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Wilfully Sins All The Time

Scripture tells us that, when we are saved our sins are forgiven. If we don't believe that then we cannot feel truly 'safe' or 'saved' SO where does a person stand if, after being saved, he/she sins wilfully and regularly with NO repentance or shame?

Please respond with Answers not Questions.

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There is no such thing as " spirit man" in the bible

the terms are:
Romans 7:22 inward man:
2 Corinthians 4:16 the inward man

OR Ephesians 3:16 inner man,

I do suspect that those who use " spirit man" are attempting to communicate the same meaning

The biblical term is " spirit of man" it refers to the portion of the spirit of God which is given to every man, which sets the mind of a man to know more about God, and serve God

Romans 7:25 So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God,

Hebrews 8:10 saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind,

here is the beauty of it: we have the mind of Christ.
---francis on 8/3/13


Deny all you want, but the "inward man" is his "spirit" that's born of God's Spirit that "desires" God's law. Hence, "spirit man", get it?
---christan on 8/2/13

Our spirit is not Born Again of God's Spirit, giving US a spirit man inside.

CHRIST IN YOU, the Hope Of Glory..
The Spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST,

No longer I but CHRIST IN ME.

This is what they do not get, do not understand. They believe their "spirit man" died when Adam sinned, and believe it is RE-BIRTHED again, called re-incarnation. Horrible Horrible doctrine. And a false one that will lead you right to Hell.

"CHRIST IN YOU" is the ONLY Hope of Glory.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/13


francis, "desire" is not a noun but a verb. Whereas the "spirit" or "man" is a noun and not a verb. Simply, a verb is the action of a sentence. And "desire" is an action that's performed by the "inner/inward man". And only an "inner/inward man" that's born of the Holy Spirit can "serve the law of God" and that's because He is Spirit and so too are His laws. Get your adjective right.

As for some other here, the Holy Spirit only regenerates the dead spirit of the man, not the soul. God is not interested in saving the body made of dust. The soul receives the sanctification while the spirit sin no more because it's born of the Holy Spirit.
---christan on 8/3/13


Christan, thank you for your answer. I was going to answer him but was waiting to see what he put down. I believe he is stuck with the law everyday, he has no time to learn what the Spirit wants to reveal to our spirit. Another reason I believed he did not know was because they believe in soul sleep. They don't believe our spirits go to be with God at death. So our spirit is not a subject that he and many others belief in. That's why I was so positive francis did not know what the "inner man" was.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/13


Deny all you want, but the "inward man" is his "spirit" that's born of God's Spirit that "desires" God's law.
---christan on 8/2/13

LOL
The "inner man" is that desire inside every christian to serve God perfectly

Our ability to keep the law comes not from our flesh but from the divine nature: Christ in us
---francis on 7/31/13

you are a little slow mentally
---francis on 8/2/13




1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:


Sorry Christan , but no verse says "spirit man". That is WOF false teaching. The soul is the inner man.

The first man Adam is a living soul.
The soul that sinneth IT shall die. Jesus came to save our SOUL!
---kathr4453 on 8/2/13


That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, Ephesians 3:16

By HIS SPIRIT in the inner man. Not His SPIRIT in the Spirit Man.

That' t where Calvinists go off the main track of Christianity. The ONLY Spirit man , if that's how you say it, ( the last MAN Adam is that life giving SPIRIT) is Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/2/13


"Only those He has chosen to be save will be save."
Mark_V.
OK Mark.... so if a baby is not one of your "chosen" ones it could die and go to Hell, is that right?
Tell us, what the criteria for being a chosen one is. What is the purpose of such?
What do we do with all these verses that say, come, repent, seek, ask, confess?
How does God show His love and power in your theory?
What do we do with II Cor 5:17? (If any man be in Christ He is a new creature.) According to your theory a Saved person is what he has always been and always will be that. This is not God's Salvation.
---Elder on 8/2/13


francis, that's not what Romans 7:22 is telling you with regards to what the "inner or inward man" is about. It's not about the "desire" but the question is WHICH PART of the man is Paul referring to? The "desire" is merely the consequence of the "inner or inward man". You haven't even a clue!

