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Loving To Kill In War

Is the love of God demonstrated when He commanded Israel to kill the Canaanites, Amorites, etc. including woman and children? provide Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 7/20/13
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"Sinners meeting divine terms are released from condemnation and enter into divine favor with God." That is not biblical. No one lost can meets the terms of God, only Jesus could and does for the sinner."
Mark
Oh ye that lacks knowledge of God's ways, here is God's divine ways. What does Rom 10:9-13 say?
Then Matt 11:28, John 10:9, Rev 22:17.
I am the door, if any man enter in he shall be saved, John 10:9.
He that cometh to me I will not cast out, John 6:37.
He saves those that COME to Him, Heb 7:25.
Try to explain those verses away Mark.
---Elder on 8/6/13


Elder, many a pulpit have preach a god that is in submission to sinful man. But God is on His Throne and He rules all actions of man, nature, the heavens, the devil, the demons etc. Nothing or no one is outside the purposes of God. If they are, then they are more powerful then God. God controls the future because nothing can exist without God. Here is the word of God,
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35) because
"There is many devices in a man's heart, nevertheless the counsel of the Lord that shall stand" (Prov. 19:21). The cause of all things is the will of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13


Pure lineage...King of kings (line of Judah), lords of Lord (line of levi)

The purpose (Salvation) being made possible:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Num 13:33 "And there we saw giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.."

*Amalekites: offspring of the lineage of Esau from intermarriage with the Amalekites
*Jebusites:founded the heathen city of Jerusalem.
*Jebus: the name of Jerusalem in its state of (unclean)
*Jebusites founded Jerusalem - five different peoples with heathen gods
---char on 8/6/13


Elohyims Function performs - Savior.

Nothing interferred His Plan:His Word became Flesh - Immanuel (God with us)- Ysha (YHVH is Savior).
Death/ Resurrection - repentance/remission (complete action).

Lineage kept pure King-line of Judah to Lord of Lords-levitical
Repentance is required.

But: Wicked"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto judgment of the great day." (Jude)

For the record: "unto this day"

That Very day God opened eyes,hearts,ear of the Israelites
Deut 29:4 "unto this day."

Purpose: Deut 29:24-26
God Exist True-Just -Fair

Shalom
---char on 8/6/13


Elder,I have studied the nature, character and attributes of God for over 14 years.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13

The FACT IS MARKV, you claim your old sinful man was rebirthed, or given life while still in it's sinful state. One of the reasons God removed Adam and Eve from the Garden so they wouldn't eat the tree of Life, is because God did not want them to live in a sinful state for all eternity. Yet you claim that is what God is doing through Jesus now...rebirthing your old man, SO THAT you can believe. Anyone who makes such a wrong statement cannot KNOW God. And studying His attributes will never give you the wisdom you need.

Knowledge tells us a tomato is a fruit, but WISDOM tells you, you never put a tomato in a fruit salad.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/13




The purpose (Salvation) being made possible:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Pure lineage...King of kings (line of Judah), lords of Lord (line of levi)

Numbers 13:28 "Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there."

29 "The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains, and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan."
---char on 8/6/13


Elder, you call me prideful. I've studied all the topics you mentioned, but most importantly I have studied the nature, character and attributes of God for over 14 years. And let me say that at no time does God stop been God so that man can do what he wants. God is in control of all things. When the elect of God are born, they are born in a lost condition just like everyone else. They will be called, they will be brought to spiritual life,
"Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, whom He called, this He also Justified, and whom He justified, He also glorified" (Rom. 8:30).
For we know all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" Rom. 8:28.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13


Elder 2: You say:
" Sinners meeting divine terms are released from condemnation and enter into divine favor with God." That is not biblical. No one lost can meets the terms of God, only Jesus could and does for the sinner. Here is what you present,
A jesus who hopes and wait's for you to love Him and accept Him for who He is and what He did on the cross. Because as you say, He cannot force anyone to love Him are accept Him. He came to save that which was lost but He really failed because people will not let Him, only those who let Him will He save. You present a God who has to change His plan over and over through time because the plans He made before the foundation of the world failed. That is not the God of Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13


