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False Anti-Christ Coming

I believe, as some others teach, that there will be a false Anti-Christ to come before the real Anti-Christ arrives.

Satan's purpose for devising this would be so that many will believe that the real A.C. is "Jesus Christ" come back again.

Anyone else sense this, as well?

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 ---Gordon on 7/21/13
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I believe that the Antichrist is already here. He looks like an angel....The word Antichrist may mean either an enemy of Christ or one who usurps [to take possession by use, in possession by force, or without right [a throne] Christ's name and rights. The word is found only in 1 John 2:18, 22, 4:3, 2 John 7, but the idea conveyed by the word appears throughout Scripture. The OT gives evidence of a general Jewish belief in a hostile person or power against God's people. [even now there are many Antichrists 1 John 2:18].
---catherine on 8/1/13


\\Justin Martyr was a pagan apologist - as you are.\\

St. Justin Martyr, as his sobriquet shows, gave his life for our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

So consider the source.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/1/13


Is your answer Rome to all of the above?
---barb on 8/1/13
No
But this beast is Rome

see what Pater ( who ministered in Rome) says:
1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you,

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
---francis on 8/1/13


barb, With the World worshipping the Anti-Christ (Beast #1) by the leading the the False Prophet (Beast #2), the Dragon (Satan) will then, by all that, be ultimately worshipped.

The whole NWO/Anti-Christ system will be Satanism. Pure and simple. That's what Revelation 13:4 involves.

The Anti-Christ Sunday-worship services will include sexual orgies and the satanic communion of the blood and roasted flesh of the martyred Saints, as well as the distribution of the Bestial Mark.

This is what Satanism now encompasses. Animal and human sacrfice. The drinking of the human blood of these sacrifices. And of immoral sexual activity involving the sacrificial victims and the participating Satanists.
---Gordon on 8/1/13


Francis, you are not alone in your belief. Most of the christian world believes that the beast will come from Rome. So, if Satan expects to pull this off, he must be very stupid and not the crafty, sneaky, deceitful weaver of lies that we have been warned about.

Where was Jesus crucified? Where are the two witnesses killed? Where is Mount Zion upon which the Lamb stands with the 144,000? Where does the gathering for the battle of Armageddon take place? What is the name of God's city coming down from Heaven? Where is the Holy Place where the abomination stands? Who denies Jesus Christ as their Messiah? Is your answer Rome to all of the above?
---barb on 8/1/13




barb, In REVELATION 13, there are 2 Beasts and 1 Dragon.

Beast #1 is from the "the sea". REVELATION 13:1-10.

This is the NWO Beast which produces the Anti-Christ.

Next is the Dragon, of REVELATION 13:4, which is Satan himself, is worshipped by the World for being the one who gave Beast #1 power and authority.

Then, lastly, there is Beast #2, of REVELATION 13:11-17. He is the False Prophet who leads all into worshipping Beast #1, the Anti-Christ and his "image".
---Gordon on 8/1/13


Cluny: "The evidence from early Christian writers, such as Justin Martyr"

Justin Martyr was a pagan apologist - as you are.




---jerry6593 on 8/1/13


\\This is the Rome.\\

Is it?

\\ It is from Rome that we get the attempt to change God's laws, that is where protestants get Sunday as a holy day from\\

Really? The evidence from early Christian writers, such as Justin Martyr, is that Christians were meeting in the wee hours to celebrate the Eucharist in the late first-early second century hundreds of years before Constantine, or even before the Bishop of Rome was ever called "Pope."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/31/13


Daniel 7:23-25 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, ... the ten horns are ten kings : ... he shall think to change times and laws:

This is the same ten horn seven head beast in revelation 13 and 17. This is the Rome. It is from Rome that we get the attempt to change God's laws, that is where protestants get Sunday as a holy day from

Rev 13:11 a beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This is USA. a nation like a lamb peaceful, and yet like a dragon warlike.
Two horns no crown, ( Church and State)

In due time the USA will cause people to turn to Rome by law, and force every one to keep Sunday as a holy day
---francis on 7/31/13


Gordon, where you use the word "antichrist", I use the word "false prophet". We are close to agreement here but not quite.

