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Who Is Enoch

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

How did they know this was said by Enoch the seventh from Adam?

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 ---TheSeg on 6/5/13
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It is the Genetic diversity that produces giants, and great men of renown
---francis on 6/15/13

Thats a really nice opinion, Francis. Unfortunately its not supported by scripture.

---JackB on 6/15/13

This is not an opinion. This is a scientific fact

If you wanted to create a better species would you
1: Do inbreeding
2: use a shallow gene pool
3: use a large gene pool
---francis on 6/16/13


It is the Genetic diversity that produces giants, and great men of renown
---francis on 6/15/13

Thats a really nice opinion, Francis. Unfortunately its not supported by scripture.

What is supported is angels leaving their natural surrounding and their natural bodies and being imprisoned for sin comparable to that of Sodom and Gomorrah. That was sexual sin!

"meaning that even after satan and his angels were removed from heaven"---Francis

Who says this war has already happened? Everything in the book of Revelation is spoken of in the past tense even though it has not happened yet.
---JackB on 6/15/13


Gen_5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image, and called his name Seth:
Seth, which was the son of Adam.

Luk_3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Adam, which was the son of God.


/Genesis 5 tells us about the Godly lineage of Seth, all males/
Tell us no such thing!

/Now what we have here is
Genetic diversity/
Gen_4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain
Gen_4:25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bare a son, and called his name Seth

Genetic diversity, same mother and father!
---TheSeg on 6/16/13


The bible tells us ( Genesis 4)first about the ungodly lineage of Cain, then it tell us of the birth of Seth, and the sons of Seth, and that the lineage of Seth. This lineage started to call upon the name of the LORD. Genesis 4:26. Thus they were the son of God

Cain's line did not call on God, all males Genesis 4

Genesis 5 tells us about the Godly lineage of Seth, all males

Genesis 6 informs us that there although all we read about were men in the lineage of Cain, and Seth, there were also women birth, and the Lineage of Seth, married into the Lineage of Cain

Now what we have here is
1: interfaith marriage
2: Genetic diversity

It is the Genetic diversity that produces giants, and great men of renown
---francis on 6/15/13


some angels continue to fall a...
---JackB on 6/15/13

"angels continue to fall" meaning that even after satan and his angels were removed from heaven, some of the angels that remained on God's side turn from God from time to time, and are removed from heaven, and that the giants of today, and the mighty men of today are the result of new fallen angels and earthen women?
---francis on 6/15/13




---JackB on 6/15/13

It did not strike me as odd that two men had to carry a cluster of grapes

One day I asked my spouse to buy me a apricot, when i saw what my spouse had brought home i was amazed, it was as small as a kiwi

I called my mother and asked her about that, she was amazed too, in our travels we used to having apricots as big as cantaloupes, my spouse had never heard of such a thing
---francis on 6/15/13


Do you believe that one of either Noah, Noah's wife, orNoah's sone wives were children of giants?-Francis

I believe that just as satan continues to deceive mankind after the flood, some angels continue to fall and do the exact same things that those who are now chained did before the flood. "and also after that" (Gen 6:4)

Its not just the people in the land that were big but even the fruit was larger than normal. Two men having to carry a cluster of grapes? (Numbers 13)
That didnt strike you as odd?
---JackB on 6/15/13


Im sorry francis!

Gen_6:1 when men multiply and daughters were born
Gen_6:2 the sons of God saw the daughters of men took them wives
What Seth children ever saw girls, then who were their mothers?

Anyway here!
Gen_6:4 when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them,

I understand you believe The Sons Of God were the sons of Seth.
But to be a Son Of God you have to be born of God!

Joh_1:12 to them gave he power to become the sons of God,
But!
Joh_1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Simple truths, but you cant believe the truth!
---TheSeg on 6/14/13


---micha9344 on 6/14/13
I am always willing to talk about Mrs Ellen g White, all I ever ask is that yuo quote from her ORIGINAL WRITING

Now the bible does NOT that giants were produced from angsl and earth women

It says this: Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days ( does not tell us who parented them) and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

years after the flood, we still have mighty men borne to earth parents, and we still have giants ( tallpeople) born to earth parents

So the idea that Giants are from angels and women is a fable
---francis on 6/14/13


because the book of Enoch contains so many false teaching, it cannot be used as a source of truth-francis on 6/14/13
This would then also apply to 19th century false prophets such as the ones in, and derived from, the Millerite movement.
---micha9344 on 6/14/13




Hebrews 11:8...Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Where in scripure have you seen these?
Nowhere? Good
francis


Where in scripture have you seen these?
Hebrews 11:8 and Jude 1:9
And there they stay!

