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Saved But Out Of Control

What do you all think of a someone who claims to be Christian and in love with Jesus, but also believes that cursing, smoking weed, getting drunk and fornication are "acceptable sins" as long as they love God? Is that enough to get into Heaven?

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 ---Isis on 6/16/13
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Nikki, your mind appears to be no more than a gilded covered sarcophagus filled with a cursed vain imagination, hatred and non-biblical falsehoods. You ramble on like a weed whacker running on cheap stale gas cutting not only the crab grass but also the beautiful flowers God has planted to declare His glory.
There is a scientific medical/psychological classification for people like you Youre Nutts!---Elder on 7/2/13

Wow, I guess I hit a nerve.

Another advice,
NEVER SHOW YOUR CARD!
---Nikki on 7/2/13


You are so full of the fighting spirit, you don't even pay attention to what you are reading.

Wow Nikki, you were not smiling when you were accusing me of attacking you.---shira4368 on 7/2/13

Grandma, I was smiling during your whole post.-Nikki on 7/1/13

Shira, I wasn't speaking to you. Stop fighting!


Elder, I must have I hit a big nerve.

Another advice from a simple minded person:

Don't show your hand.
You have so much venom inside of you. You are leaking.
You look like you are coming apart.

KEEP IT TOGETHER, MAN!
---Nikki on 7/2/13


Wow Nikki, you were not smiling when you were accusing me of attacking you. You need to tell the truth. People who can't debate should not be on Christian and neither those who are thin skinned. Don't tell bloggers here you were smiling. I felt the attack all the way to my home. It does not take anyone of us to very long to spot those who can't accept just plain ol common sense.
---shira4368 on 7/2/13


Nikki, thank you for your advice. You have again proved your simplicy.
Reading the Bible and believing it are two diffferent things. I suggest that you begin to believe it.
Read, or have someone read to you, John 6:47-58, John 10:27-28, John 17:1-26, the Book of 1st John. I Jn 5:10-13, and other places through out Scripture teaches the Saved have eternal life Now and may know it.
If you have to wait until you get to heaven to find out if you have eternal live (are Saved) then you probably don't/are not!
---Elder on 7/2/13


Nikki, your mind appears to be no more than a gilded covered sarcophagus filled with a cursed vain imagination, hatred and non-biblical falsehoods. You ramble on like a weed whacker running on cheap stale gas cutting not only the crab grass but also the beautiful flowers God has planted to declare His glory.
There is a scientific medical/psychological classification for people like you Youre Nutts!
---Elder on 7/2/13




Grandma you are dealing with a simple minded person.---Elder

A simple advice from a simple minded person.

Read the Bible before bed time.
Go to bed a couple hours earlier.
Sleep in longer if you have to do so.
Get out of bed on the RIGHT side.
Drink some coffee and eat some breakfast.
Spend some time with Jesus.

You might not be so irritable.
Peace!
---Nikki on 7/1/13


Grandma, I was smiling during your whole post.
How you claim you are SAVED, then claiming you were not attacking and BOOM! YOU GO ON THE ATTACK!
Truly, I wasn't upset, but it gave me a good laugh.
Read the post about Teachers picking favorites.

Shira told me to 'drop it' first. She was wrong. You know she was.
I said Jewish Scholars made the claim, but you couldn't fuss at them could you?

Francis proves how the JEWISH SCHOLARS came to that conclusion.
Guess what? The same words used as the blog by Pkay: issue of blood in the BIBLE.

I answered you 3 TIMES. Okay 4TH TIME:
You don't know you are Saved until you are in Heaven.
Read A-Servant's post. Twice if you can.
He or she states it PERFECTLY!
---Nikki on 7/1/13


Grandma, you said to Nikki, "Nikki, I gave you a Bible verse, and asked you to explain how you could say my salvation was future, when the verse clearly stated past tense. It wasn't an attack. It was a request for clarification."
Nikki posted, "I wasn't even talking to you. YOU JUMPED IN. If you think that isn't an attack, you are one harsh lady."
Nikki
Grandma you are dealing with a simple minded person. Nikki seems to think this is a closed forum not realizing anyone can answer any posting anytime. She does this when caught in error.
---Elder on 7/1/13


Nikki: As for your verse, my soul is saved NOW. Not in heaven. Please address my question.

