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Daniel's Seventy Weeks

Let's break this down, and share each others view

Daniel 9:24- Daniel 9:27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,... And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

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 ---francis on 5/31/13
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Francis, that is another issue I disagree with you and Samuel. Jesus birth is not called an advent. But if you want to use the word "advent" (not found in scripture) it would actually be associated to the second coming.

I'm sure this is why we don't come to an agreement on this issue.

When any prophecy has been FULFILLED, scripture will tell us, more than one place that it has been fulfilled. Yet I see no outward scripture even remotely suggesting Stephen's death fulfilled some prophecy so vitally important as you claim. No fulfillment of any prophecy is ever left to the imagination of anyone.
---kathr4453 on 6/7/13


Francis, Jesus in no way encouraged anyone to rebuild Jerusalem,
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Haggai 1:8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house, and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.

The prophecy says that the messiah will come after it has been rebuilt

This is about THE FIRST ADVENT of JESUS
---francis on 6/6/13


Francis, Jesus in no way encouraged anyone to rebuild Jerusalem, as it was under Roman Rule. One of the reasons Judas betrayed Him, is because Jesus was not showing any signs of overthrowing the Roman Empire. Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world.

Why did it need to be re-built THEN, as the first destruction didn't take place to 70ad, and a worse one in 135ad.

None of what you are saying makes any sense.

The Apostles asked Jesus before He ascended," are you at this time going to restore the Kingdom to Israel?"

So re-building would have been out of the question THEN if it wasn't even restored first..THAT all takes place AFTER 2nd Thesselonians, at the end of the ages, in the LAST DAYS.
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13


Francis, when Jerusalem is rebuilt, as one day it will, when Jesus returns to earth, the Temple will also be rebuilt He will be here when that takes place.. You can look at the dimensions of what will be built in the OT, I believe you can find that future prophecy starting in Ezekiel 38 on several chapters after that. Remember Ezekiel 36 first.

If you really know scripture and ALL OT prophecy concerning end times you would never say Daniel has already been fulfilled. You can't omit Ezekiel, Zechariah, Isaiah , which talks about the earthly restored Kingdom and what life will be like at that time. It wasn't CUT OFF, or done away with Stephen's stoning.
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13


--kathr4453 on 6/6/13
Daniel 9:25..from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem....
This starts the 70 weeks:
The decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra, 457 B.C. (Ezra 7.) This commands them to return with materials to rebuild Jerusalem
This would place the end of the 70 weeks at 34 AD
Jesus born at 4 BC, Baptized at age 30 in AD 27, died Age 33 in AD 31

69 weeks from the start date, Jesus is baptized, anointed and starts his ministry as Messiah. In the middle of the week he will be cut of, So halfway between 27 AD and 34 AD is about 31 AD actual death of Jesus.
3 1/2 years later: the stoning of stephen, the final rejection, and end of the 70 weeks

see post on francis on 6/1/13 and 6/3/13
---francis on 6/6/13




Ok francis, you are backtracking. First you say the Jews were cut off, after Stephen was stoned, cutting short a covenant, and now you say Jesus death was what was cut short. I'm having a hard time keeping track of all of this.

You say the completion of the 70 weeks ended with Stephen.. So exactly what changed after Stephens death....were the Jews cut off?

What is the significance of Stephens death to all of this?

And did all that was prophesied to happen after the 70th week happen?

Then you say Jesus didn't immediately enter Heaven, but we know He was there before Stephen's death. If Jesus didn't enter heaven 10 days before Pentecost??... where was He?
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13



---kathr4453 on 6/6/13
The Covenant did not end with stephen, the new covenant is everlasting

In 34 AD stephen was stoned
34 AD coinsides with the end of the 490 days (70 weeks prophecy)

The last week 69-70 is between 27 AD the baptism and anointing of Jesus, to 34 AD the stoning of stephen.
During that week, he confirmed the covenant, and in the middle of that week he also died ( was cut off)
---francis on 6/6/13


The 70 weeks of years is accepted as a prophecy of the first coming of JESUS CHRIST by all Christians who are not preterists. Since they do not believe in any future prophecy.

For centuries there was only one undersanding of it. That which Francis has shown.

