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Is Peter The Rock Or Church

In the Verse MATTHEW 16:18, Is Peter ("Petros") the Rock ("Petra") onto which the Church was built? Or, is Yahushua (Jesus) the Rock ("Petra") of the Church?

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2 Peter 1:19-21

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Everything Peter writes totally refutes RCC teaching...and he one day will have the last laugh, because you have lied and lied about him.

I love 1-2 Peter and can find NO RCC teaching whatsoever. The opposite in fact.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


Nikki and Cluny still don't get it.. What makes YOU think YOU can take one verse and KNOW EXACTLY what TRUTH Jesus meant. Even when Paul preached, the Bereans SEARCHED "the scriptures" to see if what he was saying was TRUTH....OK what scriptures? Certainly could not be the Gospel of Mat, Mark Luke and John as they were not written then.---kathr4453 on 5/16/13

Cluny answered you well.

The holy Jewish Scriptures. You know, the ones Jesus read.

When Jesus is direct and to the point, I know the truth.
I Know it is hard for you to understand. Because when Jesus spoke in Chapter 6 directly, clear and to the point, and the apostles understood leaving Him: you still refuse to believe Jesus' Words.

What is yadda?
---Nikki on 5/16/13


Nikki, that's not what Grandma said, that everyone is Jesus, but you took what she said , and twisted it. Do you only believe what is written in red? Jesus came to fulfill the Law and prophets. Everything she said, was first said through the Prophets. John even referred to Jesus as the lamb of God...gee wonder where that idea came from. You really CAN'T believe Jesus or understand whatHe is saying anyway if you don't understand OT Prophecy. All the apostles STILL quoted OT Prophecy..to establish truth.

You can't just pull a verse out of your ear and apply your own meaning. It's based on all OT prophecy. ItS because we believe that prophecy that we know Jesus is the Messiah Christ who was promised.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


Every book in the Bible is Word of God, and is Truth. That includes the Epistles. The Gospels were written by men, and are inspired just as the Epistles were.---Grandma

According to your logic, everyone in the Bible can be Jesus. Since they are all in the Bible.

Why does people who print Bibles have a different color ink for only Jesus' Words?

Why not have blue for Moses, Green for Paul, Yellow for Peter, Orange for James, and Brown for King David.
Since they are all the same to you and Kathr.

Who cares when Jesus speaks?
Why are Jesus' Words more special than Paul's words that He gets a different color ink besides black?

WHO DO THEY THINK JESUS IS?

I guess they must think HE IS GOD!
---Nikki on 5/16/13


Cluny, I am saying scripture teaches scripture. I'm saying we are told to STUDY to show ourselves approved unto God RIGHTLY not WRONGLY dividing the word of truth. I'm saying that the Holy Spirit, THROUGH THE WORD as Jesus said Points to Christ. I'm saying all scripture was written for righteousness. And Paul clearly says NO prophecy is of any PERSONAL interpretation.

So where does scripture give anyone including your popes to make up interpretation and claim they have the right to...like "no meat on Friday, or Hell", or disobeying and worshiping idols.

I'm not a Protestant Cluny, but a Born Again Jew. I was never a Catholic who broke off from the RCC. My faith in in scripture, the WORD of God, not denominations.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13




\\Sorry but he did not leave interpretation of HIS TRUTH up to you.
\\

Wait a minute. I thought that one of the principles of Protestantism was the right of every believer to interpret the Bible for himself and determine the truth.

Are you saying that you do NOT believe this, kathr?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/13


If Jesus made Peter the head of the church, why did the other disciples quarrel among themselves as to who would be the greatest (Luke 9:46)? If this decision had already been made by Christ, the other disciples would have submitted to Peter. What was Jesus answer as to being the greatest? Did he say Peter? NO!

God "gave Him CHRIST) to be the head over all things to the church" (Ephesians 1:22). We are responsible to the head, which is Christ, not to men who try to circumvent the work of Christ and take His place.