You were misunderstanding Shira, and you did become argumentative and out of control. That's not an attack. It's a statement about your behavior. I can attack you, but won't. I know how to do that, but choose not to.

I believe you are hypersensitive, and overly defensive. Your attitude during a discussion is just like the inner city middle school students I taught, when I'd address their behavior.

Grow up. (That's an attack.)
---Grandma on 7/1/13


Please keep in mind that I am judging no one.

If you are truly saved, then no sin will be acceptable. Every wrong will shatter your heart and make you cry because you know you are disappointing your God and Savior. There will be a burning desire inside of you to remember who God created you to be and to strive to paint that picture every day, to be his perfect and unique masterpiece. If you are really saved, then you can only excuse what you do in your sin for so long, before your confidence in yourself is rent and torn as you fall before the throne of God and realize that He is the Reformer and not man. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for fornication and such sins as you speak of, how can this be acceptable before a pure and holy God?
---A_servant on 7/1/13




he stands for what is right. you did lash out at him and Pharisee.---shira4368

I have never addressed Pharisee. You confused me with another.
James also defended you. Note the difference:

Nikki, in this case that last comment does not seem to be relevant to the discussion, as it does not seem to be a 'cyclic bleeding' matter, but a permanent problem.
In her case it was not a cycle, it was permanent bleeding - but it would still make her unclean---James 6/25/13

Nikki you had better hope, in your lifetime, you gain the honor that Shira has in serving the Lord...Before you get so heady and high-minded to rebuke someone at least know what you are talking about.---Elder 6/26/13

One Christ like, the other not!
---Nikki on 7/1/13


It wasn't an attack.--Grandma

I gave Bible verse as well:
Grandma, you are Saved when in Heaven.
1Peter 1:9 as you attain the GOAL of your faith, the SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.---Nikki 6/27/13

But the attack I was speaking about was in the other blog that Francis also gave passages proving you all wrong.

Nikki: It's fascinating to see how defensive, argumentative, and totally out of control you have become over what I see as a misunderstanding. Instead of respecting that some people are uncomfortable discussing such things on a public blog, you became arrogant and argumentative.---Grandma on 6/28/13

I wasn't even talking to you. YOU JUMPED IN.
If you think that isn't an attack, you are one harsh lady.
---Nikki on 7/1/13


Nikki, I gave you a Bible verse, and asked you to explain how you could say my salvation was future, when the verse clearly stated past tense. It wasn't an attack. It was a request for clarification.
---Grandma on 7/1/13


nikki, what happened had nothing really to do with standing our ground. that can be in the same class as stubborn. I am from the old school and think some things are off limits in discussing on a public forum. elder knows me and he knows what I am and my demeaner and personality. that is why he took up for me. he didn't take up for me because we are friends but if he disagreed with me he would not have taken up for me. he stands for what is right. you did lash out at him and Pharisee.
---shira4368 on 7/1/13


Shira, if you were serious, you would listen to the Truth. you say,
"Richard, what you fail to see is God will save anyone who ask. bro elder and Pharisee gave an indepth answer that would just throw your view out the window. you are taking scriptures out of context."

The Bible tells us that people who are lost,
"There is none righteous, no, not one,
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks after God"
(Rom. 3:10,11).
If no one seeks after God, how can they call on the name of the Lord? Not possible.
God has to make them able to seek after God. Only the righteous call on the name of the Lord. Unbelievers are not righteous, they are children of wrath.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/13


Shira4368, I believe you. I was agreeing with you earlier
Yes, Shira is right...---Nikki on 6/26/13

If you can see it from my point. Things were said I didn't say.
Then Elder and Grandma started attacking me when I didn't even say what was stated I said.

As you said, I agreed. We should be allowed to stand our ground.
As I did in the other blog. You didn't like it and told me so. I responded to your response. Maybe I shouldn't have returned anger with anger, but I was shock with your response.

