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Mark Of The Beast Sunday

Is there a connection between the Mark of the Beast, the 7th-Day Sabbath and the day of Sunday?

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 ---Gordon on 6/18/13
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---Warwick on 6/27/13
There is no doubt that those who are saved, do obey the laws of God
Revelation 14:12 the saints: here [re they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


my statement is "always."
---Elder on 6/27/13
Well then you are dead wrong

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---francis on 6/27/13


Elder, I posted this Blog Question, and I can testify on Francis' behalf that he is on the right track for bringing up the Sabbath issue. For it is very much connected to the Mark of the Beast.

And, certainly Francis shows concern about obeying GOD in this Sabbath issue.

Unlike what can be said of your lot.
---Gordon on 6/27/13


StrongAxe, I think Francis believes salvation is by faith but that those saved by faith will have good works (e.g. strive to obey the Law). I am still awaiting an answer from him. As to James Ch. 2 he does say the saved do show they are saved by works, that faith without works is dead.

As regards verse 11 is James speaking of those yet unsaved who believe they can be saved by obedience to the Law, but cannot as no one is righteous, and to fail in one point is to fail in all?

Or is he speaking of those whose sins were forgiven by the finished work of Jesus upon the cross, who post-salvation continue, for example, to commit adultery?

Another meaning?
---Warwick on 6/27/13


"Francis is always talking about keeping the sabbath.
---Elder on 6/26/13
Look at the blog question and tell me what should francis be talking about?
I am amazed that people come to blogs that have to do with the law and the sabbath,a nd tell me that I am posting based on the blog question
DUH"
francis
francis the key word in my statement is "always."
We could be blogging that Goliah wore big pants and you'd say he only wore them to sabbath worship.
Aggh..... double DUH...
---Elder on 6/27/13


Warwick:

You said: Elder, I have never seen Francis write we are saved by obeying the law. In fact he recently wrote we are saved by faith alone.

Yet he reminds us that James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Since the wages of sin is death, and offending in even the smallest point is sin, doesn't that mean that breaking a law kills us - i.e. deprives us of salvation? Thus, our own salvation depends on our keeping the law (i.e. works). One can't have it both ways.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/13




"according to THE WORD OF GOD we must keep the law."
francis
So, Francis are we saved by keeping the law of Moses or by the Grace of God?
Which law are we to keep, the law of Moses or the Royal law?
Is Jesus the end of the law or not?
---Elder on 6/26/13


--Peter on 6/26/13

You are mistaken, the Sabbath was not the only time that Jesus taught

Luke 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Now as to keeping the " resting laws of the sabbath" I would like to hear what you would replace them with, and which ones you would like to replace, keeping this text in mind: Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
---francis on 6/26/13


Francis thank you for what you have written, however the point is-do you believe you must obey the law to be saved, in the first place.

I am not asking if obedience of the law is required for those already saved. That is another matter.
---Warwick on 6/26/13


Therefore, according to his statements we must keep the law.
---Elder on 6/26/13

according to THE WORD OF GOD we must keep the law.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 6/26/13


Warwick on 6/26/13: It is true that Jesus went to the Synagogue to teach on the Sabbath.

However, it would not really be possible to teach at another time in the synagogue, for that was the time for people to be in the synagogue.

I have no problem with being either in the synagogue or any other place for resting on the Sabbath

I am just not sure that ALL of the resting laws must be followed now in the NT.

Of course, I do not know how many should be followed
---Peter on 6/26/13




Francis is always talking about keeping the sabbath.
---Elder on 6/26/13
Look at the blog question and tell me what should francis be talking about?

I am amazed that people come to blogs that have to do with the law and the sabbath,a nd tell me that I am posting based on the blog question
DUH
---francis on 6/26/13


Elder, I have never seen Francis write we are saved by obeying the law. In fact he recently wrote we are saved by faith alone. It appears to me he believes we are saved by faith and once saved should obey the 10 Commandments as part of our saved by faith life. Francis please clarify: do you agree with Romans 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law"?