IN the 19th century John Darby intoduced into protesism this new version. That no one here seems to actually know. It is funny to me. So many defend what they do not know. Every argument against the 70 weeks stated here. Actually destroys their way of stating the 70 weeks even more.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/6/13


-kathr4453 on 6/5/13 you asked which covenant.
The new and everlasting covenant

Daniel 9:27 he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Jesus ministry to Israel last 7 years from 27 AD His baptism and anointing to 34 AD
3 1/2 in person Luke 7:22, and 3 1/2 via his apostles

Jesus confirms His covenant with many
Matthew 26:28 this is my blood of THE NEW TESTAMENT, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Apostles continue this confirmation:
Hebrews 2:3... which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was CONFIRMED unto us by them that heard him, God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, ..
---francis on 6/6/13


What covenant? You say the one in His Blood? What covenant did Jesus confirm "to many "at the beginning of His ministry that ended with Stephen? It couldn't have been in His Blood, so it must have been Animal blood. So the ONLY covenant in animal blood was the Old Covenant, done away IN CHRIST's Blood. Stephen saw Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father, already having entered through His own Blood, you say didn't happen until when? So Jesus entered through the Blood of WHAT COVENANT before Stephens death? And then broke WHAT covenant ? The Old or New 3 1/2 years after His resurrection?
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13




#2. Since we know the New Covenant can never be broken or was Israel ever cut off of the New Covenant, it must have been the Old Covenant. So you are saying Jesus CONFIRMED the OLD Covenant Again with many for 1 week, or 7 years ..the one Jesus said in MY BLOOD for the remission of sin? And then cancelled that covenant to Israel at Stephen's stoning?

So you are saying Ezekiel 36 is a joke that God just couldn't pull off right? Read the WHOLE CHAPTER Francis. And what about Zechariah 12-14.... When did that happen?

You may be able to convince those who are not grounded in scripture, but to those who are, you have no answer as to how these other verses also have to be fulfilled as well that coordinate with Daniel.
---kathr4453 on 6/6/13


Francis, first, exactly What covenant was confirmed? Please let me know what covenant you are talking about. Then we'll see if that was a covenant that could be broken in the first place.

Is the Covenant IN HIS BLOOD a temporary covenant or An eternal Covenant everlasting covenant.

The ONLY conditional Covenant was the Old or Mosaic Covenant. Again THAT was done away IN CHRIST, not 3 1/2 years after Jesus Resurrection, and that was not even in His Blood.
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


Francis, what you are doing is no different than those who predict the Rapture also using scripture here and there to come up with their bogus calculations that NEVER come to pass. All your pieces do not fit exactly. You have pick this and that, yet when asked about the others you have no explanation. Some you say are literal, and those you can't explain,you then spiritualized away.

No different than Calvinism....picking and choosing only what you want with a total disrespect to all other scripture. You still need to explain away 2nd Thessalonians in all of this. The MAN of perdition , the beast, has not yet come on the scene. Yet according to your version of Daniel, he has. So when did Jesus come and destroy him?
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Some tend to think that this is a covenant made with Israel by the anti christ

what intrigues me, is what they belive happens during the first 3 1/2 years:

Some say that the tribulation will last 3 1/2 years, while the great tribulation last 3 1/2 years 7 total years

Other say that the first 3 1/2 years are years of peace

your views please

I make a case fo rthe 70 week being fulfilled on francis on 6/3/13
---francis on 6/5/13


We also know that the final rejection was the stonning of stephen, and we know that the gospel then went to all the world after that event

Acts 7:55 -57//// Francis


We know no such thing. No scripture to support when Stephen was stoned, and no prophesy concerning the end of any 70 years would be fulfilled at the stoning of anyone.

If you look in acts 6, you will see a list of names, Stephen and Philip and several more all called to spread the Gospel at the same time. These men were not called AFTER Stephen's stoning to bring another Gospel.

The apostles were ALL commissioned by Jesus Himself to preach the Gospel to ALL nations. Nothing about...wait until Stephen is stoned first..then take it to all nations.
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


Francis, your guru's have gone to great length to try to make scripture fit their doctrine, even if it means making things up and hope some simpleton will swallow it.

The GOSPEL of SALVATION was preached from the day of Pentecost on to today. Nothing in Peter's preaching even remotely suggests any earthly kingdom. AND that would have been in direct DISOBEDIENCE to Jesus when asked...will you AT THIS TIME restore the Kingdom to Israel.

Show us where Jesus said YES.

And of coarse there is MORE in Daniel, like those 2300 days, you all calculated to 1844 or something. That's WRONG. If one part is wrong, it's all wrong.
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


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Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

There was no special sign or event for the time to be up, he calculated it based on the time they were taken into captivity, as given by Jeremiah the prophet 2 Chro 36:21

So we know that from the commandment in 457 BC to 34 AD would be 490 years

We also know that the final rejection was the stonning of stephen, and we know that the gospel then went to all the world after that event

Acts 7:55 -57
---francis on 6/5/13


Those and the whole New Testament are then given to show the future for the church which replaces Israel.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/13

I am stupified by this statement.