Francis sided with me by using the Bible and not attacking you, Grandma or Elder.
Grandma and Elder could have done the same as James when he sided with you.
Stand our ground is everyone's right. Not a select few.
---Nikki on 6/30/13


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Richard, we have beat this horse to death. God chose the WHOLE WORLD. I am not yelling but emphasizing the importance of the topic.
---shira4368 on 6/30/13


Richard, why did Jesus die on a cross for who??? if you aren't born again you are one of the tares. they are in every church. tares are those who are religious but not saved. they are dead weight because satan puts tares in every church. there is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end thereof is death.
---shira4368 on 6/30/13


Shira - Any one that ask ,

Then why are there tares in the Churches, What did they do that was wrong Didn't make there confession of faith right ? Why are they going to be burned

Therefore they are not under the Promise - Born again - New Creature in Christ , And their sins are being taken into account ,

Philipians 1:6 Being Confident of this very thing, that he who started a good work in you will ,complete it until the day of Jesus Christ,

( This is Not being done with the tares )

Out Of Context ?

1 Corinthians 2:13 - These thing we also speak, not in word man wisdom teaches, but which the holy Spirit Teaches, Comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual Things,

---RICHARDC on 6/30/13


Richard, what you fail to see is God will save anyone who ask. bro elder and Pharisee gave an indepth answer that would just throw your view out the window. you are taking scriptures out of context.
---shira4368 on 6/30/13


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Richard, great answers you have been giving in many blogs. Your answers are right on and very kindly, which is even better.
The thief could only ask for forgiveness because he recognized Jesus as the Savior, and had faith that Jesus would remember him when He got to heaven. Faith is a gift of God. Thanks again and peace brother.

Grandma, your correct, we are already saved by the grace of God. And important part of this salvation now while still in the flesh, is that we now have access to God. For God does not hear unbelieving sinners, for they need a Mediator. Some Bible students call it, "There but not there yet" We are there in Spirit with God, but not there yet because of the flesh that has to die. peace brother
---Mark_V. on 6/30/13


Shira - Back to were we started , You said It's Man to Choose - I wrote down verses that God say's, He is the One that chooses, Now the two thieves on the crosses - God by grace is saving that man, and not the other, he's changing that man's heart, so the the man ask for forgiveness,

Ephesians 2:5 - For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God.
---RICHARDC on 6/29/13


Richard, I know all about one taken and one left but the man hanging beside Jesus ask for forgiveness and he got it. I believe every single thing the bible says. I think every single word is true and inspired.
---shira4368 on 6/29/13


Matthew 5:43-48
But I say to you love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have?
Do not the tax collectors do the same?
And if you greet your brothers only , what is unusual about that?
Do not the pagans do the same?
So be perfect just as your heavenly Father if perfect.

Blessings to you Shira, Elder and Grandma.
Peace,
God bless!
---Nikki on 6/29/13


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wow, this blog has turned from a mole hill to a mountain. it has gotten too big for me. guess anyone who believes the bible is a target. I have never ask anyone to "give up". I am not a confrontational person. I always go the other way but at times we must stand our ground. nikki, I am not angry with you and I have never meant to hurt you.
---shira4368 on 6/29/13


Nikki, you just continue to reveal that you plain just don't understand. (Going to 2nd grader now)
Shirl said it doesn't matter meaning whether they were theives or adulters they were lost sinners.
I think you like to pretend that you misunderstand so you can hollar and whine.
You have attacked a mature and aged Saint of the Lord. That doesn't continue on without a cost. God will not wink at your sin either!
What is so sad is that if you had a need she could help with she would do without to make sure you didn't.
Enjoy yourself for now. Your time playing the "victim" is limited
---Elder on 6/28/13


Shira - One ask for forgiveness - That's the thing, Was it the man asking or God changing the man into a New creature ? One in the field one will be taken the other will be left, Right ?

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness we have done, but by -- According to his mercy he Saved us,- Though washing of the Regeneration and renewing of the Holy spirit.

Bible was written by scholars ,

2 Timothy 3:16 - ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God is profitable for doctrine,for Reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
---RICHARDC on 6/28/13


nikki, it doesn't matter if they were thieves or not. both were unsaved and one ask forgiveness before he died. that is what really matters here. that is what Jesus is all about. the bible was written by scholars.---shira4368 on 6/28/13

Doesn't matter? I guess when you are caught being wrong it doesn't matter.
Okay. Fine, it doesn't matter.

Shira, I truly think you are just bored and just want to argue.

I agree with you!!!
How many times do I have to tell you?
I think you just want me to disagree with you, so you can continue to argue with me.

