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Is Salvation For Everyone

Is salvation for everyone? Some passages indicate "the whole world" does it mean every single person who has ever lived? Show why its true or why it is not with Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 6/3/13
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Ysha (the living Word of God in flesh) died and rose from the dead so that All types/sorts/kind of men of every race, tribe, kindred, tongue and nation (every type of human- born from above through the womb of woman) who believe - as contrary to only - Jews/Israelites (exclusively).

God Exist Savior - He is (Exist) Holy In Spirit as testifier/confirmer of His living Word with/in flesh.

God performed/performs the work of Salvation for and with/in who so ever believes.

As to the elect: They where chosen before the foundation of this ion/world as/for witnesses - That YHVH is (Exist) Elohyim/God so that "whosoever" believes may have everlasting life.
---char on 6/14/13


John 12:32 does not imply nor mean that "every soul God created" are going to be drawn by Him. Here's why,

"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65 - where's the choosing of the man? The Father gives to the Son, no mention that the man has that choice.

John 3:16 does not refer to "every soul God created" and that's simply because Christ when praying to the Father, prayed - "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine."

Confirmation that your understanding is erroneous.
---christan on 6/14/13


Samuel, if you do not believe in limited atonement, then you believe everyone will be saved, which is Universal Salvation, which is not a fact at all.
There is a hell, and many are heading in that direction already. The atonement of Christ is limited to only those who believe. If His atonement covered everyone, everyone would be saved.
---Mark_V. on 6/14/13


No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."Everyone? Ya right...---christan on 6/13/13

No man is everyman. Right!
How can I call Jesus a liar because someone rejects his invitation?

Take responsibility for you actions.
If you are in hell it is because you put yourself in hell.
Why are you trying to blame God?
Did God made you sin?
Did God make you disobey Him?
NO HE DIDN'T
You sound like a kid who is mad because you are not the only one in the candy store.
---Nikki on 6/13/13


Yes really JESUS and GOD want everyone in heaven. But he gave us the right to choose. JESUS said.

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

You say this is a lie. GOD is love according to the Bible.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I have not seen any Calvnists try to reconcile these verse with their limited atonement. Nor the word Whosoever with irrestible grace. You just keep saying some words and some verses. But we are to compare all scripture.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/13/13




Nikki, you're a perfect testimony that God indeed created "vessel of honour and dishonour". Needless to say which vessel your faith belongs to.

You call Jesus a liar when you say, "Jesus is merciful and wants everyone in heaven with Him. But not everyone wants to be in heaven with Jesus." Really?

But He declared: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me... No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Everyone? Ya right...
---christan on 6/13/13


shira4368, thank you for your sincere reply. But, I have been saved since 1973 when I was baptized.
I don't mind talking to you about Christ, but you all keep forgetting I was married to Jesus. I was temporary consecrated to Him alone as a Nun.

You and I believe the same that everyone has the chance to be saved if they accept Jesus.

Please re-read my post. MarkV and those who believe they are special and in the elect club are wrong.
Everyone is capable of being saved. Jesus didn't die for a few and the rest go to hell because JESUS DIDN'T WANT TO SAVE THEM.

Jesus is merciful and wants everyone in heaven with Him.
But not everyone wants to be in heaven with Jesus.

Jesus respects free will
---Nikki on 6/13/13


Everyone you say?---christan

I say even you Christan.
You have to be sharper when you address this Catholic.
I don't back down because you rattled off half Scripture to fit your ideas.

I read the whole Scripture

1Peter 2:6
"Behold, I am laying a stone in Zion, a cornerstone, chosen and precious, and WHOEVER believes in it shall not be put to shame."

Whoever means anyone as everyone.
Everyone gets a shot of being saved.
It is up to us to reject God.
God doesn't reject us.

