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What Is A Maybe Gospel

I'm what you might call a soul winner, I'm wondering how in the world you can preach a maybe gospel to people (maybe God loves you maybe he hates you) as an active witness. I can't wrap my mind around what you say to people. The only conclusion I've drawn is that you don't witness. Am I wrong?

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 ---Pharisee on 6/21/13
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For whosoever shall do the (will of God), the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just, (because I seek not mine own will), but the (will of the Father) which hath sent me.

And this is the (Father's will which hath sent me), that of all (which he hath given me) I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


To all the programmed robots, which see this is not your choice!
But the Father's will who chose you out of the world before the foundations of it.
It's not everyone who can understand or see this.
They will!
Peace
---TheSeg on 6/27/13


There's no choice.
---christan on 6/26/13

If this is truth then the entirety of creation is an exercise in futility, and the God you adore could have spared everyone a lot of heartache and just created the ones he wanted and not the ones he didn't want, you love to talk about how God's purposes can't be thwarted but you have missed the fact that your doctrine teaches that God defeated his own purpose to begin with by creating people and angels to get in his way and oppose him.

I'm intrigued do tell the cause and for what he needs this carnage? Was God Bored? He's going to expel evil, why did he put it here if he's going to expel it? Surely thou hast known the cause? Please expound these answers in your great wisdom.
---Pharisee on 6/27/13


francis, you say,
"Take my word for it because I cannot take yours"
How can I take your word for it when you do not even believe Jesus is God? Your word means nothing. You believe He is Michael the archangel. Now you believe a lost person, a slave of unrighteousness, dead in sin, has the ability in and of himself to change his own heart, open his own eyes and ears to God by making himself spiritually alive to Christ. But you are wrong God has to make you alive to Christ, man of his own free will cannot make himself alive to Christ. The very reason you promote the letter of the Law over the Spirit of the Law. You must think that if you keep the Saturday Sabbath enough times, you will be allowed into the Kingdom of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/27/13


Verse 12 is merely a declaration... ---christian

Nosiree, the declaration is verse 13, that's when something of substance is spoken, verse 12 say "listen to me" and I'll add for no particular reason, 'I just wanted to gloat about the salvation you cannot have in verse 13 and call you names for being what I made you to be' because I created you to hate you, because I'm not really God, just christian's little sock puppet psychopath god.

"listen to me" is no longer a command and because christian says so, that's all we need to understand, so next time someone says that don't listen to them.

OK scratch that, let's just not listen to christian instead, at least not till he stops impersonating a bible teacher.
---Pharisee on 6/27/13


Christan, you believe reprobates are created as reprobates for destruction, without opportunity to avoid this fate, as choice does not exist. How unjust this god is.

If we are controlled by God then the saved and unsaved are helpless robots. What an frightful gospel you believe.

Again you quote Isaiah 46:11, again ignoring verse 12 "Listen to me, you stubborn of heart....." If you are correct their stubbornness was wired-in by God. How can God then complain about their stubbornness? But this is not so as we all have a choice. We see people choose to destroy themselves physically via toxic diet, drug addiction etc despite the health message having been 'preached' for decades.
---Warwick on 6/27/13




Pharisee: Forgive the intrusion, but I can't help weighing in on Markie's "If you knew what I knew" comment.

MarkV has shown himself to be a liar, a slanderer and a plagiarist on CN, so his opinion on anything is suspect. I would think that if you or I were to "know" what he knows, we would have to drop 80 IQ points.



---jerry6593 on 6/27/13


Pharisee, God is in the business of saving souls. If you had read the Bible, you would know that when the word of God speaks to believers he calls them beloveth. If He loved the wicked, they would not be going to hell. God loved His creation, He loved what He created. You cannot give the gospel without giving the person the whole Truth. And even when you give the whole truth, it does not always bring anyone to Christ. The word has to come to a person in power, and in the Holy Spirit otherwise it saves no one, God makes that decision not you.
(1 Thess. 1:4,5).
"Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance.."
---Mark_V. on 6/27/13


Warwick, Isaiah 46:11 declares that God controls everything and everyone, including you and I - does that make us robots? Far be from it!

Verse 12 is merely a declaration, "Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted, Who are far from righteousness", it doesn't support freewill, it's not even a command but a declaration. Therefore the "stubborn hearted" is because God has hardened their hearts, like He hardened the heart of Pharaoh, remember?

