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Explain The New Testament

Read what Yeshua says in Matthew 5:17-18.So why should I, a Jew, renounce Torah? There are 495 Old Testament verses in the New Testament quoted 695 times. The New Testament isn't new, it's just true. Shalom aleikhem!

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 ---Jerry1957 on 8/3/13
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You want me to believe God made something perfect and it failed!
---TheSeg on 8/12/13
No do not believe me, but can you believe THE BIBLE?


Ezekiel 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth, and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God, thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


GOD said he was perfect until SIN
And you disbelief is because of what?
---francis on 8/12/13


the seg, i cannot expect you to understand that,
francis on 8/12/13

Yes, I know!
You want me to believe God made something perfect and it failed!
When no place in the word of God, did God actually say I made this perfect!

Were as in Gen_1:31, you actually have God saying!
"And God saw (everything) that he had made,"
[This would be all of creation everything, heaven and earth, all that is!]
"and, behold, it was (very good.) And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

But you don't have to take God word for it, do you!
You go on your merry little way. As always believe anything you want.
It make no differences, Christ has all the bases cover!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/12/13


TheSeg on 8/11/13

What would it have taken for Adam to be perfect?

We know that Lucifer was perfect, until he sinned. What about Adam?

what would it have taken for Adam to be perfect?

Let me tell you why Adam was perfect:
1: He had No sin and until he sinned he was perfect
2: He was not defective in any way, no disease.
3: He was mentally sound, has free will to make up his own mind
4: he was in the very Image of God who is perfect.

Now tell me what prevented Adam from being perfect
---francis on 8/12/13


But, you say he was perfect!
---TheSeg on 8/11/13
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.


Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

It is only because of sin that lucifer did not remain perfect

very same thing for Adam, Adam was in the very image of God without sin, and thus perfect

the seg, i cannot expect you to understand that,
---francis on 8/12/13


Hebrews 8:7 says the first and second covenant are to Israel. The first covenant describes the Law given to Israel The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Deut 5:2
The second covenant, the new covenant also given to Israel (Heb 8:13, 12:24,).
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel

Jere 31:31, Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Knowing the covenants were given to Israel and Judah Paul said concerning his brethren according to the flesh, Israel,
to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises, Rom 9:4
---michael_e on 8/12/13




Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Hebrews 10:16 I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

The very same laws of the "OT" are carried forward into the NT with two additions which were given BEFORE the NT was in effect 1: the lord's supper, 2: Washing of feet.

And before the New Covenant was in effect, Jesus removed the earthly sanctuary services

Luke 23:45 the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Galatians 3:15 if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
---francis on 8/11/13


It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, (but by every word) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Words!
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was (very good.) And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

For we know that (the whole creation) groaneth and travaileth in pain together until (now!)

But, you say he was perfect!
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer (from the beginning,) and abode not in the truth, (because there is no truth in him.) When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, (and the father of it.)
---TheSeg on 8/11/13


Everything, everything, written in the bible, both OT and NT, is for ALL of mankind. The Jews, the chosen people, were to bring the word of God to the world. They failed thinking it was only for them.

Most of you really need to read the entire bible not just what your denominational pastors teach - and not just a verse here and a verse there. Read it through the eyes of a child with the Holy Spirit by your side to give you wisdom and understanding.
---Steveng on 8/11/13


francis, you say,
"So the seg was wrong, all the angel and Adam and Eve were perfect until sin was found in them" how could they be perfect if sin was found in them? Yes, when God looked at their hearts sin was found in them. Only God is perfect.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


A few of the posts here say that the OT was only for the Jews.
For you who believe that, are the same as the Jews themselves at that time.
---Steveng on 8/7/13

Todays christians are blindly taught from early childhood that anti-christ Jews are the chosen people. Accepting that they are Judean because the merely say they are! Scripturally not realizing that the other largest side of the House of Israel accepted,spread the word. Fulfilling scripturally everything promised.
It is twice as hard to unlearn than to learn as seen on this blog.