We are Saved by Grace.

I am not going continue this with you.
You might have the energy to argue and fight, I don't.

You win.
Happy?
---Nikki on 6/28/13


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---RICHARDC on 6/28/13
And you can to what conclusion?

My conclusion is that my will must be aligned with God's will
---francis on 6/28/13


nikki, it doesn't matter if they were thieves or not. both were unsaved and one ask forgiveness before he died. that is what really matters here. that is what Jesus is all about. the bible was written by scholars.
---shira4368 on 6/28/13


Francis -- -----> Been thinking about that one Too, but the other way around, with Free will ---- Time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine , 1 Timothy 1:10

Ephesians 1:4 - Having Predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure -------> of his will
---RICHARDC on 6/28/13


nikki, you continue to open a can of worms. hitler thought he knew everything just like you do. I know what it takes to get to heaven. it is by grace we are saved. you accuse me of saying things I never said. I make sure what I say is biblical before I post here. you would do well to do the same thing.
---shira4368 on 6/28/13


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Those who claim to be presestined to be saved, tell me how do ou know that you are predestined to be saved, and not one of those who are predestined in the latter times to depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
---francis on 6/28/13


Nikki on 6/28/13 - The only Ones who know who are saved who are in heaven ?

Romans 8:16 - The spirit himself bear witness with our spirit, that we are Children of God,
---RICHARDC on 6/28/13


Nikki: You did not address the discrepancy I pointed out to you. Ephesians 2:8-9 says "HAVE BEEN SAVED." Paul was stating that the Christians in Ephesus were already saved. They were still alive, here on earth. The Bible states that believers are saved, while still living. It also states that if we are saved, we are new creatures in Christ.

I'm sorry you don't have the assurance of knowing you are saved. I do.

Now, please address what I pointed out in that passage, that Paul stated the believers in Ephesus "HAVE BEEN SAVED." Not will be, or might be, but HAVE BEEN.
---Grandma on 6/28/13


How do you reconcile that verse with what you said about my salvation? ---Grandma on 6/27/13

That's my point! I am not disagreeing with the that verse. You are claiming something I never stated.

Mercy means God Saves us, not ourselves.
No one claims works for Salvation except you Protestants who lie and state we Catholics believe that. We don't! That's your myth.


The same goes to you Shira,
I never said we earn salvation. I said Mercy is how we gain Salvation.

You both keep leaving out the word Mercy.

The only ones we know who are Saved who are in Heaven.

Just because you claim you are doesn't mean God agrees with you.
Hitler thought he was saved.
Do you think he was?
---Nikki on 6/28/13


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Shira ----- Died For the whole World - Yes it say's that, The World, but no were does it say ,that I Know of, For the Whole Human Race ! If God wanted to save everybody God could, Because he is God!
Everybody would be a New Creature in Christ, Born Again, Not under the Law, They could not sin and They would do God's will because they are born of God They have been conform to his image - And be under God Promise ,

Ephesians 2:8 - For by Grace you are saved Though Faith ---- And Not of yourselves, it is a gift of God.
---RICHARDC on 6/28/13


Richard, God chose everyone. He died for the whole world. He died for every human. everyone will not accept Christ.
---shira4368 on 6/28/13


Shira - on 6/27/13 -- One will choose Christ the other not ,

John 15:16 - You did not choose me, but I chose you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the father in my name, he may give it you,

Ephesian 1:4 - Just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

As Long as They Love God ----------------->

John 14:15 - If you love me, keep my commandments,

1 John 2:4 - He who saith, I know him, and keepeth not the Commandments, is a Liar and the Truth is Not in him,
---RICHARDC on 6/27/13


Nikki: Reread the passage from Ephesians.
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Note the words, "HAVE BEEN SAVED." Past tense. The Ephesians Paul was writing to HAD BEEN SAVED, before he wrote that letter. Just as I have been saved, for 38 years. It's already happened. According to Scripture, my name is written in heaven. I'm sealed for eternity. It's a done deal.

Don't you even presume to tell me about my Spiritual condition, because you are wrong when you tell me when I am saved.

