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Thou Shalt Not Kill

Many seem to believe that Jesus' having fulfilled the requirements of the Ten Commandment Law means that the Law was done away with for Christians. To those I would ask: Just how did He fulfill "Thou shalt not kill"? Has murder stopped? Is murder now acceptable for Christians?

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 ---jerry6593 on 5/30/13
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To be in Christ results in us loving GOD and loving others. When we love GOD are not the first four of the Ten Commandments about loving GOD by treating Him with respect and spending time with Him.

The last six are about loving others so should we not as lovers of others not refrain from hurting others as described by them.

The other Sabbaths deals with prophecy and pointed to JESUS. The Fourth commandments points backward to Creation and forward to our new life in heaven.

We worship our creator and understand we are all sinners. But Our LORD came to deliver us from sin. So we are to follow JESUS in his power.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/20/13


Elder: "promoting a pagan calendar that was designed by pagan false worshipers"

You can't mean that. The seven-day weekly cycle was designed by God Himself - not by pagans. This cycle is independent of man-made calendars, and as the US Naval Observatory attests, the cycle was unaffected by the Gregorian calendar change.

I do not worship a day. I worship the God who instituted one holy day a week as a memorial to His authority as Creator. Whom do you worship for instituting Sunday?



---jerry6593 on 6/21/13


MarkV: "Jerry, no one can reason with an SDA like you and francis."

Sure you can! Just show us from the Bible where God renounced His own handwritten Law commanding Sabbath observance on the 7th day and instituted Sabbath observance on the first day of the week. We'll be waiting.

You never did say which day of the week that YOU believe is the seventh today. Why not? All you have shown so far is a religion of ignorance since you claim not to know which day God wants you to keep. If ignorance is truly bliss, then you must be ecstatic.



---jerry6593 on 6/21/13


---Mark_V. on 6/20/13

Are you forgetting that there is a command written in the law of God to keep the sabbath day holy? What then would you call one who choose not to obey God's law?

the bible says lawless

---A_servant on 6/18/13
At the end of the day, ask yourself, what did God command in his Law, everyday or the sabbath day?

---Elder on 6/19/13
REALLY? Are you really going to stick with that? You do not know which day of the week is the first or seventh?
You think Jesus had the days wrong?

Come on
---francis on 6/20/13


Jerry there is no confusion for me. On the other hand you are promoting a pagan calendar that was designed by pagan false worshipers. You also claim it to be true.
I know very well what "modern" days have been set apart for worship.
It appears that the SDA worship Saturday itself. They try to show superiority because of a certain day. The Bible tells us that we are weak in the faith when we do that.
Again, explain to me why you only "worship" or observe just one Sabbath.
---Elder on 6/20/13




Elder: I know that MarkV is confused as to which day of the week is the seventh, but I didn't think you were. Most of the world is in agreement on this. Just look at a calendar, consult a dictionary or encyclopedia, or ask one of the millions of Jews who have kept the Sabbath "religiously" for centuries. Best of all, note which day Jesus kept and follow Him. The US Naval Observatory has written that the weekly Sunday-Saturday cycle has been uninterrupted since the time of Christ. Whatever day He kept is the one I want to keep! How about you?



---jerry6593 on 6/20/13


Jerry, no one can reason with an SDA like you and francis. If someone does not adhere to Saturday Sabbath, they are the lawless ones. Your very words.
I admit, I am a sinner saved by the Grace of God. And I admit that Christ kept the Law perfectly for me. You want to be under the Letter of the Law, and not in Christ, that's your choice.
"And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the New Covenant, not of the Letter but of the Spirit, For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor. 3:4-6).
---Mark_V. on 6/20/13


Every moment should be in appreciation for the sacrifice made on our behalf, not spent debating which day of the week loving God should be confined to.
---A_servant on 6/18/13

Well put servant.
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
---Trav on 6/20/13


