them, "Yes, I am."'

Jesus is the Son of God-God, who is Spirit, not flesh. And the Son of Man flesh, born of Mary. To say Mary is the Mother of God makes her the mother of the divine therefore divine herself. Mary is not divine, but a forgiven sinner-Luke 1:47 "..my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour."
---Warwick on 5/20/13


Nikki - Mary was the mother of the human body of Jesus. She is not and never was the mother of God in the sense that you are trying to promote.

Mary was very special to have been chosen by God to bear the human body of Jesus (who is part of the Godhead).

Mary deserves respect but NOT worship. I am certain that God never intended human beings to worship Mary (another human being) She was chosen for a purpose and would have been horrified if she had thought that, one day, she would be worshipped and prayed to.

She called Jesus 'My Lord'.
---Rita_H on 5/20/13


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Nikki, you are comparing between apples and oranges. Obama's mom. These are human beings of the flesh you are taking about. None were Divine. ---Mark_V. on 5/20/13

That's my point!
None Divine except Jesus.

Mary is HUMAN!

Why do you all keep saying she is Divine?
MARY IS A HUMAN BEING. DON'T FORGET IT!
---Nikki on 5/20/13


Nikki, you are comparing between apples and oranges. Obama's mom. These are human beings of the flesh you are taking about. None were Divine. So how can you compare a black person and a white person (mom) to make your point concerning God who is Spirit? God who is Spirit is eternal. There was no mom's in eternity pass. on the other hand, Jesus who was and is human, could have a mom. You should think before you answer. God in three Persons. There is no mom for God the Father or mom for the Holy Spirit. But for Jesus only in His incarnation.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


If Jesus spoke very little of his earthly mother but quite often of his Father in heaven, it seems to me we should follow his example and not herald a woman who was a sinner, and instead herald the Father who is holy.

Mary was a vessel. Plain and simple. She was picked because of her lineage and she was alive at the right time. God is simply fulfilling his own prophesies concerning His coming into the world.

Mary is not divine, nor was she sinless. She sleeps as do the rest, waiting upon the resurrection. She even acknowledged that her own son was her Savior in scripture.
---Jasheradan on 5/20/13


Gordon, Theotokos/Mother of God is really about Who Jesus is.

It's painfully clear that neither you nor your worldly denominational church believes in the REAL Jesus.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/13


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Gordon, you are NOT making sense! Use your head. You are so mad at the RCC you are not being logical. If the RCC said 2 + 2 is 4, you would scream out: NOT SO! IT'S 5!

Grammar and spelling is my worst subject.
I love Math because it is logical! FACT! No spinning on science as you try with words.

The word 'OF' IS NOT 'IS'!
WE ARE NOT SAYING MARY IS GOD!
I am not going to argue with you if you refuse to USE REASON!
Even my 5 year old nephew know the difference between the words 'of' and 'is'.

Mary the MOTHER OF GOD, because Jesus is God.

FILL IN THE BLANKS.
MARY IS THE MOTHER OF JESUS.
JESUS IS GOD.
MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD.

You need to mediate on logic before you try to debate someone.
---Nikki on 5/20/13


Nikki, That is so not true that if one refuses to use the term "mother of God" in regards to Mary, that they are, then, somehow, "not acknowledging" Yahushua's Divinity. For example, I, for one, refuse to call Mary "mother of God", yet, I know that I KNOW that Yahushua (Jesus Christ) is God of very GOD. You see? The Son of GOD is God, indeed. So, my testimony alone discredits your claim that refusing to call Mary "the mother of God" strips the Messiah of His Divinity! But, as I said, this play-on-words is another subtle attempt by RCC to ELEVATE a human being to a near god-like status. RCC elevates man. True Religion regards only the elevation of GOD.
---Gordon on 5/20/13


\\"Mother of God" means, and includes, being the "mother of Divinity".||

No, it doesn't. I've already told you this.

++That happens partly because of the use of such ambiguous phrases such as "human nature" and "divine nature"++

Exactly which words do you consider ambiguous, JamesL? "Human"? "Divine"? "Nature"?

Please explain where the ambiguity lies.

