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Is Jesus A God

Is Yahushua (Jesus Christ) God? Please show Biblical Text pro or con.

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 ---Gordon on 5/30/13
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\\Mark regularly "SHOOTS" himself when his inaccurate, stinkin' thinkin' (self-righteousness) blows up (backfires) in his face.
---Leon on 6/6/13
\\

Projecting again, Leon?

**So, I'm "abnormal" Clooney?!!! :D
---Leon on 6/4/13**

Well, you certainly are one of a kind and unique, Leon.

Uniquely or kind of WHAT I wouldn't care to say here.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/6/13


"The fact is you believe in more than one god" Marc

If that's true then I am in good company.

"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came - and Scripture cannot be set aside- what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?" John 10:34-36, NIV
---scott on 6/6/13


"Leon, I didn't mention your name as one of those who throw arrows, but you very much proved my point to Warwick. Thank you for doing that. I was waiting for two others to do the same thing as you and Trav, but that might come later, they never surprise me either."
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


Nobody "throws" arrows! Mark regularly "SHOOTS" himself when his inaccurate, stinkin' thinkin' (self-righteousness) blows up (backfires) in his face.
---Leon on 6/6/13


Trav, speak what is the abundance of your heart, go ahead, you and Leon let it all out, proof that what we say about those who speak evil is Truth. Jesus said about those who speak evil out of their hearts,
"Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things" "But I say to you that every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of Judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned"
What you do with your mouth is proof that Scripture is correct
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


.... US pastors bring US culture along with them and attempt to impose this non-Christian baggage upon the locals.
---Warwick on 6/3/13

Oui,oui monsewer. Pastors...with non Christian baggage? Well, they are no more pastors than yourself it appears. The U.S. culture that you avoid describing, is most likely derived from the blessings you exhibit jealousy of.
You would have no culture if not for the U.S. or Britian. Nor would you be aware of the fundamental's of scripture as well.
Did we ask you to be beholding? No. I post so you know that we know...you.
Psalm 33:10
The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
---Trav on 6/6/13




It's called a "parting shot" derived from the highly successful battle tactic used by ancient Parthian horsemen who were very adept at shooting arrows backwards (inflicting grave damage on their enemies) while riding, no hands on the reins, at full gallop.
---Leon on 6/5/13

Ha. I would have to agree they are riding with no hands or bridle. They do run away when faced with multiple witnessing scriptures. Sucessful tactic? I've no scars on my scripture/armour from their little barbies.
It is sad but, scripturally accurate rebuking them to flight.

Ezekiel 37:28
And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 6/6/13


Scott, I look forward to your answer.

You must be a fragile little flower if you take my comments as insults. Isn't that a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
---Warwick on 6/6/13


Leon, I didn't mention your name as one of those who throw arrows, but you very much proved my point to Warwick. Thank you for doing that. I was waiting for two others to do the same thing as you and Trav, but that might come later, they never surprise me either.
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


I have no trouble with the KJV as such. It's what I was raised on.

I DO reject the notion that it can claim some special inspiration or authority over other translations, as ALL of them, including the KJV, are the work of human skill.

And as the Bible makes clear in any translation, no mere mortal has ever done anything for God and gotten it 100% right.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/5/13


Warwick.

Can you, after all of these years, please spare me the tiresome insults? I'm not avoiding you. I've been slammed with work the last two days. (A good problem to have in this economy).

I will follow up with my point about "god" and "worship" asap.
---scott on 6/5/13




Jerry, if you wish to use the KJV that is your choice.

2 Peter 2:9

NIV "..the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment."

ESV "..the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment"

KJV "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

I see no significant difference, am I missing something?

See KJV Genesis 1:28 " Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth," What does this mean?
---Warwick on 6/5/13


Mark, I know I do not have to answer Trav, but I like to. He does not bother me at all.
---Warwick on 6/5/13


Scott you are as keen as a young schoolboy to trot our WTS 101 'answers' but unable/unwilling to answer those questions for which you do not have pre-prepared answers. The list is growing!!

Again, without knowing the context I ask what does the English word 'bow' mean?'