Mark, now you are showing that you can't even think on your own. God is all powerful. That again proves your theory is wrong.
Why don't you do some serious studies in the doctrines of Hamartiology, Man, Salvation and God. Then you may find the truth.
Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit through the Word. Your theory leaves out both.
Justification is a judicial relation of the sinner to God. Sinners meeting divine terms are released from condemnation and enter into divine favor with God. If God forced these items there would have been no reason for Jesus to have died.
But you will never understand that because of your pride.
---Elder on 8/5/13


Elder, you say,
"You claim that God is Sovran and all-powerful. Yet you present Him as too weak to give mankind a freewill. You refuse to answer common sense questions to your theory"
I present Him as Sovereign and all powerful. It is you who wants to present Him weak and helpless. He is Omnipotent. which means Almighty, infinite in power. Having unlimited Authority. What you suggest really is for God to stop been Omnipotent, stop been God for the sole purpose of giving sinful man a free will. Ominpotent is synonyms with Powerful, mighty, Supreme. and the opposite you want me to believe, the Antonyms, meaning, impotent, powerless, helpless every time man uses his free will. The God of the Bible never stops been Supreme.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13




Mark, you lack in using Scripture properly and in context. You try to make Scripture "sound" like it is teaching something that it doesn't. That is the way you present Scripture most of the time.
You claim that God is Sovran and all-powerful. Yet you present Him as too weak to give mankind a freewill. You refuse to answer common sense questions to your theory. In your theory to maintain His strength He must force certain people to Heaven and others to Hell.
You, sir, should be sitting down, for you lie to yourself. People, least of all me, don't jump on you because of "your truth." It happens because of your misconceptions and misuse of Scripture and attitude towards those who disagree with you
---Elder on 8/5/13


Did God love the world? He created it, He sure did, (John 3:16) He loved what He created. Did God show the same love to the nations He had slaughtered, that He showed for Israel? We are talking about woman and children? People you guys say had free will. How about Pharaoh, Did God show the same love to all the servants of Pharaoh? They, you suppose, had free will? Or does their free will not count only yours? Is this free will only for the people of today?
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13


Elder, you said,
" Maybe one day you will see why people react to you like they do. (React is the key word here.)"
I'm seating down when I write. And I check what I say when answering. The real reason people react to me the way they do, is because they don't like for me to tell them it was God who saved them. They demand their rights against God's. They have believed a lie for so many years, how in the world are they going to give up their free will? so they jump at me for giving them the Truth. I show Scriptures, an they (those that react badly) respond with words that come from their free will hearts. The fruits of the salvation they really have. Because of that salvation I will continue to hear more complains everyday.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13


Mark just read this blog and see what you say to people not just myself. You have been doing it all along. So stop trying to be coy and cute, 'cause it ain't working.
Plus, here you go again. I never said you were mad. I said you were upset.
Is there anything that people can do to please you?
You need to sit alone and just read some of your own post. Maybe one day you will see why people react to you like they do. (React is the key word here.)
---Elder on 8/4/13


Rom. 10:3. ---Mark_V. on 8/4/13

This does not mean that Christ did away with the law Matthew 5:17

The law has never been able to make anyone righteous,
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

However, those who are declared righteous by believing God and having God place the Spirit of God in their hearts do keep the laws
Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness mean that the Law pointed to Jesus for righteousness
---francis on 8/4/13


Elder, you also said,
"You seem to like to try to mislead folks." Can you show me where I misled someone? I want to live up to your righteousness Elder, and I cannot do it unless you show me where. Then said
" You like to say anything any kind of way and then get upset because someone questions you on it."
Sorry Elder you might be wrong in this one for the first time, I never once have gotten mad because someone answers from Scripture. In fact I never get mad as you might think. I love for people to answer for it encourages me to study even more. What I see wrong is that those who speak for free will attack me personally, and you been righteous cannot lie before God.
---Mark_V. on 8/4/13


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Mark, you don't want to live up to my, Kather's, Jesus' or anyones standards but your own self-righteousness. God calls it like putrefied rags from surgeries, good for nothing not even to be recycled.
Your self-righteous/pity apology proves it.
You condemn everyone who disagrees with you even though you are wrong.
Ol' Mark wrote some good things about Elder until Elder showed him wrong more than once. Now Mark wants to assassinate him.
You are like a shotgun. You scatter pellets everywhere trying to make a point and still don't hit the target. I think it has to do with a non-desire to understand Biblical teaching and dedication to Christ.
Think about that for a while and not so much about how great you are.
---Elder on 8/4/13


