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Leviathan And Behemouth

Who is leviathan and Behemouth is there something these bible scholars forgot to tell us about hence forbidding other books that express their existence?

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Francis I do not know of any trees which are dated at 100,000 years by growth-ring count, if that is what you mean. I cannot make sense of what you have written about trees. Can you please explain?

I would imagine Adam was created mature c 20 years of age in appearance and mental development.
---Warwick on 7/6/13


francis: You should probably leave off acting like a scientist - you're not very good at it. How is it that you are so adept at arguing in favor of the Fourth Commandment, yet so inept at understanding its basis - the literal six-day creation - and the factual basis of Noah's flood? Could it be your liberal indoctrination in academia?

This blog is about dinosaurs and you have turned it to olive seeds. (Some seeds actually float!) Please learn to spell-check your posts.



---jerry6593 on 7/6/13


--Warwick on 7/5/13
Yes I believe in a world wide flood. Warwick, that is not the question

The question is are the ages given for trees accurate is the 100,000's of years

God did create everything in six literal days, that is a historic fact. But God did not plant seed, he called mature trees, and mature human into life.

No one who had a baby can reason on day one, Adam could, no fruit bearing tree has fruit by day 6, yet all in Eden did. Which says that an orange tree which in Eden, on day 6, had a minimum characteristic age of 9 years, which is what science is showing, rather than chronological age

What characteristic age would you place Adam at on the very day he was created?
---francis on 7/5/13


Francis if you want to believe the leaf came from a tree which survived the flood then do so. I however do not think that fits with the flow of the account.

The question is do you take the description of the flood in Genesis as an historical reality?
---Warwick on 7/5/13


But if as you claim all vegetation was destroyed then all seeds would have likewise been destroyed.
---Warwick on 7/5/13
You are not following this properly

So, you do not believe in the Global Flood of Noah's day where everything was destroyed off the face of the earth?
---micha9344 on 7/2/13

I don't believe that any of the pre-flood trees survived - just seeds.
---jerry6593 on 7/3/13

Notice that total destruction of plant life is not my argument, but rather micha9344's and jerry6593

My argument is that not all plant life was destroyed, in fact the leaf that the dove pluckt came from a tree that survived the flood

does that help?
---francis on 7/5/13




Francis, that all vegetation was not destroyed, but mostly covered in (now) sedimentary rock, is right before our eyes. But if as you claim all vegetation was destroyed then all seeds would have likewise been destroyed.

However the real problem is that the flood and the post-flood regeneration of the earth was God's doing but you refuse to accept His account as historical truth. At the same time you quote Exodus 20:8-11 and insist this be taken as fact.

I ask you a question: Why is Exodus 20:8-11 to be taken as historical fact but Genesis chapter 8 not?
---Warwick on 7/5/13


micha9344 on 7/5/13

If all the water was gone, why wait 7 more days
why send yet another bird?

Matthew Henry's commentary
"He sent forth a dove, which returned the first time with no good news, but probably wet and dirty, but, the second time, she brought an olive-leaf in her bill, which appeared to be first plucked off, a plain indication that now the trees, the fruit-trees, began to appear above water"

So francis is right on BOTh counts
1: this olive tre surviced the flood
2: All the water has not yet receeded when the dove returned with the leaf
---francis on 7/5/13


\If you read the Noah text closely, you will note that even when the dove came back with the olive leaf, that the waters had not yet completely reseeded\-francis on 7/4/13
Gen 8:3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested ... upon the mountains ...
Gen 8:11 ... so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
--v11 says contrary to francis' statement. In fact, the Bible continues to contradict francis' statements. Whom shall we believe? And he calls himself an SDA? I guess there is a bad apple in every bunch, eh jerry?
---micha9344 on 7/5/13


---micha9344 on 7/3/13

under the muddy water?
Under the moving water?

