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Is Predestination Biblical

Is Predestination taught in the Bible? Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 7/1/13
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A_servant on 7/5/13

Exodus 12:17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread,... by an ordinance for ever.

Exodus 12:43 This is the ordinance of the passover:

2 Chronicles 35:13 And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance:

Now all these ordinances were nailed to the cross
Those ordinances are procedures for running the sanctuary
How the priest must dress
how to sacrifice
what to do with the blood
How to organize the feasts

See there is a difference in the bible
2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment,

I need for you to know these things for yourself
---francis on 7/5/13


Francis, that gospel of the Lord was never presented to other nations. Only the nation of Israel.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/13
I already answered that with a list, and a scripture
NEXT



---A_servant on 7/5/13
ORDINANCE a prescribed usage, practice, or ceremony

ordinaces Of God in the bible have to do with procedural codes: How to properly sacrifice, how to properly conduct the sanctuary

2 Chronicles 35: 13 And they roasted the passover with fire according to the ordinance

2 Chronicles 8:14 In keeping with the ordinance of his father David, he appointed the divisions of
the priests for their duties, and the Levites to lead the praise and to assist ...
---francis on 7/5/13


Francis, that gospel of the Lord was never presented to other nations. Only the nation of Israel. All those nations had no way to be save.
---Mark_V. on 7/5/13

WRONG, Abel, Enoch, Noah Job and so on, SACRIFICE and faith was established right from the get go, long before the Law was given to Moses. There was no established LAW either when the Passover took place WITH BLOOD. The scarlet thread in Rahab's window, also a type of blood, saved that whole family. HER FAITH not even converting to Israel at that time was counted to her for righteousness as Hebrews 11 so clearly states.

To say no one was saved before the Nation Israel was formed is not only NUTS, but AGAIN a Lie! God sent Jonah to a GENTILE nation, Nineveh.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/13


I am going to ignore the unclean food since that is not the topic here.

In Romans 1 and 2 Paul speaks of those who follow GOD in ignorance who will be saved.

Those surrounding Israel could know the way of Salvation for GOD said all nations will come to Israel which is being fulfilled today. Read Malachi.

Now the HOLY SPIRIT call all men everywhere to repent. Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Still no reply on verse like these. MarkV Christian you have not stepped up to say how these verse are wrong.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/5/13


Francis, that gospel of the Lord was never presented to other nations. Only the nation of Israel. All those nations had no way to be save. The individuals you mentioned that were Gentiles were saved, because they lived within Israel, they knew about the gospel. All other nations were kept from the gospel. When women and children died because of God, those people never had a chance to exercise their free will. If they had it, it meant nothing. What matters is what God wants, not what man want.
When the Holy Spirit guided Paul and others to preach the gospel, He prevented them from going to certain cities, those people died in their sins. They never got the gospel. What about their free will?
---Mark_V. on 7/5/13




Francis,
Ordinances means the law, He (Jesus) fulfilled and surpassed the old bindings such as the Sabbath, (observing a Holy Day) and eating swine and other meats, which was in the passage I gave you, but you singled out a verse out of context and tried to prove something that can't be defended if you simply read. The key point was verse 16, but I gave the surrounding verses to show I wasn't taking it and twisting its meaning.
---A_servant on 7/5/13


Christan://Where then does election says it is "accepted by the obedient one(s) to God/Jesus"? Was Paul obedient when he was saved by Christ on his way to Damascus?// In Acts 26: 14-19 you will find a recount by Apostle Paul telling us how the Lord called/saved him on his way to Damascus. Take particular note of verse 19, " Whereupon, O King Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision, "
---Adetunji on 7/5/13


Predestination comes from the Greek word "Proorizo", and means to limit in advance, to make a choice, to determine before hand, ....
The problem is God's people choosing not to believe what the scriptures teach.
---trey on 7/4/13

It is a problem or a chosen blindness. As in discussing the Elect. Found in prophecy to:
Isa_45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa_65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit, they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
---Trav on 7/5/13


"Election{only if you accept it} is by grace, it is not forced on you, it can be(is being) rejected by the disobedient(to God). Election is accepted by the obedient one(s) to God/Jesus." Adetunji

You have the Scriptures to support your claims? Funny, I have the Scripture that says otherwise and call out your claim as lies and blasphemy!