I'll help you, "...I pray God your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ". Deny all you want, but the "inward man" is his "spirit" that's born of God's Spirit that "desires" God's law. Hence, "spirit man", get it?
---christan on 8/2/13


Of coarse Markv, for only through Jesus Christ can anyone be Born Again. I don't understand why that is an issue with you. The Last Adam, that is , JESUS CHRIST , is that life giving Spirit. But nowhere is it taught in scripture JESUS goes around giving LIFE to people before they have put their faith in Him. THAT is why we FIRST need to be JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, so that Jesus can Indwell us. Jesus cannot form a union first with a sinner, UNTIL that sinner is JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD. THE BLOOD of CHRIST makes the New Birth possible. We need to be FORGIVEN FIRST.God FIRST has to JUSTIFY the UNGODLY, a legal transaction of being declared "not Guilty". Now remember, not guilty does not mead innocent.
---kathr4453 on 8/2/13




Kathr, again, read the Bible, walk into the light.
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins," Did you hear that? Read again. While you are dead in trespasses and sins, He made you alive. Not while you were righteous already. That is nonesense.
Here again "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved "us" (believers) even when we were dead in trespasses made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved, and raised "us" up together , and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.." (Eph. 2:4-6). The word of God is simple.
---Mark_V. on 8/2/13


MarkV no one is Made ALIVE through Jesus Christ until they are first Justified by Faith. To be made alive "with Christ" means you first were crucified with Christ and raised an New Creature. That did not happen to anyone before they first believed.

So, you do a lot of talking, and word games and double talk, but scripture clearly stated you were sealed with the Holy Spirit AFTER you believed.

Do you know what the word AFTER means MarkV???

No one is Born again first and then Sealed. Your Born Again experience is your sealing.

Now MANY here have gone over this with you thousands of times. Not just me....
---kathr4453 on 8/2/13


Kathr, you do a lot of talking mixing faith, sanctification, the blood of Christ, and many other things to make whatever point you are trying to make.
Faith is a gift of God. Salvation is a gift of God, Sanctification is the work of God, when a person is quickened, he is made alive by God. Everything is of God. A person is made alive by God while he is a sinner unsaved. Man has no saying in any of those actions. Because with men salvation is not possible, only with God is it possible. It is as simple as that. God does the saving. And has been doing it from the beginning. Only those He has chosen to be save will be save.
---Mark_V. on 8/2/13


Yes we are justified FIRST by faith, faith in the Finished works of Christ. We are FIRST justified by His Blood, THEN we are saved by His life, or quickened together with Him, or again another way of saying it BORN AGAIN. But Justification by faith comes before Salvation. Just as these verses say.

To be SAVED By Grace through justification through faith. So the Gift is not Justification, but SALVATION. GRACE is the gift.


Ephesians 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,)

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
---kathr4453 on 8/1/13


"Nana, you said I should "complain to God" because He did not provide an answer in scripture for you to be able to answer my question."
Haz27 on 8/1/13

That is another of your convolutions. Have I asked you or anybody to be perfect? No. Have I defined disqualifiers for inheriting the kingdom of God. No, God has in his word on both counts.
You could pretend all day long but in the end, the simple fact is that you oppose the word of God- not mine.
---Nana on 8/1/13


Below are errors taught by SDAs, confirming their unbelief in Jesus and their desire to be under the law for righteousness, instead. SDA's are in willful sin by being under the law.