---francis on 7/3/13

Add saline/salt water in their fairytale flood. Most of the water on earth is saline and would be combined globally. Not good for growing most things....except CoCoNuts.

There was no global flood. Large flood covered over 500thousand Square miles....yes. GOD doesn't lie. It wiped out Noah's lineage.....not Warwicks or everyone elses. It wiped out all the animals/flesh in the regional Erets/Land/Country.
Mission was accomplished. Warwick will concoct any scenario to be off Noah's boat.
---Trav on 7/5/13


Warwick on 7/5/13
I do not think that you are following this threed closely

The assumption here is that all life, even plant life was destroyed, thus the olive had to come from a seed which by all accounts had to germinate during the flood, which is imposible
---francis on 7/5/13




Francis, why do you obsess about seeds? Read what I wrote?

Rugini et al 1998 p.439, have demonstrated olive fragments root quicker in low light and in the presence of putrescine as in within decaying flotsam, found upon the appearing land.

Your time-span is odd considering Scripture says the ark came to rest upon the Mountains of Ararat on the 17th day of the 7th month. It wasn't until 47 days after the 1st day of the 10th month (i.e. more than half-way through the 11th month that the dove found the olive leaf. The scientific literature shows this is plenty of time for olive fragments to root and sprout.

Why do you oppose what God has written here and insist the 7th day Sabbath must be obeyed?
---Warwick on 7/5/13


---Warwick on 7/4/13
The preferred method for growing olive is from shoots not from seeds

It is very difficulty to get any fruit bearing seed to germinate in flood condition, especially without sunlight

the young roots needs to immediately grasp hold of something and feed

the shoot needs immediate sunlight

On the other hand, grown trees can survive flood condition for some periods of time

If you read the Noah text closely, you will note that even when the dove came back with the olive leaf, that the waters had not yet completely reseeded
---francis on 7/4/13


Francis have a second look and you will see the references I gave were all about parts of olive trees regenerating. I did not mention seeds as I did not research that. I am confident that as well as olive tree parts (even fragments) seeds will shoot in the time-line outlined by Michael.

It always helps when you actually read what someone has written.

Maybe you should write to Rugini et al and tell them they got it wrong?
---Warwick on 7/4/13


---David on 7/4/13
Genesis 5:3 Seth: 130
Genesis 5:6 Enos 235
Genesis 5:9 Cainan: 334
Genesis 5:12 Mahalaleel: 404
Genesis 5:15 Jared: 469
Genesis 5:18 Enoch: 631
Genesis 5:21 Methuselah 696
Genesis 5:25 Lamech 883
Genesis 5:28 Noah 1065
Noah was 600 when he entered the ark, so date of flood is ~1666 after creation

time span between land appearing and the dove coming with a leaf.
---Warwick on 7/4/13
That would be seven days
Genesis 8:10-11
from seed to tree in seven days under flood conditions.

NO

Olive seeds cannot germinate in flood conditions, they need sunlight and limited water

This leaf could come from nothing else but an olive tree not rooted up y the flood
---francis on 7/4/13


Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived 130 years, That is dating
---francis on 7/3/13

Good point, but the unbeliever doesn't recognize the Bible as the word of God.

With Genesis 6:4 telling us there were Giants walking on the earth in the days before and after the flood. We can use mans science (the archeological records), to determine when the flood actually occurred.
These records prove the existence of these (Giants). Those Giants which are now extinct are called Dinosaurs.
If the Giraffe had become extinct during the flood, it too would be called a Dinosaur.
If a man of science doesn't recognize the Bible as the word of God, you must use their science to prove the Bible is the word of God.


---David on 7/4/13


---Warwick on 7/3/13
---micha9344 on 7/3/13

why don't you guys try it?
Olive seeds are readily available for planting

place a few seed in a large bucket of water and dirt, make sure that the seeds are completely covered by the water with enough dirt to send roots
come back to CN in 7 months give us your results
---francis on 7/4/13


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Francis the time-frame I referred to was Michaels regarding the time span between land appearing and the dove coming with a leaf. The scientific literature I referred to says almost any olive tree fragment can produce shoots in far less than the above time-frame. Relevantly Rugini et al 1988,p.439 points out such shoots occur quicker in low light such as within decaying flotsam. Also relevantly such decaying matter produces putrescine, which speeds up rooting.

