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Does God Have Rights

Very few here believe that God has a right to do what wills with His creation. The others say God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose, what says you? Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 8/16/13
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Isaiah 1:16_17 "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,
Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
---Nana on 8/23/13

Not entering the argument. Just like your posting this in Isa for widows/orphans.

This scripture below comes to mind on man's will with GOD.

Joh_6:65 he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mat_20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Many....is not all.
---Trav on 8/26/13


God has His Right for His order of arrangement-

God is a consuming fire - God's elect will teach the people.

Israel 1 (all)
"The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah."

[...]
vs19 "If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat of the good of the land:"

20 "But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."
...

Isaiah 1:9 "Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."
---char on 8/25/13


God has the right to be true-just and fair-

[...]Isaiah 1:13 "Bring no more vain oblations, incense is an abomination unto Me, the new moons and Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with, it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting."


[rituals - man made traditions and customs that go against His Word.]

Isaiah 1:16 "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil,"


Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well: seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." [Revelation 18:7]
---char on 8/25/13


Isaiah:"the salvation of YHVH".
1:29 "For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen."

28 "And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed."[Deut4:24]

"Oaks grove worshippers" will be ashamed
30 "For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water."
31 "And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them."

["tow" wick of the oil (lantern) brougt up to the flame keeping the light burning]
---char on 8/25/13


Shira, I write down the passage and yet you reject it. Is anyone stopping you? No. You have a reason for rejecting it. There is always a cause or a motive for our decisions, that is why our will is not free. You say,
" God is not going to hunt you down and make you get saved. Anyone who believes that needs to study more."
You need to study before you answer someone. Christ did not come here to see if there were any who seek after Him. Of course not. Romans 3:11 emphatically declares , "There is none that seeketh after God" So what does Jesus do?
"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lst" (Luke 19:10). And you say no, not true, to study more.
---Mark_V. on 8/26/13




There is no talk of remnant at all there in Isaiah 1. You are reading what is not there.

Peter is not wishing, rather tells Simon what he need do.
John also told the people what to do, Luke 3:10_17.

Regardless, Jesus stated: Matt.13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Go ahead and tell us why that which Jesus declared so simply and clearly is lacking, incomplete and wrong, go ahead.
---Nana on 8/25/13


markv, why do you get on here and tell a lie about free will? I know God has all power and all knowing and He can do what He pleases. free will is how God made us. we have a choice in all things. GOD MADE US THAT WAY. we can accept God or reject God. You even had a choice if you were saved. God is not going to hunt you down and make you get saved. Anyone who believes that needs to study more.
---shira4368 on 8/25/13


There is hundreds of passages that speak on the condition of lost man. But everyone who believes in free will, say that lost man is capable of chosing Christ while lost. But,
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14) and it also say,
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God (Rom. 8:7,8) If those who are carnal had free will, they would be able to please God by choosing Him, but they don't. they are not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
---Mark_V. on 8/25/13


Nana - I don't think you understand those verses right,

In Isaiah 1 - God is saying to change, But would be direct to the remnant, God has blinded Israel , Deuteronomy 29:4 - This would be direct to the remnant that God plans to Save, Romans 11:5 - God would still have to be the One that changes there Heart - Deuteronomy - 30:6

In Acts 8:21 - Peter is wishing for Simon Salvation, - Simon is still in iniquity- even after being Baptize - Act 8:15 - They Might - receive the Holy Ghost - Why ? Because it is a Gift of God, Not everyone receives it, You have to be baptize with the Holy Spirit and that's a act of God, Not the works of man, or with money,
---RICHARDC on 8/25/13


Anoint: God alone confirms His Word.
He alone performed death/resurrection. I see now Those who believe He choose a select few to save and others not to be - saved
have placed restrictions on the power of the resurrection.

He alone arranged the order of operation.

He will not go against His word spoken or written

John 3(all
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.
---char on 8/25/13




francis, you say,
"The others say God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose, what says you?
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13
Who said "God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose."