Elder, I apologize to you for not living up to your righteous standards. Not everyone can be like you. I am but a sinner saved by Grace, I am sorry I cannot reach your level of righteousness. I suppose I will see your name like I see Kathr's every time I write something, because I did not agree on your free will. Sorry but I stand for God, but have failed you, someone who has been here a long time and knows everything. I am just beginning to learn, maybe one day I will reach your standard of righteousness, but not today.
---Mark_V. on 8/4/13


Mark you continually add to the Scripture to try to make your ungodly points. I am not the only one who sees you do that.
You call people liars and other slanderous names then whine and cry like a spoiled child when you are exposed. You are no different than any other cult member trying to cover his tracts.
If you are going to quote Scripture then do it don't add your own comments in the passage.
You seem to like to try to mislead folks. You like to say anything any kind of way and then get upset because someone questions you on it. I posted just what you said more than once.
You have changed Scripture to suit your taste to try to prove your point. So, really, who is the liar again?
---Elder on 8/3/13


mark_V says the law is a smoke screen:
Mark_V Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not, And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? Jeremiah 7:7-10

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
---francis on 8/4/13


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francis, you are no different then Jerry, you build a whole lot of laws so that in the end you can bring out your Saturday Sabbath. All the talk about the law (smoke screen) is for that purpose.

Here is what the Word of God says to all those who believe,
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth" (Rom. 10:3). Do you believe?
---Mark_V. on 8/4/13


---Mark_V. on 8/3/13
God's law a smoke screen?

01: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
02: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
03: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
04: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
05: Honour thy father and thy mother:
06: Thou shalt not kill.
07: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
08: Thou shalt not steal.
09: Thou shalt not bear false witness
10: Thou shalt not covet

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 8/3/13


Jerry, you are no different then all the rest. like Kathr, you tell others of statements I never made. Here you lie again and say,
"Elder: MarkV is of the interpretive school of biblical exegesis. He thinks that Jesus came to save us from THE LAW - not from SIN"
I never made a statement to that effect, and you do not know what is in my heart or mind. All you want to do is introduce the Law, so that you can throw accusations at those who do not do Saturday Sabbath. Just another smoke screen.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/13


Elder, if I quote a scripture I will give you the Scripture passage. If I make a comment it is my comment. You want to twist the Truth around and argue for no good reason, then go ahead. You receive the Truth and no matter what Scripture is given to you, you will fight for the lie. When you should be an honest Christian looking for the truth not looking for an argument like the others. This are suppose to be godly discussions. If Jesus came to save His people from their sins, and many already are in hell, those were not His people. It is very simple. You do not have to believe it, if you don't want, you have that right. I am not making you belief it. I only present the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/13


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Elder: MarkV is of the interpretive school of biblical exegesis. He thinks that Jesus came to save us from THE LAW - not from SIN. I guess he would interpret Jesus' comment to the Adulteress of "Go and sin no more" to be "Go sin it up, I've got your back".



---jerry6593 on 8/3/13


Mark you said, "He came to save His people from their sin" not try to save them but actually does."
Mark_V.

I asked you where the Bible says this.
You come back with, ""Thou shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21)"
That is not what you said at first.
You continue to quote things not in Scripture. When you are called on it then you try to mop up. This shouldn't be that way.
---Elder on 8/2/13


Elder, you asked: Where does the Bible state, that Jesus actually saves His people?"
"Thou shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21)He didn't say might save them, but actually save them. We know by His word that Jesus goes after that which was lost."
Then say,
" Just like you claim the lost experence the Power of God." The lost experience the power of God once they are made alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:4,5). Don't you experience the power of God? then say,
"No one is "His people" until they are Saved" His people are His sheep.
"The good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep" ( John 10:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 8/2/13


" Unbelievers were under the power of satan, but when made alive he begins to understand the power of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/2/13
Those born of God, their causes are that he is doing the desires of God.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13
s. He came to save His people from their sin" not try to save them but actually does.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13

Seems to me that if you really believed those things, then you would also believe in the power of God to keep people from the act of sin, and living in sin ( I DO)

unless of course even those who are born of God have the choice ( free will) to connit sin, whcih is opposed to teh will of God and purpose of Jesus
---francis on 8/2/13


