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Attend A Home Church

Is there any of you who no longer attend an organized Church? If so, why? And, how do you handle it? Home-Church? Where 2 or 3 are gathered, there Yahushua is in their midst, MATTHEW 18:20.

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 ---Gordon on 5/10/13
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To continue the list:

St. Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain
St. Tikhon of Zadonsk
St. Tikhon of Moscow
St. Gregory Palamas
St. Symeon the New Theologian
Mother Mariamni
Mother Mary of Bussy
Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
Fr. Alexander Schmemann
Fr. John Meyendorff
St. Silouan of Athos
Archimandrite Sofrony
St. Herman of Alaska
St. Peter the Aleut
St. Jacob Nesvestov
St. Alexis Toth
St. John Maximovitch
Countless martyrs

Many of these Orthodox saints labored in the United States

Don't forget that YOUR idea of greatness and God's idea of greatness are not the same.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/27/13


well nikki you should feel a lot better now. you got rid of a big hunk on your shoulders. like I said, many who think they are saved are not and will never make it to heaven. God knows who they are and my responsibility ends after I try to witness to them. I was defending markv and I will continue to do so if I see fit. sorry it got your pants in a wod. I will also defend my faith since you don't know anything about Baptist. all your knowledge is surrounded by catholic belief.
---shira4368 on 5/27/13


\\... let me remind you that your churches foundation is founded in the Roman Catholic Church.\\

I don't doubt I'm a sinner, but you are wrong about the origin of Orthodoxy.

\\ Great and wonderful teachers in history came out of the RCC, not one great person has come out of the Eastern Orthodox church.\\

St. John of Kronstadt
Abbess Taisia
St. Seraphim of Sarov
Fr. Dumitru Calciu
Elder Cleopas
St. Nectarios of Aegina
St. Innocent Veniaminov
St. Nicolas Velimorvic

Just because you've not heard of someone doesn't mean he or she is not great. Your knowledge of the Christian East is minimal to the point of nil.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/27/13


Woo ordained yours? Men.
Certainly not GOD.
---Trav on 5/26/13
yes God did

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
---francis on 5/27/13


Grandma and Shira, why are you all in our Conservation with bitter words?
MarkV isn't mad. He understood me.

MarkV, are you upset because Jesus got to me first?---Nikki on 5/24/13

I tried to correct my statement to Shira after she got confused.

so tell me, what difference does it make anyway? maybe markv was saved and you only think you are.---shira4368 on5/24/13

Then you jumped into the conflict.

Nikki: I feel sorry for you. You believe a lie that Catholicism teaches...So, there are more Baptists that I know that are saved, than any of the Catholics I've ever known.---Grandma on 5/26/13

AGAIN, MarkV and I were not talking about how many of Catholics vs Baptist are in Heaven! This isn't a game!
---Nikki on 5/27/13




Cluny, your sin of pride is showing, so before you fall off of your holy seat, let me remind you that your churches foundation is founded in the Roman Catholic Church. Great and wonderful teachers in history came out of the RCC, not one great person has come out of the Eastern Orthodox church. Most of the traditions the RCC has your denomination holds to also. The biggest is the worship of idols. You can deny that, but it doesn't change the fact that they have the very same idols as the RCC. The same teachings on salvation are found in both of your denominations. There is no justification by faith in Christ alone, but works to salvation. The clothes might be different on the outside, but they are the same on the inside.
---Mark_V. on 5/27/13


Nikki: I feel sorry for you. You believe a lie that Catholicism teaches. I've belonged to four different Baptist churches, and I have ALWAYS been taught assurance of salvation. Plus, to be a member of all those churches one must explain to the deacons, how we became saved, and why we know we are saved. With Scripture. So, there are more Baptists that I know that are saved, than any of the Catholics I've ever known. Remember, I attended Catholic school, and I have a lot of Catholic friends and family members.
---Grandma on 5/26/13


Shira, we seem not to be able to connect.
When I said Baptists are not sure they are Saved, and Catholics are sure, I am NOT talking about which one has the most in Heaven.
My Grandparents were Baptists.
What I am talking about is whenever a Baptists commits a horrible sin, the answer I hear and am told is:
"Well he or she really wasn't saved. He couldn't have been saved if he committed that sin."