The answer is the free willers. They say that God cannot save anyone unless sinful man gives Him permission, because man has a free will to choose Him or not. God is checkmated by sinful man and cannot save him. Which is false. Sinful man does not choose Christ.
"There is none who understand, there is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11). You say there is, God says there isn't. I believe the Word of God.
As for the devil, God controls the devil.
---Mark_V. on 8/25/13


God has every right to be Savior.

The adversary is a liar.

Everyone needs God - without believing His Anoint Word-"Christ" - your stuck with your own words, the words of the adversary or the words of men.

Praise God for His anointing.
God alone confirms His Word-
Christ - In Spirit and In truth.

He alone smears out the lies of the adversry and rescues from death.
Repentance unto remission
---char on 8/24/13


The others say God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose, what says you?
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13
Who said "God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose."

what people say is that man has free will. Man can choose to obey God, to serve God or reject God

DO you think God will was that Adam should sin? No it was not. God hates sin. But Adam had free will, he could choose to obey or not, he choose not to obey

Same thing with you, you know that the bible says that we are to keep the sabbath day holy, you choose on your own free will not to do so, and you have given your reason why you choose not to follow God
---francis on 8/24/13


"( Is it not God: that has to Change the heart of man, So he can truly Believe ? )"
RICHARDC
No, it is not.

Acts 8:20_22 "But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee."

Isaiah 1:16_17 "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,
Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."
---Nana on 8/23/13


Mark E, you say,
"What I find disturbing, is that I missed this statement of his to you..."For in order for a person to choose Christ he has to be a believer already" That is true. Why would an unbeliever commited his life to Christ if he has no faith in Christ? A person who is a genuine believer has faith, and no one lost has it, until God gives it to him. Here is why,
"Faith comes from hearing, "and hearing by the Word of God" We are saved by Grace, and once God gives us spiritual hearing in our spiritual birth we receive faith to believe. A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/13


Mark E 2: Even the beginning of faith, the disposition to seek salvation, is itself a work of Grace, and a gift of God. We are told by Paul, that we are saved "through faith" ( that is, as the instrumental cause) but never once does he say that we are saved "on account of faith" (that is, as the meritorious cause).
(Matt. 19:26) The disciples ask Jesus "Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered,
"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible" With men salvation is impossible. It is all the work of God. Jesus said,
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent"
---Mark_V. on 8/24/13


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Nana - on 8/23/ 13 - Christ does not now show What God produces in us, But what he Wish in Us, ------- > ?

2 Thesssalonians 2:16 - Now our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and God even our Father, which has love us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through Grace,
2:17 - Comfort your Hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work,

2 Thessalonians 3:5 - And the Lord Direct your Heart into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ,

For with the Heart man believeth - Romans 10:10 - ( Is it not God: that has to Change the heart of man, So he can truly Believe ? )
---RICHARDC on 8/23/13


"Elder, did you REJECT the Gospel message over and over, and then one day believe it?"
kathr4453
Kathr. Indeed I did. I remember hearing the Gospel at age 6. God called me to preach the Gospel back then. I rejected with a vengeance.
My rejection lasted many years.
I was in the military when the Lord let me know that I would not get home alive if I didn't choose Him and give my life to Him. I was less than 90 miles for home.
I then asked Him to save me and I confessed my sin of rejection.
Mark says one thing, then changes it and twists and distorts other things.
Then he claims you and I are wrong... what a joke. Then his spiritual definitions come from a secular dictionary. Ha, ha.
---Elder on 8/23/13


RICHARDC,

John 6:29 "The work of God is this. They had spoken of works. Christ reminds them of one work, that is, faith, by which he means that all that men undertake without faith is vain and useless, but that faith alone is sufficient, because this alone does God require from us, that we believe. .... Those who infer from this passage that faith is the gift of God are mistaken, for Christ does not now show what God produces in us, but what he wishes and requires from us."

Commentary on John - Volume 1
by
John Calvin, 1509-1564

Search:
ccel/calvin/comment3/comm_vol34
---Nana on 8/23/13


Nana - A Follow up from a previous blog, the Blog ran out - Belief come from God, Not from man - How do you get pass that ?