These words and phrases sound pretty definite to me.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/13


Much can be accurately worked out by deduction. God is eternal so has no beginning, therefore no parent/s. Scripture says Mary is the mother of the Son of Man-flesh. To say she is the Son of God's mother is nonBiblical.

Flesh gives forth only flesh. This, as Steveng has written is a danger of denominationalism. Over time some denominations build a lattice of man made beliefs, so woven and indoctrinated into the denominations theology that it becomes uncritically accepted by its followers, as fact. Colossians 2:8 condemns this practice of man: "See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
---Warwick on 5/20/13


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James L, by your question it seems that you are oppose to Jesus been a human being, and of Him been Divine, or else you would not be asking those questions. Those questions only come from heretics.
If to this day you do not belief Jesus was Divine and a human being and still is, I cannot ever convince you. I don't convince or change anyones heart. I read the Bible and know He is Divine for He came from heaven and He became human because He died for our sins. The Word of God tells me so.
The doctrine of the nature of Jesus Christ is the same in the RCC as it suppose to be in all denominations if they are Christian.
Creeds do not save anyone. Only by the grace of God through faith in Jesus works are we saved.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


All of you who refuse to say Mary is the Mother of God are not using common sense.

A woman can be a mother of William, and NOT A MAN.
Just because William is a man, a woman can't be the mother?

Better yet, Obama's Mother is white, NOT BLACK.
But she is the Mother of the first BLACK President.
HOW CAN THAT BE?? SHE ISN'T BLACK!
Do you all see how ridiculous that sounds?

President Obama got his blackness from his father, NOT his Mother.
Obama got his whiteness from his Mother.

Jesus didn't get His Divinity from His Mother, Mary.
He got His Humanity from Mary.


If you can't say Mary is the Mother of God, YOU DON'T THINK JESUS IS GOD!
---Nikki on 5/20/13


"mother of God" is in the Bible, as pertaining to Mary, then, where is it? I mean that exact term "mother of God"....it does matter.\\
---Gordon on 5/19/13

Can you provide a scripture which states exactly - "Mother of the Humanity...." ???

---James_L on 5/19/13

GREAT POINT!

Daniel 7, Matthew 12:8 17:22, 19:28, Mark 2:27-28, 10:45 and Luke 6:5

Gordon, saying SON OF MAN is the same thing as saying Mother of God.

The terms are in reverse.

How else can Jesus be called SON OF MAN?
Not by God the Father.

ONLY BY MARY THE HUMAN!
---Nikki on 5/20/13


James L 2: concerning the Divine nature of Jesus Christ'"The whole fulness of deity dwells bodily" (Col.2:9)
It is also evident that Christ is declared by the Scriptures to be eternal and only someone Divine is eternal (Micah 5:2: John 8:58: Col. 1:16,17: Rev. 1:8: John 1:3). "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End" (Rev. 1:8).
We also know Christ took a human body (Luke 1:35: Matt. 1:20) The angel pointed out to Joseph that this was a fulfillment of the prediction recorded in (Isaiah 7:14) "for it is He that shall save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). Only human beings die, God never dies for He is Spirit (John 4:24.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


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\\I mean that exact term "mother of God". Not "mother of our Lord", etc. But, "mother of God". And, yes, Cluny, there is a difference, and it does matter.\\

Who else is the Lord BUT God?

Or do you think there is another Lord?

Remember the confession of St. Thomas when He saw the Resurrected Savior? "My Lord and my God!"

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/13


\\Mary was the earthly mother of the Humanity of Yahushua....If the exact expression "mother of God" is in the Bible, as pertaining to Mary, then, where is it? I mean that exact term "mother of God"....it does matter.\\
---Gordon on 5/19/13

Can you provide a scripture which states exactly - "Mother of the Humanity...." ???
---James_L on 5/19/13


If Jesus is God, then mary is the mother of God

Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

the conception is beyond our understanding

But Mary did carry him, and give birth to him, as every other mother gives birth to a child

