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What Is Excommunication

In an older blog, we chatted about 'excommunication'. There are two places it could come from, either John 20:23, ending in 'they are not forgiven' or Matt18:15-17, ending in 'treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector'.

Which of the two does excommunication mean?

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nikki, Jesus words are in red but the rest of scripture is written by the hand of men controlled by the living God. scripture never contradicts itself...never.--shira4368 on 7/11/13

I agree. The words in the bible are controlled by God.
But, Jesus' Words holds more weight than anyone else expect when His Father speaks.

Peter, Paul, James, and John letters in the Bibles are God's words. But, not the Word.

I don't understand why some what to lower Jesus'Word to the same level as His Disciple?
Not me! Peter, Paul, John and James didn't die for me. They died for Jesus.

You all don't want to admit it, but I know that you believe Jesus'Words are of higher standing than the disciples.
---Nikki on 7/12/13


jews are very peaceful people
---shira4368 on 7/10/13
Which one?
the let me do you taxes for you Jews
the your honour my client is innocent Jews
The every thing is on sale, buy one stereo get batteries free Jew
Or the hold my fizzy bubbler and hummus while i reload my american made modified M-16 Jews?
---francis on 7/10/13

WOW Francis, I'm shocked. And disappointed to hear this coming from you.
---kathr4453 on 7/12/13


Cluny: You are a pompous religious bigot! you say:

"Becoming Orthodox is the way to salvation."

FALSE!

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

"It's the only church where the true worship is offered as is pleasing to the Lord and the pure Word of God is preached without fear or favor."

FALSE!

Here is true worship:

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

"The [sic] merely substitute their infallible selves for an infallible pope." As you do!

---jerry6593 on 7/12/13


I am appalled by the religious bigotry on this website. The Bible teaches that salvation is an individual - not a collective - event. We are not saved by membership in a denomination, but by our personal relationship with God. Thus, as a SDA (Are you listening Francis?), I look forward to sharing heaven with Catholics like Nikki, with Baptists like Shira, and even with my Jewish friends.

And where do we get off usurping God's job by judging whether or not someone else is saved? Where's the "Christian love" I hear so much about?



---jerry6593 on 7/12/13


Nikki, where ever you find a passage that someone healed someone, it is God doing the healing. No one in and of himself has the power to do the healings Jesus did in His ministry. We are told that handerchiefs are pieces of material healed others, that does not mean those pieces of material have power. It is still the power of God which is healing when someone touched the material. Just like the bread and wine has no power to turn itself into the literal body and blood of Christ. Jesus has been removed by all the traditions in the RCC, first, when they removed Jesus and replace Him with Constantine as Head of Jesus Church and the second reason when the Second Commandment was removed. That opened the door to idols worship and not Jesus.
---Mark_V. on 7/12/13




A bit of history in the Jewish/Gentile narrative: TheJewsAndTheirLies-Luther.pdf
The book was written by Martin Luther.
---Nana on 7/12/13


nikki, Jesus words are in red but the rest of scripture is written by the hand of men controlled by the living God. scripture never contradicts itself...never. nikki, I have come to admire you very much but your thinking is shallow concerning the things of God and His written Word.
---shira4368 on 7/11/13


francis, you are a bigot from the bottom pits. jews are peaceful. how do you make a living. how does Gillette sell their razors. they are cheap but then go buy a blade for it. that is called marketing. everyone is doing it. you will never see a jew threaten another person. if you do its rare. I admire the jews for their peaceful attitudes. you should follow suite. I am aware that certain people hate jews but you know francis, they don't care who hates or likes them.
---shira4368 on 7/11/13


Nikki: Every word in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the Word of God. Mark is right, Scripture does not contradict Scripture. The Epistles teach Christian doctrine.---Grandma on 7/11/13

Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture. It you all who misintrepret Scripture that contradicts Scriptures.

So, when Peter denies Jesus 3 times are you saying Jesus denied Himself?
Of course not!.

So, lets not play around claiming Peter's, John and Paul's words are Jesus' Words.

The words in red are actually Jesus' Words.