Hebrews 11: 1 - Now faith is the substance of thing hoped for, the evidence of things not see,

( Is this Not Belief ? )

John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said , This is the Work of God that ye Believe on him Whom he hath sent,

( The reason man Believes is because of God, That's his Work - that's were it Comes from, )

Ephesian 2:8 - For by Grace are ye Saved , through faith not of yourselves, It is a gift of God,
Ephesians 2:9 - Not of Works , lest any man should Boast,

( Faith / Belief - Comes from God - Not Of Yourselves, )
---RICHARDC on 8/23/13


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Mark *when I begin my journey with the Lord,

Was that a choice you made or did God grab you by the hand?

Mark* it must make choices for no reason. Free from any desires are motives. That would be to make a spantanious choice.

Don't you make choices everyday?


Mark* We always make choices for a reason. God judges our motives and reasons for making a choice.

yes, finally, freewill!


Mark* If we made a free will choice, it would be spantanious, and God could not judge us right or wrong.

What, You just say he judges us.

Mark *. Believers have a reason, they follow their Father God.

Believe means you had to believe in God, that is a choice!
---Ruben on 8/23/13


Romans 10:13_16 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"

Therefore I agree with Mark Eaton's stance.
---Nana on 8/23/13


John 10: 27-28 - My Sheep hear my voice, And Follow me, And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand,

John 6:39 - And this is the Father will which hath sent me, That of All which he hath given me , I should lose nothing but should raise it up at the last day.

( All that the Father gives Follow - and Christ loses none ! )
---RICHARDC on 8/23/13


What most people teach is that man seeks after God out of his own free will, which is not possible.
---Mark_V. on 8/23/13

I have never heard this taught. The Scriptures are explicit, the Father draws us, we are sought after, chased after, purchased, bought, redeemed before we accept His free gift.

But this is truly different than making a decision to accept the gift. God offers this gift to all. Jesus may have shed His blood for the "many" but God offers the free gift to the entire world. It is only the "many" that choose to accept it.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/23/13


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Lidia4796 on 8/20/13

(concerning Lydia): "Trusted fully in Jesus Christ no hesitation.."
God is sovereign God, He does NOT need our Permission for Nothing, He is and was ... alpha and Omega...

we can't even breathe if He does not allow"
Blessings Lidia. Love this
True, we cant even breathe if he doesnt allow. We cannot live (in any and every sense of the word) without Him
Some great verses too
---chria9396 on 8/23/13


He also stated on this blog that lost people could choose and now he denies that they can.
---Elder on 8/22/13

Thank you. He did state that and I also pointed it out.

What I find disturbing, is that I missed this statement of his to you..."For in order for a person to choose Christ he has to be a believer already".

I cannot accept this statement.

My definition of a believer is one who has chosen Christ and now is following Him.

I do understand how we can become confused. But, we must go back to the character of God. If God is love, all love, God would offer His greatest gift to all people, not a selected few. To do anything less is favoritism.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/23/13


Titus 3:5 - Not by works of Righteousness which we have done but according to his mercy he saved us by washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
---RICHARDC on 8/23/13


Look mark, your initial question about God's rights to do what is not listed specifically

BUT: I will take it that God has the right (as He showed in Sodom and in the flood) to do what He wants

HOWEVER: God has also decided to wait in the case of most people until the last judgement before condemning anyone

And your comment about satan 'defeating' anything I woulld disagree. The reason is as follows:

God cannot be limited by time, so God sees all time equially, past present and future (God cannot be just waiting to see what happens next - for God as I see it must see past present and future equally)

So: when God created man, God knew man would fall, and so a term like defeated does not apply
---Peter on 8/22/13


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Mark E. when I begin my journey with the Lord, I heard the words free will at my church. I was curious so I looked it up in Merriam Webster dictionary. In order for the will to be free, it must make choices for no reason. Free from any desires are motives. That would be to make a spantanious choice. We always make choices for a reason. God judges our motives and reasons for making a choice. If we made a free will choice, it would be spantanious, and God could not judge us right or wrong. The lost have a reason, they do the desires of their father the devil, they are in bondage to sin. Believers have a reason, they follow their Father God. They are slaves to God. If we had a free will, we would be autonomous, but Only God is Autonomous.
---Mark_V. on 8/23/13


Markv said: "While you were lost you rejected Christ " let's look at that.