Isaiah 46:11 confirms what it says as shown in the lives of Pharaoh and the reprobates God created and moved them to crucify His Son as declared in Acts 4:27,28.

Reprobates are created for destruction, never to believe in God's words, period. There's no choice.
---christan on 6/26/13


1st_cliff:

You asked: Can fire really affect something as intangible as a human soul

It can be naive and erroneous to take every word of the Bible literally (for example, if Jesus was literally a vine, why didn't he make furniture or wine out of himself?)

Similarly, it is possible to use thermodynamics to prove that heaven is hotter than hell (i.e. based on the light brighter than the sun vs. the boiling point of brimstone, etc.) - if one takes such descriptions too literally. People in the Bible understood the limits of slavishly literal interpretation. Unfortunately, many people today choke on that particular gnat.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/13


if you knew what I knew...

Look guy, I've known what you've known for years, I've heard all the drivel you spout for years and from people more eloquent than yourself and it was just as much a pile of rubbish when they presented it better than you do.

Take my word for it because I cannot take yours (because I already have the truth) your the one who lacks understanding, your the one who is not taught of the Holy Spirit, your the one who is twisting the verses of the Bible to mean something other than what they do, as long as you hold your heretical position of accepting only half of the truth we will not agree.
---Pharisee on 6/26/13




Christan, I wrote "being sentient beings, not robots, we choose." You replied "If you think you're a robot, good for you." Either you haven't read what I wrote, or haven't comprehended, or are playing with the truth.

You quote Isaiah 46:11 as though it supports your case. How? Read on to vs.12 "Listen to me, you stubborn of heart, you who are far from righteousness." The Lord appeals to the "stubborn-hearted" those who choose not to believe. People are not programmed to choose or reject.

In one line you speak of "unbelieving reprobates" (unbelieving by choice-exercising freewill) then say "freewill is nothing but a lie," a contradiction in terms!
---Warwick on 6/26/13


Pharisee, if you knew what I knew, you would also believe that a person lost without faith cannot choose Christ. No matter how much you believe in free will, you will never get it. Most of you talk as if salvation depended on you and not God. What kind of faith is that?
Eph 2:1-10 tells us that the lost are under the power of the prince of the power of the air. They are children of wrath. Doing the desires of their father (John 8:44), and what you are saying is that men in that condition can make himself spiritually alive to Christ by his own free will, give himself faith, and all this while lost, and choose Christ. That is shear nonsense. Why do you think Jesus said, that salvation by men was not possible? (Matt. 19:26).
---Mark_V. on 6/26/13


Warwick, don't take my words for what it's worth, that's because what I've said are merely the Words of the Scriptures.

"Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I HAVE SPOKEN IT, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS, I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT." Isaiah 46:11

If you think you're a robot, good for you. That's because God doesn't send robots to hell but unbelieving reprobates He has created. What has been shown to you above is simply this, freewill is nothing but a lie and deception, period.

Even the "ravenous bird" purpose on earth is of God. Awesome God I worship, isn't it? How about you? I forgot, you mock at this God I worship.
---christan on 6/25/13


"Leon, Can fire really affect something as intangible as a human soul ? (just supposin' that that it survives the body at death)It would need a central nervous system to feel pain!
If you stood beside the coroner when he performs the post-mortem you would see that all the nervous system is still there!"
---1st_cliff on 6/25/13


Cliff: That's a question for God! What if there's a kind of fire, unknown to man, that can do just that? You're looking at it from the perspective of a merely mortal man. I'm sure there are mysteries & wonders, privy only to God, that would blow our currently limited minds.
---Leon on 6/25/13


Leon, Can fire really affect something as intangible as a human soul ? (just supposin' that that it survives the body at death)It would need a central nervous system to feel pain!
If you stood beside the coroner when he performs the post-mortem you would see that all the nervous system is still there!
---1st_cliff on 6/25/13


James, you ask "is there even one saying anyone chooses to believe the gospel??" For just 1 example see Acts 12:14-40: Peter preaches, his listeners were "cut to the heart" and asked "what shall we do." Peter replied "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,..."

Verse 41 "So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls."

Likewise in 2 Chronicles God asks His people to repent and be saved-a choice for them to make: heaven or hell.