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"He came to save His people from their sin" not try to save them but actually does."
Mark_V.
Where does the Bible state this? If you say no where you will be right.
What happened to Israel?
You appear to really be confused about God's Salvation. Just like you claim the lost experence the Power of God.
No one is "His people" until they are Saved. They are unbelievers, which on another blog you claimed there was no such thing.
Com'on Mark, with this many flaws in your misunderstanding of Salvation it should make you wonder and be concerned.
---Elder on 8/2/13


Shira, you ask me something before you put me on the judgment line,
"markv, please tell me how the unsaved has received the power of God?" When God through His power
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others" Unbelievers were under the power of satan, but when made alive he begins to understand the power of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/2/13


God's wrath is a terror to the wicked....God's mysterious methods are not always understandable to us. But God, He lives, and He does not ask us to understand them, rather, He asks us to obey them. His instructions....I tried to find as good a answer for you that I could. Joshua 5.
---catherine on 8/1/13


It is God and God alone who is Salvation.

He has declared it spoken/written and performed/performs - Salvation.

The adversary twist the Word of God to void the very function of believing.

God has spoken/written/perform -In Spirit - He alone is Holy.

He alone provides it by/with/in - His Word.Jn1:1-15

Believing that does not mean you are saving yourself.

It is the whole purpose of HIS WORD In/Flesh -Y'sha-
God "confirming/testifing of His Word in flesh - the ONLY path that produces Faith--to/of/for Him without---Void

Jn3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
---char on 8/1/13


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Aka, the reason I answered you with what I did was because you first said,
"Markv, do you even read what you write in light of scripture. You try to keep turning this into God's will versus man's will (free will)." I sure do and the reason why is because that is what many are saying, that they have free will when they don't. They have a will but it is not free. You did agree with me, but I answered your first remarks. This might not be important to you, but it is important to all because it is God who gets the glory for our salvation. If man gets the glory there is no salvation. It is all of God, for with men salvation is impossible.
---Mark_V. on 8/1/13


Jerry, you say,
"These "God loves me but He hates you" predestination types never use either the dictionary...." your wrong, just because God chooses some and not others does not mean He hates them. About using the dictionary, I do use it and also check to see if the dictionary is correct against the word of God. Then say,
"But somehow they are quite certain that they are among the "elect"
God ask everyone of us to make our election sure. I can only make my election sure, not yours see (1 Thess. 1:4,5) and (2 Peter 1:10) " Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and elecion sure...,". I don't know what is in your heart. I can only guess.
---Mark_V. on 7/31/13


Markv,
Where did I ever say man's will is free? I said when one lives in God's free will, he lives in freedom. Again in Scripture, it says that some reject the truth they once heard. Choice and free will are not the same thing.
---aka on 7/31/13


Some Jews took up stones to stone Jesus and what did Jesus do? (John 10)
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father, for which of those works do ye stone me?
He also said, If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."
You have to love the simplicity by which Jesus spoke to unbelievers, even when they wished him harm! He basically stated the facts and then asked, for which of those works do ye stone me?
Why the insistence with those unbelievers? He saw them as lost sheep, Luke 23:34. Guess what, "And many believed on him there."
---Nana on 7/30/13


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Mark V, as usual you have twisted the meaning of someone's post, bible verse, or, in this case, a word definition. It is you that does not understand the second definition. Try taking it to a person that understand English to try to enlighten you about its meaning.
---Steveng on 7/30/13


Aka, you say,
"You try to keep turning this into God's will versus man's will (free will). I contend that it is God's will (free will) versus man's will.... What you said is true, everyone makes choices. But man's will is not free. Scripture tells us the will of man is in bondage to sin:
"Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin" (Rom. 6:6). Check (Gal. 4:3)
"Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world" all unbelievers are dead in Trespasses and sins, spiritually dead to all things of God, the same death that occured to Adam in the day he sinned.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13


Steven, what you did not understand was number 2.
" 2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention." Fallen man does not fall under those conditions. His causes are that he is doing the desires of his father the devil. Those born of God, their causes are that he is doing the desires of God.
Man makes choices but there is always a reason or cause, either from Divine intervention or from the devil. That's why the Bible nowhere says, God gave man free will. He gave them a choice and man will be judge by the choices he makes. If man had a free will, every choice he made would be spontaneous, with no prior desires or reason, and God could not judge us right or wrong.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13


steveng: "I suppose it's about time someone took out the dictionary for the words "free will."