If Peter had title as "pope," don't you think that at least one inspired writer would have mentioned it? Peter wrote two epistles, but even he does not use the title of "pope" in either.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


1 Cor 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
(((GET IT NOW Nikki and Cluny)))
Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

Luke 6:47-49
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
AGAIN Scripture teaches scripture like I said. 1Cor 3:11 say Jesus is that foundation ROCK.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


Peter may be a this rock...or little stone vs big corner stone But Peter is not "THE" again "THE" as in THE ONE AND ONLY ROCK that matters! My foundation of salvation is not built on Peter, it is built on Jesus Christ, my life is IN JESUS CHRIST Hidden with God In Christ sealed with the Holy Spirit. Peter no more can sustain me, save me or Glorify me or sanctify me than the man in the moon. And My RCC friends, even if you believe it is Peter, where does this succession you have imagined carry down to anyone else. Peter was an Apostle to the Jews. Where in scripture do you see Peter giving anyone after him any authority to take his place YOU HAVE IMAGINED???....It's not there.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


christan * Ruben, you have a real problem understanding what the Lord Jesus Christ was referring to. It's definitely not Peter but what he had received from heaven,"

Christan,

Did Jesus any where in scripture call Peter a Rock? Yes:

"And he brought Simon to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, You are Simon, son of John. You will be called Cephas. Cephas means Peter (or rock)." (JHN 1:42)

So you see I do not need the Gospel of Matthew to prove my point! Game-over!!

You claim to be a bible-believing christian and that the bible is all truth but when it hits you flat on the face you turn and walk away:)
---Ruben on 5/16/13




Nikki and Cluny still don't get it.. What makes YOU think YOU can take one verse and KNOW EXACTLY what TRUTH Jesus meant. Sorry but he did not leave interpretation of HIS TRUTH up to you.

NOW do you get it?

Even when Paul preached, the Bereans SEARCHED "the scriptures" to see if what he was saying was TRUTH....OK what scriptures? Certainly could not be the Gospel of Mat, Mark Luke and John as they were not written then.

SO there goes your yadda yadda yadda!
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


//NO IT ISN'T! Jesus' words IS truth. Paul words are inspired.//

I wonder who inspired Paul's writings?
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood
So it couldn't have been Israel's twelve apostles, wonder who it could have been?
---michael_e on 5/16/13


\\Nikki, even Jesus said there needs to be at least 2 to 3 witnesses. same as scripture ALL TRUTHS COME IN THREE'S.\\

Jesus said He WAS Truth, and there's only ONE of Him.

Try again.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/16/13


Kathr, you are always telling me I am wrong. Why do you think you are ALWAYS right.
JESUS and Paul's Words ARE NOT THE SAME. No matter how much you wish they were.
---nikk on 5/16/13


Nikki: Every book in the Bible is Word of God, and is Truth. That includes the Epistles. The Gospels were written by men, and are inspired just as the Epistles were.
---Grandma on 5/16/13


Nikki, even Jesus said there needs to be at least 2 to 3 witnesses. same as scripture ALL TRUTHS COME IN THREE'S.

Otherwise we have what you are doing, interpreting scripture yourself based on one verse YOU SAY means this or that. WRONG. Scripture teaches scripture NOT YOU!
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


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Kathr//For anything to be truth there needs to be at least 2-3 verses to back up any truth.//

NO INDEED! JESUS IS TRUTH!

//Can you find 2 more verses to PROVE Peter is the Rock?//

I don't need more. Jesus' Words stated once is enough for me.
But to please you, Jesus changing Simon's name to Peter which means Rock, means you have over 50 proofs of Simon called rock by the use of his name: Peter.

//Paul's inspired words are JUST AS much truth as Jesus words.//

NO IT ISN'T! Jesus' words IS truth. Paul words are inspired.

Many Painters are inspired by Michelangelo'paintings.
Are those inspired paintings of the same value as Michelangelo's paintings?
And that comparison among men.
---Nikki on 5/15/13


Ruben, you have a real problem understanding what the Lord Jesus Christ was referring to. It's definitely not Peter but what he had received from heaven, "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Was Christ implying that Peter is the person that's going to be "upon this rock"? If so, you've the doctrine of the Vatican where the man is exalted, which is impossible!

According to Scriptures, we are told that only "faith in Jesus Christ" is what saves the sinner, not the man Peter. He's but a sinner saved by grace. Christ was referring to the FAITH Peter had received from the Father (v18 confirms).
---christan on 5/16/13


The truth is, one has to be Born Again and Baptized into Christ to even understand there is that one and ONLY CHURCH, the Body of Christ where we are seated with Christ in Heavenly Places.

