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Repentance Conversion One Time

Here's something that should make an interesting discussion.

Are repentance and conversion one time events, or are they continuous processes throughout our lives?

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 ---Cluny on 8/3/13
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//---LindaH on 8/18/13//
I think we maybe in agreement.

//Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."//

These are the wicked which is why (He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day)

--It does not say "until His death on the cross when he went and (preached) to the fallen angels..."

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and (preached) unto the (spirits in prison,")

Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient[...]

spirit (true nature)
wages of sin--paid.
---char on 8/19/13


RichardC,

Ezekiel 36:19 "And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them."

John 5:28_29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Why not "all men"?
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

God makes not the exception, man does in what he chooses.
---Nana on 8/19/13


Rita, you now said,
"People born prior to Jesus 'coming in the form of man' would have been saved according to a very different criteria from those who have heard the gospel."
There is only one criteria, by Grace through faith in Christ works."
There is only one way into heaven, through Christ. No back doors. One Way. This is the work of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13


Nana- on - 8/17/13 - All men believing - Believing / Believe / Belief / This comes from God , this is a action God is taking in a person life.

Philippines 1:29 - For unto you is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but to suffer for his sake. ( KJV )

Philippines 1:29 - God has generously granted you the privilege not only believing in Christ but also of suffering for Christ sake, - ( CEB )

John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God , that ye believe on him, whom he has sent. (KJV )

2 Thessalonians 2:13

( If God so desire All to believe: God could, If God wanted to save the Whole human race, he could - Ezekiel 36:24 -25 - 26 -27 )
---RICHARDC on 8/18/13


"Come on Samuel, are you suggesting that God wants to save all people but sinful people won't let Him?"-- MarkV

YES!

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


"He should not be called God."

This is why you are blind. Constant blasphemy against God at the mere thought of him being anything different than what you currently believe. The day you humble yourself to admit that you MIGHT just be wrong is the day the truth will begin to manifest itself to you.
---LindaH on 8/18/13




Mark V - "Also, if He came to save all or wanted to save all human beings, then why did He come too late, millions had already died in their sins. So we know He didn't come to save all, but a select few."

Read Romans 1:20. Many would have seen God through nature prior to the birth of Jesus. God will not condemn people for not believing in someone not yet born in their lifetime. HE, obviously, judges us according to different criteria

People born prior to Jesus 'coming in the form of man' would have been saved according to a very different criteria from those who have heard the gospel.
---Rita_H on 8/19/13


Linda, so what you are saying by giving (1 Peter 3:18,19) is that Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison, He went to hell and saved those who were dead already? So they didn't miss Jesus after all? Sorry but that is not what the passage is saying. Jesus did go to the spirits bound in prison and proclaim that in spite of His death, He had triumphed over them (Col. 3:14,15) The spirits in prison are those fallen angels in prison mentioned in Jude who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He had reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day, (Jude 6). The other demons are still lose. There is no salvation for those who are dead in trespasses and sins. No more chances after death.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13


JOHN cALVIN PREDESTINATION:
Predestination, by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death

For they are not all created with a similar destiny, but eternal life is fore-ordained for some, and eternal damnation for others
Every man, therefore, being created for one or the other of these ends, we say, he is predestinated either to life or to death.

BIBLE KJV
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
---francis on 8/18/13


if He came to save all or wanted to save all human beings,....
---Mark_V. on 8/17/13
GARBAGE

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
---francis on 8/18/13


"Also, if He came to save all or wanted to save all human beings, then why did He come too late, millions had already died in their sins."-- MarkV

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:18,19)
---LindaH on 8/18/13




John 11:47_48 "Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

We see people today who cringe at the very thought of "all men" believing in Jesus as the chief priests and Pharisees back then.
They must fear loosing that special place they think they have above "all men".
---Nana on 8/17/13


Samuel, you also said that limited atonement also goes to far. I don't know why you say that, or who you heard. But Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost. Really save them. We know for a fact that many are not been saved and die in their trespasses and sins. We know that Jesus words are clear, seek and save those who are lost, so the many who are lost are not a part of those He saves, otherwise they too would be saved.
Also, if He came to save all or wanted to save all human beings, then why did He come too late, millions had already died in their sins. So we know He didn't come to save all, but a select few.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/13