I no longer wish to discuss Daniel 9 because it is pointless to discuss it with you. If you believe that the church has replaced Israel, then Daniel 9 is fulfilled in your understanding.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/5/13


THE DOCTRINE OF ALCAZAR:PRETERIST
Made the seals the early expansion of apostolic Christianity

Gods longsuffering, warnings, and punishments were allotted to the Jews

The trumpets were judgments on fallen Judaism

The two witnesses - the doctrine and holy lives of the Christians

After the persecutions Christianity would arise with new glory and convert many Jews

Revelation was the apostolic church, bringing forth the Roman church

The first beast of Revelation 13 declared to be the persecuting arrogance of pagan Rome - the second beast, its carnal wisdom

Revelation 17, the mystical meaning of idolatrous ancient Rome

Revelation 18, its conversion to the Catholic faith
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


Stephen had been accused of blaspheming the law , because he is now preaching GRACE, so they wanted to kill Stephen.(6:13), but he turns this argument around and accuses them of being the law-breakers (7:53) for betraying and murdering the Just One (7:52).


Stephens speech, is an indictment of "the nations" apostasy from the beginning. Stephen understands it's their "national pride " in being the elect people of God, the guardians of the law and the possessors of the temple, but how they must repent from this idolatry and turn to Christ.

If Stephen was teaching "the Kingdom " restored to Israel, they would have all been in agreement here. No reason for his murder.
---kathr4453 on 6/5/13


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Nikki, you are correct in that the RCC does not believe the antichrist is here. Samuel is wrong. All the reformers believed that the antichrist was here and that he was the pope. In fact at the Council of Trent, pope leaders assigned two Jesuits by different means to divert mens minds from perceiving the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Antichrist away from the Pope. Francisco Ribera applied the futuristic view, all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time rather then to history of the Church. Luis Alcasar on the other hand came out with the Preterist view, to point back to the past. To see the majority of prophecies in Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation to having already been fulfilled in the fall of Jerusalem 70 AD.
---Mark_V. on 6/5/13


---kathr4453 on 6/4/13

I am not sure what you are trying to say in that last post about paul and isaac.

I do not tend to disagree with the post, I just do not see the relevance in the context of which we are speaking
---francis on 6/5/13


According to you, the week ends in 34-35 AD, before The Revelation is written.

Was vision and prophecy completed in 34 AD? By what measure? Mark_Eaton

Correct. The prophecies that pointed to the first coming are completed. Those and the whole New Testament are then given to show the future for the church which replaces Israel.

Why has no one here tried to show a differet fulfillment of the 70 weeks. Does anyone here actually know what you are defending?
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/13


Samuelbb7, are you saying the RCC believes the Antichrist is already here?
If so, please tell me where and when did the RCC claims this? Nikki

True. Because that is not what I said. The RCC in general advances futurism. That the Antichrist will be and end time person. Futurism is part of the Pre Tirb rapture theory that Darby started. It is not found in the Bible or Protestant history. He rewrote the previous understanding of the 70 weeks and the second coming and split the Brethern church. I love history.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/13


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Francis, the same promise of the Spirit that was to be given to Saved Jews, is the same Spirit that came to the Gentiles. The promise of Spirit came on the Gentiles, as Paul tells us in Galatians. Paul also uses Isaac not Jacob aka Israel in that promise to Gentiles. In Isaac will thy seed be CALLED, and the seed is Christ. Nowhere does Paul even mentionJacob/Israel in Galatians in preaching to Gentiles, or even in identifying salvation to Gentiles through Jacob/Israel.

That's Paul's whole case to the Gentiles in Galatians....they are the CALLED through Isaac. We are children of Promise...those promises made to Abraham apart from the law, 400 years before the Law.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


Samuelbb7, are you saying the RCC believes the Antichrist is already here?
If so, please tell me where and when did the RCC claims this?
This is news to the RCC.
---Nikki on 6/4/13


Francis, Gentiles were never grafted into Israel,
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, ...And if some of the branches ( JEWS) be broken off, and thou ( GENTILE), being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh.. ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, ...Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God, ... built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,
---francis on 6/4/13


Francis, Gentiles were never grafted into Israel, then making Gentiles Israel. The root in Romans 9 is the Abrahamic Covenant. Gentiles do inherit SOME of those promises made to Abraham they do not inherit any promises to Israel. the Church was Never Promised Land. And the Church was Never Promised the earthly Kingdom restored to Israel. So that idea never flew even when Paul preached the Gospel of one New man, neither Jew or Gentile, but a NEW CREATURE, as he clearly states in Galatians 6.