Could an olive leaf have been produced in the above time-frame? Scientific testing shows it could. However far more importantly God says it did. Those who call themselves Christians but will not believe all His word are in a dangerous place.
---Warwick on 7/4/13


francis: Your pro-Darwin mindset has so twisted your thinking that you concoct the most ridiculous theories yet. Scuba diving doves yet! ROFL!

You are supposed to be a man of the Bible. Act like it.




---jerry6593 on 7/4/13


All well within the Biblical time frame you have given.
---Warwick on 7/3/13

Biblical time frame 5-6 months YES even from a seed

Biblical conditions as described, from a seed:

Under the muddy water?
Under the moving water?
In flood conditions?

let me just say HA HA HA
not a chance that this branch which the dove pluckt came from a seed
---francis on 7/3/13


Michael, interestingly olives can propagate quickly from almost any tree fragment, as scientific tests have shown e.g. Sheat 1965,pp 283-4. Even from branch fragments Holder 1903 p.209, even from bark fragments Casella 1931 p. 113. Shoots can appear within 30 days Sheat 1965 p. 284. All well within the Biblical time frame you have given.
---Warwick on 7/3/13


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---micha9344 on 7/3/13

under the muddy water?
Under the moving water?
---francis on 7/3/13


\fastest growning seed ever
To grow into a tree so quickly after the flood, that a leaf could be plucked off\-francis on 7/3/13
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month...
Gen 8:5 ...in the tenth [month]...
Gen 8:6 ...end of forty days...
Gen 8:10 ...yet other seven days...
How long do you think it takes a tree seed to germinate into a leaf seedling so that it can start its photosynthesis process?
Looks like Noah waited almost 5 months.
---micha9344 on 7/3/13


Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat.

It should be clear plain and simple to everyone, that there trees were displaying characteristic way beyound there chronological age

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

It should be clear plain and simple to everyone, that Adam, and Eve were displaying characteristic way beyound there chronological age
---francis on 7/3/13


There are many ways to assess the age of a tre,e counting rings is just oneof them. It IS the most simple / common way to age a fallen tree

There are other methods
And ofcourse different species grow at different rates

AT the end of the day, the ages of trees will be older than the age of the earth, because a 6 day old tree does not give fruit
---francis on 7/3/13


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they did not have a dating system during these days.
---David on 7/3/13
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived 130 years,

That is dating

I don't believe that any of the pre-flood trees survived -just seeds.
---jerry6593 on 7/3/13

Genesis 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening, and, lo, in her mouth [was] an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth

fastest growning seed ever
To grow into a tree so quickly after the flood, that a leaf could be plucked off
---francis on 7/3/13


\francis: Counting tree rings is a notoriously poor dating method. Multiple rings can be produced in a single year depending on temperature and rainfall cycles.
The best (most accurate) method for dating fossils (and thus the layers of rock in which they are found) is the Accelerator Mass Spectrometer Carbon 14 Method. Using this method, ALL fossil layers worldwide have the same age - c4,500 years BP - coincidentally, the age of Noah's flood ... I don't believe that any of the pre-flood trees survived - just seeds.-jerry6593 on 7/3/13
--Agreed--
---micha9344 on 7/3/13


You criticize me for my lack of Scripture then promote ....
---Warwick on 7/2/13

Truth is hard. Harder for those scripture shines light on. As a confused person I accept you. As a preacher you have no scriptural marks.
Like Rabbi's we know, your title is for esteem rather than truth.

