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Can Gentiles Cut Flesh

In a previous blog it was posted that Lev 19:28 says we are not make cutting for the flesh. v.19:2 says Moses was to tell this to Israel. Does that include gentiles?

Lets discuss Leviticus 19.

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 ---NurseRobert on 8/7/13
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Francis: You really should not add to God's Word.
---Grandma on 8/24/13
Post ONE SINGLE PLACE where I added to God's word

JUST ONE

---Mark_V. on 8/24/13
Before we continue to talk about whether or not one in living in sin, what is your definition of Saturday

WEBSTER:
Saturday noun
Definition of SATURDAY
:the seventh day of the week
---francis on 8/24/13


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Having faith and grace does not exempt us from obeying the laws of God. It is the will of God that we obey all his laws:


ARE YOU IN THE COVENANT OF GOD?

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---francis on 8/24/13


Francis: You really should not add to God's Word.

Jesus gave is TWO commandments to obey. None of them mention pork or Saturday Sabbath.

If we obey those two, we are obeying the original ten.

Give it up. You are a FALSE teacher, as described in Jude.
---Grandma on 8/24/13


francis, none of us will live in sin when we finally die physcially. But as long as we are alive, "We all fall short of the glory of God." That means you too. Only One was perfect and that was Jesus Christ. And in this life time, you will never become Jesus Christ. Neither in the next. Accept who you are, a sinner saved by Grace, or continue under the written Law. You seem to choose the Law. That is ok, you are not along.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/13


---Mark_V. on 8/23/13
although we are justified by faith, we cannot live in sin,

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners ( NOT OBEDIENT TO THE LAW), is therefore Christ the minister of sin ( NOT OBEYING THE LAW)? God forbid.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but ( what is important is) the keeping of the commandments of God
---francis on 8/23/13




Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Lots of you have bad theology, which leads you away from keeping the commandments of God. Be careful, if you do not repent, you will not have the right to the tree of life

Lots of you claim to have faith, know that faith without works is dead. Remember those who in faith preached Jesus, in faith cast out demons in Jesus name, and in faith healed the sick, they were refused into heaven because they lived in sin

Revelation 14:12 the saints: are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 8/23/13


francis, the two passages you quoted are great passages and do not speak on your behalf, even though you think they do. Paul is speaking to believing Jews in Gal 2:16,17).
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ" There you have it, believers are not justified by the works of the Law, which is what you teach. Then Paul says,
"even we have believed (believing Jews, the we) in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law, (and here is the reason) for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified" (Gal. 2:15,16).
---Mark_V. on 8/23/13


Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners ( NOT OBEDIENT TO THE LAW), is therefore Christ the minister of sin ( NOT OBEYING THE LAW)? God forbid.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but ( what is important is) the keeping of the commandments of God.
---francis on 8/22/13


---Grandma on 8/22/13
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin ( NOT KEEP THE LAW), that grace may abound? God forbid.

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin ( NOT KEEP THE LAW), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:

You theology lacks substance.

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---francis on 8/22/13


Francis: Ephesians 2:8-9

That's my reply to you.
---Grandma on 8/22/13




---Grandma on 8/22/13
That is what you say. lets see what the Lord has to say about that

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
---francis on 8/22/13


Francis: I am washed in Christ's blood. I am going to heaven, even if I eat pork. So is the Jew who believes Christ is Messiah. Even if he eats pork.
---Grandma on 8/22/13


---Mark_V. on 8/22/13
merriam-webster Definition of SATURDAY: the seventh day of the week

Mark_V what is your definition of saturday?



do not eat pork????. is that one of your commandments?
---shira4368 on 8/22/13
No not mine THE LORD'S:
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD
Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD
Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD,

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD
---francis on 8/22/13


You suggested that a person who accepts Christ but eats pork can't go to heaven.
---Grandma on 8/21/13

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

These are the judgments of God, when I read them, I yielded to God, you when read them you........?
---francis on 8/21/13


francis, you keep posting the same garbish, the laws given to Israel. Laws that are binding and condemning all those who are not saved by grace through faith. No one could keep the laws the reason they need Jesus Christ. But you say man can keep the Laws he has no need of Christ in his life. You don't speak for Christ, you speak for the law that never saved anyone.
And of course you need to do that in order to add the Law of Saturday Sabbath. Once you give up the laws, your Saturday Sabbath goes out the door. Good luck in keeping all of the laws of God. Through all history no one has done that yet other then Christ. Maybe you are the second coming of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13


francis, I just had a good laugh. do not eat pork????. is that one of your commandments?
---shira4368 on 8/22/13


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Does that include gentiles?