The idea that Gentiles were now Jews having to keep Jews laws was heresy even then in Galatia, and still is today. You believe the same false Gospel that the Lawyers brought to Galatia.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


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---Mark_Eaton on 6/4/13
Daniel 9:25..from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem....
This starts the 70 weeks:
3. The decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra, 457 B.C. (Ezra 7.) This commands them to return with materials to rebuild Jerusalem
This would place the end of the 70 weeks at 34 AD
Jesus born at 4 BC, Baptized at age 30 in AD 27, died Age 33 in AD 31

69 weeks from the start date, Jesus is baptized, anointed and starts his ministry as Messiah. In the middle of the week he will be cut of, So halfway between 27 AD and 34 AD is about 31 AD actual death of Jesus.
3 1/2 years later: the stoning of stephen, the final rejection, and end of the 70 weeks

see post on francis on 6/1/13 and 6/3/13
---francis on 6/4/13


Samuel, actually it was first introduced by Augustine. Then Augustine changed his views sometime later as he became more involved with Gnosticism.

Actually it wasn't Darby at all who introduced this teaching, but Paul, and John if you closely read what they are saying along with all the Prophets from OT to New.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


Francis, then I guess I hold to the Replacement Theory.
---Love.wins on 6/4/13
OK no problems there

i always tell people count the tree

1 wild olive gentiles
1 good olive israel

Tthe good olive is Isreal into which the branches from the wild olive are grafted

To say that the churchis not Israel is to plant three tree


1 wild olive gentiles
1 good olive israel
another olive tree the church

I don't think so
---francis on 6/4/13


Read again we do not believe the 70 weeks ended in the crucifiction.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/4/13

Ok, here is what you said: " In the middle of the week he will be cut of, So halfway between 27 AD and 34 AD is about 31 AD actual death of Jesus".

According to you, the week ends in 34-35 AD, before The Revelation is written.

Was vision and prophecy completed in 34 AD? By what measure?
---Mark_Eaton on 6/4/13


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Samuel, I don't believe John Darby and the RCC have anything in common in their end times beliefs. Where as Darby believes Rev. 12, the Woman, the. 12 stars etc, is Israel, where as the RCC believe it is Mary and the 12 Apostles. Darby believes the RCC is the anti-Christ, so certainly the RCC was not influenced by that notion.
kathr4453

The Pretrib teach the Antichrist is yet to come. As Darby stated. The Teaching of the RCC as anitchrist says He is already here. Technical names Futurism of Darby and the RCC or Historicism of early Protestanism.

I did not say they taught exactly alike. But Futurism was adopted from the RCC by Darby.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/4/13


Your understanding must be faulty if the 70 weeks ended at the crucifixion.
---Mark_Eaton

Read again we do not believe the 70 weeks ended in the crucifiction. Now can you tell me how the 70 weeks work in your understanding. I know and have studied the system you claim to believe in as taught by Darby. But no one here except me seems to know what it is and how it works. Yet you follow it in your theology. Why are you supporting something you do not know?
---Samuelbb7 on 6/4/13


Francis, then I guess I hold to the Replacement Theory.
---Love.wins on 6/4/13


The earthly sanctuary is a school master teaching us the plan of redeemption

So think about it this way:

You sinned in April, and made you sacrifice in April. the blood is placed before the veil in the Sanctuary. The record that you have sinned and asked for forgiveness stays before the veil until the day of atonement in october, when the sanctuary is cleansed of all record of sin.

Same with the heavenly, the record of our sin, remains until the day of atonement in the heavenly sanctuary, the day set aside by God when the heavenly sanctuary is to be cleansed

PS we are off the 70 week prophecy subject
---francis on 6/4/13


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---kathr4453 on 6/4/13
1: Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

2:Hebrews 8:5 Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

3:Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

There is definatly a temple in heaven, which is not the body of Jesus, where Jesus serves as high priest
---francis on 6/4/13


Here Francis,
Hebrews 9:11-13

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building,

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Eternal redemption is OSAS believe it or not.