That is why the words are color coded for you and I to know when Jesus speaks from anyone else speaking.

A difference!
---Nikki on 7/11/13


Jesus never gave His power to man. That is a lie. No man has the power of Jesus Christ. God has the power to heal others.---Mark_V. on 7/11/13

Really?

Re read my post:

He can give the power to heal someone like HE gave Peter the power to heal in ACTS
Are do you think Peter healed the man on his own strength?
No the power of the Holy Spirit was given to Peter to heal the man.---Nikki on 7/11/13

Do you understand the last sentence?
Peter didn't heal the man on his own.

The Holy Spirit is God who has the power, but given to Peter.

The poor Beggar saw Peter only when he was healed.
Peter gave God the credit.
---Nikki on 7/11/13




Mark V: 'Jesus never gave His power to man.'

Accepted

However, in a number of places, both in the Gospels and in Acts, most importantly in John 20:22-23, about forgiveness and retention of sins, Christ, and thus God, appear to have delegated some power through the disciples

Now here there are two points where one can question the normal Catholic Church view:

1) That this power was given only to the 11, and probably also to Stephen the new 12th. Maybe?

2) That if the disciple/pastor/priest is not right with God in some way (exact way I do not know) then that power at least of retaining one's sins is lost until the person (the leader in the church) is properly back with God
---Peter9556 on 7/11/13


Nikki, You argue,
" You are the one undermining Jesus' authority." Jesus never gave His power to man. That is a lie. Especially to pedophile and child molester priest. No man has the power of Jesus Christ. God has the power to heal others. You say, "He can give power to anyone HE wishes! He can give the power to heal someone like HE gave Peter the power to heal in ACTS. Peter didn't heal anyone, God did. You keep forgetting God. Like the RCC did with Jesus all through history. Removed Him from the throne when they made the pope head of Jesus Church. Jesus is the Head of the Church. When prayers went to saints and Mary, Christ went out the window, and when priest forgive sins, when only God can forgive sins.
---Mark_V. on 7/11/13


Nikki: Every word in the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is the Word of God. Mark is right, Scripture does not contradict Scripture. The Epistles teach Christian doctrine.

1 John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Nowhere in that verse is a Catholic priest mentioned.

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

This verse makes it clear that we do not need to confess our sins to a Catholic priest. We can confess to another trusted believer in Christ.
---Grandma on 7/11/13


You removed Jesus from His Throne.---Mark_V.

Was I or you? You are the one undermining Jesus' authority.
He can give power to anyone HE wishes!
He can give the power to heal someone like HE gave Peter the power to heal in ACTS.
Are do you think Peter healed the man on his own strength?
No the power of the Holy Spirit was given to Peter to heal the man.

John 20:22-23
"Receive the Holy Spirit, Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
Not only to forgive, but also the power to REFUSE to forgive them.

Not everyone, just his Disciple. Remember Magdalene?
She saw Jesus first. But, Jesus didn't breathe on her at all. In fact HE told her to get the Disciples.
---Nikki on 7/11/13


Nikki, the Bible does not contradict itself. God does not contradict His Word. There is a big difference in a man saying, I forgive your sins, which is what you are saying priest can do. And, God forgives your sins according to the gospel. That is all the power that was given to them. No one has the power to forgive sins but God.
The passage you gave in (John 20:22,23) is not saying the disciples had the power to forgive sins. Jesus was saying that the believer can boldly declare the certainity of a sinner's forgiveness by the Father because of the work of His Son if that sinner had repented and believed the gospel.
A priest can never be a Mediator or an Advocate.
You removed Jesus from His Throne.
---Mark_V. on 7/11/13


jews are very peaceful people
---shira4368 on 7/10/13
Which one?
the let me do you taxes for you Jews
the your honour my client is innocent Jews
The every thing is on sale, buy one stereo get batteries free Jew
Or the hold my fizzy bubbler and hummus while i reload my american made modified M-16 Jews?
---francis on 7/10/13


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nikki, they were good to my son. he carried a truck of something to be delivered in their neighborhood. they treated him good and told him he was safe. my son never saw a policeman in new york city. that says a lot. being good won't get anyone to heaven tho. it takes the blood of Christ to wash your and my sin away. God bless
---shira4368 on 7/10/13


Jews are very peaceful people--shira4368

Indeed they are! Very safe neighborhood and good! They just want others to leave them alone.