Samuel, first, I do not speak for Calvin, I know very little about him. I learned from my studies in the Bible. you say,
"My Problem with Predestination is that it goes against scripture which states that GOD wants to save all people." Come on Samuel, are you suggesting that God wants to save all people but sinful people won't let Him? He should not be called God. That god does not exist in Scripture. 2 Peter 3:9 is a passage every free willer gives, but it is speaking about the elect, God does not want any to perish so He is long suffering waiting for all of them to complete the redeemed. The "us" the "all" the elect. Check who Peter was talking to, the "us" the brethren.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13


Mark Cluny what did you think of my Quote from the 12th.

The person who is considered the Father of Current Predestination is Calvin. My son is reading a book on the teachings of Calvin Vs. C. S. Lewis. He is a little disappointed with the book. But he has told me that many things attributed to Calvin seem to come from latter students who above and beyond his proposals.

My Problem with Predestination is that it goes against scripture which states that GOD wants to save all people. 2 Peter 3:9 and John 3 where it says all people shall be drawn to JESUS. Many who teach free will to go to far. But limited atonement goes too far also.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/13


Thank you brother Richard, I do the same even though I confront some, I do it so that others who have never listen or studied the Sovereignty of God will look for themselves. Free will has really taken off. A lie will always sound better to those who are lost. Many a pulpit teach free will. It make people feel good about themselves. Sounds awesome that it's up to them and not God. They just hate for God to make that decision. They are use to been separated from God anyway. They will give every excuse and when they cannot answer God's Word, they do throw you the devil. Thank you brother for all of your answers. Only the Truth saves. Peace brother.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13


Mark - No surprise man wanting control of his destiny , I just put down a verse here or there, or the Verses others are talking about for any body passing though, for the most part, just so people can look up for themselves, or try to correct when someone is just talking with not looking in to what there saying, The personal attacks: I think some of that is there no way to fight off what being said, I have been called a calvinist lately,
God total Sovereign right is just not popular !
---RICHARDC on 8/15/13


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Brother Richard, you gave some great passages. (Phil. 1:6) is just another of many passages that speak about how God begun a good work in all those who He saves, and continues to work in us and will complete that work until the Day of Jesus Christ. He begans the salvation and He finishes it. All the Work of God.
But many here do not believe the very works of God, they rather believe in the works of sinful man, and they will swear to it, to the point of throwing you satan.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/13


On 8/12/13 - not be disqualified ? -

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing,that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ,

John 6:39 - And this is the the father will which hath sent me, That all which he hath given me, I should lose Nothing, But should raise it up again on the last day,

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth Not:but he is begotten of God keepeth himself, and the wick one does not touch him ,
---RICHARDC on 8/13/13


Cluny, Mark E is correct, Paul knew when he began the race. How could he forget? And you mentioned that Paul would be disqualified. I believe you think he would lose his salvation but that is not what he is saying. First the race he is talking about is a metaphor from athelic games. A constestant who failed to meet basic training requirements could not participate at all, much less have an opportunity to win. Paul was referring to such fleshly sins that disqualify a man from preaching and leading the church, particularly being blameless and above reproach. His mission was of winning souls by preaching the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/13


\\St. Paul never said, "I know when I began the race," but "I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. I know whom I have believed."
---Cluny on 8/12/13

I must disagree with this statement. \\

Go ahead and disagree. Can you prove where in one of his epistles St. Paul said, "I know when I began the race."

My point, which you seem to be missing, is simply knowing when you began is in and of itself meaningless.

Even while St Paul was actually running (persevering) he asked others to pray for him that he not be disqualified.

Beginning well is good, but the point of the race (his metaphor) is to FINISH well.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/12/13


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Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.

The GOSPEL is the preaching of the CROSS...Christ Crucified and risen.

Hopefully you won't come back Markv like you have many times with your scoffing stupid remark and calling the cross a piece of wood. It only again shows your ignorance of truth.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


No MarkV liars and blasphemers will certainly not enter the Kingdom f God. YOU blaspheme and lied when you said GOS was a murderer from the beginning.