ERROR 1:
"The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God". Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of 10-26-1897
ERROR 2:
"Every man's work passes in review before God...Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered, with terrible exactness, every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, .......all are chronicled by the recording angel." The Faith I Live By Page 210
---Haz27 on 8/1/13


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Th e"inner man" is that desire inside every christian to serve God perfectly

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the INWARD MAN:...I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

so that inner man is that deep desire to serve the law of God, and keep the law, it is at war against the flesh which desire to sin

God promises this: That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, Ephesians 3:16

Our ability to keep the law comes not from our flesh but from the divine nature: Christ in us
---francis on 7/31/13


Could it be that you have been deceived?
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13

NOPE
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

PSST PSSST come closer: I have already defined inner man several times. You and christan are not abel to comprehend that is why you failed to see it
---francis on 7/30/13


francis, another question you cannot answer. Could it be that you have been deceived? And that the Truth is not in you? (1 John 1:18). Could be the reason you answered the way you did, and have no clue what "the inner man" is.
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13


Like i said christan, start by acknowledging biblical use of the phrase "inner man " then we can talk.
---francis on 7/29/13


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francis, you continue to establish your foolishness with such statements using Scripture with no understanding. So what does the "inner man" imply to you? The body, soul or spirit? You speak of the part of your flesh that so desperately seeks to be justified by the works of the law. Isn't the carnal man the flesh? Didn't Jesus declare, "the flesh profiteth nothing"?

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." So, which part of the man is Paul talking about here? The body? The soul? Or the spirit of the man?

Tell us then, what's the "inner man"?
---christan on 7/28/13


francis, it seems you have no understanding nor faith about the "spirit (you call "inner") man"
---christan on 7/27/13
Start by acknowledging the BIBLICAL use of the phrase INNER MAN, and the total absence of the use SPIRIT MAN in the bible

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

than maybe we can talk

bye
---francis on 7/28/13


francis, it seems you have no understanding nor faith about the "spirit (you call "inner") man" whatsoever. By this I would assume you're trying to tell us it's the "spirit" you're talking about. Now here's why I say you have no understanding nor faith with regards to the "spirit man".

According to the Scriptures, the "spirit man" of a Christian is one who's "born of the Holy Spirit". How's one who's "born of the Holy Spirit" even commit sin? That's why it's written, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" and this pertains to the "spirit man", not the carnal man, which still sin till he dies in the flesh!
---christan on 7/27/13


Rom 6:1 Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
Note Rom 6:2.
"God forbid. HOW shall we that are DEAD to sin, live in it any longer?"

Rom 6:7 "He that is DEAD is freed from sin"

Rom 7:4 "ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW"

As we're DEAD to the law then we cannot be charged with sin, Rom 8:33

But Francis desires to be under the law to be perfected by the flesh.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law"

How do we establish the law?
Francis says it's deeds of the law that does this.

But Rom 3:28 says "a man is justified by faith, WITHOUT
the deeds of the law"
---Haz27 on 7/27/13


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You need Jesus Christ to keep the law perfect for you.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13
What then is our part:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in transgressing the law, that grace may abound. God forbid

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we transgress the law because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

Our part is this:
Revelation 14:12 the saints: keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 7/27/13


jan: Great post. I see by Rita's question that she is not comfortable with the modern prevailing concept of salvation - that a Christian is merely required to state a belief in Jesus, maybe get baptized, and from then on, they are "saved" and are free to sin all they want.

Salvation is an ongoing process that is not complete until we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air.



---jerry6593 on 7/27/13


francis, maybe you are destine to not understand the Word of God. you say,
"---Mark_V. on 7/26/13
Some how you seem not to believe what the bible says
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
WHAT LAW?"
Every sin is rebellion against God. Whether you are a believer or not, for all come short of the glory of God even believers. But you keep speaking of the law, and believers are not under the Law but under Grace. You will not except that, and that is your own fault. You are stuck under the law. Believers are not under the condemnation of the Law, Jesus Christ kept the written Law perfect for all believers because they could not. You need Jesus Christ to keep the law perfect for you.
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13


rita, saved people do sin in the body but when they do, God punishes us. our sins are covered by the blood of the Lamb. I have said this many times, when God sees me, He sees the Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. I will try to find in scripture where that is and since I am moving I can't find it now.
---shira4368 on 7/27/13


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I must ask this question, and insist on an answer:
How many people deep down inside ( the inner man) wishes to obey God perfectly?

God promises this: That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man, That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, Ephesians 3:16

Too many people in here Have a form of godliness, but deny the power of God to keep us from sin: from such turn away.

