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Does God Even Exist

Does God even exist? Is He able to hold on to His own children? Who are His children? Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 7/14/13
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---kathr4453 on 7/19/13
interesting
worth looking into
---francis on 7/19/13


Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,
---RICHARDC on 7/19/13


---Nikki on 7/19/13
Once they crossed the Jordan, they were in the promise land. I think that is Kathr reference point

They were in the land, before they conquered it, and in the land before they were circumcised.

Their fathers which were circumcised did not set foot in the land although they were already circumcised, yet the next generation entered the land uncircumcised

I understand where she is coming from, this is worth further study.
---francis on 7/19/13


well, not really.
---atheist on 7/19/13


christan on 7/19/13: I was taking what is written in Acts 16:31-34 we are told that the JAILER believed. But we are told that ALL HIS HOUSEHOLD was baptised

We are never actually told that all the household believed

I am not saying that the household did not believe. I am only saying we are never told that, we are only told they were baptised, but we are never told they all believed. But it is possible that if there were infants, they may have been baptised before they could believe

That can be taken as a logical understanding from the text, unless your your views of Christianity prevent it - meaning that you expect that Paul would not have done that

I accept that, but that is not taken from that text
---Peter9556 on 7/19/13




Kathr, you are mistaken. Circumcision happened before the Promised land.
Joshua chapter 5.
The fall of Jericho happens in Chapter 6.

Christan, no one claims Salvation is assured because of baptism or circumcision.
Just as stated in Joshua 5:5
Though all the men who came out were circumcised, none of those born in the desert during the journey after the departure from Egypt were circumcised.

Guess what? Those circumcised didn't enter the promise land due to sin.
But those not circumcised had to be circumcised before entering the promised land.
The same for baptism.
Those baptized can lose their Salvation, but all must be baptized to have Salvation. Mark 16:16
---Nikki on 7/19/13


"...but most other groups, and I assume the RCC as well, only baptises infants on the agreement that the child will be brought up in a Christian household, etc" Peter9556

Is that biblical in context to salvation? Basically, you agree with Nikki saying, "Really? Who asked the 8 day old baby boy if he wanted to be Jewish or not?" Meaning, all Jews are saved? Really? Then, you should read,

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel... That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6-8

I rest my case.
---christan on 7/19/13


Francis, here is one you need to look up, proving faith comes first. When the children of Israel crossed over into the promise land....faith first, THEN once they all crossed over THEN they circumcised all the male's.

When I first saw that years ago, I was very excited to see the consistency of how God works. Entering the promise land is a "type" of being baptized into Christ's death and resurrection re: the new birth AFTER faith took place first to enter in. Today Being In Christ, and He in you ...He Is our promise land. And the huge grapes, milk & honey, large ear of corn etc, represent "the riches" that are IN CHRIST JESUS.....the fruit of the Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/13


Off the subject on hand, but did you know Francis that the phrase 'tongue tied' has a literal meaning?
I was born with my tongue tied. A small string of sort attached to my tongue curled underneath at the base of my front mouth. (all babies have it in the womb, but it breaks before birth)
I had it cut when I was 25 years old. Big mistake. It should have been done when I was a child.
My father still has his tongue tied.
Tongue tied makes speech very difficult, which I had speech classes as a child. (Government could have saved money and cut the thing instead. Idiots! But I am grateful for the classes.)
So, that's how the phrase came about.
---Nikki on 7/19/13


As a teenager and young adult I doubted that GOD existed. But through actually listening and reading I came to believe that GOD exists and that He loves me. Which I do not and cannot every deserve.
---Samuelbb7 on 7/19/13




Agree:0)
Here's how I see this,
Two sticks-
The nation of Ysrael split into two nations, Yudah (descendents of Yudah, Benjamin and some Levites) south and Ysrael (other 10 tribes) north.
---char on 7/19/13

Our studies agree... scriptural witnesses stand/merge like a forest.