Where does this leave us. I ask you should we claim to be Christian and purposefully, as a lifestyle, live contrary to the 10 Commandments? Can we worship other gods for example? So as I have seen Francis and others write why should we live by 9 of them and not the 10th?

I look forward to both your replies.
---Warwick on 6/26/13


Warwick, thank you for your comments and concern. Francis is always talking about keeping the sabbath. Sabbath worship is part of the law. If you don't keep the sabbath (if it is required as according to him in many places) then you are breaking the law. Therefore, according to his statements we must keep the law.
Francis, post all of my comment not just part of it ("Keeping the law will not get you to heaven. The law can't save."
Elder on 6/25/13)
Now, have you stopped sinnning because you are under grace?
---Elder on 6/26/13


Can anyone tell me why SOME bussnisses are closed on sundays?

I only wish to have an honest answer
---francis on 6/26/13


Elder, I do not always agree with Francis but has he ever said that salvation is via the work of obeying the law? I do not remember where he has said this but you claim he has. If you cannot show where he has written this you must apologize. You must do one or the other or your integrity can be called into doubt.

Only recently I again saw Francis straight-forwardly write that he believes in salvation by faith alone.
---Warwick on 6/26/13


Cluny, you have ducked my comments to you.

The Scriptures I gave show there was preaching/worshiping activity in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Luke 4:16 says Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath as was His custom. How did He get there?

Where does Scripture say they could not walk to the Synagogue on the Sabbath, as you claim?

Mark 1:21 "And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching."

Again we have God's word directly contradicting your personal beliefs. You reject God's word and then say "Glory to Jesus Christ." Odd don't you think?

Maybe you should defend what you have written otherwise we are free to doubt your integrity.
---Warwick on 6/26/13


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--Elder and-Peter9556 on 6/25/13

vision of the sheets:
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Nothing to dowith diet at all

1 Timothy 4:3-5
Even If I gave you seven years, you will NEVER find anywhere in the word of God where God has ever sanctified what He calls unclean to be eaten. The phrase " word of God" as used in this context refers only to what is written in the books we call the OT

Elder your comment " law will not get you into hevaen" Is that suggesting we should sin because we are under grace?
---francis on 6/26/13


The Two Greatest Commandments were taught by Moses in Deuteronomy and in Leviticus. But you say these books as well as the rest of the whole Bible was done away with. The New Testament which taught from the Old Testament and Paul told Timothy was to be used for doctrine.

We are not saved by law on that I agree. We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. But we are not saved to live in sin. See IJohn.

In Hebrews the Covenant that was made with Israel is repeated from Jeremiah 31 and states GOD's laws will be written in our hearts. For Centuries the Church taught that the Ten commandments were moral laws and all moral laws were to be written in our heart. Today it seems that Moral laws are being thrown out.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/26/13


As for Peter's vision have you read what He said it means? Acts 11. I hear so many say only part of the vision and say it means it is okay to eat unclean food. But that is ignoring Peter's words.

I do believe that if a person believes it is a sin to eat unclean food then it is a sin.

But I also know that GOD made our bodies and that it is not healthy to eat that which He said is bad for us to eat.

Joel Olsten has a sermon on unclean food on utube.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/26/13


francis, thanks for posting II Tim 4:3 but we all ready knew you will not accept sound doctrine.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second.
v13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The law was given to Israel not the N T Church.
People like you push the keeping of commandment and forget that the two greatest commandments are not listed in the Ten Commandmants.
You don't even teach all of the law. So, don't try to fool anyone, some of us know.
Read Heb 9:1-4 and II Cor 2 and tell us what abolished means.
Keeping the law will not get you to heaven. The law can't save.
---Elder on 6/25/13


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Francis: You quoted Matthew 5:18 one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

It places you is as difficult a position as the rest of the people here, though, because of the sheet with the unclean animals.

It is rather a 'cheat' for you to say that as a result 'the law' only means to 10 commandments, though you can do that.

But then you have to remember that Jesus corrected others about 'work' meant in Ex 20 and Deut 5, and so what God really desires of us on the Sabbath is something we must be careful of.