Unfortunately the fact is a book was found together with some other books.
You know the ones they call the Holy Scripture today!
And not just one or two pages a book!
That predate Jude, Im not telling you to believe it.
You keep believe whatever you want!
---TheSeg on 6/14/13


--TheSeg on 6/14/13

Hebrews 11:8...Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Where in scripure have you seen these?

Nowhere? Good

Some things do stem from Oral tradition, rather than Jewish fables

because the book of Enoch contains so many false teaching, it cannot be used as a source of truth

SEEK TRUTH
---francis on 6/14/13


Jewish fables ah yes! a deliberately false or improbable account.
That must be why it in the Holy Scripture.

Jud_1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Telling fairy tales to all beloved of God, called to be saints!
But more than just this, I can see why this book might be a problem for you.
Right off hand I can think of seven good reasons.

Rev_1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/14/13


---JackB on 6/14/13
Well jack, first of all, you said to the seg " get him seg" when segis tring to convine me that Enoch is scripture,so you are guilty by association, agree?

So God wiped out all the ungoldy, saved Noah and his family, and years later there are still Giants in the lands.
Do you believe that one of either Noah, Noah's wife, orNoah's sone wives were children of giants?

JackB, we still have giants in the world today.
many medical reason for giants

biologiclaly, what it takes to create a stronger species is what it took to make the giants in genesis 6
---francis on 6/14/13


Francis, I never said that the book of Enoch is scripture. Anyone who has ever studied it knows it is a fake. That does not mean that the events mentioned in Genesis 6 were more than just godly men mating with ungodly women. Maybe you can explain how the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain can produce giants. The sons of God are mentioned at a time before man was even created in the book of Job.

Every civilization has legends of the "gods from the sky" mating with human woman and producing offspring which ruled the earth. Just as every civilization has a flood story. These things happened.
---JackB on 6/14/13


Have in its pages the very same words used by Jude in the Holy Scripture!

So unless you can explain, how this was done!
Your words are useless to me.
As always
Peace!
---TheSeg on 6/14/13

good for you kid keep up your work

as for me i am Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Titus 1:14
---francis on 6/14/13


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Unfortunately francis the fact is!

That the book found with the Dead Sea Scrolls dating back to 150 years before Christ. Entitled The Book Of Enoch!
Have in its pages the very same words used by Jude in the Holy Scripture!

So unless you can explain, how this was done!
Your words are useless to me.
As always
Peace!
---TheSeg on 6/14/13


stop looking for ways to make others feel insecure .
---JackB on 6/14/13
If you are standing on this:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

and this

Rev 14:12 saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You can NEVER EVER be made to feel insecure

But if you are not standing on the LAW and the TESTIMONY, then you should feel VERY insecure

If you submit to God nad stop trying to find way to get aound the law, and the testimony you will be on solid ground, all else is sinking sand PERIOD!!!
---francis on 6/14/13


It means Francis that its about time someone put you in your place.
---JackB on 6/14/13
And you are going to do that by telling me that the book of Enoch is scripture?

REALLY?
REALLY?

Sorry that is NOT my place
---francis on 6/14/13


It means Francis that its about time someone put you in your place. You seem to think that you have the right to stick your nose in the middle of your brothers and sisters relationship to Christ. Its the same as sticking your nose in someone elses marriage without being asked for your opinion.

You should honestly worry about your own relationship to Christ and stop looking for ways to make others feel insecure in theirs.
---JackB on 6/14/13


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Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/13/13


--TheSeg on 6/12/13
expand
---francis on 6/13/13


What the bible says?

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Saints are Called, Search For, Made Intercession For and Sanctified By God!
---TheSeg on 6/12/13


-TheSeg on 6/12/13

wow you read, yet you did not get it, so here it is again


None of these ( those which the apostles were addressing, and those who were saluting)are dead

Some of them ( the saints not which paul was speaking to or from)have fallen asleep
---francis on 6/12/13


So to make it clear to you, you do not become a saint upon death.