You say I promote...if promoting is pointing.... to the possibility's then yes. I promote seeking. As in Gen 1 eating your doctrines lunch.
Your fear is your testament. Truth would free you from strife with yourself and others. But, there is no worldly esteem as reward, so you've chose.

Isa 50:8 He is near that justifieth me, who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.
---Trav on 7/3/13


In Genesis 6:4, it says there were Giants on the Earth in those days, and it says they were here before and after the flood.
I believe we were given this information as a reference of time in which the flood occurred since they did not have a dating system during these days.
The giants which survived are what we call, the Elephant, the Hippo, the Rhinoceros, and the Giraffe.
---David on 7/3/13


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francis: Counting tree rings is a notoriously poor dating method. Multiple rings can be produced in a single year depending on temperature and rainfall cycles.

The best (most accurate) method for dating fossils (and thus the layers of rock in which they are found) is the Accelerator Mass Spectrometer Carbon 14 Method. Using this method, ALL fossil layers worldwide have the same age - c4,500 years BP - coincidentally, the age of Noah's flood.

I gave you the non-answer "science" to your question just to show you how frustrating it is. Actually, orange trees produce fruit as early as 2 or 3 years.

I don't believe that any of the pre-flood trees survived - just seeds.





---jerry6593 on 7/3/13


Elder. We can calculate the chronolohical age of the earth by calculating birth dates. Example Adam was130 years old when he had Seth. So Seth bith date equals chronolohical age of earth. Seth lives 105 years and had Enos. Enos birth date gives earth235 years.
---francis on 7/2/13


"When we find a tree,dead or alive, that has rings which show characteristic age greater than 8000 years, we know that this tree was on original tree from eden,"
francis
So one year after God created trees they had one ring huh?
The only thing we can prove is how old the tree is not the age of the earth.
Who has a 8000 year old tree any way?
---Elder on 7/2/13


---micha9344 on 7/2/13

lets not forget that on the day on which Adam was created, there were mature fruit bearing trees with fruit ready to eat. Trees that normally takes 9-10 years to give fruit if planted as seeds were giving fruit on day 6.

They were displaying characterist age, not chronological age

Genesis 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening, and, lo, in her mouth [was] an olive leaf pluckt off:

So not all plants were destroyed in the flood

good questions michae
---francis on 7/2/13


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/That is why science dates some plants and animals millions of years, this is based on characterists, not chonology/-francis on 7/2/13
"Science" (used loosely) dates fossils millions of years old because of false assumptions built into radiometric dating methods, and the need to deny the authority of God. God, therefore, gave them over to their desires.
The three main assumptions made are:
Constant decay rate.
No Contamination.
Preselected starting point.
None of these can be verified over thousands of years, let alone millions or billions.
Check out how old rocks from known eruptions appear to be using radiometric dating.
And they want to use the same methods with unknown dates?
---micha9344 on 7/2/13


/When we find a tree,dead or alive, that has rings which show characteristic age greater than 8000 years, we know that this tree was on original tree from eden/-francis on 7/2/13
So, you do not believe in the Global Flood of Noah's day where everything was destroyed off the face of the earth?
---micha9344 on 7/2/13


We cannot determine how old the earth is by how long it takes a tree to grow.
---Elder on 7/2/
actually YES WE CAN
and that is exactly what we do

we know that some trees have rings that corespond to thier age.

When we find a tree,dead or alive, that has rings which show characteristic age greater than 8000 years, we know that this tree was on original tree from eden,
---francis on 7/2/13


There is a difference between chonological age, and characteristal age

Adam on his chronological age of 1 day, was characteristally 5 years minimum ( walking and talking, old enough to have a wife)

That is why science dates some plants and animals millions of years, this is based on characterists, not chonology
---francis on 7/2/13


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"How long does it take an orange tree in Florida to grow from seedling to mature enough to gve ripe fruit?"
francis
In the beginning when God created an orange tree would it be mature or just a seed?
If I build a house the same day a baby is born and he buys it when he is 40 that doesn't mean it took 40 years to build it.
We cannot determine how old the earth is by how long it takes a tree to grow.
---Elder on 7/2/13


Trav, Dr Schweitzer's religious beliefs do not prevent her from doing rigorous scientific tests. She and her scientist colleagues have verified that unfossilised T-Rex bone found in the US had blood cells and flexible veins found inside, meaning it is at most thousands of years old-as God tells Job, solid evidence for the Biblical account (Genesis 1:24) that all land dwelling animals were created on the same day as man.

