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What Is Act Of Faith

Hebrews 12:2 explicitly tells us that Christ authored our faith, He is the beginning of it. If He finished our faith, He is the completion of it. That leaves very little room for us to add to it. So why do multitudes say we have to first believe in Him to receive faith? Isn't believing the act of faith?

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"You stood on your high righteous seat." Mark_V

I think I saw that at a circus once...the seat was on the back of a horse.
---scott on 7/21/13


Well, why don't you run on over to Rom 10:14 and ask the same one who wrote Hebrews. ("How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?")
Christ did author, begin, and finish our/the faith. How would you accept that if you didn't believe it?
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, Rom 10:17. Faith is exercized by believing what God has said. Belief and faith lead to Salvation by Grace without any kind of works.
This is why you must research the whole issue and not just one side of it.
---Elder on 7/21/13


Mark you try to evade reality. You implied Marc had a mental condition, for no good reason. This is an attack upon the man, called ad hominem. And to compound your sin you refuse to apologize. Maybe you were predestined to behave this way!

I have not called Christan a demon, I have not attacked the man, but have described a god who does not exist, (the type of God who would unjustly punish the innocent) as a demon. What else could you call a god who compelled Adam to sin then punished the whole universe (Romans 8:22) for the sin He compelled Adam to commit?

What else would you call a god who stocks hell with people he predestined to be there?

The problem is that this no-free-will theology creates the demon god.
---Warwick on 7/21/13


why do multitudes say we have to first believe in Him to receive faith? Isn't believing the act of faith?.....

Yes it is the faith the size of a mustard seed.

But one must first hear the truth for that faith to be activated. Once one hears, they are given a choice, either believe and be saved or not and die in your sins.
Receive salvation or reject it.
That is the choice that is given.
---g on 7/21/13


To the Sheep that are sought and seeking.
May you find truth which establishes faith. Neither faith or truth is found of the talking heads of men today.

Heb_11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Who was/is under law?
Heb 8:10.

2Th_3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Even if they strut churchy title or wear a robe of the finest purchased or self slain lambskin.
---Trav on 7/21/13




Warwick, you stood on your high righteous seat when you criticized me for tell Marc/Kathr to take their med's for mouthing off. You said it was disgusting for me to say medications. And here you tell Christan
" What a demon your god is."
Implying His God is a demon. From your righteous seat, you pull a demon out of your pocket for your answer to Christan all because he gave you an answer you did not like. You have no right yourself to judge another brother just because you seat on a righteous seat. If you don't like the answers, and don't understand the word of God you should not answer.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/13


Amen Warwick, good teaching!

Man must be told the truth before they can be saved.
Eph says after we heard, we believed. After we believed we were saved. After we were saved, we were sealed.

EPH1.13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

How salvation happens word of God truth, undisputed
---g on 7/21/13


Christan, were Adam and Eve free to either obey or disobey God's command? You say no, therefore God willed them to sin. What a demon your god is.

You would have us believe they were created to sin while God says His finished creation was "very good." This god is a demon who unjustly blames Adam and calls sin "very good."

Timothy 2:14 tells us Eve was deceived by Satan but you say God made her do it!

1 Corinthians 15:21 says death came into the world because of Adam's sin. Verse 26 calls death "the last enemy to be destroyed." But according to your theology Adam was not guilty, as he had no choice and death is no enemy as God always intended it to be so.
---Warwick on 7/21/13


Warwick, salvation is never forced on anyone. When God wants to save someone, the Holy Spirit has to first bring the person who is dead in sin, alive. (Eph. 2:1) teaches that. Speaking to believers Paul says,
"And you He made alive who were dead in trespasses and sins" This is the work of the Holy Spirit. (v. 2:5) says
"Even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" and to make sure they understood, Paul says,
"by grace you have been saved, and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the Heavenly places in Christ Jesus," All the work of God. Nowhere are we told if we use our free will. That would be a good time to mention free will if man had it.
---Mark_V. on 7/21/13


"Were they free to either obey or disobey this command? Either yes or no are your two possible answers." Warwick

NO! Now you show us where in Scriptures that declared Adam and Eve "choose freely". And I speak with assurance, you ain't going to find that verse saying so. Why?

Because the Lord Almighty explicitly declared, "...the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Which simply imply that the disobedience of Adam and Eve in the garden was already purposed (I rather call it predestined) by God. Comprehend?