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth." Romans 9:11

Where then does election says it is "accepted by the obedient one(s) to God/Jesus"? Was Paul obedient when he was saved by Christ on his way to Damascus?
---christan on 7/5/13


NO! The biblical meaning of predestination incorporates two concepts - neither of which involves the a priori marking of individuals for either salvation or destruction. The first is God's "desire", "plan", "purpose", etc. for universal salvation, as:

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

The second concept is foreknowledge. God knows our future choices, but He doesn't direct them. WE HAVE FREE WILL!

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.



---jerry6593 on 7/5/13




14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,
---A_servant on 7/4/13
Please read the entire bible to find out what an ordinace is, also check you dictionary

please read hebrews 9-10 to find out what the shadows are

(let me ask you, what wuold swine be a shadow of, that coudl be fulfilled in anythng christ did?)

then crossreferecne with Leviticus 23
---francis on 7/5/13


Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
---francis on 7/4/13


Francis,

Please read Colossians, and you will see. Namely, Colossians 2:14-17

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
---A_servant on 7/4/13


// Christ died for everyone. That includes me and you and the whole world. ---shira4368 on 7/4/13//
So true, we either except it or reject it
---michael_e on 7/4/13


Francis you hit the nail on the head. Christ died for everyone. That includes me and you and the whole world.
---shira4368 on 7/4/13


Predestination comes from the Greek word "Proorizo", and means to limit in advance, to make a choice, to determine before hand, and it has reference to those individuals foreknown by God.
It is taught in scripture in:
Acts 4:28, Rom 8:29, Rom 8:30, 1st Cor 2:7, Eph 1:5, and 1:11.
In Acts 4:28 God limited in advance what would be done to his Son.
In Rom 8:29 we are told God made a choice that is elect would be conformed to the image of Christ.
etc.
There is not a problem with the doctrine. The problem is God's people choosing not to believe what the scriptures teach.
---trey on 7/4/13


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The Gentiles nations did not receive the oracles of God. The gospel Truth. There was no way those people could be saved, no matter how much free will you say everyone has.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/13

The Ethiopian treasurer
Ruth the Moabite
Bathsheba the Hittite
Rahab the Jericoholic
Jethro Moses' father in law
Nebuchadnezzar
Naaman
The Nethinims

Isaiah 56:7.
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people

So there was nothing preventing any gentile from being saved
---francis on 7/4/13


The Gentiles nations did not receive the oracles of God. The gospel Truth. There was no way those people could be saved, no matter how much free will you say everyone has.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/13

The Ethiopian treasurer
Ruth the Moabite
Bathsheba the Hittite
Rahab the Jericoholic
Jethro Moses' father in law
Nebuchadnezzar
Naaman
The Nethinims

Isaiah 56:7.
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people

So there was nothing preventing any gentile from being saved
---francis on 7/4/13


Mark V: "He is the Law."

Ahh, only a minor point, but, ahhh, where in the Bible does it say that? Or is that, once again, (yawn) the [demonically-inspired] Gospel according to MarkV?

Let me think, the only verse that comes "close" to Mark's ad hoc theology is John's "God is LOVE".
---Marc on 7/4/13


Love this verse you posted. Went back and read the chapter....from this verse.
---Trav on 7/3/13

i think this is one of the most pivotal chapters in the bible...of course...then...the one that is most overlooked.
---aka on 7/4/13


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Christan: //Anyways, how does freewill coincide with "election"?// Election{only if you accept it} is by grace, it is not forced on you, it can be(is being) rejected by the disobedient(to God). Election is accepted by the obedient one(s) to God/Jesus.
---Adetunji on 7/4/13


Marks, you keep saying Israel THE NATION. Can you show is where God said ALL ISraeL had to receive Jesus or NO JEW could BE SAVED UPON INDIVIDUAL PERSONAL FAITH? Yet you a Gentile, claim salvation, not based on any NATIONAL belief, Jew or Gentile .