Jewish people confess to Rabbis. If you go to a Jewish neighbor (If they let you in) you will see a old Rabbi sitting down with a empty chair next to him.
Any Jew can sit next to him and confess his wrong, sins or asked advice.

They don't believe Jesus is the prophet.
But, Christian life came from Jewish' tradition
If you go into a Synagogue and a Catholic Church it would look very similar.

Oddly, Protestant don't understand our worship style, but a Jewish person does.
Jewish people have even said we are copying them.
We gladly answer: "Yes we are."
---Nikki on 7/10/13


We're told (1 John 2:1,2) That's why your wrong.---Mark_V. on

Why do you all always use Paul or any other Apostle to undermine Jesus??
Who is greater?
Jesus or His Disciples?

That's why I said what I said before.
JESUS TRUMPS PAUL.

I gave you John 20:22-23 Jesus' own WORDS and you return an answer with 1 John 2???
You are are debating an Apostle's words with the LIVING WORD???

You all are amazing to me.

If you are confused about the Bible take my advice and study the Gospels.
All other books in the Bible flows from or points to the Gospels.

You can be SAVED with just the 4 Gospels.
But, not without the Gospels.
All else is not needed if you have Jesus' Words in the Gospel.
---Nikki on 7/10/13


Nikki, your wrong, The Lord never gave priest power to forgive sins against God. You are misinterpreting the passages. We're told (1 John 2:1,2) concerning when we sin,
"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. "And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous," and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world"
That's why your wrong. You are making the priest the Mediator and Advocate to the Father, and saying the priest is the propitatiation for our sins. You took Jesus out of picture. Just as many of your traditions do. And you say the RCC is obedient to Jesus. They exclude Jesus period.
---Mark_V. on 7/10/13


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nikki, the jewish people also don't believe Jesus has been born yet either. they are still looking for him so to the jew, they don't have an entercessor. they confess to I don't know who but it isn't God in Jesus name. my son delivered something to the jewish community in new york and he said it was the safest place in new york city. jews are very peaceful people but they still don't believe that Christ has come yet.
---shira4368 on 7/10/13


Shira, we are have to agree to disagree.
I interpert John 20:19 for confession.
Many people don't know, but Jewish people also have confession.

We believe Jesus started the new Priesthood in the upper room at the last supper.
Offering the everlasting Sacrifice of his body and blood made present. Not over and over again, but made present again. (I hope you understand what I am trying to say?)

The old Priesthood had confession, as we have the same in the RCC.

But, please understand we believe it is Jesus blood that forgives our sins and saves us, not the Priests.
---Nikki on 7/9/13


nikki, we are to ask God forgiveness in the name of Jesus Christ. a priest is not our intercessor, Jesus is. the priest can pray for you in Jesus name but he is not my intercessor. this is not the same as sharing our burdens with each other. we are expected to pray for each other.
---shira4368 on 7/9/13


nikki, sorry to tell you John 20: is not talking about a priest. it is speaking of Jesus and forgiving each other. the father Jesus is talking about is not a priest, it is God. God is the father that sent Jesus to die on a cross for us.
---shira4368 on 7/9/13


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my bible tells me to pray to God thru and in the name of Jesus Christ.---shira4368

Your Bible also teaches confession. John 20:21-23
"Peace be with you. As the Father has sent be, so I send you,"And when you he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

Note, He didn't give them power to read minds. He gave powers to forgive sins.
How can a Priest forgive or not forgive sins on Jesus'behalf if someone doesn't confess to them?

Only mortal sins (deadly sins) has to be confessed. Venial sins does not. But graces comes from Confession strength us.