The unregenerate mind cannot grasp that truth. So the unregenerate try to copy and imitate the real, called counterfeit. Only those who have tasted the REAL THING can only spot what is counterfeit.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/13


Well Cluny we agree that the names of churches are adjectives. JESUS established only one true church. It is made up of all those who accept JESUS as LORD and love GOD with all their heart, might and mind. They also love their neighbor as themself.

We know who they are by their love of others. They are in many differnt denominations and only GOD knows them for sure.

I just believe many denominations do not teach the whole truth. That Church is based on JESUS and he is the only Saviour and our High Priest. Read Hebrews.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/16/13


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Nikki, again you are mistaken. You took the words Jesus spoke to the disciples and used them to make your arguement for your church, that is how far you will go with your ideas to protect the apostasy church. Why? because your church is a combination of many churches, not one. And many other churches did not join the Universal Church. It was not the only Church. Third, your church is made up of many tares, murderers, pedophiles, and the Church of Jesus Christ has no tares, because Christ Church is made up of believers who have been justified and are born of the Spirit, baptized into one spiritual body in Christ, where Jesus is the Head of the Church. Your church has a head already, the pope.
---Mark_V. on 5/16/13


There is not one word concerning the RCC or the Orthodox Church in John 17. Chapter 17 of John, in the context Jesus is praying for the disciples. He was not praying for anyone in the RCC or E. Orthodox...Your church is in the world and of the world, just like the E. Orthodox. The Church of Jesus Christ is a Spiritual Church.---Mark_V. on 5/15/13

John 17 also known as the Priestly prayer.
V 11-26
Esp 11... "Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be ONE JUST AS WE ARE."

ONE CHURCH in the world.
Jesus didn't want us to be divided.
I spoke of ONE Church because Catholics and Orthodox have been united until 1054.
The Reformers LEFT the Catholic Church 5 centuries later.
---Nikki on 5/15/13


Nikki, did Jesus ever come out and. say I AM GOD? Or did he ask, "Who do YOU say that I am? "

We know from OT scriptures and prophecy that Jesus is God, the Messiah, the Christ. The same with ROCK.

Because you don't understand how to read the Bible and interpret scripture correctly is where you go amiss.

For anything to be truth there needs to be at least 2-3 verses to back up any truth. Can you find 2 more verses to PROVE Peter is the Rock? The same one and only ROCK through out scripture?

Paul's inspired words are JUST AS much truth as Jesus words. Where did Paul get that Jesus was the ROCK? Scripture perhaps, or maybe Jesus Himself told Paul when he was taken up to the third heaven.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/13


Jesus did not build his church,He built the LORD,s temple.Zech.6:12-15
---mike on 5/15/13


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\\There is not one word concerning the RCC or the Orthodox Church in John 17. Chapter 17 of John, in the context Jesus is praying for the disciples. He was not praying for anyone in the RCC or E. Orthodox. Jesus said, he was not praying for the world, but for them, who are not of the world (John 17:14,16) He was also praying for those who will believe in Christ through their word. \\

That means the Orthodox Church, not yours, because the Orthodox Church is the one Jesus founded, not yours.

And as I've said before, "Orthodox" is merely an adjective. Our name to ourselves is the Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of Jesus, and all the other names in the NT.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/13


It always astounds me when people change the words written in the Bible to fit their doctrine.
\"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah..And I tell you that you are Peter(Cephas),and on this rock(Cephas) I will build my church" (MT 16:18-19)\-Ruben on 5/15/13
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter(Petros-stone-Cephas), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church ...
See also Rock references:
Romans 9:33, 1Pet 2:8 (Petra) of offence---Christ
1Cor 10:4 spiritual (Petra)---Christ
---micha9344 on 5/15/13


So, I CORINTHIANS is not simply a Letter written by a mere man, it was GOD's Words instilled into Paul's spirit, BY the Holy Spirit, for Paul to write down.--Gordon on 5/15/13

Of course it is CORINTHIANS is INSPIRED. Who said it wasn't? Not me.

Paul is a mere man used by God and anyone if they are humble. Popes are mere men

Are you saying Paul's words hold more water to you than JESUS' WORDS? Of course not!