Do you ever THINK or REASON with your own God Given mind what you say? Or would that be considered free will?

Calvin is not the Shepard you are to follow. So why do you?

Covenant Calvinism is not to individual faith, Jew or Gentile. He uses National Israel verses......group salvation group obedience, group consequences, ..... Not individual salvation in this age of grace.

You still use National ISRAEL verses to condemn everyone. BAD teaching.
---kathr4453 on 7/4/13


shira4368
I know we have free will to be saved. I also believe all mankind is predestined to be saved.


Ok
I know we have free will to be saved.
(We make the choice to be saved!)
I also believe all mankind is predestined to be saved.
(Established or prearranged, unalterably! This choice was made for you!)

How are you putting these together?
Please explain it to me.

If you are predestined by the will of God!
Established or prearranged, unalterably!!
There do you see a choice?
Come on now??
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/4/13


Shira, you say,
"seg, He came to His own and they received Him not is a strong word of rejection. the jews did have a choice. the gentiles has a choice too"
Shira, the nation of Israel was God's chosen nation. Only they received the oracles of God. The Gentiles nations did not receive the oracles of God. The gospel Truth. There was no way those people could be saved, no matter how much free will you say everyone has. They died in their sins. They also suffered the slaughter of God, woman and children. What about their free will? Nada. It meaned nothing.
Even within Israel, only those of the promise were saved. Those born of God. They were justified by faith, the gift of God. The rest continued on their path to hell.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/13


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I never said free will coincides with predestination. I know we have free will to be saved. I also believe all mankind is predestined to be save. Actually it does relate because we all have a choice. Luke 13:3 is ne verse. John 3:15 is another one.1st Corinthians 1:18 is another.
---shira4368 on 7/4/13


Anyways, how does freewill coincide with "election"?
---christan on 7/3/13

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

because we have the free will to make our calling sure, to accept or reject the salvation that has been given to us, for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

notice what this one says

Colossians 1:22 ( Christ will save you)If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard

What do you suppose happens IF you do not make you calling and election sure, or IF you do not continue in the gospel?
---francis on 7/4/13


shira4368
I believe all of you have a choice, you can either believe God has full power and absolute reign over you nor not. It's your choice, right? Who am I to say, you don't! I was simple talking about some others, Peace.

There are many whose wills are to believe they have some kind of power!
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet.
But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Clearly some will's, is to wait for the end.
Is It OK, if some don't wait?
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/4/13


Samuel, what do your complains have to do with predestination? The first one you say,
"As for the vision of the sheet with unclean animals. Notice Peter did not eat them." Peter had a vision Samuel, how can he eat a vision?
You gave the answer when you said, " Also in the next two chapters he explains what the vision means." Then say,
" Also Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep" This is not a vision. If a man has a sheep, who is more important? Think Samuel. The man. The sheep is an animal. If it was a metaphor, the man would be the Shepherd (God) and the sheep would be us (believers). He is more important then us.
---Mark_V. on 7/4/13


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Why? Very simple. The answer is in the same chapter, verse 3 - "According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue".christan//

Christan, I love this verse, as it also says in 2nd Peter 1...that we have become par takers of His Divine nature through His precious promises. But these verses are to those NOW SAVED, having nothing whatsoever to do with free will vs no free will.