How do you reconcile that verse with what you said about my salvation?
---Grandma on 6/27/13


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nikki, so you believe you have to be in heaven to be saved? you are very confused. no one earns salvation. it is a gift of God. I am saved and I am not in heaven yet. I will be there when I die. I hope you can say the same thing. we work for Christ because we are saved.
---shira4368 on 6/27/13


Grandma, you are Saved when in Heaven.
1Peter 1:9 as you attain the GOAL of your faith, the SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.

But you didn't argue about the word 'will' but the word 'earn and gain'.
You thought I was claiming to earn salvation.

You over looked the word 'mercy' in front of the word earn.

Nikki: We don't gain salvation, or earn it. It is a gift of God.---Grandma 6/27/13

But I said:

He got Salvation without earning it.
Mercy as you and I will gain Salvation.---Nikki on 6/26/13

It's an accident, I have done it many times myself.

But I didn't cause the confusion. You were implying that I believed in earning or gaining salvation because you misread my word, not the use of the my words.
---Nikki on 6/27/13


Nikki: In your original us of the word, gain, you also used, will. Future tense. Exact phrase: "will gain" That is why I corrected you.

I am saved. My salvation is not something that will happen. It has happened. I am a new creature in Christ, because of the gift I received. Scripture has taught me that I am sealed, and Romans 8:38-39 teaches me that nothing can separate me from God's love.

If you had not used the future tense with Shira, there would have been no confusion on my part.
---GranTdma on 6/27/13


Grandma read my post again. I said:
Mercy as you and I will gain Salvation.---Nikki on 6/26/13

Mercy mean not getting what you do deserve / withheld punishment
So, it is through mercy you and I gain Salvation. Why are you giving me a lesson? We agree.

Shira, They were NOT THIEVES.
but REVOLUTIONARIES
Mark 15:27. Matt 23:38 and 44.
Luke 23:33 calls them criminals because being revolutionaries is a crime in Rome.
They were rebelling against Rome. The punishment for rebelling is crucifixion.

They didn't steal anything.
Christian Historians calls him the good thief because he stole heaven when Jesus told him today he would be with Him in paradise.

You are confusing history with the Bible.
---Nikki on 6/27/13


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Nikki: We don't gain salvation, or earn it. It is a gift of God. Once we receive His gracious gift, He doesn't take it back.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
---Grandma on 6/27/13


nikki, there are two types of people..saved and unsaved. both the thieves on the cross were not saved but one ask forgiveness and the other didn't. one went to paradise and one went to hell. it is the same today. one will choose Christ and another will not.
---shira4368 on 6/27/13


Well, the thief made it in and he had been out of control, that's why he was being judged hanging on a cross---chonna on 6/20/13

the thief on the cross was not saved. He ask forgiveness while he was hanging on the cross beside Jesus Christ.---shira4368 on 6/24/13

Yes, Shira is right. That's why we call him the good thief. He stole heaven.

He wasn't on the cross because he was a thief, but a revolutionary Mark 15:27.

We call him a thief today because he asked for repentance just in time before his death.
He got Salvation without earning it.
Mercy as you and I will gain Salvation.
---Nikki on 6/26/13


Catherine, so you're saying believers should be silent on sin then, right? We shouldn't discourage blatant ungodly living because we all sin sometimes?
---Jed on 6/25/13


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Conviction: Lets not be hypocritical. Jesus came because He knew that we could never reach His level of righteousness. When God lives inside of an individual, when this individual sin's God will let him or she know. We all do something which God does not approve of. Some of what you mentioned, however, are listed in God's laws. Smoking isn't and drunk isn't, however, there are Scriptures against drunkenness. I don't believe there is one on the smoking of weed. Still, leave it to God.
---Catherine on 6/25/13


the thief on the cross was not saved. He ask forgiveness while he was hanging on the cross beside Jesus Christ. there is a song called "three men on the mountain, upon Calvary. the man in the middle was Jesus, He died for you and me. I will find the words and finish this song.
---shira4368 on 6/24/13


Well, the thief made it in and he had been out of control, that's why he was being judged hanging on a cross, but God looked at his heart and judged. God judged him, right at the point of his death, and had mercy. God is bigger than our ways of thinking.
---chonna on 6/20/13