Answer the question. Give me Jesus' words saying He himself is the rock. Because in my inspired book, Jesus calls Simon the Rock and changing his name to rock- Peter!

I left out Revelation that also has red ink for Jesus' Words.
Used red ink passages, telling me Jesus calling HIMSELF ROCK.
---Nikki on 5/15/13


Yeshua (Jesus) is the Rock. He was referring to Himself when he said "upon this rock". He was not referring to Peter. He was talking to Peter.
---Jed on 5/14/13

Jed,

Jesus is the Rock, but he also call Peter rock:

Jesus looked at him and said, You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas (which, when translated, is Peter)." (Jhn 1:42)

And again:

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah..And I tell you that you are Peter(Cephas),and on this rock(Cephas) I will build my church" (MT 16:18-19)
---Ruben on 5/15/13


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Nikki, I CORINTHIANS was a Letter written that was INSPIRED BY GOD, through the Holy Spirit, Who is the Spirit of Truth! The whole Bible is GOD's own Words. And, we know that Yahushua is God in Flesh, as per JOHN 1:1-14! So, I CORINTHIANS is not simply a Letter written by a mere man, it was GOD's Words instilled into Paul's spirit, BY the Holy Spirit, for Paul to write down. That Letter is the Words of God. The Words of Yahushua, for He is God. He is declaring through Paul's handwriting that He is the Petra Rock! You want it in Yahushua's Words? The whole Bible is His Words!
---Gordon on 5/15/13


There is only ONE CHURCH Nikki. ---kathr4453 on 5/15/13
Exactly what I said!

//There are only 2 Churches.
The RCC and Orthodox which used to be One Church. John chapter 17//- Nikki 5/14/13

Cluny, Just Google, Bing or whatever and type in what does Protestant mean.
Here are a few:
Protestant merely means you reject the Roman Catholic Church as the only authority and believe you can worship God and be saved without it.-yahoo answers

A protestant is a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth.-ask
---Nikki on 5/15/13


Grandma, you really did to change your posting's name. The Grandmas I know and had were not nasty as you have been with your words.

Valid Priesthood:
Read the whole Bible. Focus on Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy and esp LEVITICUS. If you wish jump to Matthew 5:17
You might be confused, but God isn't. God is Order.

Do you think God set up a Priesthood just to drop it?
No, Jesus is PRIEST and VICTIM. He is the High Priest.
Go back to Genesis 14:18
Melchizedek, King of Salem (King of peace) brought out bread and wine,(John 6) and being a priest of God Most High, he blessed Abram with these words:

Just because you all don't think a Priest is needed doesn't make you are right.
GOD MAKES THE RULES, NOT YOU.
---Nikki on 5/15/13


christan * So then, would you like to tell us what is it that binds the apostles and prophets, and today the believers outside of "faith in Jesus Christ"?

To teach His(Jesus) infallible truth !

Jesus said he will built his Church on the Rock of Peter not on just faith in Jesus!

Jesus said if there is a dispute take to the Church not just faith in him! ( Mt 18:18)

Paul say the Church not faith in Jesus only is the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim 3:15).
---Ruben on 5/15/13


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Yeshua (Jesus) is the Rock. He was referring to Himself when he said "upon this rock". He was not referring to Peter. He was talking to Peter.
---Jed on 5/14/13


Nikki, where, in the Bible, does it say valid priesthood is necessary to have a church? Please cite Book, Chapter and Verse. I don't want to hear you quote you Catechism of lies either.
---Grandma on 5/14/13


There are only 2 Churches.
The RCC and Orthodox which used to be One Church. John chapter 17

(Protestants came out of the Catholic Church. They are called Protestant for a reason. They were protesting the Catholic Church.)

You have to have a VALID Priesthood to be a Church.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


You have GOT to be kidding! You actually believe that your denomination is the total embodiment of the true Church (the collective body of believers)? Wow! What on earth makes you think your priests are "valid" priests and other pastors and ministers are not? Your arrogance is what blinds you to the truth and will be your ultimate downfall.
---Jed on 5/14/13


\\(Protestants came out of the Catholic Church. They are called Protestant for a reason. They were protesting the Catholic Church.)\\

Not true.

They were protesting the Peace of Augsburg with its rule "Cujus religio, ejus religio"--the religion of the ruler is the religion of the people.