You can argue perfectly well that both days should be remembered - one as God's day of rest, and one Jesus' resurrection day.

But don't get too heated up about it
---Peter9556 on 6/25/13


And in Acts 15, only 4 things are banned. It is said that the scriptures are read even Sabbath, but it does not say whether we must follow ALL the resting laws of the OT.

To remember, and to celebrate, yes, but what laws to follow is not really stated clearly Peter9556

Good point Peter. Which is why for centuries Christian churches still kept Sabbath but did it on Sunday. It is the modern church which has made Sunday a day of games, work and play and keep no Sabbath at all. The Sabbath was set to honor GOD. But today there is no more time on Sabbath for many to read their bible because the game or some other pleasure is more important then honoring GOD is found to be needed.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/25/13


---Elder on 6/25/13

You mean you prefer the way others do it with the lie that we only have to keep 9/10 commandments?

You do not like the fact that I teach that although we are saved by Crace, that we must still continue to keep all the laws of God?

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I get it, you are not alone
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears,
---francis on 6/25/13


Do not allow yourself to be deceived my friend
Someone comes up to you and say you do not have to keep the law or commandments of God, and that all you have to do is love, they will deceive you.

There is no distinction between keeping the law and commandments of God and Love
Francis


One tries to keep it and one fulfill it!
On this commandment hang all the law and the prophets.
The fulfillment of the law!

That ye love one another, (as I have loved you,) that ye also love one another.

If ye fulfill the royal law (according to the scripture,) Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Receive not honor from men
but of God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/25/13


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Francis I know how much false doctrine you try to spread. That is why I wrote. There is a host of people that present the Gospel better than you do. Pharisee, Shirl and Trish are just a couple of the resent ones. They use biblical truth not supposition
---Elder on 6/25/13


---Elder on 6/25/13
This is not pride, it is not boasting, it is a fact. All blog remain on CN look it up, and try to find anyoneon CN that posts afirmitively , extensively, clearly, and abundantly about righteousness by faith than I do

geez francis, all you know is how to keep the law.
---shira4368 on 6/24/13
In addition to RBF, i also post about what happens at death, the mortality of the soul, the divinity, and humanity of Jesus, prophecy, and many other subject. So why do you think I anly know about the law?
---francis on 6/25/13


"Also if you search CN you will find that no one here speaks more afirmitively , extensively, clearly, and abundantly about righteousness by faith than I do"
francis
Wow!! I'd like to have your autograph..... on a Postal Money Order.
You are a legend in your own mind.
Note: Pride is sin.... there goes your keeping of the law. Talk on that.
I think you speak more afirmitively , extensively, and abundantly about
yourself than anyone else on CN.
---Elder on 6/25/13


---TheSeg on 6/25/13

Do not allow yourself to be decieved my friend

Someone comes up to you and say you do not have to keep the law or commandments of God, and that all you have to do is love, they will deceive you.

There is no distinction between keeping the law and commandments of God and Love

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
---francis on 6/25/13


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Shira you seem to think that a person cannot obey the law (i.e. refrain from adultery, theft, making idols etc) and at the same time know that we are saved only by faith, not works.

Surely we should all aim to live as God commands, shouldn't we? Or are we free to sin?
---Warwick on 6/25/13


Also if you search CN you will find that no one here speaks more afirmitively , extensively, clearly, and abundantly about righteousness by faith than I do.
francis

You still dont believe the law is only fulfilled by loving each other.
Until you do, you cannot fulfill the law.

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:


A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/25/13


geez francis, all you know is how to keep the law.
---shira4368 on 6/24/13
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Also if you search CN you will find that no one here speaks more afirmitively , extensively, clearly, and abundantly about righteousness by faith than I do
---francis on 6/24/13


why do you go during mid week if it isn't the Sabbath?
---shira4368 on 6/23/13

You have been mislead to believe that SDA only go to church on the sabbath.