2 Peter 1:3-4 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto LIFE AND GODLY LIVING,
We are partakers of the divine nature,
---francis on 7/27/13


"They haven't yet learned how to stop the patterns of sin they indulged when they weren't saved." jan4378

Stop sinning in the flesh? This is unscriptural or else Paul's teaching in Romans 7 means nothing. A Christian will always struggle with the flesh and his born again spirit.


"Whatever is not known, there is no recognition of wrongdoing. God's word tells us what is wrong, and tells us how to stop doing wrong."

First and foremost, Scripture declares, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" whether known or not. The purpose of the law, "...for by the law is the knowledge of sin". There's no way to stop sinning in this flesh!
---christan on 7/26/13


we are under grace,
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13
Some how you seem not to believe what the bible says

1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.

WHAT LAW?

Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet

SO WE ARE NOW SAYING THAT SIN IS TRANGRESSING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sTRANGRESSING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we TRANGRESS THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

issues like this, that are dealth with clearly in the bible, are NEVER questioned by Christians. NEVER!!
---francis on 7/26/13


After a person is saved they are a babe in Christ. They haven't yet learned how to stop the patterns of sin they indulged when they weren't saved.

Whatever is not known, there is no recognition of wrongdoing. God's word tells us what is wrong, and tells us how to stop doing wrong.

It takes a desire for God's word to grow thereby and learn how to submit to God, and resist the inclinations to sin, thereby overcoming all evil with good.
---jan4378 on 7/26/13


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Rita, the simple answer is that if someone sins willfuly which all people do, and regularly with no rependence or shame then that person cannot possibly be saved. When the Spirit lives in us, we are constantly made aware of our mistakes by the Spirit. There is contrition in our hearts when we sin. We fill bad and shameful that we sinned against God all over again. that is the heart of the believer. The unbeliever feels no shame, regret, or a need to repent.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


The funny thing about having your own bible, is that although other people may have the exact same version, it just seems as if yours speaks to you. As if God speak to you through that Bible, and that Bible alone!

You can read other bible, but when you need to hear from god, you go back to that favourite bible, as if it and it alone is the word of God.

Other bibles, and other version seem like novels, but your favourite bible is the more sure word of God.
---francis on 7/26/13


francis, we are under grace, the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant given to Israel.
What I see you as, is like the Pharises who followed Jesus around, looking to condemn Him by quoting the law. Alway trying to find something wrong with Him. you do the same thing to all here, you try to condemn others for breaking the law. Jesus called them vipers.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


francis, what you need to read and belief is the New Testament. What is the use of having the Bible if you only belief half of it? The New Testament is where life is found. Not the type but the antitype. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself. I hope the real Jesus Christ finds you.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


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nikki, thanks for sharing that with me. I have had someone put a cup of coffee on my bible. I immediately got up and moved it. I keep coasters on my tables for putting coffee, tea, cokes and other drinks on. my bible is not a coaster. it will not be too much longer, our bibles will no longer be allowed. I can see it now. one missionary told us a village will get a bible and tear pages out so everyone can have part of the bible. we should realize how blessed we are. I have many bibles and I even have a copy of the 1611 king james written in original English. God bless and again, thanks.
---shira4368 on 7/26/13


I always capitalize deity and I never let anyone lay anything on my bible---shira4368

Continue respecting the Bible as you are doing. You'll never know how that actions leads others to God including your family.

I grow up in a Catholic Culture family. We didn't go to Mass every week. We would for a couple of years, then it would stop for several years until another round of weeks later on.
But, one thing I remember as a child was our Holy Bible on the coffee table in the living room. My mother didn't allow anything including dust touch the Bible. We couldn't even touch it. (We had our own children's Bible)

The holy awe of the Bible held strictly by my mother was one of the greatest influence on me.
---Nikki on 7/25/13


francis, glad you got a good king james bible. I had a favorite one and I gave it to my grand daughter. she put it in storage and no longer knows where it is. I have several good bibles but when mine wear out I store them away safely and go buy a new one. the one I love is my schofield. it was given to me by a good friend. I am happy you cherish your bible.
---shira4368 on 7/25/13


shira4368 on 7/25/13
I had one of my bibles restored, it cost me 95 dollars

It is my favourite bible.
it was worth it. It is an out of print Nelson open bible KJV