Your freewill exist no more than your futile imagination.
---christan on 7/20/13




Richard, you have not read what I wrote, nor understood the Bible verses I gave.

I showed, by Scripture, that we can only be saved by grace, and not by works. Therefore whatever Peter's hearers did when told to repent and be baptized is not a work but a proper reaction to their comprehending their evil and their hopelessness to in any way save themselves.

Peter did not preach the Law but salvation by grace, through the finished work of Jesus Christ upon the cross.
---Warwick on 7/20/13


Warwick - When we genuinely Repent - Repent and baptized ,

If some say's am going to repent, That means there obeying the Law. That would still be a work, And you can not be Saved by your own works , Even if a person become saved they can fall in to sin, Bible gives the example of David, and he's a beloved of God, Why because we still have a body of flesh, Baptize - Bible tells about Two baptism - One water - The other Spirit - But yet the bible say's there is only One baptism - That is of the Spirit - man can not control that, That is the one that saves, act of grace, and that why this comes down to God having mercy on who God will have mercy on.
---RICHARDC on 7/20/13


Warwick, for you and Elder,
The angel told Joseph,
"Thou shall call His name Jesus, for he shall save His people from their sins" not try to save them, but actually save them. Then the Word says,
"I Am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I Am the good Shepherd: The good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep" (John 10:10,11). So if you belong to the sheep of Christ you must be saved. Is He dying for all man? No, only for His sheep.
Luke 19:10) does not say that Christ came here to seek and to save all the lost. by the time He came billions had already died in their sins. Man does not seek after God (Rom. 3:11), Jesus does the seeking.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


Richard good works come after salvation. Good works has never saved anyone. It also has nothing to do with free will. Its not Gods will that any should perish but thru Him might be saved.
---shira4368 on 7/20/13


Warwick, all descendants of Adam are born in sin. They are dead in trespasses and sins. Everything they do in life is sin if it is done without faith in Christ. Anything without faith is sin. Everyone has broken the law of God. When they do things that look as good to us they are sin, because what may be known of God is manifested in them, for God has shown it to them. All are without excuse because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Sure they make choices but never for God. They need to be brought to spiritual life by God. They are in bondage to sin, Spiritually dead people cannot make themselves spiritually alive.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


Warwick, Richard is correct. Those in Acts who were cut to the heart by the gospel are those who's hearts were changed by God's Word. After they believed, they ask what must they do. And what are all new believers told to do? To repent and be baptized. Repenting only comes from those who's hearts have been changed by God. For God grants them repentance (2 Tim. 2:25.26)
"God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the Truth, and that they escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will"
its all the work of God. "No one can receive anything except what is given him from heaven" (John 3:27). That's why salvation is all of grace.
---Mark_V. on 7/20/13


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Richard I disagree. We are saved by God's grace alone as Ephesians ch. 2 explains. It is all His work, but He does not force salvation upon us but gives it freely to any who genuinely repent. For confirmation read Acts chapter 2 where Peter's listeners were 'cut to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."' Though the gift is all of God's doing it is given to us when we genuinely repent. This does not come from any good work that we do or it could not be a "gift."
---Warwick on 7/20/13


Freewill to Choose - If someone say's they have freewill, That would mean by some action they have taken has save them,
Then what you end up with is being saved by your Good works, Galatains 2:16 ( for by Works of the law shall no flesh be justified ) By saying you have freewill your saying your justified by your works,
---RICHARDC on 7/19/13


Christan, you have chosen to ignore what I wrote to you regarding Adam and Eve. Good choice. So I ask a question: God commanded they not eat the fruit of a certain tree. Were they free to either obey or disobey this command? Either yes or no are your two possible answers.
---Warwick on 7/19/13


You've just confirmed how stupid and ridiculous the theory of freewill is to salvation. You are saying is, when a man is given a "choice" to go to heaven or hell, he would rather pick hell?---christan on 7/19/13

As ridiculous as satan!
He was in Heaven and glazed on the Face of God constantly.

YET THE IDIOT CHOOSE HELL!
FREE WILL
---Nikki on 7/19/13


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"As people in hell know why they are in hell and not in heaven. Their choice! They chose Hell and not Heaven!" Nikki

You've just confirmed how stupid and ridiculous the theory of freewill is to salvation. You are saying is, when a man is given a "choice" to go to heaven or hell, he would rather pick hell?