Most SDA have a minimum of two services per week, with various groups meeting on different days based on the number of ministries in that church

Some SDA church meet every day
but that does not negate the commandment of God to keep the 7th day holy
---francis on 6/24/13


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geez francis, all you know is how to keep the law. I actually feel so sorry for you. do you honestly think you are going to preach that to people here on this site? most on this site can put you in the dirt with your law keeping.
---shira4368 on 6/24/13


---Peter9556 on 6/23/13
We are to keep all the " rules" of the law pertaining to the sabbath as foudninthe ten commandments

Matthew 5:18 one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

---francis on 6/24/13


Cliff, the relevance is that Cluny wrote "The weekly Sabbath had NOTHING to do with assembling for common worship, because people were forbidden to leave their homes." This is obviously not so as I have shown from Scripture-Verse 44 "The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord."

---Warwick on 6/24/13


Francis: 'But Sabbath is still Sabbath,'

True. However, the question is how much of the OT rules about the Sabbath have to be obeyed now in the NT. One law was directly removed by God in Acts 10:9-16, the sheet with the unclean animals given to Peter.

And in Acts 15, only 4 things are banned. It is said that the scriptures are read even Sabbath, but it does not say whether we must follow ALL the resting laws of the OT.

To remember, and to celebrate, yes, but what laws to follow is not really stated clearly
---Peter9556 on 6/23/13


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francis, I didn't say campmeetings were "sola scripture", I said we had campmeetings and they last all week. the only thing I ask you was did you go to campmeetings if they were not Saturday. why do you go during mid week if it isn't the Sabbath? you can watch your service on tv but I love campmeetings and I get fed and have wonderful fellowship.
I get to hear preachers that I love but rarely hear. I get to listen to Godly music from people I love.
---shira4368 on 6/23/13


Warwick, I find your post interesting in that nowhere did God command the building of synagogues or what was to be done there!
It was not a temple (church) more of a school, Jesus went there as was the "custom" (not a commandment) so whether they walked, rode a donkey or took a cab , has no relivence here!
---1st_cliff on 6/23/13


---shira4368 on 6/23/13
Camp meeting is not a biblical command ( sola scriptura?)

My local SDA church is never closed during camp meeting

So while camp meeting is going on 6 hours away, I am in my local church worshiping with those who do not wish to go to camp meeting

We are able to broadcast the liturgy directly from camp meeting live into our local churches, so that those who do not wish to travel may enjoy the camp meeting from the comfort of their local church

But Sabbath is still Sabbath, be it at camp ground, or local church
---francis on 6/23/13


Cluny, I trust you have done a little reading and now know what God means by keeping the Sabbath.

The Scriptures I gave show there was preaching/worshiping activity in the synagogues on the Sabbath. Luke 4:16 says Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath as was His custom. How did He get there?

Why do you ignore what Scripture says?

Where does Scripture say they could not walk to the Synagogue on the Sabbath?

Mark 1:21 "And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching."

Again we have God's word directly contradicting your personal beliefs. You reject God's word and then say "Glory to Jesus Christ." Odd don't you think?
---Warwick on 6/23/13


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So much for perpetual daylight as interpreted as literal!
---1st_cliff on 6/23/13
requires further explanation and if possible in context of blog question
---francis on 6/23/13


Frances, how many are Sabbaths, or is it 1 Sabbath? If you can stay home and get as much out of your service via internet, why do you even bother to go? You just cannot justify your Sabbath doctrine. Frankly you don't know anymore than anyone else what is the real Sabbath yet you are making it a part of your doctrine.
---shira4368 on 6/23/13


Furthermore, francis himself quoted a verse about NOT leaving one's home on the Sabbath.
---Cluny on 6/23/13
I think you are misstaklen, since you do not have an exact quote

If people did not leave their homes on sabbath, how else would they get to the temple or and synagoue on sabbath

Unless Jesus had a corn field in his back yard, how else was he walking in the worn field
---francis on 6/23/13


This is where I have a little problem with revelation,
Gen.8.22 (after saying that he will not destroy all living creatures) He says "summer winter DAY and NIGHT will never cease"
So much for perpetual daylight as interpreted as literal!
---1st_cliff on 6/23/13


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Francis, is Saturday the only day you ever go to Church?
---shira4368 on 6/23/13
NO.
We have services on Wednesday and Sabbaths ( Saturday) every week

Someone times we have week long meeting four days a week.