They fixed pages and gave me a new leather covering
---francis on 7/25/13


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---Mark_V. on 7/25/13
Do you really belive that

1: have no other gods before Jehovah.
2: Do not make any graven image, to worship
3: Do not take the name of the LORD God in vain,
4: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5: Honour my father and thy mother:
6: Do not kill.
7: Do not commit adultery.
8: Do not steal.
9: Do not bear false witness
10: Do not covet
are for tose who lived in the OT times?

---shira4368 on 7/25/13
So then you are like me, have lots of old bibles stored away, just can't bring yourself to get rid of them
---francis on 7/25/13


H. francis, you give the laws of the Old Testament, we are speaking of the New Testament. You are under the law. Under the New Covenant believers are not under the Law, they have been set free from the condemnation of the law. Your Old T. passages are for Old T. people under the law.

Haz, all I did was to show you that when people sin they sin willfully, no one makes them, so they are responsible for breaking the law even if they are believers. There is no condemnation to them, meaning they are not heading to hell, but they still have to answer for their sins at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
What you are saying is that sin is not sin anymore because you are a believers. Not true. Sin is still sin.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/13


francis, that is one of my sore spots. when someone abuses the Word of God. when someone burns the paper, they are not burning the Word of God. His Word will always stand. that is why we must learn and have His Word in our hearts.
---shira4368 on 7/25/13


Christan. You said "Your stance gives me the impression that one can go commit whatever sins and he will have no problem because he believes in Christ"

I have said in earlier debates, that nobody profits from doing wrong. God disciplines us.
But our failings are not how our righteousness is determined.

It remains as Rom 4:5 states, that our faith is counted for righteousness.
What I have always argued against is doctrines (such as what Francis preaches) that deeds of the law are required to prove if one is righteous.
---Haz27 on 7/25/13


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--shira4368 on 7/24/13
It is nice to see that you consider the bible sacred and that you honour it by not placing anything physically on it. It is not just a book, within it's pages are the word of eternal life
---francis on 7/25/13


Haz27, why do you take offence to my post? I was merely pointing out the difference in saying, "believing in Christ you are free from the law" to Galatians 3:13, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law". English language dictates there is a difference to both messages.

Your stance gives me the impression that one can go commit whatever sins and he will have no problem because he believes in Christ. That's the tone of your message. Whereas Paul's message in Galatians 3 has a sobering reminder that there was a heavy price borne by Christ in removing the curse of the law from the sinner that he may have eternal life which I do not get from your post.
---christan on 7/24/13


francis, God can keep anyone from falling but you also must know He will allow us to fall unless we stay in prayer and stay close to Him. one other thing, I always capitalize deity and I never let anyone lay anything on my bible. my son in law's dad pointed to the bible and he ask me if I thought it was Holy. he was trying to trick me since his beliefs are nothing like mine. I told him the words were Holy but probably the paper is not. he didn't ask me anything else. he takes every opportunity to make fun of my faith. since none of his 3 sons are saved, he really should focus on them and not where I worship.
---shira4368 on 7/24/13


God has the power to keep the Christian from falling

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
---francis on 7/24/13


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Everyone that sins, sins willfully.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/13
Not biblical

Leviticus 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Leviticus 4:13 And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done [somewhat against] any of the commandments of the LORD [concerning things] which should not be done, and are guilty,
---francis on 7/24/13


MarkV. Are you under the law?
If so then whatever the law says it says to you, Rom 3:19.

Bringing yourself under the law is to make yourself a transgressor/sinner, as you will fail to obey it perfectly. Bringing youself under the law is a wilfull choice to be in sin. Being under the law is unbelief in Jesus (sin, John 16:9).

Or are you free from the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9)?
If so then you cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law. Who shall lay ANYTHING to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33.