Then why are there so many in this world every other day attempting to do "good works" and through the testimony of the Bible we are told, will not change their destination of which gate they would be heading for? Isn't your concept of freewill a "work" and not of grace?

That God will reward you if you "choose" Him? Doesn't that make God indebted to you? Wow!
---christan on 7/19/13


The rich man in hell desired relief which was too late to receive. Next, he desired that Abraham would send Lazarus as a witness, to warn his brethren (in that excusing himself also). 'Father Abraham' reapplied: "They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them."---Nana on 7/19/13

Excellent point!
Why didn't the rich man ask Abraham to reason with God instead of his brothers?
Because he knew it was his brother's free will to choose, and God allows the choice.
---Nikki on 7/19/13


All are sinful so GOD brings sinful people to salvation all the time. Now the question is when the HOLY SPIRIT convicts a person of sin and opens their mind to the Gospel. Because we do not open the mind of anyone. We are used by the HOLY SPIRIT to say words but the work is GOD's. Then that person can choose for GOD has give them a choice.

JESUS stands at the door and knocks. He does not kick the door down on some people and then tell others I want to see you burn in hell for what you cannot be held responsible for since I made you unable to be saved.

GOD is Agape or Love. He hates sin. Those who love sin will be lost.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/19/13


Mark, Adam and Eve were made perfect with no sin nature. They were not programmed to sin, however they chose to eat of the forbidden fruit. They were not forced to do this, to sin, they chose to do it. If they were forced to sin there was no free will therefore no sin. Therefore no reason for the curse therefore no reason for Jesus to come and die, "For the wages of sin is death..." Romans 6:23. You just destroyed the gospel! What next?

Today, because of Adam we humans are born with a sin nature but none the less we choose. That we have a sin nature does not mean we cannot choose to do good. We make that choice everyday. If as you say we have no choice but to sin then we would do no good.
---Warwick on 7/19/13


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markv, it doesn't matter who gives you scripture you will never read the truth as the truth. did you know I have a choice to walk in front of a train or traffic or I can choose to shoot someone. the choosing is on and on and on.
---shira4368 on 7/19/13


"As people in hell know why they are in hell and not in heaven.
Their choice! They chose Hell and not Heaven!"
---Nikki on 7/19/13

Absolutely! Luke 16:19_32 testifies to your say Nikki. The rich man in hell desired relief which was too late to receive. Next, he desired that Abraham would send Lazarus as a witness, to warn his brethren (in that excusing himself also). 'Father Abraham' repplied: "They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them." Moses and the prophets as instruments brought the word of God to the people. Didn't Christ say, "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."?
---Nana on 7/19/13


Their will's are never free. If they had a free will, they could not be judge right or wrong.---Mark_V. on 7/19/13

You sound like those people who claim it isn't their fault for being fat.

I am fat, I know why I am fat. I chose to eat cookies, cakes, pizzas and pasta. I did not chose to eat more vegetables, bake foods and the like.
I know why I can't wear a size 5 pant, but wear a size 16!

As people in hell know why they are in hell and not in heaven.
Their choice! They chose Hell and not Heaven!
---Nikki on 7/19/13


markv, your last post is called PHILOSOPHY. Philosophy and vein deceit we are to avoid at all cost.

God gave the man who is in bondage to sin the ABILITY to place their faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin.

And someone who is in bondage to sin can in fact BELIEVE.

A sinfil man can put their faith into a chair, believing that chair will hold him up.

So please show THROUGH SCRIPTURE a man in bondage to sin is incapable of TRUSTING ANOTHER. or incapable of believing someone. Or incapable of knowing right from wrong, especially since God told us what sin is according to the 10 commandments.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/13


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Warwick, you say,
""not willing" means they were exercizing their free-will in the negative." if the will had a desire to sin, how in all creation can the will be free? For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. If we make choices with no inclination, free, then we make choices for no reason. But when God evaluates our choices, He is concerned about our motives and desires. All human beings will's everyday are in bondage to sin or in bondage to righteousness, in bondage to satan or in bondage to God, Their will's are never free. If they had a free will, they could not be judge right or wrong.
Read the definition of "Free" and "Will".
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13


Nikki, I agree. You know too, the only important thing is, " do you KNOW The Lord". Do you have a personal intimate relationship with The Lord Jesus Christ? Jesus is not a doctrine, religion etc. Abraham was a FRIEND of God's. Enoch walked with God = personal.

