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Mother Of God Meaning

The term "mother of God", as used by some for Mary, seems to imply that the great Creator God has a created human being for a mother. Is this title "mother of God" appropriate? Is it Biblical? Please cite Scripture.

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 ---Gordon on 5/20/13
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Cluny, fair enough. I understand what you are saying. But if that is what Ruben meant, he mis-understood my original statement about Bible writings being completed in the 1st Century. I agree the Bible canon was compiled after the Bible was written.

The point I am making is that the trinity and the spin-off "mother of God" belief came after the Bible was written in the 1st century. The trinity (325-385CE), the mother of God doctrine (431CE). There is no scriptural evidence that Mary was given any special devotion when she was alive. Its only because the trinity doctrine became popular after the 4th century did the 'mother of God' belief take shape. There is no scriptural command to give Mary any reverential status.
---David8318 on 5/25/13


I think you're misunderstanding my question and Ruben's statement.

It took several centuries for the Church to sort out what was "Bible" and what was not from the scads of Christian writings circulating--some were inspired, some were not. The apostles themselves wrote many things that were not.

And then there were those writings, epistles and gospels, falsely attributed to the apostles. Gospel of Thomas is one example.

Then there were those writings NOT by the apostles that were nevertheless preserved because it was believed they had some value. The Letters of St. Ignatius are among them.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/25/13


Jesus is God and Mary is His mother rather you want to believe it or not.
He being God is not conditioned upon your belief on His mother.
---Nikki on 5/25/13


Concern: idolatry

Rom 1:20-25
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[...]
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Repentance unto remission
---char on 5/25/13


1 Tim 2:5
For there is One God, and One mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Acts 4:10-12
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

God Salvation-

Y:right hand of God.
Sh:mediating, chewing, two-edgesword (His Word)
A :eye - window of knowledge
---char on 5/25/13




TheSeq/Cluny, I'm happy to answer questions, but for a proper discussion to be had its only right that my initial question is answered first. I'm simply asking Ruben to provide his source info as to why he believes Bible writing was completed in the 3rd/4th centuries.

TheSeq- yes the Bible can be compared to a time machine. For example, Peter was evidently writing at the same time as Paul- 2Pe.3:15,16. They were contemporaries- Gal.1:18, 2:14. Mark and Luke were also associates of Peter and Paul- Ac.12:25, 1Pe.5:13, Col.4:14, 2Tim.4:11.

Peter, Mark & Luke were associates of Jesus Christ. Ruben believes their writings were not completed until the 3rd/4th centuries! Wow they lived a long time!
---David8318 on 5/25/13


Concerns regarding idolatry: "queen of heaven"

God has declared Israel as His Witness that "He Exist" God.

Tracing the seed of idolatry-the adversary.

We witness with Israel the act of idolatry:

*Ashtoreth/Istar fertility goddess
*gueen of heaven

Jer 44:25-27
25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying, Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

Continued'
---char on 5/25/13


\\... where do you get the idea the Bible was completed 3rd/4th centuries? Do you believe the writers of the 1st century Christian Greek scriptures (Paul, Peter and the Gospel writers) lived a further 3-400years? \\

It is one thing to say that the NT was written in the first century after Christ. This is obvious. No one is denying that.

But there are two problems:

1. Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (among others) aware of the significance of what they were writing?.

2. How about all the other Christian writings from this time, some of which were by the Apostles (such as the Letter to Laodicea) that never made it into the Bible. Why did they not?

Can you answer these questions, David?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/25/13


Please tell us when the books of the bible were complied?
Ruben on 5/24/13

Of course, you would be hard-pressed to answer Ruben without refuting yourself David8318
Nana on 5/24/13

Go ahead David8318 answer them.
Here I'll do it.
See you guys don't know David has a time machine.
And he went back in time. So he knows!

See David its easy, go ahead!