The New Testament of the New Covenant is to Israel. Both houses of. Heb 8:8/Jer31:31.
Israels first covenant, Israels second New Covenant.
GOD didn't change....man does.
---Trav on 8/11/13




Jerry: Old covenant = physical separatiom of the believer from unbelievers, location of the believer in a special place of security & provision. New covenant(placed on top of the old, resting on it) = spiritual & total cleansing of the believer by the sinless blood of Jesus Christ which makes regular sacrifices of animal bloods{not the whole instructions of old} irrelevant.
---adetunji on 8/11/13


You gave Adam perfection until sin was found in him,
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13

Nothing was made perfect!
---TheSeg on 8/10/13

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

2 Samuel 22:31 As for God, his way is perfect,

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

So the seg was wrong, all the angel and Adam and Eve were perfect until sin was found in them
---francis on 8/11/13


francis, the Seg is correct, you just won't admit it. You propagate a lie. You gave Adam perfection until sin was found in him, Satan you give perfection, until sin was found in him.
Both individuals you gave looked perfect but were not perfect. Eze 28: tells us he was full of beauty perfect in beauty. He was perfect in his ways because he had not sin yet. When he did, sin was found in him. Sin that had not come out yet. But sin came from within both individuals. They had it all the time. In Eze, both the king Of Tyre and Satan are compared alike. The king was not perfect either.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


Even John Baptist filled with the Holy Spirit before birth, questioned Christ. Mat_11:3!
Christ simply answered, Mat_11:4.

Ezekiel_28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways (from) the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Does not say you were (created perfect!)
He was created first, now being in existence!
He walked perfectly till iniquity was found.

Look at the young man in Mat_19:20!
Saying he has kept the law, what did Christ tell him?
Mat_19:21, If thou wilt be perfect!

Without Christ, no one!
Not Adam, Lucifer, Abraham, Ezekiel, nor the very angels in heaven could be made perfect!

I was just going to say "can't you see that!"
But that's God's mercy, for ya!
---TheSeg on 8/11/13


Lastly
Just want you to know everybody is perfect in their ways from the day they are created! (Luk_2:23 called holy) Until iniquity is found in them! But it does not mean you were created perfect.
Thats why God beheld everything and said it is very good, not perfect!

Not one thing made was made perfect.
Rom_8:22 For we know that (the whole creation) groaneth and travaileth (in pain together) until (now!)
This is the only thing made perfect!

Still many dont see or can even understand such a thing.
Whats why its perfect, only by faith!
And this is not of yourselves it is a gift of God!

The state prevailing during the absence of war!
Harmonious relations, freedom from disputes!
In short, Peace!
---TheSeg on 8/10/13


Nothing was made perfect!
---TheSeg on 8/10/13
EXPAND
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

shira4368 on 8/10/13
You know your pastors doctrine

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It does not line up with this verse. How does a 74 year old woman with her own bible get deceived?
---francis on 8/10/13


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TheSeg: "Nothing was made perfect!"

For that one verse you surely have taken out of context, I will show you over one hundred verses that says otherwise. Do an online KJV bible search for the word "perfect" and become wise.
---Steveng on 8/10/13


We do not serve the Law!
---trey on 8/10/13
rephrase?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God,



---shira4368 on 8/10/13

You know your pastors doctrine
big whoop KNOW GOD'S DOCTRINE

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange

If you pastor doctrine says that it doe snot mater which day the Sabbath is, he is a lowlife, because God's doctrine is VERY specif that the 7th day is the sabbath

You attend that church because you are deceived into worshiping a god that canges
---francis on 8/10/13


Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Nothing was made perfect!
God looked upon all he(God) created and called it all very good.
If people want to change what God said, well what can be done!

It is their will, the will of man!
It should be clear to all Christ was foreordained!
Before all!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/10/13


---Mark_V. on 8/10/13
Adam was in the image of God, he had NEVER sinned, he was perfect, so was satan. Sin is what brought flaw,
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee


---shira4368 on 8/10/13
Galatians 3:15 I speak after the manner of men, Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or ADDETH thereto.