Mark 2:17, Matthew 9:12 and Luke 5:31
Jesus speaks of the sick needing a doctor.
He is the doctor of our sick souls.
Everyone is sick and needs Jesus including you.
---Nikki on 6/13/13


nikki, you won't go to hell for being a catholic but because you are not saved. you do have a choice to accept Christ as your Savior or reject Christ. please don't believe a few chosen are the only ones who go to heaven. everyone knows John 3:16. when the bible speaks of the elect, it is all who have been born of the Spirit. when God speaks of His elect, it is still all who are born of the Spirit. God did not send His Son to die for a select few. you can contact me thru cn mail. I will be happy to talk to you about Christ. I am always shira4368
---shira4368 on 6/13/13


Whether or not you like hearing about the "elect of God", it matters naught, because the Holy Bible teaches that such are the only people going to heaven.
---christan on 6/12/13

Christan,

But no one knows who the elect are until the very end!

"Those who endure till the end will be save" (MT 24:13)
---Ruben on 6/13/13




For those of you who are confused with the English langauge, I will try to help you understand.

Math is my best subject, not English.
Here goes:
Whenever you put the word 'NOT' in front of something it usually means the opposite.
As I said Math is my best subject, NOT English:
English isn't my best subject.
Math is my best subject.

Now I said
"If I am lost not because of my own doing, I would hate God as well"

Allow me to break it down
I had nothing to do with being lost. I didn't sin, yet God cursed me to hell.

If I did have something to do with me being lost and am curse to hell, then God cursed me CORRECTLY because I sinned which CAUSED me to be lost.

UNDERSTAND?
---Nikki on 6/13/13


Nikki, you say,
"If I am lost not because of my own doing, I would hate God as well." You are lost because you sinned against God. Even the elect are lost when they are born. Then say,
"Why can't you understand for God to pick and choose some who will be saved is not merciful." Why is He not mercyful? You were heading to hell, and God had mercy on you. Why is that not merciful? Because He didn't choose everyone? He was not obligated to save everyone. That He saved any is the miracle, since we all deserved death. He could have let everyone go to hell, but didn't. He does show mercy, but not to everyone. The rest He leaves along. You are judging God by your standards as to what is righteous and what is not.
---Mark_V. on 6/13/13


nikki, markv is right. you need to get saved and maybe God allowed you to find christianet for a reason. I would never even dream of cursing God. in the old testiment some kids made fun of God's man and God killed them. can't remember their names. maybe someone here can remember who they were.
---shira4368 on 6/13/13


"Jesus died for everyone which includes EVERYONE." Nikki

Where's your Scripture support of such a claim you have just made? Let's just say we agree with your understanding, how then do you reconcile it with Scripture that declares,

"That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God... As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" Romans 9:8,13,21

"...even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." 1 Peter 2:8

Everyone you say?
---christan on 6/13/13


Nikki, you are a very confused Catholic, you now say,
"If I am lost not because of my own doing, I would hate God as well." You are lost because you are a sinner. It is of your own doing. Don't blame God for the sins you commit. He doesn't make you sin. You sin because you cannot help yourself. You deserve death.
What really bothers you and a lot of others is that God chooses some and not others. As if God was obligated to man. You also indicate Jesus died for all, if He did, no one would go to hell, everyone would be innocent before God because of the blood of Jesus, which is Universal salvation. The RCC does not believe in Universal salvation. Because hell is very much real even to Catholics.
---Mark_V. on 6/13/13


Why should a man not chosen curse God? He does not belief in God so why would he want to be saved? Why don't you understand that the lost hate God.--Mark_V. on 6/12/13

If I am lost not because of my own doing, I would hate God as well.
Why can't you understand for God to pick and choose some who will be saved is not merciful.

Mercy means showing kindness to one who DOESN'T need or deserve it.

You and I do not deserve God's salvation.
No one deserves to be saved.
Jesus died for everyone which includes EVERYONE.