That was the one Thing I asked Emcee. And I asked him, if you were to die today, do you know for sure you are saved? He said YES.

I believe him. And know one day I will meet him in heaven.

We 're not saved by doctrine, but saved By His Life. Christ in you, the hope of GLORY.
---kathr4453 on 7/18/13


Mark Luke 13:34 part : "how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. This shows what Jesus longs for, their salvation, but they were not willing."

"not willing" means they were exercizing their free-will in the negative. The same Greek word is used for "longed" and "wiling" both expressing what the two parties willed. If there is no free-will as you claim, no one can be "not willing."
---Warwick on 7/18/13


Thanks, Kathr and Nana, I just had a strong urge from the Holy Spirit to pray for him. I don't know why.
I pray he is okay.

If anything, this website should be for us to pray for one another.
---Nikki on 7/18/13


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\\We got along well which led the Witch Lisa and then Mark_V. to start calling me 'catholic' to try and get under my skin, as if 'catholic' was the ultimate insult!\\

And many people on here have used "Catholic" as the opposite of "Christian."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/18/13


Nikki, forgot to send a 'well done" your way also. I myself remember Emcee dearly and he was around CN when I started back in 2006. He was a Catholic man of some 88 years of age.
We got along well which led the Witch Lisa and then Mark_V. to start calling me 'catholic' to try and get under my skin, as if 'catholic' was the ultimate insult!
---Nana on 7/18/13


Nikki, I wish I knew. He's been gone from here for quite a while. I know he was in his 70-80's. I do miss Emcee. He was/is a precious soul.
---kathr4453 on 7/18/13


Kathr, a while back you mentioned a man name Emcee (I think that's how you spell his name.)

Is he still alive?
---Nikki on 7/18/13


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Warwick, you gave,
"willing" (Luke 13:34) is the Greek 'thelo' which means-to will, decide, want to, wish to, desire. This proves those to whom Jesus spoke had free-will to accept or reject Jesus, as they rejected the prophets." Where in that passage does it say they had free will? The Bible tells us that man is a slave to sin, or he is a slave to God. His will is never free, neutral. Those people chose to disobey God. They chose what they desired, sin, you even mentioned it. The will of man choses what it desires. It is never free. The reason the Bible nowhere tells us that God gave man a free will. He gave Adam a command, He didn't give him free will. And what did Adam do, he chose what he desired, sin.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13


Well done kathr4453 , Warwick and shira4368. Well done.
---Nana on 7/18/13


Now Christan, here is the PERFECT scriptures. Those who accused the woman of adultery. YOU say were so depraved they did not know right from wrong. Here shows they did.


John 8:8-10

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
---kathr4453 on 7/18/13


That includes the "I and YOUR"! You claim you understand but such is your hypocrisy that you contradict yourself in the understanding of "hardening".

---christan on 7/17/13


How can that be christen when Israel was instructed HARDEN NOT YOUR OWN HEART.

Wouldn't a hardened heart be actually that of searing your own conscience?

And we do see in Romans 1-2 those before the flood seered their own conscience AKA HEART.

Adam & Eve did not have a seered conscience after they sinned. If that were so, they would not have know they were naked AND HID!
---kathr4453 on 7/18/13


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Christan, from another thread: Man had free-will right from the beginning. Adam and Eve had a walking, talking, intimate relationship with God who commanded they not eat the fruit of one particular tree. But they though created perfect, yet without sin, obviously had free-will as they chose to disobey their God.

You wrote "That is, the man who's born "dead in trespass and sins" most definitely does not have the ability to go to Him whatsoever." Adam and Eve demonstrate the error of your doctrine as they were not born "dead in trespass and sin" were they? Yet they, sinless, chose to sin, exercising free-will, and with such disastrous results
---Warwick on 7/18/13


amen warwick. you explained that better than I ever could.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


Christan from another thread: "willing" (Luke 13:34) is the Greek 'thelo' which means-to will, decide, want to, wish to, desire. This proves those to whom Jesus spoke had free-will to accept or reject Jesus, as they rejected the prophets.

Jesus says vs. 34 "How often I have longed to gather your children" using the same word translated as willing in vs. 35, meaning he has long desired they would turn to Him for salvation but they chose not to. Free-will!