The RCC is obedient to Jesus.
---Nikki on 7/9/13


Nikki, I also am against abortion very much. But what happened to Kerry was uncall for. No one should have to confess publicly. You said,
"But a public person like John Kerry was warned in 2004 when he was a president Candidate.
He was in the mid-west area and told not to go to communion unless he confesses publicly and denounce abortion.
All the Priest were forbidden to give him Holy Communion if he came up in line"
All the priest were wrong. Why should a person make his confessions publicly? He can confess to God anyway he wants. But my guess is that it was a Catholic tradition.
---Mark_V. on 7/9/13


Nikki: I was specifically asking Cluny what the Orthodox church does if it feels someone has acted in a non-Christian way.

I am sorry, I see now that the way I wrote it was not clear

Sorry
---Peter9556 on 7/8/13


nikki, why do you go to confession? my bible tells me to pray to God thru and in the name of Jesus Christ. He is our link to God. a priest is not a link to God nor is he an entercessor. that is directly from God...not me.
---shira4368 on 7/8/13


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Does it refuse Communion? Does it expect that person to go to confession---Peter9556

The RCC excepts everyone to go to confession. Only you and I knows what you have done.
If someone takes Holy Communion and he isn't worthy he put condemnation on his himself. 1 Cor 11:27-32

But a public person like John Kerry was warned in 2004 when he was a president Candidate.
He was in the mid-west area and told not to go to communion unless he confesses publicly and denounce abortion.
All the Priest were forbidden to give him Holy Communion if he came up in line.
Kerry claimed was going to communion, so the media followed him that Sunday.
He went to a Protestant Church instead. Kerry knew the Bishops were serious.
---Nikki on 7/7/13


shira4368 on 7/6/13: Cluny has two point where he has a point, and you have one point which you have not proven against him.

Your point is that you have not shown that the Orthodox has something that is against the against Scripture

On his his side:

1) The people who decided who would be in the NT Scripture were what would become the Orthodox Church

2)There is also the quotation in Luke 9:49-50, of the people driving out demons in Jesus name, where Jesus told the disciples not to stop them - meaning that as long as Cluny's beliefs are acceptable to God, God is happy

P.S. I am not Orthodox
---Peter9556 on 7/7/13


cluny, if you're orthodoxy don't line up with the bible, then doctrinally you are wrong. You have an arrogant attitude you need to loose. You try to outwit everyone but we all see right thru you. you even make some laugh.
---shira4368 on 7/6/13


And all the doctrines of Orthodoxy are doctrinally perfect.
---Cluny on 6/26/13

Although I find that funny, laughable, and just plain untrue. I wish more people were like you, to believe that their denomination is the one and only church that teaches truth, making all others apostates.
---francis on 7/7/13


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Francis, don't just get into an argument with Cluny here.

Cluny, while I do not know enough about Orthodox doctrines to know, for the same reason I cannot dispute your comment that all doctrines are doctrinally prefect - since I don't know them, I cannot dispute them

So let's not dispute that.

But let's go back to my question.

If someone at a certain level (I do not know what level it must be in the Orthodox Church) deems someone to have done something or to have believed something outside of the accepted, what does the Orthodox Church do?

Does it refuse Communion?

Does it expect that person to go to confession (though most Orthodox people I know go to confession very rarely)
---Peter9556 on 7/7/13


And all the doctrines of Orthodoxy are doctrinally perfect.

You cannot prove otherwise.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/26/13
---Cluny on 6/26/13

HA HA AH HAHAHA

HEE HAA

man that is knee slapping funny

you are good
jokes just role of you fingers onto the screen, with little to no effort
---francis on 7/6/13


\\While the initial doctrine left with the 12 would be fine, even in Acts we find minor disputes (like circumcision) cropping up, and so we cannot say that EVERYTHING in Orthodoxy is perfect - you can certainly hope it is, but there is no actual PROOF it is.\\

The issue of circumcision was settled by Acts 15.

And all the doctrines of Orthodoxy are doctrinally perfect.

You cannot prove otherwise.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/26/13


Cluny: But doctrinally, the Orthodox church has NO faults, as she is predenominational and is the only Church founded by Christ.