My God is 100% mercy.
---Nikki on 6/12/13


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Thanks for your thoughts and words christian, I've read them over a few times and it's encouraging to know that it is absolutly nothing that I've done but a 100% grace. Even I have to remind myself of that, the gift of God is truly amazing. Thank you my friend.
---Tony on 6/12/13


Nikki and others, there are people here who give you bible verse after bible verse about the soveriegnty of God and what scripture teaches. You folks contnue to have closed minds, it seems, when it comes to the Word of God. Give some bible verses and we can share about the Word of God. "The Lord hath made all things, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom". Prov.16:4 Show from the bible your position. Because bible is truth, not how we feel.
---Tony on 6/12/13


"what do you think a sinner thinks when they hear about the elect?" shira4368

The apostle Paul declares, "there is none that seeketh after God". As far as God is concerned with regards to the inhabitants of this world, we are explicitly told, "And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing". That includes the elect before God mercifully and graciously calls them into the fellowship of His Son. And that's because in love He predestined them to be saved before the foundations of the world.

Whether or not you like hearing about the "elect of God", it matters naught, because the Holy Bible teaches that such are the only people going to heaven.
---christan on 6/12/13


tony, thanks for your post. I am so tired of some telling people here that only a few is "chosen". what do you think a sinner thinks when they hear about the elect? why do we witness if God has already chosen who He wants? that is so off the chart, I'm getting sick. why do the "elect" come on christianet? what good are they to sinners? so all the elect just sit on their high horse and tell the world God has chosen them? it is the most dumb stupid thing I have ever heard and by thinking that way, many will go to hell. you are going to face God one day even if you are saved.
---shira4368 on 6/12/13


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"...but about His sovereignty. I believe that is what the bible teaches." Tony

AMEN! Christ said, "Blessed art thou... flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

You said, "To be honest I'm not sure why He chose me...". One must understand and believe that God's election to salvation of the sinner is unconditional, as taught by Paul in Romans 9:11. Make no mistake, just as He declared "Jacob have I loved", He too have loved you, period.

God does not need a reason to love you or His love becomes a conditional love - i.e., you've to do something to make Him love you - which is foreign in the teachings of the Scriptures.
---christan on 6/12/13


"No, salvation is for the elect..."
Tony
I don't think that anyone who speaks like this even knows who "The Elect" is.
---Elder on 6/12/13


..there are no innocent people but all are guilty before God--Tony

Okay original sin. If you are of Adam you have original sin.
So what made you innocent and not the one curse to hell by God if you both are of Adam?
Don't you see you are going in circles.
You feel special, happy, relieved, grateful or whatever that you are an elected and cursed.
That's makes you special.
You are not born innocent as the other person cursed to hell. So, why did God allowed you to go to heaven and the other one in hell?

Tony, wake up. Your head if inflated with non truth by other Christians.
God created everyone for heaven, not just a few.
Those in hell rejected God, not God rejected them.
---Nikki on 6/12/13


Nikki, why do you say br>"So according to your logic, the man not chosen should curse God."
Why should a man not chosen curse God? He does not belief in God so why would he want to be saved? Why don't you understand that the lost hate God. Jesus said, "If God was you Father you would love Me," They do not have God so how can they love Christ? Why are they responsible? Because they have sinned against God. No one make anyone sin, they sin because they love sin. Jesus says, that the lost do the desires of their father the devil.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace we are saved).
---Mark_V. on 6/12/13


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Nikki, we pray because that is our right as children of God. Christ prayed that He might not suffer the torments of the cross, that was not the will of God and Christ then went to the cross and took the sins of His people upon Himself. Prayers are a part of Gods plan. If we pray with a believeing heart we can recieve things from God if it is in line with His will.(Matt.21:22)You say why would God send an innocent person to hell, but the bible states that there are no innocent people but all are guilty before God. (Romans 3:19,3:23) We all died in Adam. We can be made alive in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit when He leads us to true faith and repentance. We have His righteuosness imputed to us and we become new creatures in Christ.
---Tony on 6/11/13


You're right shira4368 the elect can be anyone, we don't know who they are. We have the privilige to pray for people knowing that God will listen to our prayers as His believeing children. I am praying for a nephew who needs Christ and needs to be made alive in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. To be born again by the Living God. No I,m not special at all.
---Tony on 6/11/13


"You can believe and accept what Christ did for you or you can choose not to believe and reject Him." michael_e

I trust you're coming from the "free-will" bandwagon with regards to what you have proclaim, right?