In Deuteronomy 30:19 God says choose (Hebrew bahar) life, that you and your offspring may live. Again free-will. If they had no free-will, then God is talking nonsense, but He is not!

---Warwick on 7/17/13


That is, anyone who has a hardened heart is simply because God has hardened it, period. Understand?--christan

You are making it harder than it is.

Psalm 95:1-11
..Oh, that today you would hear HIS voice, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS as at Meribah, as on the day of Massah in the desert.

The Psalmist is asking them to hear God's voice and not harden their hearts.
They are hardening their own hearts not God. Understand?

Your verse is God being the Agent, not Israel.

Exodus 4:21
"..BUT I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART, that he shall not let the people go."

God is speaking not the creature. HE states HE will harden Pharaoh's heart. Not Pharaoh's hardening his own heart like in Psalm 95
Understand?
---Nikki on 7/17/13


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"'I' and 'your' is not the same person." Nikki

The issue is not "i or your" but the "hardening". That is, anyone who has a hardened heart is simply because God has hardened it, period. Understand?

What you are saying is Pharaoh, whose heart God hardened, doesn't harden anyone else's heart but only Pharaoh. How ridiculous you sound in the understanding of the God's work.

Paul simply said, "Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth." That includes the "I and YOUR"! You claim you understand but such is your hypocrisy that you contradict yourself in the understanding of "hardening".
---christan on 7/17/13


Believe What?

God confirms/testifies - His Word.

Smurring out any other word that - comes- instead of Christ.
---char on 7/17/13


You're all over the place. First you show Psalm 95:1-11 to justify that the man has a free-will and that is in the hardening of his own heart. Then I show you Exodus 4:21 to contradict your understanding of Psalm 95:1-11.---christan on 7/17/13

Don't get upset. You asked for one verse and I gave one to you.
Then you claim I plucked out one verse.
You asked for one verse!

Re read Exodus slowly.
God is the one hardening Pharaoh's heart not Pharaoh.

Now read Psalm 95 again.
The Psalmist is telling Israel not to hardening their heart.

'I' and 'your' is not the same person.

So how are you claiming you contradicted my verse with your verse?
Not contradict, but you proved my point.
---Nikki on 7/17/13


2,Okay Christan, since you were not happy with the one verse, here is another.

Rev 3:20-21 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, than I will enter his house and dine with him, and he with me. I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself first won the victory and sit with my Father on His throne.

So you are not confused.
Anyone means everyone.
If: means a choice for the anyone.
Choice to do what?
Open the door.
Accept or Not accept Jesus' invitation.
As I said: Accepting or denying doesn't adds to Faith.
Jesus still Knocks.
You can answer the door, or not.

If you don't, it doesn't mean Jesus DIDN'T KNOCKED ON IT.
---Nikki on 7/17/13


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The word aqxmyos in Greek means:

1. the chief leader, prince
2. one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
3. the author

Acts says: They killed the Prince of Life. Prince here is the exact same word as AUTHOR in Hebrews 12:2 Or to say another way, they killed the AUTHOR of Life. Yes Jesus is the author of Eternal life. Without Him there is not eternal life.

EXAMPLE:
The AUTHOR of the game Monopoly. Without the AUTHOR of Monopoly, there would be no Monopoly. Jesus is in fact the AUTHOR of Salvation: Hebrews 5:9
SOOOO, Please Look to the AUTHOR of Salvation to find out how one is saved.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/13


Christan, wrong again. Hebrews 3 clearly teach how wrong you are. Here God is not talking to any Pharaoh.

Hebrews 3:7-12

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart, and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/13


Look unto Jesus WHO IS our example.

Paul said, be followers of me the way I am of Christ.

Many teach a strange FAITH today, WOF, for one, no suffering for another, Prosperity for another, but they are not looking unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of TRUE FAITH that is the OBEDIENCE of Faith. Hebrews 11 kicks off exactly what this faith is..the PERFECTOR of our Faith.

1 Peter 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
---kathr4453 on 7/17/13


Nikki, first of all, don't flatter yourself to think that I'm mad at you. Far be from it.

You're all over the place. First you show Psalm 95:1-11 to justify that the man has a free-will and that is in the hardening of his own heart. Then I show you Exodus 4:21 to contradict your understanding of Psalm 95:1-11.

