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Beginning Of New Testament

Where does the New Testament (covenant) really begin?

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 ---Rober7995 on 7/11/13
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"I do believe in the Calvinistic system, that does not mean I believe in Calvin." Mark_V

Curiouser and curiouser.
---scott on 7/23/13


francis, I am 74 yrs old and my pastor is of the same beliefs as me and our other members. that is why I go where I go. you did give some good advice. my pastor has never mentioned the Sabbath that I can remember. he preaches salvation, hell and heaven and some doctrine. he is a master in word studies but I do plan on asking him the question of the Sabbath. everything my pastor preaches is biblical and he always shows scripture.
---shira4368 on 7/23/13


Shira, The Sabbath does not save, but it's GOD's Commandment.

If we love HIM, we will obey HIS Commands.


So, is Sunday the seventh-day of the week then?

GOD said that the "seventh-day" is the Sabbath Day for HIS people. EXODUS 20:8-11.

GOD specifically said that the seventh day is the Sabbath.

HE did not say the first day of the week is Sabbath.

Sunday is the first day of the week.

Saturday is the seventh day.

Regardless, you say Sunday is your Sabbath. Do you cease from all work on that day? Do you refrain from buying and selling on that day? Do you cease doing your own thing on Sunday?
---Gordon on 7/23/13


All of you Sabbathers accuse others of been law breakers with your Saturday Sabbath, when you yourselves are law breakers your whole lives. For no one but Jesus kept the Law perfect.
"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scriptures You shall love your neighbor as youself, you do well, "but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the Law as transgressors" For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." (James 2:8-10).
So whoever is without sin, throw the first stone. I would guess many of you still would, because most of you believe you are without sin, no log in your eyes. But all of you are transgressors of the Law.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/13


Shira, you are 65 years old. You have been at your church serving faithfuly for years. You deserve some honesty from your Pastor.

Set some time aside to speak with your pastor privately. You have earned that time and respect.

Ask your pastor to be honest with you and tell you which day (sunday through saturday) which day is the 7th, and whivh day does the BIBLE say is the sabbath.

For your years of dedication to the faith you deserve the truth.

Do it privately
---francis on 7/22/13




Well if you really want to know the Seventh day then you just to know a little history. The Roman Catholic Church stated for centuries that it changed the Sabbath from the Seventh day to the first day of the week. Sunday is the first day of the week according to the Roman Catholic church.

That is backed up by the Jewish people all over the world who keep the Seventh day of the week.

I guess if you do not think GOD means what he says then you have that right. But it sounds like a pretty bad argument to me to say to GOD that I did not feel like doing what you say.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/22/13


Gordon on 7/22/13
Also no bible verse says Gabrael the arch angel or none says that Lucifer is an arch angel

Gabrael is a covering cherub
Luke 1:19 I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God

Lucifer was a covering cherub
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,.. and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

here is how it works:
message comes from God to his lead ( CHIEF) messenger: Jesus, who gives the message to a subordinate messanger to give to us
---francis on 7/22/13


Gordon, the Sabbath is sunday for me. my point is what does it matter. my salvation is not based on the Sabbath but I do try to keep sundays holy.
---shira4368 on 7/22/13


Shira, Whatever day is the seventh-day at where you live, is the seventh day for you.

If your seventh-day, as per your calendar, is "Saturday", then, that's your seventh day.

There are some out there who are against the Sabbath try to complicate this whole thing by getting caught up in minutee to distract from the simplicity of the LORD's Sabbath.

Let it not be so. :-)
---Gordon on 7/22/13


---Gordon on 7/22/13
Arch does not mean leader ( show me your source for arch menaing leader)

Arch means: a person who is preeminent, a chief

But lets use your definition: Leader, and angel, messenger

Could there possibly be ONE person who is the leader of all the messengers of God?
Or among all the messengers of God who could be the leader?

Malachi 3:1 and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Now seeing that Jesus, the Lord, is a messenger of God, whom do you put in leadership over him?
---francis on 7/22/13




No one knows if the sabbath is sat or sun.
---shira4368 on 7/22/13

If you knew for sure which day was the sabbath woudl you keep it on that day?