Question above, also asks who are children. So will post these.
Hos_1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel ..... there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Deu 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, he will shew thee, thy elders, they will tell thee.
---Trav on 7/19/13


---kathr4453 on 7/19/13
Good insight
Just as circumcision represented removal of the flesh ( heart of sin)before they entered the promise land

So everyone who passed through thered sea, died the spiritual death, ate the spiritual food, drank the spiritual drink, and had their faith conformed with miracles (Hebrews 2:3-5)
yet not all entered the promise land

which goes to show that we have free will, and we can turn from God after being redeemed
---francis on 7/19/13


//Isa_44:21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant: I have formed thee, thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
---Trav on 7/19/13//

Agree:0)

Here's how I see this,

Two sticks-
The nation of Ysrael split into two nations, Yudah (descendents of Yudah, Benjamin and some Levites) south and Ysrael (other 10 tribes) north.

Jews are Hebrews (descended from Jacob) as well as Jews (from the nation of Yudah).

Ysrael: Turns the Head of God
Yerusalem: "pointing the way to completeness"

Blessings,
Shalom
---char on 7/19/13


Shira, again you were right all along. If we look at what is written in (1 Cor. 10:1,2) we can see that nowhere are we told that the cloud rained on the people, or that the dry dirt was used to baptize, or that the people jumped into the walls of water to get bapized. So we ask ourselves what is meant by baptized in those passages? We look at any concordance or Word Study Bible and been baptize unto Moses, means they were unite with him, indicating their onesness or solidarity with him as their leader. Because in water baptism and spiritual baptism, we are all united to Christ, but here those people were united unto Moses.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13


its called "not paying attention"... I get in a hurry.
---shira4368 on 7/19/13
I trade you that for spell check
---francis on 7/19/13


francis, pass under a cloud is not baptism.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13

shira4368, when you study this, you are going to run into a serious problem:

This is a one of a kind verse
I do not know of any other bible writers who comment on the crossing of the red sea as baptism

Because there are no other biblical references, I just accept this verses as is.

No thanks to nikki, I have to wear undies. This one of a kind verse is not worth getting my undies in a bunch over. It cannot be supported line upon line
---francis on 7/18/13


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Michael, please provide your evidence//
today, those who submit themselves to water baptism believing that it is necessary in order for God to be satisfied are also placing their trust back under a conditional system originating from the law.

Paul teaches we have been delivered from the curse of the law with its requirements. Today we have a more glorious testimony of the grace of God, which is to believe in the one baptism of Eph 4:5. Water baptism is only for those who are under the dispensation of the kingdom given to Israel, and who were ignorant of the revelation of the mystery given to Paul. It is not through water baptism but by the spiritual baptism of Eph 2:12 that we can proclaim,
---michael_e on 7/19/13


francis, I'm not tongue tied either. there is a better phrase and its called "not paying attention". that describes me to a T. the worst thing about me is I get in a hurry. I was born in a hurry and haven't slowed down yet.
---shira4368 on 7/19/13


1 Corinthians 10:1-2 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
So, all the Israelites went through the ordeal and deliverance of this event (which involved crossing through the water) by virtue of their identification with their leader, Moses.

Another crossing was the Jordan, entering the promise land. Moses was gone, and no one was baptized into Joshua.

Circumcision resumed after they entered in the Promise Land.

Crossing the water in both places represent death to the old. Just like the Flood, and Peter again makes this same comparison.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/13


Shira, you are absolutely correct. The baptism mentioned was not any kind of baptisms that have been mentioned here. All one has to do is get a word study Bible and look the word baptism which is "Baptizo" and they would know that been baptized into Moses is not water baptism, or spiritual baptism, or baptism unto death, but that to baptize in the general signification means to be indentified with. Water baptism indentifies us with Christ, this baptism in (1 Cor. 10:1.2) indentified the people with Moses.
As far as water baptism is concern, a person has to believe first and then be baptized. Not baptized and then you believe. Because getting baptized with water does not make anyone believe.
---Mark_V. on 7/19/13