Which then only means that "DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS" would then imply if one goes against God, it's because his heart has been hardened by God (just like Pharaoh's) and yet we'll be held accountable for our disobedience to God even though He willed and purposed it to happen.

Your freewill doctrine falls flat on the face of God's truth.
---christan on 7/17/13


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Psalm 95:1-11 and you assume the sinner is the one hardening his own heart? Seriously?--christan

Seriously! You asked for one verse and I gave one verse. Now you are mad because I did what you ask?

I'm sure you'll never be able to come up with a verse.---christan

Exodus 4:21 God states HE harden Pharaoh' heart.

Psalm 95 states: DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS as at Meribah, as on the day of Massah in the desert.

And you dare ask this question?

Who's the "agent" of the hardening? The sinner or God?---christan on 7/16/13

God is telling who is the agent.
God is the Agent in Exodus 4:21 and not in Psalm 95:1-11.

'I' and 'your' is the clue.
---Nikki on 7/16/13


Jeremiah 19:15 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.

Mark 8:17_21 "And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. ... How is it that ye do not understand?"
---Nana on 7/16/13


Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Same verse is in Philippians 2

Keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus, becoming obedient unto death, even death of a cross where God Highly exalted Him.

Or Paul again in Galatians 2:20-21

I am crucified with Christ, it is. No longer I but Christ in me....I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST.

But Christan and Markv, these very verses YOU REJECT in application, denying Him in WORKS as Titus 1:16 so clearly state.

But then again THIS FAITH works through LOVE.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/13


Nikki, you pluck one chapter like Psalm 95:1-11 and you assume the sinner is the one hardening his own heart? Seriously? Just because it's written the way it was written by David? Is there any contradiction to the rest of the Scriptures? Most definitely not!

Here, this is what God told Moses, "When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: BUT I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART, that he shall not let the people go." Exodus 4:21

Who's the "agent" of the hardening? The sinner or God? And yet the sinner WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for the sins against God. Heard of the doctrine that God is sovereign and man will be held accountable?
---christan on 7/16/13


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I'm sure you'll never be able to come up with a verse.---christan

Really?

Psalm 95:1-11
Come, let us sing joyfully to the Lord: cry out to the rock of our SALVATION...Enter, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord who made us. For this is our God, whose people we are, God's well-tended flock.
Oh, that today you would hear his voice, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS as at Meribah, as on the day of Massah in the desert. There your ancestors tested Me, they tried Me though they had SEEN MY WORKS. Forty years I loathed that generation, I said: "This people's heart goes ASTRAY, they do now know My ways." Therefore I swore in My anger: "They shall never enter My rest.

You were saying?
---Nikki on 7/16/13


Christian, if you are genuine then nothing I would say would make you shake in your pants. you are so false everyone can see it here. there is only one that agrees with you out of all the people on cn.
---shira4368 on 7/16/13


shira4368, I agree with your stance and Jeremiah and Ezekiel do as well.

Jeremiah 38:20 "But Jeremiah said, They shall not deliver thee. Obey, I beseech thee, the voice of the LORD, which I speak unto thee: so it shall be well unto thee, and thy soul shall live."

Ezekiel 3:19 "Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul."
Ezekiel 3:21 "Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned, also thou hast delivered thy soul."
---Nana on 7/16/13


Why? Because they did not receive faith from God.
---Mark_V. on 7/15/13

This is not what Jesus taught:

Luke 8:11-14 "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. Those beside the road are those who have heard, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy, and these have no firm root, they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity"
---Mark_Eaton on 7/16/13


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"God will judge you and I would be afraid my testimony would send someone to hell." shira4368

O wow! I'm shaking in my pants that you can send a soul to hell! According to Christ, I'm told "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Can you "destroy both soul and body"?

Your testimony is nothing but from the pits of hell from the way you witness the gospel (a false one, i might add), which is filled with nothing but lies after lies.