Why do you keep sunday?

On what day of the week was Jesus resurrected?
---francis on 7/22/13


francis, The Lord Yahushua is not Michael the archangel.

GOD's Kingdom is bigger than that, francis.

GOD's got plenty of room for tons of angelic beings.

Yahushua does not "do everything", He sends His angels to do things, too.

JUST LIKE YAHUSHUA SENDS US, HIS PEOPLE, TO DO THINGS FOR HIS SAKE, ON EARTH. Right?

There is more than one archangel.

Gabriel, for instance, is also an archangel, like Michael.

"arch" = "leader"

"angel" = "messenger"

Michael and Gabriel are leading angels.

They are of a higher rank than most of GOD's angels.

Satan used to be an arch-angel of GOD. He was "Lucifer" or "Heliel"
---Gordon on 7/22/13


Shira, The observance of Sabbath cannot save us, only the Blood of Yahushua can. But, once we're Saved we are to obey GOD's Commandments.

Sunday will be the Anti-Christ's day of worship, as revealed by GOD through HIS Prophets.

GOD takes the Sabbath seriously. It is perpetual for all HIS people, both Jew and Gentile Believers, EXODUS 31:16 and GALATIANS 3:28.

GOD even had people killed if they violated the Sabbath, EXODUS 31:15. That shows that the Sabbath is important to GOD.

Yahushua says that if we love Him, we'll obey His Commandments, JOHN 14:15 and 15:10.

His Commands are the two Greatest Commandments, MATTHEW 22:37-40.

The Ten Commandments, of EXODUS 20, are within the two Greatest Commandments.
---Gordon on 7/22/13


1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

If you are still thinking as a child, that an angel is a created being you will need to start thinking as a man ( adult)

Angels are messengers of God, be it human, Cherub, Seraph, or Jesus himself

Galatians 4:14 but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

even Paul in the NT recognized that Jesus Christ is an angel of God

and YES the New Covenant started IMMEDIATELY AFTER the death of Jesus. That is why at his death the temple veil was torn, to signify that the Old Covenant was over with
---francis on 7/21/13


Scott, for your information, I do not follow the person of Calvin. I follow the real Jesus Christ of the Bible. I do believe in the Calvinistic system, that does not mean I believe in Calvin. The system is bigger then Calvin or anyone. Just because I learn a lot from MacArthur does not mean I follow his dispensation believes, for I do not believe in the despensation believes he follows. We compare everything to the Word of God. Those born of God follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible who is God not an archangel, for He created even the archangels. We do not follow the pope, Charles Russell, Joseph Smith or E.G. White, we follow the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/13


France's I don't need a week to answer you. Maybe you are the one that needs a week. No one knows if the sabbath is sat or sun. It never should be the basis for doctrine. I keep the sabbath holy. I keep it Saturday thru the next Sunday. The important thing is salvation.
---shira4368 on 7/22/13


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---shira4368 on 7/21/13
It matters only of God says so. What does God say concerning His Sabbath day?
Not what you think, Open the bible, put " Sabbath" in your search, then return next week tell me what the bible says

---Mark_V. on 7/21/13
Good post
Now if one passages says the voice that raises the dead is Jesus, and another says the voice is that of the archangel does not not tell you that Jesus and the archangel are one and the same?

You have several passages using Jesus and Michael INTERCHANGEABLY performing the very same acts that only God can perform

Then you have the name itself
Michael : Who is like God
ARCH, Chief of
ANGEL: Messenger of God
---francis on 7/21/13


francis, you keep harping on the Sabbath. does it really matter? does going to church on sat guarantee your salvation? so what and who cares if the Sabbath is Saturday or sunday. I am still saved and I go to church on Saturday if necessary and sunday too. I have gone to church all week. its just not important enough for a debate here. discuss something else like salvation and being a witness. francis, I actually like some of your post but there are two that you hound upon. why don't you be a good witness instead of trying to change everyones doctrine. no one listens or at least I don't.
---shira4368 on 7/21/13