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Paul clarified saying ..... but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6,8
Are there two Israel? Go figure...
---christan on 7/16/13

There are two...parts to the whole. The Sth House and the divorced Nth House.
The seed promise? Gen_17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Sarah being too old conceived. GOD formed her child. GOD formed YAHshua.
Isa_44:21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant: I have formed thee, thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
---Trav on 7/19/13


---shira4368 on 7/18/13
I am glad to know that nothing is wrong with your mind, and that it is only that you are " tongue tied" for lack of a better phrase.
---francis on 7/18/13


francis, pass under a cloud is not baptism.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


How do you baptize an infant when he/she cannot even confess their faith and believe that they are sinners in need of salvation from Christ? Moreover, it's completely unbiblical, period.---christan on 7/18/13

Really? Who asked the 8 day old baby boy if he wanted to be Jewish or not?
---Nikki on 7/18/13


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michael_e on 7/18/13:WAS. In time past water baptism was needed, but now NOT

Michael, please provide your evidence

If you wish to throw away water baptism, you must throw away the Nicene Creed, which was the agreed view on what Christians believed.

If you throw that away, you must throw away the New Testament away as well

Nicene is older than the New Testament, so if you throw away the Nicene (which lists 'One baptism for the forgiveness of sins') then you must also throw away the New Testament
---Peter9556 on 7/18/13


//Baptism was needed as Jesus ordered in Mark 16:16. Believe and be Baptized //
Key word is WAS. In time past water baptism was needed, but now NOT
---michael_e on 7/18/13


Christan: Some of your accusations, while based on a good, Biblical view, have cases in the Bible where things were done differently.

I mean your accusation against Nikki about baptising babies.

We see at least one case in the Bible (Acts 16:31-34).

Now here we are never told how young the 'household' (HNJV) was - it could include infants. And we are not sure how much they could believe - but we are completely sure they were baptised - whatever their ability or lack thereof to understand Christ

I am not sure in the RCC, but most other groups, and I assume the RCC as well, only baptises infants on the agreement that the child will be brought up in a Christian household, etc
---Peter9556 on 7/18/13


"That is silly for the Ethiopian to get out of his chariot and jump into water after he was Saved."
Hummm.... really. To make that statement you must reject what the scripture says.
Acts 8:26-39
The Ethiopian's question, "Here is water, what doth hinder me to be baptized?" Phillips answer, "If thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest."
This proves that belief and trust in Jesus (salvation) comes first. Then comes baptism.
A wedding ring does not make you married. It was designed to show you are married. Baptism does not save.
To believe otherwise is to be lost.
---Elder on 7/18/13


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Nikki, you're of the RC persuasion that's simply rooted in paganism, pretending to be Christian. Your faith teaches you to baptise babies even though it's explicitly taught in the Bible that baptism is "believe and be baptise". That's why it makes no sense to you.

How do you baptise an infant when he/she cannot even confess their faith and believe that they are sinners in need of salvation from Christ? Moreover, it's completely unbiblical, period.

And your understanding of the Ethiopian is totally ridiculous and erroneous. Go read the Scripture and it reveal that he was reading the Scriptures when Philip was instructed to teach him. The sequence is clear, he believed and asked to be baptised.
---christan on 7/18/13


francis, nothing wrong with my mind but sometimes I don't know how to word things.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


francis, I came up with that sort of stuff because someone posted that israelites crossing of the red sea was baptism. I said it can't be because the isralites crossed on dry ground. I meant my baptism was wet because I was dunked in the water. my point was how can someone be baptised if there is no water? you also told me to study my bible in which my reply was "I do"
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


can I say israel was forgiven...not redeemed.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


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Baptism today is an act of acknowledgement that the sinner has been saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ, period. A sinner is baptized because he has been saved and not to be saved.---christan on 7/18/13

That's news to all the Apostles and the Ethiopian Eunuch.