In Matthew 23:37 the Lord echoes the call of 2 Chronicles but again "they would not" by their freewill they chose not.
---Warwick on 6/25/13


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"Leon' You're getting yourself all mixed up in a tangle!...The lake of fire is metaphorical of complete destruction...Get it now???"
---1st_cliff on 6/24/13


Cliff: Wherein the spirit man/soul (will, emotion & intellect = mind) does inhabit one's physical brain, the relationship of mind & brain is like a hand in a glove. Damage the glove in any way & the hand will still occupy the space, but won't be able to function as efficiently in the damaged area of the glove.

One of us doesn't get it. From where I sit, you come to "mind"! You think the Lake of Fire is complete destruction. I believe it's a firey place of punitive reclamation.

I enjoy our exchanges of ideas bud! :)
---Leon on 6/25/13


"My People assumes they are believers already."

No, and now WORSE for the predestination crowd's argument, it DECLARES they are elect! Believers don't need to repent because belief determines behavior. Wait, the elect can be LOST??? Oh now your waking up a bit aren't you, hopefully that'll change some of your attitudes as well but I'm not holding my breath.

Jesus said it twice in John's gospel that he would "draw all men to himself" God is in the business of calling every person to salvation and look at what Peter says, "make your calling and election sure." WHAT? WAKE UP, God cannot call us to love all people without dissimulation if he's not doing that very thing first.
---Pharisee on 6/25/13


What you believe defies "the whole of scripture" and is only true to a small portion of it. It all has to harmonize or the document as a whole is not worth the paper it's printed on. You know what's great, is that I with the guidance of God's Spirit believe the scriptures you like to use to fashion your doctrine and they fit when laced in proper context, the same can't be said of what you believe.
Pharisee

This whole statement, really just tickles me, not as if I never heard it before!

Gen_1:31 And God saw (everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.) And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Peace
---TheSeg on 6/25/13


"If you could see the whole of Scripture you would understand"

What you believe defies "the whole of scripture" and is only true to a small portion of it. It all has to harmonize or the document as a whole is not worth the paper it's printed on. You know what's great, is that I with the guidance of God's Spirit believe the scriptures you like to use to fashion your doctrine and they fit when laced in proper context, the same can't be said of what you believe.

I've read through much of the Bible and reconstructed the way your mind thinks according to the nonsense you believe, what I found myself doing is denying the reality of what the words of God plainly say. Conclusion- Your the one who doesn't get it.
---Pharisee on 6/25/13


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\\ 2 Chronicles 7:14 ... "If my people who are caed by my name..." \\
---Warwick

Considering that saving faith consists of believing a promise, why don't you provide a passage of scripture which says that a man must choose to believe ??

There is a huge difference between an unbeliever supposedly choosing to believe, and a believer choosing to obey.

My People assumes they are believers already.


Matthew 23:37 "...you would not!" Choice. \\
---Warwick

There is a GIGANTIC difference between negative and positive.

Many scriptures agree that one can reject God and His promise. But is there even one saying anyone chooses to believe the gospel ??

Nope.
---James_L on 6/25/13


Christan, being sentient beings, not robots, we choose. God does not force His gift upon anyone. If He did the gift is no longer a gift. 2 Chronicles 7:14 shows man either accepts or rejects God's offer. "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land." Many, who saw Jesus' many miracles, none the less rejected Him!

Matthew 23:37 Jesus said "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" Choice.
---Warwick on 6/25/13


Pharisee, If you could see the whole of Scripture you would understand, but you don't.
What is happening today is the unfolding of the Covenant of Redemption.
First, the plan was made between the Persons of the Trinity, and not as in covenants God made with humans. The Father gave to His Son those whom He chose to save and required Him to accomplish their salvation through His obedient life and atoning death as the second Adam. And the Father promised the Son a reward on the completion of His work. The Son accepted the Father's gift, agreed to the conditions of this covenant, and submitted Himself to the Father's will. The Holy Spirit promised to apply the benefits earned by the Son to the elect and unite them with the Son forever.
---Mark_V. on 6/25/13


"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil"

"The Children" Not all Children, these children being spoken of, Jacob and Esau, and WHY did God pick one over the other?

Sure God elects some but it's only according to what he has purposed in advanced, (in this case the promise to Abraham is being upheld) but that should not now be painted out as widely as we can to say that it's the only way God operates, this is a historical commentary on the workings of God according to election and NOT a doctrinal statement on how God deals with all of creation.