---Gordon on 7/21/13
ONE of the reason why we are 100% confident that Michael the arch angel is Jesus is that the VOICE which is heard that raises the dead is that of Jesus

In one passage you say one of his arch angels shout.
Three things wrong with that
1: The Lord himself descends with a shout, it is the Lord who is shouting
2: There is only ONE arch angel
3: Other passages say it is the voice of Jesus that raises the dead
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Zechariah 9:14 and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet,

Rev 1:10 I .. heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega
---francis on 7/21/13


YAHUSHUA (JESUS CHRIST) and the archangel Michael are two different beings. They are not the same person.

I THESSALONIANS 4:16 is simply saying that YAHUSHUA Himself shall descend to Earth, and one of His archangels shall shout to the Earth of the Lord's Arrival.............Just like when the LORD used an angel to announce the Birth of the Messiah to the shepherds who're abiding in the fields
---Gordon on 7/21/13


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For (Calvinist) Mark_V:

Protestant Reformer John Calvin said regarding "Michael" in its occurrence at Daniel 12:1:

"I embrace the opinion of those who refer this to the person of Christ because it suits the subject best to represent him as standing forward for the defense of his elect people."

J. Calvin, Commentaries On The Book Of The Prophet Daniel, trans. T. Myers (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1979), vol. 2 p. 369.


You're welcome = )
---scott on 7/21/13


H. francis, the passages you gave do not comfirm Jesus is Michael. I don't answer all but will answer some,
You give,
"1: John 5:28-29, 1 Thes 4:16 whose VOICE raises the dead?" Both passages teache that the voice of the Lord raises the dead. It might sound like the voice of an archangel but isn't. No angel raises the dead.
Then give, " 2: Isaiah 25:7-9," the passage is speaking about the Lord of Hosts. Then give
" Zechariah 12:9," also speaks about the Lord and how it will be on that day the Lord defends the inhabitants of Jerusalem and it will be like the house of David, The house of David shall be like God, doesn't mean the house of David becomes God or the angel of the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/13


Adetunji If you have studied it, then you should have no problems answering these questions:

1: John 5:28-29, 1 Thes 4:16 whose VOICE raises the dead?

2: Isaiah 25:7-9, Zechariah 12:9, Malachi 4:1-5,Isaiah 66:15-16 Special emphasis on Daniel 12:1 and rev 19: tell me all the people who fight / stand up for Gods people in the last day?

3: Joshua 5:14 -15 and Rev 12:7 who is the leader of the Host/ Army of God both in heaven and earth?

4: Daniel 10:21 and Matthew 24:21 Who besides the angel reporting in Daniel 10:21 knows the prophecies of the end times?

5: Genesis 31:11-13,Malachi 3:1, Rev 1:1 What role is Jesus playing in these verses?
---francis on 7/21/13


Adetunji on 7/20/13
Let me ask you this question before we continue posting about Michael:

How extensive have your study been about Michael the Arch Angel, and the Angel of God / the Lord?

I do not want to discus this with someone who had not yet studied it
---francis on 7/20/13


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'One of the chief princes...' (Daniel 10:13)

A prince is a son of a King. Jesus is scripturally 'Son of God' or 'God's son'. To be termed 'prince' is appropriate given that Jesus is the son of the 'King of eternity'- 1Tim.1:17.

Adetunji isolates Dan.10:13 without reference to other occurences of Michael's scriptural description.

'Michael, the great prince...'- Dan.12:1 (NIV)

'the archangel Michael...' Jude 9 (NIV)

Not only is Michael 'one of' the cheif princes- he is the 'great prince' and 'archangel'. The one described in Revelation as removing Satan- Rev.12:7-9.