Leviticus 20:2 "Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech, he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones."


Clearly spelled out here: Exodus 12:49 "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you."

How Acts 15 relate to Leviticus 19_20?

The "apostles and elders came together for to consider" in regards to the gentile converts/believers, if "it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
---Nana on 8/22/13


You suggested that a person who accepts Christ but eats pork can't go to heaven.
---Grandma on 8/21/13
I did not suggest it. I posted it:
God said it:
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD
Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of the LORD
Isaiah 66:12 For thus saith the LORD,

Isaiah 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Your unbelief has nothing to do with me, it is unbelief about the word of God

Proverbs 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin
---francis on 8/21/13


---Trav on 8/21/13
balderdash

Romans 11:13-24 For I speak to you Gentiles, And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them,

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,
---francis on 8/21/13


Francis: I never said such a thing.

You suggested that a person who accepts Christ but eats pork can't go to heaven.

You are lost.
---Grandma on 8/21/13


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Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

---francis on 8/20/13

"Them" above is Israel. The House of. See you forgot to mention the intent of the verse. Refer Heb 8:18/Jer 31:33.

Isa_32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

Jer_17:5 Thus saith the LORD, Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
---Trav on 8/21/13


---Mark_V. on 8/21/13 -
So in your theology those in Christ, and are under grace are free to worship other gods, free to take the name of Jehovah in vain, free to make idols and worship, free to put your foot on the sabbath, free to dishonour your father and your mother, free to kill, free to steal, free to commit adultery, free to lie, free to covet.

Grandma seems to be suggesting that if you accept Christ and do not worship other gods, do not take the name of Jehovah in vain, do not make idols and worship, keep the sabbath, honour your father and your mother, do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not covet. do not eat pork, then you are lost

If not what is the alternative for one in Christ?
---francis on 8/21/13


Francis, do you not see that when you speak you are only speaking to those who are not in Christ? They have to follow your rules and try to be saved, but they can never satisfy the law, that is why there is no salvation under the Law. You speak the same words and no one but those who are under the law that can hear you. You speak to those are are carnally minded. Those in the Old Testament spoke about the law over and over and it got them nothing. It's not getting you anywhere either.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13


--Grandma on 8/20/13
1: Are you suggesting that because Jesus died for your sin, that you are now free from having to obey the law of God which he wishes to place in your heart and in your mind?
2: If you are not keeping the law of God, then what are you doing?
3: What do these verse say to you?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
---francis on 8/20/13


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Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.

Jeremiah 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not,

Jeremiah 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
---francis on 8/20/13


Francis: I am saying that my salvation, whether I go to heaven or not, is NOT dependent on my obedience to the Law. Your's obviously is.

I'm am saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I have forgiveness for my sins, and eternal life.

You cannot sit there and tell me that you PERFECTLY obey every single Law.

Jesus says the Great Commandment is to love God completely and to love your neighbor. I'm doing that.
---Grandma on 8/20/13


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

Isaiah 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

There are some, many who want nothing to do with the law of God in their hearts. All they want is to be called Christian, so they can fit in

Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
---francis on 8/20/13


--Grandma on 8/20/13
Are you trying to say that those who keep the laws of God are not saved, when God himself says this: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
Hebrews 10:16

and this
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp, and the law is light, To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.

Are you that evil savage woman that the law protest me from?

Isaiah 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD
---francis on 8/20/13


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Francis: You are still lost. Christ's death and life taught me all I need for eternal life.

I suppose since you claim to observe the letter of the Law, you would not have healed on the Sabbath when Christ did. He obviously sinned. (All sarcasm intended. I know Christ did not sin. )
---Grandma on 8/20/13


Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Hebrews 10:16 saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king,

It is God who gives the laws, and God who put's it in the heart of His people

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul:

I see it now! The are unconverted, unregenerate carnal minded people,
---francis on 8/20/13


Trust me to post in the wrong thread lol
---Carla on 8/20/13


Francis: Go ahead. Abstain from pork and shellfish. Worship whenever you want. Follow every single Law in the Old Testament. Nobody here is going to stop you.