The false prophet brings the image (2nd beast, Satan, Rev. 13:15) to life and the the 2nd beast (Satan) speaks and causes all to worship the 1st beast (OWO, Rev. 13:12) and all to take the mark of the OWO given by the false prophet, hence no buying or selling unless you have the mark of the OWO.

Satan is brought to life by the false prophet, says he is the messiah and gives orders and causes all to worship the 1st beast (OWO). Rev. 13:12. Isaiah 14:11-16, Ezekiel 28: 13-19.
---barb on 7/31/13




--Cluny on 7/30/13

I have offered several legitimate blogs to discus Een White in detail, and no one would take it

so when you throw stone, I am uninterested

Now if you wish to we can start a blog on any of her books
---francis on 7/31/13


francis, do you deny that EGW actually wrote this? Her family says she did:

\\But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of GOD, and caused confusion everywhere. GOD purposed to destroy by a flood that powerful, long-lived race that had corrupted their ways before him.Spiritual Gifts, vol. 3, p. 64.

Chapter 7 is entitled The Flood, and contains this statement:

Every species of animal which GOD had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which GOD did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. ....Page 75.\\

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/13


\\Cluny: Each of your lies about EGW have been disproven previously. \\

No, they have not been, because they are direct quotes from her own writings.

Here's another one:

"Whenever I give you a testimony of reproof or correction, you dismiss it as merely the opinion of Sister Whhite. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God."

She also claimed that God taught people more "earnestly" (her word) in her own writings than in the pages of the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/30/13


Cluny: Each of your lies about EGW have been disproven previously. Unlike you, she was a true Orthodox - believing and teaching the same religion as the Apostles. You teach Evolution, false worship day, spiritualism, and violation of God's Commandments contrary to Christ's word in Mat 5. She, on the other hand, was one of those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.) - rev 12:17, 19:10. And what do you have to offer other than pride, condescension and hatred toward your fellow Christians?



---jerry6593 on 7/30/13


When the 1st beast (OWO) goes into the fire
---barb on 7/29/13
Stop there!!!
when this happens it is actually the end.

The next thing to happen after the lake of fire is that the saints of God live on the earth with God.

there is no NWO after the beast is cast into the fire

the lake of fire ends sin and unrighteousness for ever
there is no seven heads, remember that bneast already has five head fallen
---francis on 7/30/13


barb, The first Beast, yes, is the Antichrist kingdom and system, existing from past ages, through which Satan has raised up many antichrists. It's that New World Order system which the Devil himself, through secret-societies, Satanism, and the Church of Satan, has been constructing throughout the centuries.

And it's this Beast-NWO-system (as a whole) that the final Anti-Christ will rule over in the End-Times.

It's that final Anti-Christ, the "false Jesus", which is the main character in this Chapter 13.

He's the "Little Horn" of DANIEL 7:8.

REVELATION 13 is the final fulfillment of DANIEL 7.

For, 666 is the number of "a man".
---Gordon on 7/30/13


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Cluny, Perhaps there was a demonically-oriented breed of animal that existed.

Just as the Nephilim existed, which were a breed-mix of fallen angels and humans.

I'm only guessing. Something to consider....
---Gordon on 7/30/13


Another false teaching by EGW is that "inferior races were the result of amalgamantion [sic] of man and beast"--a common racist attitude of the time.

She also claimed that no species God did not create was allowed into Noah's ark. Did she actually think there were species God did NOT create back then? (Let's leave modern genetic engineering out of this discussion, please.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/29/13


Francis, not sure what you are talking about. I said that the 1st beast (OWO) was thrown into the fire WITH the false prophet.

In Rev. 20:1-3 Satan is locked into the bottomless pit for a thousand years. The righteous dead are resurrected and with those still alive deemed righteous and reign for 1000 years with Christ (Rev. 20:4, Rev. 15:2). After the thousand years the dead (2nd resurrection) are judged. In Rev. 20:10, also after the 1000 years, Satan is cast into the lake of fire where "THE BEAST AND THE FALSE PROPHET ARE". They are already there. So what do you mean when you say stop right there...?
---barb on 7/29/13


When the 1st beast (OWO) goes into the fire
---barb on 7/29/13
Stop there!!!