Homer Simpson's quotes
Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/24/13


Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus' mother. Therefore Mary is the Mother of God. Not so hard to figure out.
---Love.wins on 5/24/13




"They are the sentences ending with a question mark (?) in my post which for some strange reason you reprint. You've evidently run out of things to say for yourself."
---David8318 on 5/24/13

Of course, you would be hard-pressed to answer Ruben without refuting yourself David8318.
---Nana on 5/24/13


Ruben if you want me to answer your question, please try answering mine first.

They are the sentences ending with a question mark (?) in my post which for some strange reason you reprint. You've evidently run out of things to say for yourself.
---David8318 on 5/24/13


David8318 * Ruben- where do you get the idea the Bible was completed 3rd/4th centuries? Do you believe the writers of the 1st century Christian Greek scriptures (Paul, Peter and the Gospel writers) lived a further 3-400years?

Are you saying when Peter, Paul were teaching they were writing at the same time? Who wrote the Gospel of John, Mark and Matthew?

David8318 * What source material can you quote to show the Bible wasn't completed until the 3rd/4th centuries? Or is it a number you pluck from thin air in an attempt to give your argument some credence?

Please tell us when the books of the bible were complied?
---Ruben on 5/24/13


\\The word is flawed. There is no mother of God, as in God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. \\

Theotokos NEVER meant Mother of the Father or Mother of the Holy Spirit, And nobody ever said it did, or should, or would, or was intended to mean such--except people like you who are deliberately misunderstanding it.

But if Jesus is truly God incarnate, then Mary is Theotokos.

BTW, the Patriarch and Synod of the Assyrian Church of the East (erstwhile Nestorians) say that "Christotokos" means the same thing as "Theotokos," because Christ is God.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/24/13


Of COURSE it is. That's what "Theotokos" has always been about.
---Cluny on 5/23/13

This is your discussion, your word, your concepts.

I have read the Orthodox defense of the word, the RCC defense of the word, the Nestorium heresy of Cristokos.

None of these dicussions address the fundamental problem, the word itself. The word is flawed. There is no mother of God, as in God the Father or God the Holy Spirit.

Yet you defend the word and say the dicussion about Jesus and Mary and what her son is, but the problem remains.

The word is flawed.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/24/13


Mary was the utensil, Jesus is the meal.---kathr4453 on 5/23/13

Alleluia
Blessed are you, Kathr daughter of man. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.

John 6:55
---Nikki on 5/24/13


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Agreed Samuel, but no 'problem' arises for Christians who hold the beleif that Christ is not God. Jesus was/is 'God's Son'- Jo.10:36 (NIV). There is no problem with the Christian view that the trinity is an apostasy because Christ was not God and therefore Mary was not the mother of God. It's a non-issue and does not cause problems or fights among Christians. Mary was simply the earthly mother of 'God's Son'- Lu.1:31,32.

Trinitarians beieve Jesus is God... and "oh, therefore Mary must be the Mother of God". Trinity developed first (325-381CE), Mary mother of God second (431CE). Both falsehoods developed after the event (ie. the writing of the Bible) and thus fall foul of the scriptural injunction at Rev.22:18.
---David8318 on 5/24/13


Thank you David good point.

JESUS is both GOD and man. So as a man Mary is his mother. But GOD is eternal and has always existed so He does not have a mother.

This problem did not arise until the Middle ages. The first teachers of this doctrine had the problem that leaders before them had fought against this doctrine.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/23/13


Ruben- where do you get the idea the Bible was completed 3rd/4th centuries? Do you believe the writers of the 1st century Christian Greek scriptures (Paul, Peter and the Gospel writers) lived a further 3-400years?

What source material can you quote to show the Bible wasn't completed until the 3rd/4th centuries? Or is it a number you pluck from thin air in an attempt to give your argument some credence?
---David8318 on 5/23/13


\\I would bet if you asked Mary herself she would say "I am not the Mother of God", yet you insist this discussion is about the completeness of Christ as both man and God.\\

Of COURSE it is. That's what "Theotokos" has always been about. Don't you get it yet?

Is her Son God Incarnate or not?

BTW--did you look up the article, or are you merely reacting?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13


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THIS is what the term "THEOTOKOS/MOTHER OF GOD" is all about.
---Cluny on 5/23/13

The whole discussion comes about because of an invented phrase/word.