You are still lost.
---Grandma on 8/19/13
That is a statement fo ignorance because it directly contradicts the word of God

Deuteronomy 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh,


Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:


2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
---francis on 8/20/13


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Don't' wear hats in church, do wear long hair, do remarry, wear costly apparel it all the same deceptive accursed gospel people cannot be be prefect... You are made complete through Christ, you are whole, you are healed you are free, you are by his grace, mercy and power prefect, when he comes again those who strive to do well, run the race, those who endure, will be perfect-ED, changed,corrupted- incorruptible moral shall give way to immortality.Good will over come evil.

Mat 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

2Th 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
---Carla on 8/20/13


Grandma, francis contradicts you because he is under the written letter of the Law. He has to give you the laws. He has no other defense but the laws, because if he lets go of the laws, then he would have to give up the Law of Saturday Sabbath. A Law that is binding to him. Even though man in the Old Testament, made the day Saturday as the the Seventh day of Sabbath. He forgets that man made Sunday the day of Sabbath. And that those in Christ are not under the written letter of the Law, because if they still were, they would still be lost. For only unbelievers are under the law, the reason they are guilty before God for breaking the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/20/13


grandma, no person can obey the 10 commandments. it would mean he was perfect and I don't know anyone who is perfect. I've seen some who "think" they are perfect. I am not correcting you grandma, just making light of those who think they are perfect. I love your post.
---shira4368 on 8/19/13


Francis: Go ahead. Abstain from pork and shellfish. Worship whenever you want. Follow every single Law in the Old Testament. Nobody here is going to stop you.

You are still lost.
---Grandma on 8/19/13


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God holds everyone responsible
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13
USE BIBLE ANSWER FIRST:
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:



Francis: Like I said, you are lost.
---Grandma on 8/18/13
You say a lot of things, i just posted the scripture that says they will be destroyed for eating swine


The Jew goes to Hell for denying Christ is Messiah, not for eating pork.
---Grandma on 8/17/13
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 8/18/13
---francis on 8/19/13


francis, you said as your answer,
"God is so just, that he does not hold anyone responsible who live in ignorance, but all who know are held accountable"
God holds everyone responsible for all come short of the glory of God. All man sin. Those without Christ, have been condemned already.
So you follow the written law on purpose and preach it, against the works of Christ on the cross, and when God judges you, you will bring out your trump card and tell God, "God I was ignorant, I am not guilty." And God is going to say to you, "You are more guilty then the rest, you knew the Truth and rejected it"
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13


Francis: Like I said, you are lost.
---Grandma on 8/18/13


Ezekiel 18:29 The way of the Lord is not equal.

Deut 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Judgment cannot be just and equal, if different people in different times, receive difference sentences from the one eternal unchanging and Just God

God is so just, that he does not hold anyone responsible who live in ignorance, but all who know are held accountable

The very day that Paul spoke about God as creator on Mars hill, they were now responsible. In times past they worshiped idols God overlooked that

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
---francis on 8/18/13


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Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar, as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? [Is] God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

Romans 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory, why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
---francis on 8/18/13


The Jew goes to Hell for denying Christ is Messiah, not for eating pork.
---Grandma on 8/17/13
Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
---francis on 8/18/13


Francis, you are lost.

The Jew goes to Hell for denying Christ is Messiah, not for eating pork. The believer goes to heaven because they are washed in the blood of Christ, not for abstaining from pork, or even not for worshipping Him on Sunday, instead of Friday or Saturday.
---Grandma on 8/17/13


Deuteronomy 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The emphasis on God as creator is NOT shifted at all. It is a reminder to let servants rest, because they were not allowed rest in Egypt when they were servants
---francis on 8/17/13


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I would like to talk in this light about the judgment of God.

Would it be justice if God sent some to hell for one type of sin, and allowed another in heaven for the exact same sin?

Example: Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

A Jew who eats swine will perish, should a gentile who knows the word of God get to enter heaven while the jew sits in the lake of fire for eating swine?
is that equity?

Psalms 98:9 he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.
---francis on 8/17/13


---Grandma on 8/15/13
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Here is the OT reference

Leviticus 23:37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day

when you read the whole chapter you will see that every feast day or feast week had a sabbath day associated with it, and you will see where God separated the 7th day sabbath from the feast or holiday sabbaths
---francis on 8/17/13


Most Christians, even the most carnal and backslidden, would never desecrate or defile the local church building. Even among most lost people there is a reverence and sacredness to the church building.

But. . . Did you know?

If you are truly born again the Holy Spirit of God dwells within in (John 14:17, Romans 8:9, 11) and your body is the temple of God. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 makes this very clear.