This beast does not go into the fire until after the judgment, after the second coming, during the time when God raigns down fire from heaven

and the false prophet goes in with him

Notice that the beast is kept ALIVE until such time

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were CAST ALIVE into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.


THAT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE YOU CHANGE YOU THEORY
---francis on 7/29/13


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I know that the republicanism part is hard for you to accept as a democrat indoctrinee, but she was the prophet - not you.
---jerry6593 on 7/29/13
republicanism refers to the form of the USA govenment, not the politila party

but you are funny
---francis on 7/29/13


\\I know that the republicanism part is hard for you to accept as a democrat indoctrinee, but she was the prophet - not you.\\

EGW (whose name adds up to 666) was not a prophet, but a medium controlled by a demon whom she channelled.

Her false prophecies, such as saying that Britain would attack the USA during the civil war are a matter of public record.

She claimed that there would be people at an Adventist conference who would be alive to be caught up with Jesus when He returned. Assuming that there were babies born at that very minute there, they would now be well over 150. Any SDA that old?

She peeped and muttered because she had no light.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/29/13


Gordon, the 1st beast is made up of 7 heads, 10 horns and 10 crowns. This is not a person but a religious/political system which makes it possible for the false prophet to take control of the world. This system agrees as one and speaks with one mouth.

When the 1st beast (OWO) goes into the fire with the false prophet, he still has seven heads. The remaining people (members of the OWO) who have believed the lies of the 1st beast and received his mark, are slain by the sword and become bird food, Rev 19:21.
---barb on 7/29/13


jerry, We have the same amount of evidence that francis is a prophet as we do that Ellen White was one.
So why do you say such things?
---Elder on 7/29/13


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"Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation." - Great Controversy, 1888, p. 441.

---jerry6593 on 7/29/13
same thing
---francis on 7/29/13


barb, In the context, Beasts 1 and 2 are always spoken of as PERSONS, not governing entities.

Revelation 16:13, "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon (Satan), and out of THE MOUTH OF the Beast, and out of the mouth of the False Prophet."

All of the "mouths" are of persons.

And, Revelation 19:20 speaks of the 1st Beast as a person. It's not speaking of a NWO system, or a collection of governing countries.

Revelation 20:10 shows the Devil (Dragon) being cast into the Lake of Fire, into the same place where the (1st) Beast and the False Prophet ARE, to be tormented day and night Forever. All three are individual PERSONS to be tormented.
---Gordon on 7/29/13


Francis: "The two horns are the two great powers of the USA ( no crowns) They are the CHURCH and teh [sic] STATE"

Not according to Ellen White. She said:

"Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation." - Great Controversy, 1888, p. 441.

I know that the republicanism part is hard for you to accept as a democrat indoctrinee, but she was the prophet - not you.


---jerry6593 on 7/29/13


---barb on 7/28/13
please notice WHEN this 4th beast was slain and HOW it was slain

Daniel 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Slain AFTER the judgment, and slain IN BURING FLAMES

same thing in revelation 20. Rome is not dead by any means, According to what I posted Rome made a transformation from Pagan nation to false christian nation RCC
---francis on 7/28/13


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Francis, we see in Dan 7:11 that the fourth beast is slain, it's body destroyed and thrown into the fire. Then in Rev 13, the fourth beast is gone, only three beasts remaining.

The Roman Empire is gone and the pope is just an old man that folks like to go out and have a look at but at the end of the day nobody wants to take him home.