Again :you say you have a point but write "The same is true of the words "god", "worship", etc." Be specific, what is your point?
---Warwick on 6/5/13


...You [don't] have to answer Trav[.] He comes out of nowhere [shooting] arrows at you. When you try to have a logical discussion, it never works. There [are] many [bloggers] that do the same thing. They remember you from another blog you disagreed with & take their shots.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/13


Very interesting! :) Reference blog: Daily End Time Signs. It's called a "parting shot" derived from the highly successful battle tactic used by ancient Parthian horsemen who were very adept at shooting arrows backwards (inflicting grave damage on their enemies) while riding, no hands on the reins, at full gallop.
---Leon on 6/5/13


Eastern Orthodox use the Septuagint as their Old Testament, which translation is based on even older versions of the Hebrew. I have an excellent translation of the Septuagint in my Orthodox Study Bible.
---Love.wins on 6/5/13


To set the record straight, the Latin Vulgate in the NT IS based on the Textus Receptus.

So, for that matter, is the NKJV.

Other modern English translations of the NT are based on what is called the Alexandrian or Critical texts.

The ONLY English Bible translations based on the Vulgate are the Douay/Rheims, its revision by Bp. Challoner, and the Knox version.

The OT of the Vulgate is based on an OLDER text than the Masoretic, which was not stabilized until several centuries after St. Jerome.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/5/13


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Warwick: I use the KJV exclusively. The antiquated language notwithstanding, it is the only version derived from the Textus Receptus and avoids the Jesus-demoting errors found in the modern versions derived from the corrupt Latin Vulgate.

As a test verse, look up 2Pet 2:9 in several versions. Only the KJV shows God to be just in that He waits until AFTER judgement to administer punishment.


---jerry6593 on 6/5/13


Samuel, thank you for your answer. I could see the difference in your answer to his and Jerry's, a mile apart.

Warwick, do not listen to those who want to disrupt the Truth you are speaking about concerning the Lord, by wasting your time with them. You really do not have to answer Trav, he comes out of nowhere throwing arrows at you. When you try to have a logical discussion, it never works. There is many on line now that do the same thing. They remember you from another blog you disagreed with and take their shots.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/13


Scott, I just noticed that you (again)haven't answered a relevant question "regarding context and meaning, what does the English word 'bow' mean?'
---Warwick on 6/4/13


Scott, I do not use the KJV for exactly the reasons you have exposed. It was, long ago, quite a good translation but English has changed so much that meanings are hidden and some words now convey a meaning opposite to that as originally intended. 'Shambles' is a good example. The KJV has been revised heavily in the past to bring its language up to date. It needs another serious revision now but I doubt it will happen as KJV devotees have an awe of it, which borders on worship.

You say you have a point but write "The same is true of the words "god", "worship", etc." Be specific, what is your point?
---Warwick on 6/4/13


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Trav, it seems you are saying it is ok for Christians to combine their own nonBiblical culture with Christianity? Surely not?

You say "You're consistently #1" but I cannot accept this. But thanks anyway.

Your comments do not really relate to what I have written. But what is new?
---Warwick on 6/4/13


To put things another way, what normal people call being careful and unambiguous about what you say--or as Jesus put it, letting your "yes" mean "yes" and your "no" mean "no"--Leon calls stilted, pedantic, and pompous.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/3/13


So, I'm "abnormal" Clooney?!!! :D
---Leon on 6/4/13


"Do you have a point?"- Warwick

Yes. And you've demonstrated it beautifully.

Without the research that you've done, a casual reader may understand Paul (in the KJV) to refer to a "shambles" as it is understood today: "a. A scene or condition of complete disorder or ruin...b. Great clutter or jumble, a total mess."

Examining the original meaning of the underlying Greek (and in this case how "shambles" was understood in 1611) brings Paul's statement into focus. It paints the intended, clear picture of his inspired words regarding a meat market.

The same is true of the words "god", "worship", etc.
---scott on 6/4/13


We all need to step aside from the culture of our particular country and not allow it to pollute Christian faith.
---Warwick on 6/3/13

You're consistently #1.... the leading arrogant irony.
Yeah, you're the one to give advice without scriptural witness.
America is blessed. For a reason. Through her and her sisters you blindly have been. Majority of all Christian literature / Bibles, missionarys etc came from here. Free.
Countries that don't get it....just don't get it.