I would bet if you asked Mary herself she would say "I am not the Mother of God", yet you insist this discussion is about the completeness of Christ as both man and God.

For me, the discussion is about the vulgarity of the word. What if I came into your home and said that your father is your brother and your mother is your sister, how would you react? Well, if they are believers that is exactly the fact. It hurts our senses to think in such a way.

Please keep the word to yourselves and we will attempt to keep the five solas to ourselves.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/23/13


You fail to understand the historical development of the trinity & mother of God apostasy. It is not rocket science to establish that both the false trinity and subsequent mother of God teachings came a long time after 1st century Bible writers. The mother of God fallacy had to come after the apostate trinity dogma was formulated by pagan Constantine and sycophant Athanasius. Falsity follows another.
---David8318 on 5/23/13

David,

You can put the Bible in that group also because it was not completed until late third early 4th...:)
---Ruben on 5/23/13


If anyone here really wants to know what "Theotokos/Mother of God" means and does not mean, please go to everyone's favorite wiki and type in either term.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13


Samuel- that 'preacher' you refer to no doubt must be Pope John Paul II quoted in my post who acknowledges the fact the 'mother of God' belief is rooted not in the Bible, but "profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the... Trinity".

As 'trinity' and 'mother of God' are un-Biblical, the then Pope was correct in what he said.

You fail to understand the historical development of the trinity & mother of God apostasy. It is not rocket science to establish that both the false trinity and subsequent mother of God teachings came a long time after 1st century Bible writers. The mother of God fallacy had to come after the apostate trinity dogma was formulated by pagan Constantine and sycophant Athanasius. Falsity follows another.
---David8318 on 5/23/13


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Cluny, when Mary went to visit Elizabeth, Mary was not a spirit!!!
kathr4453

Yes, you are right Mary was not a spirit. But, Luk_1:35 said!
(The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee) And he did!
(The power of the Highest shall overshadow thee) And it did!
Well maybe, (no most definitely) you guy really don't understand, shall overshadow thee!
Do you! What do you think, this is a momentary thing?
God comes upon you, and then what, just leave?
Nor do you understand Pentecost!

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Sorry I'm such a fool in your eyes.
Better a fool then, blind!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/23/13


Cluny, when Mary went to visit Elizabeth, Mary was not a spirit....that is the point. Mary in her human flesh body, being the virgin prophesied about in the OT is what was the heart of these verses. Elizabeth spoke in the power of the Holy Spirit testifying of the truth of the coming Messiah promised. NOTHING MORE. You all have taken that verse and built a who.e theology and shrine around Mary.....when in fact it was about JESUS.

Yes, Mary was truly blessed to be chosen to be that virgin to bring in the savior of the world. The fact that she was a virgin proves God is/was the Father, not man.

To worship Mary is like worshiping the utensils and not the meal.

Mary was the utensil, Jesus is the meal.
---kathr4453 on 5/23/13


Was divinity fully united to humanity in our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ from the first instant of His conception in the Virgin's womb? (Theological term: hypostatic union)

Was what He experienced as man also experienced as God, and vice versa? (Theological term: "communicatio idiomata"--communication of idioms)

Or was Jesus merely a human being with the Logos inside him, much as a droplet of water inside oil--never united? (Teaching of the Heresiarch Nestorios)

THIS is what the term "THEOTOKOS/MOTHER OF GOD" is all about.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13


kathr4453
//Actually that verse was Elizabeth talking to Mary in the flesh when Mary went to stay with Elizabeth.//
Luk_1:41 and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Then she said Luk_1:42and43!
Your right, nothing mystical here!
The Holy Spirit talking is not mysticism!

//And it certainly does not give any credence about the now DEAD Mary appearing to anyone anywhere for any reason.//
The now dead Mary, Right again, strong delusions!