I am not partial to camp meeting, our camp meeting are broadcast over the internet, I do just fine watching from home

So, although I go to church services many days on the week, Saturday is the ONLY day of the week that is the Sabbath, blessed, hallowed, ans sanctified by God
---francis on 6/23/13


Your right, my bad Rev. 22:5 does though:

And there shall be no night there, and they need no candle, neither light of the sun, for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Even now we no longer have to go to a temple to enter the presence of God or have a single day in which we enter, but every day we are in him doing what the ancient Jews would do on their Sabbath, worshiping God and devoting the day to loving him.

Nobody needs a command for what they do naturally!

The temple ministry has passed from temples built by hands of man, the sacrifice is an eternal one and by it were made clean.
---Pharisee on 6/23/13


\\The Sabbath was a day of physical rest and spiritual activities.
---Warwick on 6/22/13\\

But "spiritual activities", especially outside the house, were not commanded in the Decalogue.

Furthermore, francis himself quoted a verse about NOT leaving one's home on the Sabbath. Of this, this is NOT in the 10 Commandments itself, and therefore, according to things francis has said elsewhere, was not from God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/23/13


Pharisee, Revelation 21:23 doesn't say what you have written but "And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb." It has day, as in daylight, but no night
---Warwick on 6/23/13


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Francis, is Saturday the only day you ever go to Church? Do you ever go to campmeetings that last for a week and sometimes two weeks. Would you go to a campmeeging on Saturday only? You have argued with everyone about your and keeping the Sabbath. Is that your main point of your doctrine? You make a big thing over the day you go to church. Does it matter if you go Saturday, Sunday or Monday?
---shira4368 on 6/23/13


Revelation 21:23 says there's no more day and no more night in the new creation of God.

How then does the Sabbath go on forever? The Bible says it goes on forever!

Either Jesus is the Sabbath rest now or God's word is returning void something he said it would never do.

If Jesus fulfilled all righteousness for us (he did) then our sabbath keeping is already complete if we are in him and every day is our Sabbath. The command was a unique Hebrew command, the ten commandments were never given to the gentiles. the Sabbath is a shadow of life in Christ.
---Pharisee on 6/22/13


Cluny, you should know what "keeping the Sabbath" means. Start with Exodus 20:8-11.

People were forbidden to leave their homes on the Sabbath! That's nonsense.

Luke 4:16 "... on the Sabbath day he (Jesus) went into the synagogue, as was his custom."

Acts 13:14 "On the Sabbath they (Paul and companions) entered the synagogue.." Paul was given the opportunity to preach, and did so-verses 16-42. They were invited to do so the following Sabbath. Verse 44 "The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord."

The Sabbath was a day of physical rest and spiritual activities.
---Warwick on 6/22/13


---Cluny on 6/22/13
Stop trying to misquote me, as you do the bible for your own good

Leviticus 23:3 the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation,

Ezekiel 46:3 the people of the land shall worship .. the LORD in the sabbaths

Isaiah 66:23 from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me,

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day

God's people are marked by their Sabbath keeping,Satan's people are marked by their willingness to accept a change in times and laws of God
---francis on 6/22/13


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So here we are, some people believing that Sunday is the Lord's day - the sabbath, some believing that Jesus is the sabbath, some believing that the 7th day is the sabbath of the lord, all claiming that the bible is the word of God and is true. Well shall we examine the scriptures to see if these things were so?

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath..my holy day,

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

If the bible is true, and you REALLY believe the bible, then you must acknowledge that you have been deceived with the Sunday lie.
---francis on 6/22/13


francis:

Yes, yes, we're heard you repeat Daniel 7:23 "to change times and laws" quote on here over and over and over again. We get it already. But so what? There is nothing there that makes any mention of Sunday, and you have not provided any evidence that this is IN ANY WAY related to Sunday Worship, other than the SDA prejudice that Sunday worship seems to be the "root of all evil". Do you have any SPECIFIC evidence that connects these two, rather than mere conjecture?