Despite your petulant comments I continue to dialogue with you. Who else would continue for so long?

You criticize me for my lack of Scripture then promote an antiBiblical long-ages view, which is contradicted by the Biblical genealogies and by the words of Jesus Himself. What a joke!
---Warwick on 7/2/13


//
How long does it take an orange tree in Florida to grow from seedling to mature enough to gve [sic] ripe fruit?

---francis on 7/1/13 //



science!!




---jerry6593 on 7/2/13


Trav, that Dr Schweitzer is a Christian is irrelevant, she believes dinosaurs died out c65 million years ago, far outside the Biblical time frame for the earth's age. Her authority is human belief not God's word.
---Warwick on 6/30/13

Well, your opinion is irrelevant for any seeker of truth. While I personally don't believe in 65million yr old dino's. I'd believe in her open for witnesses research, over your foolish doctrines of men.
You are far too closed to any scriptural witnesses to bear total truth fruit. Find it's your way coming up short every time.
The earth is scripturally and geologically older, than your doclogic permits.
You ignore that GOD has no years, or limitations such as you strive over.
---Trav on 7/1/13


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Peter, you are correct Dr Schweitzer's beliefs are not relevant, as I wrote.

Dr Schweitzer's comments say it all "the bones, after all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?" as recorded in 'Science', July 9, 1993 p. 160.

Continuing investigation, by Dr Schweitzer bone revealed elastic blood vessels and other soft tissue. Her reaction: "It was totally shocking," Schweitzer says. "I didnt believe it until wed done it 17 times" cited in Science 307:1852, 25 March 2005.

Why shocking? Because she and her associates are well aware soft tissues cannot remain soft for more than a few thousand years, strong evidence that this Dinosaur was alive recently, in geologic terms.
---Warwick on 7/1/13


francis:

You said: yes cobalt and hydrogen are used by dragons in whatever process to produce fire.

jerry6593 asked: What is your source for this (mis)information? Comic books?

you replied: science!!

Can you cite any scientific journals that discuss existence of dragons (let alone the chemistry of their fire breathing)? Inquiring minds want to know!

I once read a fanciful book about hypothetical physics of dragons. It showed huge creatures could not fly without buoyancy (like hydrogen balloons), explaining legends of fire breathing (to reduce hydrogen), eating metal (to make it), and sitting on precious metals (only thing stomach acids wouldn't dissolve).
---StrongAxe on 7/1/13


jerry6593 on 7/1/13

How long does it take an orange tree in Florida to grow from seedling to mature enough to gve ripe fruit?
---francis on 7/1/13


Francis: "yes cobalt and hydrogen are used by dragons in whatever process to produce fire."

What is your source for this (mis)information? Comic books?
---jerry6593 on 7/1/13

science!!
---francis on 7/1/13


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\ She is right blood cells cannot last that long, only thousands of years.
---Warwick on 6/30/13\\

There are stranger things in the universe than blood cells lasting for multi-milllions of years.

And as I understand it, these were NOT blood cells, but marrow cells--but I may be mistaken.

How does either interpretation adversely affect the truth of the Incarnation or Resurrection of our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ?

Glory to Him!
---Cluny on 6/30/13


bible and science don't ever agree. I think I just go with God.
---shira4368 on 7/1/13


Warwick: Dr Schweitzer's beliefs are not the issue here. The issue is whether that paper in Science is true or not.