Remember we are "IN CHRIST". francis.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


Francis scripture tells us the earthly was made after a pattern that was in Heaven. ALL things in the earthly tabernacle, becoming the Temple was all pointing to Jesus Christ. Once Jesus Christ died and rose again, no earthly temple, tabernacle, sanctuary is necessary. Jesus IS as He said Himself the temple that was raised up in 3 days.

You need to read Hebrews as to why the earthly temple is not longer necessary. SIN went from covered for OT saints to IMMEDIATELY forgiven and washed away the moment Jesus rose from the Dead. He took those in Abraham's Bosom with Him, leading captivity captive, and have been in heaven ever since....
The MOMENT the veil in the temple was rent, signified the way into the Holy of Holies had been opened.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


But none of you have laid out the basis for this.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/13

You are missing the meaning of the 70 weeks. It is for:

to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
to anoint the most holy place.

If vision and prophecy were sealed up at the death of Jesus, then why do you pay attention to The Revelation? The Revelation was written after the death of Jesus, and after 70 AD.

Your understanding must be faulty if the 70 weeks ended at the crucifixion.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/4/13


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Francis, Catholics and Protestants understand Revelation much different.

Catholic do believe the events in 70's AD was what was foretold in Revelation.

Revelation HAS partially happened. As it seems you are do believe.

Other details described in Revelation fits the Holy Mass completely.

The Bible is a story of mankind's Salvation ending in Revelation.
The Lord's plan starts with action in Genesis 12.

Dr. Scott Hahn's book on Revelation speaks well on the subject. He studied Revelation for years, and couldn't get a handle on the matter, until he went to a Mass. He was shocked (because he hated the Catholic Church)

Disclaimer: He and his wife were Protestants who converted to the Catholic Church.
---Nikki on 6/3/13


---Love.wins on 6/3/13
The church replaced Israel. No. The church IS Israel. Romans 11:17, Ephesians 2:12-20

---Mark_Eaton on 6/3/13
Nice post, but that did not stop time, See also: Hebrews 8:10-11. Focus on 11, although we have the new covenant, we still teach others about Jesus, the covenant continues till new earth, does not stop time

---kathr4453 on 6/3/13
The heavenly sanctuary follows the pattern of the earthly
1: In the earthly only the sin of those who had applied the blood was cleanses. In heavenly, only those who accept the blood of Jesus are cleaned of their sin
2:Hebrews 8:2, Hebrews 9:23-24 tell us that Christ had to enter the holy places in heaven to cleanse us from sin
3: see OT and NT Pentecost
---francis on 6/4/13


Francis gave the preterism view, one of several views concerning Daniel and Revelation. The futurist View is also Protestant. Those who believe in Replacement Theology do not believe in the futurist view. The futurist view also has pre and post millennial views, so within these views there are actually many many views.

Replacement theology love.wins is a belief that the Church replaced all the promises given to Israel, and gave them to the church. That any future prophesies given to Israel are now spiritualized and explained away. That also is where Calvinists stand who call themselves Protestants Along with SDA and the RCC, Mormons, and JW's.

Baptists however for the most part do not, and are futurist, pre-millennial .
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


Samuel, I don't believe John Darby and the RCC have anything in common in their end times beliefs. Where as Darby believes Rev. 12, the Woman, the. 12 stars etc, is Israel, where as the RCC believe it is Mary and the 12 Apostles. Darby believes the RCC is the anti-Christ, so certainly the RCC was not influenced by that notion.

The real issue is. IF God, who made unconditional eternal promises to Israel can renege on those promises, how can you be sure He won't renege on those promises He gave you. Romans 9-11 explained by Paul, assures us, those promises to Israel will come to pass, and in no way teaches the Church replaced those promises to Israel. God cannot LIE.
---kathr4453 on 6/4/13


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Replacement Theory is that the Church took the place of Isarael. So when the Bible refers to Isarael it is the church not the nation.

The rapture to many is the Second Coming. Not a secret taking away of some of those who follow GOD. But leaving others to go through the tribulation. Those wo are post tribulation say that the rapture and second coming are the same event.

Pre and Post teach a secret coming because the wicked do not see it. This is part of the New System Darby made popular based on RCC theology. But most people do not know the history.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/4/13


What is the Replacement Theory?
---Love.wins on 6/3/13


Francis gave the Protestants understanding of the 70 weeks.