Here's food for thought for those who believe in Jesus Christ as written in the Holy Scripture, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48

And those who's in unbelief, "...even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." 1 Peter 2:8

Half a Gospel is no Gospel at all.
---christan on 6/11/13


tony, you really think you are more special than others? the "elect" is ANYONE. all are called to repentance. some of these calvanist need to get off their high horse and get back in the Word.
---shira4368 on 6/11/13


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Nikki, I'm not at all special. It was Gods will that I was chosen to believe on Christ (not mine) and I thank Him very much for that.---Tony

Why pray for them? There soul state is predetermine.
So according to your logic, the man not chosen should curse God.

No indeed. No one has the right to curse God, because everyone is chosen. But everyone has the right to REFUSE.

Let me ask you this way, Why would God curse an innocent person to hell?
Why would God create him if he didn't intend for that person to be with Him forever?

Why do you have a mean heartless God?
If you are correct that God picks and chooses who goes to heaven and hell, then your God has to be evil.
My God isn't. He is MERCIFUL
---Nikki on 6/11/13


Tony, great answer you gave. I answered Nikki and got some crazy answers from her. She believes everyone can be saved, yet believes she has to do a lot of stuff to be saved. First, get baptized, eat Christ literal flesh, and if you sinned you go to purgatory and have someone get you out, Then she answers that people who never heard of Christ can get into heaven without Christ. That Jesus Christ is not the only Way, that there is another way into heaven. Christ really has no purpose at all. Why die, it serves no purpose, since anyone can get saved without Christ? The whole concept of salvation is so mixed up that you really don't know what she really believes. Why not skip Christ altogether and call out to Mary. Thank you for your answer, peace.
---Mark_V. on 6/11/13


Nikki, I'm not at all special. It was Gods will that I was chosen to believe on Christ (not mine) and I thank Him very much for that. I know I am one of His children because I have a love for Jesus in my heart and the Holy Spirit confirms that in me. To be honest I'm not sure why He chose me, but I'm am thankful for His promise to me. I pray for others that don't know Christ, because the only way they will come to faith is if the Holy Spirit makes them alive. "No one can come to Christ unless it is granted by the Father" John 6:65 God chose to put His love on me. Again it's not about me or you being special, but about His sovereignty. I believe that is what the bible teaches.
---Tony on 6/10/13


No, salvation is for the elect, chosen by God. 2 Thess.2:13---Tony on 6/9/13

What makes you so special?
How do you know you are one of the elect?
Everyone thinks they are one of the elect. No one thinks they are doomed.
By the way the word 'us' means everyone. Notice Paul didn't say 'some' which he would use to mean selected people.

Please tell me why you are special?
---Nikki on 6/10/13


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Peter said "Repent, and be baptized every one of you" Not some. All had the choice.
Paul said "all have sinned" He "died for all" "Who gave himself a ransom for all," All not some
A saved person believed what Jesus Christ has done for him and understands that salvation is a free gift. RO 5:15, 6:23. A person is lost for one or two reasons: Either they've never heard the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the full payment for their sin (and, therefore, they're lost), or, 2) they've heard it and not believed it
You can believe and accept what Christ did for you or you can choose not to believe and reject Him.
---michael_e on 6/10/13


"His earthly ministry was to the nation of Israel not gentiles." michael_e

Well, guess what He called some of the Jews? "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." So much for your unbelief in limited atonement. And didn't the Jews crucified Him?