That is silly for the Ethiopian to get out of his chariot and jump into water after he was Saved.
Plus, if this was true, why didn't Phillip explain to him that it wasn't needed since he was already Saved? After all, he explained Jesus to him from the OT.

Could it be because he still wasn't saved? Baptism was needed as Jesus ordered in Mark 16:16. Believe and be Baptized
I think Phillip who was there with Jesus would know more than you.
---Nikki on 7/18/13


francis, you flip flop your 'baptism' theory
you don't even believe that Christ is God,
---christan on 7/18/13

Not going to talk with you about the baptism unto Moses, you are ignorant on the subject, you just found out about it yesterday when I posted it
Study it first, remove some ignorance from yourself, then talk about it. All you can do it bray like a donkey on the subject because you are ignorant on it

Now show ONE text where i have ever said that Jesus is not God
---francis on 7/18/13


francis, you flip flop your 'baptism' theory like one changing his soiled underwear. Baptism is synonymous to only Christianity and when Israel crossed the parted sea that God miraculously separated, that was merely symbolic of baptism that was to come when Christ came.

Baptism today is an act of acknowledgement that the sinner has been saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ, period. A sinner is baptised because he has been saved and not to be saved.

Anyways, you don't even believe that Christ is God, so why are you even discussing about baptism? Are you trying to be saved by baptising? "You brood of vipers, who told you to flee from the wrath that's to come?"
---christan on 7/18/13


Christan, no one is born of the spirit first and THEN justified.

We are FIRST justified by His Blood, AND THEN Saved By His LIFE. The SAVED by "HIS LIFE" part is your Born Again part or Quickened TOGETHER with Christ, being raised a NEW CREATURE or BORN AGAIN Creature.

Scripture makes THAT perfectly clear.
---kathr4453 on 7/18/13


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---shira4368 on 7/18/13

shira436 I am not sure if it is your age that is affecting
your mind or if you have an illness, but I never said that i did not need to study.

If your mind was working right, you would be able to deduce that it is only because I study that when you asked me: francis, when moses crossed the red sea, it was dry. there was not even mud because God said it was dry. baptism is wet. at least mine was. where do you come up with this sort of stuff?
---shira4368 on 7/17/13

I was able to give you the text without difficulties because I am always studying.

I see where other people have told you that your responses are a little off
---francis on 7/18/13


well mr. self righteous francis doesn't need to study? well, I do. that is how I learn.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


Shira, you are correct. the Israelis were not water baptized, dirt baptized, or Spirit baptized as they went through the parted water in ( 1 Cor. 12:1,2). The word baptized is ( Baptizo), has many meanings depending on the context of the passage. It reads'
"...I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea." ( 1 Cor. 10:1-2)
They were baptize unto Moses. Israel was immersed, not in the sea, but "into Moses" indicating their oneness, or solidarity, with him as their leader. There is baptism unto death for Christ, when all die together for Him, and a resurrection of the dead for the same cause.
---Mark_V. on 7/18/13


I need to dig a little in this matter.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13

This is what more people need to be doing.
When you run across a biblical statement that you are not familiar with, dig more into it.

Unlike christan who started to critize something he doe snot understand, and does not yet know about, shira4368 chooses to look into it

Good job shira4368 see matthew henry commentary on the matter
---francis on 7/18/13


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nikki, the cloud was God and he talked to moses as if a friend. no one has ever seen the face of God. since God dried up the red sea, I need to dig a little in this matter. dry ground is not baptism. Egyptians were drowned so God parted the water and the ground was dry but when pharaoh went thru it God drowned them.
---shira4368 on 7/18/13


But if you disagree,I am truly curious.
---Nikki on 7/18/13
She does not disagree, this may just be new to her

christan on 7/17/13
These things seem to be above your head
first you deny that they were ALL baptized as thebible says, then you tell me that baptism does not save, whcih I did not sya it sis

It is clear that all who passed through the red sea were all baptized unto Moses.
So on this topic, i will no longer be talking to you unless you get your thoughts together, and can agree with the BIBLE that they were ALL baptized.
---francis on 7/18/13


Francis, when moses crossed the red sea, it was dry,,where do you come up with this sort of stuff?--shira4368 on 7/17/13

The fathers of the Church for centuries understood 1 Cor 10:1-2 as Israel were baptized when they walked through the Red Sea on dry land.