It has to do with our sanctification, NOT our Justification. Do you know the difference between the two?
---kathr4453 on 7/3/13


---A_servant on 7/3/13
read and study more, stop listening to those false teachers

Here is the ONLY interpretation given for peter's vision
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

here is what Jesus said about " work" on the sabbath
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Now Jesus did not say not to keep the sabbath, that is a sin whether you admit it or not

he said it is lawful to do good deed, save lives, relieve pain on the sabbath
---francis on 7/3/13


seg, He came to His own and they received Him not is a strong word of rejection. the jews did have a choice. the gentiles has a choice too.
---shira4368 on 7/3/13


"If we have no free will, and God saves us whether we want to be saved r not, why then do WE (NOT GOD) need to make our calling and election sure?" francis

Why? Very simple. The answer is in the same chapter, verse 3 - "According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue".

So, did you receive your salvation and election by your own freewill or was it as Peter declared, "According as His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life..."

Anyways, how does freewill coincide with "election"?
---christan on 7/3/13


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I am still waiting to see where those who believe that GOD only loves some people can explain all the passages that says he love the whole world and does not want any to be lost. I have not seen any attempt to explain what the verses that explicit state these words mean.

Why was the rich young ruler lost when the bible says JESUS loved him?

As for the vision of the sheet with unclean animals. Notice Peter did not eat them. Also in the next two chapters he explains what the vision means. Also Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. How does doing right mean we should break a commandment?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/3/13


Francis, there is something to be said about us "swine eating non-Sabbath keeping persons"

If you read through the book of Acts, you will see Jesus's disciple Peter being shown in a vision by God that he has sanctified all meat for us to eat.

Secondly, Jesus did many works on the Sabbath, and transcended it. Basically, by His actions we are shown that it is okay to not observe the Sabbath as we did of old. We are to do works on the Sabbath if need be, and we are to observe the Lord's mercy every day, and not restrict it to one day of our week.

I give thanks to my God every day, often while eating bacon. If you claim to follow Jesus, then you should be believing His word, and through Him His disciples.
---A_servant on 7/3/13


If we have no free will, and God saves us whether we want to be saved r not, why then do WE (NOT GOD) need to make our calling and election sure?
francis

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
(nor of the will of man), but of God.

Nothing to do with your free-will!

Putting your hand on what God has done, will only defile it.
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands, as saith the prophet,
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/3/13


Gordon, nothing makes sense to you, because you and most of you have created a god to your liking. You have formed him as you think he should be. What you do not grasp is the Awesomeness of Almighty God. He sets the rules, He is the Law. What He says is sin, is sin, not what you say. He is always righteous even if you do not think He can be that.
No matter how much Truth is presented to you, you believe that God should be the way you set the rules. But you are but dirt in the eyes of God, filthy rages. That you live at all is because of God. He gives you life and can take it away from you whensoever He desires. You are the clay who complains, "why did you make me like this?"
---Mark_V. on 7/3/13


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---Adetunji on 7/3/13
dear Adetuji,
In my denomination everything we do is an act of worship
what we eat
how we dress
our work ethics
all are acts of worship because they follow what God teaches on these precepts

You cannot knowingly disregard any part of God's law and claim to be worshiping him

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey,

So tell me, whom are you serving when you disregard the commandment of God to keep the sabbath and keep sunday instead?

wait don't tell me, God already told me:

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 7/3/13


Dear Adetunji, God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 7/3/13


"You are of your father the devil and the desires of you father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand for the Truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks he speaks a lie... he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? "he who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God"

---Mark_V. on 7/3/13


Calvin's predestine doctrine is a lie, that murders souls before the God of Grace, a murderer from the beginning to the end and will greatly pay the consequences for that lie. He cannot hear or see or understand that Jesus died for the sin of the whole world.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/13


2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

If we have no free will, and God saves us whether we want to be saved r not, why then do WE ( NOT GOD) need to make our calling and election sure?
---francis on 7/3/13


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francis, what is eating pork have to do with this subject?
---shira4368 on 7/3/13


Do you think a swine eating, non Sabbath keeping person is really following Jesus?
francis
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

GIMME A BREAK
francis
Wed love to, But:
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Did not Moses give you the law, (and yet none of you keepeth the law?)
Why go ye about to kill me?