Again, there is no way that Jerry or anyone else can state what day the 1st or the 7th days are or was.
There was not a day named Saturday, Sunday or so on when God created this world.
The Egyptian's used numbers to refer to the months of the year. There were only 30 days in a month.
The Egyptian New Years day was July 20th. Their year ended up being 1/4 day shorter than the Solar year.
So, maybe all of the legalist "Saturday Sabbath worshipers" should be "worshipping" on Tuesday in all reality.
Of course we can't woship and condemn at the same time.
---Elder on 6/19/13


Peter: The Greek words for the Lord's Day given in Strong's Concordance of the KJV in Rev 1:10 [not Rev 1:9] is "kuriakos hemera" - which translates as "Lord's Day" and nothing else. No mention is made of Sunday. You must be using a modern translation based on the corrupt Latin Vulgate.

All of your arguments about Sunday are mere conjectures of men and are not biblical in origin.

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.


---jerry6593 on 6/19/13




Many of your arguments are valid, and have their own strengths and faults, but regardless of Sunday or Sabbath, EVERY day should be a day to remember the resurrection. Regardless of when it was observed, Jesus healed people on the Sabbath and himself declared that it had been fulfilled. The point He tried to make was that every moment, even when at work, is the Sabbath. Every moment should be in appreciation for the sacrifice made on our behalf, not spent debating which day of the week loving God should be confined to.
---A_servant on 6/18/13


jerry: On point 1, you are right, though I see no reason not to take some time not to work if we take that time to remember Jesus resurrection

For point 2, the point of the Lord's Day is actually quoted in Res 1:9, but not obvious in English - the Greek word is used until this day for Sunday - meaning John uses that word in Res 1:9 (which most translations translate as Lord's Day) but now would be just translated as Sunday. I take that to mean that by that time some change had occurred, from the gospels where they use the term the first day of the week to revelation where a new word was used.

The Bible does not ordain Sunday as a day of anything, but is there anything wrong in using it as a day of remembering the resurrection?
---Peter9556 on 6/18/13


Peter: While I appreciate your intercession as a peacemaker, I would, nevertheless, like to make a few points.

1) The Bible not only commands rest on God's seventh-day Sabbath, it also commands WORK on the other six days - including Sunday.

2) Sunday is never called the Lord's Day in Scripture, but the Sabbath is.

3) The Bible does not ordain Sunday as a memorial of the resurrection, but rather baptism.

Just thought you might like to know. As for MarkV, there's no reasoning with him. I have tried for years.



---jerry6593 on 6/18/13


Jerry, Mark, don't argue so much. There is now something to be remembered for both days (Saturday and Sunday). Saturday is to be remembered as the day God rested, and we are to rest, but (as Jesus pointed out with the lame man He healed) not with fixed rules. But yes, on the Sabbath we are to rest.

On the first day of the week, or the Lord's Day (Rev 1:9, NIV) we remember Jesus' resurrection, and the name of the day had already changed in the lifetime of the apostles. So Sunday is also to be remembered, and we are to celebrate the resurrection then
---Peter9556 on 6/16/13


Jerry, there you go again, slandering those who disagree with your Saturday Sabbath. Calling us lawless ones does not in anyway make you sinless. In fact just saying what you said proofs that sin is in your heart. Go ahead and do Saturday Sabbath, be a hypocrite, like the pharisees, show how holy you are on the outside, pretend God does not see your heart. The legalist of Jesus day were the Pharisees and Jesus reserved His strongest criticism for them. The Pharisees believed that due to their scrupulous adherence to the law, they were the children of God. But at the core, this was a denial of the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 6/16/13


Samuel: It is amazing to see the mental gymnastics that these lawless ones go through to try to prove that Jesus (the One they claim to follow) didn't really mean what He said when He wrote the Ten Commandments and later declared that they would remain in force as long as heaven and earth remained.

And why do they do this? They claim that it is out of love, and yet Jesus said "If you love Me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS." I wonder if their parents felt the love when they disobeyed them.