Once you said that, and even defended what you said, I know you are not a child of God nor are you Born of God.

MarkV read God's WORD....the Preaching of the CROSS is the power of God "unto" Salvation.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


MarkV, God did not breath DIRT into man. You think the epidermas of man is his heart and soul and conscience? Are you NUTS. We were created after the image of God. God is not DIRT. and we know that is not referring to God physical image.

MarkV, can you discuss without always using the word LIE LIAR etc. It makes you look so juvenile and immature. We all know that you are, but we are all hoping you can start acting more MATURE here as one who professes to be THE ELECT.

Your doctrine is garbage Markv, with no scripture to back it up, except verses you twist out of context again making yourself look awfully stupid.

THEN you brag that you are the "GOOD CLAY"..Dirt that is....toooooooooo funny!
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


The sinner is represented as a lost sheep, and a lost sheep never returns to the fold unless he is sought after and brought back to the fold by the shepherd. No man of himself can repent, and make himself worthy of the blessing of justification. The Lord Jesus is constantly seeking to impress the sinners mind and attract him to behold Himself, the Lamb of God. We cannot take a step toward spiritual life save as Jesus draws and strengthens the soul, and leads us to experience that repentance which needeth not to be repented of. When the soul lays hold upon Christ as the only hope of salvation, then genuine faith is manifested. Selected Messages 1:389-392.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/12/13


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I know many Eastern Christians who have a deep faith, but simply cannot articulate it as glibly as a typical American evangelical...
---Cluny on 8/12/13

Funny, but I feel the same way. I did not articulate my comment to fit your Biblical theology and you whacked me for it.

But, I need to surrender that and live out the Jesus in me so I don't miss the three finger pointing back at me when I point my finger at you.

I agree with you as long as we are dicussing WHOM we have believed in and not simply faith. Faith only matter when it is in Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/12/13


Kathr, just more lies, again and again, now you say,
"Markv denies all those scriptures, because he has denied CHRIST, denied the CROSS, and HIDES that fact BEHIND his obsession of no free will to throw you off his trail to hell."
Don't you ever get tired of lying? I am not obseessed with free will, you are. I was made alive together with Christ, by God's mercy and grace not but my own free will. I am happy that spiritually I have access to God.
Liars do not enter the kingdom of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


St. Paul never said, "I know when I began the race," but "I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. I know whom I have believed."
---Cluny on 8/12/13

I must disagree with this statement.

Paul's conversion story is told no less than three places in Scripture, Acts 9, Acts 22, Acts 26, and is referred to by Paul himself in Galatians, Ephesians, and 1 Corithians.

The day remained a significant event in Paul's life.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/12/13


Kathr, we were made from dirt and to dirt we will return. The flesh profits nothing. It will die. In the eye of God we are but dirt. God told us,
'And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life" Jesus also said salvation with man is impossible (Matt. 19:26). Jesus also said, "For as the Father raise the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will" (John 5:21) Not who has free will. Jesus also said,
"This is the Word of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (John 6:29).It is not the free will of man, but the work of God that we believe in Him.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


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Aside from "accepting God's sacrifice for themselves" not being a Biblical concept, what does it matter?

If a person believes in Jesus, he believes in Jesus.

I know many Eastern Christians who have a deep faith, but simply cannot articulate it as glibly as a typical American evangelical or can answer their questions to their interviewers' satisfaction.

Knowing the right buzzwords or being able to give date, time, and place is no indication of spiritual health.

St. Paul never said, "I know when I began the race," but "I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. I know whom I have believed."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/12/13


And is what you believe about the spiritual experience of other people necessarily so?
---Cluny on 8/9/13

Of course not. It is not something we are making a doctrine or denomination over.

However, I live in the South Eastern US and many people here "grow up" in church. Many go to church because it is what they have done for generations.

As a result, they cannot point to an experience where they repented and accepted God's sacrifice for themselves.

Many I know, say they have always believed in Jesus and never remember a time when they did not believe.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/12/13


God saves WHOSOEVER will

kathr4453 and francis are WHOSOEVER

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst,

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
---francis on 8/11/13


I know Francis, I'm starting to wonder more and more about MarkV's denial of the Truth, and twisting of facts God has made clear.