Cluny, if the statement that ALL the Orthodox doctrines were founded by Christ, I would agree with it.

But even up to about 1000AD the church was one, including the Orthodox and the RCC in one church. So both can say they are predenominational

While the initial doctrine left with the 12 would be fine, even in Acts we find minor disputes (like circumcision) cropping up, and so we cannot say that EVERYTHING in Orthodoxy is perfect - you can certainly hope it is, but there is no actual PROOF it is.

But it is reasonable for you to hope so, and I have no objection

Blessings
---Peter9556 on 6/25/13


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I would have to go with the last one. The first choice has to do with the "great commission".
---Catherine on 6/25/13


\\Cluny, Is it true that in Orthodoxy you could be excommunicated for having a Jewish doctor?
---1st_cliff on 6/24/13\\

There might be a canon to that effect, but I'm unaware of it ever being enforced, especially in modern times.

I know an Orthodox man who has not one but two Jewish specialists, though his PCP is not Jewish.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/25/13


Cluny, Is it true that in Orthodoxy you could be excommunicated for having a Jewish doctor?
---1st_cliff on 6/24/13


\\Cluny: Anyone, of whatever denomination, will have to accept that their denomination does have its own faults.\\

Humans have faults. This is true, and individuals, even those with great responsibility, will make mistakes in judgement.

But doctrinally, the Orthodox church has NO faults, as she is predenominational and is the only Church founded by Christ.

However, I really doubt that Steveng knows whereof he speaks when he talks about the "secret workings" of Orthodoxy.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/24/13


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Cluny: Anyone, of whatever denomination, will have to accept that their denomination does have its own faults.

As far as I can tell, the first thing we have to do is seek to discover, repent of, and then seek to have repaired, our own personal sins.

The second could well be to do the same about our denomination (I am a member of the Church of England, and I know that it has made many mistakes).

Before that I was a member of an 'evangelical' church, but I was concerned at the lack of the Apostolic Succession there.

Blessings
---Peter9556 on 6/23/13


I will be curious to see just how Steveng pulls everything together and explain just how he got from children's mysteries and paternal collections of business cards to his deep and encyclopedic knowledge of the "secret workings of the Orthodox church."

Obviously, if he knows them, it's not a very well kept secret, is it?

Maybe this is explained in the missing parts?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/23/13


Gathering Data Part One
No matter what Im about to write you will have some sort of criticism, but here it goes.

Allow me to introduce myself first. Mind you, I am not boasting just giving some history about where I come from.

My dad had a produce company and a restaurant in Chicago. He was always telling us kids to know your customer and enemies so well that you know the ideal birthday gift they will cherish. I would find piles of business cards in his office having tidbits of info written on them about that particular person: physical appearance, demeanor, their likes and dislikes, family members, other friends, etc.
---Steveng on 6/23/13


Gathering Data Part Two

I was an avid reader: the Hardy Boys, my sister's Nancy Drew, entire childrens encyclopedias, newspapers, magazines and, of course, the bible twice before the age of 16 and three times thereafter. This helped develop a very inquisitive mind. I have many interests, most notably writing, graphic design and cartooning. I'm presently a technical writer/graphic artist for an avionics company creating and updating over 400 repair manuals, operating manuals, pilots handbooks as well as other documents.

In my spare time I'm an investigative journalist and teacher/tutor. I've worked in many fields including music, construction, auto mechanic, and have started and sold four businesses - a fifth one coming.
---Steveng on 6/23/13


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Gathering Data Part Four

I would write three or four letters to develop a relationship by writing about something we have in common.

As an investigative journalist, I found I was able to access a lot more sources of information besides books, newspapers, magazines, college theses, bibliographies and newsletters: for instance, legal notices, police reports, tax records, Forms 1023/1024 (the application for exempt status) and databases. Every person and every company has a paper trail. Whatever I cant get easily, I file a Freedom Of Information Act form.
---Steveng on 6/23/13


Gathering Data Part Six

Remember, most people have a motivation to do something: the person who wants to correct injustices, the disgruntled employee, a person who cant get anyones attention, a person who gets no respect, a person who enjoys secretly brokering information to cause trouble, a high level member of the church who give the reporter information in hopes the reporter will not write critical stories about the church.