The beast coming UP OUT of the earth is the same beast that was cast OUT INTO the earth. Rev 12:9, Rev 13:11. That beast was not the USA.
---barb on 7/28/13


And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth,

John saw it arise from the earth. If the sea, from which the leopard beast arose (Revelation 13:1) denotes peoples, nations, and multitudes (Revelation 17:15), the earth would suggest, by contrast, a new and previously unoccupied territory. By exclusion from Eastern continents, and by looking to territory not previously known to civilization, we turn of necessity to the Western Hemisphere. New nations generally rise by overthrowing other nations, and taking their place. But no other nation was overturned in order to make room for the United States,

The two horns are the two great powers of the USA ( no crowns) They are the CHURCH and teh STATE
---francis on 7/27/13


Daniel 7:24 the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise:
the Alemani (Germany), the Franks (France), Burgundians (Switzerland), the Suevi (Portugal), the Anglo-Saxons (Britain), the Visigoths (Spain), the Lombards (Italy),

and another shall rise after them, and he shall be diverse from the first( VATICAN), and he shall subdue three kings.
the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Heruli.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo- Persia, Greece, Rome pagan, Rome Papal

five are fallen,
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece

and one is,
Pagan Rome

and the other is not yet come,
Vatican (papal Rome)

and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
---francis on 7/27/13


The name Antichrist is mentioned only in two small books. ( 1 John and 2 John).
1 John 2:18, The early Christians had heard that antichrist was coming.
1 John 2:18: Even now there are many antichrist.
1 John 2:18: This is evidence that the last time has come.
1 John 2:19: These many antichrist "went out from us."
1 John 2:22: Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is antichrist.
1 John 2:26: These antichrist are trying to seduce us away.
1 John 4:3: There is a spirit of antichrist.
1 John 4:3: The spirit of the antichrist denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
1 John 4:3: The spirit of the antichrist is already in the world.
1 John 4:4: 1 John 4:6: 2 John 7: 2 John 2:9:
---Mark_V. on 7/27/13


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Gordon, so we have 3 in the lake of fire, the beast, the false prophet and the devil. I agree, three in the fire.

We don't find the word "antichrist" anywhere in the book of Daniel or Revelation. The only place we find that word is in the epistle of John and in a different context.

My understanding is that the 1st beast is the ten horned creature who is the one world order. The false prophet is thrown into the lake along WITH the beast because he is the master mind behind the OWO and has allowed himself to be controlled by Satan. That gives me, one beast who is the 1st beast (OWO), one false prophet and the devil (2nd beast) in the fire.

I guess we will just have to disagree as to who those two beasts are.
---barb on 7/26/13


barb, There are two Beasts, plus Satan the Dragon.

Beast #1 is the Beast from the sea, Revelation 13:1-8.
Then, Beast #2 is later introduced in Revelation 13:11.

Verse 11 says, "And I beheld ANOTHER Beast coming up out of the earth..."

Again, the 1st Beast, the Anti-Christ, comes from the sea.
The 2nd Beast, the False Prophet, comes from the earth.
And, the third creature mentioned is the Dragon (Satan) who gives the Beasts power, Verse 4.

Revelation 19:20 and 20:10 say that "And the Beast was taken, and WITH HIM the False Prophet...", that's TWO persons.

and "...the Devil...cast into the Lake of Fire...where the Beast AND the False Prophet ARE...", two persons again.
---Gordon on 7/26/13


David, you now say because you do not understand,
"From his human birth on earth to his death on the torture stake, Jesus was flesh- Jo.1:14, Phl.2:7. After his death, scripture states Christ was 'put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit' (1Pe.3:18, ASV)."

It does not say that at all,
What it does say is:
"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh " But made alive by the Spirit"
He was made alive by the Spirit. His flesh that died. (1 Peter 3:18). Don't twist the passages.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


David: "Jesus returned to the spirit life he enjoyed before coming to earth."

You imply that Jesus lost his body and became a non-corporeal entity (a spook) after His resurrection. You must have missed this:

Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.



---jerry6593 on 7/26/13


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David, you also say,
"Christan obviously has no idea what 'Christ' means. Christan believes Christ 'is eternal'." He is eternal, for He is the Word of God. Then say,
" This is antichrist propaganda." you are speaking antichrist propaganda. Then say,
"Any honest Bible student will know 'Christ' (Messiah) means 'anointed one'."
Jesus in His humanity was annointed by the Father. Then say,
"Who anointed the eternal one?" Jesus the human Person was not eternal, He was born of Mary. Christ is eternal. Christ, the Word of God came in the flesh as Jesus. His name is Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 7/26/13


Gordon, I believe that the false prophet is the leader of the one world order (1st beast). He is the mastermind behind it. He is totally controlled by Satan and will bring an image of Satan to life. Rev. 13:14-15.