YES Francis we are partakers by faith of HIS DIVINE NATURE. "Christ in you"has told you that, for only Christ in you can reveal that truth to you. No longer I but CHRIST IN ME,...
CHRIST IN ME, the Hope of Glory.

Markv denies all those scriptures, because he has denied CHRIST, denied the CROSS, and HIDES that fact BEHIND his obsession of no free will to throw you off his trail to hell.

He doesn't see his life IN CHRIST, or Christ who is our life....
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


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Because "Dirt" cannot choose God?

Is that what your reasoning is Markv?

Now you say man is no different than dirt? So you say Jesus became Dirt?

Markv, your argument here is so laughable. What extremes you won't stoop to to make your false claim.

Now you want to make man "a mineral? ". why not an animal? Why a mineral?

Oh, but man is neither animal or mineral. So your argument and reasoning is STUPID beyond words.

Markv, are you in a mental facility somewhere playing on the web?
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


Kathr, sometimes I don't know where you come out with your nonsense. You say concerning Jacob and Esau:
"But exactly what does that have to do with YOU, a Gentile, who we all are told in Ephesians were separated from God, covenants, promises. NOW you have been brought NEAR by the Blood of Christ, but are you sure you've been "Brought IN"?"
What it has to do is that God does the choosing. And does what He so desires. To whom He desires. That He is God and you are but dirt. That He chose whatever jew He want to save and now, whatever Gentle He wants to save. That it is not man who makes the choice, but God. Dirt cannot choose God. Why don't you get it? because you are a jew as you say?
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


Kathr, in answer to Richard you say,
"Because God PROMISED in Genesis 3:15 that He would save."
That is correct, God saves those He desires to save. I did not see anywhere in your statement that it was because man had to use their free will to be saved. It was all of God. He promised and He does what He says He will do. Christ did not come here to see if there were any who would seek Him. Of course not, Romans 3:11 emphatically declares "there is none that seeketh after God" Christ is the seeker. If you read the parable of the lost sheep you would know, if you are a sheep.
"Thou shall call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins" not try, but actually save them.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


--kathr4453 on 8/11/13
You are too funny
when have the ever understood anything" be is question or answer?

they disagree with everything

christians have the divine nature 2 Peter 1:4 that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
---francis on 9/13/12
We do not have a divine nature. We only have one nature, sinful human nature,
---Mark_V. on 9/14/12
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE
---francis on 9/14/12
francis, we are partakers of the divine, we are not divine. God only is divine. You are presenting heresy.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12
---francis on 8/11/13


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Francis, I don't think they actually UNDERSTAND the question. And it would take the ability to REASON to give an answer.

What if...here's another...what if Rebecca only had one child and not twins? And what if that child were Jacob, who would have carried on those promises given to Abraham.

Ans: The outcome would have been exactly the same. Jacob would have been renamed ISRAEL, he still would have 12 sons, and the Messiah would still have come through the line of Judah.

Jesus would be born of a virgin, to be the LAMB OF GOD who takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD?...all the way to 2013 and beyond....ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Whosoever will ..to those who RECEIVE HIM....
---kathr4453 on 8/11/13


RICHARD, to answer your question....

Because God PROMISED in Genesis 3:15 that He would save. And God cannot lie, or break His Promises. Oh sure, He could have wiped out all humanity , even Noah too, but BECAUSE GOD CANNOT LIE or break His Promises, He, through Noah, then through Abraham, then through Israel, who was first names Jacob, all the way down through Mary, brought in that PROMISED SEED just as He said He would do.

THAT'S WHY RICHARD.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/13


Francis on - 8/10/13 - Esau - Jacob -

When you get right down to it, why save Jacob either ? In Fact Why any of the Human race - For all have Sin !
---RICHARDC on 8/10/13


The older shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.
---christan on 8/9/13
What did God do to cause Esau to give us his birthright?

That is where you and mark fall short. way way short.