Did Jesus sound like He came to save everyone in Israel? Or did He came to save only those whom the Father gave to Him from eternity? Go read in detail John 6 before you blow your universal atonement horn. There are many other verses in the Bible that condemns your doctrine of a universal atonement.
---christan on 6/10/13


Craig, of course to you what we say about God is wasted. When the lost hear about Jesus Christ they say the very same thing. It is a waste of time. They could be doing so many other things they love to do. They do not want to hear about God.
But when their daughters or sons are in prison or dying, or their husbands are beating them up, they get on their knees and pray, and ask God to help their sons, daughters or husbands, and to change and save them. They know deep inside that only God can change a heart and bring someone to salvation. On their knees they know who God really is. But in life they don't want nothing to do with Him, they demand their rights.
---Mark_V. on 6/10/13


No, salvation is for the elect, chosen by God. 2 Thess.2:13 "God chose us for salvation and the Holy Spirit effected that in us to believe the gospel. We should always thank Him for that."
---Tony on 6/9/13


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well, the world I am referring to is the population. Christ died for the "whole" world,.....everyone. Christ did not die for a select few no matter if some think they are special...they are not. everyone can be saved. Call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
---shira4368 on 6/9/13


MarkV and Christan, you two are still going at it?

All these wasted years...
---CraigA on 6/9/13


please re-read my post.
---shira4368 on 6/9/13
God chose all the world but all are not part of the chosen. If you are saved you are part of the chosen.--shira4368 on 6/7/13


I read it several times.
Please break it down for me.
I not saying I am correct, but it seems to me, you are contradicting yourself in two sentences.

If God chooses the World, then everyone in the world is chosen. It depends on you or I not to accept His proposal.

I am not understanding the sentences. Please explain. I am being sincere. I am not trying to be smart.
---Nikki on 6/9/13


nikki, God chose all but the majority don't accept God for salvation. please re-read my post.
---shira4368 on 6/9/13


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God chose all the world but all are not part of the chosen. If you are saved you are part of the chosen.--shira4368 on 6/7/13

Your statement is impossible.

I think you mean to say all are chosen, but only a few accept God's proposal which are the Saved. (noun, not a verb)
---Nikki on 6/9/13


Samuel, I never said Jesus died for everyone. Concerning the elect, the ones who will come to Christ, the believers,
" God saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of His own purpose and grace, which He gave us in Christ before the ages began" (2 Tim. 1:9). and again,
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace.." (Eph. 1:3-6).
---Mark_V. on 6/9/13


Christian, your belief in limited atonement, replacement theology, and your unbelief in right division is sticking out like a sore thumb.
Jesus was ministering to his chosen people, Israel in your quotes of Matt 1:21, John 6:37.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
His earthly ministry was to the nation of Israel not gentiles.
Who is speaking? Who are they speaking to? What are they speaking about?
---michael_e on 6/8/13


micahel_e, your unbelief of the Word stands out like a sore thumb. Of course Christ's death at Calvary was sufficient to save everyone, being reason that He's God Almighty. Question is: did His death saved everyone? Scripture explicitly teaches:

1. "for he shall save His people from their sins" - is everyone His people? If they were, there would be no Muslims, Hindus or your kinds who are so deep in unbelief, right? Goes to prove, these are not His people, right?

2. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." - did the Father gave everyone to Christ? If He did, why are the unbelievers like you?

So much for universal atonement"?
---christan on 6/7/13


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Michael, God chose all the world but all are not part of the chosen. If you are saved you are part of the chosen.
---shira4368 on 6/7/13


Mark you say
//Show why its true or why it is not with Scripture.//
Then you say
//Yes, Jesus sacrifice is sufficent for all, but it only covers the sins of those who God has chosen, who are born of God//
Where is your scripture?
---michael_e on 6/7/13


"You are not a Christian because you are better, smarter, or possess a softer heart than other people. You are a Christian because the the Son fulfilled the conditions for your salvation, and the Spirit applied to you the redemptive benefits of the Son's work, not your own works. Mark_V.