Are you going to tell me you never heard that before?

They always have an answer for people who seem to leave God and turn mortal sin.
Once Saved always Saved.

Catholics who when they are saved, the day they are Baptized as Jesus spoke in Mark 16:16

Catholics also knows we can LOSE our Salvation
---Nikki on 5/26/13


In other words, you are going to start a new worldly denominational church, Trav.
I know your subconscious thought.
---Cluny on 5/25/13

Whoa, what a "sheep" mindreader view you have there.
Here are my thoughts.

1. Jesus/YAHSHUA is my head...not any man I've met so far. Bow to Denom-man if you must....I refuse to insert the obstacle.
2. As head of my family, a righteous position is to be responsible. U let Denom-man...if you must.
3. Gordon? I applaude Gordon if caring enough to remove his own from the weakness called churches today.
4. 1 Cor 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ, the head of the woman is the man, the head of Christ is God.
---Trav on 5/26/13


Those of you in "home churches" who have moved away from " organized churches" Woo ardined your ministers?
---francis on 5/25/13

Woo ordained yours? Men.
Certainly not GOD. The requirement is below. There is no verse for "ordained" ministers by men applicable today. Reference "minister" few fit.

I've heard no preacher yet here or the community align "Gospel, Truth, Good News by prophets, apostles Jesus and GOD. Rather it makes them angry and they rail, snarl and bite. Hmmm, witness scriptures on that too.

1 Corinthians 9:14
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
---Trav on 5/26/13




\\We should be interested in the Truth, not in any denomination, for denominations don't save anyone. The Truth does.
---Mark_V. on 5/26/13
\\

That's why I'm a member of the world's only PRE-denominational church that does not teach traditions and precepts of men, but where the worshipped is offered as is pleasing to the Lord, and the pure Word of God is preached without fear or favor.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/26/13


I have those solution for those of you who are A-denominational Non-denominational, and Anti-denomination:

GO TO A SYNAGOGUE OR A TEMPLE

That is what the Apostles and gentiles did

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day
---francis on 5/26/13


nikki, you are talking about something you don't know. who told you Baptist are unsure if they are saved? there are many Baptist and catholics that won't be in heaven. many in churches are playing church. I've been to a couple of those. when I walk in a church I can feel the Spirit if the Spirit is present.
---shira4368 on 5/26/13


Shira, you made me laugh.
No, I didn't mean Jesus Saved me before saving MarkV.

I mean Jesus Save me before anyone can snatch me away from Him.

As for the thinking part, NOPE!
Only Baptist people are unsure if they are Saved or not. We Catholics know when we are Saved. (We know also we can lose our Salvation)
It is either you are Saved or not.
God isn't confused.
No time with God either.

I was saved on August 12, 1973 just before my 2nd birth date.

What wonderful Gifts I got from the HOLY SPIRIT.
Greatest Birthday yet!
---Nikki on 5/26/13


Shira, Strongaxe is correct. The only problem joining a denominational Church is if the whole denomination is in apostasy, all the members are led wrong. But what I have noticed is that most teach the essentails of the Christian faith, but differ in small details.
What I see happening is that even when the denomination is proven wrong with Scripture in doctrines of faith, the person will not admit the wrong. Not because it is wrong but because they are defending their denomination over Scripture. MacAthur call's it "theological bias." We should be interested in the Truth, not in any denomination, for denominations don't save anyone. The Truth does.
---Mark_V. on 5/26/13


shira4368:

You said: a non denominational church has "all" beliefs

That is not generally true. Non-denominational churches each have specific things they believe in. They just may not happen to subscribe to the official orthodox beliefs of any specific denomination.