Does God stack the deck to make sure what he has purposed comes to pass??? YES, but that's all this chapter is about.
---Pharisee on 6/25/13


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"if was God's desire not for any to perish - none will perish!"

It's stated plainly in scripture, even that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and yet you won't believe God really "so loved the WORLD" and why? BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HIM!

God has choice yes? Were made in his image yes? Since he doesn't have a body we can dirtcan that we physically look like God. Not what's being said, so there is an invisible image that God gave to mankind, it's a spiritual image, ONE THAT HAS CHOICE, and not a programed robot, if you say the latter is true what are you saying of God, and who is it pulling HIS puppet strings?
---Pharisee on 6/25/13


A gorilla God or as I like to call him, JUST God!

Poor kids, not even born!
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Here God telling you!
And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
I guess so, because this is exactly what you are saying, if he does this! He is a Gorilla!
Yet ever so clearly God said this I do!

Peace
---TheSeg on 6/24/13


Warwck, sadly the "principles" you described are yours and not God's. Here's why, if was God's desire not for any to perish - none will perish! Yet there are multitudes who have perished and are going to perish. What kind of promise is it of an Almighty God whose desires for "all" to be saved and multitudes end up in hell? Sounds like God's a failure, isn't it? Far be from it!

The desire of God to "save all" is then simply with regards to only those whom He has elected before the foundations of the world. And that's confirmed by His Son, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

That's the context of 2 Peter 3.
---christan on 6/24/13


Christan, notwithstanding what you wrote there are principles there-God does not desire any should perish.

John 3:14-18 says Jesus will die so "everyone who believes in him will not perish", that Jesus was given for the world because of God's love, "whoever believes in him will not perish...", he didn't come to "condemn the world", came to "save the world." This terminology is inclusive, not exclusive, there is no suggestion of a pre-ordained elect, programmed to believe, but an offer open to "anyone who believes." That salvation is via belief is said repeatedly. Belief is free choice or it isn't belief.

You promote an ogre running a fixed 'lottery.'
---Warwick on 6/24/13


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Leon' You're getting yourself all mixed up in a tangle!
Your emotion and intellect exists in your brain, else dementia/alzheimers etc would not affect you if the soul was a separate part of the person! Your spirit is your life breath(pneuma) and personality!
The lake of fire is metaphorical of complete destruction , hence no need for a 2nd soul! Get it now???
---1st_cliff on 6/24/13


How do you know you are not elected to be lost?" Because I have a true love for Christ, no one lost has a true love for Christ (1 John 4:19)
---Mark_V. on 6/24/13

How do you know that you have true love for christ?
---francis on 6/24/13


Blogger: Please tell me, in us humans where does one's will, emotions & intellect exist? Is a soul just a physical brain attribute/application or is it spirit? Isn't breath also spirit?

If what you say about the soul is true, then that would also mean "lost souls" (as Jesus referenced), condemned to the Lake of Fire, will also have new souls? So, they'll have "two" souls? That's the only way they could possibly know enough to respond to the Lord about their prior works in life if their new soul couldn't possibly have any knowledge (cognition, recollection) of it?
---Leon on 6/24/13


"...many of the bloggers...no concept of what SOUL means...When a living [breathing] creature dies their soul is dead, the soul goes nowhere. At the...resurrection you become a soul again because you are breathing...again."
---Blogger on 6/21/13


You say at death the soul dies & at the resurrection the former body of a man becomes a living creature again. So, the new body has a "new soul" because the old soul is dead? How does that square with what Jesus taught about losing one's soul? What about the parable Jesus taught about Lazarus & the rich man in hell? Also, please explain your belief in context to what Paul said about being absent from the body & present with the Lord. Thx!
---Leon on 6/24/13


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Elder, don't feel sorry for me. I'm in the hands of the Lord. You say,
"Mark, if no one knows who the Elect are how come folks like you claim to be elect?" No one knows who is of the elect. I don't know if you are one. I know I am saved, so I must be one of the elect, since only the elect come to the Truth.
You say, " How do you know you are not elected to be lost?" Because I have a true love for Christ, no one lost has a true love for Christ (1 John 4:19)
"We love Him because He first loved us" I know because the Spirit speaks to my spirit that I am a child of God. Yet, I don't know if your saved or not. I cannot speak for you, only you can say if you have a true love for Christ.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/13


Mark, if no one knows who the Elect are how come folks like you claim to be elect? How do you know you are not elected to be lost?