The reason other countries don't get it, like yourself during or after 2,000 years is scriptural.
Isaiah 49.
---Trav on 6/4/13


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Scott,

Once again, true to form, you're disingenuous as you don't address the whole issue.

JWs claim Jesus is a god and, seeking a distraction, try to get support from ONE TRANSLATED meaning of elohim. The real issue, however, is that due to your mistranslation of John 1:1 you believe Jesus is both a god and creator. This makes you a polytheist and not a Christian.

No matter what you cut-and-paste [out of context], not matter how often you stall for time, the fact is you believe in more than one god, something neither Paul nor any other Jew believed. Such is the fruit of the Watchtower - pagan heresy!
---Marc on 6/3/13


Scott, my research shows that 'shambles' comes from a Latin 'macellum' meaning a bench, or table and came to mean the place where butcher's meat is sold, a flesh-market. In Biblical Greek it was rendered 'makello'

Do you have a point?

BTW regarding context and meaning, what does the English word 'bow' mean?

Words can carry shades of meaning but also totally different meanings only discoverable by context. Eloyihm is a perfect example.
---Warwick on 6/4/13


The Bible plainly states that Jesus is God in the flesh, see John1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS GOD and we beheld the glory of the only begotten of the father KJV.
There is One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism.
---Acts2:38_to_be_saved on 6/3/13


Warwick, Fundamental means "basic" .You believe , for example, trinity, literal hell fire, immortality of the soul etc. are basic (fundamental) Christian doctrines . they are fundamental only to your mind set. They are false pagan beliefs! So I add "evangelical" which indicates mainstream church type of today who share this type of "religion" (or Christendom, if you will)
---1st_cliff on 6/3/13


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"Words ultimately defined by context." Warwick

I disagree. Words have fundamental, linguistic meaning although many carry various shades of meaning or definition.

Language changes with time but any classical language (including Hebrew and Koine Greek) can be examined because of the philological tradition associated with it. We can determine (to a large degree) how a word was understood originally.

Consider:

"Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake.." 1 Cor 10:25, KJV

"Shambles" means something different today than it did when the KJV was translated. What did the Greek word mean when Paul wrote it 1500 years earlier?
---scott on 6/3/13


\\I have noticed , particularly in France how US pastors bring US culture along with them and attempt to impose this non-Christian baggage upon the locals.\\

Nothing new about that. European missionaries did exactly the same thing, especially in Africa.

Fortunately, the Russian and Greek Orthodox missionaries have done their best to leave merely cultural customs alone.

Christ is reason.
---Cluny on 6/3/13


As regards 'fundamentalist' I think Americans need to travel and discover there is a world out there, that the US is not the world and to come to the understanding that the world has little interest in the culture of US politics.

I have noticed , particularly in France how US pastors bring US culture along with them and attempt to impose this non-Christian baggage upon the locals. It causes problems. We all need to step aside from the culture of our particular country and not allow it to pollute Christian faith.
---Warwick on 6/3/13


To put things another way, what normal people call being careful and unambiguous about what you say--or as Jesus put it, letting your "yes" mean "yes" and your "no" mean "no"--Leon calls stilted, pedantic, and pompous.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/3/13


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\\That's a lie straight from the pits of hell & it smells like smoke! :)
---Leon on 6/3/13\\

Here is what Leon said on the MEMORIAL DAY WHAT'S UP blog:

**Stilted or pedantic speech, as seen above, is: A symptom of thought disorder seen through a person's communication. In schizophrenia it's shown by speech content that's inappropriately pompous, legalistic, philosophical or bizarre. This kind of cognitive disorder is also seen as a symptom in the narcissistic personality disorder.
---Leon on 5/29/13**
---Cluny on 6/3/13


\\Cliff, as we, on this site, and others, are speaking cross nationally we need to stick to standard word definitions, not creating our own meanings, so that we can be understood.\\

Beware, Warwick.