---jerry6593 on 6/15/13


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Jerry, you and francis always ask the same question, what did Jesus fulfilled. Have you ever heard of the Covenant of Redemption? You should check this out. It is a Covenant that our Truine God made. The Father with the Son, and the Holy Spirit with both the Father and the Son. A Covenant in eternity past, before the foundation of the world. The Father fulfilled His side of the Covenant, and so did the Son and the Spirit. More on that later on.
---Mark_V. on 6/15/13


Jerry, I believe it is very simple. If you are under the law, abiding to keep the law, you are not in Christ. The Law of God points out the duty of man, requiering from him that which is right and just. The law cannot be altered in the least. The penalty of the Law on man cannot be removed nor the transgressor released until full satisfaction has been made to it. "Christ fulfilled the Law perfectly for us as believers." Know why? As Paul says in (2 Tim. 1:9)
God saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of His own purpose and grace, which He gave us in Christ before the ages began"
The Law is very much in effect, it is condemning everyone under the Law. They need Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/13


JESUS said. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Now some say here it is destroyed for the Christian. That goes against what JESUS said. The Bible says the purpose of the law is to show us we are sinners who need to be saved by Grace. Romans 3 Gal 2. And to define sin. First John.

As a Christian I am to walk and live in love. Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

When we love as GOD wants us to do we follow the Spirit and the letter. Because GOD has saved us and filled us with His love.

So fulfill does not mean do away with other wise love would not be what fulfills the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/13/13


Actually, you are looking at this with misdirected eyes, Jesus did away with the ultimate penalty for killing only for those who truly repent.
---A_servant on 6/13/13


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Trav: "You claim to be Israel?

Of course! Don't you?

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
---jerry6593 on 6/13/13

You might be...for some sign I've seen on your heart. The passionate disgust you have for the leaders of today for example. But, you seldom recognize a double witness by prophets.
You stop a little short in your reading.....
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Isa_65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit, they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
---Trav on 6/13/13


Trav: "You claim to be Israel?

Of course! Don't you?

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Micha: You are on dangerous ground. With such statements as "Yes, for the unbeliever", you seem to be asserting your "right" to sin by mere belief in God. Micha, Jesus did not come to save you from the law, but from sin.



---jerry6593 on 6/13/13


MarkV: You can't have it both ways. Either you are under the New Covenant with GOD'S LAW written on your heart, or you are NOT under the New Covenant because you don't have GOD'S LAW written on your heart. ---jerry6593 on 6/5/13

Well you make it so simple that you cannot claim the covenant made with Israel.
You claim to be Israel?

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 6/11/13


-jerry6593 on 6/10/13
1) Do you have God's Law written on your heart?
--All believers have God's Royal Law written in their hearts-the Law of Love and Liberty.
2) Is the Law against murder still in force?
--Yes, for the unbeliever (1Tim 1:9)
3) Did Jesus eliminate the requirement to keep the 10 C Law?
--Yes, The Royal Law fulfills all.
4) Did Jesus fulfill the penalty of the 10 C Law - death?
--Yes, one of the differences between the redeemed and unredeemed.
4) Are the 10 C the standard by which sin is judged?
--Yes, though we will not be judged with the world. We are set free from sin.
--This also includes the Keeping of the Sabbath, for we find rest for our souls in Christ(Matt 11:29)
---micha9344 on 6/11/13


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jerry, markv said it correctly. I SAID: JESUS CAME TO FULFILL THE LAW. He came to die for our sin. now you can harp on whatever makes you diddy but I know no one can keep the commandments...not me...not you....not anyone else. Jesus Christ is the only one who can't sin.
---shira4368 on 6/11/13


Shira, there is no answer that will satisfy Jerry or francis. They keep asking questions to find fault in the answers people give. They are who they are by the will of God. Just like there is those who bring the Truth, there is others who bring a lie. They cover their own sins, as if they were not sinners themselves. Remember I told you that people did not have a free will? Jerry thinks he has it, but is so much in bondage to sin, that he has no freedom. He is under the written letter of the Law. Everything he ask or say, is a smoke screen, to present the Seventh Day Sabbath. He needs to be freed from the Law by Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/13