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
---francis on 5/19/13


Cluny, Then the term "mother of God" should not be used when addressing Mary. You are saying that Mary is the mother of Divinity when you and the RCC use that term "mother of God" for Mary. "Mother of God" means, and includes, being the "mother of Divinity". Mary was the earthly mother of the Humanity of Yahushua. It is not valid Biblical terminology to call Mary "mother of God". If the exact expression "mother of God" is in the Bible, as pertaining to Mary, then, where is it? I mean that exact term "mother of God". Not "mother of our Lord", etc. But, "mother of God". And, yes, Cluny, there is a difference, and it does matter.
---Gordon on 5/19/13


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\\They look at His humanity to attack His divine nature.\\
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13

That happens partly because of the use of such ambiguous phrases such as "human nature" and "divine nature"

Since you take an adamant stance on the authority of scripture alone, can you provide any scriptures which uses these ambiguous phrases?

If not, then do you believe the words of creeds and councils have as much authority than scripture ??
---James_L on 5/19/13


"Mother of God" is a Biblical phrase.
cluny where does the bible literally say this? scripture please

"She is the mother of Jesus, not Christ. In order to bring redemption Christ needed a body to die for our sins. He received the human body from Mary. And was called Jesus. He is Jesus Christ. The Son of God in His Divinity, the son of Mary in His humanity. "

amen Markv, Christ had 2 natures, one divine not like ours and one flesh like ours
He followed the one not like ours.
---ginger on 5/19/13


MarkV, if only you were saved, you would have spiritual discernment and understand these things, but as long as you are still in your sins, these things will be foolishness to you.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/13


Is not the sexual relationship a HOLY thing between one man and one woman
---Gordon on 5/8/13

Yes it is between a man and a woman. Although sometimes it is between a man, a woman, and a few other women.

Exodus 21:9... If he take him another wife, her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

2 Samuel 12:8 I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, .. and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

Deut 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, ...her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife,
---francis on 5/19/13


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Cluny, if you only understood, that God is our Savior. God. Get that right. Christ in the flesh died for our sins. In His flesh. As God, He never died. Only the flesh that Mary gave birth to could die. God rose Him from the dead, His flesh. Not His Divine nature, for God does not have a mother.
By your standards, you are saying that Mary gave birth to God, and she did not.
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13


Cluny, when you answer a question as a trinitarian, we are to make sure those who speak about Jesus are speaking of Him in His humanity or His divinity. Cults try to confuse the issue by attacking His Divinity when speaking of His humanity. Like "How can Jesus if He is God be talking to God?" Or "If Jesus is God how could He die?" They look at His humanity to attack His divine nature. All His actions in His humanity were like any human being. He suffered, learned, grew from a baby to an adult. But He was always God. Mary is the mother of Jesus, she was not the mother of God. God is Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13


\\ She is not, in any way, the mother of Divinity. \\

Who said she was?

Nevertheless, both the human and divine natures of Jesus were united into ONE person at the Incarnation. What Jesus experienced as God, He experienced as man, and vice versa.

THAT is what Theotokos/Mother of God means.

You're trying to build up a middle wall of division in Him and separate His Humanity from His Divinity.

THIS is the big heresy of Nestorius, which is all you are repeating.

BTW, no less a church historian than Philip Schaff, a German Calvinist, said that Protestant Christology tends towards Nestorianism. I agree with him 100%

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/13


Cluny, Mary was created by her Lord. Thus, she is not greater than her Creator. Mary was the Lord's mother, only in the sense that she carried the Child in her womb, gave Him Birth and helped raise Him until Adulthood. That's all. She is not, in any way, the mother of Divinity. The Divine God-ship of Yahushua did not come from Mary. Yahushua was already 100% God before He took on Flesh and was placed in the womb of Mary. Mary was Yahushua only in a limited sense.

Yahushua is Risen!
---Gordon on 5/18/13


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\\Cluny, give us all a break,\\

Where? Arm? Leg? Rib?

\\ no body can be the mother of God. \\

Mother of God--properly, Theotokos--is about who JESUS is.

Is Jesus truly God united to human nature, including, but not limited to, the human body?

Then Mary is Theotokos.

If He is NOT, as the heretic Nestorios taught, then we have no savior and are still in our sins.