NO ONE rejects Christ until they hear the Gospel first, and the GOSPEL truth is what is rejected.

Elder, did you REJECT the Gospel message over and over, and then one day believe it?

Markv.....get this straight, NO ONE, not even lost people have rejected the Gospel message over and over if they have never heard it. So stop twisting things.

How will they hear without a preacher? HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WH PREACH THE GOSPEL OF PEACE AND BRING THE GOOD NEWS TO THE LOST.

You have UGLY FEET Markv . Crippled, dirty, deformed ugly feet MarkV. How dare you condemn and slander the lost , and not obey God.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/13


The real truth is, it was MarkV who heard the Gospel Truth over and over denying Jesus over and over, joining one cult after another, over and over, believing CULTS over and over, all the while rejecting Jesus Christ in doing so. His whole family is in one cult or another. He just has that pre-disposition, that personality of being brainwashed.

He KNOWS some here have what he doesn't, and he can't stand it. So what does he do? He tries to destroy you and your relationship with The Lord, he doesn't have, but can't, so then he tries to destroy you. The SAME ENVY of those who crucified Jesus. Did you not read Markv, they killed Him FOR EVNY. Jealousy....and that same envy is all over and in you!
---kathr4453 on 8/23/13


Mark E 2: What most people teach is that man seeks after God out of his own free will, which is not possible.
"There is none who seek after God" (Rom. 3:11) Jesus does not wait to see if you seek Him, "For the Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" The parable of the lost sheep, The Shepherd left the 99 to seek and save the one who was lost. The Son does not fail, there is no possible room for any failure in His mission. The lost have a reason why they don't choose Christ, they have no desire for Him. That is why we are told in Eph. 2:1,2) that God made us alive while we were dead in trespasses and sins. The lost are lost competely. They have no desire for Christ and never will.
---Mark_V. on 8/23/13


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God is sovereign!

Isa46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Da4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Eph1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
---trey on 8/22/13


Here is what you said Mark,
"When you were lost you had a choice, yet you denied Him all the time, why did you do that?"
Mark_V. on 8/21/13
Did you tell the truth then or now? You can't have it both ways.
Then you are nutty enough to accuse me of teaching a false gospel.
You spin any way the wind blows and I am not the only one who sees that.
Blow again wind...
---Elder on 8/22/13


Mark Eaton, the poster (the other Mark) came up with his definition from a Webster's dictionary. Please realize that he left out part of it though. That is because it takes away from his lame attempt to cause people to believe some partial truth and promote his misguided position.
He also stated on this blog that lost people could choose and now he denies that they can. He tries to explain spiritual truths with worldly concepts such as Webster.
---Elder on 8/22/13


Like many of the other Reformers, Calvin was deeply influenced by Augustines philosophical approach to the interpretation of Scripture. Calvin was one of the most systematic in developing the implications of predestination in the terms of the philosophy of his era. He also followed Augustines example in aspiring to develop a comprehensive Christian worldview that encompassed church and government within one rational system. At the young age of 28, he attempted to set up a government in Geneva involving unprecedented supervision of the private lives of its citizens.

This is NOT how the Holy Spirit works, teaches etc, nor is it Christianity at all.

Warning!!!
---kathr4453 on 8/22/13


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A dictionary defines free will as: 1. ... 2.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/13

Thank you.

As I have said before, I know little of doctrines such as these. I have never gone to seminary and know little of theology. My assumption was are speaking of definition #1, voluntary choice. My mistake.

However, since philosophy is to be considered (rather avoided), let me pontificate about definition #2. No choice or decision a human being makes can be devoid of physical, emotional, spiritual, or moral influences. The process of making a decision is to bring all known facts and influences into consideration and make a choice, either logically or not. Therefore, definition #2 is a non sequitur, or nonsensical.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/13


I would say PHILOSOPHY is not a definition, but what some person imagines what something means. Philosophy is that of free thinkers, and is subject to that individual thinker.