Shira: You have chosen the path of our friend MarkV, in that you refuse to answer simple, direct questions, and instead replay the same old, worn out denomination-speak. Either Jesus came to destroy the 10 C or He did not. You seem unable to articulate which you think it is.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law .... if it were not so, I would have told you. (Joh 14:2)


---jerry6593 on 6/11/13


jerry, I will say it again, Jesus came to fulfill the law. we are under grace. that does not mean we can go around killing anyone. it is against God and the laws of the land. my sin is covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. my body will sin and so will yours. we are as filthy rags even tho our souls are saved. we are still flesh. no one and not even you can keep all the laws. if you think you can, you deceive yourself. we don't even have to be saved to know murder and adultery is sin. so is railings, coveting what your neighbor has, looking on a woman to lust and other things too numerous to mention.
---shira4368 on 6/10/13


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Shira: We have already established that love is not all there is in the cases of euthanasia and adultery. I do not think that you have answered my questions directly, so I will recast them as YES - NO questions and expect single word answers ONLY.

1) Do you have God's Law written on your heart? Y or N?

2) Is the Law against murder still in force? Y or N?

3) Did Jesus eliminate the requirement to keep the 10 C Law? Y or N

4) Did Jesus fulfill the penalty of the 10 C Law - death? Y or N?

4) Are the 10 C the standard by which sin is judged? Y or N?


---jerry6593 on 6/10/13


mark: Your last post appears to be another plagiarism. It is OK to copy someone else's words if you enclose them in quotes and give the reference.

Mark, what you are missing is the sacrifice of Christ. You're not a Christian because you're better, smarter, chosen or because you try to break the Law. If the Law could be eliminated by legislative fiat (as you imply), then Christ need not have died on the cross. But, the 10 C Law defines sin, and the wages of sin is death. Thus, for each of our transgressions of the Law, someone has to pay the wages. Jesus fulfilled our debt by His death on the cross. If the 10 C Law doesn't matter anymore, then Jesus' death was for nothing.



---jerry6593 on 6/10/13


Jerry, we are not judged by the Ten Commandments, but by God. The Commandments were given so that we could know what sin is. Sin is a failure to do what God commands, sin of Omission. If God commands us to love our neighbor and we fail we sin. Sin is also defined as transgression of the laws of God. To transgress the law is to cross its boundaries. To overstep its limits. We walk where we are not permitted to walk that's sin. When we do what is wrong we disobey God, we sin. All human beings are sinners. All come short of the glory of God.
What you want to speak of is about the 4th Commandment because you worship on Saturdays. No matter how many Saturdays you worship, you are still a sinner, no better then those who worship on Sundays.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/13


well Jerry I will try to grow up for a moment and answer you. I think most people know not to kill. Paul was a murderer of Christians til God blinded him. when you love your neighbor as yourself you are not going to kill anyone. Luke 10:27..thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbor as thyself. I think that pretty much covers it.
---shira4368 on 6/9/13


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shira: "you are not talking to a 5 yr old."

Good! Then I shall expect cogent, straightforward answers to my questions without all the obfuscation and circumlocution.

1) How can you be under the New Covenant without having God's Law written on your heart?

2) How did Jesus fulfill "Thou shalt not kill"? Is that Law still in force?

3) Do you agree or disagree with my contention that Jesus' fulfillment of the Law did not eliminate the requirement to keep the Law - He fulfilled the penalty of the law - death.

4) As a Baptist, surely you believe that there is punishment for sin. What is the standard by which sin is judged if not the Ten Commandment Law?



---jerry6593 on 6/9/13


Jerry, what you are missing is the sacrifice of Christ. Your not a Christian because your better, smarter, or because you try to keep the law, or because you possess a softer heart than others. You are a Christian because the Father chose you in the Son, and the Son fulfilled the conditions for your salvation, and the Spirit applied to you the redemptive benefits of the Son's work.
So that when you are tempted to doubt your salvation, you can remember that Christ said, "It is finished" and that the Father is satisfied with the work of the Son. Your salvation remains secure, not because of anything you do, but because Christ finished the work the Father gave Him to accomplish and satified God's justice for you as a believer.
---Mark_V. on 6/9/13


jerry, you are not talking to a 5 yr old. I know Christ came to fulfill the law. if we can love God wih all our being, the other laws are natural. if you say I approve of euthanasia, you are wrong. murder is murder. abortion is murder but it is done with the blessings of the government. murder is murder.
---shira4368 on 6/8/13


shira: "does that answer your question?"