GOD HAVING FOREKNOWLEDGE IS NOT THE SAME AS GOD DOING THINGS TO CAUSE PEOPLE TO FAIL AND FALL

ONLY THING GOD DOES IS CAUSE MAN TO REPENT AND KEEP THEM FROM EVIL

God knew what Esau would do, God did nothing to make Esau behaving the way he did

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
---francis on 8/10/13


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We all know Christan, God chose Jacob over Esau for SERVICE, and through that Israel became God's chosen EARTHLY NATION.

But exactly what does that have to do with YOU, a Gentile, who we all are told in Ephesians were separated from God, covenants, promises. NOW you have been brought NEAR by the Blood of Christ, but are you sure you've been "Brought IN"? .

Please get over yourself Christan. Run along and play with your own kind , as you just suggested to MarkV that he do, and leave us. That's so much more Christlike than calling names....wouldn't you say Christan? Or do you think it's CUTE going around all puffed up in pride and arrogance, looking down on everyone?
---kathr4453 on 8/10/13


The Lord determines when a person is born again!
Lu1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Only one born again of God leaps for joy at the approach of the Saviour.
King David: Ps22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
David was born again as an infant, Paul on he road to Damascus, and the thief upon the cross.
Some may not remember, but that doesn't change their relationship with the Father.
---trey on 8/10/13


"for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, NOT OF WORKS BUT OF HIM WHO CALLS, it was said to her, The older shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. SO THEN IT IS NOT OF HIM WHO WILLS, NOR OF HIM WHO RUNS, BUT OF GOD WHO SHOWS MERCY."


Romans 9:11-16
---christan on 8/9/13


\\I just grew up in Church" which to me indicates that a conversion event (being born again) has never occurred.

I also believe we should know when we were born again. \\

And is what you believe about the spiritual experience of other people necessarily so?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/13


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Mark_Eaton, I agree. For me, it was so significant I remember the time, and date. Maybe that is not true for everyone, and I'm not saying you have to remember the time and date, but you really should remember that moment because the New Birth is most memorable. Unfortunately many do believe they are saved because they grew up in a Christian home and talk the talk. BUT you really can't walk the walk unless Christ is IN YOU. Now there are imitators, but we don't imitate Christ, as some think. There is the fruit of the Spirit, or Walmart fruit some just scotch tape all over themselves. When you go to take a bite...you can taste the plastic.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/13


Being raised in a Christian home in no way ensures you are Born Again.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/13

This was the point of my question.

Many people I know when asked "when did you get born again" say something like "I don't really know, I just grew up in Church" which to me indicates that a conversion event (being born again) has never occurred.

I also believe we should know when we were born again. It should be a significant event in our lives.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/9/13


"But God isn't finished with any of us yet."
Cluny on 8/9/13

I agree wholly.

Paul says,

1 Thesalonnians 5:5_6 "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober."

Jesus says,

Matthew 5:15_16 "Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick, and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

We are gladly never finished either, Phillipians 3:12_21.
---Nana on 8/9/13


"Conversion",Strongs #1995 is used ONCE in scripture in reference to Gentiles turning from Idol worship to the True God. Being raised in a Christian home one would not need conversion. Nor does the word indicate through scripture that Jews, even lost needed to be converted. However ALL need to repent. So Repentance towards God is not the same as conversion.

Being raised in a Christian home in no way ensures you are Born Again. That take TRANSFORMATION. TRANSFORMATION in becoming a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST happens instantaneously when we are raised up together with Him, first being crucified with Him. Repentance or conversion cannot bring that about, however FAITH in His death and resurrection life that He died for YOUR SIN does.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/13


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\\Seems to be authored by a lady named Elizabeth Esther.
---Nana on 8/7/13
\\

It was.

I will also admit that she is still working through major issues. But God isn't finished with any of us yet.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/9/13


Mark E. you asked,
"I would like to discuss the idea of being raised from infacy in the faith in another blog. Is such a thing possible or is a conversion event necessary?"
Many are raised in the faith, meaning they know the gospel Truth. When the Bible speaks of falling from the faith it means abandoning the Gospel. This people, when they grow up, never make a true commitment to Christ. So later fall away. This are called apostates. Only those who abide in Christ are saved.
I believe that repentance and faith are gifts of God by the Spirit. Unbelievers do not have repentance and do not have faith.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/13


"I would like to discuss the idea of being raised from infacy in the faith in another blog. Is such a thing possible or is a conversion event necessary?"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/8/13

Isaiah 1:2 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me."