"Maybe God loves you or He doesn't it's His business."
Catherine
If you or anyone can't tell if God loves you, you are really tricked and confused. I feel sorrow for people like you.
Love and blessing are two different things. Too bad you don't understand that.
Yet this is typical of those who claim God forces Himself on people.
---Elder on 6/24/13


Warwick, read 2 Peter 3 in proper context. Peter does not talk about salvation being an "offer" to sinners. This is the context of 2 Peter 3:

v1-v7 admonishment to the Christians with regards to scoffers of the Word and a gentle reminder of the God they worship.

v8,v9 speaks of the faithfulness of God to save all of His elect from His judgement of the world when He returns.

v10-v12 the prophesy of the Day of the Lord (Judgement Day).

v13-v18 the final admonishment to God's elect to stay strong in their faith and the promises of God of eternal life in Christ.

And you free-willers have the audacity to accuse believers of election in taking verses out of context?
---christan on 6/24/13


"They are born in sin, condemned because of Adam."

Not what Ezekiel 18:20 says, and moreover not the cause of condemnation to hell Jesus spake in John 3:19.

Your doctrine is fundamentally flawed, if man knowing good and evil (the fall of man) is damnable sin even the Lord Jesus was a sinner! Gal 5:4

The condemnation to hell is not because of the fall but is the result of it, the fall brings condemnation to death but the sin we grow up to and choose is what condemns and is directly related to the fall, the two are NOT the same even though directly related. Adam and Eve's sin was forgiven or God would have killed them on the spot.
---Pharisee on 6/24/13


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Only for the elect.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/13

If your idea of the elect is God deciding who can get saved and who can't your idea is not correct, illustrations like this were given (Rom 9 with Esau for example) but they were given in the context of matters of God's sovereignty being operational on those who were chosen (Israel) that his election of them might stand.

You say you have the truth but your putting God in a box and saying he can only operate a certain way, NO, God is greater than that, and much of the gospel message agrees to say otherwise. You only understand part of how God works and your denying the rest.
---Pharisee on 6/24/13


If you belong to Christ you are a witness. God lives in you. Maybe God loves you or He doesn't it's His business. "He blesses whom He wants to bless and He curses those whom He deems fit to curse. MAYBE! I do not have to be pretentious I know I'm saved.
---Catherine on 6/24/13


Peter, 2 Peter 3:9 reads "not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." The word 'wishing' is a translation of the Greek 'boulomai' which means to wish, to will, to desire, to choose, to determine, to plan. Whatever way you look at it Peter is saying that God does not wish, will, desire, choose, determine or plan that anyone should perish but that everyone should come to saving repentance.

If God has created people foreknowing that they have no choice but are destined only for hell then He is an ogre, and God is not ogre, just the opposite "he is patient not desiring/planning that any should perish.
---Warwick on 6/24/13


Elder, You say,
"If predestation was true there would be no need to witness/share the Gospel with anyone." The elect were only chosen to be saved. They are born in sin, condemned because of Adam. They need to hear the gospel like everyone else. No one knows who the elect are, the reason we witness to all the Truth of the Gospel. And when we do, only the elect will believe and come to Christ.
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance.." (1 Thess. 1:4,5).
The reason we push for predestination is because only we know and understand the election of God.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/13


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Pharisee, you say,
"Others come willingly, I meet them all the time and they receive me, so I am sure that they receive he who sent me." Those that come willingly, is because God made them willing by His power. Without God's power and Holy Spirit they will never come no matter how many times you give them the Word, the gospel Truth.
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in Word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance.." (1 Thess. 1:4,5). The gospel might come in power or it might not.
You say, "The Gospel is what it is to fill up the measure of God's glory according to the riches of his grace." Only for the elect.
---Mark_V. on 6/24/13


StrongAxe, you flatter yourself that the saved depends on what you bring forth to them. Jesus declared, "Many are called but few are chosen". Salvation is the power of God and not man. But do I stop at witnessing the Truth?

What's Truth? Just say only the "nice things" and leave out the bad? Ya right! To appreciate the good news, you first need to hear the bad news, understand? As for you, you just simply want to hide the bad news in the ground. You're just like the servant in the parable of the talents/minas.