Your pastor is a liar. The idea of Sunday as a day of worship came AFTER the death of Jesus, after the new covenant was ratified by His death on Friday, Thus Sunday cannot be part fo the New Covanent

After 70 years you should have known that you cannot ADD to a covenant after the person has died
---francis on 8/10/13


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francis, now you say,
"Mark_V. on 8/9/13
wrong Adam was created perfect"

Let me help you. Do you know what the definition of perfect is? Perfect means "fawless" Only God is perfect 'fawless'. God never fails. Adam was not perfect, he failed.
Then say,
"God never promised Adam eternal life" No He didn't.
If He had promised Adam eternal life, Adam would alive today. He commanded Adam to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if he did, he would die. If he didn't he would live forever.
---Mark_V. on 8/10/13


Francis, I absolutely agree with you on your last post here. If the very foundation of truth is wrong, everything Markv had built upon that will be false. Paul said, be careful HOW you build.

Adam & Eve were under NO Covenant of WORKS that would result in Eternal life. I don't believe Markv even knows the definition of ETERNAL LIFE. Eternal life does not necessarily mean to live forever. So you are correct, even if Adam & Eve never sinned, they were not ETERNAL, but still EARTHLY.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/13


It is true that Christ did not come to destroy the law. Christ came to fulfill the law and he did. The Jewish law service has been replaced by Christianity! We are now under the Law of Christ! Gal 6:2. Here is the law we are now under:
Lu10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind, and thy neighbour as thyself.

We do not serve the Law! We serve Christ not to obtain salvation, but because Christ obtained it for us!
---trey on 8/10/13


Steven, I did read what you wrote, the very reason I answered you. The Law is not the Gospel. The Gospel saves, the Law saves no one.
---Mark_V. on 8/10/13


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francis, you are right I am 74 and my life is an open book since I always indentify myself as shira4368 and anyone can look at my profile however, I have yet to see yours. I am grounded in my faith and my church and pastor are all in one accord. I know my pastors doctrine. why do you think I attend my church faithfully. I am careful to know certain things about doctrine before I involve myself. you on the otherhand think you keep the law perfectly and you are sinless. we know the bible teaches us we are as filthy rags. it does not matter what the Sabbath is. I attend my church on sundays for 70 yrs. I will not change and I don't want to change. you are not going to change so I will say like I told markv, I am dusting my shoes off.
---shira4368 on 8/10/13


wrong Adam was created perfect??

Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, (and, behold, it was very good.) And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God called nothing perfect, but only good!
Behold, it was very good!

Nothing could be made perfect behold without Christ.
He was foreordained, Established or prearranged unalterably!
By anyone even you!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/10/13


Mark V., did you even read my post?
---Steveng on 8/9/13


Mark_V. on 8/9/13
wrong Adam was created perfect
God never promised Adam eternal life at all

He had eternal life from his creation

We are craeted in sin, and have the promise of eternal lige

not so for adam
---francis on 8/9/13


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Matthew - John are still in the context of the Old Covenant.
This explains why Paul wrote that Jesus was a minister of the circumcision to confirm the promises made unto the Fathers (Rom 15:8).
This explains why Jesus operated according to the O T
He was circumcised (Luke 2:27)
water baptized (Matt 3:15)
taught conditional forgiveness (Matt 6:14)
taught Levitical sacrifice for healing (Matt 8:4)
Follow the commandments (Mark 10:17-19)
Obey the pharisees (Matt 23:2-3)
Observed feast days (Matt 26:17)

In order to better understand Scriptures we need to understand the context of the passages we read. It's important to realize that the events leading up to the cross in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are under the OT.
---michael_e on 8/9/13


francis, if you want to go a round with me on God's Word, just let me know.
---shira4368 on 8/9/13
Go a round or two with your pastor first

Shira, you are 74 years old. You have been at your church serving faithfuly for years. You deserve some honesty from your Pastor.

Set some time aside to speak with your pastor privately. You have earned that time and respect.

Ask your pastor to be honest with you and tell you which day (sunday through saturday) which day is the 7th, and whivh day does the BIBLE say is the sabbath.

For your years of dedication to the baptist church you deserve the truth.