Clearly it is!
Rom_8:29-30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


HappyFourthOfJuly!
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/3/13


Marc, Well said!

CHRISTAN, As Marc explained, it does not make sense for a GOD Who HATES SIN to create all the Heavens and the Earth, and declare that all that HE made was "GOOD", and then, for HIM to turn right around and deliberately destroy it all with sin.

And, of course, you believe that HE created "only some souls" for Heaven and Salvation, so, with your kind of reasoning, you might say that GOD created all good, then He Himself brought sin into the World, but that's "okay" cause He was intending on saving only some special elect anyways, not ALL of mankind", which, YOU, of course, are one of those "elect ones", according to you.
---Gordon on 7/3/13


Dear Francis: John 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Worship of God is a 24/7 thing. I think your denom. over-flogs this Sabbath issue.
---Adetunji on 7/3/13


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Marc, I never say this to anyone but because you have said it and also to me, "Christan, your theology and soteriology is PAGAN and comes from the father of lies."

Marc, you deserve what you put out to others, what's in your heart comes out of your mouth.
"You are of your father the devil and the desires of you father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand for the Truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks he speaks a lie... he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? "he who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God"
---Mark_V. on 7/3/13


Isa 50:11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow.
---aka on 7/3/13

Pro 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

Aka....as your per you post, scripture does say it cleanly and thoroughly. Love this verse you posted. Went back and read the chapter....from this verse.
---Trav on 7/3/13


"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep" as I said to you, MY sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me,
---Mark_V. on 7/3/13

Do you think a swine eating, non sabbath keeping person is really following jesus?

GIMME A BREAK
---francis on 7/3/13


Elder says,
"God has predestined that those who obey the gospel will be saved"
Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."
Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,"

Nothing wrong with those passages, since only believers in Christ obey the Lord. Jesus said,
"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep" as I said to you, MY sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me, And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of MY hand"
---Mark_V. on 7/3/13


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Christan: God did not predestined or programmed man to sin. Satan invented sin. 1st level of punishment: Satan was banished to the earth. God made man to live in the same environment with the devil. God knew with the powers given to Satan, man would fall. God made provision thro' the LJChrist to raise men(multitude) who will make heaven even though Satan use all his given powers against them, but some will perish with Satan.
---Adetunji on 7/3/13


Christian: "[God foreordained] man MUST fall. Isn't God's plan awesome? This is the very God I worship."

So, a God who's all-powerful and all-loving decides man should sin in order to show His glory.

Why would God create a perfect earth at the beginning? To make sure death and misery came into the world, thus undoing His perfect world, all just to show His power and love?

Christian, your theology and soteriology is PAGAN and comes from the father of lies.
---Marc on 7/3/13


Scott1, talk about putting a spin on the context of (John 8:39).
The context of the passages is: The Jews claimed to be children of Abraham. The truth was that they were Abraham children of the flesh, not of the Promise. Their conduct proved that their father was the devil not God. If God were their Father they would love Christ, but they were out to kill Him. Jesus said they were not able to listen to His words (v.43) because their father was not God. Their father was the devil and they were doing the desires of their father. Then says (v.47) "He who is of God hears God's words, therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God"
All who don't hear the Lord are not of God.
---Mark_V. on 7/3/13


Yes, predestination is taught in the bible. However, there are some who have twisted some scriptures and ignored others to make their own (per)version.

Heb 12:25 See that you refuse not him that speaks. For if they escaped not who refused him that had spoken on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaks from heaven:

Isa 50:11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow.
---aka on 7/3/13


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"The predetermination of the Son's Crucifixion does not mean that GOD "meant" for mankind to fall into sin. It simply means that HE knew man would sin." Gordon

You understanding is illogical according to Scripture. Paul declared, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." That is, for God to demonstrate His mercy, He must predestined that everyone of man will come into this world in unbelief. Or how else does He get to demonstrate His mercy?