Even when you die, you are still remembered as a saint

Now how does the bible describe the saints:

Revelation 12:17 the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 6/12/13


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I really feel sorry for you now.
francis

I thank God thought the name of Jesus Christ.
I don't have to worry or feel sorry for you or any other man on this earth.

If you want to believe you're a saint, makes no deference to me.
You go ahead and believe any strange things you want, what's one more or less?


So francis, I love the way you added:
None of these are dead!

Do you remember me talking to you about Mat_27:52?
And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

So I take it, you no longer believe they're dead in the graves, until the resurrection?
Come-on let me see that Old Soft Shoe.
Use some sand.
---TheSeg on 6/12/13


JackB on 6/12/13
If that si true, what did you mean by " get him seg?"

under what context are you suggesting that?
---francis on 6/12/13


Start with your Sainthood.
A person who has died and has been declared a saint by canonization.
---TheSeg on 6/11/13

I really feel sorry for you now.
Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
Romans 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
1 Corinthians 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Corinthians 13:13 All the saints salute you.

None of these are dead

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Some of them have fallen asleep
---francis on 6/12/13


"where does that live you " the seg" and JackB?
---francis on 6/11/13"


I supposed right there where Paul was.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief - 1 Tim 1:15

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members - Romans 7:22,23

...every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted - Luke 18:14
---JackB on 6/12/13


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Let's start with this! Do not put my name under all this!
This is something you said, not me!

Start with when I francis said this:
I am one of the saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
I am one who has the light of God in me: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them). Isaiah 8:20
In the What Is A Southern Baptist Blog on 2/4/13.

Start with your Sainthood.
A person who has died and has been declared a saint by canonization.
Person of exceptional holiness
Model of excellence or perfection of a kind, one having no equal
---TheSeg on 6/11/13


I have NEVER met a christian who does not consider himself one of the saints

There are none
All christians are part of the saints of God

where does that live you " the seg" and JackB?
---francis on 6/11/13


I am one of the saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
I am one who has (the light of God in me): (To the law and to the testimony): (if they speak not according to this word), (it is because there is no light in them). Isaiah 8:20
--TheSeg on 6/10/13

Do you consider yourself one of the siants?

And do you think that God is wrong in Isaiah 8:20 and Revelation 14:12?

In which of these did I say I was sinless?
---francis on 6/11/13


JackB, I really I'm not trying to get him. I just feel when a man starts with:
"I am" he should finish with "nothing."

Also if a man is to speak the truth, he should not have to twist the word of God.
To make it fit!

If you have to change the word of God to make it fit,
Well, then it's not the word of God. But your!

AS Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all!

Most of all including me!
That's all!

May all see that God has blessed each and every one of you!
I love you all Brother and Sisters.
God's Peace
---TheSeg on 6/11/13


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Get him, Seg!
---JackB on 6/11/13


be a man for once, post one single post where I have said I am sinless
francis

What Is A Southern Baptist-francis on 2/4/13
I am one of the saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
I am one who has (the light of God in me): (To the law and to the testimony): (if they speak not according to this word), (it is because there is no light in them). Isaiah 8:20


If any of you believe, these words above are truth!
Read his: you may be a Southern Baptist if:
francis, Believed it was very funny!

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall (keep the whole law), and yet (offend in one point), he is guilty of all!
---TheSeg on 6/10/13


1Jn_3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
For sin is the transgression of the law!

If a man, say I keep the law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of transgressing the law!
For sin is the transgression of the law!

Now if a man in truth says I keep the law, this man does not transgress the law.
Again, for sin is the transgression of the law!

To say I keep the law and still transgress the law is stupid.
You cannot keep the law, by transgressing the law.