//If Mary was already given the Holy Spirit in her mothers womb, or any other way, WHY did she need the Holy Spirit again at Pentecost?//
If you could just point me to where, I said, Mary was given Holy Spirit in her mothers womb.
Maybe I could understand your delusions!
---TheSeg on 5/23/13


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Samuelbb7
//but because we believe an OT name for JESUS is Michael we are lost and blinded.//

Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So this must be wrong, because you believe Michael's name was given to you men, don't you?
In spite of the fact that Act_4:12 clearly tell you no! No other name has been given to you. Then you say my accusation?
This is not an accusation, it is the truth!
So are you lost and blind, well yes you are!
Sorry! Peace

PS francis I'm sorry, but I really just don't care about what you think!
---TheSeg on 5/23/13


---TheSeg on 5/22/13

Luke 1:41 when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she( ELISABETH) spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me

You cannot see that this is Elisabeth speaking.
You also cannot see that Michael The Arch Angel and Jesus performs the very same prophetics duties. That whatever is prophecies about Micahel is fulfulled by Jesus, and whatever is prophecied by Jesus is fulliled by Michael

You are not blind, you are just walking behind others you vision is blocked by quess what?
---francis on 5/23/13


\\Actually that verse was Elizabeth talking to Mary in the flesh when Mary went to stay with Elizabeth.\\

WRONG, Kathr.

Luke 1:42 says that Elizabeth was FILLED with the Holy Spirit when the Virgin called to her.

Or is this verse in your Bible?

Or are you saying that despite being filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth was speaking in the flesh? This would make no sense.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/23/13


Well Seq I think you have changed the meaning of unrighteousness. By definition it means loving to do evil thing or evil actions.

But you make it to disagree with a doctrine. Francis is opposed to doing evil. We believe in the Trinity but because we believe an OT name for JESUS is Michael we are lost and blinded.

The verse does not support your accusation.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/13


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--TheSeg on 5/22/13
Funny thing is that you never comments on the blog question, just on other peoples' comments.

You just grabbing on to tail coats and follow people

when you are a follower of others, guess what view never changes for you?

try to comment on the blog question
---francis on 5/22/13


Luk_1:43 And whence is this to me, that (the mother of my Lord) should come to me?
This is the Holy Spirit talking!
No one can change this either!

Peace
---TheSeg on 5/22/13

Actually that verse was Elizabeth talking to Mary in the flesh when Mary went to stay with Elizabeth.

Nothing mystical about that verse is read in it's entirety ,And it certainly does not give any credence about the now DEAD Mary appearing to anyone anywhere for any reason.

Talk about strong delusions.

If Mary was already given the Holy Spirit in her mothers womb, or any other way, WHY did she need the Holy Spirit again at Pentecost?

Hopefully that will bring any delusions to reality about Mary being sinless.
---kathr4453 on 5/23/13


Cluny on 5/22/13
This is all YOUR FAULT!!
francis on 5/22/13

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish,
(because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.)

And for this cause (God shall send them strong delusion), that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So why is it Cluny fault!
Do you now believe Cluny is God and not Michael the archangel?

Luk_1:43 And whence is this to me, that (the mother of my Lord) should come to me?
This is the Holy Spirit talking!
No one can change this either!

Peace
---TheSeg on 5/22/13


Cluny on 5/22/13

This is all YOUR FAULT!!

Had you been a better educator in your days, the masses would have known that the one who gives birth in the human species is the MOTHER, be ot of Our Lord God Jesus, or of Pope Francis
---francis on 5/22/13


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Cluny on 5/22/13 - Mother of God

John 17:5 And now , O father glorify me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the World was,
( Mary was the mother of Jesus that came in the flesh, But God and Jesus were around before the Earth or Mary Existed :)

90:2 - Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting thou art God

{ God always was }
---RICHARDC on 5/22/13


Thank you Gordan good points.

David the Trinity doctrine is not false. It is based on what the Bible say about JESUS. Where the Marion doctrine is from tradition to introduce a worship that females could bond with.

You need to actually read the Bible instead of letting some preacher give you some facts from history then feed you lies about what the Bible says.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/22/13


\\ "And Mary said, 'My soul doth magnify the LORD, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour."\\

So, if Mary is calling her son God, that means that "Mother of God" is quite Biblical.