NO! Not at all. You miss the entire point. Have you ever heard of euthanasia? It involves killing someone you love. So, love, by itself is not sufficient. The Law prohibiting murder is still in effect. Similarly, it is possible to be in love with someone in an adulterous affair. But the Law prohibiting adultery is still in effect.

Jesus' fulfillment of the Law did not eliminate the requirement to keep the Law - He fulfilled the penalty of the law - death.


---jerry6593 on 6/8/13


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jerry, your hung up on the Law. I have given you the reasons why we are not under the law many times. You say it's a fantasy what I say, yet I put down Scripture for you. You think the Word of God is fantasy. If you were not hung up on the Law because of Saturday Sabbath, you would know the Truth and it would set you free. Let me help you.
When I say that it is God who saves people, it is because of people like you, who presume to have free will, yet continuely keep rejecting the Truth. You cannot help yourself. yet you say you have free will. You are in bondage to your denomination. Your will is in bondage, it is not free. You do not have free will. You choose what you like. The lost do not choose Christ because they do not love Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/8/13


markv,I did read your post and the way you said it is what I believe. I already told you how some of your explanations confuse many on this site. I know who the chosen are. the chosen are the saved and all who believe are the chosen. the way you make it sound is certain ones are chosen for salvation.
---shira4368 on 6/7/13


well, jerry Christ came to fulfill the law and not to enforce it. jerry, the law hinges on one thing. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and soul then all else will fall into place. does that answer your question?
---shira4368 on 6/7/13


Well Jerry I do not expect Mark to answer your questions but he could surprise me.

Mark you publish the verse with your commentaries inside of it. If this was the only verse we had to go on then I would agree with you. But we must compare all scripture to find truth. Other scriptures speak of the call to all people and the sacrifice for all people.

In the Bible there is no biblical basis for limited atonement, Irresistible grace and unconditional election. This verse says to me GOD knows who will be saved. It does not say GOD forces men to save.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/7/13


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Shira: I also sometimes agree with MarkV, but in this instance, you are both unable to answer two simple questions:

1) How can you be under the New Covenant without having God's Law written on your heart?

2) How did Jesus fulfill "Thou shalt not kill"? Is that Law still in force?

MarkV has not been able to answer these questions. Can you?



---jerry6593 on 6/7/13


Sis. Shira, read this.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,"who has bless us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places," Paul is talking about 'us' believers, the elect. "even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world," This believers God chose in Christ before the foundation of the world.
"that we should be holy blameless before Him. In love He predestine 'us' for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will," In love He predestine us, by His will "to the praise of His glorious grace with which He has blessed us in the beloved" (Eph. 1:3-6).
---Mark_V. on 6/7/13


jerry, I don't believe everything markv says. I believe Christ died for all and not a few He has chosen. the bible tells me Christ died for the whole world. I can agree with markv on some things. I believe sin starts with the eyes. what we see goes to our minds and is then corrupted if allowed. that is why we must be careful what we see.
---shira4368 on 6/6/13


\You guys are making the mistake of thinking that the law you are no longer under is the 10 Commandments. Paul spoke of several "laws". You've got the wrong one.\-jerry6593 on 6/6/13
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
\...other writers also list the ten commandments and add thou shall love thy neighbour as thy self\-francis on 6/6/13
Mat 5:43 No 10C
Mat 19:19 Yes, 10C kept, no avail.
Mat 22:39 10C under LTN
Mark 12:31 No other commandment greater.--None
Luke 10:27 No 10C.
Why would I even consider invalid commandments if, by following the greatest, it fulfills the rest?
---micha9344 on 6/6/13