On another blog, Leon said that being particular and precise about one's words was a sign of schizophrenia.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/13


That's a lie straight from the pits of hell & it smells like smoke! :)
---Leon on 6/3/13


"See, men are called elohim, angels are too, and God, so what's wrong with Jesus being this?" Marc

Using the bible, prove that this is false.
---scott on 6/3/13


Samuel, I thought all SDAs believed the same way. Why is Francis not answering like you?
---Mark_V.

Dear Mark

Not all who call themselves Seventh day Adventist are in fact members of the Church any longer. There are those who take small doctrines or have Charismatic leaders who split off and form their own groups. Some continue to call themselves SDA while in fact they deny some of our 28 Fundamental beliefs. Which you can find posted on our official web site. I believe Francis has left the main church. We have Liberal to conservative members who disagree on minor points or enforcements. Fortunately GOD loves everyone. It is up to GOD who gets into Heaven. Hallelujah.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/13


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Scott,

True to form, your disingenuousness shines through.

The point, the real point of this discussion, is that JWs call Jesus "a god" and present him with all the credentials of being creator (i.e. all things are created by him), yet deny he's God. You have him above angels, judges and men, thereby equating him with being fully "a god", but want to obfuscate the issue by shoving him in under the rubric 'elohim'. Your logic runs this way: See, men are called elohim, angels are too, and God, so what's wrong with Jesus being this? As I stated, you call him a mere god, yet he creates the cosmos. There are 2 gods and 2 creators. JWs remain polytheists.
---Marc on 6/2/13


James, nonetheless Cliff's definition of 'fundamentalist' is incorrect. I am certain there are fundamentalists who fit within the correct definition, but also have other beliefs which are unpleasant. For example consider a fundamentalist who never washed-unpleasant-but is he filthy because of his fundamental beliefs? Not at all. However his/her filthiness does not change the correct meaning of fundamentalist which describes those who hold to the 'fundamentals' of Christian belief as in the definition I gave.

Do you hold to the list of Christian fundamentals I supplied?

I usually ask what someone means by 'fundamentalist' before admitting I am one, as defined only by the list I gave. .
---Warwick on 6/2/13


Scott, a major difference between you and me is that I am always happy to answer questions.

Elohiym: God (plural of majesty), gods, mighty one, great one, judge. I trust you can see that each of these definitions cannot be applied to the same person/s. And as I have been at pains to point out to you before, words are ultimately defined by context.
---Warwick on 6/2/13


---Warwick on 6/2/13

You know, I always think of " fundamentalist" as just another political phrase or side group of the Republican party.

Words like fundamentalist, Christian right, Moral majority, evangelicals, are so often used in reference to the Republican Party, that over the years, I have come to associate it with the GOP and not GOD.

I think those words are loosing spiritual meaning, and gaining political ground

I could be wrong
---francis on 6/2/13


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james I am a Baptist fundamental but I am not legalistic. you definitely have met the wrong people. I know some Baptist fundamentals that are very legalistic. I don't partner with that at all.
---shira4368 on 6/2/13


Warwick,

I would agree with Cliff on the use of the word "Fundamentalist"

I absolutely detest being described as a fundamentalist.

EVERYONE I've ever met who describes him/herself as a fundamentalist, is fundamentally legalistic.

Uber Conservatives, blinded by zeal, bible thumpers in the most negative sense of the phrase

They are heavily involved in politics, they look down more on smoking and gambling more than gluttony and gossip

I used to call myself a Fundamentalist, believing it meant someone who adheres to the fundamentals of the faith.

Then I met some Fundamentalists, and I quickly deserted that most hideous label

You betcha
---James_L on 6/2/13


"We need to stick to standard word definitions, not creating our own meanings." Warwick

Good point.

What is the definition of the biblical, Hebrew word Elohim?
---scott on 6/2/13


\\Cliff, as we, on this site, and others, are speaking cross nationally we need to stick to standard word definitions, not creating our own meanings, so that we can be understood.\\

Beware, Warwick.