However scripture is not philosophy, nor is God DEPENDENT upon a MAN's philosophical understanding of anything.

The problem with those without FAITH is they lean to and learn from philosophers for understanding.

We are clearly warned AGAINST philosophy and vain deceit.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/13


Mark_Eaton:

You said: Where did you get this definition? Did you make this up? ... But I doubt that this is THE definition of free will.

We are speaking English here, so when one uses common English words and phrases, it is most useful to treat words as if they have the same meanings that English-speaking people usually assign to them (e.g. as exemplified by a dictionary).

A dictionary defines free will as:
1. free and independent choice, voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
2. Philosophy . the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.


This sounds much like what Mark_V. said.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/13


"But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life" (Rom. 6:22). ------Mark_V. on 8/22/13
MarkV, you do not understand Romans 6 whatsoever. Paul is talking to those NOW SAVED. He's talking about SIN and how NOW that you are saved, you have NO EXCUSE to sin, since the CROSS, (that is your identification with being baptized into Christ's death and raised up a New Creature) is what set you free from the power of SIN in your life. Also refer to 1st Peter 4:1. Peter here too is addressing those already saved, and what the purpose of SUFFERING results in. So you are saying YOU SUFFERED FIRST to be set free from sin so you could believe...HOGWASH.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/13


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the definition of free will is: The freedom of human to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13

Where did you get this definition? Did you make this up?

If this is THE definition of free will then I definitely do not agree with free will. But I doubt that this is THE definition of free will.

My option is that most of the people blogging here about free will do NOT agree with this definition. Remove the "determined by prior causes or by divine intervention" and you have have my opinion on free will. We are free to make decisions and no more.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/13


Elder, for your information, free willers and I do not say the same thing. Free willers suggest that while lost they can choose Christ, I say they cannot. I give Scripture to proof they cannot. I give proof they don't have free will. God's Word convicts you. You have been teaching a false gospel for years, that unbelievers have the ability to choose Christ while dead in sin, and carnal. You give the glory to man and not God. For in order for a person to choose Christ he has to be a believer already, with faith and that faith comes from God. Unbelievers do not seek after God, they are in bondage to sin and need to be set free, and only God can set them free when He draws them to Himself and make them spiritually alive together with Christ.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13


On 8/21 Mark has said just what, he calls freewillers, have been saying all along.
He has condemned and called them names.
I just wonder what he will say now that he claims the same thing others have said about people denying/refusing Christ.
---Elder on 8/21/13


Mark E. people make choices everyday and God judges them by the motives behind their choices. The lost cannot make a choice for Christ, they are slaves to sin. Rom. 6:20) "For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness" The lost are condemned, in prison, he is free to make choices in prison, but not free to make choices outside of prison. The lost need to be set free in order for them to make a choice for Christ "But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life" (Rom. 6:22). No one's will is free. We always make choices for a reason. We don't make spontaneous choices for no reason, that is free will.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13


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Mark E 2: the definition of free will is,
The freedom of human to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention" But those who are lost have a cause, they do not have free will. We are told that the lost do not seek after God. (Rom. 3:11). They are free in regard to righteousness, but slaves in regards to unrightreousness. As believers they are now slaves of God. God had to draw them to Himself to set them free and give them a new beginning. He made them alive together with Christ, when they were dead in trespasses and sins and as believers they are now able to make a choice for Christ because God has given them faith to believe, because only believers have faith and seek after God.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13


//Very few here believe that God has a right to do what wills with His creation. The others say God is restricted by sinful man. Or that the devil is defeating His purpose, what says you? //

Haven't seen anyone except maybe atheist make such a claim.
---char on 8/21/13


markv, you just posted that someone is free to reject or receive. you have preached that we don't have free will. what is going on here with you?
---shira4368 on 8/21/13


When you were lost you had a choice, yet you denied Him all the time, why did you do that?
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13

My point exactly. Denying Jesus is a choice made by people which God can rightly judge.

However, if you say that I had a choice in denying Jesus, why do you turn around and say that I do not have a choice in accepting Jesus? Are not denying/accepting the different sides of the same coin?