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micha9344 on 6/5/13

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

If I understand you correctly, by reading this verse you say that the royal law is Thou shall love thy neigbour as thyself. To that I say O.K

I myself read the whole context, and I see that James is talking about the ten commandments, other writers also list the ten commandments and add thou shall love thy neighbour as thy self

To me whether you use the comprehension thou shall love, or list all ten, the results are the same, obedience to the commandments of God
---francis on 6/6/13


Sis. Shira, you are so right when you say,
"no one couldn't keep the law even if they stayed in the house all day and didn't see one person. no matter how hard you try, it can't be done as long as we are in the flesh."
Sin arises from the heart and in the mind. Jesus said, that you commit adultery by just looking at a woman with lust in our eyes. We are commiting murder when we slander someone wrongly. Jesus also said,
"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All this evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark. 7:21-23).
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


Shira: "jerry, please listen to markv, he is absolutely correct on law and grace."

MarkV is NOT correct on this or any of his other theological fantasies (e.g. he was "saved" from the foundation of the earth). He has several times claimed to know the motives of my heart (God's job - not his) in that he claims that I attempt to comply with God's Commands out of pride or salvation by works - even though I have told him that is not the case.

Jesus told us to keep and teach the Commandments out of love for Him. This I do. You guys are making the mistake of thinking that the law you are no longer under is the 10 Commandments. Paul spoke of several "laws". You've got the wrong one.


---jerry6593 on 6/6/13


micha9344 on 6/5/13
yes you sayit is JAMES
James is the only one to use the phrase " royal law"

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

see ten commandments
You cannot say it is love thy neigbour only, or else what of love for God
---francis on 6/5/13


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micha9344 on 6/5/13
yes you sayit is JAMES
James is the only one to use the phrase " royal law"

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet, and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---francis on 6/5/13


\where in the bible did you see the phrase royal law, which writer uses it, and what is his reference?
what doe she mean by royallaw\-francis on 6/5/13
Jam 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.(NASB)
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Don't take your doctrines from a disillusioned ex-Millerite false prophetess.
---micha9344 on 6/5/13


jerry, please listen to markv, he is absolutely correct on law and grace. we are not under the law, we are under grace. I thank God that everything I do God can forgive. no one couldn't keep the law even if they stayed in the house all day and didn't see one person. no matter how hard you try, it can't be done as long as we are in the flesh.
---shira4368 on 6/5/13


where in the bible did you see the phrase royal law, which writer uses it, and what is his reference?
what doe she mean by royallaw
---francis on 6/5/13


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The Ten Commandments are only a shadow of the Royal Law that is written in the heart of the believer, Love God and your neighbor.
The 10C are passive: you do not have to lift a finger to obey them.
The Royal Law of Love is active, requiring effort against the flesh to fulfill.
One can fulfill the 10C by obeying the Law of Love, but one does not necessarily fulfill the Law of Love by obeying the 10C.
It is obvious to those who are in Christ and have His Spirit within.
It is not so with the natural man.
2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious ... which [glory] was to be done away:
---micha9344 on 6/5/13


Jerry, I am not having it both ways. I have it one way only. It doesn't matter which answer I give you, I know I cannot change your heart. At least twenty people have answered every single question you have asked and it's done nothing for you. Not one ioda. In fact it makes you and francis more defiant then ever.
Do you not know that our good deeds without Christ are useless? That no matter how much you try to keep the law without Christ, is sin? Your own good deeds are but pride which is more sin. You will not know good unless it comes from above. Can you say,
"I have made my heart clean, I am pure from sin?" (Prov. 20:9). The only thing different between you and everyone else is your pride.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/13


MarkV: You can't have it both ways. Either you are under the New Covenant with GOD'S LAW written on your heart, or you are NOT under the New Covenant because you don't have GOD'S LAW written on your heart. Why do you argue so with God's Commands? Is Sunday so sacred to you that you will go to any length to keep it? Do you also fight for your right to lie, steal, commit adultery and murder with the same zeal? Do you think God is pleased with your disobedience? Do you know what they call you in heaven for teaching Commandment breaking? See Mat 5:19.