Satan comes out of the pit at the 5th trumpet (Rev. 9:1-11) and we see more evidence of this in Rev. 17:8. "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and shall ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, AND GO INTO PERDITION. This can only be Satan.
---barb on 7/25/13


**\\'find me a trinitarian that deny 'Christ came in the flesh'!'- christan.\\

Then you're an antichrist, according to the Letters of St. John**

christan, I misread and misunderstood what you said.

I apologize. Please forgive me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/13


David, Yahushua (JESUS CHRIST) is a Spirit, the Son of GOD, Who took on Flesh and Blood as a Man. To shed His Blood for the remission of the sins of "whosoever will".

That's the biggest Miracle. That God the Son, 100% Divine, humbled Himself and took on Flesh and Blood as any other regular Joe-human being
---Gordon on 7/25/13


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\\'find me a trinitarian that deny 'Christ came in the flesh'!'- christan.\\

Then you're an antichrist, according to the Letters of St. John.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/13


'find me a trinitarian that deny 'Christ came in the flesh'!'- christan.

Ok: 'Christ is Spirit... Jesus Christ is God'- (christan 7/22/13). By christan's own admission, he is not Christian because he believes 'Christ is Spirit'.

Christan obviously has no idea what 'Christ' means. Christan believes Christ 'is eternal'. This is antichrist propaganda. Any honest Bible student will know 'Christ' (Messiah) means 'anointed one'. Who anointed the eternal one? How can an 'anointed one' be anointed if he already was eternally anointed?

This is where christan is a contradiction in himself. Christ is not eternal by definition. If 'Christ is eternal', it negates the very idea of 'anointing' and salvation through Christ's death.
---David8318 on 7/25/13


Bible students will discern when Jesus became the 'anointed one' (or Messiah)- Matt.3:16, Lu.4:18, Ac.10:38. Evidently trinitarians believe the 'anointed one' is eternal.

From his human birth on earth to his death on the torture stake, Jesus was flesh- Jo.1:14, Phl.2:7. After his death, scripture states Christ was 'put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit' (1Pe.3:18, ASV).

Why resurrect 'in the spirit' if Christ was already spirit? The point obviously Christ was not 'spirit'. Christ was flesh. Any denying this fact is antichrist- 1Jo.4:2,3.

Jesus returned to the spirit life he enjoyed before coming to earth. Jesus prayed just before his death to return to the glory he had before the World was- John 17:5.
---David8318 on 7/25/13


\\The Only trinity found in the Bible, ( the devil - false prophet & the antichrist. )
---Lawrence on 7/25/13\\

Except for the various mentions of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, of course.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/25/13


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Barb, REVELATION 13:11 says "And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

That second Beast is not Satan, it is the False Prophet.

Satan is THE Dragon, while this 2nd Beast 'speaks AS a dragon'.

Satan the Dragon is mentioned in Verse 4,
"And they worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the (1st) Beast..."

But, this second Beast is AS a dragon.
The second Beast will, as the first, be extremely vile and wicked as Satan is.

That 2nd Beast is the "False Prophet", who points all to the 1st Beast, the Anti-Christ.

The False Prophet is also referred to in REVELATION 16:13, 19:20 and 20:10.
---Gordon on 7/25/13


Not a false antichrist, the true antichrist.

The Only trinity found in the Bible, ( the devil - false prophet & the antichrist. )
---Lawrence on 7/25/13


The 1st beast of Rev 13 coming up out of the sea is the one world order. Ten horns (Kingdoms), ruled by ten crowns (kings) The 2nd beast in verse 11 is Satan who causes the 1st beast to be worshipped. See Rev. 9:1-11 for more detail. Also Rev. 16:10-11. ---barb on 7/24/13

Barb
Hmmm...interesting, Thank you for your answer.
---David on 7/25/13


David: "No, trinitarians deny Christ came in the flesh."

That is a lie! Antichrists lie. Thus, you are antichrist.

Jesus often spoke to His Father in heaven. He also promised to send His representative - the Holy Spirit - when He left. You know, the same one that descended like a dove upon Him at His baptism. Were these just His imaginary friends, or is there actually a Trinity of the Godhead? Pagan? I don't think so!