They were 'raised in the faith'.

Raising and bringing up, Jesus does with his teachings. John 6:45 come to mind as well as Romans 10:13_15.

Acts 6:7 "And the word of God increased, and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly, and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith."

The 'faith' is a living way, Matthew 7:24.
---Nana on 8/8/13


Especially for those of us raised from infancy in the faith
---Cluny on 8/7/13

I would like to discuss the idea of being raised from infacy in the faith in another blog. Is such a thing possible or is a conversion event necessary?

I happen to agree with the idea that repentance and conversion are continuous processes.

Phil 2:12 "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/8/13


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Cluny,

Thanks for opening this blog and for sharing the quote. Seems to be authored by a lady named Elizabeth Esther.
---Nana on 8/7/13


I found this quote, which I thought might interest the posters.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

+++++++++++

But I think we do the Gospel an injustice by over-emphasizing a Moment of Conversion [elsewhere called Big Bang Conversion] over The Way of Conversion. Especially for those of us raised from infancy in the faith, our relationship with God may look more like a Journey of Conversion-more akin to the growing brightness of a dawning day.
---Cluny on 8/7/13


the apostles did not accept Jesus as the messaih, the saviour from sin until after the resurrection. Safe to say they were not yet converted

the idea of the messiah was one who would create on earth a kingdom
---francis on 8/7/13


"But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou are converted, strenthen thy brethren"

The word "convert" is "Epistrepho" in biblical it means to turn, turn to or towards in (Matt. 9:22: Mark 5:30: 8:33: Acts 16:18) To return (Matt. 10:13: 12:44: Luke 2:20. To convert, turn to God and holiness (Luke 1:16,17: James 8:19,20:). To turn and be converted or turned (Matt. 13:15: Luke 22:32: Acts 3:19: 9:35: 14:15: 26:18,20).
To turn away from, a turning oneself around, Conversion, occurs only in Acts 15:3)
Peter was saved already for He had faith, but would fail Christ but he would be turned.
Repentance and faith are fruits of the Spirit when a person is born of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/13


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nana good stuff, good read

This part is where i wish to focus:
In the New Testament conversion seems to summarize the call of the church in RESPONSE TO jESUS' commission to preach repentance for the forgiveness of sins to all the nations,

I do not think that this happened to Peter until after the resurrection
---francis on 8/6/13


francis,

Google this: Convert, Conversion Baker's
Make sure the web hit lands on a 'biblestudytools' site (probably the first in Google and about the third in Yahoo)
It is a good exposition which I am sure you'll enjoy reading it.

Nana

PS.

I just found this after reading your comment. Prior to this, what I said was all me saying (Nana).
---Nana on 8/5/13


---Nana on 8/5/13
I ( francis) do not think that any of them were as yet converted, nor understood the mission of Christ or yet who he truely was, till he came back after his death and taught them again.
---francis on 8/5/13


//Does that mean then that Peter had not an identity with Jesus// in Luke Ch. 22
---nana

No but sometimes Peter (and us) forget that identity during a crisis. This is the essence of all sin that we rely on our own strength for our identity. As satan tempted Adam and Eve, eat the fruit and you will be like God. However, the chapter 1 God says "let us create man in our image" Thanks for the question to allow clarity.
---Scott1 on 8/5/13


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"conversion claims your new identity in Christ (once)"
---Scott1 on 8/5/13

Does that mean then that Peter had not an identity with Jesus yet when he was told, "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."? (Luke 22:32)
---Nana on 8/5/13


conversion claims your new identity in Christ (once)

Repentance (continuous) is growing in that identity. Take Matthew the tax collector, a lover of money. Jesus did not say stop being a tax collector he said follow me and then he stop being a lover of money as evidence by his new love for Christ in his gospel.
---Scott1 on 8/5/13


James 5:19_20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Repentance is not spelled out there but it is implied. However, conversion is discussed in what pertains to erring and course correction ("error of his way") of brethren and amogst brethren,"Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth...".
---Nana on 8/5/13


once you have been converted, if you backslide, the bible does not ask that you be reconverted. It asks that you repent