Based on Paul's testimony, God did not "know man would sin", He predestined they will sin.

"But our God is in the heavens: He hath done whatsoever He hath pleased." Psalm 115:3
---christan on 7/2/13


//child of satan,//
MarkV

In John 8:39 "If you were the Abraham's children you would be doing the works of Abraham" What this section is about is NOT some are cursed by God to be Satan's followers. You have to put it into context. Jesus was a bastard child without a biological father vs 19. Thus he became Jesus of Nazerath, like Leonardo de (of) Venice. The religious leaders insulted him because of this because of there self-righteousness (vs 32) of being son of Abraham. What was Abraham's work, faith in God, not faith in his geneology. Jesus returned the insult by calling them Son of Satan to show that 1. Abraham does not save. 2. That they did not place there trust in God
---Scott1 on 7/2/13


Christian, we are born in sin. man fell when adam and eve disobeyed God. of course man don't fall, man is that way already.
---shira4368 on 7/2/13


Christan, The predetermination of the Son's Crucifixion does not mean that GOD "meant" for mankind to fall into sin. It simply means that HE knew man would sin.
---Gordon on 7/2/13


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Biblical predestination is not only a doctrine.

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

Predestination, then, has to do with how God was before He created the universe. He was committed to conforming His children to be in the image of Jesus. This is included in our unconditional guarantee of our salvation.

And this has started now > how His love "in our hearts" (Romans 5:5) has already changed us so that "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) Not after we die, but "in this world."
---willie_c: on 7/2/13


Yes MarkV, predestination is taught in scripture, BUT your understanding of what was predestined is in question.

God did not predestine salvation of certain people, He predestined that we, the Church be conformed to His Image. This was not so in the OT, but is so concerning those saved in this age of Grace, or Church age.
---kathr4453 on 7/2/13


Christian, the ones who reject free will is not believing God gives all an opportunity to be saved. God does predestined us for salvation but he predestined all before the foundation of the world. Your belief that only a few are chosen for salvation is way way off target.why would there be missionaries, churches, preachers and just being a witness for Christ? I sure hate to see good people being deceived.
---shir4368 on 7/2/13


---Mark_V. on 7/2/13

NO, no free willer has ever said that on this blog that I am aware of. This is a WRONG VIEW of free will. There is a difference between your statements and someone rejecting God. God gives us the choice to choose him after he pours Himself on to us, which is what your verses prove, that is free will. We do not seek God, we are given the choice to surrender to God. Free does not mean lack of influence, it means responsible for.
---Scott1 on 7/2/13


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God did not create some people with the intent and purpose of burning them in hell with no chance of salvation.
---francis on 7/2/13


Marc, go check the English dictionary and tell us what it says about "predestination". That definition is the dictionary, not mine. Even then, it's so biblical!

"So, God foreordained Adam to sin and thus foreordained death and illness to affect everyone?"

"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:19,20

Now, if Christ was "foreordained" to save His people from their sins, guess what must first be foreordained? That man MUST fall, isn't it? You have a problem with that? Not I. Isn't God's plan awesome? This is the very God I worship.
---christan on 7/2/13


"God has predestined that those who obey the gospel will be saved
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,"
francis
Correct! But are those who reject/disobey the Lord predestined to do so or is it an act of the freewill of that person? I think it is freewill. What do you think?
What do you believe the first act of obedience is?
---Elder on 7/2/13


Before many of you holy Christains throw the devil and demons at me with your answers, I would like to ask a few questions.
1. God says, "There is no one who seeks after God" You say, not true, free willers seek God while lost.
2. You suggest, a person while lost, can create the love of Christ in his own heart. That the bible is wrong when it says, "We love Him because He first loved us" You say, "He loves you because you first loved Him."
3. God says, "There is no one who understands" You say, not true, all free willers understand while lost.
4. And suggest that a child of satan, can change his own nature with his free will and become a child of God all by himself.
---Mark_V. on 7/2/13


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Christan: From your last comment, it seems you are equating prophecies of events and the destination of each person in the after life. God does not want any to go to hell, HE has predestined us in Jesus(given scholarship) to go to heaven, but if any choose & end up with Satan: such has rejected God & will not enter paradise.
---Adetunji on 7/2/13


Christan said " God foreordains every event from eternity".