Thank you, Gordon. I knew you would realize it.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/22/13


Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is no other name under heaven!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/22/13


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Nikki, Mary is "co-redeemer" with Yahushua?? No thanks, the Son of GOD is big enough to handle being mankind's Redeemer on His own.
---Gordon on 5/22/13


Nikki, Mary was sinless? What did Mary call Yahushua? LUKE 1:46-47, "And Mary said, 'My soul doth magnify the LORD, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Here, Nikki, Mary is declaring how God is HER SAVIOUR. Only SINNERS need a Saviour, Nikki. If one is sinless, they don't need a Saviour. If she had truly been born without sin, even by GOD's own Hand, she would not need a Saviour. To say that GOD "preordained Mary's Salvation by creating her 'without sin'" would still state that she was sinless and needed no Salvation at all since GOD would've made her sinless. Because Yahushua is sinless Perfection, no one around Him, no matter how corrupt, could affect Him or corrupt Him. To exalt Mary is to commit Idolatry.
---Gordon on 5/22/13


The false 'mother of God' doctrine is rooted in the false trinity dogma.

In 325CE the trinity doctrine began to be fashioned by pagan Roman Emperor Constantine and the heretical sycophant Athanasius. In 381CE at Constantinople these apostates included the holy spirit as the 3rd person of the trinity.

Then as a spin-off to the trinity apostasy, in 431CE Church leaders officially proclaimed Mary 'Mother of God' at the Council of Ephesus. What triggered this transformation? PopeJohn Paul II explains: 'True devotion to the Mother of God... is very profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity.'- 'Crossing the Threshold of Hope'.

However, the Bible warned the Ephesian elders of such apostasy- Ac.20:17,28-30.
---David8318 on 5/22/13


Blessed Mother

Romans 4:7 - Saying : Blessed are they iniquities are forgiven, and who sins are covered,

Psalms 32:1 - Blessed is he whose transgressions is forgiven , whose sins is covered



Luke 18:19 - No Ones ---> No One
Galatians 5:17 - country ----- > contrary
( sorry for the mistakes - on 5/21/13)
---RICHARDC on 5/22/13


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"True tabernacle: She has God in her womb...Mary remained sinless by GOD'S GRACE...Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus:" -Nikki on 5/20/13

"SINLESS"? Mary who's born of flesh and blood was "sinless"? O wow! Let's see what the Scripture has to say about your comment.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon ALL MEN, FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED" Romans 5:12

Did the Bible made an exception or does this simply means every flesh and blood after Adam? Yes, including Mary. But I'm sure you're going to ask what about Christ? Well, ONLY Christ was begotten of the Father, no one else. Including Mary or John the Baptist.
---christan on 5/21/13


//The girl called her a beautiful lady. Not the Virgin Mary either.//
Neither did I!

//The Bishop told Bernadette to ask who she was since she is requesting a Church?
Bernadette asked her. Our Lady said "I am the Immaculate Conception" (present).//
So you don't believe its was the Blessed Mother. it was!
Present?? Read the bottom of my last post!

//Bernadette not a bright girl kept repeating the words over and over to tell the Bishop.
The Bishop believed her because Bernadette wouldn't know about the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception that came out 4 years earlier in 1854.//
So has something changed?
1Co_1:21,1Co_2:5
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/21/13


Nikki ---- on 5/21/13 - People that have close minds - ------Yes - Mary was saved in the womb and so was John the baptist - What happen when a person becomes saved? - They get a New spirit , but would they not still have a body of flesh ?

Galatians 5,17 - For the flesh lust against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh and these are country to one another, so you do not the things that you wish.

luke 18:19 - So Jesus said to him, why call me good ? No ones is good but one, that One is God.
---RichardC on 5/21/13


Seg, She is said "I am the Immaculate Conception"
Bernadette Soubirous in Lourdes, France kept seeing a woman. The girl called her a beautiful lady. Not the Virgin Mary either.
Every month in 1858 on the 13th, from May to October for 6 months she saw this lady. The Lady told her to tell the Bishop to build a Church.