Daniel 9:25br>This starts the 70 weeks:
3. The decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra, 457 B.C. (Ezra 7.) >This would place the end of the 70 weeks at 34 AD

Jesus born at 4 BC, Baptized at age 30 AD 27, died Age 33 AD 31

69 and 1/2 weeks from the start date, Jesus is baptized, anointed and starts his ministry as Messiah. In the middle of the week he will be cut of
So halfway between 27 AD and 34 AD is about 31 AD actual death of Jesus.
Now many here have stated this is wrong. Others that the 70th week is future. But none of you have laid out the basis for this. Most do not know the convoluted replacement theory advanced by the RCC with the help of John Darby.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/3/13


So you think that prophetic time has stopped at 69 weeks?
---francis on 6/3/13

Why not?

These verses appear together yet we know they are separated by at least 2000 years:

Is 9:6-7 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us, And the government will rest on His shoulders, And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom"

Prophets did not see the timing of their prophesy, only the details. God knows the timing.
---Mark_Eaton on 6/3/13


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Francis Jesus entered through the blood of the everlasting covenant. His shed blood did the cleansing. When the veil in the temple was rent, it signified the way into the Holy of Holies had been opened. Jesus didn't sit at the right hand of the Father in a dirty sanctuary .

The days shortened, means the hours in each day will be shortened....or the hours the sun was shining will be shortened. Not shortened years. Just like we see shorter days in winter.

There Are 3 views of when the rapture will take place. The issue isn't when, but that it will.

The abomination of desolation is when anti_christ sits in the Temple as though he were God....total balsphemy.....that is, the one that will be rebuilt in the near future.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


Francis, didn't Jesus enter heaven 40 days After His resurrection? Scripture says so. So what temple or sanctuary needs cleansing? Certainly not the Heavenly one.

It's possible the heavenly sanctuary needed purification, because up until the time of Jesus death and resurrection , Satan and his fallen angels could come into God's
Presence, as we see in Job. But do we know he can today? The Moment Jesus rose from the dead through the Blood of the everlasting Covenant, satan was defeated. Satan has lost all power over death, and people's souls. We are seated with Christ in Heavenly places IN CHRIST, cleansed, holy and pure IN HIM. HE literally is the Heavenly Sanctuary/temple. Jesus does not need to be cleansed and judged.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


Here is what I have heard about the 7 year tribulation. Tell me if I understandit right

Jesus died at the 69 year mark, thus one week left

The last week is the week of tribulation

Antichrist signs a 7 year peace treaty with israel

3 and a 1/2 years into the treaty he breaks it and the tribulation starts

( is the church raptured before, after or during) i am not sure on how those fit
---francis on 6/3/13


I BELIEVE is the 7 year Tribulation period
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13
I understand what yu believe

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

Shorten from what? 10 years to seven years?

Seven years to...?

Did you know that there is not one single verse in the bible with the phrase 7 years ( in any form) and tribulation ?

So you think that prophetic time has stopped at 69 weeks?
---francis on 6/3/13


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---kathr4453 on 6/3/13
Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

We know that he did not enter the holy places at his death, so it had to be at some time after his death that the heavenly sanctuary was cleansed

But consider other time prophecies:
70 years captvity
70 weeks prophecy
2300 days prophecy

because there is a definate start date, there need not be an event to mark the end
---francis on 6/3/13


Francis the 70th week, I BELIEVE is the 7 year Tribulation period after the Church is formed and raptured. Then the 1000 year reign of Christ will begin. This is what I believe. I do not believe the SDA's version of Daniel. Sorry.

You gave me the time of day Jesus was crucified, not the EXACT YEAR, nor can you PROVE what year exactly Stephen was stoned. No OT scripture ever points to Stephen, and nowhere are we told in the NT that Stephen's ministry was EXACTLY 3 1/2 years to date of Jesus Crucifixion. If scripture stated such dates maybe you would have proof.

And the only Covenant done away with was the Old Covenant. That was done away IN CHRIST, not at Stephen's death. There are no other covenants cut short.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


francis, using your theory, continuing on with times and dates, the 2300 day (year) prophecy of Dan 8:14, you arrive at the fall of 1844 A.D. as the date for the start of Judgment in heaven (the cleansing of the sanctuary). What sanctuary? The One in Heaven? wasn't that cleansed with the Blood of Jesus at His death?


In the Temple ceremonies of the Jews, this event occurred only once each year, at Yom Kippur, a type for judgment day. Now you say it has been underway in heaven since 1844 and continues at this moment?

Judgment has already been fulfilled when Jesus took our Judgment upon Himself.