---jerry6593 on 7/25/13


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David, you say,
"Trinitarians teach- 'Christ is Spirit.. Jesus Christ is God'- Trinitarans teach that Christ is Spirit and that Jesus Christ is God. Then say,
"If Christ was Spirit and God, then he could not have been flesh." Christ who is the Word of God became flesh. The Bible tells us so. Then say,
'And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist'. 1John 4:3." We do confess that Christ is come in the flesh. When He was born in the flesh He was called Jesus.
Jesus rose from the dead in the flesh. He is seated at the right hand of God the Father. Yet His Spirit is within all genuine believers.
---Mark_V. on 7/25/13


David,

As often pointed out to you but because JWs are less than honest in their dealings they prefer to avoid the following dilemmas:

1. JWs have 2 - count them! - 2 creators: the Father and a finite creature called Jesus or Michael, depending on if he's an angel or a god e.g. see John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16.

2. JWs believe in salvation through works, but even then they don't believe they are saved, which is why they feel they must door knock, refuse blood transfusions and organ replacement etc.

Now, who's the pagan?
---Marc on 7/25/13


David8318:

You said: No, trinitarians deny Christ came in the flesh.

Then you refuted christan's words.

One person's blog postings don't define what everyone else believes. Please name a mainstream trinitarian Christian group that BELIEVES AND TEACHES that Jesus did NOT come in the flesh. Such groups typically affirm what he Bible says plainly (regardless of different things they read between the lines). I don't know ANY that claim Jesus was NOT a human infant, was NOT born of Mary, etc. Do you? I'd love to hear it. Please cite sources.

Also, the Bible simultaneously teaches that Jesus died, and ALSO that he rose again and lives again forever. So you can't claim that believing one precludes believing the other.
---StrongAxe on 7/24/13


David8318, find me a trinitarian that deny "Christ came in the flesh"! If one denies this, he's most definitely not a Christian, I assure you.

You contradict yourself by saying "Christ came in the flesh". Here's prove you're an antichrist. Scripture explicitly declares, "And the Word was made flesh" John 1:14.

So I ask you, before Christ became flesh, what form was He? Christ has to be existing in some "sphere" isn't it for Him to come in the flesh? So, what was He then? An alien?

I say God and wholeheartedly agree with John 1:1. Meaning Christ was the eternal Spirit before He became flesh, just like the Father.
---christan on 7/24/13


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--David8318 on 7/24/13
This is so that i can better understand you

You said that all things came into existence " through Him" meaning Jesus

How does all things coming into existence through Jesus, differ from Jesus creating all things?
---francis on 7/24/13


david, I believe in the trinity and I know Jesus was God in the flesh. where do you get your information. what do you call Trinitarians? bible teaches the trinity and God in the flesh.
---shira4368 on 7/24/13


Francis, neither Isaiah 45:5-7 or John 1:1-3 describe Jesus as God or creator. John never describes Jesus as 'creator'. Yes, 'all things came into existence through him', but that is because as John stated at verse 14, Jesus is the 'only-begotten son' in that Jesus is the only one directly created by Jehovah God. All other things 'came into existence THROUGH him (Jesus)'.

Jesus is not God. John does not identify 'the Word' as the God he is with. This is because 'theos' in relation to the Word appears without the definite article- 'theos en ho logos', or 'god was the Word'. In this instance, 'theos' without the definite article describes 'the Word' as 'a god' or 'divine' (Goodspeed)- it does not identify 'the Word' as the God he is with.
---David8318 on 7/24/13


'Do trinitarians "confess that Jesus is come in the flesh"?'- strongaxe.

No, trinitarians deny Christ came in the flesh.

Trinitarians teach- 'Christ is Spirit... Jesus Christ is God'- (christan 7/22/13). If Christ was Spirit and God, then he could not have been flesh.

'And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist'. 1John 4:3.