When you believe in Jesus your faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5. You cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law hence no death penalty either.
---Haz27 on 7/24/13


//SO where does a person stand if, after being saved, he/she sins willfully and regularly with NO repentance or shame?//
I believe 1 Cor chapter 11 explains it.
---michael_e on 7/24/13


Haz, now it is me. Here you said,
"To sin willfully means you choose to remain under the law for righteousness by works. That's how one makes themselves a sinner, Gal 2:18."
First, the passage does not speak of willfulling sinning in Gal. 2:18) and here is why.
Everyone that sins, sins willfully. No one is forced to sin. unless someone puts a gun to your head and say, "rape this women, if you don't I will kill you." Now that is sinning not willfully. Believers are not in bondage to sin so don't want to sin because they love the Lord, but yield to sin willfully. No one makes them.
Unbelievers sin because it is their desire always to sin, their will is in bondage to sin.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/13


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Christan, you said: "the law cannot condemn you anymore. That's because Christ fulfilled the law on the believer's behalf."

I see you agree with my points in my previous post but then try to differentiate your position by falsely implying that I say lets live a selfish lifestyle.

I suggest presenting facts truthfully.
---Haz27 on 7/24/13


RitaH, there are some here who preach the doctrine of antinomianism (trampling on the grace of God).

Such is what they'll say "believing in Christ you are free from the law" when Scripture actually says "free from the curse of the law", meaning the law cannot condemn you anymore. That's because Christ fulfilled the law on the believer's behalf. That's salvation by grace.

Does it then mean we do not try to obey the law? A Christian will try but he will always fall. The Christians will always try to obey the law because he's been saved and loves God. Hard as he try, this body of sin is in the way until God takes him home.

In short, that's what Romans 7 teaches us.
---christan on 7/24/13


Rita H. Read Mark 10:11,12 to see that regardless if it's a man or woman who divorce and marry another, it's called adultery.

Note also Mark 10:12 how women of the day also divorced their husbands, which contradicts the claim that wives were property of husbands.

Rom 7:2,3 is speaking about being delivered from the law. It's a spiritual message.

To sin willfully means you choose to remain under the law for righteousness by works. That's how one makes themselves a sinner, Gal 2:18.

But those believing in Jesus are free from the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18), their faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5), and they cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law (Rom 8:33, 1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9).
---Haz27 on 7/23/13


Christan, thank you. I have read Romans 7 and wonder how others here see verses 2 and 3 if the roles were reversed. These verses are worded only regarding blame if the wife does wrong. My question asked about "he/she". I truly hope that no-one here believes that only women can commit adultery and that men are never to blame if they 'play away'. This was written as a time when women were the property of men. Some believe that times have changed that whilst others don't.
---Rita_H on 7/23/13


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Don't be fooled, the spirit of the Pharisee is alive and well,
---christan on 7/22/13
yes and so is the spirit of God.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
---francis on 7/23/13


"When you ask me do i commit sin, you are asking me whether or not i have pledged or vowed to break the Law of God. The anser is no. I have not commit my life to disobey God." francis

Pledge? Is that even biblical?

Whereas this is biblical: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and His word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

According to Scripture above, you're in deception, the truth is not in you, you called God a liar and worse of all, "His Word is not in you".
---christan on 7/23/13


H. francis, here is the passage again concerning you and what you teach,

"But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he is guilty of all"

You show partiality by accusing others of breaking the written laws you follow. So you are a sinner and a transgressor of that written law. And there is no mercy for you,
"For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13).
---Mark_V. on 7/23/13


H. francis, you now say,
"To commit sin is to pledge to break the law of God without repentance."

To commit sin is to rebel against God. You don't make a pledge to sin, you just do it. All human beings sin. For all come short of the glory of God.
---Mark_V. on 7/23/13


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Christan, Jed have you pledged
or commited yourself to transgressing the law of God?

To commit sin is to pledge to break the law of God without repentance.

The bible draws a difference between"sin through ignorance" and "sin through presumption."