However, it is easy for such churches to go off on wild doctrinal tangents that could never happen if they were under the authority of a larger, more established group. This is not to say that most such churches do so, but it does happen. (In particular, it is common among personality cult evangelists, like the kind who have huge TV ministries, and don't allow inconvenient things like sound doctrine to interfere with their own personal agendas).
---StrongAxe on 5/25/13


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shira,

i am adenominational.
---aka on 5/26/13


my denomination shows what I believe. a non denominational church has "all" beliefs. can't tell what they actually believe, but on the other hand, I know what nikki believes, what francis believes and what markv believes. how many of you are non denominational?
---shira4368 on 5/25/13


Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.


Those of you in "home churches" who have moved away from " organized churches" Woo ardined your ministers?
---francis on 5/25/13


\\I do not belong to a denominational group anymore. Free is a wonderful strength. My brother does home church and we may start our own soon.\\

In other words, you are going to start a new worldly denominational church, Trav. There probably won't be a dime's worth of difference between it and Gordon's.

I know your subconscious thought. "Now there's going to be a real New Testament Church with ME as the head."

I've seen it happen too m any times before.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/25/13


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Trav, so I guess your answer is "No" since you gave (Heb. 11:39). "They obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise."
You did not answer yes or no again, but your passage indicates they stay lost. They did not receive the promise. Thanks for clearing that up. I never thought you believed that dead people got a second chance to have faith after death.
---Mark_V. on 5/25/13


....no longer attend an organized Church?
Where 2 or 3 are gathered, there Yahushua is in their midst, MATT 18:20.
---Gordon on 5/10/13

I do not belong to a denominational group anymore. Free is a wonderful strength. My brother does home church and we may start our own soon.
To me there is some witness that organized church may be the wide way. Reference the traditions of men Jesus spoke of.
A thing I've noticed when posting two or more scriptures on another site for preachers. They get violently angry when prophets prove their pet beliefs wrong. They have no thirst for truth....thirsting usually just control or money. I've seen it here....scripture provoking instead of uniting. Truth gives peace....some hate peace.
---Trav on 5/25/13


Trav,
...concering Israel and the tribes...
Do they get a second chance after death?
I was speaking of the nation as a whole. Not ever single individual.
---Mark_V. on 5/24/13

GOD has your answer not me.

Just in looking this is what I see about the dead.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
---Trav on 5/24/13


Trav, since you are pretty smart concering Israel and the tribes, it should be easy for you to answer my question. Do those who have died in sin rejecting God through history, are they included in the all Israel will be saved? Do they get a second chance after death? I'm still waiting for your answer. Nothing to this day.
You then ask, what whole of Israel? I was speaking of the nation as a whole. Not ever single individual. Because some have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ already, and have been given the promise. The others have not.
---Mark_V. on 5/24/13


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Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, his own received him not.

Acts 13:46 ..necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
---francis on 5/23/13

O.k....by your interpretive position. The promises stated as "for-ever","everlasting"...are void.
GOD doesn't say this.

Jesus's own family is Judah. They have not accepted... to this day.
Gentiles translated from = Nations/ethnos... filling prophecy's of lost Israel sheep.
Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
---Trav on 5/24/13


John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
---francis on 5/23/13


Cluny,
Did you not read that Israel as a whole rejected Jesus Christ?
---Mark_V. on 5/21/13

Where did the whole reject?
Rather the opposite. Or Jesus failed. Matt 10:6, Matt 15:24. Heb 8:8 etc.
You testimony by logic fails but, christs, GOD's prophets an apostles did not.

Mark...you seem sincere, work hard but, you misinterpret scripture.....consistently. You're not alone as your doctrine is taught but, not found true by multiple scripture witnesses.
Listen less to markv and more too GOD's elected witnesses.
---Trav on 5/23/13


The church, the body of Christ, composed of Jew and Gentile does not have twelve tribes.
When the Bible talks about twelve tribes, it isn't talking about the church of one body (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).
There were twelve tribes that made up the nation Israel. Those tribes came from the twelve sons of Jacob (Gen 49:28).
Jesus promised twelve apostles they would sit on twelve thrones: one throne for each tribe of Israel.
Matt 19:28

The twelve ministered the Messiah and the kingdom to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Acts 2:22, James 1:1

John prophesied that 12000 from each tribe would be sealed as ministers. Rev 7:4
He called one man to minister the BoC Acts 9 BoC, 1 body-1 apostle Israel, 12 tribes- 12 apostles
---michael_e on 5/21/13


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\\What I tell you about spiritual matters is foolishness to you.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/13\\

How odd. I was just thinking that you reject as foolishness what I tell YOU about spiritual matters.