Remember, switching to Sunday worship happened long ago, and the Beast has not been revealed yet, so the two CANNOT be related.
---StrongAxe on 6/22/13


What do people mean by "keeping the Sabbath?"

The weekly Sabbath had NOTHING to do with assembling for common worship, because people were forbidden to leave their homes.

The commandment, as given in the Decalogue, is not about worship at all. Anything outside the Decalogue, according to what francis has said elsewhere, was from Moses, not from God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/22/13


The Sabbath verse Sunday thing is not hard to figure out

I was raised as a young boy as a Roman catholic. Of course Sunday seemed to be the day fo community worship to me, it seems right, because everyone else was doing it, catholic and protestants

when I became a teenage, i Read for myself, at the request of a SDA: Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of

Unless God sent Jesus to destroy or change the law, the 7th day must still be kept Holy by those who know what the Lord commands
---francis on 6/20/13


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---Elder on 6/19/13
Good question!!
none of the other laws of God, or sabbaths tells us who God is.
The weekly sabbath tells us that God created all thing, He is the creator.

The other sabbaths are associated with feasts such as day of atonement, passover and so on see blog Old Covenant Feasts
---francis on 6/20/13


Ones who refuse the mark of the beast are not allowed to buy or sell. So, receiving the mark could be connected with desire for what money can buy. So, possibly love of money makes someone able to receive the mark . . . depending on money instead of God.

So, how much does this mean I now am weak and compromised enough so I could give in to receiving the mark?

And ones who depend on money could be unable to keep the Sabbath, because they are trying to make . . . money . . . or make up for all they did not get done while seeking . . . money . . . during the week.

And if Sunday is the day their friends also are "free", they would prefer to take Sunday off.

So being money dependent could be a connection.
---willie_c: on 6/20/13


"As opposed to all the other sabbaths, the weekly sabbath tells us who God is:"
francis
So, how do you know not to keep the other sabbaths or why do you not?
What verse references your "As opposed to all the other sabbaths, the weekly sabbath tells us who God is:" statement?
---Elder on 6/19/13


Strange that you say the above. Do you think that God knows the difference between a "Mark" and a "Sign?"
---Elder on 6/19/13

As opposed to all the other sabbaths, the weekly sabbath tells us who God is:

His name - "the Lord."
His title - "thy God" (Creator).
His territory - "heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is."

Mark/ Sign/ seal same thing

Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness
---francis on 6/19/13


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"Funny you syait cannot be a mark, but God's mark si both a TIME ( Sabbath) and a LAW( Sabbath)"
francis
Strange that you say the above. Do you think that God knows the difference between a "Mark" and a "Sign?"
You will also note that the reference you use says to
hallow His sabbaths. Yet you and those like you only observe one sabbath, Saturday. Why is that?
---Elder on 6/19/13


Hebrews 10:16 I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

Daniel 7 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall ...think to change times and laws

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God

Rev 13:2 the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
---francis on 6/19/13


The Mark of the Beast is not a current problem. It is a future event. No one is receiving the Mark of the Beast currently.

What we are to be concerned about today is our relationship to JESUS CHRIST. Are we walking in love to others and working to help others.

Remember in Matthew 25 JESUS spoke of those who were treating others in love and by doing so showing they were followers of JESUS. While others who thought they were Christians ignored and did not care for others and so were rejected. What are we doing today to show love. That is our question now.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/19/13


Gordon and francis:

None of what Revelation says of the Beast (rules the whole earth, forces the mark, forbids buying without it) has happened yet. The Beast has not yet been revealed. So anything that any regime (despotic or not) has done, including changing days of worship, were NOT the actions of the Beast. It says nothing about day of worshipy.

Perhaps one should focus more on what the Bible actually says about him, rather than reading between the lines what it doesn't.