But if you disagree, please tell me what you think 1 Cor 10:1-2 means?
I am truly curious.
---Nikki on 7/18/13


"Although they were all baptized what happened: FREE WILL" francis

Ah, now i see your understanding a little clearer. You actually believe that baptism of a man will save him but in his own act of freewill, he can decide to not want to be saved. Wow!

If anything it confirms is, baptism does not save unless you're "born of the Spirit" and then "justified by faith"!

You keep kicking and shouting "FREEWILL" but where does it say so in the Holy Bible that all who died but the two, used their 'FREEWILL" to disobey God? If anything, it confirms how stupid your "FREEWILL" theology is. Imagine, someone choosing to want to go to hell instead of heaven.
---christan on 7/17/13


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Psalm 14:1
The fool says in his heart, There is no God.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatand shudder.
---bike on 7/17/13


---shira4368 on 7/17/13
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,

1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

Does that answer your question?
---francis on 7/17/13


//I see Israel, I see all the forgiveness of God but I also see how God has punished them.--shira4368 on 7/16/13//
//Nikki on 7/17/13//

I Agree.

Ysrael:"Turns the Head of God"
Yerusalem:"pointing the way to completeness"
Isaiah 43 (all)
But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name,

(thou art mine.)

11-12"I, even I, am the Lord, and beside Me there is no savior
"I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore

(ye are My witnesses)," saith the Lord,

("that I am God")

Shalom
---char on 7/17/13


francis, when moses crossed the red sea, it was dry. there was not even mud because God said it was dry. baptism is wet. at least mine was. where do you come up with this sort of stuff?
---shira4368 on 7/17/13


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---christan on 7/17/13

LOL it is your understanding that is foolish
They were ALL baptized because they all went through the red sea AT THE SAME TIME, and ALL ate the spiritual bread, and all drank the same spiritual water. Only two of the original people who left Egypt made it into the promise land

Although they were all baptized what happened:
FREE WILL

Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which [if] a man do, he shall even live in them, and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
---francis on 7/17/13


francis, I'm going to prove to you that your understanding of the verses from 1 Corinthians 10:2-4 is erroneous. The "all baptized" does not include everyone of Israel that crossed the Red Sea.

Aaron had two sons, Nadab and Abihu - read Leviticus 10 and see what God did to them. The same was of Korah, his family and company in Numbers 16. The 12 spies that went across to Canaan, ten were destroyed by God for their unbelief.

Mind you, these were all Jews and yet God Almighty destroyed them. So what becomes of your understanding of the "all" you so foolishly imply? Isn't the "all" then referring to only God's elect?

That's how foolish your understanding is of the Scriptures.
---christan on 7/17/13


Only a small remnant of Israelites received redemption from theirs sins unto salvation.
---christan on 7/16/13

1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat,

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

SALVATION WAS OFFERED TO THEM ALL
All Baptized, ALL received spirit food, ALL drank from spiritual rock, the difference is some being saved, and some being lost FREE WILL!!!
---francis on 7/16/13


servant I wasn't telling you that you were wrong. I was comparing believers because God forgives us over and over. I would think that God would forgive His people over and over but it still don't keep God from the punishment. God has punished Israel many times. I'm sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I never meant it like that.
---shira4368 on 7/16/13


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Israel reminds me of a Christian. we are God's people but he has to forgive us everyday because we sin in the flesh. I see Israel, I see all the forgiveness of God but I also see how God has punished them.--shira4368 on 7/16/13