That is the ORIGINAL meaning of Protestant.

What is called Protestantism today was originally called the "new religion" or "new learning."

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/15/13


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Nikki, in your arguement against Kathr, you say,

"There are only 2 Churches.
The RCC and Orthodox which used to be One Church. John chapter 17"


There is not one word concerning the RCC or the Orthodox Church in John 17. Chapter 17 of John, in the context Jesus is praying for the disciples. He was not praying for anyone in the RCC or E. Orthodox. Jesus said, he was not praying for the world, but for them, who are not of the world (John 17:14,16) He was also praying for those who will believe in Christ through their word. Those too would be not of the world. Your church is in the world and of the world, just like the E. Orthodox. The Church of Jesus Christ is a Spiritual Church.
---Mark_V. on 5/15/13


Well Nikki, you have an ignorant and shallow grasp of truth if you think EVERYONE came out of the RCC. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Nikki, you really DON'T have a correct answer for everything.

I'm not even going to continue conversing with someone SOOOOOOOOOOOO ignorant as to think ALL saved people originally came out of the RCC or Orthodox.

The CHURCH Paul tells us about is nondenominational...1st Cor 3...and is not of this world ....

There is only ONE CHURCH Nikki.

But, you go ahead and live in your little brainwashed bubble of lies...I really don't care.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/13


Jesus is the spiritual Church, being the chief cornerstone,and we are members of HIS BODY, making up the Church, not the RCC.---kathr4453 on 5/14/13

There are only 2 Churches.
The RCC and Orthodox which used to be One Church. John chapter 17

(Protestants came out of the Catholic Church. They are called Protestant for a reason. They were protesting the Catholic Church.)

You have to have a VALID Priesthood to be a Church.

At least you admit Jesus is the cornerstone.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


\\Wrong on two counts
---Cluny on 5/14/13

Odd, but your post of 5/13/13 stated that the pronoun was singular. \\

Of course the pronoun is singular in Matthew 16:18. That's the passage under discussion that day.

\\Perhaps Matt 5:18 would suit us better. Jesus speaking, still the Book of Matthew, and still a second person singular pronoun.\\

Wrong again. The pronoun in this verse is still second person PLURAL.

The KJV makes this clear. (One advantage the KJV has.)

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/14/13


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"Jesus doesnt build His Church on 'confessions' and 'faith' but on people." Ruben

So then, would you like to tell us what is it that binds the apostles and prophets, and today the believers outside of "faith in Jesus Christ"?

Your ego and hot-air or is it your "free-will"?
---christan on 5/14/13


When Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom, that was fulfilled the day Peter preached on the day of Penticost. He was the first to preach in the power of the Holy Spirit, saying REPENT...

It is no more than that.

That doesn't make him a pope. All the Apostles preached that day the same message. But Peter was the first to Preach, opening the door to the Kingdom of God, which is within you.

Jesus is the spiritual Church, being the chief cornerstone,and we are members of HIS BODY, making up the Church, not the RCC.

Colossians 1:24-27 tell us exactly what and who the Church is, and NOWHERE is the Mystery that was kept secret the RCC.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/13


Wrong on two counts
---Cluny on 5/14/13

Odd, but your post of 5/13/13 stated that the pronoun was singular.

A second person plural pronoun would indicate that the group of Apostles were being spoken to and not only Peter. As I have stated before, I do not know Greek but my research stated that the pronoun was singular. Your explanation fits my understanding better.

Matt 3:9 is definitely John the Baptist. My mistake, I just looked up the word in Vines and did not actually read the passage.

Perhaps Matt 5:18 would suit us better. Jesus speaking, still the Book of Matthew, and still a second person singular pronoun.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/13


\\BTW, in Matt 3:9 Jesus uses this same second person singular Greek pronoun to address a group of people. \\

Wrong on two counts, Mark Easton:

1. The words are from John the Baptist, NOT Jesus.

2. They are still second person PLURAL, not singular.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/14/13


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There was only one spare set left, and mary took it.
It was for a Honda, that is why she and the other apostles came in one accord---francis
I LOVE IT, I shall share.

They all got the keys:---francis

I disagree.

1st to MarkV, The Church was united until 1054 AD, I don't know where you got your history?

2nd Francis, BTW, you know I like you because of PAPA.