Dear Mark I removed one part of a line from your statement (Father chose you in the Son,) This allows me to agree with all the rest you wrote. You keep saying this. But you I have not seen you answer where GOD said he died for all. Have you ever read Arminus arguements against this view. Nor do I remeber you answering the points shown here.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/7/13


Quote: To repeat or copy out (a group of words from a text or speech), typically with an indication that one is not the original author or speaker.

Interpretation: The action of explaining the meaning of something ~ an explanation or way of explaining what you've seen or read.

"Interpretation: Mark said Jesus died & paid the penalty for sin FOR ALL of humanity unto salvation, but then instead of choosing "ALL", God then decided to choose only some to be saved, NOT ALL. How twisted is that?!"

I didn't quote Mark!
---Leon on 6/7/13


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Leon, when you quote me, don't lie. you said,
" Mark said Jesus died & paid the penalty for sin FOR ALL of humanity unto salvation,". Never said that. His death was sufficient to save all but only saves some. Then say,
"then instead of choosing "ALL", God then decided to choose only some to be saved, NOT ALL. How twisted is that?!" You purposely twisted what I said.

"You are not a Christian because you are better, smarter, or possess a softer heart than other people. You are a Christian because the Father chose you in the Son, the Son fulfilled the conditions for your salvation, and the Spirit applied to you the redemptive benefits of the Son's work, not your own works.
---Mark_V. on 6/7/13


leon, amen brother. Jesus did die for all mankind. I don't understand how some can say Jesus died for a select few. the select few are the ones who didn't reject salvation. Jesus paid the price for all.
---shira4368 on 6/6/13


well its sort of like this...why would we need churches, missionaries, preachers, witnesses if some are pre-chosen for salvation. It just makes no sense and I am sure Christ would agree too. after all, the bible tells us He died for the whole world.
---shira43689 on 6/6/13


markv, you leave the impression to others here that Christ died for a certain few. I know who the children of God are. I also know who so ever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. when many are called but few are chosen is simply
God calls all to salvation but some reject Christ. you need to make your point more clearly.
---shira4368 on 6/6/13


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"...Jesus sacrifice is sufficent for all, but it only covers the sins of those who God has chosen, who are born of God."
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


Interpretation: Mark said Jesus died & paid the penalty for sin FOR ALL of humanity unto salvation, but then instead of choosing "ALL", God then decided to choose only some to be saved, NOT ALL. How twisted is that?!

Fact: JESUS/GOD CHOSE to die for the sins of the entire world (everyone, past, present, future)! But, it's our individual human responsibility to, "by faith", respond sensibly & believe on Him, & thereby be saved. Scripture says, ALL who "CHOOSE" to believe on Him are saved: Jn. 3:16-18
---Leon on 6/6/13


This is one of those questions that is YES and NO in it's answer, Jesus said when I be lifted up I will draw ALL MEN to myself. With God it is YES as it's stated in two different epistles from two different authors that God would have all men to be saved.

The drawing is God's work, he can damn no one without first revealing his kindness to them, obviously however all will not be saved. Common sense. Theology is greatly helped by applying everything that is written.
---Pharisee on 6/6/13


Josef, you gave (John 1:12) but forgot to put down (v.13) to indicate who these people were who received Him and gave them the right to become children of God, the one's who believe in His name. Here is who those people were:
"who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of blood, nor of the will of man, but of God" They did not become born again after they believed, they believe and became children of God after they were born of God.
I disagreed with your passages for one reason, because the way you wrote them down, it is Universal salvation. Yes, Jesus sacrifice is sufficent for all, but it only covers the sins of those who God has chosen, who are born of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/6/13


John 12:32 shows clearly and explicitly that atonement and salvation include every human being.
---Love.wins on 6/5/13


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"josef, you sound like you have no idea of what you're babbling about." :0) OK.
---Josef on 6/5/13


josef, you sound like you have no idea of what you're babbling about. Here's why:

You say:
- "John 3:16 and 1Jo 2:2 speaks specially of all the inhabitants of the planet, without exclusion." - Where does it say so?