Thus Jesus 'the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel...' 1Thess.4:16. (NIV)
---David8318 on 7/20/13


One of the chief princes is not the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Adetunji on 7/20/13

Actually it is. Remember you are reading an English translation

In Hebrew it is literally "the FIRST of the princes" Check your concordance for the word "One"

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

So let beak down Colossians 1:15

MICHAEL: Who is the image of the invisible God ( Jesus is not the father, but he is like the Father),
ARCH: firstborn of every creature ( he is the first, number one)

If you are really interested in this, look at the roles of the arch angel and that of Jesus. Look at Revelation 1:1
what is the role of Jesus?
---francis on 7/20/13


I believe that some blogs should be pulled when people start being offensive. To continually use the prefix 'heretic' before a person's name is offensive. To say someone is an idiot is offensive.

Disagreeing is one thing but being offensive is not showing the love of God nor is it a good witness to any non-believer looking at these blogs.

Is any newcomer ever likely to want to know more about Christianity after reading some of the things said here recently? Not likely.
---Rita_H on 7/20/13


Francis: Is Daniel 10:13 existing in your SDA Bible? How does it read? Our Bible describes Michael in this verse as "one of the chief princes". Has your Bible been doctored to reflect only SDA views like the Jehovah Witnesses Bible? If this verse is the same in your Bible, do you shut your eyes from reading it? One of the chief princes is not the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Adetunji on 7/20/13


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//Where does the New Testament (covenant) really begin?//
By reading what mark and francis are saying it must have something to do with the sabbath
---michael_e on 7/20/13


heretic francis, so you now confess that God nowhere told us that the Seventh Day was Saturday. I told you God never said that, man said that, Here you say,
"On planet earth, the third rock from the sun, the 7th day is called Saturday. Not names by God, but named by man"
At least you admit that it was man who called the seventh day Saturday, it was not God. In the New Testament it was man who called the Seventh day Sabbath a Sunday. Only those under the law are still on Saturday Sabbath, they have not entered the New Covenant, they are still under the law.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


heretic francis, how in all creation can my son listen to what you say, when you don't even have the right Jesus to worship? My son knows the Jesus of the Bible you don't even know that. He knows the gospel truth. He is like you, blind and unable of himself to save himself. He needs for God to open his heart and change him. And I put my faith in God that he will.
I cannot ask you if your family is saved, how could you know? You do not even know the Jesus of Scripture. First you say Jesus is Michael the archangel now on another blog you say He is a mighty god but not Almighty God. The same teaching of the Jehovah Witnesses. When they changed John 1:1 to a god.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


heretic francis, what you teach from the Jehovah Witnesses is false. People only get saved by God. They cannot save themselves. Salvation is only by grace through faith, not of works so that no one may boast. If God ever brings the word of God to you in power and the Holy Spirit, then you will be save yourself and you won't be preaching another Jesus. But until that time, you will continue to believe in another jesus.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


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Mark_V. maybe getting some facts right may help with your son
Fact: #1: Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and rested the seventh day:

The 7th day is what we call Saturday, it is the Sabbath

Fact#2: There are no arch angel(S) in the bible, there is only one,
Arch means Chief or in charge of: Jesus shall send forth his angels, Matthew 13:41
Angel means Messenger: Jesus is the messenger of the covenant Malachi 3:1
Michael means who is like God:
Jesus is the image of the invisible God, Colossians 1:15

So Jesus is the chief of all the messengers of the Father, and is like the father

Try teaching your son facts, and truth. I think your son can see the untruth in your beliefs
---francis on 7/19/13


We know He started on day one, but He never tells us the one day was Sunday.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13

If that is your reason for not keeping the sabbath, then I can understand why your son has rejected Christ.
---francis on 7/19/13


Heretic francis, why do you through my son in the conversation. Are you saying your whole family are heretics like you? If they believe your theology they too are heretics.

You wrote so much down, and nowhere did you give one passage where God said He started creation on Sunday and rested Saturday. We know He started on day one, but He never tells us the one day was Sunday. Your theology is wrong because your jesus is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible, who is God and Creator of all things including archangels.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13


Mark V, Read the Creation account in GENESIS to know which week-day is Sanctified.