All Bishops share the authority with the Bishops of Rome.
All have the keys to a point.
But, Peter is FIRST among Bishops, Brothers or the saying.
Cluny knows the saying I am sure. Or you?.

When married couples claim they are 50/50, you know they been married no more than 3 days.
Someone is at least 51/49.
---Nikki on 5/14/13


Mark_Eaton * BTW, in Matt 3:9 Jesus uses this same second person singular Greek pronoun to address a group of people.

The difference is, we know in Mt 16:16-18 Jesus is talking only to Peter "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, "V ..18 And I tell you that you are Peter...I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,"V 17-19.

Mark_Eaton * However, if we assume that only Peter got the keys to the kingdom, then what does that say about the authenticity of the NT books not written by Peter?

Nothing, why?

Mark_Eaton * I believe all the Apostles got the keys and that we as believers, get these keys also.

Not according to scripture and the ECF!
---Ruben on 5/14/13


Great discussion!

Concrning the "singular" tense of "rock", Yes! There ONE Rock. That Rock(foundation) is TRUTH. Specifically, God's Truth. That singular Rock is not obtained by flesh and blood(including Peter).
But the Truth "in" Peter(the TRUE revelation of the identity of Messiah), is the foundation of the church today.
The prophets foretold TRUTH. ALL Apostles saw the TRUTH crucified, raised and ascend. Prophets and Apostle's TRUTH is the foundation of the church! Cornerstone is MESSIAH(Christ).
When Jesus said, thou art Peter, he was identifying "Simon" according to God's singular TRUTH.
Moments earlier, Peter identified Jesus by revealed TRUTH. Same Source... GOD our ROCK!
---Legends on 5/14/13


Grammatically only St. Peter was given them.
---Cluny on 5/13/13

I like this answer. It is correct, yet incomplete.

BTW, in Matt 3:9 Jesus uses this same second person singular Greek pronoun to address a group of people.

However, if we assume that only Peter got the keys to the kingdom, then what does that say about the authenticity of the NT books not written by Peter? And of the personal work given by each of the Apostles?

I believe all the Apostles got the keys and that we as believers, get these keys also.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/14/13


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What with how people were coming to Peter to be healed, and he was leading the church, he might have gotten the idea that he was Jesus on earth. But he was able to betray the Gentile believers, with his hypocrisy, like he did in Antioch > Galatians 2:11-13 < but Paul corrected Peter and the other leaders who so sinned with him.

But then Peter, I consider, learned from his errors and matured in God's love so he could write his two epistles, not only by inspiration but from his own experience in God's love.

He says we "also" are "living stones" . . . like Jesus > 1 Peter 2:1-10 (c:
---willie_c: on 5/14/13


They all got the keys:

Here you see Paul : loosening

1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already,... deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Here we see Paul: Binding

2 Corinthians 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many... So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him,... To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also:
---francis on 5/13/13


Did the other Apostles get these keys or did only Peter get the keys?
---Nikki on 5/13/13

There was only one spare set left, and mary took it.

It was for a Honda, that is why she and the other apostles came in one accord
---francis on 5/13/13


On that subject, the Greek in Matt 16:19 (soi) only applies to the singular (meaning Peter alone), not even the other eleven disciples
---Marcus on 5/13/13


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Nikki, I do not remember the Lord Jesus Christ ever saying,
"whosoever gets the question right will get the key" so just because Peter got a question right does not mean anything. Peter got the questions wrong when he denied Jesus three times. Even if he was one of the main apostles, it does not mean he was speaking for the RCC. When the union of churches was consummated at the council in A.D. 313 Imperor Constantine was enthroned as head of the church and Peter was nowhere to be found because he had been dead almost three hundred years.
---Mark_V. on 5/14/13


Christ is the Petra (massive boulder) upon which the Church is founded. Peter is the Petros (pebble) who probably lost his keys when he denied Christ three times.



---jerry6593 on 5/14/13


The Early church did not recognize Peter as the leader when he was called up on the carpet for going to gentiles, to explain himself.

Along with Ephesians we need to remeber that we have a Jewish Messiah talking to Jews. All jews knew who is the rock.