An old saying: to a man with a hammer, everyhing loooks like a nail. The same applies to anyone with a favorite doctrine (such as Saturday worship). Why do Seventh Day Adventists think EVERY EVIL is about Sunday worship?
---StrongAxe on 6/19/13


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Let me answer your question first, then make a comment. There is no connection between "the Mark of the Beast, the 7th-Day and the day of Sunday?"

You have to know who the beast is before you can tell what the mark of the beast is. Actually, I can almost tell you what year the book was written based on what people have guessed what the Mark of the Beast might be. For example: During WW 2 - it was thought by some to be the rationing sticker on the car that would allow a person to buy gas. Others have said it's the social security number and another one is to have a chip inserted in the left wrist. However,it's not really known. But, if it is true that the second beast in Revelation is on land, it may deal with economics.
---wivv on 6/19/13


Changing times and seasons is not a mark. That is an activity.
---Elder on 6/19/13
It is not times and season, no one can change the seasons, it is TIMES and LAWS

daniel 7 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall ...think to change times and laws

Funny you syait cannot be a mark, but God's mark si both a TIME ( Sabbath) and a LAW( Sabbath)

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God
---francis on 6/19/13


Changing times and seasons is not a mark. That is an activity.
The Egyptians had only three seasons. Their months were divided into 30 days each and were only 3 weeks long. They also used a Luni-Solar calendar. That was changed to be closer to correct with the earths time cycle.
The mark that Rev 13 speaks about identifies with the Man of Sin and his followers.
Does anyone think that changing from/to Daylight saving time is the mark of the beast? Many times the "Times of the Seasons" were changed. This is not Saturday to Sunday worship as we can't be certain which day was the 7th or the 1st day of the week.
---Elder on 6/19/13


Dear Francis: What we Christians have in common is the Bible not denominational doctrines. If the mark of the beast will be a key(in possession) to trade(buy or sell) with, why would you like to connect this with the Sabbath?
---Adetunji on 6/19/13


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\\noticable among those marks is this: daniel 7 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall ...think to change times and
---francis on 6/18/13\\

Russian Old Believers said that this was fulfilled by Peter the Great, because he changed the Russian method of dating from the former Anno Mundi to the BC/AD Chronology.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 6/18/13


There can not be any connection. For one reason no one can really tell when the original 1st day of the week, Sunday, or the last day, Saturday, is/was.
The Bible states that the Mark of the Beast is the NUMBER of a man, Rev 13:17-18, not a day of the week.
The word for this "mark" means the same as "a badge of servitude."
Has anyone noticed that the RCC and Muslims are required wear such "badges" in their symbols and dress?
---Elder on 6/18/13


In the bible, three out of teh four beast have names
1: Bablon,
2: Medo persia
3: greecia
4: fourth beast NO national / kingdom name

the only way we know who the forth beast is is by the prophecies / signs / mark assigned to the beast

noticable among those marks is this: daniel 7 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall ...think to change times and
---francis on 6/18/13


francis...NOPE!!!! Many of us have read the entire BIBLE.
---KarenD on 6/18/13


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Pharisee, Constantine was overtly anti Semitic .
Because the Jews worshipped on Saturday and he was a sun priest (Sol) he caused sunday to be the holy day!
Forbid Jews to serve in the army or marry Romans etc...
---1st_cliff on 6/18/13


daniel 7 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall ...think to change times and laws

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

So the forth beast changes God laws, whering is Gods sign / mark to his people and no one sees any connection?

The sign / mark of God which is teh sabbath has been replaced in many denominations by sunday and no one sees any connection?
---francis on 6/18/13


I don't see how there can be. How could there ever be a way to keep people from buying and selling on a global basis based on which day of the week you corporately worship God?

The mark of the beast has to be kept in context as a teaching and I don't see a way to make that idea match the context. Notice I don't say there isn't. But I'll say this I'm not convicted to be a Sabbath Keeper either.

Personally I believe the idea born of an acute paranoia emanating from a faulty doctrine to begin with. I don't believe Rome changed the Sabbath, I believe Jesus became it.
---Pharisee on 6/18/13


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