So Francis, there is so much more to your theory that I wholeheartedly disagree with!
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks

7 +60+ 2-69

So the messiah comes in the 69Th week, he is not killed at the 69Th weeks

He is cut off in the midst of the week between 69-70 or 69 1/2 weeks after the commandmemts, 62 weeks after the walls are rebuilt

This has nothing to do with the great tribulation, or end of the age, only 70 weeks that are cut out for the nation of israel
---francis on 6/3/13


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Francis, without the exact date of the crucifixion, of which that date is not set in stone
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13

The exact date is known, due to this unusual event

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
---francis on 6/3/13


Francis, without the exact date of the crucifixion, of which that date is not set in stone and not totally agreed upon by all, it would be impossible to derive the date of the stoning of Stephen. Stephen could have been stones 1 month to 1 year to 10 years after Jesus Resurrection. Paul sat on the side of a mountain 14 years with the Lord before ever starting his ministry according to scripture.

francis, you are putting your faith in a vague, not accurate to the EXACT TIMING of anything you can even prove yourself.

Stephen's words to all were in compliment to the book of Hebrews. The Book of Hebrews is a vitally important to the Church today as when first written.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


THE LAST WEEK HAS BEEN FULFILLED

Daniel 9:27 he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Jesus ministry to Israel last 7 years from 27 AD His baptism and anointing to 34 AD
3 1/2 in person, and 3 1/2 via his apostles

Jesus confirms His covenant with many
Matthew 26:28 this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Apostles continue this confirmation:
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him, God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, ..
---francis on 6/3/13


Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people

Because the 70 weeks set aside for Israel was not yet up, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not Matthew 10:5,

Acts 7:59 they stoned Stephen, .. he fell asleep.
But once Stephen is stoned in 34 AD, the 70 weeks are up watch what happens:
Acts 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Then peter gets his vision of the sheet goes to a gentile

There are three outpouring of the holy spirit
1:120 in the upper room ALL JEWS
2: The new converts in Samaria
3: The house of Cornelius ALL GENTILES

And PETER The Leader of the church is there to witness them all
---francis on 6/3/13


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According to Daniel 9:25-26 Christ was crucified at the very end of the 69th week (483 years later). Not in the middle of the 70th week. The Covenent made in the middle of the 70 th week, AGAIN is the covenant the Beast makes with Israel, and then he breaks that covenant, leading to Armageddon .

That only leaves one more week (the 70th) in which all the things listed in verse 24 are to be brought to fulfillment.(Daniel 9:27 shows there is one week left.

When Israel rejected the true Messiah (at the end of the 69th week/483rd year) God rejected them from being a nation , and no promise of a Nation or to them specifically was for 31/2 years after His ascension . Acts 1:6-11 make that clear.
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


#2. So Francis with those facts in mind, there was no Covenant to the NATION of Israel, of being restored as a Nation after Jesus ascension. When the Kingdom is restored Jesus will be right here in His Glorified Body as KING. You can see that even prophesied in Zechariah 12-14.

Again Stephen has nothing to do with ending the 70h week. And no OT scripture even remotely suggests the stoning of anyone ends the 70th week. And Stephen was not even preaching another Gospel about a Kingdom restored to Israel. If that were so, Paul never would have stoned him. Paul stoned a CHRISTIAN who parted from orthodox Judaism. Just as Paul and Peter were too persecuted by the Pharisee Jews .
---kathr4453 on 6/3/13


Daniel 9:25.. from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem ....
This starts the 70 weeks:
3. The decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra, 457 B.C. (Ezra 7.) This commands them to return with materials to rebuild Jerusalem

This would place the end of the 70 weeks at 34 AD

Jesus born at 4 BC, Baptized at age 30 AD 27, died Age 33 AD 31

69 weeks from the start date, Jesus is baptized, anointed and starts his ministry as Messiah. In the middle of the week he will be cut of
So halfway between 27 AD and 34 AD is about 31 AD actual death of Jesus.
3 1/2 years later: THE STONING OF STEPHEN the final rejection, and end of the 70 weeks
---francis on 6/2/13


---kathr4453 on 6/2/13
NERO comes way way after 34 AD which is the end of the 70 weeks, SO Nero no where fits into the 70 week prophecy on Daniel 9.