John 1:12 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name"
---Mark_Eaton on 8/21/13


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Mark E, you give:
"Matt 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" nothing wrong with that passage. Whoever denies Christ before men, Christ will also deny him. Millions deny Him before men, Jesus denies all of them. Why? Because they never believed in Him by faith. You say

"How can I deny Jesus before men if it is not my choice?" When you were lost you had a choice, yet you denied Him all the time, why did you do that? You had no faith in Him. Then you say where is the logic and justice? What logic and justice? Every descendant of Adam is condemned already. They have no rights or appeals like jury's of man. They are guilty already.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13


Mark E 2: They are condemned already because of God's curse, yet God finds them guilty for another reason, Why? Because what might be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. His eternal power and Godhead are understood by the things that are made, so they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor even thankful. For we are told that none seek after God. That is why God finds them guilty. They had a choice alright, but had no faith in the Lord. No unbeliever has that faith. Another reason they are condemned. And faith in Christ comes from God. And as we know not everyone has faith.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13


My scriptures - Jer.10:12, Is.40:18a
vs.22,25,26
Ps.62:11, Jer.32:17, Heb.1:1a vs.2
Acts.17:29, Rev.12:11,Eph.6:10, Col.1:12,13
Heb.2:14, Eph.2:6, Mt.28:18
---Lidia4796 on 8/20/13


Thankyou,you
Know name me self Lidia smile, seriously, reading up on the sister Lidia get to my point she was a very devout, spiritual sister, she was without any restriction, complete "blind " faith she
Trusted fully in Jesus Christ no hesitation..
Bro.Mark ( all respect) God is sovereign God, He does NOT need our Permission for Nothing, He is and was ... alpha and Omega...

we can't even breathe if He does not allow.

I will return with my scriptures.. in Jesus I am happy evermore..
Lidia4796

---Lidia4796 on 8/20/13


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Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the ... all the earth,

God never took this dominion that he gave to man back.

Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ... Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands, thou hast put all things under his feet:

Once Adam sinned, Adam gave dominion over to Satan

That is why we pray to the Father for the Power to work through us, and to do things in our lives

Through His life, death, and resurrection, and his total victory over Satan, Christ regained that dominion. Thus we pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ for his will to be done in our lives
---francis on 8/20/13


on - 8/19/13 - He uses Free will to bring about his plan ?

Matthew 15:13 - But he answers and said Every plant which my heavenly father has not planted shall be rooted up,
Matthew 15:14 - Let them alone: they are blind, And if blind lead the blind, Both fall into the ditch
---RichardC on 8/19/13



---Scott1 on 8/19/13
well said
we must at all time let our will, be his will
---francis on 8/19/13


//"For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."// christian.

I agree that God used the events to bring about salvation. However, that is only half of the thought processes going on during that event. Why did the Jews want to murder Jesus? Because he claim to be God and because he had authority over them. See the parable Matthew 21. Freewill explains our accountablilty (as you have said) but in the soverignity of God, He uses our free will to bring about his plan. See also the 12 spies sent into Israel. See Deut. 1:22 and Numbers 13:1. The people chose to send in spies and the Lord let them do it to disaster of 40 years in the desert.
---Scott1 on 8/19/13


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they answer opposing who God really is in order to believe their own theology.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13

However, you and Christan resist the implicit meaning in this verse.

Matt 10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven"

How can I deny Jesus before men if it is not my choice? If God has chosen that I am not to be called as an elect of His, what I am doing is EXPECTED by Him, rather it is guaranteed by Him. Where is the sense, logic, or justice in this?