By his own confession, christan teaches what is antichrist. Even more so because this trinitarian antichrist propaganda denies the death of Christ- 'He's eternal' says christan. There is no salvation in christan's belief. Without Christ's death there is no hope- Matt.20:28, John 6:48-51, Heb.2:9.
---David8318 on 7/24/13


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David, anyone who teaches or speaks against the words of Jesus Christ is an antichrist. There have always been antichrists in the world and there will be many more to come.

The 1st beast of Rev 13 coming up out of the sea is the one world order. Ten horns (Kingdoms), ruled by ten crowns (kings) The 2nd beast in verse 11 is Satan who causes the 1st beast to be worshipped. See Rev. 9:1-11 for more detail. Also Rev. 16:10-11. The 5th trumpet and the 5th plague are all about the rise and fall of Satan. When the 7th trumpet sounds it is all over and the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God. Rev. 11:15.
---barb on 7/24/13


David, Your statements that "
"Christan is a mouthpiece for the antichrist- Denying the power of salvation through Christ's flesh and denying the death of Jesus Christ- Matt.20:28, John 6:48-51, Heb.2:9."
is false. He never denied Jesus Christ who is God came in the flesh. What he said is true, you deny the God of the Bible. The antichrist spirit is already here, and has been since the apostolic church beginned. The word antichrist is only mentioned in two books, 1 John and 2 John. They come right out of the Church we are told "The spirit of antichrist denies Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" (1 John 4:3). You deny Jesus Christ who is God came in the flesh.
---Mark_V. on 7/24/13


David8318, you quote 1 John 4:3 without even understanding the context of the verse. Here's why I accuse you as so,

1. Can you even prove that i deny Christ came in the flesh? That's not the issue in what I'm even saying.

2. The issue is prior to Christ coming in the flesh, ask yourself this question: who was He? Did He even existed? Was He nothing before He became flesh? What and who was He?

The answer then is plainly found in John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." And if you cannot get past the truth He was God, all you understanding of the Scripture is nothing but crap! And that's because, "His word is not in you".
---christan on 7/24/13


Could someone who doesn't believe there will be an Anti-Christ, pretending to be the Christ, tell me who you think the beast is in (Revelation 13)?
---David on 7/24/13


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strongax, I know God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. what is that if its not a trinity? bible teaches all 3. God saved me thru Christ by the Holy Spirit. how can conviction come without Holy Spirit.
---shira4368 on 7/23/13


what about the Supreme God, many little gods dogma? is that not polytheism? is not polytheism pagan?
---aka on 7/22/13

To worship these "sons of GOD" would be.
To recognize a Noah, Moses, David, Jeremiah etc as such would be wisdom.
Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Rom_8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not
---Trav on 7/23/13


Let's see now... a false anti-christ, ugh a false anti-christ....hummmm wouldn't that be a pro-christ!
There are many anti-christ entered into this world and work even now. This is just something else devised to take peoples mind off of what the Word of God says and teaches.
Really now, why not just stay with the Word of God and forget all of the spectlation?
---Elder on 7/23/13


David8318:

You said: The pagan trinity dogma is a mouthpiece for the antichrist.

You constantly rant about trinitarianism on these blogs, but let's see what the Bible ACTUALLY says about what the word "antichrist" means:

1 John 2:22
Do trinitarians deny "that Jesus is the Christ"? No. Not antichrist.

1 John 4:3 and 2 John 1:7
Do trinitarians "confess that Jesus is come in the flesh"? Yes. Not antichrist.

Since trinitarians do NONE OF THE THINGS that the Bible actually says are marks of antichrist, how can you possibly equate the two? I'd be glad to see any scriptures you have that are on point.
---StrongAxe on 7/23/13


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Isaiah 45:5 -7 NWT: I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. With the exception of me there is no God...I am Jehovah, and there is no one else. FORMING LIGHT AND CREATING DARKNESS, making peace and creating calamity, I, Jehovah, am doing all these things.

John 1:1-3 NWT: In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God,... All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

How do you reconcile that Jehovah is the creator, but Jesus is not the creator, or Jesus is not God
---francis on 7/23/13


'Christ is Spirit... Jesus Christ is God'- christan

'And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist'. 1John 4:3.

Christan continues with antichrist "Christ is Spirit" rhetoric. The pagan trinity dogma blinds him to the reality that 'Christ is come in the flesh'.