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/13


Also, please cite a New Testament chapter and verse to support what you said about keeping the Law and blood.
---Grandma on 8/15/13

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, ...Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Meat and drink here are not diet, but the meat (animal sacrifices) and drink ( wine offerings), which were a shadow of the sacrifice of Jesus ( body and blood)


Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, ... Which stood only in meats and drinks, ... until the time of reformation.

So the blood sacrifice stood only until the time of the death of jesus
---francis on 8/16/13


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Lev_19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh (for the dead,) nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Doesn't this say for the dead?

And isn't this cutting the flesh?
Exo_21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges, he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post, and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul, and he shall serve him forever.

Well how about when you go to a doctor and he has to cut your flesh?
I find this cutting of the flesh so silly!

So, I'll just say this again!
Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God!
Rom_3:24 Being justified FREELY!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/16/13


---Mark_V. on 8/16/13
Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men, Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth,or ADDETH thereto.

For the sabbath emphasis to be shifted it would have to be like the Lord's supper, placed in the covenent BEFORE the death of jesus

So who, which man shifted the emphasesis? scripture place

Once Jesus died NOTHING could be added to the covenant

Second and most important: thebath points to Jesus as Creator, under no circumstances can that be changed
---francis on 8/16/13


francis, everyone needs Christ to fulfill the Law for them.
Scripture provides the reasons behind the Sabbath. In Genesis, the Sabbath was a celebration of God's work in creation (Gen. 2:2-3: Exo. 20:11). After the Exodus, the Sabbath expanded to a celebration of God's deliverance from oppression in Egypt (Deut. 5:15). As a result of the resurrection, the Sabbath's emphasis shifted once again. It became a celebration of the "rest" we have through Christ Jesus who delivers us form sin and the grave (Heb. 4:1-11). For the Christian Church, the most dangerous snare was a failure to recognize that Jesus was the substance that fulfilled the symbol of the Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13


---Grandma on 8/15/13
If Jesus came to fulfill the Law, why do you honour your father and mother, why do you worship only one God?

fulfill does not mean do away with, It means to carry out fully, obey completely.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. ( do away with the law or obey and carry out the law fully)

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Did Jesus do away with all righteousness or did he carry out obey all righteousness?

---NurseRobert on 8/15/13
How many of the laws of the USA do you obey?
---francis on 8/15/13


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NurseRobert,

The heathen nations actually tattooed themselves. Because Israel was God's chosen people, they were forbidden to do anything that resembled the heathens. Many tatoo's were of their heathen gods, or initiation rights into heathen practices. Israel was to be separate and holy unto God in a godless world.

Does it apply to us today? Yes, but not because it is law. Why, if we too are to be separate, and holy unto God would anyone even want to practice what is worldly or heathens even now...today

If we know why it is, what it represents, and never pleased God, would you want to do something you know does not please God?
---kathr4453 on 8/15/13


OLD COVENANT
Exodus 19:8 the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken WE WILL DO ( human effort)

NEW COVENANT
Hebrews 10:16 saith the Lord, I WILL PUT my laws into their hearts, and in their minds WILL I WRITE them ( Gods promise)

OLD COVENANT ALLEGORY
Abraham takes it upon himself and makes Ismael with Hagar

NEW COVENANT ALLEGORY
God gives Abraham Isaac, the son of promise

OLD COVENANT TYPE
Circumcision of the flesh made with human hands

NEW COVENANT ANTITYPE
Circumcision of the heart made by God

God is the one placing His Laws in My heart, and circumcising My heart: So my strength to obey all God's laws comes not from me, but Christ who dwells in me
---francis on 8/15/13


Francis: If Jesus came to fulfill the Law, why do you say we are required to obey it? That does not make sense.

Ephesians 2:8-9. Please explain that too.

Also, please cite a New Testament chapter and verse to support what you said about keeping the Law and blood.
---Grandma on 8/15/13


Francis, Jewish tradition says there are 613 Mitzvot (Commandments). Are you saying you follow each and every one?

Do you rest on Shavu'ot?
Do you rest on the first and seventh day of Passover?

---NurseRobert on 8/15/13


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---NurseRobert on 8/14/13
The only Laws that Christian are not to follow are laws dealing with blood sacrifices because Jesus became our sacrifice. This also includes the blood sacrifice of circumcision

The hallmark of the new covenant is this: Hebrews 10:16...I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

before his death, Jesus added two ordinances to the covenant:Foot washing & The lord's super. And he took away one: The earthly sanctuary services, by his sacrifice and the destruction of the sanctuary veil and saying It ( the sanctuary is finished.