Do it privately
---francis on 8/9/13


A covenant of obedience.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/13
It is not a covenant of works, or obedience. Show me ONE single Christian who is not obedient to God

What it was between Adam and God was FREE WILL

Adam had a choice, he could obey God or choose not to obey God

Adam did not have to earn eternal life, Adam was NEVER EVER promised eternal life

Eternal life was given to him from creation along with a tree of life

But he was given a choice, free will to obey God or not

we all have that same free will
---francis on 8/9/13


francis, you should listen to Mark E. Listen and believe. you say,
"The covenant of works agreement, God promised Adam eternal life if he would obey Him.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13
TEXT PLEASE"


"Then the Lord God took man (this is Adam, I hope you knew that) and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it You shall surely die" (Gen. 2:15-17). If he obedyed he would continue to live, the moment he ate he would die for not obeying God.
That is the covenant God made with Adam. A covenant of obedience.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/13


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Hebrews 11:4 - By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts, and by being dead yet speaketh,

Hebrews 11:7 - By faith Noah being warned of things not seen yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith,

Hebrews 11:8 - By Faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance , obeyed: and he went out, not knowing whither he went, ------>
---RICHARDC on 8/9/13


shira4368 on 8/9/13Start by reading the blog question, and then read Matthew 5:17-18
---francis on 8/9/13


Old Testament:

-Man must follow Gods laws
-If he falters he must make the appropriate sacrifice for his sins

(Hebrews 7:8-9)
-Man couldn't follow Gods laws perfectly
-Man stopped making the appropriate sacrifice for sin

New Testament:

-Christ made himself the perfect sacrifice for our sins (one time for all sins)
-His Spirit lives in us giving us hearts that desire to follow the law

The laws distinguishing Jew from Gentile have been abolished in His flesh(Eph 2:11-16)
---Jasheradan on 8/8/13


Steven, you did not do an online search for Gospel. Not one passage you gave speak about the gospel.You gave,
"1 Kings 8:43, 60" not say anything concerning the gospel.
Then gave,
"1 Chronicles 16:14, 23, 31" That is Davids song or psalm to the Jews for thanksgiving.
Then gave,
"Ecclesiastes 5:9 is talking about vanity, not the gospel.
Then gave,
"Isaiah 18:3" was a proclamation against Ehiopia, not the preaching of the gospel. And in
Isaiah 24:5, the earth was going to be judge for breaking the law of God that is in the hearts of all people. and
"Jeremiah 6:19" is about judgment again, not the gospel, but the breaking of the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/9/13


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francis, if you want to go a round with me on God's Word, just let me know. however, I will never go around with you reading about false prophets. of course, they don't think they are false. just like you. I will still extend the offer to go several rounds with you and I won't have to take my shoes off to count to 18. I'm not stuck in the 60's even tho that was one of the best era's ever. I don't have the time to read a bunch of junk just to spit the bones out.
---shira4368 on 8/9/13


look at the question that this blog asks:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now does your pastor get around teaching " the law stuff: when Jesus make sis clear that only lowlifes teach men to to keep the law?

Answer is a lowlife
---francis on 8/8/13


God's word is for all of mankind, not just the Jews.

I realize that the NT is a whole lot easier to understand than the OT. God chose the people of Israel as a whole to preach God's word throughout the world just as He chose Moses, Noah, Jonah, Job, Ruth, Mary and all the other godly people individually to perform certain tasks.

There is not just one verse to tell the whole story. One must read the entire OT. But here is just one verse specifically:
1 Kings 8:43, 60
1 Chronicles 16:14, 23, 31
Ecclesiastes 5:9
Isaiah 18:3
Isaiah 24:5
Jeremiah 6:19

Be wise now and do an online KJV bible search for "world", "earth,"
---Steveng on 8/8/13


---shira4368 on 8/8/13

You need to take your time and read. Not only other people's post but yuor bible
---francis on 8/8/13


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I haven't been on here for a bit but I just happened to look today and I see francis is still peddling his law stuff. I am so thankful I was saved by grace. I am so thankful God sent His Son to die for my sin. to keep the law would be sinless and no one is sinless, only Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 8/8/13


---Mark_V. on 8/8/13
more garbage from you
no context

I am not a muslim yet I can understand what muslims teach

I am not a taoist yet i understand the eightfold path to enlightenment

Maybe it is just your overall lack of understanding

just maybe
---francis on 8/8/13


God promised a new and better testament to Israel whereby he would give them his Spirit to cause them to do his commandments. Eze 36:24

The old was insufficient. The nt is Gods sufficiency toward Israel.
Where Israel failed under the ot because of their incapability, the nt would succeed through Gods sufficient ability.