Psa 18:31 For who [is] God save the LORD? or who [is] a rock save our God?
Psa 18:46 The LORD liveth, and blessed [be] my rock, and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

The church is built upon GOD. JESUS is the foundation and cornerstone of the church. The apostles said to follow their written teachings. That is what we should do. They followed the Scriptures of their day. As they used them every time they and JESUS said It Is written.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/14/13


Did the other Apostles get these keys or did only Peter get the keys?

In other words, does the "you" in Matt 16:19 mean only Peter, or can it mean the Apostles, or can it also mean all Believers?--Mark_Eaton on 5/13/13

Ruben, May I?

Remember why Peter and only Peter got the keys.

ONLY PETER GOT THE QUESTION RIGHT.

It wasn't a group answer. So why does it have to be a group key?
---Nikki on 5/13/13


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\\Did the other Apostles get these keys or did only Peter get the keys? \\

The Greek, as reflected in the KJV, is singular. Grammatically only St. Peter was given them.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/13/13


I will give You the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and whatever you bind or loose
---Ruben on 5/13/13

Did the other Apostles get these keys or did only Peter get the keys?

In other words, does the "you" in Matt 16:19 mean only Peter, or can it mean the Apostles, or can it also mean all Believers?

Be careful. Your theology may need adjusting based upon your answer.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/13/13


Ruben: Without those people making confession to God, and confessing that Jesus is Messiah, and those people putting their faith in Christ's finished work on the cross, there would be no Church. The Church does NOT include the unsaved. Only the saved are part of the Church.
---Grandma on 5/13/13


Obviously the "rock" points to "faith in Christ that He's God". Peter obviously received that "gift from God", or he wouldn't have confessed "Thou art the Christ".
---christan on 5/13/13

Christan,

Jesus doesnt build His Church on 'confessions' and 'faith' but on people. Read Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets" and Peter as the Rock MK 3:16 and Jhn 1:42 with Jesus as the chief corner stone!
---Ruben on 5/13/13


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Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone],

Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
---francis on 5/13/13


If it's not Mary, then Peter, and who knows who else you exalt over Jesus Christ...WOW what you all won't do to strip Jesus Christ of everything you can.---kathr4453 on 5/13/13

No, Jesus knows my heart.

Can you love your children the same? But, your husband different.
But hopefully, you love God more.

Gordon gave me a quote not from Jesus, but Paul.
I want a quote from Jesus calling Himself the Rock.
Because I have the passage from Jesus calling himself the Cornerstone. A difference.

Matthew 21:42
---Nikki on 5/13/13


Mark_Eaton * Notice the small word "this", which refers to the truth that Peter has just spoken, that Jesus is the Son of God. This same word is repeated when Jesus says:

Matt 16:18 "...and on this rock I will build My church..."

You would have a case if Jesus said ' and on this I will build my church'.

'This' in greek is "tautee" which demonstrative adjective, describing Peter!

Besides Jesus had already call Peter Rock in Jhn 1:42.

Mark_Eaton * The last verse in the context is also very telling:

What more telling is when Jesus goes on and says " I will give You the keys to the kingdom of Heaven and whatever you bind or loose."
---Ruben on 5/13/13


Prior to v18, v15-17 says, "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Paul confirms, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Obviously the "rock" points to "faith in Christ that He's God". Peter obviously received that "gift from God", or he wouldn't have confessed "Thou art the Christ".
---christan on 5/13/13


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Neither and both!
The ROCK(FOUNDATION) Jesus was referring to was "accurate identification".
More specifically and importantly was "accurate identification" of Jesus as Messiah, Son of the Living God.
Peter's God-given ability to perform the correct identification made him a piece of the foundational rock(petros). Identifications of OT Prophets and NT Apostles are the foundation.
BTW, A few verses down, Peter inaccurately identifies the path Messiah should take. Immediately Jesus accurately identifies Peter as SATAN for his ADVERSARIAL comment regarding his view that Jesus(MESSIAH) NOT go to Jerusalem to be crucified.
Accurate Identification(of Messiah) is THE ROCK the Church is built on.
---Legends on 5/13/13


1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Are you calling Paul a liar? And who said something had to be in red to be TRUTH.

Christ is the ROCK, always has been, always will be, and when Jesus made that statement, they, the Disciples, the Jews understood, as did Paul.