---jerry6593 on 6/5/13


If you do not belief that Jesus fulfilled the law, then it's ok by us.
---Mark_V. on 6/4/13

Then answer the blog question:

Just how did He fulfill "Thou shalt not kill"? Has murder stopped? Is murder now acceptable for Christians?
---jerry6593 on 5/30/13
---francis on 6/4/13


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Jerry, your attempt to put new covenant believers under the written letter of the Law is not working. No matter how you explain it, the bottom line is that you want people to be under the Law and have Saturday Sabbath. All the questions you ask are but a smoke screen. If you do not belief that Jesus fulfilled the law, then it's ok by us. You can continue under the law all you want. But I tell you a Truth that Jesus spoke of that is not in the Ten Commandments.
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts-murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, blasphemies, this are the things that defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man" (Matt. 15:
---Mark_V. on 6/4/13


mike: Your comments appear self-contradictory. On the one hand, you say:

"Fulfill does not mean to do away with, put an end to or stop something."

And yet, within the same paragraph, you say:

"God gave only one law. The 10 commandments are part of the Old covenant. Which we are not under."

What makes you think that you are no longer under the Ten Commandment Law, or that there was a change in the Law under the New Covenant? The Bible gives no hint of a change in the Law with the change of the Covenants. The only change mentioned is a change in location - heart vs. stone. We are no longer under the levitical sacrificial law, which ended with the Cross.



---jerry6593 on 6/4/13


joel Olsten is not Baptist. I think he is non-denominational. none of the non denominational even believe the same as Baptist. southern Baptist have gone so liberal in the past 30 years, I don't even believe the way they do.
---shira4368 on 6/3/13


Shira, I think you're referring to the Westboro Baptist Church. I am not a Baptist, but I agree they do not represent Baptists or Christianity in any way.
---Jed on 6/3/13


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Dear Shira

I agree not all Baptist are the same. I have heard many a wonderful Baptist sermon. I have also heard some that got on my nevers. Joel Olsten who I do not listen to much. Has a sermon on Utube about we should not eat unclean food. There was another here in Texas from Corpus Christi who also said it was not healthy. They agreeded with us that it was bad for us.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/13


Samuel, don't put all Baptist in the same category as the one who protest everything under the sun. they give Christianity a bad bad name. they are not part of the saved or they would not do that. I can't remember their name but you know who I am talking about.
---shira4368 on 6/2/13


The ultimate law is LOVE...

upon which the two laws Jesus spoke of hang, upon which the ten commandments hang, upon which the 613 laws of Moses and the other laws of the prophets hang.

It is written that if we love God we shall keep his commandments.

When Jesus says he fulfilled the law what he says is that he performed his duties of keeping the commandments. You, too, can be resurrected as Jesus did when you obey the ten commandments. The ultimate law is love, genuine love, working love.
---Steveng on 6/2/13


We don't need a law "thou shalt not kill", not because killing is now acceptable, but because this specific prohibition is no longer necessary, already being included by a much broader commandment.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/13

very good.

jesus was here to tell us there is a much broader definition to what we consider sinful.

it seems that jesus was saying that even if you call your brother a fool, you do not have to produce a body in order to be guilty of judgment.

I do not see anger, insults, and judgmental language in the 10 commandments.

I see them now in the two great commandments.
---aka on 6/2/13


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Fulfill does not mean to do away with,put an end to or stop something. Jesus did not stop murder, nor did He stop sin.Sin is the transgression of the Law.We are all sinners. Where there is no law there is no sin.We are not under the law nor the Old covenant. So which law are we not under? God gave only one law. The 10 commandments are part of the Old covenant. Which we are not under.So are you trying to put me back under the Old covenant?
---mike on 6/2/13


Jesus told us that the most important commandments were to love God above all else, and to love one's neighbor as oneself.

If one does these things, one doesn't need to be told not to murder, steal, lie, cheat, etc. - because one could never even conceive of doing such things.