To which Christ will say unto you on judgement day, "Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed"
---christan on 6/23/13


This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

They did not hear it's everyone before him!
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

But some believe they are righteous before God.
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
---TheSeg on 6/23/13


Is this your Christ?
---christan on 6/23/13

That's exactly my Christ. I'm glad you asked. I didn't want to know Jesus and hated him. God revealed himself to me repeatedly.

In your haste to dismiss me you missed What you couldn't know, that my salvation experience matches your doctrine. Getting to the point, there is more to our Father's grace then the things you understand. The things you say are correct, but in saying that this is all there is to the story (predestination) you fail to discern just how God is working and would have everyone to come.

Certain are chosen and elect, I know this because I am, I literally had no choice, God made me believe. Were his children and he desires us to do his works. Do you see?
---Pharisee on 6/23/13


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"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

YES TRUE, NOW get a bigger view of God and enter his joy...

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

christian if you could only see, God made mankind in his image. What does God look like? He's Spirit :) Humanity is gifted with the spiritual nature of God which includes choice. predestination true? YES, free will true? YES. God is bigger than what you have understood of him.
---Pharisee on 6/23/13


Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. John 13:20

The gospel is so grand, we've been imbued with the very promise and sovereignty of Christ. Sent? Oh God knew that no other way would I come except I were shanghaied and captured. He also knew that no other way would I go unless I were sent. This is to my shame. Others come willingly, I meet them all the time and they receive me, so I am sure that they receive he who sent me. The Gospel is what it is to fill up the measure of God's glory according to the riches of his grace. there is room for literally everyone.
---Pharisee on 6/23/13


Warwick: "He is not willing that any should perish."

It would be more pleasant if that were the case. But what do you mean by 'willing'.

If you mean that none WILL perish, that must not be the case, at least in the case of some like Judas

Of course God wants people to be saved, but I am not sure what you mean in your post?
---Peter9556 on 6/23/13


\\ I always think it more consistent with the loving nature of God .... Is it not that He who knows the end from the beginning foreknew who would accept His free gift of salvation?
---Warwick on 6/23/13

I have to disagree with the premise. You arrived at your conclusion through philosophical meandering rather than a contextual understanding of what it means to be predestined, and for what.

IF predestination were in the context of salvation from hell, then you have pitted God against Himself, and chosen the nice God rather than the mean God.

That's only half of scripture, while Christan uses the other half

And Romans 8:29 says He foreknew the person, not a person's choice
---James_L on 6/23/13


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francis, like I've said earlier, you do not even believe that Christ is God, let alone that He was predestined to come into this world to save His people from their sins. Therefore, your line of question is in mocking the doctrine of predestination, not me.

This is what the Bible declares, "And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."

That is, your unbelief has been predestined according to Peter, that's why you cannot even believe that Christ is God. Whereas I'm a firm believer that Christ is indeed God and on top of this, I'm a firm believer of predestination. Does that answer your question?
---christan on 6/23/13


"Well, just as my saviour came to witness and testify the truth of the Father, no one but His people (the elect) could only hear."
christan
Man! What a lie!
If predestation was true there would be no need to witness/share the Gospel with anyone.
How come only the so called "predestened ones" push they are the elected to be saved?
Christian, maybe you are predestined to be lost.
What I see in the Bible is that all are predestined to Hell unless they call upon the name of the Lord.
---Elder on 6/23/13


Christan, how do you know that you were predestined to be saved?

I'll ask for Francis since I do believe Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

Do you have an answer to the question?
---JackB on 6/23/13


Christian,
Ok, I'll ask you. How do YOU KNOW you are one of the elect?
Did you become one of God's elect, or were you always one of the elect before you were ever born?
---kathr4453 on 6/23/13

Christian, my question to you remains: How do you know that you were predestined to be saved?
---francis on 6/22/13
---francis on 6/23/13


"I'm wondering (since my question is directed to people who believe as you do) do you witness your faith?" Pharisee

As ChristiaNet is my witness, since the very first day I entered into this site, that's what I've been doing. But do you hear? Well, just as my saviour came to witness and testify the truth of the Father, no one but His people (the elect) could only hear. With this truth, I'm comforted what my Jesus declared,