Now in most churches you cannot backslide ( however your denomination defines that) and return to the fold as if nothing ever happened

you would have to go through a few classes again and those classed must include: doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:2

So we are urged not to return or backslide but rather leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hebrews 6:1
---francis on 8/4/13


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Repentance and conversion are addressed widely in throughout the Gospels.
"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
"Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

James 5:19_20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him, Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."
These things are most likely lifelong events considering the flesh, Ezekiel 3:20, 18:26, Mark 14:38,Matthew 18,Matthew 24:12.
Love one another...
---Nana on 8/4/13


Repentance/conversion are ONE time events.
Heb 6:1-6
"NOT LAYING AGAIN the foundation of REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS (the law)....
...IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, IF THEY FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 12:14-17
looking carefully lest anyone FALL SHORT OF THE GRACE OF GOD,...lest there be any fornicator...like Esau,...sold his birthright...and afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found NO PLACE FOR REPENTANCE
---Haz27 on 8/3/13


Cluny,

According to the First Century Teachers (and those that followed after them), both repentance and conversion are continuous processes, from the time of our Baptism (Yes, I'm Orthodox, so all the Mysteries of the Church apply) until such time as we go to meet the Lord. This is called metanoia, the continuous turning away from sin and turning to God. Orthodox also call it theosis.

As one monk I know says, we fall down and get up, fall down and get up, and finally we fall down and get up on the other side of the pearly gates.
---Monk_Brendan on 8/3/13


Conversion is a one time event, we continue to repent as we grow, and s our hearts ache when we break the relationship between God and us

When we are converted, we are changed from sinner to saint

as we grow and know God, we at time realize that our action, and our word are contrary to the will of God, and with a broken heart we repent

But we through faith continue to grow to be in the image of God. Not that we are converted over and over again, but that as God works in our lives to bring us to perfection, we become more like him
---francis on 8/3/13


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True conversion, where God comes to the individual is a one time event. Repentance, because we still sin throughout our time in this life, must be a continuous event. So often when I ask God for forgiveness of my sins, I am not sure exactly what sin I am asking Him forgiveness for. God explained to me, because I RAN THIS BY HIM, that it is "merely an acknowledgment"!
---catherine on 8/3/13


\\First and foremost, being "born of the Spirit of God" is a ONE TIME event\\

But that's not the question I asked. Please read my original post, which is talking about repentance and conversion.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/3/13


Hi, Cluny (c: I think when our Father draws someone to Jesus and He is committed to keeping the person for eternity . . . He succeeds. "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) Once joined to Jesus in His almighty power . . . there is no getting out of this.

So, this is repentance, when one is turned from Satan's power (Acts 26:18), to being almightily super-glued in the Holy Spirit. This is a major spiritual change . . . repentance.

But then a child needs to grow and be corrected (Hebrews 12:4-12). There is always more healing and growing and correction into how we become in our Father's love (Romans 5:5).
---willie_c: on 8/3/13


Cluny repentance is a "one time process". "To open [our] eyes, [in order] to turn [us] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan to God, that [we] may receive forgiveness of sins, and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in [Jesus].' Act 26:18
Conversion is a "continuous processes throughout our lives." A continuous process of mind renewal. As it is written, "do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Rom 12:2
---Josef on 8/3/13


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Nether Repentance or Conversion has any meaning what so ever. The one and only thing that counts is did God chose you to be a member of his Elect and be in the family of God and a co-sibling with Christ.
---Blogger9211 on 8/3/13


First and foremost, being "born of the Spirit of God" is a ONE TIME event.

Repentance is the consequence of one that's "born of the Spirit" after God has given the sinner "faith, which is a gift from God" For without His gift of "faith", the sinner's repentance will never please God at all.

As the Christian continues to walk this earth with the Spirit of God in him, he will continue to sin because he's in the flesh (body of sin) and he will continue to repent to God knowing and believing that God will indeed forgive him of his sins. Repentance is on-going till he dies in the flesh.
---christan on 8/3/13


Repentance for salvation is a one time event. But as you grow in the Gospel of Jesus Christ you will repent of a lot of thinks. Many times.
---Bryan on 8/3/13


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