We don't need a law "thou shalt not kill", not because killing is now acceptable, but because this specific prohibition is no longer necessary, already being included by a much broader commandment.
---StrongAxe on 5/31/13


The moral laws especially the Ten Commandments tell us what sin is. We need to know we are sinners so the law convicts us of sin. One Street witnessing Baptist group is very famous for this.

When we love GOD and love others we want to spend time with GOD and help others. Why? Because we love GOD. Love and the Ten Commandments are related to each other. To break laws of the Ten Commandments requires that you do not love people or GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/31/13


Fulfilling the law that we keep the Sabbath >

Jesus fulfilled this by bringing us to His rest.

In the Sabbath commandment we have > "In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor you daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant" (in Exodus 20:10). So, we are required to make sure even servants get the benefit of rest . . . rest like we ourselves get.

So, I can see this is a love your neighbor as yourself commandment, that we love our servants, also, as ourselves, by wanting them also to get the good of Sabbath rest.

This can bring us to loving servants always, by not only using them, but caring personally for them as ourselves.
---willie_c: on 5/31/13


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For those biggy sins we have the penal code.
---Love.wins on 5/30/13


The law was not done away with. It was fulfilled. The only one ever.

Before his resurrection, he amplified that murder does not require a dead body. Almost all of us are guilty of that.

But I guaranty if you are perfect in your execution of the summation of the commandments as Jesus gave, you can fulfill the law too.

To do this God gives us the fruit of his spirit in Galatians 5.
---aka on 5/30/13


I think jerry is asking exactly how did Christ fulfill Thou shall not kill?
Maybe someone can explain the resurrection to him.

I try once! I dont think he believed me or he cant understand it.
I dont know which.

He and a few others seem to think, everyone is saying the law was done away with.
Because they want to live in Christ, but cant admit to him theyre guilty of sin.
And still go to God free of sin. I think its because they think, they keep the law.

I think Christ was very clear. When he said:
Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
That you love each other, as Christ loves you!
Just saying he Forgave you!
---TheSeg on 5/30/13


When the Bible says the law is fullfilled many by that mean done away with. But that is not the meaning of the law.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Many here make fuflil and destroy mean the same thing which goes against what JESUS said.

The law had many parts. Moral, Cermonial, and judicial. The Law pointed to JESUS who He would be and what he would do. He made those complete which is the true meaning. Which is why no sacrifice and no ceremonies are necessary to salvation. In Matthew 5 he also made apparent that we must not just follow the letter but the true meaning.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/30/13


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God didn't have to "do away with" Ten Commandments for Christians because that was a Law for the Jews,not Gentiles. Although we aren't under Jewish Laws God did mean for us to live a Holy life where all those Commandments are written on our hearts. For Gentiles,read it all: Acts 15:19,20-abstain from food polluted by idols,sexual immorality,meat of strangled animals,and blood. If we live a life pure,holy,and abstain from sin,then we will be keeping all the good ways the Laws and Ordinances taught because our nature has changed when we became a New Creature in Christ. All the old ways we had are forgiven and we are buried with Christ when we are water Baptized,and risen from that grave,that's when we're a new creature in Christ.
---Darlene_1 on 5/30/13


Jesus has taken us to how anger without a cause is murder in our hearts. So, Jesus has not done away with the command not to murder, but He has given us His message that murder is not just physical, but hate in our hearts is murder. So, no Jesus has not done away with the command not to commit murder.

"Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

"And we keep the Sabbath every day, by doing only God's works."

Yes . . . "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." (in John 5:17)

"Rest in the LORD" (in Psalm 37:7) > we rest in Jesus and how His grace has us working, all the time.
---willie_c: on 5/30/13


Fullfill can be translated essence of. For example, murder but the essence of murder is anger to your brother Matthew Ch5. You have sabbath no work on certain day but the essence of sabbath is rest and we have freedom in the rest, "sabbath made for the man." To be more global speaking is in Galatians and Eph. By the Law is your caregiver (Galatians) but through Jesus we are in Christ (EPH) to fullfill the Law in our hearts.
---Scott1 on 5/30/13


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