The ot to Israel would be replaced with a better testament to Israel. The difference being the ministry of the Spirit of God operating in Israel to fulfill the nt.

John wrote about this ministry of the Spirit working in nt Israel helping them to keep the commandments. 1 John 3:24
---michael_e on 8/8/13


Steven, if the Jews did not beleve the gospel truth by faith, how could they have been told to spread the gospel to other nations?
You say,
"A few of the posts here say that the OT was only for the Jews. For you who believe that, are the same as the Jews themselves at that time. For God told the Jews to spread the news throughout the world." The Jews had the Oracles of God, the Law. They were under the Law that could not save them. Believers in the O.T. were saved the same way as in the New. God saved them by grace through faith. Paul says,
"For unto us was the gosepl preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it" (Heb. 4:2).
---Mark_V. on 8/8/13


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Isaiah 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder, so he shall open, and none shall shut, and he shall shut, and none shall open.

repeated in NT

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

When accused of the possibility of adultery Job's response was this: Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes, why then should I think upon a maid?

repeated in NT
Matthew 5:28 whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
---francis on 8/7/13


A few of the posts here say that the OT was only for the Jews. For you who believe that, are the same as the Jews themselves at that time. For God told the Jews to spread the news throughout the world. The Jews thought it was vain to think it was only for them in which God punished them for not doing what was asked of them. God chose them to spread the news and the Jews failed. Jonah thought the same way, remember that story?

The difference between the OT and the NT is that even if you "think" a crime you have transgreessed the law. For example, if you hate your brother, you have murdered in your heart.
---Steveng on 8/7/13


Obedience to the Law comes out of the life of Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/7/13
I will accept that as a way of saying that once we have accepted Christ he empowers us to keep all the commandments. With the understanding that we come to Christ even in our sin, and through the power of the holy Spirit and the word of God we are sanctified ( agreed)

I will reject those who say that we do not have to obey the law.

---michael_e on 8/7/13
Your post are garbage because before paul was converted, there were already gentiles coming to Jesus. his message was not special or differentthan the rest. Even paul syas so. Galatians 2:2
---francis on 8/7/13


francis //Garbage//
I bet the members of your synagogue are proud of the way you treat God's Word.
---michael_e on 8/7/13


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what is the alternative to not keeping these laws?
---francis on 8/6/13

Trust God. Trust His sacrifice. Believe that Jesus is your atonement for sin, that the blood of Jesus has reconciled you to God.

We do not have to clean up before we accept the sacrifice of Jesus. The HS teaches us how to live the life of Jesus after salvation. Its the life of Jesus that lives in me. Obedience to the Law comes out of the life of Jesus.

Renouncing Torah is a keyword phrase by Orthodox Jews used to deny Christianity. However, how to get their sins forgiven by God without a blood sacrifice eludes them.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/7/13



---Mark_Eaton on 8/6/13
what then are you suggesting:
that I worship other gods
that I make idols to worship
that I take God's name in vain
that i reject the sabbath
that i dishonour my parents
that I be a murderer
that I commit adultery
that I steal
that I lie
that i covet

what is the alternative to not keeping these laws?
---francis on 8/6/13


There is no house of Israel in the boC.
---michael_e on 8/6/13
GARBAGE
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls ALL ISRAELITES.

19:10 And this continued by the space of two years, so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.


Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard [it], they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe, and they are all zealous of the law:
---francis on 8/6/13


So why should I, a Jew, renounce Torah?
---Jerry1957 on 8/3/13

You want to keep the Law, go ahead.

But, there is no salvation in the Law.

Just how are you getting atonement from God for your sins? From the shed blood of animals on Yom Kippur? Not at all. No sacrifices are being made according to the Law of Moses. You are using a man-made atonement that Moses never gave you.

You gave up on the true Law of Moses a long time ago.