And I noticed you didn't answer my more recent question yesterday. Why?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/13


Cluny, in order to argue you say,
"Old Israel was visible. So is NEW Israel"
Did you not read that Israel as a whole rejected Jesus Christ? Only those who are saved are in the Spirit, one body in Christ. Does Jesus Christ sin?

"These things we also speak, not in the wisdom of words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God" for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know, because they are spiritually discerned" (1Cor. 2:13,14).
What I tell you about spiritual matters is foolishness to you.
---Mark_V. on 5/21/13


\\Cluny, you are speaking of the visible worldly Church. The Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual Church.\\

Wrong again.

Old Israel was visible. So is NEW Israel.

Quit trying to be more spiritual than God. You'll never be able.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/13

A truth three times. He is wrong, Israel is still here and he'll will never be one kind of able...
Abel ??? Almost daily.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore
---Trav on 5/20/13


Just a little knowledge of what apostasy is and who are those who fall into it. The author of Hebrews is speaking rhetorically in (Heb. 10:26) and we know that because (the author) excuses himself and genuine believers from this category in (Heb. 10:39). "Sin willfully" in the Grk. carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual. The sin is rejectiong Christ deliberately. These are not isolated acts. According to the Mosaic legislation, such acts of deliberate, premeditated sin required excusion from the contregation of Israel (Num. 15:30,31). This warning passages deals with the sin of apostasy, an intentional falling away. So are many of the passages given by heretical francis.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


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My church started as a home church it just grew to 25,000 people over the last 13 years.
---Scott1 on 5/20/13


\\Pedophiles are habitual predators, seeking children to molest and rape. The children of God are not pedophiles.\\

According to you they sin only in the flesh, not in their spirits.

Make up your mind.

Or are you saying that only other people's sins keep them from being true members of the "spiritual church,' but not your OWN sins?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/13


Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Colossians 1:23 IF YE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel,

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, IF THEY CONTINUE IN FAITH and charity and holiness with sobriety.
---francis on 5/20/13


Cluny, you say,
"So, MarkV, you are saying that spiritual members of the spiritual Church can sin in the flesh and not lose their spiritual life"
I am not saying that at all. In the spirit no one sins. In the flesh everyone sins. For all come short of the glory of God. The spiritual life we have with the Lord is forever. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.
Our bodies have not been redeemed, or glorified yet until the Second Coming, but it will happen. Anyone who has the Spirit of God does not commit habitual sin. Pedophiles are habitual predators, seeking children to molest and rape. The children of God are not pedophiles. Do not confuse the children of God and the children of satan.
---Mark_V. on 5/20/13


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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them, for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just [man] falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

All sin can be forgiven, it is when we are presumptuous, and refuse to acknowledge our sin that we are in danger of the fire indignation

1 John 2:1
---francis on 5/19/13


markv, I agree with your post about sinning. we can loose our joy if we don't pray and stay in the Word.
---shira4368 on 5/19/13


So, MarkV, you are saying that spiritual members of the spiritual Church can sin in the flesh and not lose their spiritual life.

Does this apply to pedophiles, too? Or only to certain sinners.

Are you saying that all sinners are equal, but some are more equal than others?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/19/13


Cluny, you also say,
"Were Ananaias and Sapphira members of the "true spiritual church"?" If they both were born of the Spirit, they are a part of the body of Christ spiritually. What we do know is they were struck dead physically by the Spirit.