I agree with you. Everytime I read the OT, I see how my life is just like Israel.
---Nikki on 7/17/13


Bro. Christan, thank you. The Israel after the flesh is not going to be saved. The Israel in the Spirit will. "They are not all Israel who are of Israel" (Rom. 9:6).
There is an "Israel after the flesh" (1 Cor. 10:18) and "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16) made up of Jewish people and Gentiles who believe in the Messiah. To apply the "all Israel" which "will be saved" to a group of Jews or Israelis who are separated from God's Church is to deny the Lords breaking the wall down at the Cross (Eph 2:11-16).
Believing non-jews were "once Gentiles" aliens from the commonwealth of Israel" but now in Christ Jesus, Jews and Gentiles have become One.
---Mark_V. on 7/17/13


"I'm sorry Mark, but there's Israel being redeemed twice. I wasn't speaking of present tense, that was misunderstood." A servant

The redemption Israel received in the OT was from slavery in Egypt/Babylon. Only a small remnant of Israelites received redemption from theirs sins unto salvation. You fool yourself by thinking that the whole nation of Israel received salvation. God destroyed multitudes of Israelites in the OT!

Paul clarified saying "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel... That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." Romans 9:6,8

Are there two Israel? Go figure...
---christan on 7/16/13


Israel as a nation has never been redeemed.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/13

Deuteronomy 15:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.


1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea,

1 Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat,

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
---francis on 7/16/13


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Shira,

You asked when Israel had been stupid and then talked about how many times they had been redeemed. How could they need redemption if they had never been stupid? Why do you plague me for no reason? I have never attacked any of you, I have said everything plainly and in love, and backed up everything I've said. If any of you have reason to disagree with anything I've said, then tell me. All I get is everyone telling me I'm wrong because they said so.
---A_servant on 7/16/13


Exodus 6:6
Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

Isaiah 43:1,

But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine.

I'm sorry Mark, but there's Israel being redeemed twice. I wasn't speaking of present tense, that was misunderstood.
---A_servant on 7/16/13


Israel as a nation has never been redeemed. To this day they are still lost. Many individuals from the Old Testament were saved, the same way they are saved in the New Testament. By grace through faith. Israel and Israel only received the oracles of God. The gospel was never proclaimed to the other nations. Only Israel was chosen to carry the gospel. All others died in their sins, woman and children. Salvation was open for all gentiles in the New Testament. The other nations were wicked, yet so were the Israelites with their idol worshipping. They constantly rebelled against God. The children of God are those who are born of God. Not of the flesh, but of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/13


"Why pray for anyone since GOD's has already decided." Samuelbb7

Spoken like a real fool and unbeliever. The reason a Christian prays for God's mercy and grace is he doesn't know who God has chosen.

And for this very reason, the sinner believes that he has received God's mercy and grace, we too pray that God shows the very same mercy and grace to our unbelieving family and "friends", in this case, the enemies of God.

Praying to God Almighty magnifies His sovereignty and glory that those whom He's going to save has already been decided. But do you know who He has chosen? Even Paul doesn't know who God has chosen, but did he discourage the Christians from praying?
---christan on 7/16/13


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Samuel, you say,
"Good question. Why pray for anyone since GOD's has already decided. In fact why send out missionaries since GOD will force those he has chosen to be saved to be saved"
Your asking a believer, who is depended upon God for all things, not to go to God. As believers we have communion with Him and depend on Him. We have no clue who is going to be saved. So what do we do as believers? We depend on Him and His works as He is bringing the lost to spiritual life. What you need to do is get off your butt and witness to others, so that those whom God has chosen from before the foundation of the world to be saved will get saved. God brings His elect to salvation through the gospel Truth preached to them.
---Mark_V. on 7/16/13


Hi, Samuel . . . God does not force. His grace changes a person, gently and humbly by means of Jesus so gentle and lowly in heart in us and our new emotions gentle and humble in His love. We do not will this to happen, not with our self-willed character > "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

It is not wise to give our own foolish wills the glory for what only God can do.