- you then contradict yourself saying "Jesus' prayer excludes this planet's sensually based system of things, as well as those who depend upon, adhere to, and/or advocate that system." - Where in the Holy Bible are we taught of this though you tried using John 17:15,16 to no avail.

Bottomline is, you're a believer in the universal atonement. For John 17:9 explicitly contradicts universal atonement. The very fact that the apostles were chosen says your doctrine is erroneous.
---christan on 6/5/13


"Reconcile Christ's prayer to the Father in John 17:9,"---christan on 6/5/13"
Simple. John 3:16 and 1Jo 2:2 speaks specially of all the inhabitants of the planet, without exclusion.
Jesus' prayer excludes this planet's sensually based system of things, as well as those who depend upon, adhere to, and/or advocate that system.
Note that He goes on to say concerning His disciples "I do not pray that You should take them out of the 'world' (or off this planet), but that You should keep them from the evil one [who controls this world's system>2Cr 4:4]." Then makes the declaration "They (His disciples) are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Jhn 17:15,16
---Josef on 6/5/13


"Those who live in sin will be destroyed with sin." Samuelbb7

Then no one should be going to heaven based on your testimony, right? Bible declared explicitly, "As it is written, There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God."

Bible has declared that there's "NONE" who's righteous? Are you the exception to what's written in the Bible? Sounds like that's what you're saying, that one must be sinless to enter the kingdom of God.

Last I read, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
---christan on 6/5/13


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"The word "world" as it is used in John 3:16 and 1Jo 2:2 implies "every single person who has ever lived" on this planet." Josef

Reconcile Christ's prayer to the Father in John 17:9, "I pray for them: I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine." Doesn't make sense with your declaration and understanding of what you have said in your above quote.

If also according to you then, no one should be going to hell at all, right? But there are souls in Hades! What do you tell those who are in Hades now? God wanted to save you but you chose not to be saved? What kind of god do you worship? A god that cannot save because the man can resist him?
---christan on 6/5/13


MarkV, references for post concerning your question "if salvation is for everyone, don't you think everyone would be saved?"
Mat.23:33-39 Note verse 34>John 8:42-47 Note verse 44.
Again, Salvation through The Christ has been offered to all, is available to all, to be received by whosoever will. Rom 5:18> Jhn 3:16
However, not all men will receive Him. Jhn 1:11
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power [through the indwelling presence of His Spirit] to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" Jhn 1:12
Mark, I agree with you that free will does not exist. Although will is part of every man's life, that will, will reflect the will of the Father, or the will of Satan. Rom 6:16
---Josef on 6/5/13


God doesn't want anyone to not be saved therefore He made a way,Jesus,crucified,risen,and alive for evermore,in whom He bestowed the way to receive salvation. Jesus was crucified for our sins,that whosoever believes in Him shall have everlasting life. We are not automatically saved. We must repent of our sins and give our whole life to righteousness,forsaking all sin that we may receive everlasting life with Christ. Those who do not repent are sinners and will die in their sins and reap the crop they planted through living in sin,no heaven will be theirs. God wanted salvation for all but all don't accept God's gift that His son died for.
---Darlene_1 on 6/5/13


"Is salvation for everyone?" Yes.
For Father "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1Ti 2:4
He ask "Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?".... "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?" Eze 18:23
He answers "I have no pleasure in the death of [any] one who dies," says the Lord GOD... Eze 18:32
2nd question. Yes.
For "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1Jo 2:2 NIV
The word "world" as it is used in John 3:16 and 1Jo 2:2 implies "every single person who has ever lived" on this planet.
---Josef on 6/5/13