Creation Day #1
GOD created Light, and the first Night and Day

Creation Day #2
GOD divided the waters from the Earth and the sky

Creation Day #3
GOD created dry land and all vegetation

Creation Day #4
GOD created the Sun, the Moon and the twinkling stars

Creation Day #5
GOD created the creatures of the air and of the seas

Creation Day #6
GOD created the creatures of the land, and mankind

Day #7
GOD rested
GOD sanctified, (made Holy), this 7th Day

All weeks following are patterned after the Creation Week

EXODUS 20:8-11 tells us that the 7th Day is GOD's Sabbath Day for man.
---Gordon on 7/18/13


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Where did God say that the Sabbath was Saturday?
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13

If this is your resaon for not keeping the sabbath, I can understand why your son rejects your theology

Have you ever considered that your son considers you an idiot, and that is why he rejects you theology?
---francis on 7/18/13


Where did God say that the Sabbath was Saturday?
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13

The bible does not give the days names. It gives them numbers.

It does not say that Saturday is the Sabbath, it says that the 7th day is the Sabbath

Do you believe that the 7th day is the Sabbath?

On planet earth, the third rock from the sun, the 7th day is called Saturday. Not names by God, but named by man. God,s people still keep the 7th day holy, as God commanded.

But only a fool would say that any other day is the 7th day
Proverbs 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin:

See the bible says that to break any of the commandments is sin, a fool would say that he doe snot know which day is the 7th
---francis on 7/18/13


7/18/13 - I myself should be disqualified - Having " Preach" to Others - ( Paul - Think s he can lose his salvation ? )

THIS Verse has Nothing To do with that - It has to do with bring the Gospel Correctly, Still being in the flesh - and the corruption of his flesh, By this nature that men could reject him - Paul was one of Gods elect, a Chosen Vessel ,
---RICHARDC on 7/18/13


francis, again you are no able to answer the questions. If you are so gifted in the matters of God why don't you answer the questions? Where did God say that He started creation on Sunday and rested Saturday?
Where did God say that the Sabbath was Saturday?
You have nothing to give other then the law. And the reason you give the law is because you believe Jesus is Michael the archangel. You have the wrong Jesus. Your faith is in a prophet, not in the Lord Jesus Christ who is God Creator of all things including archangels.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13


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Mark_V. on 7/18/13
this is above your head.
If you do not know earthly things like what das of the week is the 1st or 7th, how can you know heavenly things?
---francis on 7/18/13


heretic francis, when you mentioned the kingdom to come, you said kingdom to come, indicating it had not come. Now you say the kingdom of God is at hand. If it is at hand, how can you say,
"No blood needed for the kingdom to come" To come means it hasn't come. Here you give passages where the kingdom of God is at hand. There is also a big difference in the kingdoms. The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven the kingdom within you.
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world, if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom"
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13


"And if by grace, then is it no more of works:---christan

Grace makes any work easier for God's Children.

1 Cor 9:24-27
Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete EXERCISES DISCIPLINE in every way. They do it to win a perishable one. Thus I do not run aimlessly, I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be DISQUALIFIED.

What? Paul thinks he can lose his Salvation, but you claim it is impossible???
I think Paul has more reason to believe he is God's chosen child since Jesus spoke to him (Literally) and made him an Apostle.
---Nikki on 7/18/13


No blood needed for the kingdom to come
---Mark_V. on 7/17/13

Where have you seen that blood was needed for the kingdom to come?

When jesus came to earth so did the kingdom fo heaven, he had not yet shed his blood when he declared:

Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


This kingdom teaching is above your head
---francis on 7/17/13


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jerry if you had read my post you would know what I actually said. I said satan believes in God but not for salvation. satan was in heaven with God before God got rid of him. satan knows God exist and that is what I said and what I meant.
---shira4368 on 7/17/13


"There is no salvation for those who refuse to DO the will of the Father. The express will of the Father is the Ten Commandments. What you preach is "cheap grace" - an easy slide to glory with a "get-into-heaven-free" card." jerry6593 - a true confession of a works monger.