The Bishop told Bernadette to ask who she was since she is requesting a Church?
Bernadette asked her. Our Lady said "I am the Immaculate Conception" (present).

Bernadette not a bright girl kept repeating the words over and over to tell the Bishop.
The Bishop believed her because Bernadette wouldn't know about the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception that came out 4 years earlier in 1854.
---Nikki on 5/21/13


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The Immaculate Conception states nothing, men make statements.
Just like Quick Draw Mcgraw said i'll do the thinning around here!

To Seg, If you got saved at the age of 10 and another at the age of 85, are not both saved? Salvation from God.
Nikki

And you're right some people have closed minds.
But this is their choice, right? Yet, you say salvation is Gods.

Someone here once asked me, how many people got saved today.
I told them none! But putting this aside, where it should be!

If what you're saying is true then my first statement is true.
And not the second!

The Blessed Mother told her, she (was) the Immaculate Conception.
And not "I am the Immaculate Conception."
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/21/13


Cluny, you are right that it is hard to explain to people who have closed minds.
Leon is willing to understands some things.
Francis explained well with today's post.

To Seg, If you got saved at the age of 10 and another at the age of 85, are not both saved? Salvation from God.

The Immaculate Conception states MARY WAS SAVE AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. Instead of the age of 10 or 85.
BY THE GRACE of GOD, she remained sinless because she had to give Jesus a body not CONTAMINATED with sin for HIM to sacrifice for us.
Read the OT requirement for offerings to God.
Only PERFECT cereal or animal.
Jesus is the Lamb to be Sacrificed for our salvation.

John the Baptist was Saved in the womb of his mother. Luke 1:44
---Nikki on 5/21/13


Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

how do you deferential between mother of my Lord, and Mother of God?

is not the Lord our God?

there are many things in Christianity that are not directly in the bible, trinity, sinner saved by grace, rapture, we still use them proudly.

But in the bible is the phrase "Mother of my lord." Good enough if Jesus is God
---francis on 5/21/13


Since the title is never used of her in the Bible I can find no defence for it. The RCC I know for sure teach that original sin means that we are all born guilty of sin. So Mary had to be sinless in order to have JESUS be sinless. But that is two assumptions that I do not find in the Bible. We are sinners because we sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/21/13


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//Mary born sinless: As Adam, Eve and John the Baptist. Only Mary remained sinless by GOD'S GRACE//

This is a belief many have. Because Bernarde Soubirous said she (The blessed Mother) told her, she was the Immaculate Conception.

Mary was not born sinless.
Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

//Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus: NOT co-redeemer as you think it means, but as you and I help others to Christ.//

No! Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No one on earth can change this!
God is the only one who bring you to Christ
No one else, Peace
---TheSeg on 5/21/13


Please forgive me and I want to say I'm sorry.
I believe I used the word (was) she was the Immaculate Conception.

Sorry, the word is (is) she is the Immaculate Conception.
As in (I am the Immaculate Conception!)

Just thought you should know.
Even if you don't believe, Marie-Bernarde Soubirous!

I think you should also know I do.
I have to!
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/21/13


Can we please limit this discussion to "Theotokos/Mother of God"?
---Cluny on 5/21/13

No problem.

God is a title, not a person. Jesus is a person who is also God, again a title.

Unless, I am missing something in either Greek or English, Theotokos - God-Bearer is incorrect gramatically, because a title (God) does get born of a woman.

And reviewing the passage that "gave birth" to the word (Luke 1:43), Elisabeth comes no where close to saying the word theotokos. The word theotokos is made up, a creation of a person, not the creation of God through the Holy Scriptures.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/21/13


There has never been a perfect mother on this earth to date.
We have one perfect Father in heaven, who came down to meet us where we are and lift us to where we should be.
---micha9344 on 5/21/13


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Last time I checked, if someone gave birth to you, they were your mother.