So, God foreordained Adam to sin and thus foreordained death and illness to affect everyone?
---Marc on 7/2/13


Dictionary explicitly defines "predestination" as "the act of God foreordaining every event from eternity". Even a secular book has but to bow down to God in explaining the word "predestination". What more of people who calls themselves Christian and reject this doctrine. These are even far wicked people than those who write the dictionary!

The greatest of all "predestination" is found in the coming Messiah, we know today as the Lord Jesus Christ. He was prophesied from the beginning after the fall to how He would come and die for the sins of His people (see Isaiah 53). And it all happened accordingly to the prophesies from God's prophets.

If that's not predestination, what is?
---christan on 7/1/13


PHARISEE - Man responsible for his condition of his own Heart.

Could you post verses you are using - And how -

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all thing's desperately wick: Who can know it.
Question , How can man change his own heart ?
Now there are verses in the Bible that say's God is going to do this,
Can man make his heart Pure ?
Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from
sin.

This is a subject am working on , looking for all points of view , Thank's
---RICHARDC on 7/1/13


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Gordon, Scott1, Pharisee, Francis & Catherine: YES, YES, YES, YES & YES!!! It probably can't be explained any plainer or clearer than what you five have stated. To constantly argue against Bible truth is to argue with one's own "self"!
---Leon on 7/1/13


here is your predestination right here:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.
---francis on 7/1/13


Predestination is based primarily on Romans 8:28-30....He predestinated, or before decreed, that they should be conformed to the image of His Son. THE CALLING: It is an effectual call, from self and earth to God, and Christ, and heaven, as out destination, from sin and vanity to grace and holiness, as our way. The truly saved are justified and glorified by God. THE WRATH OF GOD: Those who stand against the gospel call, abide under guilt and wrath. Also see Acts 4:28, 1 Cor. 2:7.
---Catherine on 7/1/13


Is Predestination taught in the Bible? Give Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 7/1/13
yes it is

God has predestined that those who obey the gospel will be saved

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,
---francis on 7/1/13


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It's true predestination is a Bible doctrine, absolute predestination of all things is not. Admittedly some language is written in a way that doesn't restrict it's application, but that doesn't automatically expand it to inexhaustible application. Scripture and reality inform us that it's not so.

God is not limited according to his foreknowledge: "God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

If we see nothing else from this we have to understand that man is responsible for the condition of his heart before God. If responsible then judged according to his response to the revelation of God,(John 3:19)Creation continues as it does for a reason,(1 Tim 2:4) man was created to know and love God.
---Pharisee on 7/1/13


Gordon will you permit me to add, that this choice is not without God speaking to the person (everyone), pursing the person , pleading for the person through the power of the Holy Spirit. yes, God does know who will reject him and who will accept him (Eph 1:5) but the idea of creating someone for damnation is not biblical. For IN LOVE God predestined us... It does not say in hate God predestined us to
---Scott1 on 7/1/13


There is mention of Predestination in EPHESIANS 1:5 and EPHESIANS 1:11

But it in no way infers that GOD creates people only for the sake of damning them for all Eternity.

The vessels-of-Wrath Verse of ROMANS 9:22 is completely taken out of context by those who pledge allegiance to that perverted version of the true Biblical kind of Predestination.

GOD's Desire (Will) is that all souls come to repentance, but HE gives each one a choice.

Once a person makes their choice GOD honours that by giving them exactly what they want.

If a person chooses to reject GOD and clings to their sin, GOD will honour their choice, and will also make use of that by showing all that HE will punish the wicked just as HE said HE would.
---Gordon on 7/1/13


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