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6

"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9

You're a contradiction to the Word of God.
---christan on 7/17/13


Leviticus 17:11 - For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your soul, for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
---RICHARDC on 7/17/13


Heretical francis, you now say,
"Hebrews 13:20... that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, No blood needed for the kingdom to come"
The blood of the everlasting Covenant is the blood of Jesus Christ. In the context of Hebrews, it is the New Covenant that is eternal (in a future sense) compared to the Mosaic Covenant that was temporary and had been abogated ( 8:6-13: 9:15).
---Mark_V. on 7/17/13


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Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The New testament cannot begin before the death of the testator
The new covenant does not started until AFTER the death of Jesus Christ
---francis on 7/16/13


The New Covenant was ofter by John the Baptist. He was preaching repents for your sins for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
---Bryan on 7/15/13
Two different things

Hebrews 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Hebrews 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling,...
Hebrews 13:20... that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

No blood needed for the kingdom to come
---francis on 7/16/13


Mark 4:30,31,32 Explains how the word will remove sin from your life. If you sow the Gospel, you will reap the Gospel. Sow judgment and condemnation and you will reap same. The gospel is the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the Laws of sin and death. Not that I should go around sinning but, sharing the Gospel that leads people to repentance. If you think your better than anybody else in this world that you have the right to judge them. What Gospel is that, satan is the acquire not Jesus. He said "Mark 16,15" go preach the Gospel to every living creature. He did not say go judge every creature he said share the Gospel. His word got you to me to repent so I think it would have no problem with anybody else.
---Bryan on 7/16/13


Faith base redemption is greater than law base Redemption, ------ Faith was a main Component of the Old Testament,

Read Hebrews 11
---RICHARDC on 7/16/13


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Robert, Willie C answer is correct,
"The New Covenant really began in our Father's heart.(in Romans 8:29)."
Adding that before the creation of the world, a plan (covenant or agreement) was already in place, by the Persons of the Trinity. It was a pact between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with the purpose of redeeming God's elect. The Father gave the Son those whom He chose to save and required Him to accomplish that salvation though His obedient life and atoning death as the second Adam. The Son accepted the Father gift, agreed to the conditions of the covenant, and submitted Himself to the Father's will. The Holy Spirit promised to apply the benefits earned by the Son to the elect and unite them with the Son forever.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/13


Bryan & Shira: Judas also believed in Jesus. Do you think he will be saved?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There is no salvation for those who refuse to DO the will of the Father. The express will of the Father is the Ten Commandments.

What you preach is "cheap grace" - an easy slide to glory with a "get-into-heaven-free" card.



---jerry6593 on 7/16/13


amen bryan amen.
---shira4368 on 7/15/13


Faith based redemption is greater than law based redemption. cause in law based redemption if you miss it in any area. one coma, one dot, one word you have failed. Faith based you can do what is right by faith and if you miss it you have grace to do it again no condemnation as from the law there is condemnation and you are never worthy.
---Bryan on 7/15/13


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Ezekiel 18:30 - Therefore I will judge you all your transgressions, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God, Repent and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
---RICHARDC on 7/15/13


When you start believing in Jesus Cause until you do you are under the law. The New Covenant was ofter by John the Baptist. He was preaching repents for your sins for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Before John started sharing this Gospel you had to go to the priest to get you sin covered by a animal sacrifices. John was offing something totally new to people it was faith based redemption not sacrifice of you animals totally new way of believing. The Gospel still works today if you sow it in love not judgment.
---Bryan on 7/15/13


Foolishness after foolishness can only flow out from the heart of fools who claim the Spirit of God was never there in the OT from the beginning.

As early as Genesis 1:2 we are told, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." And even more explicitly in Exodus 31:3 when God told Moses with regards to Bezaleel, "And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship".