Mary gave birth to Jesus, thus she is his mother

That did not make Jesus any less God that he was before his birth

Luke 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Unless your Lord is someone else, then Mary of the mother of your Lord, and that lord is God

This is the work of God ( the father) and is beyound the understanding of humans

I accept it, can I explain it: No one can
---francis on 5/21/13


True tabernacle: She has God in her womb...Mary remained sinless by GOD'S GRACE...Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus:
---Nikki on 5/20/13

Jesus is the TRUE tabernacle, (God in a temporary dwelling).

2 Pet 1:14 "Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me"

Mary cannot be sinless, only God is sinless.

Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

RCC discusses Mary as a co-redeemer by the mixing of her blood with Jesus. But only by the shedding of His blood are we redeemed:

Heb 9:22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission"
---Mark_Eaton on 5/21/13


willie c, The same would apply to king David as it does to Mary. A human being can never be the true parent of Divinity. A created thing can never be greater it's Creator. Why so determined to call Mary or king David the "mother of" and "father of" God? We know that GOD is Spirit, for JOHN 4:24a says "GOD is a Spirit...". The Son of GOD is Spirit, and He took on the Flesh-and-Blood Body of a Man, I JOHN 4:3. So the Son, Who initially is Spirit (become Flesh) was Son of the Father and conceived of the Holy Spirit, LUKE 1:35. Thus, "...and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit.", JOHN 3:6. Making the Holy Spirit the truer Mother of Yahushua.
---Gordon on 5/21/13


Nikki, what is the point of discussing Marian dogmas with people who don't even get the CHRISTOLOGICAL dogma of Theotokos (which it really is)?

Can we please limit this discussion to "Theotokos/Mother of God"?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/21/13


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Nikki, The problem is the RCC's terminology! "Mother of God" is not the best choice of words. To the outsiders and unlearned it is confusing and deceptive. As a Church, Nikki, the RCC is to be responsible not to say or do anything that would cause weaker ones to stumble! ROMANS 14:21. That means ANYTHING that is said and done by Believers. The following are RCC stumbling blocks: The "sinlessness" and "perpectual virginity" of Mary, calling Mary "mother of God", "praying to Heavenly Saints", "Purgatory", the "bowing before statues and images". All these can be very misleading and APPEAR to be wrong and sinful. I THESSALONIANS 5:22 says to abstain from all APPEARANCE of evil.
---Gordon on 5/21/13


Nikki on 5/20/13 - Help others to Christ,

1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, The man Christ Jesus,

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am
the way the truth and the life , no man cometh unto the father , But by ME.

Nikki - Christ said He's The mediator, Why in the World are you , and other people looking for some one else - when Christ said He is IT ! ---------------> THE ONE !

NO place in the Bible say's Mary is Sinless,

Romans 3:23 - For ALL have sinned , and come short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore as by one man sin enter into the world, and death passed upon ALL men ,for that ALL have sin.

---RichardC on 5/21/13


There isn't a "Mother of God". Mary is the Mother of the flesh and blood man Jesus and the Spirit of God was over Mary and she conceived Jesus in the womb. Seems to me that would make her more like the wife of God which isn't true either since in heaven they neither Mary nor are they given in marriage. That title is just another example of a man made doctrine. No Bible to back it up. Blessings
---Darlene_1 on 5/21/13


Well, Gordon, what about when Jesus asked why David calls Him "Lord", when He is also called the "Son of David"?

If Jesus is the Son of David, then doesn't this mean David is Jesus' father, which would make David the father of God?

I think Mary would be busy with praying, not with what label she is supposed to have! I think David would be laughing and choking and croaking, to know ones were worrying about that, since Jesus wants us to all have equality in His love > John 17:20-26. Difference in labels and positions does not make us different in His family love.
---willie_c: on 5/21/13


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Never mind luny. You're such a Muppet Show, know it all, grumpy ol' man. I should've known better than to engage you in conversation. My bad, won't happen again!
---Leon on 5/20/13


Assumption is so important? --Mark_Eaton

CCC 966...The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of the other Christians..
Mary is the FIRST disciple. Luke 2:19

True tabernacle: She has God in her womb. Jesus is the TRUE ONE.