The destruction of the temple, and the abomination of desolation is in another prophecy in Daniel 11:31 Luke 21:20

None of these have to do with the great tribulation which is in Daniel 12:1

The 70 week prophecy has to do with the time set aside for the Nation of Israel

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, Daniel 9:24

This has nothing to do with the temple being destroyed or the great tribulation
---francis on 6/2/13


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Again Francis, I disagree , always have on this point. NERO was not the anti-Christ in 70 ad...why, because according to prophecy, and Revelation, the anti-Christ never commits suicide. It wasn't Nero, and it wasn't Hitler. Now there will be many anti-Christ's as scripture tells us, but the true BEAST that makes everyone bow down and worship him, and take a mark, and sits in the temple as though he were God...THAT is the abomination Francis. Nero never sat in the TEMPLE pretending to be God.
---kathr4453 on 6/2/13


Francis: We SDA's believe"

"The Saviours prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected Gods mercy and trampled upon his law. Dark are the records of human misery that earth has witnessed during its long centuries of crime. The heart sickens and the mind grows faint in contemplation. Terrible have been the results of rejecting the authority of Heaven. But a scene yet darker is presented in the revelations of the future." GC 1888, p. 37


---jerry6593 on 6/2/13


---kathr4453 on 6/1/13

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

Matthew and mark have pretty much the same thing:
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Luke is much closer to Daniel

So based on Luke,and Daniel it has to do with Roman Armies and the action in Jerusalem

This would happen in 70 AD, 36 years after the 70 weeks are expired, not part of Daniel 9.

What I really want to see is your breakdown of the 70 week.
---francis on 6/1/13


In 70 AD the temple was destroyed. This is told in reference to the abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel, not the great tribulation///

I don't agree Francis. What exactly do you believe the abomination of desolation actually means?

The truth is Francis, from the time of Jesus death and resurrection, no sacrifices in the temple were ever the will of God to begin with.

135ad was even worse than 70 Ad, Nd certainly WWII was worse than that.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


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In 70 AD the temple was destroyed. This is told in reference to the abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel, not the great tribulation

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel...Matthew 24:20 pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Mark 13:14

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part,...shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

This happens after the 70 weeks are over
---francis on 6/1/13


Francis, 70 ad was not the Great tribulation. If that were so, then Jesus would have returned in 70ad to set up the earthly Kingdom and fulfilled all the promises to the NATION, and the Gentiles saved after then would be in submission to Israel. There would have been 1000 years reign, then the earth today would be totally melted away with a new heaven and earth, and all would be on the New Heaven and earth today. Logically that never happened. satan is still alive and well, and DEATH still has not been put under Jesus feet...the last enemy.

John wrote Revelation around 96ad, to the Church, and things that were one day going to come. It either ALL has to be fulfilled, or it just has not yet come to pass.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


Francis, if in fact all the apostles except Paul were CUT OFF ---kathr4453 on 6/1/13
I do not recall anyone saying that .
It is the Israel as a nation that was cut off, not as individuals

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite,

But as a nation they are cut off

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them ...
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them....
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches...
Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief,...


No Jew ever had to worry about FLEEING on the Sabbath because of all the wrath that is to come.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13
see history of 70 AD
---francis on 6/1/13


Francis, if in fact all the apostles except Paul were CUT OFF in 37ad, how do you account for the Holy Spirit epistles written through all the other apostles after 37ad? Peter wrote his letters around 68ad, just before he died. Those letters are to the CHURCH, that is Jewish believers IN CHRIST and have obtained the SAME FAITH as all who are saved by GRACE through FAith.

Peter talks of GRACE, and F AITH a Church teaching just as Paul. Your beginning to sound like michael_e here.

There is NO SCRIPTURE whatsoever that in 37ad the 11 other apostles were CUT OFF. If they were cut off, all they preached to were deceived and hopelessly lost.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


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This Covenent made with many is the false Christ, who sits in the temple as though he were Christ , making a Covenent with Israel, God calls the Covenent of hell. Because of this , the wrath of God is coming. Thessalonians. During the middle of the 31/2 years or middle of the 7th week, all heck will break loose, called the GREAT TRIBULATION as has NEVER been before. No this has not happened yet. No moon ever turned to blood, no days were ever shortened in all of history because the sun was so hot as to scorch people.

No Jew ever had to worry about FLEEING on the Sabbath because of all the wrath that is to come.
---kathr4453 on 6/1/13


Daniel 9:27 he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

Jesus ministry to Israel last 7 years from 27 AD His bptism and anointing to 34 AD
3 1/2 in person, and 3 1/2 via his apostles

Jesus confirms His covenant with many
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The Apostles continue this confirmation:
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him, God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
---francis on 6/1/13


Those weeks are long passed.
---Love.wins on 5/31/13


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