Francis
I prefer the term, "evaluate" rather than "judge".
---wivv on 6/19/13

Ok
---francis on 6/20/13


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On the other hand, when someone tries to excuse an action that God has already deemed a sin, then they are the ones playing the judge by trying to re-judge what God has already judged. A person who is repeating God's Word is not making themselves the judge, but is accepting God as the judge.--Jed on 6/19/13

Nicely said!
---Nikki on 6/20/13


I doubt he's a believer, anyone can call themselves a "Christian", but that doesnt make it so. The bible says woe to them that call evil good, and good evil (Isa. 5:20). You will know them by their fruits (Matt. 7). I agree with Jed that judging ones words and actions is scriptural. Where we get into trouble is when we judge ones motives or intentions, but thats not what youre doing. Whats troubling is hes trying to excuse his behavior, but hes only fooling himself. Gal. 5:19-21 speaks to his behavior and Gal. 5:22-23 speaks to the believer. I also am curious what your mother thinks of all this. Stay strong for the Lord.
---jason9835 on 6/20/13


People who go around saying "quit judging" don't actually know what the term "judge" means. You see, to judge means to determine right or wrong. When we admonish someone for doing something that God has judged to be sin, we are just repeating what God said rather than judging right and wrong for ourselves, which is actually the opposite of judging. On the other hand, when someone tries to excuse an action that God has already deemed a sin, then they are the ones playing the judge by trying to re-judge what God has already judged. A person who is repeating God's Word is not making themselves the judge, but is accepting God as the judge.
---Jed on 6/19/13


Francis
I prefer the term, "evaluate" rather than "judge". Judge is too final and does not allow for feedback, whereas evaluate allows for feedback and the person being evaluated may appreciate being corrected. For example: maybe the person is doing something that is either done out of spiritual ignorance, or maybe you only see one side of the situation and make your conclusion on what you think without knowing the facts. Many times I've seen Christians judge because they think they are more spiritual than others and are not concerned about the person they are judging.

Matthew 7:4 (ASV) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye, and lo, the beam is in thine own eye?
---wivv on 6/19/13


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While it would not be suitable to judge,
---wivv on 6/19/13
Who said it is not suitable to judge in a cse of someone who clams to be a christain behavior?

1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

1 Corinthians 5:12 do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
---francis on 6/19/13


While it would not be suitable to judge, it does cause me to ask this question, is this person really a Christian? I've never heard the term, "acceptable sins" before. Why don't you ask this person to show you, "chapter and verse" as to where this might be found in the Bible? It reads to me like this person is using God as a "fire escape" and in denial.
---wivv on 6/19/13


Isis, do you live with your mother? If you don't, do you have children? If so, do you take them to visit your mother when this boyfriend is around? I know I would never let my children be around a drunk, or high person.

I'm still curious as to why you posted this question about the boyfriend, and not about your concern for your mother. Her sin of fornication is evidence of the quality of her Spiritual life also. Plus, there is always heartache for anyone in a close relationship with a drunk addict.
---Grandma on 6/18/13


Isis, salvation belongs to the Lord. Only He knows who is saved and who is not. And who is in a habitual sin and who is not. We as believers should be able to judge by the fruits so that we know who is causing problems within the Church. God Judges those outside the Church. In the case of your mom's and her friend, you cannot change what they do, say, or feel.
And you don't know if God wants them to go down the gutter in order to bring them to a greater faith. In fact you don't know what God is doing really. Don't get mad with them, and don't judge them, God does the judging. Be the child of God that you are. Maybe through your example they both will change. No ones knows the heart or the future but God.
---Mark_V. on 6/19/13


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Isis...Thanks for clarifying this situation. Perhaps it bothers you because this man is involved with your mother and takes her away from you. Does it bother you so much if it is other people? By the way, do you sleep at that house full of fornication when you visit?
---KarenD on 6/18/13


"You say you have seen someone's sins, but have you seen his repentance?"

Amen, Cluny
---Jasheradan on 6/18/13


\\God said that we are recognized by our fruits, so to me this seems wrong. \\

Let's talk about your own fruits and your own sins, Isis.

An ancient Christian once said, "You say you have seen someone's sins, but have you seen his repentance?"

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/18/13


Why aren't you discussing this with your mother? If she is a Christian, why is SHE fornicating with this man? Why is she sleeping with an alcoholic/addict?
---Grandma on 6/17/13


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Isis, I look at it like this. Our personal relationship with Christ is a marriage. Its none of MY business what someone else does in their marriage. That is between them and their spouse.