No matter what anyone shows you Nikki, you argue. Scripture teaches scripture, verse upon verse. And scripture is steeped with ROCK=CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/13


If we had to depend upon the messages of Peter for Church truth, our knowledge of that truth would be limited. We can be sure, if the Lord did not reveal Church truth through Peter, He certainly is not building His Church on Peter. We also know when Peter shall occupy one of the twelve thrones, judging Israel in the coming Kingdom age, Paul won't be there. Paul was the Church Apostle. Peter was Gods Kingdom messenger to Israel. To Peter were committed the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. The mystery of the Body of Christ and the Keys of the Kingdom are not the same.
---michael_e on 5/13/13


Isaiah 8:14
And he shall be for a sanctuary, but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

If it's not Mary, then Peter, and who knows who else you exalt over Jesus Christ.
You see Nikki, Peter as well as Paul were quoting OT scriptures, and there is no Prophecy about Peter whatsoever in the OT.

All Prophecy, as is this as well is again pointing to Jesus Christ.

WOW what you all won't do to strip Jesus Christ of everything you can.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/13


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Nikki, Yahushua does call Himself the Rock! Read I CORINTHIANS 10:4.--Gordon on 5/13/13

Why would Jesus be talking directly to Peter and say, Upon this Rock I will build my church.--kathr4453 on 5/13/13

Maybe because Jesus picked Peter???

I hit you both with one stone. I know it was poor humor, I couldn't resist.

Anywho, Gordon I CORINTHIANS means it was Paul's first letter WRITTEN to the people of Corinthian. Not Jesus speaking.

You will find Jesus' Words in red (according to the type of Bible you have.)
Only in the Gospels and book of Acts written by Luke.
I will make easier on you.

From the RED typed letters, please give passage saying He is the Rock. Remember only the red ones.
---Nikki on 5/13/13


The context of the verse is verses 13-20. The primary subject is the question "who do men say that I am?". After Peter answers, the next verse is:

Matt 16:17 "...Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you..."

Notice the small word "this", which refers to the truth that Peter has just spoken, that Jesus is the Son of God. This same word is repeated when Jesus says:

Matt 16:18 "...and on this rock I will build My church..."

The last verse in the context is also very telling:

Matt 16:20 "Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ"
---Mark_Eaton on 5/13/13


Nikki: I agree with you on the meaning of Petra. Just an FYI for future reference. Wikipedia in not normally considered a reliable source, because of how information gets posted there. Not criticizing, just giving you a heads up.
---Grandma on 5/13/13


Nikki, Yahushua does call Himself the Rock! Read I CORINTHIANS 10:4. It says, "...for they drank of that Spiritual Rock (Petras) that followed them: and that Rock (Petra) was CHRIST." Did you see that?
So Yahushua is the "Petra" Rock. In MATTHEW 16:18, Yahushua refers to Himself as "Petra", as it alludes to Him as the "Petra" of the Old Testament!
In MATTHEW 16:18, Simon is called "Peter" for the first time, by Yahushua. That name "Peter" is English for "Petros". And then, Yahushua is the "Petra" Rock, just as He is identified as such in I CORINTHIANS 10:4!
Only a sinless and perfect Man is able to be the Head (Brains, Thinker and Leader) of the Church.
---Gordon on 5/13/13


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Why would Jesus be talking directly to Peter and say, Upon this Rock I will build my church. Actually Jesus was telling Peter upon this Rock, meaning Himself, I will build my church.

Jesus has always been the Rock of Ages....The Church is built upon Jesus Christ, who is head, and we are members, or little stones built up together with Christ who is the HEAD Corner Stone.

Jesus is the Rock of Offense to those who reject Him.

The Rock, where water came out of the Rock in the wilderness was Christ....not Peter.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/13


1 Peter 2:7-9

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light,

Peter NEVER EVER exalts himself as the Rock or even once said he was the rock the Church was built upon. you need more than one verse to make a truth.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/13


Gordon, why do you argue with Jesus? Jesus called Himself the cornerstone, not the rock. He called Simon the rock.

Show me a passage in the NT where Jesus called Himself the rock?

Jesus didn't speak in Greek, but Aramaic to his Apostles.
He called him Kephas or Cephas.

Peter is a common masculine given name. It is derived, via Latin "petra", from the Greek meaning "stone" or "rock".--Wikipedia
---Nikki on 5/13/13


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