And Theotokos never meant "progenetrix of the divine nature," so try again.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/13


Cluny, give us all a break, no body can be the mother of God. God is Spirit. He has no need for a mother. Gordon is correct. She is the mother of Jesus, not Christ. In order to bring redemption Christ needed a body to die for our sins. He received the human body from Mary. And was called Jesus. He is Jesus Christ. The Son of God in His Divinity, the son of Mary in His humanity.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/13


\\how the Lord Jesus addressed Mary "woman" not mother.\\

Actually, it's the DIMINUTIVE, not "gyn" but "gynaiki", which, like most diminutives, implies affection.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/13


\\Nikki, Mary is not the "mother of GOD". She was the created, human, earthly mother of Yahushua's Humanity and nothing more!\\

Wrong again, Gordon!

St. Elizabeth was inspired by the Holy Spirit to call the Virgin "Mother of my Lord," in effect, "Mother of YHVH."

Luke 1:43.

"Mother of God" is a Biblical phrase.

Try again.
---Cluny on 5/17/13


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Nikki://Mary is elevated due to simply being the Mother of God.// To buttress what others had written, confirm from John 2:4, John 19:26 how the Lord Jesus addressed Mary "woman" not mother. In the next verse John19:27 HE told apostle John that Mary is now John's mother(implying that John should take care of her from that point onwards).
---Adetunji on 5/17/13


Nikki, Mary is not the "mother of GOD". She was the created, human, earthly mother of Yahushua's Humanity and nothing more! Because Yahushua is God the Son Who came to Earth as a Man, and because Mary was appointed as the Blessed "incubator" of this Child, does not make Mary the "mother of GOD", of Yahushua's Divine Nature! Before Yahushua became a Man, before He took on a Body of Flesh, He was, and IS, 100% Divine, and is 100% God the Son. Mary is NOT the mother of the Son's 100% Divine Nature! Yahushua helped create Mary, Nikki! A created being can never be elevated above it's Creator! The Bible calls Mary the mother of Yahushua, but, it's only of His Flesh Nature as a Man. Not of Yahushua as God!
---Gordon on 5/17/13


Nikki, Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah, but there was a price for that favouritism too! Leah brought forth many sons for Jacob, while Rachel was made barren for a season, and died giving birth to her second son! GENESIS 29:31 says "And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated (not favoured), HE opened her womb: but Rachel was barren." GENESIS 35:18-19. When we show favouritism, someone pays. Besides that, Nikki, it still doesn't validate nor excuse the simple Idolatry of "venerating" a type of Mary that is not real! The RCC's "version" of Mary is a false version of Mary. As pointed out, Mary was not "sinless". She was not a "perpetual virgin". And, she is not THE "queen OF Heaven".
---Gordon on 5/17/13


The Church is to recognize GOD's supreme Position and Glory, and to honour and worship HIM ONLY! Not elevate men (Mary and Peter) to focus on their alleged glory, as RCC does!---Gordon

RCC and I agrees with you that only God shall you worship.

People are elevated because of association.
Mary is elevated due to simply being the Mother of God.

Joesph gave his younger brother Benjamin double portion of food only because they both share the same mother.

Joesph was elevated by his father because he loved Rachael more than Leah

David showed kindness and elevated Saul's grandson Merribaal who ate at the King's table. 2 Samuel ch 9

Lets not pretend only the RCC elevates people's status.
---Nikki on 5/16/13


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Nikki, Mary did not contain the Holy Child in her womb forever! Yahushua left her womb! Whereas, the Tablets always remain in the Ark! After the Child left her womb, Mary's virginity was no longer required of her! After the Child was born, Mary was free, by the LORD, to have intimate sexual relations with her husband Joseph. This Ark/Mary business is strictly Catholic religious doctrine, and is not Biblical! It's not from GOD! It is RCC's own attempts, to, AGAIN, make Mary into something she wasn't, in order to ELEVATE HER. RCC elevates men. The Church is to recognize GOD's supreme Position and Glory, and to honour and worship HIM ONLY! Not elevate men (Mary and Peter) to focus on their alleged glory, as RCC does!
---Gordon on 5/16/13


Marital Sexuality is a beautiful and SACRED thing designed by God. Enjoying relations with your spouse is not a dirty or unholy thing. Far from it. Actually, NOT having relations with your spouse IS A SIN. "Relations" are designed for two purposes: a) procreation, and b) mutual gratification. God designed spouses to be sexually gratifying to each other. Some so-called Christians want to make sexual gratification a dirty thing. It is actually a very beautiful and ESSENTIAL part of a healthy and Godly marriage. It is a sin to withhold physical gratification from your spouse.
---Jed on 5/15/13


Nikki, Joseph and Mary had sexual relations sometime AFTER she gave birth to the Messiah.(YOU were THERE?)