And now that we are in Jesus, God includes us in His success, by having us pray in His love for all He does. This exercises us in His love so we get stronger in love, no thanks to our own will capability.
---willie_c: on 7/16/13


when I look at Israel how many times they have been redeemed I think this: Israel reminds me of a Christian. we are God's people but he has to forgive us everyday because we sin in the flesh. I see Israel, I see all the forgiveness of God but I also see how God has punished them. that nation has been thru the fire. all their neighbors hate her but it seems the jews are migrating back to Israel. I see Israel as a peaceful country.
---shira4368 on 7/16/13


Mark, why would you bother praying for your son NOW if Gods decision on whether or not your son would be saved was made over 7000 years ago? Jasheradan

Good question. Why pray for anyone since GOD's has already decided. In fact why send out missionaries since GOD will force those he has chosen to be saved to be saved?
---Samuelbb7 on 7/15/13


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yes
yes
me but you ain't
Jn 6:44
---Believer on 7/14/13

LOL! Careful, Believer. Youre gonna upset Mark/Christan by twisting his own doctrine around on him.

He still has yet to answer the question of how he knows for certain that he has been predestined to eternal life and not eternal death.
---LindaH on 7/15/13


MarkV, I know you love your son. My question was, do you think God loves your son and wants to save him?
---Jasheradan on 7/13/13

Why do you think I pray to God for him? Because I know only God can change his heart towards Christ. Only God can give him the faith to believe.
---Mark_V. on 7/13/13

I don't know if my son will be saved or not. Or whether you will either. I don't know the mind of God and who He chose before the foundation of the world.
---Mark_V. on 7/14/13



Mark, why would you bother praying for your son NOW if Gods decision on whether or not your son would be saved was made over 7000 years ago?
---Jasheradan on 7/15/13


\\How about every book in the Bible (except Esther which doesn't mention God). \\

The Greek LXX version, preserved by the Orthodox Church and accepted as authoritative, does mention God.

In fact, it's an older version than the present Hebrew Masoretic version.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/15/13


servant, how is Israel being stupid? just wondering what I missed.
---shira4368 on 7/15/13


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I'm sorry, did you just ask if God exists and proceed to ask evidence in Scripture (seriously?)? How about every book in the Bible (except Esther which doesn't mention God).

Is He able to hold on to his children? Read Judges, Israel being stupid and being redeemed again and again.

Who are His children?
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus
---A_servant on 7/15/13


francis & Josef, you forget one critical thing, "God is Spirit"! He's not flesh! You and I are of flesh. Scripture explicitly declares "the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God", ie the commandments of God is spiritual, not of the flesh! How does a sinful fleshly man not born of the Spirit even fulfill the commands of God?

Then again, do you even get to choose to be "born of the Spirit"? Not according to Christ, who declared, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

"They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God..." Romans 9:8
---christan on 7/15/13


Does God even exist? Is He able to hold on to His own children? Who are His children?

Since all are His children, and not all go to Heaven, HE didn't hold to His own Children.

He allowed some to let go of Him.
---Nikki on 7/15/13


"Does God even exist?"
"The heavens declare the glory of God, And the firmament shows His handiwork." Psa 19:1
"Is He able to hold on to His own children?
Jesus said "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand." Jhn 10:28,29
"Who are His children?"
"By this we know that we [are] the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. John 5:2,3
His commandments are as simple as this, "Mat 22:37-40--And obeying those commandments, is the work of the Father in us.
---josef on 7/15/13


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Isaiah 1:2_3 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider."
---Nana on 7/15/13


Who are His children? Give Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 7/14/13
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Rev 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 7/14/13


yes
yes
me but you ain't
Jn 6:44
---Believer on 7/14/13


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