When you ask me do i commit sin, you are asking me whether or not i have pledged or vowed to break the Law of God. The anser is no. I have not commit my life to disobey God.
---francis on 7/22/13


---TheSeg on 7/22/13
garbage
---francis on 7/22/13


"So Francis, you are saying that you never commit sin?" Jed

O, he refuses to acknowledge that question which was put forth to him on numerous occasions only to continue pouring out the laws of God upon his fellow man. This man is pure, cannot sin no more and yet a day will come when he has to leave this body of sin. Question, is his soul justified by faith when that happens. Only God knows.

While he's alive now, we're witnessing a modern day Pharisee, who mind you claim they believe in God but Christ was always calling them, "hypocrites, brood of vipers". Why? Don't be fooled, the spirit of the Pharisee is alive and well, and we're witness to such a spirit here in black and white.
---christan on 7/22/13


Do you obligate or pledge yourself to sin?
---francis on 7/22/13

Better still, let's use God's definitions. They're FAR better.

1John 3:4. "Whoever commits sin transgresses the law: for sin is transgression of the law"

And according to Francis the answer is "No, No, No" for salvation to anyone who sins/transgresses the law.

Francis sins willfully as he brings himself under the law for righteousness thus making himself a sinner (Gal 2:18).

For whatever the law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19. So just as the Pharisees condemned others for transgression of the law, Francis does likewise.

Such show by their works (of the law for righteousness) that they deny God, Tit 1:16.
---Haz27 on 7/22/13


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Some people will try to twist scripture in an attempt to justify not keeping the law
francis

Yes true, but not to justify not keeping the law, but to justify themselves.
Luk_18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Peace
---TheSeg on 7/22/13


So Francis, you are saying that you never commit sin?
---Jed on 7/22/13
Commit: to obligate or pledge oneself

1 John 3:8 He that obligates or pledges himself to sin is of the devil, for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not obligate or pledge himself to sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he obligate or pledge himself to sin, because he is born of God.

Is that better?

Do you obligate or pledge yourself to sin?
---francis on 7/22/13


God does not contradic himself

God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Numbers 23:19

Some people will try to twist scripture in an attemt to justify not keeping the law

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
---francis on 7/22/13


Rita, a good question, you asked,
"SO where does a person stand if, after being saved, he/she sins wilfully and regularly with NO repentance or shame?"
In my opinion on what I have read from Scripture, no one is without sin. But I do not believe that a person who sins willfully with no repentance is a child of God. The reason is that when we as believers sin, we are convicted of those sins, and as believers we want to please God, so when we fail, we ask for forgiveness and correct our mistakes. Sometimes not right away, but God will chasten us and deal with us to get us back on the right track. He knows all of weaknesses so knows how much to chasten each one one who sins.
---Mark_V. on 7/22/13


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So Francis, you are saying that you never commit sin?
---Jed on 7/22/13


Ah yes!
Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment,

If ye fulfil the royal law (according to the scripture), (Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself), ye do well:
On these two commandments (hang all the law and the prophets.)
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, (Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.)
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, (Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.)
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, (that we should love one another.)

that soul shall utterly be cut off, his iniquity shall be upon him.

Having ears and eyes, they're dead inside.
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/22/13


Numbers 15:27 And if any soul SIN THROUGH IGNORANCE, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him, and IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM




Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought PRESUMPTIOUSLY, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD, and that soul SHALL BE CUT OFF among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off, his iniquity shall be upon him.
---francis on 7/21/13


Ah yes! The knowledge of the truth!
Many question just what that is.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Peace


Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Ah yes! The truth!
Who's righteousness can (or will) believe it?
Psa_3:2 Selah!
Peace
---TheSeg on 7/22/13


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You seriously need to go read Romans 7!
---christan on 7/22/13


SO where does a person stand if, after being saved, he/she sins wilfully and regularly with NO repentance or shame?
---Rita_H on 7/21/13
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
---francis on 7/21/13


we know that we are saved through jesus christ. jesus christ said that many will come in my name, and he will not recognize them as his own.

therefore, that tells me, i know who saves. i know i will come in his name. he may or may not recognize me.

as cluny says, "This may not be the answer you want, but it's the only answer I can give."
---aka on 7/21/13


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