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Let alone for a living human to say I'm one of the saints!
---TheSeg on 6/10/13


I am not the one saying I am sinless 1Jn_1:8
---TheSeg on 6/10/13

be a man for once, post one single post where I have said I am sinnless

Of course I do not expect you to say that Michael and Jesus are the same, you are NOT YET interested in truth
---francis on 6/10/13


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I am not the one saying I am sinless 1Jn_1:8
Nor am I saying Michael the archangel is Christ Jud_1:9
Nor Sons of God(the angels) did not take wives Gen_6:2

Nor the one who said:
//These men who identified with God, and called themselves by the name of God, were the sons of God John_1:12//
Because of John 1:13 the every next line!

Nor the one who try to change
//what is equally clear is that angels do not marry
Matthew_22:30 For in the resurrection//
Not one of these has been resurrected!
Remember!

If scripture is the inspiration of God!
Then Jud_1:14 was inspired by God. Not me!

Then you want to talk about God's truth?
When you have proved you have no truth! 1Jn_1:8
---TheSeg on 6/10/13


For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
---TheSeg on 6/10/13
Can't you see that this is what si happening to you?

You believe that thebook of Enoch is truth, only because you ahev not saught out God's truth YET
---francis on 6/10/13


That's exactly why I said:
That's too bad wish I could help!

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see, and that they which see might be made blind.


/So when someone calls Satan and his demons sons of God, well it can only be laughable/
francis

Yes I know! Some do find it laughable, such as yourself.
Yet some others find it sad!

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
---TheSeg on 6/10/13


In Gen_12 God tell him: Get thee out, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation
---TheSeg on 6/9/13
and what of the city, when did they speak of the city which hath foundation ( the new Jerusalem)


Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men
The sons of God!

The Bible just did and will again tomorrow.
Take it up with God!
---TheSeg on 6/9/13

LOL thanks for the joke kid. I had a rough day today, I was removing a bolt to do some repairs on my car, rounded the head, and eventually broke a wrench, rough day

So when some one calls satan and his demons sons of God, well it can only be laughable
---francis on 6/10/13


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Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
I have not found a record of God speaking to Abraham about this city
francis

Thats too bad wish I could help!

But the line right before that Heb 11:9 does says:
By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

So you should understand it was by faith, he believed God!
In Gen_12 God tell him: Get thee out, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation

Now the question should be did he find it, by faith!
---TheSeg on 6/9/13


Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

The fact that Enoch made these statement, should in no way be associated with the heresy that is the book of Enoch

Even in the times of the NT, they still incorporated popular oral tradition, or genuine writing that are true
like this quote from paul

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

I have not found a record of God speaking to Abraham about this city

If you find it, please post it for me, as i believe that this much like Jude is from oral or other tradition but unlike the book fo Enoch is true
---francis on 6/9/13


No one can ever refer to Satan and his demons as "sons of God."
francis


Gen_6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth
Men!
Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men
The sons of God!

The Bible just did and will again tomorrow.
Take it up with God!
---TheSeg on 6/9/13


Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:

And this has nothing to do with marring earthly women
No one can ever refer to Satan and his demons as " sons of God." By the time Seth ( really Cain) is born, there has already been a separation between Satan and his angels, and Michael and His angels.

The reason given for the fall fo Lucifer is:
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the most High.
---francis on 6/9/13


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Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are IN HEAVEN.
---francis on 6/7/13


Jude 1:6 states that some angels did not keep their first estate (heaven) and left their natural habitation/bodies.(Gr. oiketerion)

Theres only one other place in scripture that Greek word is used. 2 Cor 5:2 speaks of our bodies and how we will receive heavenly houses (Gr. oiketerion) later on.

Clearly these angels left their natural form and took on others that were able to reproduce giving birth to the mighty men of renown (ie. the Greek titans, demigods, etc)

I do not believe in the book of Enoch however. Its clearly a fake.
---Jasheradan on 6/9/13


I stress YET because I do hope that one day soon, you will consider what is TRUE
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
francis

This from a man who believes Michael one of the archangels is Christ the Lord my God!
You should devote yourself to learning what the true is before you even open your mouth.

But you will not do this, because you feel you are righteous before God!
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

If you want to help others help yourself first!
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
---TheSeg on 6/9/13


People are assuming that Jude quoted from Enoch, and not realizing that the book itself was written based on what Jude wrote
francis

That in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established!