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No one suffers everlasting destruction. The Greek word is Aionios, which does not mean Everlasting, but rather for a period lasting for an eon or eons. Eons have beginnings and endings.
---Love.wins on 6/4/13


Samuel said,
"The Bible plainily states that those who choose to live in sin will not enter heaven."
No passage is found that states that. The lost do not choose to live in sin. They are physcially born in sin. The Bible calls it "dead in sin." hear the word of God concerning believers,
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins. In which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the Spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also "we all" once conducted ourselves in the lust of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath"
---Mark_V. on 6/5/13


Michael posted these verses and I wanted to show them here also.

Rom 5:18 "Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) the free gift came upon ALL men unto justification of life."

2 Cor 5:14-15, "... if one (Christ) died for ALL, then were all dead: And that he died for ALL, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."
1 Timy 2:5-6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time."

Those who live in sin will be destroyed with sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/5/13


willie_c, so you're saying that Jesus contradicted himself in Luke 23:34 and John 17:9? Your understanding seems to paint a picture that God is obligated to save the sinner, but is this true according to the Holy Bible?

Scripture never contradict Scripture! But you shamelessly use one Scripture spoken of by Christ to contradict His prayer to the Father. Both are completely different in context. What you have done is use Luke 23:34 to say because of what Christ had said, He is obliged to save everyone - even those whom the Father did not love and gave to Him.

You're understanding Luke 23:34 from the view of the Arminians.
---christan on 6/4/13


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Paul is not a univeralist, because he talks about how ones rejecting God "will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (in 2 Thessalonians 1:8).

Also, Paul says God "is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (in 1 Timothy 4:10) So, ones who disobey do not get the same benefit. As "Savior" reaching to disobedient people, He is loving them but they refuse. So, then comes everlasting punishment, because they refused how He was ready to save them. It can be like how a lifeguard is lifeguard for all, but ones can do things to keep themselves from being rescued.

This is not what I understand univeralists claim.

---willie_c: on 6/4/13


It would seem, then, that the Apostle Paul was a universalist, and therefore a heretic...
---Love.wins on 6/4/13


But Christan, Jesus prayed, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) This was praying for unbelievers.

And -- right after Jesus prayed forgiveness to them > Luke 23:39-43 > then was when that man hanging next to Jesus stood up for Him and asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes in His kingdom.

So, I can see that Jesus' prayer of forgiveness for unbelievers did result in that man being saved. But others did not receive the benefit of that prayer of forgiveness and then confess Him before men (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8), like that man did.
---willie_c: on 6/4/13


NO!

If the word "world" in John 3:16 is implied as all mankind then Jesus's prayer to the Father in John 17:9 makes no sense. This is what He prayed to the Father,

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine."

It's explicit then that the "world" in John 3:16 does not imply to all of mankind "but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine". There is a "group" which the Scripture calls the "elect", they are the ones who have been predestined to be saved. And they can be found everywhere in this "world".
---christan on 6/4/13


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L - Wins

If you think all will be saved, then you prob think the devil will be also.
---Lawrence on 6/4/13


What is being stated here is Universalism. A doctrine made popular by those who believe that GOD will not burn people for all eternity. While I also do not believe that anyone will burn for all eternity. My understanding is quite different.

The Bible plainily states that those who choose to live in sin will not enter heaven. Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

My church teaches Conditionalism. That we are not immortal souls that GOD cannot kill. That eternal life is a gift of GOD. So the wicked will cease to exist in the lake of fire.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable... which is the second death.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/4/13


"And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

But it is like how food is for everyone, but not everyone obeys what they need to do in order to eat right. So, they suffer. This is not food's fault.

"'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.'" (John 3:16)

Yes, God has loved all the world but not all have received all He desires for us. It is their fault, not His.
---willie_c: on 6/3/13


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