AMEN!

These "God loves me but He hates you" predestination types never use either the dictionary or the bulk of the Bible. But somehow they are quite certain that they are among the "elect".



---jerry6593 on 7/30/13


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Steven 2: you are correct, when you said, "It would be wonderful if everyone used the dictionary once in a while." but they need to understand what it says also. You did not understand the 2nd point it made. What you should do is read "The bondage of the will" by Martin Luther. That will help you concerning number 2.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13


I suppose it's about time someone took out the dictionary for the words "free will."

According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary "free will" is defined as:

1: voluntary choice or decision .

2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.

God created man to make their own decisions that's why today's world is in such a chaotic mess. Man thought he could do a better job than God. That was man's choice, that was man's will.

It would be wonderful if everyone used the dictionary once in a while.
---Steveng on 7/29/13


Markv, do you even read what you write in light of scripture. You try to keep turning this into God's will versus man's will (free will). I contend that it is God's will (free will) versus man's will. Once you hear God's will you have the choice to reject it. It says so in Scripture.

I have been saying all along that the only free will is God's will, and those that abide in Him are freed from the bondage of sin. Paul warns us not to use our freedom for occasions of the flesh. Yes, we are slaves to Christ, but in it is freedom.
---aka on 7/29/13


AKA, The only will that is free is God's. He does what He wants, and is always right. He set the standards of right or wrong. Yet
All descendants of Adam are slaves to sin. They are not free. They are dead in trespasses and sins. Romans 3:11-18 tells us they do not understand or seek after God. Their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and misery are in their ways, And the way of peace they have not known and here is why, "There is no fear of God before their eyes"Once a person comes to Christ, he is free, free from the bondage of sin and the condemnation of the law, but his will is not free, he becomes a slave to God.
"But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God,..(Rom. 6:22).
---Mark_V. on 7/29/13


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Steveng, The power of choice does not necessarily mean that you have freedom or free will. Adam and Eve chose their own will, but it was not free. The wages of choosing sin (not freedom) is death. If they were free to choose their own will, there would and should be no wage.

Only God's will is free will, anything else chosen is bondage (and that is not free will.)
---aka on 7/28/13


If one has a choice, one has a free will. The choice is to accept Jesus or reject him. That's the person's will, that's the person's choice.

As for the blog question, one scripture cannot answer the question. One must look at the overall plan.

God has a plan to get mankind back to the Garden of Eden. If the Canaanites, Amorites, etc. were not killed, they would ruin God's plan. Even the children must be killed because they grew up learning the ways of their parents, their culture.

But it is not the end of them for they shall be resurrected at the second resurrection and judged from the Book of Life for what they did on Earth.
---Steveng on 7/28/13


markv, are you saying there is no freedom in God's will. It says that in scripture and you agreed with it earlier.

now, you want to continue to pit God's will vs free will. it is one in the same. man can reject freedom in Christ.

Heb_12:25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.

do you deny scripture?

Markv, allow jesus to free you. stop rejecting his very word. man does not have free will until he quits rejecting unequivocal truth of God.
---aka on 7/28/13


Concerning the question, God's love for Israel was desplayed when God commanded Israel to slaughter all the other nations. It was love for Israel that unless the Canaanites were exterminate, the Israelites would themselves be exterminated. What about the women you might say, but as we know from the Bible the women were often the prime source of contamination (Num. 31:15,16) so everyone had to go.
---Mark_V. on 7/28/13


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MarkV: "To this day they are still lost as a nation."

No, no, NO! No one is saved corporately, and no one is lost corporately. We are saved or lost individually.
---jerry6593 on 7/24/13

Incredible times, where you guys can be right and wrong at the same time. Israel is two houses. Judah/Israel the people/country is without Christ.
The divorced Israel/Northern House of ten is redeemed. Scriptural evidence of these Lost Sheep are all around the blind men.

Corporately covenanted, corporate coverage, individual choice.