And if the "Spirit of Life" was not in the OT, how then were the saints of the OT saved? By works through their freewill? Ya right!
---christan on 7/15/13


1 Samuel 16:13 - Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in midst of his brethren, and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward, So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah,
---RICHARDC on 7/14/13


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Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign , The virgin will conceive and bear a son, and will be call him Immanuel, and bear a son,

Matthew 1:23 - The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son and they will call him Immanuel, ( which means God with us ) NIV

Genesis 15:6 - And he believed in the Lord, and he counted it to him for righteousness,
---RICHARDC on 7/13/13


Mat_27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent,
Mar_15:38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
Luk_23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh,
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God,
---aka on 7/13/13


The New Testament began at the time when Jesus began teaching about the gospel while in Capernaum saying "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
---Steveng on 7/12/13
No, because until his death, he continued to be subject, and to subject all to the law of Moses

Matthew 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man, but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
---francis on 7/13/13


Sorry Christan, it appears you didn't understand the question. If the OT and NT are the same???? is that what you mean???? then you are
Saying no NT came into effect at the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ ? I do see you trying to apply OT LAW scriptures to The Grace age....strange really.


The NT Covenant Christan did not BEGIN in the OT.

So the Promise of the SPIRIT that is the SPIRIT of the LIFE of the RISEN CHRIST was not in the Old Covenant.

So keep your condescending GRUNTS to yourself calling others stupid, when it's clear here who is the daft one at hand.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/13


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2 Timothy 3:15 - And that from a child thou hast known the Holy scriptures, Which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is Profitable for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works,
---RICHARDC on 7/13/13


Such is the foolishness of some, they cannot even comprehend what the Holy Bible aka the Word of God is all about, the Lord Jesus Christ and no one else. The OT/NT are One!

Blinded by their folly in freewill, they cannot even see that He was there from the beginning as John explicitly declared, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

As there will be an end (only God knows when since He presedestined it), there must be a beginning. He explicitly told us, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure". That includes electing and rejecting.
---christan on 7/12/13


The New Testament began at the time when Jesus began teaching about the gospel while in Capernaum saying "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Thus began the ministry of the new covenant. Besides all the miracles proving of God's existance, the death and the resurrection is the proof that what Jesus preach is true.
---Steveng on 7/12/13


AMEN
It seems that we all agree that the New Covenant strated at Jesus death.
---francis on 7/12/13


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"The New Testament began with the death of Jesus......"
That post is mine. I capitalize the name inadvertently. My apologies Joseph.
---joseph on 7/12/13


Is the person of Jesus Christ good enough an answer to the question of this blog?

---christan on 7/12/13

Then WHY do you always seem to quote OT scripture OR scripture stated while Jesus was still on earth?

You continually quote John 6, the Father draws...but draws to what??? Jesus death and resurrection? Hardly there in John 6, since Jesus had not died and rose again. Today the FATHER does not draw you to Jesus, but the Holy Spirit draws you to Christ crucified/risen who then Jesus brings you to the Father.

Romans 10:9-10 if you believe with your Heart, God RAISED Jesus from the dead...thou shall be saved, was not even an issue in John 6. Those who the Father drew to Jesus THEN were his disciples.
---kathr4453 on 7/12/13


"Where does the New Testament (covenant) really begin?"
The New Testament began with the death of Jesus. Scripturally when Father made a covenant, it was usually ratified with blood and/or the death of a sacrifice. The only exception I can think of was the covenant made with Noah.
However, "where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force [only] after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives." Hbr 9:16,17 In other words "The will goes into effect only after the person's death. While the person who made it is still alive, the will cannot be put into effect." NLT
---Joseph on 7/12/13


"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." Matthew 26:28

"And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many." Mark 14:24

"Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." Luke 22:20

Is the person of Jesus Christ good enough an answer to the question of this blog?
---christan on 7/12/13


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Robert, do you mean what point in TIME does the New Testament/Covenant begin?

Or do you mean place, which is what "where" asks?

Please clarify.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/11/13


The New Covenant really began in our Father's heart . . . when He predestined us "to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29) This is basically what is meant by the New Testament, isn't it? This started in our Father, then, before the foundation of the world.

In history, though, when did the New Testament begin? Well, it began with how the death of Jesus activated the testament . . . like how a person must die and then this activates the person's will > Hebrews 9:16-17.

But the Holy Spirit is the executor who fulfills in us all that Jesus' covenant means.
---willie_c: on 7/11/13


Where does the New Testament (covenant) really begin?
---Rober7995 on 7/11/13
By faith:
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

By fulfilment: Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
---francis on 7/11/13


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