On another blog, Leon said that being particular and precise about one's words was a sign of schizophrenia.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/13


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Cliff, as we, on this site, and others, are speaking cross nationally we need to stick to standard word definitions, not creating our own meanings, so that we can be understood.

A Christian fundamentalist has always been correctly defined as one who believes in the:

Inspiration of the Bible and the inerrancy of scripture as a result of this.

Virgin birth of Christ.

Belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin.

Bodily resurrection of Christ.

Historical reality of Christ's miracles.

I could see you did not understand the true meaning of the word and were incorrectly using it as an insult.
---Warwick on 6/2/13


"elohimness" - Marc

Elohimness?

Marc has lost the plot or, at the very least, is forced to remain disagreeable because the alternative for him is beyond comprehension.

I have stated clearly and repeatedly that the Jews were (and remain) strict monotheists. They worship(ped) one God- YHWH.

But they also understand that the Hebrew word "Elohim" is scripturally applied to men that are in no way equal to the Almighty or worshipped. The judges (Jn 10:34) were "gods" only in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as "God" to Pharaoh. Ex 4:16, Ex 7:1

See Strong's definition of "Elohim."
---scott on 6/2/13


\\Cluny, why are you putting your faith in congregational policy? \\

Where did you get the idea I was?

And I didn't say "policy" but "poliTy". Sorry you don't know the difference.

Finally, I don't believe in congregational policy, but episcopal POLITY.

\\Jesus was not SPRINKLED, but went in the water, and came out of the water.\\

Who said He was sprinkled? Not I.

Orthodox administer baptism by triple IMMERSION.

But I guess you didn't know that, either.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/2/13


Warwick, As I mentioned, "for want of a better term"
It's not meant as an insult, I try not to insult anyone, I could say religious zealots, superfine apostles , or even " dyed in the wool fanatics?" You know the kind that preach on a soap box on the street!
---1st_cliff on 6/1/13


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//
Jerry, I don't know what you call fundamental but I'm a fundamental baptist. We believe the Virgin birth, trinity, baptism by emmersion, King James Bible, dressing Godly, Godly music and anything the bible says

---shira4368 on 6/1/13 //

I believe in all those things as well. I must be a Baptist also. And for the record, I think that your misspelling of immersion is not nearly as serious as Cluny's errors in biblical theology.



---jerry6593 on 6/2/13


Cliff I share your frustration regarding this site. They pick and choose what they post in what seems to be a capricious way. And of course they are not prepared to reply to any relevant question. A strange lot.

You have used "evangelical fundamentalists", two words I have never seen used together and it leads me to believe you do not actually know what fundamentalist means, in the Christian sense just using it, in ignorance as an insult. I am correct am I not?
---Warwick on 6/1/13


I believe submersed is that of being under water.

Nikki, No such list is even mentioned in scripture to becoming a Christian. Sorry to offend, but all cults have their initiations before becoming a member of it. Then they work their way up the food chain to become either a pope, Tom Cruse, or whatever secret things they do in the Masons, or Mormon Church. We know them by their fruits.

Christians grow up into the fullness of Christ. That is done through Faith, not man made rules. Self sanctification still equals a 6 out of 7.

6- self justification
6- self sanctification
6- self glorification

All incomplete in Christ.

Those in Christ are Complete In Him, a perfect 777.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


Re Scott's use of John 10:34 & Psalm 82:6, it's clear Jesus is putting them on the horns of a dilemma. If they deny Jesus is Son of "elohim", despite doing miracles, they must deny their own "elohimness" (they who do no miracles) and thus deny Scripture which affirms their "elohimness". However, if they affirm their "elohimness" by upholding Scripture, they're going to have to also admit they are unjust and wicked, as per Psalm 82, and therefore possess no "elohimness".

My Jewish Bible (Tanakh) has "You are mighty ones", not 'gods', at Psalm 82. Jews deny there are gods. From John 1 JWs call Jesus a god and creator. As it stands, JWs profess polytheism are thus are pagans.
---Marc on 6/1/13


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cluny, thanks for correcting my type-o. I can always count on you to help us spell correctly. one of my good points was spelling when old age creeps in, it shows.
---shira4368 on 6/1/13


I elaborated but somehow it got lost in cyber space.
When you go to much trouble explaining your stand and it gets shot down...
ah what's the use!!
---1st_cliff on 6/1/13


I don't of any Christian church thats SPRINKLES.