The only motivation a few people on these blogs have is to discredit those who do not conform to their beliefs.

My words are nothing, but my invitation still stands: If you or someone you know is visiting or lives in the Pasadena/LA area is gladly welcomed to spend a day with me.
---Steveng on 6/23/13


\\ If you're going to criticize the Orthodox Church, criticize her as she is: on what you actually KNOW she actually says, does, and teaches. \\
---Cluny on 6/22/13

Also, one should be careful about accusing motives unless someone or their church has admitted to why something is done or said.

Statements like:
All they want to do is....
They are trying to...

really don't accurately portray any church or clergy
---James_L on 6/22/13


A hint to steveng and others:

If you're going to criticize the Orthodox Church, criticize her as she is: on what you actually KNOW she actually says, does, and teaches.

Do NOT criticize her on the basis of what you think Roman Catholicism is.

Every one of you so far criticizes a false idea about Roman Catholicism and calls it "Orthodoxy."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/22/13


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\\If Jesus were on these blogs you would tell him the same thing, what he would say would not conform to your doctrines. \\

Jesus approves of the doctrines of the Orthodox Church, because they all come from Him.

Therefore, what Jesus would say WOULD conform to my Orthodox doctrines.

But He would DISAPPROVE of yours, steveng.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/22/13


Steveng, you are the one saying provocative words.
How can you make a statement and refuse to back it up?
Cluny is saying he dares you because he knows you can't back up your words.
He is saying, really: 'put up or shut up'
'State your case'
You have the floor. Speak.

Many people say all kinds of lies on the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

If you dare say a blazing statement, please give the evidence.
Jesus would tell you it isn't nice to spread rumors. Gossips.
---Nikki on 6/22/13


In other words, steveng, you have NO idea what you're talking about when you refer to the "secret workings of the Orthodox church," and cannot prove your allegation.

I thought as much.

You were merely making wild and slanderous accusations based on no facts that you actually knew, but rather your own ignorance and bigotry, and inability to tell the difference between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/22/13


Cluny, "I dare you?"

You have got to be kidding. You're daring me? What kind of provocation is that for an orthodox member? What king of stuff do they teach you in your church? The ways of man? If Jesus were on these blogs you would tell him the same thing, what he would say would not conform to your doctrines.

---Steveng on 6/21/13


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\\If you and cluny knew the secrets workings of the catholic and orthodox churches you, too, will leave\\

And what do you actually know about the "secret workings" of the Orthodox church, Steveng?

Give three SPECIFIC things.

I dare you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/21/13


I did not understand and began asking questions. I was very persistant in getting answers. I asked the other students, the teachers, the priests, anyone I can to find an answer. After a couple of months, the church and school finally said they had enough of me.
---Steveng on 6/20/13

I personally love your story. It is a confirming of scripture.
Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and ye shall find, knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

As easy as it is, amazing to me now are the self titled preachers today that rarely apply Matt 7. Not all....but, 99 out of 100. And why they yield no Gospel / truth. They deliver no scriptural witnesses, even though they abound. Except against themselves.
---Trav on 6/21/13


Ruben: "BTW-The Catholic Church is the 'only' one who has not change its stance on faith or morals for 2,000 years!"

If you and cluny knew the secrets workings of the catholic and orthodox churches you, too, will leave. After my mom kicked my out of the house at sixteen, I did do some research on the catholic, the orthodox and the other denominationsal churches. After becoming an investigative reporter in the mid 1980s, I became aware of and had greater access to resources a regluar person could never get to continue my investiations of all types of churches.
---Steveng on 6/20/13


Seems like you were a tiny Geraldo Rivera...

1 Corinthians 5:11_13 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, with such an one no not to eat.
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

You probably called them idolaters and they deemed you a railer. And of course it was you that was shunned. Big deal right? It has made you a legend in your own mind judging by your telling.
---Nana on 6/20/13


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Mark_V.: "Steven, you take offense very quickly."