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Therefore, going to Him has nothing to do with me whatsoever but it's because the Father drew me, period. Is this your Christ?
---christan on 6/23/13


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Christian, my brothers and sisters in Christ are born again by the Spirit of God. We have free will to accept or deny Christ. We must rightly divide the Word of God. If you would get saved and pray for wisdom and God will show you truths of His Word.
---shira4368 on 6/23/13


StrongAxe, I agree with you that there is no appeal in a doctrine which says some were born only to be 'hell fodder.' It makes God an ogre. I always think it more consistent with the loving nature of God that "He is not willing that any should perish." How can He be unwilling that any should perish if He has already decided who will be saved, and who will not? Is it not that He who knows the end from the beginning foreknew who would accept His free gift of salvation?
---Warwick on 6/23/13


christan:

How can you reach anyone with a "gospel of predestination?".

"Hello. You need to give your life to Christ. Well, that is if he's already decided to save you. Otherwise, you're already damned anyway, and there's nothing you can do about it. Have a nice day".

Yeah, right. I'm sure that millions would come flocking to such an "encunraging" message. Yet I don't recall Jesus or Paul ever preaching such a message to yearning crowds.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/13


If what most see as Christianity is true, then why would anyone want to be saved.
We need the right Bible rightly divided presented with the right heart.

There are a lot of fakes that call themselves Christianity, but there is only one Biblical Christianity. It requires you rightly divide the word of truth. You need to find it out and be fully persuaded in your own mind (Rom 14:5).

The truth is that there will be a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to Pauls gospel (Rom 2:16). The Gospel, Christ died for your sins, was buried and resurrected from the dead (1 Cor 15:1-4) so that he could freely give you grace, righteousness, and eternal life is the gospel that saves.
---michael_e on 6/23/13


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Thank you Shirley.

To "christian"
Your immaturity is only surpassed by your contentiousness. I was only quoting scripture to you, I don't consider you a Brother either, and it has little to do with what we believe about salvation, but everything to do with the difference in Spirit by which we operate. Nonetheless it gives me no right to judge your motives, as do you not have the right to judge mine. "there is one law giver and judge..." and it aint you. That was the point BTW.

So... I'm wondering (since my question is directed to people who believe as you do) do you witness your faith? If I were to judge by what you've written it would be a NO since from the beginning you have not answered.
---Pharisee on 6/23/13


Brothers? You seriously believe we're brothers in Christ? Please do not deceive yourself, I'm not deceived. Do you really see the similarity of the Christ you and I have? I don't one bit.

The Christ we have is so far apart in terms of salvation that there's no in between whatsoever. I know for sure that the "free-willers" and those whom God has elected by grace in His Son are never in the same "basket" where those saved by grace will be found together. That's how convicted I am.

I will never use James 4:11 to apply to the "free-willers" for I know for sure they're not my brothers in Christ.
---christan on 6/22/13


Pharisee, keep telling the truth. Many here does not know truth. I have never heard you say one single word boasting of yourself.
---shira4368 on 6/23/13


Because I tell the truth I'm boasting? It's true you can tell the truth and be boastful about it, but how do YOU know? If your falsely accusing me are you not sinning?

Everyone else here has the wisdom to leave it to God, these people you call fools on another blog seem to be wiser than you are.

If your enjoying yourself please don't stop, it's kind of cool having my own personal heckler.

Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
James 4:11
---Pharisee on 6/22/13


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"For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me, yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel!" 1 Corinthians 9:16

My, my, compare the apostle Paul to you, wow! What a stark contrast.

"what I'm saying in this is that I'm a prolific witness, my salvation has been marked this way since day one. It's who I was remade to be. I'm not trying to say something great about me, the point I'm making is that I couldn't do what I do if I had a maybe gospel. I compare it to a boxer with one arm. He ain't gonna win." Pharisee

"The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile. Therefore let no one boast in men." 1 Corinthians 3:20,21
---christan on 6/22/13


Hence the word "might" aka, what I'm saying in this is that I'm a prolific witness, my salvation has been marked this way since day one. It's who I was remade to be. I'm not trying to say something great about me, the point I'm making is that I couldn't do what I do if I had a maybe gospel. I compare it to a boxer with one arm. He ain't gonna win.
---Pharisee on 6/22/13


pharisee,

there is no such thing as a "soul-winner". Even Jesus never claimed that.