No one sprinkles.
The RCC pours and most Protestants has immersion for their Baptisms.

NO ONE SPRINKLES.
The only sprinkling going around is in people's heads.

No one is Catholic just because they believe in the basic doctrines of literal hell fire, immortality of the soul and the Trinity. Even satan believes them and isn't saved.

You have to go through RICA, for at least 6 months, baptism verified, confession for some, and be Confirmed. Finally able to take Holy Communion to be CATHOLIC.
---Nikki on 6/1/13


//We believe the Virgin birth, trinity, baptism by emmersion, King James Bible, dressing Godly, Godly music and anything the bible says//

Anything the Bible says???
circumcision, tongue talking,selling all your posessions, being silent in church,going to the synagogue, the 9th hour to pray etc etc
---michael_e on 6/1/13


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Cluny, why are you putting your faith in congregational policy?

Jesus was not SPRINKLED, but went in the water, and came out of the water...totally submersed. It is our identification with Christ in death and resurrection life, just as Peter states, using the flood during the time of Noah as his example of true baptism.

This is scriptural, and truth to those who know what true salvation is.....being baptized into His Death, and raised up a New Creature, having a good conscience towards God By the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

No such sprinkling as you do is found in NT Baptism. God didn't sprinkle the earth with a sprinkle rain, but totally submersed the earth, and brought out a new one.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


shira, the word is spelled "immersion."

And why do you put your trust in a Bible translated by people who believed in baptism by affusion (pouring) or in hierarchal church polity, rather than in congregational polity?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/1/13


John 1-14, NIV: " 1 In the beginning was the Word...THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, & THE WORD WAS GOD. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, & that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, & the darkness has not overcome[a] it...10 He was in the world, & though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God...born of God. 14 The Word became flesh & made his dwelling among us..."
---Leon on 6/1/13


Jerry, I don't know what you call fundamental but I'm a fundamental baptist. We believe the Virgin birth, trinity, baptism by emmersion, King James Bible, dressing Godly, Godly music and anything the bible says
---shira4368 on 6/1/13


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Warwick, Evangelical fundamentalists (for want of a better title) because they are not true "Christians" so I can't refer to your mind set as such!
I will elaborate!
---1st_cliff on 6/1/13


Cliff: Do you keep Sunday as the Lord's Day? If you do, then by your own reasoning, YOU ARE A CATHOLIC.

Insofar as fundamentalism is concerned, I believe that the definition of a fundamentalist includes the belief in a literal six-day Creation, a universal flood, the virgin birth of Christ, etc. So, yup, I'm a fundamentalist. Too bad you aren't!


---jerry6593 on 6/1/13


Samuel, I thought all SDAs believed the same way. Why is francis not answering like you? Is he some other kind of SDA? How many kinds of SDA's are there?
---Mark_V. on 6/1/13


Cliff, I am not Roman Catholic, and never have been. That I may share some beliefs with them, or Presbyterians, or Baptists etc does not make me a member of these denominations. Conversely you have said you were a JW and the way you defend the WTS party line convinces me you still are one.

BTW I always wonder if people know what they are talking about when they throw titles around such as 'Evangelical fundamentalists." Can you please define what you mean by this term?
---Warwick on 5/31/13


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Warwick, I'll admit to being a JW if you admit to being Catholic since you believe their basic doctrines of literal hell fire, immortality of the soul and trinity! OK?
Approaching the scriptures with malice and forethought is foolish, my mind is not cluttered with pagan myths that saturates evangelical fundamentalists!
2,000 years of infiltrating has taken it's toll!
---1st_cliff on 5/31/13


1st Cliff,

Sorry to say but the idea that Constantine rigged the Council of Nicea is an urban myth. Historically it's so far from the truth. A number of the participants had been tortured for their Trinitarian belief by Diocletian and Maximian and thus were not going to sign something they didn't believe in.