Actually, God made it this way so that you would see His true sacrifice for all sins. His son, Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/6/13


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The general understanding is if we are not under the OT we must be under the NT. There is a purpose separate from Israels covenants, the mystery of Christ (Eph 3:4, Col 4:3).
The NT wasn't a mystery. Descriptions of the NT are found in the OT. The prophetic nature of Israels new covenant contrasts the hidden nature of the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9).
Jeremiah a prophet of Israel, Jere 31:31-34, said the NT would be made with the house of Israel. Jer 31:31
Heb 8:8-13 says the NT would be made with the house of Israel.
There is no house of Israel in the boC. They are in unbelief just as the Gentiles Rom 11:32). There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ (Gal 3:28).
---michael_e on 8/6/13


The covenant of works agreement, God promised Adam eternal life if he would obey Him.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13
TEXT PLEASE

and these two verses make you theology... well ..mute

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things, and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them THAT OBEY HIM.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them THAT OBEY HIM,

But we are talking about the writing on the books of the NT.
---francis on 8/6/13


francis, a covenant is an agreement between God and man. The covenant of works agreement, God promised Adam eternal life if he would obey Him. Adam broke that agreement. He took all mankind down. Every descendant of Adam is condemned when he is born. When the next covenant came by God, He promised them blessings for doing good, and curses for doing bad. If they could keep all of the law perfect they would be saved, but all broke that covenant. The believers from the Old Testament were saved by God's grace through faith. Not by works of the Law. you need an education on covenants and what they mean.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13


And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles, and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.
---TheSeg on 8/5/13


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michael_e on 8/5/13
Garbage


Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in
---francis on 8/5/13


The Church,the BoC, was revealed to Paul
---michael_e on 8/5/13
GARBAGE

BEFORE PAUL WAS CONVERTED:

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written,

Acts 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Acts 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
---francis on 8/5/13


The Church,the BoC, was revealed to Paul and is described as a mystery (Eph 3:6, Col 1:27, Eph 5:32). It isn't the subject of prophecy, whether the prophecy is the OT or fulfillment in the New (Rom 16:25, Col 1:26).

After all the NT was never intended for the Church, but was prophesied and reiterated in Hebrews to be applied to Israel:
Heb 8:8, quoting Jere 31:31.

The necessary division for proper interpretation of the Bible isn't between the OT and the New, as if one was for Israel and the other for the Church. Neither testament speaks to the mystery of the Church, the B oC

The most important division to make is between both testaments (subjects of prophecy to Israel) and the Church (the subject of the mystery).
---michael_e on 8/5/13


The Old Testament Covenant was a covenant of works designed especially for Israel. People were been saved by Grace in the old Testament, just like in the New Testament.

---Mark_V. on 8/5/13
GARBAGE
how could they be saved by grace in a covenant fo works?
ANd where of where have you ever heard in the entire bibe, in any version of covenant of works?

If they were save dby grace in the Old just as in the new than there is no difference


Anyway, I think he is talking about teh writting of the books of the new testement, and not the covenant itself

Every covenant is a new one, if it is different. the one with Abraham would be new covenant compared to the one with Noah
---francis on 8/5/13


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francis, the gospel has been around from the time of Gen. 3:15. That is when the gospel was first preached. The Old Testament is the Old Testament covenant. The New Testament is the New Testament covenant. The Old Testament Covenant was a covenant of works designed especially for Israel. People were been saved by Grace in the old Testament, just like in the New Testament. The gospel does not change the covenant did change, it became a better covenant. We are under the New Covenant not the old Covenant. I am talking about believers only. The unbelievers are still under the covenant of works, that is why they need Christ, for works never saved anyone, only God (Jesus Christ) saves.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13


Under law God demands righteousness, under grace He bestows it
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD, and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.



The NT is the same as the OT except it's a lot stricter. God's laws are the same, but a lot tougher to bear.
---Steveng on 8/4/13
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
---francis on 8/5/13


In Hebrews chapter 8, our covenant with Jesus is called "better" . . . not only "new".

And Jesus has not renounced the Torah, but fulfilled it.

Galatians 3:24-25. The Torah was meant to bring us to Christ. If we are with Jesus, the Torah has done its job, I can see (c: But "All scripture" is "profitable", we also have > 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
---willie_c: on 8/5/13


//No matter what you told these men, they open the books we call OT, and search it to see if what they were told was true//
No matter! What you tell anyone, if it has come from God, you will not believe.
If it had come from God! You would not have to open anything, to see "if" it was true!