The Book of the Watchers, found in chapters 1 to 36, probably was written in the third century BC. Biblical scholars have identified portions of this narrative on several copies from Qumran cave four.
Some professional historians and editors date this incomplete manuscript (4QEnocha) between 200 BC and 150 BC. Many Qumran copies were first written in the Aramaic language." According to chapters 1 to 36 of this book, Enoch is a righteous man who has received heavenly visions.

Was Jude alive in 150 BC?
---TheSeg on 6/9/13


---TheSeg on 6/9/13

If you want to believe that the book of Enoch is scripture
Go ahead. I told you before this blog, that I can tell that you are not committed to God, because you are not YET committed to the truth

I am not surprised that you uphold the book of Enoch at
all. I find no fault with anyone reading Jude, and then reading Enoch to see if that is the source. That is very reasonable.
But once you have read Enoch, and see how many times it is inconsistent with the bible, that though should perish from your mind. You should now consider another source

I stress YET because I do hope that one day soon, you will consider what is TRUE


John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
---francis on 6/9/13


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francis
Mat_3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

StrongAxe
It just seems to fit!
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/9/13


People are assuming that Jude quoted from Enoch, and not realizing that the book itself was written based on what Jude wrote

look at this scripture about Abraham:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Can you find for me, where God and Abraham talked about a city which have foundations?

with that information, I can now write a book called the book of Abraham and tell a story fo God and Abraham talking about such a city

I will include in it Abraham's love for Ishmael over Isaac, and his love and longing for Hagar

I will give the details of His fathers death

I will give the details of his worshiping of idols and of God before his call
---francis on 6/9/13


TheSeg:

I looked it up in Wikipedia article on the Epistle of Jude (which links to an article about the Book of Enoch).

The nice thing about Wikipedia is that they have a strict policy of not allowing any original material - everything they publish must already exist in previously-published works, that they then reference, so it's easy to corroborate.


francis:

You said: If you read the book, it is 100 % clear that it is un-scriptural, un-bilical, and blasphemous

If this is true, why did Jude quote it authoritatively? Apparently he didn't share your opinion of it. And, considering that Jude is scripture, whom should we trust more, Jude or francis?
---StrongAxe on 6/8/13


So if you're that scared you shouldn't be trying to twist the truth.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And this is why it's given!
For reproof, correction, instruction.
Do you understand this, good!

Luk_24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these!

Not I'm words Jude, take it up with him!
---TheSeg on 6/8/13


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2 Thessalonians 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
---francis on 6/8/13


What is equally clear is that angels do not marry
francis

It says the angels of God in heaven do not marry!
These are not in heaven are they! Dont try to change it!

For in the resurrection they are as angels of God in heaven
Non of these have been resurrected? Is this Clear!

Are you also implying these that left are angels?
Here too clearly not, were angels!

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.)
---TheSeg on 6/8/13


clearly the angels in heaven are called son of God

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

what is equally clear is that angels do not marry
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Book of enoch CHAPTER VI.

1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.
---francis on 6/8/13


No they're not.
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

These were born of flesh and blood women!
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
But keep trying.
---TheSeg on 6/8/13


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Genesis 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son, and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

These men who identified with God, and called themselves by the name of God, were the sons of God John 1:12

Genesis 4:26 to genesis 5:30 tells us about the godly line that arose from Seth


Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6 tells us how those who were of the godly line of Seth, then married into the ungodly line of men. Not angels and human
---francis on 6/8/13


Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Joh_1:12 the sons of God
Rom_8:14 the sons of God.
2Co_6:18 and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Mark_12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Clearly then the Sons of God are the angels, that are in heaven!
Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen_6:4 when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them
So does the bible
---TheSeg on 6/7/13


For anyone interested, you can google "Ethiopian Canon" and find a lot of interesting material.
---Love.wins on 6/7/13


\\the book also tells us that the angels in heaven had human wives,\\

So does Genesis 6:2-3, unless "daughters of men" refers to a pre-Adamic race.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/7/13


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The Enoch accounts come mainly from oral tradition

Someone of course realized that there was no book of enoch and supplied on

If you read the book, it is 100 % clear that it is un-scriptural, un-bilical, and blasphemous

angel do not marry and have children

the book also tells us that the angels in heaven had human wives,

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels which are in heaven.
---francis on 6/7/13


Some believe parts of the book of Enoch are much earlier. But we cannot tell for sure. I believe the part Jude the Brother of JESUS quoted is from the original sayings.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/7/13


StrongAxe, the more I read what Jude wrote just before and after and more I believe he saying these are the words of Enoch.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you
You seem to be saying he just thought it should be there.
Well thats not giving all diligences, is it?