Do you know me? Of course not. I offered anyone on these blogs, including you, to visit the Pasadena California area and meet my friends, aquaintances, strangers, neighbors, business owners, and myself in person. They will tell you that I'm the most content person they have ever met. Many times in certain situations they ask if I ever get mad.
---Steveng on 6/20/13


Nana: "At nine, where did you get the knowledge..?"

I read the bible, of couse.

Even at nine I had eyes to see and read, ears to hear. My family and I belonged to the catholic church. I was even an altar boy. The whole nighborhood belong to that catholic church.

I read the bible and I notice things around me and I made the connection - or in this case the disconnection - between what the bible says and what the people were doing. I did not understand and began asking questions. I was very persistant in getting answers. I asked the other students, the teachers, the priests, anyone I can to find an answer. After a couple of months, the church and school finally said they had enough of me.
---Steveng on 6/20/13



Jed,

How can that be the best thing to happen when:

It is the Church Jesus said he will built.(MT16:18-19)

It is the Church and her councils that gave us the books of the bible.

It her teaching on Christ's divinity, the trinity, the natures of Christ and the hypostatic union.

And it was Jesus who told the first Catholics :

"He who listen to you, listen to me, He who rejects you, He reject me and He who send me" (LK 10:16)
---Ruben on 6/20/13


Because none of those things you just said about the Catholic Church is actually true. The disciples were NOT Catholics.
---Jed on 6/20/13


Excommunication from the Catholic Church is probably one of the best things that could possibly happen to someone seeking Christ.
---Jed on 6/19/13

Jed,

How can that be the best thing to happen when:

It is the Church Jesus said he will built.(MT16:18-19)

It is the Church and her councils that gave us the books of the bible.

It her teaching on Christ's divinity, the trinity, the natures of Christ and the hypostatic union.

And it was Jesus who told the first Catholics :

"He who listen to you, listen to me, He who rejects you, He reject me and He who send me" (LK 10:16)

BTW-The Catholic Church is the 'only' one who has not change its stance on faith or morals for 2,000 years!
---Ruben on 6/20/13


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\\Then perhaps, they can get into a Christian church where someone can share with them the gospel of Jesus Christ and they can get saved.
---Jed on 6/19/13\\

I agree. Becoming Orthodox is the way to salvation.

It's the only church where the true worship is offered as is pleasing to the Lord and the pure Word of God is preached without fear or favor.

On the other hand, all Protestants and Evangelicals are crypto-papists. The merely substitute their infallible selves for an infallible pope.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/20/13


At nine, where did you get the knowledge of whatsoever discrepancy between the church's doctrine and the Bible?
What forum did you use to voice said discrepancies? The middle of 'mass'? In the streets? In front of the church
picket line style?
---Nana on 6/20/13


Excommunication from the Catholic Church is probably one of the best things that could possibly happen to someone seeking Christ. Then perhaps, they can get into a Christian church where someone can share with them the gospel of Jesus Christ and they can get saved.
---Jed on 6/19/13


Steven, you take offense very quickly. I was not trying to insult you. I never said you were lying. That incident could have happen to you and your family. What I question was why the Church would give you and family instructions. When I read what you said, and it did not make sense to me why the church would give orders to those they are excommunicating. They will not belong to the Church anymore, so why would they follow the instructions of the Church? The instructions go to the Church. Excommunicators are free from the church to do what they want. That was all, nothing more.
---Mark_V. on 6/20/13


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Mark, you assume much and twist people's observations and experiences to put that person in a bad light. Why do you falsely accuse me?

Mark: "If someone is excommunicated, why should he follow the orders of the church if he doesn't belong to it anymore?"

I was nine years old at the time, I didn't know better. It's one of those experiences one never forgets.

Mark: "I believe what you should have said is,.."