//Why? Because the apostles and wrote strictly from what we call the OT books//
And they were all (filled with the Holy Ghost,) and began to speak with other tongues, (as the Spirit gave them utterance.)
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you!

Joh_5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/5/13


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The mystery of Christ teaches that the position of the new creature, the BoC, doesn't depend on covenants, but on the gospel of the grace of God first delivered to Paul to us (Col 1:20-28). The gospel is not a covenant.
Since unashamed workmen separate prophecy from mystery we must separate the Body of Christ from Israels New Covenant.

The New Covenant was part of Gods prophesied purpose to make a peculiar people on the earth to bless all nations (Gentiles) (Exo 19:5-6).

The New Covenant accomplishes for Israel what the Old couldn't, provide Israel the ability to serve God in righteousness on the earth. It provides for forgiveness of Israels sins and the spiritual ability to walk in Gods statutes (Jer 31:31-34, Eze 36:27).
---michael_e on 8/5/13


The New Testament is the New Covenant, the Old Testament is about obedience to the law, a Covenant of works. Under law God demands righteousness, under grace He bestows it (Rom 3:21-24: 8:3,4: Gal. 2:16: Phil 3:9) Law connects Moses and works, while grace ties in with Christ and faith (John 1:17: Rom. 10:4-10). Under law obedience brings blessings (Deut. 28:1-14), Under Grace blessings is bestowed as a free gift. When obedience does not respond to love, grace teaches and disciplines (Tit. 2:11,12: 1 Cor. 31,32). The New Testament is a new and better Covenant.
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13


The NT is the same as the OT except it's a lot stricter. God's laws are the same, but a lot tougher to bear.
---Steveng on 8/4/13


Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

No matter what you told these men, they open the books we call OT, and search it to see if what they were told was true

why? because the apostles and wrote strictly from what we call the OT books

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
---francis on 8/4/13


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Does not matter, because you are right. Except for some stuff in revelation, very little new information in the books of the NT.

Abraham who lived before the death of Jesus was declared righteous without the law so that is not new.

What the apostles did was write to the church to encourage and correct errors in doctrine, and they all had ONE SINGLE SOURCE, the books of the OT
francis

The Name Jesus Christ!
Act_4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Wow!
---TheSeg on 8/4/13


2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

( That's all 66 books )
---RichardC on 8/4/13


"What the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (Rom. 8:3,4). "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes." (Rom. 10:4).
---Mark_V. on 8/4/13"
Amen. Jesus fulling the law and Phophets simply means that Jesus completed the task that the Father initiated through them. For "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached." Luk 16:16
---joseph on 8/4/13


Jerry1957, I wonder if you mean the writings of the new testament?

Does not matter, because you are right. Except for some stuff in revelation, very little new information in the books of the NT.

Abraham who lived before the death of Jesus was declared righteous without the law so that is not new.

What the apostles did was write to the church to encourage and correct errors in doctrine, and they all had ONE SINGLE SOURCE, the books of the OT

The quoted the OT and expounded on it
Matthew 5:28 whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Job 31:1 I made a covenant with mine eyes, why then should I think upon a maid?


---francis on 8/4/13


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Jerry, No one renouces the law. The law is very much alive condemning those who are without Christ. Matthew does not say renouce. If you understood the condition of the believer you would not ask that.
Here is the condition of the believer,
"For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (Rom. 8:3,4). Jesus fulfilled the law for us. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes." (Rom. 10:4).
---Mark_V. on 8/4/13


Why should I, a Jew, renounce Torah?
Jerry1957

I think you would be hard-pressed to find someone to say you have to renounce the Torah.
Just as the NT is the word given to you by God, Not Man! So are the OT and the Torah!

So to renounce it, is to renounce God!

With just the OT and Torah, you would not be able to, nor know how to fulfill the law!
Many here are going to tell you, you cannot fulfill the law!

The fulfillment of the law is not in the law, it is the law. All the law!
No one can do all the law. That is to say by the law!

But you can love each other, more than yourself!
Rom_13:10!
---TheSeg on 8/4/13


The New Covenant gives you what you could not achieve by doing the law. We can see it because we have the word given to us. What the old could not give us the the New Covenant did that is the "word" Jesus the word made flesh given to us.
---Bryan on 8/4/13


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