Heb_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 7/28/13


---Mark_V. on 7/28/13

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 7/28/13


AKA, there is no such thing as free will for the will is never free, and the reason those words are not found in Scripture. If they were then all the passages that speak about man dead in trespasses and sins would be meaningless. It would mean that the Word of God is a lie when it speak concerning lost man condition, because sinful man is in bondage to sin. We are told he does the desires of his father the devil, and people say it is not true, that his will is free. I do not call that free, I say that his will is doing what it wants to do and that is to sin against God. A believers will is not free either, it wants to do the desires of God, for it is in bondage to God. It is not free.
---Mark_V. on 7/28/13


Aka, very good answer you gave. ---Mark_V. on 7/27/13

thanks, markv.

so, the choice is free will given to us by God or man's will, which is a rejection of freedom.

Heb_12:25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.

selah.
---aka on 7/28/13


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francis, every post you put out you are condemning others with the written law.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13
Are you suggesting that if someone does these ten things:

1: have no other gods before Jehovah.
2: not make any graven images to worship or bow to
3: not take the name of the God in vain,
4: Remembers the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5: Honours their father and thy mother: t
6: not kill.
7: not commit adultery.
8: not steal.
9: not bear false witness
10: not covet

That that person will be condemned?
So Did God condemn the world when he gave his written ten commandments?
---francis on 7/27/13


francis, every post you put out you are condemning others with the written law.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13
Do you know that I have NEVER every told anyone that they will go to the lake of fire, and I have never told anyone that they will not be saved?

I do not condemn anyone.
I simple encourage EVERYONE to keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus

I have even pointed out several times with multiple scriptures that it is only through the power of Christ in us, the Divine Nature granted us, and the Spirit of God in us that we are able to keep the law

I wish to see no one condemned, but that all men should come to repentance and surender to God
---francis on 7/27/13


francis, every post you put out you are condemning others with the written law. Yet you are a transgressor of the law yourself. Take the log out of your own eye.


Aka, very good answer you gave.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13


markv, please tell me how the unsaved has received the power of God? sinners do not even understand the power and conviction of God. what you say is false and I just hope when you stand before God you will then and only then know what I am talking about.
---shira4368 on 7/27/13


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Hello ,Brothers(With all respect) re:Shira4368,she makes a good point when she said " not everyone has experienced the power of God."Here,lately, thank the Lord I have been winessing to aethiests, and they are completely "spiritually blind" for example I tell them,you don't realize God wakes you up, and or keeps you,allows you life,etc... Now,it been through a horrible illnesses,one guy he came to give his heart to God after 3 surgeries..Now,thank God he believes,serving God, inhis old age.
It' a miracle he was really hardcore.
Love of Jesus!
---lidia4796 on 7/27/13


//Whatever is old and evil must die, in order for there to be room for what is new and right and good of love.// will c:

it is called pruning. the old and dying leaves and branches of plants are old and dying, and they take up resources for the living. as a whole the plants do better when pruned.

markv, there is no free will. there is only God's will and if chosen, in it is freedom.

2Co_3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Only One gives the law of liberty, and the other lives in it or not.
---aka on 7/27/13


Every believer knows that God created all things in six days and rested the 7th

what does God thus command?
Exodus 20:8 remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

How can you say that you believe that Jesus / God is the creator, and not keep the sabbath?
whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Those who do not know that Jehovah is the creator, He over looks it Acts 17:29-30
---francis on 7/26/13


because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God,
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13

Romans 1:20 THE CREATION OF THE WORLD ..THE THINGS THAT ARE MADE,

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

and we get right back to keeping the sabbath again

because that is how we worship God as creator, those who keep sunday got that idea from those who worshiped the creature ( THE SUN) ratherthan the creator
---francis on 7/26/13


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francis, everyone has experienced the power of God but the wrath of God is those people, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were they thankful to God.
So the law never saves anyone. Jesus Christ saves individuals. He came to save His people from their sin" not try to save them but actually does.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


francis, not everyone has experienced the power of God.
---shira4368 on 7/26/13



Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even HIS ETERNAL POWER and Godhead, SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE:
---francis on 7/26/13


francis, not everyone has experienced the power of God. everyone has benefited from God's creation. unless you are born of the Spirit, you will never experience the power of a Holy God. I ain't fussing or "complaining, just trying to keep up with you. lol
---shira4368 on 7/26/13


---Mark_V. on 7/25/13
You seem to dismiss any chapter or verse that has the word " law" in it. Art thou the LAWLESS ONE?