'He's eternal' says christan. So, according to christan, Christ never died. But without a death there is no forgiveness of sins- Heb.9:22. There is no salvation in christan's teaching!

Christan is a mouthpiece for the antichrist- Denying the power of salvation through Christ's flesh and denying the death of Jesus Christ- Matt.20:28, John 6:48-51, Heb.2:9.
---David8318 on 7/23/13


The pagan trinity dogma is a mouthpiece for the antichrist.
---David8318 on 7/22/13

what about the Supreme God, many little gods dogma? is that not polytheism? is not polytheism pagan?
---aka on 7/22/13


"The pagan trinity dogma is a mouthpiece for the antichrist." David8318

The trinity is pagan? What a wonderful confession of one who thinks he's a Christian.

As for the word "antichrist", have you even considered why someone is labeled an "antichrist"? To you an acknowledgement that Jesus Christ is God is an "antichrist"? Even after we are explicitly told by the Bible, "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58.

Gee, I wonder what Christ was declaring to the Jews? Isn't denying Christ as God then an "antichrist"? Aren't you an "antichrist". Without a doubt!
---christan on 7/22/13


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"Christan believes Jesus and God "are one"" David8318

My Lord Jesus declared, "I and My Father are one." John 10:30, so the problem of unbelief that Christ is God basically lies in your heart not mine.

You forget or I should say, you cannot believe that prior to the "Word becoming flesh", He is God as John 1:1 declared. That is simply put, Christ is Spirit, He's eternal, and the reason He came in the flesh was to fulfill His eternal promise of "saving His people from their sins".

O what a foolish heart you have with regards to who Christ is, but then again, I believe in predestination that unbelievers like believers are "ordained".
---christan on 7/22/13


\\Thus, christan and trinitarianism promote the real antichrist.\\

**The pagan trinity dogma is a mouthpiece for the antichrist.
---David8318 on 7/22/13**

Consider the source.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/22/13


"John 1:1 is an explicit reminder of the divinity of Jesus Christ, period"- christan (7/21/13).

"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist"- 1John 4:3, as quoted by christan (7/22/13).

The antichrist nature of christan's dogma is clear. Christan believes Jesus Christ was divine... "period". As John said, 'this is that spirit of antichrist'.

The pagan trinity dogma is a mouthpiece for the antichrist.
---David8318 on 7/22/13


Christan cites 1John 4:3 and incredibly believes Jesus is God! When in the flesh, Jesus said, 'God is a spirit'- John 4:24. Christan believes Jesus and God "are one", and thus believes Jesus did not come 'in the flesh', but was 'God', or 'God incarnate'- God clothed with flesh as many trinitarians teach.

Jehovah's Witnesses however believe Jesus gave up his divine status and came to earth in the flesh. He was not God 'incarnate' or God 'clothed in flesh' because as Jesus stated- 'God is a spirit'.

Christ was flesh, but God is & has always been 'a spirit'. Trinitarians however believe Jesus never gave up his divine status and was 'God'.

Thus, christan and trinitarianism promote the real antichrist.
---David8318 on 7/22/13


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1 John 4:3 says "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist", which means to say, the Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah Witness, etc are antichrist, isn't it?
........
---christan on 7/22/13

Wow. Easy to do but, Ultra Rare to see someone stand up and tell the truth. Especially the politically correct more especially still.... preachers.
Truth is truth and anyone not willing to go the whole distance is not found at the end. Sounds like you've made a commitment.
Mat_7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
---Trav on 7/22/13


"I believe, as some others teach, that there will be a false Anti-Christ to come before the real Anti-Christ arrives."

You got this from reading the Scriptures? "Antichrist/s" is only mentioned about four times in the epistle of John and none speaks of "a particular one person" as you propagate.

1 John 4:3 says "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist", which means to say, the Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah Witness, etc are antichrist, isn't it?

Basically, not believing that Christ is God labels him/her as "antichrist", period.
---christan on 7/22/13


If you believe this, Gordon, it's a good sign this is NOT so.

OTOH, this does not stop there being precursors of Antichrist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 7/21/13


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