"Was St. Peter a member of the "true spiritual church" when he didn't keep kosher, but at one point required Gentile Christians to do so?" Just because he sinned in the flesh did not mean he lost his spiritual life. If everytime we sinned we were to lose our spiritual life together with Christ, no one would be saved for all come short of the glory of God.
Cluny, I am speaking of Spiritual matters, you are still in the flesh.
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13


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Strongaxe, you are speaking about the flesh, I am speaking of spiritual things. When a person is born of the Spirit, spiriually, he is baptized into one body in Christ. He belongs to the Lord spiritually forever. The flesh has not been redeemed. The flesh will be glorified at the Second Coming. The person born of the Spirit in his flesh goes to visible churches. The visible church also have members who are not saved. Some are born of the Spirit and some are not. The visible church is made up of wheat and tares. When a born again Christian walks into the visible Church, Christ is present. If all believers leave, the church will be left with nothing but tares. Many churches have very few believers.
---Mark_V. on 5/19/13


If you choose to no longer attend a organized church ( as if a disorganized church is a solution) it should be for doctrinal reasons, not personal

If you find that there is a doctrinal error in your denomination, there must be a way of bringing to the attention of the church, as Luther did.

If you have doubts as to where or not your are in the right organized church consider what the bible teaches:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them
Revelation 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

THEN ACT ACCORDINGLY
---francis on 5/18/13


Were Ananaias and Sapphira members of the "true spiritual church"?

Was St. Peter a member of the "true spiritual church" when he didn't keep kosher, but at one point required Gentile Christians to do so?

Were Demas, Crescens, and Titus (2 Tim 4:10) who forsook St. Paul members of the "true spiritual church"?

Please answer.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/13


\\You just don't understand spiritual matters Cluny.\\

You don't think that YOU do, do you?

I know for a fact that YOU do not.

In any case, I will challenge you on a statement that you made.

Please tell me how many pedophiles you actually know who are members of Orthodox churches.

If you can't, withdraw your statement.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/18/13


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Mark_V.:

You said: The Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual Church...

Who determines one's membership in such a church? Does committing even a single sin cast one out? Remember, if you look even at the very early church mentioned in the New Testament, there were numerous disagreements, strife, etc. even among the apostles themselves and their converts. Were these part of the "spiritual church"?
---StrongAxe on 5/18/13


Cluny, you now say,

"In the last Baptist Church with which I was associated, the Pastor was an adulterer, and the Minister of Music had a taste for teenage boys."

You just don't understand spiritual matters Cluny.
You attended another church that is not the Church of Christ. How many times do you want me to tell you. The visible church is made up of wheat and tares. That is not the Church of Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual Church. No pedophiles or idol worshippers there. Not a one. They have all be called out by God, justified by God, and are seating in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. You are still speaking about the church in the flesh.
---Mark_V. on 5/18/13


\\What you attend is the Israel of the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18) that is the visible church you and Nikki attend, they are visible churches which have murderers, pedophiles, idol worshippers and a corrupt system of faith. That is not the Church Of Christ.\\

In the last Baptist Church with which I was associated, the Pastor was an adulterer, and the Minister of Music had a taste for teenage boys.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/17/13


cluny, here we go again.....
---shira4368 on 5/16/13


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//Is there any of you who no longer attend an organized Church? If so, why?//

Why? Have you not read some of the comments?
---michael_e on 5/16/13


Cluny, the Church of Jesus Christ is a made up of all those who are born of the Spirit and baptized into one body in Christ where Jesus is the Head of that body. That is the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) the Church of Christ made up of Jews and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah.
What you attend is the Israel of the flesh (1 Cor. 10:18) that is the visible church you and Nikki attend, they are visible churches which have murderers, pedophiles, idol worshippers and a corrupt system of faith. That is not the Church Of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 5/16/13


\Are you not saved by the Word of God? \\

If bhy "Word of God," you mean our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, yes.

If you mean the Bible, no.

\\Isn't He the One you are to depend on? Who you should Trust?\\

Certainly not you and your worldly denominational church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/13


\\Cluny, you are speaking of the visible worldly Church. The Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual Church.\\

Wrong again.

Old Israel was visible. So is NEW Israel.