You're talking as if it's being implied that Joseph had sexual relations with Mary WHILE the Child was still in her womb. Or even before. (WHAT? MY CLAIM IS: NO RELATION AT ALL) Whereas, Yahushua is Holy in and of Himself. He IS Holiness.---Gordon on 5/15/13

That's my whole point. The Ark isn't holy in itself, but what was in the Ark.
Uzzah didn't touch the contents inside the Ark, but the Ark itself. HE DIED!

Mary is the new Ark.
Jesus is HOLY IN HIMSELF AS YOU SAID.
---Nikki on 5/15/13


Nikki, Joseph and Mary had sexual relations sometime AFTER she gave birth to the Messiah. You're talking as if it's being implied that Joseph had sexual relations with Mary WHILE the Child was still in her womb. Or even before. NO! They had sexual relations AFTER Yahushua was born! Mary faithfully remained a virgin until AFTER the Child was born! There is a big difference between Yahushua and a Set of Stone Tablets which GOD wrote on. The Stones are not holy in of themselves, they were MADE holy, by GOD. Whereas, Yahushua is Holy in and of Himself. He IS Holiness. He is so perfectly Holy that nothing around Him, no matter how dark or corrupt, could ever effect Him or alter Him.
---Gordon on 5/15/13


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However, reading the Scriptures aloud in Latin for centuries does not qualify as reading the Scriptures when the majority of the listeners did not speak Latin. How can people know and comprehend the Scriptures in a language they do not speak?---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/13

Because the Scriptures from the OT, PSALMS, NT AND GOSPELS (which all are read at every Mass) were read in the native tongue. Homily as well. (Homily- preaching on the Bible from the Priest or Deacon after the Gospel is read)

The other parts of Mass including the consecration and songs was said in Latin before 1965.
Now all parts are said in the native tongue.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


Joseph knew the law and Scriptures...As for you comment of the Bible in the RCC
---Nikki on 5/14/13

You are right and I am wrong about Joseph and his knowledge of the Scriptures. My apologies.

However, reading the Scriptures aloud in Latin for centuries does not qualify as reading the Scriptures when the majority of the listeners did not speak Latin. How can people know and comprehend the Scriptures in a language they do not speak?

I am grateful to the men and women who risked their lives to provide the Scriptures in my native language.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/13


Mark_Eaton, I AM SHOCK!, but at least you are honest. Every and I mean every Jewish boy is schooled in the Scriptures. You did not have to be Schooled in the Priesthood to read Scriptures.
Priesthood was for sacrifices, not Scriptures. Not all Rabbi are Priests or Priests are Rabbi
Joseph knew the law and Scriptures.
Who do you think taught Jesus?
Sunday Bible School?

As for you comment of the Bible in the RCC: For centuries including NOW, only approx. 20% of the WORLD is able to READ! Just less before the 20th century is was only 10% if that high.

So, in HER(RCC) wisdom (copied from the Jews), Holy Mother Church READS to the faithful every day. Chapters of the Bible, not 2 to 3 passages, the Preacher chooses to read.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


Don't you think Joseph knew the Holy Scriptures.
---Nikki on 5/13/13

No, I do not.

Joseph was not schooled in the priesthood and would not have much opportunity to read from the scrolls. His knowledge of Scripture was perhaps all second hand in a time of total Scriptural darkness. Your church functioned in much the same way for centuries, lay people not having Scripture to touch and read for themselves.

I would assume that Mary knew more Scripture than Joseph, since her cousin Elizabeth's husband was of the priestly order.