The real question is how old those bones REALLY are.

If we accept Genesis, they cannot be so old, of course.

If one does accept that they are so old, because one believes the idea of radio-dating, one could somehow-maybe-somehow assume that something got passed over, though it seems unlikely

Even though it is not so likely, there have been suggestions that the cells are more modern and are actually contaminants

What one decides is a matter of ones preconceptions
---Peter9556 on 7/1/13


Francis: "yes cobalt and hydrogen are used by dragons in whatever process to produce fire."

What is your source for this (mis)information? Comic books?



---jerry6593 on 7/1/13


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Trav, that Dr Schweitzer is a Christian is irrelevant, she believes dinosaurs died out c65 million years ago, far outside the Biblical time frame for the earth's age. Her authority is human belief not God's word.

When she and her co-workers found blood cells in unfossilised T-Rex bone (what not fossilized after 65 million years?) it caused quite a stir. Schweitzer said she got goose bumps. "It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern bone. But of course, I couldnt believe it . . .the bones, after all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long? 'Science', July 9, 1993 (p. 160).

Ditch Wiky and stick to scientific literature. She is right blood cells cannot last that long, only thousands of years.
---Warwick on 6/30/13


I do not think that bible scholars know much about leviathan and Behemouth to have forgotten to tell us about them.
---francis on 6/30/13


In the US in 1990 a T-Rex skeleton was found and investigated bDr Mary Schweitzery .
How could this material exist if dinosaurs became extinct c60 million years ago? Not possible.
---Warwick on 6/18/13

First this preachers facts are wrong, using the same typical name denigrating or namedropping salesmanship. This "Christian" woman Dr Mary Schweitzer received fragments of the dinosaur discovered in 2000.
Easy to google witnesses verifying.
Verify everything the Wiz from down under tells you. His scripturally un supported doctrines are his mission. Not GOD's. GOD can do anything. Having made Dino's to begin with...he can preserve or make them rise again as Israel if he chooses.
---Trav on 6/30/13


---James on 6/29/13

LOL
---francis on 6/29/13


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-James on 6/29/13
I may be a cobalt expert
I may be a hydrogen expert
---francis on 6/29/13


Francis, whether or not cobalt and hydrogen door do not produce fire is not really the issue.

The real issue is whether you know enough about dragons to say for sure so much about dragons - are you such an expert on dragons? Do you have one in your basement to do experiment?
---James on 6/29/13


---jerry6593 on 6/29/13

yes cobalt and hydrogen are used by dragons in whatever process to produce fire.

Maybe they include methane gas, but those two hydrogen and cobalt was used to make their fire
1
---francis on 6/29/13


Francis: "So a fire breathing dragon is nothing but cabalt and hydrogen"

What is "cabalt"? If you mean the metal "cobalt", it does not react with hydrogen to produce fire.


---jerry6593 on 6/29/13


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Bombardier beetle

which are most notable for the defense mechanism that gives them their name: when disturbed, they eject a hot noxious chemical spray from the tip of their abdomen, with a popping sound.

The spray is produced by a reaction between two chemical compounds, hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, stored in separate reservoirs in the beetle's abdomen and mixed when needed in a third chamber with water and catalytic enzymes. Heat from the reaction brings the mixture to near the boiling point of water and produces gas that drives the ejection

So a fire breathing dragon is nothing but cabalt and hydrogen
---francis on 6/24/13


Not sure but I read somewhere that in the end times he would battle with Michael and Gabriel would be served up for the righteous????
---Carla on 6/22/13


Trey of course we can all have our ideas but read the description of Leviathan in Job and tell me how it matches with a whale or alligator.
---Warwick on 6/22/13


agreed Tray according to research leviathan is male and I believe Behemoth is female?

furious dragons?
---Carla on 6/22/13


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Leviathan - Whale or aligator, possibly a dragon hard to tell.
Behemoth - dinosaur.