Quit trying to be more spiritual than God. You'll never be able.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/13


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Cluny, you are speaking of the visible worldly Church. The Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual Church. It has no pedophiles who molest children, no murderers either, or popes. The Church of Jesus Christ, He is the Head of the Church, and did not persecute the Jews all through history. Those are worldly people and all come short of the glory of God.
The Church of Jesus Christ does not come short on anything. They are one spiritual part of the body of Christ, baptized by the Holy Spirit. Your church and every other church are worldly churches not spiritual churches.
---Mark_V. on 5/15/13


Cluny, you now say,

"But the Bible itself has never said it is the final authority."

God does not have to say in His Word, I am the final Authority. You should know that without God having to tell you. Are you not saved by the Word of God? Isn't He the One you are to depend on? Who you should Trust? Who you should worship? If He is not final Authority to you, then we are correct, your denomination is final authority, not God.
---Mark_V. on 5/15/13


\\Cluny: I thought that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead the believers, individually, into all Truth.\\

You thought wrong, Grandma.

The pronoun here is PLURAL, not the singular, individual second person, as the KJV demonstrates, so I don't know where you got the idea that the Holy Spirit leads merely individuals into truth.

And is not the Church the Believers COLLECTIVELY?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/14/13


Cluny: I thought that Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead the believers, individually, into all Truth. The Church is the collective body of believers. But, I'd like to see Book, Chapter and Verse where Christ uses the word "church."
---Grandma on 5/14/13


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\\The Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics have been making up their own rules for centuries, because the Bible is not final Authority, so how can you judge another?
---Mark_V. on 5/14/13\\

But the Bible itself has never said it is the final authority.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth, NOT the Bible. In fact, He even said that devotion to the Scriptures can get in the way of seeing Himself.

The real question, therefore, is when did the Holy Spirit stop leading the Church?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/14/13


Cluny, you now say to boast on your Orthodox church,

"If thery were not making up their own rules, they would be Orthodox.
And that is absolutely the case!"


The Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics have been making up their own rules for centuries, because the Bible is not final Authority, so how can you judge another?
---Mark_V. on 5/14/13


\\Cluny, That the home-Churches make up their own rules "independant of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is absolutely not the case.\\

If thery were not making up their own rules, they would be Orthodox.

And that is absolutely the case!

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/13/13


Cluny, That the home-Churches make up their own rules "independant of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is absolutely not the case. NOT with EVERY home-Church gathering, it's not. I'm sure there are those who do. But, nevertheless, there are definitely those who are following the Almighty Triune GOD at the home-gathering. Yahushua means what He says when He says in MATTHEW 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there Am I in the midst of them." So, if two or more are gathering together in a house to worship Yahushua, then Yahushua will be there with them!
---Gordon on 5/13/13


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\\They can make up their own rules. \\

That's just exactly what they do. They make up their own rules independent of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the original Orthodox Church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/13/13


Peter, I believe if you go back and read all my answers you will find that what you said is what I said. Denominations, are run by a set of rules of faith. RCC is run by the rules of the RCC and what they believe to be truth even if it is not in Scripture. The same for all denominations. Now some home churches have their own set of rules if they do not belong to a denomination. If they belong to a denomination the home church has to follow the rules of the denomination they belong to. Hope that helps
---Mark_V. on 5/13/13


No longer do I regularly attend an organized business orientated church. To answer why is somewhat complex. The positive answer is because fellowship with one on one, loving one-another, submitting to one-another, encouraging one-another, and exhorting one-another, happens more and better outside of the organized church.
Negatively, among other reasons, there is usually a narcissist or the beginnings of one that stands up on a podium soliciting admiration in the name of speaking for God, and then they usually stand at the door to get recognition for a job well done, having not said much helpful anyway.
I know a bit harsh, and no, I am not asking anyone to follow me...follow Christ.
---Rod4Him on 5/13/13


Mark V: 'Nikki, a denomination a a group of churches grouped together.'

Not really - sorry to disagree.