And you were there when it happened? I was and so was my father, mother, older sister, uncle and the church/school leaders. I'm sure that I was told what not to do and the members of the church was told what not to do. That is probably why my family was shunned by the neighbors, eh?
---Steveng on 6/19/13


Steven, you are not thinking clearly here. You have it backwards when you say,
" When one is told never to communicate or contact anyone within the church or the school, you are excommunicated"
If someone is excommunicated, why should he follow the orders of the church if he doesn't belong to it anymore? I believe what you should have said is, that the church is told not to communicate with the one who was kick-out from the church, not the other way around.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/13


When one is excommunicated it doesn't only mean that one is cut off from communion. When one is told never to communicate or contact anyone within the church or the school, you are excommunicated. When one is shunned by the neighbors or their backs are turned toward you, you are excommunicated. When your mother warned you not to contact anyone within the family ever again, you are excommunicated. In other words, when all communication is severed, you are excommunicated.
---Steveng on 6/18/13


I am not sure how the Orthodox church defines it, but I was thinking of it more in the case of the Roman Catholic Church - which seems to be the one who takes excommunication as a permanent thing---Peter9556 on 6/18/13

It is only permanent if the person REFUSES to repent.
But, Jesus is merciful.
Nothing is permanent.

I answered it on the 17th:
Holy Communion is the Highest communion one can have with Jesus.
So, when one separates oneself for Jesus due to refusing to repent of moral sin they have have excommunicated themselves from Jesus.
Not in communion with Jesus.
---Nikki on 6/17/13
---Nikki on 6/18/13


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Nikki:You would be the person here best able to answer this question, I guess - the question I posted a couple of days ago

I am not sure how the Orthodox church defines it, but I was thinking of it more in the case of the Roman Catholic Church - which seems to be the one who takes excommunication as a permanent thing
---Peter9556 on 6/18/13


I was excommunicated from the catholic church at the age of nine---Steveng

No Child can be excommunicated! YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

You have to have a bull statement of an excommunication.
You can see a true excommunication on the Vatican website of King Henry VIII.
Your excommunication would be similar. Which you do not have one because they are only given to people of the highest responsibility of other peoples. A ruler or such. Which you are not.

You can only excommunicate yourself because only you and God knows your sin.
Catholic Church NEVER excommunicated you.
You might have been excommunicated from your neighborhood, but not from a Catholic Church. The RCC doesn't excommunicate families in whole.
---Nikki on 6/18/13


I was excommunicated from the catholic church at the age of nine and, in turn, our family was excommunicated from our italian nighborhood in Chicago and was forced to move out of the neighborhood because the neighbors shunned us. My mom held a grudge for seven years before she finally kicked me out of the house at sixteen. She even held a grudge against me for a couple of years thereafter according to my sister. The reason? Asking too many questions about the discrepancy between what the bible says and what the catholic church taught.

Oh, and by the way, I stopped by my mom's house in Florida while hitchhicking across country in the late 1970s and she appologized for everything she did to me while living in Chicago.
---Steveng on 6/17/13


In the scripture, we have the example of how Paul ordered the Corinthians to put away that evil person who had his father's wife.

But this was a measure meant to bring the man to repentance.

1 Corinthians chapter five, 2 Corinthians 2:1-11.

But this was not done by high-up out-of-touch leaders. The Corinthians knew Paul and his example personally. So, they had his example and message so they could know what is right, and not just know what is wrong.
---willie_c on 6/17/13


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Holy Communion is the Highest communion one can have with Jesus.
So, when one separates oneself for Jesus due to refusing to repent of moral sin they have have excommunicated themselves from Jesus.

Not in communion with Jesus.
---Nikki on 6/17/13


I was excommunicated for resigning from a (so called) Christian organization and labeled an apostate!
Any one who changes denomination is "apostate"!
---1st_cliff on 6/16/13


In the Orthodox Church, it has several meanings:

1. For serious sins (usually, but not limited to, sexual ones), a person is suspended from receiving Communion for a period.

2. For others, such as apostasy from Christianity or open and barefaced heresy as has been previously defined, it means deprivation of Communion, may not be a sponsor at a Baptism or Wedding, and denied a Church funeral, unless he repents. If a clergyman, he is deposed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/16/13


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