Of the 300 odd men who turned up to Nicea, barely 30 were Arians.

The Council sat to determine not if Christ was divine, but how was he.

Cliff, better research, please!
---Marc on 5/31/13


Every generation many have doubted the Trinity. But we who believe in Sola Scriptora find plenty of proof for JESUS being GOD. Those who doubt this truth use verses out of context and ignore many passages. Then go back and appeal to History and anticatholicism.

I am a Seventh day Adventist we are opposed to many Catholic doctrines. But they also teach some truths. Verse after Verse showing JESUS is GOD has been presented here and other places. Most are ignored by opponets. Why because they have no answer for them. It is also shown here that they have to rewrite verses in the Bible to change their meaing to show they are correct.

We are to go to the Bible for our doctrines. Not Force the Bible to agree with what we want.
---Samuelbb7 on 5/31/13


One thing I consider is that God made humans in His own image. And humans have three basic family persons > father, child, and mother.

Also, gold can be in more than one form. If there is more than one form of gold, this does not mean there are more than one kind of gold. Jesus is "the image of God", we have in 2 Corinthians 4:4. God who is love can be in different forms of love, like how the same love can be in the forms of a father and child and mother.
---willie_c: on 5/31/13


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Does God want to personally share with us, at every moment. If so, how? Or, are there things He wants us to take care of on our own?
---willie_c: on 5/31/13


Cliff, despite your claims I believe you remain a JW, spouting the 'party' line.

The Trinity does not exist because of a creed, as it is but a statement of reality, with no power of its own. Any truth seeker who reads Scripture cover to cover will see the Trinity spelled out plainly. Those such as JW's and atheists who approach Scripture with malice aforethought can learn nothing because Biblical Truth is revealed by faith and the leading of the Holy Spirit, being spiritually discerned, as Cluny says. Those who reject the personhood of the Holy Spirit are willingly spiritually ignorant.

For ages you have come up with objections to my beliefs but not 1 objection has credibility as they are but products of faithless scepticism.
---Warwick on 5/31/13


Unbelievers denying Christ is God, has a purpose because they are fulfilling God's will. As do every other thing that He has created.

Now, how else would we know what an unbeliever is if these people (who even dare call themselves Christians) doesn't deny Christ is God? In Peter's epistle when he wrote that these unbelievers find Christ, who's God is indeed to them "a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence" and that's because, "to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."

It's truly humbling and sobering to know that these unbelievers were created by God for this very purpose, to deny and reject Christ as God. And all for His praise and glory.
---christan on 5/31/13


Warwick, **Don't be fooled** ??
The fooling was not initiated by the WTBTS but in 325 CE by Constantine and his gang who silenced all opposers, bedazzling the simple Christians with "homoousios" because there were no scriptures to back their creed!
By the time of Luther trinity was deeply entrenched in Catholicism that he didn't change!
You can fool some of the people all the time and all the people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time!
---1st_cliff on 5/30/13


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JW's are comfortable in using deceit in the vain attempt to prove Jesus the Son of God is not God.

I quoted Bible Scholar Paul G. Weathers who (in part) said that Jesus (the Son of Man) being ('made like his brothers in every way' Hebrews 2:17), could address the Father as "God." However Jesus did not relate to the Father this way until he "emptied himself" and became man, as it says in Philippians 2:6-8.'

David selectively quoted "Jesus did not relate to the Father until... he became man'. By cunningly leaving out "this way" he pushes the idea that Jesus the Son of God, did not relate to the Father in eternity, therefore is not God.

Don't be fooled!
---Warwick on 5/30/13


This has already been discussed elsewhere recently, Gordon.

Why are you bringing it up again?

Or is your worldly denominational church considering it for the first time?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 5/30/13


John 14 v 9, Jesus saying to Philip, when you have seen me you have seen the Father. Even Thomas said to Jesus my Lord & my God. John 8 v 58 Jesus said before Abraham was, I am. Yes Jesus Is The Almighty God. In the Old Testament The Lord saying there is no god before & I know not any. In Rev. Jesus saying I am the Alpha & the Omega, Jesus Christ Is God !
---Lawrence on 5/30/13


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