Really, a 'denomination' is what in the old days was called a 'dogma' - a set of beliefs (in some cases it may also include things like how important certain things, like Baptists feel more important on Baptisms, or Presbyterians are on the way the church is arranged)

So it really how the church sets out its way of belief and running itself. Even a home church needs to have that. It is not subject to an outside governing body, it is subject to its own 'dogma'
---Peter9556 on 5/12/13


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But the homes churches I have been to, are not independent, they are satelites churches from one main Church. They had 17 satelite home churches to provide more help to a fewer group who needed the help. In a big church many times some people do not get the help they are looking for. The Church I belonged to, gave the guidelines to what is going to be taught at the home church. They even provide the homes with pastors from the Church.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/13

Sounds like the Catholic Church to me.
---Nikki on 5/12/13


if there isn't any churches why did Paul write letters to them trying to straightened them out. many were proud (just like today) and many thought they were more elite(just like now). the churches had the same problems then as we have now. Christians are the bride of Christ but we still have meeting places where we can fellowship and bear one another's burdens.
---shira4368 on 5/12/13


Nikki, a denomination a a group of churches grouped together. Home churches are not group with anyone many times, they are independent. They don't follow anyone's guidelines. They can make up their own rules.
But the homes churches I have been to, are not independent, they are satelites churches from one main Church. They had 17 satelite home churches to provide more help to a fewer group who needed the help. In a big church many times some people do not get the help they are looking for. The Church I belonged to, gave the guidelines to what is going to be taught at the home church. They even provide the homes with pastors from the Church.
---Mark_V. on 5/12/13


Home churches can be non-denominational which means they can set their own set of rules of faith.---Mark_V. on 5/11/13

Which makes them a denomination as soon as they set rules.
---Nikki on 5/11/13


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in my exhaustion a few years ago, i could no longer keep going to church. there was too much for me to do.

i decided to rest as was commanded. i teach my kids about what i know of God from Sunday-Saturday when i get the opportunity.

i have noticed marked improvement in my growth in the Lord. i am learning so much about my relationship with the father because of my relationship with my kids.
---aka on 5/11/13


Well, Mark_V, at least you grasp that Orthodoxy is a different church from Catholics.

But you are still in a denomination, yourself. Denying it will not change that fact.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/11/13


Cluny, you are wrong, a denomination is a group of churches guided by one set of rules, like the RCC, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, Islam, Pentecostals, and the like. All following the set of rules of faith give by their denomination. They protect their denomination even when it goes against the Word of God. The RCC was the first universal group of churches to be headed by one person. Jed is right, Eastern Orthodox broke away from the RCC not the other way around. They are a denomination similar to the RCC since they came from there. Just like many churches have broken away from other denominations and create their own denomination. Home churches can be non-denominational which means they can set their own set of rules of faith.
---Mark_V. on 5/11/13


The people who tend to start 'their own church' are usually those not prepared to accept authority from another person.---Rita_H on 5/11/13

Amen!

And the person who can't accept authority from another expects everyone to take his authority.

Then, some will leave that Church to start their own house church to bully others.

The cycle continues.
Everyone wants to be boss, but no one what's Jesus to be in charge.
---Nikki on 5/11/13


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Yes, I have seen & attended these types of "home churches" before. A major problem with these churches is that there is no oversight of the church leaders, which can also be a problem with small non-denominational churches where one person is in charge.
---Jed on 5/11/13


A house church is STILL an organized denominational church.

It may be a denomination of just one congregation, and it may have a loose organization, but that will not prevent it from being denominational, organized, or by your standards, worldly, Gordon.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/11/13


I have seen several home churches started and think that these are good ideas ONLY IF the people starting them continue to ALSO attend a church with strong leadership. If they try to just govern themselves they often flounder.

There are soon battles for leadership and fallings-out. None of this glorifies God.

The people who tend to start 'their own church' are usually those not prepared to accept authority from another person.

I know one person who brags that he visited EVERY church in our area and because 'all of them were wrong' he started his own!!

He behaves like a dictator.
---Rita_H on 5/11/13


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