Mary born sinless: As Adam, Eve and John the Baptist. Only Mary remained sinless by GOD'S GRACE

Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus: NOT co-redeemer as you think it means, but as you and I help others to Christ.
We point others to Jesus as the answer to their Salvation. We are helping Jesus as asked by Jesus.
But not a dogma of the RCC because so many get confused on that word as you just did.
---Nikki on 5/20/13


she's been reported to have been seen in the persons of Our Lady of Lourdes as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe. Only God and His angels appear and reappears like that UNLESS the Lord has chosen to send Mary back to bless the Church. Hey ~ mind wide open!!!:)---Leon

Thanks, your last comment is correct, because God can do anything.

But, who claims to pray 'thru' Mary?

Only you all claim she is a goddess of some sort. We never said so, and keep telling you all stop claiming we have, but you all close your minds to that answer.

None of you all GO DIRECTLY TO GOD, but demand us to go directly to God.

How fair is that?
---Nikki on 5/20/13


\\The RCC pray "thru" Mary to intercede, to God, on their behalf. Prayer should be directed only to God. \\

Then never ask anyone to pray for you.

\\Apparently, the RCC think because Mary was the earthly "mother of God" she must be a goddess of sort.\\

Wrong again, as in almost everything you say.

You will find NOTHING in official RC statements that says that Mary is a goddess of any sort. In fact, you will find repudiation of this half-baked notion.

The only one who thinks that Mary is a deity is YOU.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/13


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1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

trying to unravel the mystery of Hod God was placed in a human womb?
---francis on 5/20/13


"I don't know anyone who does, and what's more you don't either, even if you merely think you do.[?!!!]
\\She wasn't & isn't deity\\
Who said she was?...!"
---Cluny on 5/20/13


luny: The RCC pray "thru" Mary to intercede, to God, on their behalf. Prayer should be directed only to God. Apparently, the RCC think because Mary was the earthly "mother of God" she must be a goddess of sort. Afterall, she's been reported to have been seen in the persons of Our Lady of Lourdes as well as Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Only God & His angels appear & reappears like that UNLESS the Lord has chosen to send Mary back to bless the Church.

Hey ~ mind wide open!!! :)
---Leon on 5/20/13


First and foremost, God Almighty (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) is eternal - meaning He is not a created being like you and I nor the angels and devils.

Mary was the mother of the Son of Man Jesus Christ not His deity of God. And there was a purpose why Christ has to be born as a man, Paul taught,

"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons."

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!"
---christan on 5/20/13


\\Veneration of Mary as a goddess is out of context, unbibilical. \\

I don't know anyone who does, and what's more you don't either, even if you merely think you do.

\\She wasn't & isn't deity\\

Who said she was?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/20/13


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When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Many of you say, see he didn't call her mother at the cross.
And yet you do understand there was only one who could bare that cross.

But, I just got to say I love what he told his disciple!
Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

I know, I'm not telling you anything.
Yet, Elisabeth being filled with the Holy Spirit called her mother of my Lord!

Christ said:
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Peace
---TheSeg on 5/20/13


Mary is the Mother of God, in NO WAY states Mary is Divine.
---Nikki on 5/20/13

Even though you say Mary is not divine, please explain why The Assumption is so important. Both Orthodox and RCC accept the Assumption as fact.

By accepting The Assumption, you venerate and elevate Mary above a mere mortal woman. I have read on Orthodox sites that Mary is the fulfillment of Israel's calling, the reason Israel was a chosen race. On RCC sites, I have seen Mary called the true tabernacle, the New Jerusalem, that Mary was born sinless, and that Mary is a co-redeemer with Jesus.

All these ideas are based upon traditions or are based upon books written CENTURIES after the fact. No Scriptural basis.
---Mark_Eaton on 5/20/13


Genesis 1:26 Then God said, Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,...

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind..... 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

There is no mention of Mary in these passages. Christ was there at Creation. HE allowed himself to be born of Mary, to come in human form. When He came to earth, He laid aside His glory.

IT IS an insult to God to call Mary His mother.
---Grandma on 5/20/13




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