The only time we start sticking our nose where it doesnt belong is typically when we begin to feel like our own crap doesnt stink. Self-righteous thinking leads to a judgmental attitude.

(Romans 14:4)
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.

(Romans 14:22)
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God.

I think thats God way of saying "Mind ya own business!"
---Jasheradan on 6/17/13


I like Clunys first answer! Hit the nail on the head!

There were things that I did as a believer for many years that I no longer do. There was always a valuable lesson for me behind the sin and God allowed me to experience it for myself. Its a renewing of our minds by the Holy Ghost. Strongholds often take time to break down because their roots run deep in our hearts. The sin is usually connected to a deep hurt or insecurity and when THAT is healed, the desire for the sin fades away.

Its Gods salvation and HIS plan to conform us to the image of Christ. When you are judging a child of God, how do you know you aren't being critical of Gods plan for that man?
---Jasheradan on 6/17/13


I'm not asking you to judge him, it's just that there seems to be a disconnect here. I don't get it. God said that we are recognized by our fruits, so to me this seems wrong. And it's not as if he is struggling with these sins (like all of us struggle with our own) and is trying to become better and let God change him. He has said to me this is what he will continue doing and that God doesn't mind it.
---Isis on 6/17/13


Also, just fyi this man is my mom's boyfriend (but he says he is her "spiritual" husband, which is his reason why they can be intimate.) So every time I go home to visit, I am bombarded with this. He likes to pick arguments with me, as if he's trying to justify his actions. My belief system is clearly different and I don't feel like arguing with him. I believe that God takes us as we are, but He calls us to be holy as He is. If there are things that we know offend him, shouldn't we want and at least try to quit them out of love for God?
---Isis on 6/17/13


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Isis...That person is a fool. No one who is saved would say such a thing. The Bible clearly states that drunkards and fornicators will not enter the Kingdom of God. Get a video camera and record this person when he/she is drunk. Then play it back to them later and ask them if they think this is a Christian.
---KarenD on 6/17/13


Let me begin by saying that I am the judge of no man, and can not reveal the hearts of others, but remember what Christ said. "You cannot serve God and mammon (money, initially self)." We are called to despise what he is DOING, but not the person himself. Regarding the question of how we should think of him/her, I would die for him/her, but I would never support their actions, and constantly be seeking scriptures to show them how much more amazing it is to serve God rather than mammon.
---A_servant on 6/17/13


2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.

Colossians 3:9 seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds, And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, And be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God,
---francis on 6/17/13


In Jude he speaks about people like that in Verse 4 and then concludes that they are "filthy dreamers" in verse 8.

It's true that you have to get muddy to pull someone out of a mud pit. If they've been sealed with the Spirit and won't obey God, they're headed for a rocky coast to become another shipwreck en route to the shores of good faith.

The misery this person is headed for is crushing, restore them if you can (Gal. 6:1) and part ways if you can't. Bad company corrupts good morals.
---Pharisee on 6/17/13


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Isis, that is the question that most of the SDA's ask. They ask that because they promote the written law, for one reason only, for Saturday Sabbath. What they forget is that everyone is a sinner even SDA's, all come short of the glory of God. We are not saved by anything we do or not do, we are saved by the Grace of God through faith. It is a work of God on the sinner. Those without Christ are considered condemned for breaking the written Law, those who are in Christ, are forgiven, Christ fulfilled the whole written Law perfectly for them. (Eph. 2:10) tells us,
"For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"
---Mark_V. on 6/17/13


It's true that even Christians are great sinners, so the Scripture tells us. But here's a warning from the Bible,

"Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22,23

Just be mindful that salvation is 100% by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ and nothing else. But God will leave fruits in the Christian as evidence.
---christan on 6/16/13


Isis, "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me". "Let us draw near [to Him] with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus, [The] Christ. 'Believe on' (rely on, trust in, depend upon, and adhere to,) the Lord Jesus, [The] Christ, and you will be saved. Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! The worshipers, once purified, should have had no more consciousness of sin." The only "sin" that will restrict mans entry into the kingdom of heaven is unbelief.
---Josef on 6/16/13


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