Well let me add that everyone has experienced the power of God:

Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:
---francis on 7/26/13


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H. francis, your passages are talking about the law, I am talking about the gospel. people are not saved by the Law, but by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Get that right.
And millions never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. There is only one way, through Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/13


No one has EVER died with out the hope of salvation

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,

Acts 17:29 we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at,
---francis on 7/24/13


H. francis, you just do not understand, Here you say,
"No one has EVER died with out the hope of salvation"
In what world are you in? Not planet earth.
Millions upon millions have died without the gospel. I say millions because the gospel of Christ was not heard in China for hundreds of years, a country which has many people who never had a hope. The nations opposed to Israel never got the gospel either, they all died in their sins. And how about when the Holy Spirit told Paul not to go to the Gentiles, many of them died in their sins with no hope. So again you are wrong.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/13


Numbers 22:5 He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the face of the earth, and they abide over against me:

Numbers 22:6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people, for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.

As you can see, these people did have access to grace, because they did have access to the one time true prophetf of God
---francis on 7/23/13


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MarkV: "To this day they are still lost as a nation."

No, no, NO! No one is saved corporately, and no one is lost corporately. We are saved or lost individually. When any group, by their actions, has demonstrated that it is made up of individuals who have totally rejected God personally, then God mercifully destroys them to protect others from their influence. Examples include all but 8 humans in Noah's flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, and the nations you specified.

Today, we see the same depravity in some Muslim nations where women & children are indoctrinated to hate Christians and Americans, and to strap bombs to themselves to attack the innocent.
---jerry6593 on 7/24/13


To Bro.Mark,
in Jer.16:1-21.the theme:
they were disobedient to God,Idol worship,vs.20:Do men make their own Gods?
""Yes,but they are not Gods!"
vs.21."Therefore I will teach them_this time I will teach them my power and might.


God is sovereign. He can add, give, subtract , take away as He pleases! Who are we to judge?? I never question God on what He does NO more, I have seen alot. Bro.MarkV. my son died, yet , the child ( my husband fathered , lived.mercy of God..quickly my ex- he got surgery" change him to a "female"
what kind of dad would that have been for my son??
---lidia4796 on 7/23/13


Hello,One thing
I know about Israel, they ARE really strict ( with Reason! ) much Suffering! a friend I knew at church, she bible scholar,NO criminal record,yet, she NEVER was allowed into Israel.She was born in U.S., raised U.S. & England
educated best schools,never allowed her into that country.She felt so,hurt / completely changed! promiscuious behavior,depression, not long - found her dead.She wanted start a Christian mission for children.
---lidia4796 on 7/23/13


Ezekiel 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die, and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thine hand.

No one has EVER died with out the hope of salvation

Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

Remember God had men besides those of the nation of Israel who were faithful to Him and evangelized:
men like Lot, Jethro the priest of Midian, Melchizedek the priest of the most high God, The one time prophet of God: Balaam,
---francis on 7/23/13


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Shira, I don't know where you get the idea I condemn Israel. Far from it. They are just as much sinners as every country in the world. The reason they are around is only because of the love God has for Israel and His plan for those who will come to Christ from Israel for not all Israel is Israel. I support Israel the nation not because they are small or any other reason, but because God first chose to Love them over everyone else. Just like Jesus, the gospel of Jesus came through Israel, even though they rejected it.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/13


markv, Israel has suffered as a country. she is little nation in the midst of heretics that hate her. she is surrounded by bigger countries that want her blown off the face of the earth. they have said it many times. you need to pray for Israel and not condemn them. they will be judged like the rest of us.
---shira4368 on 7/22/13


But what about the love of God for those other nations? What about their free wills? The way the bible discribes God here, is that He love Israel and didn't love the other nations. Israel was evil with idols just like all the other nations. To this day they are still lost as a nation. The oracles of God were not even given to the other nations. What about this free will everyone on site talks about? It seems it didn't mean a thing against what God wanted then, and still doesn't mean a thing today. So I ask, what did the children and babies do wrong that brought about the wrath of God on them too? So does He love everyone the same?
---Mark_V. on 7/22/13


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