Your rejection and making a mockery of God's election in itself is enough for God to send you to hell for unbelief in His testimony.
---christan on 7/16/13


Christan, Paul talks about "faith working through love," in Galatians 5:6. So, faith has to do with loving, not only trusting and believing. If we really believe in Jesus, that He is so great, then we want to do what is so great that He has been doing, loving . . . however this is . . . for us to keep discovering with God who keeps bringing us to more and better than now we can understand and know and "try" to get ourselves to do (c:

So, yes He changes us so we are in faith which then has us believing, I would say. "Sin is separation from God." And faith is union with God, in His love (Romans 5:5), so now we have proof of His existence, by sharing with Him in His love (c:
---willie_c: on 7/16/13


Shira, you speak lies,
"Christian, your scripture is way out of context. you are responsible to God for your lies that you and markv tell."
We have given you Scripture, wrote it down for you, explained it to you, and you call it lies. You have the guts to call the Word of God lies. You are now proving what we have said all alone, that lost man reject the Word of God because they are unable to hear the Lord (John 8:3).
And what do you give? No Scriptures, no explanations but more complains and more accusations, and more lies. You were no different then the rest who do the same. They too call the Word of God a lie. Then you say, we only believe in four or five passages, when I have given you so many. That too is a lie.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/13


Christian, your scripture is way out of context. you are responsible to God for your lies that you and markv tell. God will judge you and I would be afraid my testimony would send someone to hell. some of your family need to hear the Word of God in truth. maybe some of your family thinks there is no use because they are not "chosen".
---shira4368 on 7/15/13


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Gods' word is alive and sharper than any two edged sword. The word does not need anything from us, it made all this with out us in fact it made us to. If you speak the word the way it should be presented without judgment it will produce for the Glory of God.
---Bryan on 7/15/13


"Accepting or rejecting the faith is by no means adding to it or taking away from faith." Nikki

Why not show us the verse that says what you are saying with regards to you "accepting or rejecting", that it's up to the man to choose salvation? I'm sure you'll never be able to come up with a verse. That's because Christ said this of salvation,

"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25,26

Jesus says it's IMPOSSIBLE, but you say it's possible. No brainer who's speaking the Truth, most definitely not you.
---christan on 7/15/13


That leaves very little room for us to add to it---christan

Accepting or rejecting the faith is by no means adding to it or taking away from faith.
---Nikki on 7/15/13


John 6:26_29 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Jesus is telling them to not be stiffnecked. Receiving Christ is the act of faith on the part of man. (Matthew 23:37)
---Nana on 7/15/13


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Elder, what you said is very true, it is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He sent. And if that work of God is not done, that person will never believe. The only way a person can be saved by the gospel they hear is if the Word comes to them in power and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance (1 Thess. 1:4,5). Those not saved are those that only received the gospel in Word only, and many do and the reason they reject it. Why? Because they did not receive faith from God.
For faith comes from hearing, but remember, hearing comes by the Word of God, you have to receive that spiritual hearing to receive the Truth of the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 7/15/13


"Jesus said, "This is the work of God--believe on Him Whom He has sent."
In other words, jesus is saying that faith is a work."
Cluny
Why Cluny, you sure got that one right. But, you should have continued on.
According to John 6:29 it is a work but not a work of man. It is a work of God.
---Elder on 7/14/13


Believing what Jesus said more than what you see in the natural. Sowing the Gospel.
---Bryan on 7/14/13


So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17
How can anyone who has heard the Word of God be Saved if they reject the same.
God gives the amount of faith needed to be Saved through the hearing of the Word of God. We find out who Jesus/God is through the Word. How then shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in whom they have have not heard? ... Rom 10:14.
Excuses are great only in our own confused mind but God knows our heart!
---Elder on 7/14/13


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So why do multitudes say we have to first believe in Him to receive faith? Isn't believing the act of faith?
---christan on 7/12/13
Yes believing is an act of faith

Romans 12:3 God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
---francis on 7/13/13


Jesus said, "This is the work of God--believe on Him Whom He has sent."

In other words, jesus is saying that faith is a work.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/13/13


Can two walk together, except they be agreed? Amos 3:3

Your right, No one can have faith in God unless God first reveal himself. Once he has there is a faith that must be responded to. This is why Jesus came preaching "REPENT."

The Pharisees SAW the power of God casting out Satan in Christ. To it they responded "he casts out devils by Beelzebub" They did not heed the command to repent.

Each of us is responsible for the light we've been shown or the saying of Jesus in John 3:19 is senseless. Clearly faith is a gift, it's a gift to those that agree to abase self and exalt God and the same kindness is a destruction to those that refuse. Nonetheless, Jesus draws "all" unto himself as it is written.
---Pharisee on 7/13/13


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