Jesus ia a soul reaper or a soul-shepherd. he will harvest when time is right and those of his he calls and they follow.

it's not like Jesus is standing at one end and satan is standing at the other end and both are desperately trying to convince the sheep and dogs to come to each of them.

whoever they follow, they follow.
---aka on 6/22/13


Proverbs 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and he that winneth souls is wise.

Proverbs 14:25 A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.
---scripture on 6/21/13


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In New Testament usage it is simply the state of being alive and breathing air. When a living creature dies their soul is dead, the soul goes nowhere. At the time of the one and only resurrection you become a soul again because you are a breathing living creature again.---Blogger on 6/21/13

Not in my New Testament.
Jesus said His Father is the God of the Living not the DEAD.
Matthew 22:31-32

Are you saying Jesus is wrong?
Please explain
---Nikki on 6/22/13


Pharisee: Great Post!

I also have difficulty reconciling the concept of a loving Heavenly Father with that of a cruel tyrant who creates the vast majority of His "children" for the sole purpose of torturing them with fire.

I have found that the most successful form of witnessing is that which Christ commanded of the demoniac: Go and tell what Christ has done for you.


---jerry6593 on 6/22/13


Boy, you're sure full (fool) of yourself! You can't even save your own soul and you dare declare yourself to be a "soul winner"?!

"Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29, "...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48, "...for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8

Trying to steal God's glory isn't advisable...
---christan on 6/21/13


Well, there's one big problem regarding the maybes. God does not do maybes, He always is and always was a definite. He's not a wish-washed bipolar God and He does not have favorites, He says He loves everyone, and God does not lie.
---A_servant on 6/21/13


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The problem is that many of the bloggers on ChristiaNet have no concept of what SOUL means In Old Testament usage it simply means any living creature that breathes air and is capable of locomotion. In New Testament usage it is simply the state of being alive and breathing air. When a living creature dies their soul is dead, the soul goes nowhere. At the time of the one and only resurrection you become a soul again because you are a breathing living creature again.
---Blogger on 6/21/13


Cliff are you asking me if I am sure of the gospel? If I wasn't I would sit and never testify. The gospel is the only thing I'm sure of because through it I was brought to reconciliation with God.

You don't know my story I hated Christ and all his followers and even the mention of his name. God showed his power to me in the name of Jesus Christ. No maybes anymore for me, I couldn't not believe even if I tried, I've seen to much!
---Pharisee on 6/21/13


Pharisee, The opposite of maybe is definitely.
Are you sure you have everything (truth) down pat?
If not, it's a maybe!
All denominations are winning souls, some from each other.
I witness what I know, it may not be 100% correct, so it's a maybe???
---1st_cliff on 6/21/13


I once knew a woman who would always say she was going to heaven even though she was married to one man and sleeping with another one. I thought it was best just to tell her yes, you will go to heaven when your life lines up with the Bible. She did get saved,became a pastors wife and stayed true until he died. I think just keep it simple but honest and with the Word complete,when we share God's way and will.
---Darlene_1 on 6/21/13


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haha cluny

I left the definition open for debate, not what I am. I know who God made me to be and I love it, and who praytel do you think souls get won to? Me, Godzilla, Alfred E. Newman, or God?

I want to encourage everyone to be active sharing your faith, it may seem like people who'll talk to anyone anytime anywhere are fearless, let me assure you even after years of reaching out to everyone that I can I still have some trepidation at times. the power is in the gospel (Rom 1:16) so just give em that. A smile helps too!
---Pharisee on 6/21/13


From a predestination (reformed) viewpoint, only those that respond to the gospel are of the elect. Thus those that do not respond to the gospel are not elect or have not received the HS speaking of the gospel. So you do preach the gospel actively and with boldness and wisdom "but salvation is of the Lord's." Which allows comfort to christians in that we are only a small method of transporting the gospel and get to work with Daddy in doing his work. Because we can screw up the presentation but we have the HS working at all times to speak to the individual through many people, places, thoughts, etc.
---Scott1 on 6/21/13


"Maybe good news", in my mind, isn't good news at all since it opposes the "definite" Good News (Gospel) of Jesus Christ. No one can bank on maybe, so it's impossible to effectively witness that kind of doubtful, 50-50 gospel & win souls.

That's my take in the matter.
God question! :)
---Leon on 6/21/13


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