So you dont believe this was not inspirited of God, then?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So then Jude is not scripture.
(I am just asking what you think)

PS!
Before you say around 200BC, I saw 200AC, Im an old man, sorry!
So you dont believe the book of Enoch, right?
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/6/13


Even though it was written around 200 BC (clearly not BY Enoch), Jude thought it was legitimate enough to quote as authoritative.
StrongAxe

I also understand part or parts of a Book of Enoch was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The manuscripts have been dated to various ranges between 408 BCE and 318 CE
But not the parts of Book of Enoch are you sure, where did you read this?

Thanks!
---TheSeg on 6/6/13


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\\Are there no people in the world that understand or read Geez today?\\

Yes, there are.

Ethiopian Orthodox and some scholars.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/6/13


Jude 1:14-15 contains an almost word-for word quote from:

1 Enoch 1:9
"And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones To execute judgment upon all, And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Even though it was written around 200 BC (clearly not BY Enoch), Jude thought it was legitimate enough to quote as authoritative.
---StrongAxe on 6/6/13


Can you read Geez, the liturgical language of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Or Amharic, the vernacular of Ethiopia?

Neither are written with the Roman alphabet, btw.
Cluny

Sometimes the things people say, amaze me.
Do you read the Old Testament in Hebrew or English?
How about the New Testament in Greek or English?
You ever read about the Rosetta Stone?
Are there no people in the world that understand or read Geez today? "D'oh!"

How will I ever know?
Simplicity is sometimes a blessing.
Maybe that's why I'm so simple.
Thank Boss!

Christ is risen!
Back at you
---TheSeg on 6/6/13


\\Also trying to find a copy of the Ethiopian Orthodox bible, txt or pdf.\\

Can you read Geez, the liturgical language of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Or Amharic, the vernacular of Ethiopia?

Neither are written with the Roman alphabet, btw.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/6/13


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The books of the Ethiopian canon were translated into their ancient language, Geez, in the 6th century.
---Love.wins on 6/5/13


How did they know this was said by Enoch the seventh from Adam?

"All Scripture is God-breathed [INSPIRED BY GOD] and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

2 Tim. 3:16-17, NIV
---Leon on 6/5/13


There are many sources fromoutselde the bible, fromw hich the bible writer drew from. Then also there is the oral tradition
---francis on 6/5/13


Cluny, well said. One can find similar quotes in the extant books of Enoch, which I have here in translation. Paul quoted ancient Greek philosophers a few times. That doesn't mean we need to give undue attention to them.
---Love.wins on 6/5/13


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Cluny you dont know when this book of Enoch was first put in the Ethiopian Orthodox bible, would you?
Trying to call just to ask them, cant find a time line yet.

I also understand part or parts of a Book of Enoch was found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Which I find to be pretty cool, but thats just me for you.

Also trying to find a copy of the Ethiopian Orthodox bible, txt or pdf.
Man that Jashers book (There are several) is bigger than the OT.
Thanks

willie_c:
What is the (c:) = see?
if it was direct inspiration or prophecy during a meeting he/they would have said:
God, Christ, the word. Not Enoch prophesied of these, as coming from Enoch.
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/5/13


I don't know, Seg. It is not a quote from earlier scripture. So, I'm guessing they could have gotten it >

maybe from direct inspiration, right while Jude was writing this

maybe from scriptures which have not been found and canonized

maybe there are writings now in possession, even, but not canonized

oral tradition, maybe, through ones Jude knew he could trust

a prophecy during a meeting?

Jude does not say. He does not give a Bible chapter and verse.

And Enoch got raptured.

God is not limited to how we have things set up.
---willie_c: on 6/5/13


What was considered Scripture was much more fluid in NT times than it later became, believe it or not.

And the OT refers to such writings as the Book Jasher that have since been lost.

There are several Books of Enoch that have been floating around for centuries, if not millennia. One of them is accepted as part of the OT by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/5/13


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