Your comparison of Mary's body to the Ark of Covenant is more evidence of your reading into Scripture instead of reading out of Scripture.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/13


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Considering that over the past couple of weeks, Gordon has asked at least a half dozen questions aimed at RCC doctrine, it was no stretch to see where he was going with this question.
It took 4 days to think of a springboard to rehash that blog question---James_L on 5/13/13

I agree.
I aim to PLEASE the Man, and continue the conversation.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


\\Gordon, did you really have to bring in the RCC into the conversation?\\
---Nikki on 5/13/13

I think that was his whole purpose for the initial question. It probably relates to his thread concerning the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. That thread began on 4/30 and ended on 5/4. Then this question came on 5/8

Considering that over the past couple of weeks, Gordon has asked at least a half dozen questions aimed at RCC doctrine, it was no stretch to see where he was going with this question.

It took 4 days to think of a springboard to rehash that blog question
---James_L on 5/13/13


Gordon, did you really have to bring in the RCC into the conversation?
As usual, I shall take the BAIT!

This isn't coming from the RCC. I just thought of this years ago while mediating on the Bible one day.

But, think about it, and give me your opinion: Gentleman like, please.

1 Samuel 6:19
2 Samuel 6:1-10
Uzzah is killed for touching the Ark, but he was making sure the Ark didn't fell. A command is a command, and we know God gave a command that only the High Priest can touch the Ark.

Don't you think Joseph knew the Holy Scriptures. Knowing the fate of those entering or touching the Ark.
Plus, he knows Mary is carrying the TRUE HOLY OF HOLY, GOD HIMSELF, so HE CHOOSES not to enter Mary.
THINK ABOUT IT.
---Nikki on 5/13/13


//OTOH, you will have a hard time proving monogamy on the basis of what the Bible actually says, and how the patriarchs and kings actually behaved.//

proof of anything is because of the behavior of patriarchs and kings of the OT?
---aka on 5/11/13


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So, Mary faithfully remained a virgin up to the time of giving Birth to the Messiah. She was chaste, untouched and pure. She gave the Child birth in this pure condition. And some time afterwards she had normal sexual relations with her husband Joseph. Whereas the RCC believes and teaches that it was required of Mary to remain a "perpetual virgin". But, Holiness only required Mary to stay a virgin until after giving Birth to Yahushua. Then after that she could have Godly sexual relations with her husband Joseph. So their sexual union was a Blessing from GOD, and, thus, was a Sanctified and Holy sexual union for them. Not something "unholy" or "impure" as if GOD abhorred it and had to deny such a thing for Mary.
---Gordon on 5/10/13


Indeed! One of His finest creations.

God created Adam and Eve - not Adam and Steve.



---jerry6593 on 5/10/13


I wondered a long time why God connected bodily pleasure with procreation. Then I think I figured it out: God wanted to populate the world He had created, and if no physical pleasure accompanied pregnancy, the population of the world would be very much lower. So the purpose was practical.
---Geraldine on 5/9/13


"Did not GOD design sexuality?" Yes.
"God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it,
Gen 1:28
"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Gen 2:24
"Is not the sexual relationship a HOLY thing between one man and one woman who are married to each other, and are living for GOD?" Yes.
"Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge." Hbr 13:4
---josef on 5/9/13


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Started with Adam & Eve. It's for married couples only, & Not for people that just live together, or out of wedlock.
---Lawrence on 5/9/13


You don't think God did NOT invent sexuality, do you?

OTOH, you will have a hard time proving monogamy on the basis of what the Bible actually says, and how the patriarchs and kings actually behaved.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/8/13


God started Adam with one.

One is enough to satisfy, in God's love >

"As a loving deer and a graceful doe,
.Let her breasts satisfy you at all times,
.And always be enraptured with her love."
. . . . . . . . . (Proverbs 5:19)

If she is satisfying you "at all times", she is not going on "time out" while someone else is with you. But the "secret" of being satisfied is how God's love is so beautifully wonderfully satisfying > "with honey from the rock I would have satisfied you" (in Psalm 81:16).

So, if what you've been doing has not satisfied . . . do what God's love has you do (c:
---willie_c: on 5/8/13


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