Just my thoughts.
---trey on 6/21/13


\\these bible scholars forgot to tell us about hence forbidding other books that express their existence?\\

Carla, can you give any definite names of "these bible scholars"?

Or do you even know what you're talking about?

(This is an example of what I mean about writing clearly meaning thinking clearly.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/21/13


Carla: "I'm sure there's some mention of it returning at some point???"

What returning - exactly?



---jerry6593 on 6/21/13


Im sure there some mention of it returning at some point???
---Carla on 6/19/13


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\\Man's knowledge of antiquity is incomplete.
---helper on 6/19/13\\

True. Someone once said that the average person has little true knowledge about the past, but definite ideas about it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/19/13


No, I mean Job and I'm speaking in terms of history that it can't be proven to have been written before that time, it certainly doesn't mean it wasn't however. Man's knowledge of antiquity is incomplete.
---helper on 6/19/13


Helper, if you mean that Genesis has no historical roots before 950BC, I cannot agree. Jesus and the apostles quoted from or alluded to the first 11 chapters of Genesis no fewer that 107 times, and always as sober history. And if we cannot trust what Jesus', a perfect eye-witness, says then who can we trust?
---Warwick on 6/19/13


micha is right, Job is post flood, two of Job's friends have relatives in Genesis (Eliphaz the temanite Gen 36:11-15, and Bildad the Shuhite Gen 25:2) with Eliphaz being descended from Esau that's how the dating of the events are in the patriarchal age, even though the book has no historical roots beyond 950 BC
---helper on 6/18/13


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They had to have been post-flood. Job is post-flood. God spoke to Job as if he knew about these creatures.
Billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the world have remains of creatures that fit the descriptions in Job. It would only stand to reason that when God gathered "all" land dwelling creatures for Noah that the behemoth would be two of them. The leviathan, however, was sea-dwelling, so was preserved in the sea.
More than enough room in the 1.5 million cubic feet of space in the ark, especially considering the animals didn't need to be adult.
---micha9344 on 6/18/13


Carla people have described, drawn and carved animals which conform to what we, today, call dinosaurs.

One example is in Carlisle Cathedral (UK). In the main aisle, under a protective carpet is the tomb of Bishop Bell (1410-96) upon which are brass engravings of creatures which anyone would recognize as dinosaurs!

Another is in Cambodia at Ankor watt (temple) where there is a carving of a stegosaurus on a stone column, 800 years old.

In the US in 1990 a T-Rex skeleton was found and investigated by Dr Mary Schweitzer. Some of the bones were not mineralized, and inside one were found blood cells, and flexible tissue. How could this material exist if dinosaurs became extinct c60 million years ago? Not possible.
---Warwick on 6/18/13


Did they exist after the flood?
---Carla on 6/18/13


Form the quite detailed descriptions given (Job ch. 40) Behemoth cannot be any creature alive today as none fits with the description. For example no living creature has a tail like a cedar tree, a very large straight tree. The description best fits with a very large vegetarian dinosaur.

In Job ch. 41 we read of Leviathan. Some have suggested Leviathan is a crocodile however that does not fit with the description as Job says Leviathan cannot be hooked or speared, that man cannot handle or kill him. Conversely natives with spears easily kill crocodiles. The description best fits with a massive sea going reptile, such as no longer exists.
---Warwick on 6/18/13


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Man's knowledge has increased tremendously over the past 100 years. So have the meaning of words and even the opposite meaning of words. Man today has an abundance of knowledge which clouds the true meaning of the gospel. Remember that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness. So what do don't know will be revealed as you continue to read with the help of the Holy Spirit. Try reading the bible through the eyes of a child to help understand the simple gospel.
---Steveng on 6/17/13


Who exactly did you have in mind when you said "these bible scholars", Carla?

Can you be specific?

Christ is risen!
---Cluny on 6/17/13


fire breathing dragon, and mamoth
---francis on 6/17/13


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