Any law in the OT which if violated would have been a sin, remain a sin if violated. God's holiness ( tolerance for sin) cannot be changed
---francis on 8/14/13


Nurse: Francis never gives a straight answer.

I think he picks and chooses what laws he wants to obey.
---Grandma on 8/14/13


What you've done, Francis, is dance around the question. It's a simple yes, or no question.

Do you believe, as a Christian, you are required to follow OT law?

If yes, are you required to to follow all the laws?

If No, which ones do you not have to follow?

---NurseRobert on 8/14/13


---NurseRobert on 8/14/13
I think I clearly posted what the bible says. Either you choose to believe it ir not
The none hebrews who wished to be part fo God's people had to be circumcised, and keep the same laws

Now your other question abnout stoning your neighbour is an easy one
1 Peter 2:14 ...governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers,

look up sunday blue laws
---francis on 8/14/13


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So, Frances, what you're saying is we are required to follow Jewish law, including dietary, religious observance, etc.

So, do you stone your neighbor for working on the Sabbath? (Exodus 31:12-15). Do you wear cotton/polyester clothing?

Do you shave?

Do you pick and choose what laws you follow?

I do not believe I am under Jewish law.
---NurseRobert on 8/14/13


NurseRobert, I suppose the question is: why would any person, of sound mind, want to cut themselves? And is it something we should ignore?
---Warwick on 8/7/13

Warwick, sorry, I missed your response. Couple of things come to mind.

1. People have interpreted this to mean should not be getting tattoos or piercing, but I believe this verse has been taken out of context and is talking about worshiping the dead.

2. The actual purpose of this blog was to discuss the OT laws and whether Christians are under these laws. Our SDA friends on here believe that to be the case, there are others who do not.
---NurseRobert on 8/14/13


---NurseRobert on 8/13/13
Acts 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

was this man a Jew or a gentile who went to jerusalem to worship?

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant
---francis on 8/13/13


Thank you Mark.

Francis, are you saying that gentiles are under Jewish law, and we should obey all rules of the Old testament?
---NurseRobert on 8/13/13


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NurseRoberts, the oracles of God were only given to Israel. If any Gentiles lived among them, they too must have heard them. But the other nations were never given the Laws. God still finds them guilty because what may be known about God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom. 1:18-23).
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


If this is the case, do non-jews fall under these laws?
---NurseRobert on 8/7/13

Genesis 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

God does not exclude anyone
ALL the nations of teh earth shall be blessed

If you do not believe that none Hebrews were to keep the law consider these: the Nethinims.
---francis on 8/8/13


Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Jew or gentile, once you know the word of God you are thus responsible to God

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
---francis on 8/8/13


Cluny 3:16 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and A DIFFERENT LAW for the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Cluny 3:17 One law and one manner shall be for you, and A DIFFERENT LAW for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
---francis on 8/8/13


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\\Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. \\

If you read the contexts, they are talking about something else.

Besides, you have said on several occasions that the only laws God gave are the Ten Commandments, and anything else are merely laws of Moses.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/8/13


Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.


Numbers 9:14 And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD, according to the ordinance of the passover, and according to the manner thereof, so shall he do: ye shall have one ordinance, both for the stranger, and for him that was born in the land.

Numbers 15:15 One ordinance [shall be both] for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you], an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye [are], so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
---francis on 8/8/13


NurseRoberts: [2 Tim.3:16] All scripture from God is good for all mankind except that scripture had been changed or modified by the Lord Jesus Christ. God's plan is that the whole earth will know Him through His relationship with Abraham & his descendants.
---Adetunji on 8/8/13


This issue I'm bring up is all of Lev 19. In verse 2, Moses was commanded "Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel" at which time a number of laws were given to the Jewish people. If this is the case, do non-jews fall under these laws?
---NurseRobert on 8/7/13


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Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Jew or gentile, once you know the word of God you are thus responsible to God


Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained,
---francis on 8/7/13


NurseRobert, I suppose the question is: why would any person, of sound mind, want to cut themselves? And is it something we should ignore?
---Warwick on 8/7/13


Normally cutting oneself today is considered a sign of sever depression. There is a woman with a blog who was raised in a very strict fundamentalist home (her words) and would cut herself where it could not be seen. (Among other things, she was afraid the rapture would hit and she'd be left behind.)

It's a behavior that I do not understand.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/7/13


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