No, the justice becomes evident when you add the word "choose" into the verse. When a man chooses to deny Jesus before others, then Jesus chooses to deny you before His Father.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/19/13


When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, this "dominion over God's creation" did not come to past.
---christan on 8/17/13
Actually it went to Satan, and not to God
---francis on 8/19/13


Yet God will hold them ACCOUNTABLE!
---christan on 8/16/13

Accountable for what. As you have said we do not have a choice.
---Scott1 on 8/19/13


Bro. Christan, very good points you made.
I believe what happens many times is that believers never study the Sovereignty of God. Who God really is, His attributes, and character, so when they answer passages, they answer opposing who God really is in order to believe their own theology. Heathens outside of Christianity build and worship gods out of wood and stone, while millions of heathens inside Christianity manufacture a "god" out of their own carnal minds. Which in reality they are atheists, for there is no other possible alternative between an absolutely supreme God, and no God at all. A god who is not only restricted, but resisted, whose designs are frustrated, whose purpose is checkmated, who possesses no title of Deity.
---Mark_V. on 8/19/13


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Brother MarkV, if I may say so, many forget that when God said in Genesis 1:26, "...let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth", you will notice it was said before the fall, way before God even created the man from the dust.

When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, this "dominion over God's creation" did not come to past. After the fall, not only the man suffered the curse from God, so too did all His creation. Even the living creatures God created dies on the account of the man's disobedience. Does God have the right to do this? You can be assured, He does!
---christan on 8/17/13


God is not restricted by anything. The word he gave us is more than enough. "Romans 8:11" The same spirit that raised Jesus from the die lives in Me. For You I don't know if that is the part of the bible you believe or not. "Mark 4" some BELIEVERS will only believe about 20% some maybe 60%
---Bryan on 8/17/13


Marc_V.:

You said: God gave dominion to man, He didn't give them dominion over God. How can that thought enter your mind

God did NOT give man blanket dominion over everything. He gave man dominion over the EARTH only (and some have argued that trips to the moon even violate that). Everything else (e.g. heaven and hell, for example) are still totally under God's control.
---StrongAxe on 8/17/13


I say man has free will to choose or reject God

ns 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
---francis on 8/17/13


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My friend and I are reading through Revelation. Each time something happens, that starts from God, Heaven is silent, or Heaven's door is open, or an angel comes from Heaven > it starts from Heaven, I can see > ones on this earth do not decide.

"He doesn't need a right. He already is in absolute and perfect control > that's His destiny."
---willie_c: on 8/17/13


God gave man dominion. That is why we PRAY to ask that God's will be done in our lives. God cannot interfere in our lives unless we ask." Posted by francis a few days ago

when God gave dominion to man, He didn't give them dominion over God. How can that thought enter your mind?
---Mark_V. on 8/17/13

WOW, now I understand why you have such garbage doctrines
You see things that are not there
you read words not printed
---francis on 8/17/13


Of course God has every right to do as He wants.

He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth, Daniel 4:35
Also, Psalm 135:6, Psalm 115:3

The devil cannot defeat Gods purpose, rather God uses even the devil as He wills, working all things for His purpose

God may allow what ever He chooses, according to His will/purpose, and who are we to think we know best? He may allow whatever choice(s), but as in all things, He is ultimately in control
---Chria9396 on 8/17/13


Judges 17:6 In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes.

2 Kings 12:2 And Jehoash did [that which was] right in the sight of the LORD all his days wherein Jehoiada the priest instructed him.

FREE WILL REIGNS IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD
We are free to do what is right in our own eyes, or free to do what is right in the sight of God
---francis on 8/17/13


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Mark_V.:

God can do whatever he wants with his creation. However, he seems to have voluntarily chosen to cede some of his sovereignty to others. For example, Satan is called "The god of this world", something he could not do without God's permission. Also, we have free will, which we could not have unless God chose to give it to us. He could treat us like puppets on a string, but he doesn't.
---StrongAxe on 8/17/13


francis, you said:
"God gave man dominion. That si why we PRAY to ask that God's will be done in our lives. God cannot interfere in our lives unless we ask."
when God gave dominion to man, He didn't give them dominion over God. How can that thought enter your mind?
If you disobey God, you will face the consequences, because you do not have freedom from God. We are to ask God only because He wants us to be depended upon Him. You are preaching "free will" independence from God. And you preach the law on all other blogs. You rights do not cancel God's rights. You are a sinner, and God is God, and never stops been God.
---Mark_V. on 8/17/13


"Freewill means you are responsible for your choice to accept or not to accept God's grace." Scott1

Really? You might want to change your mind (by your freewill) after you read this, "For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27,28

Does Scripture says they acted out of their freewill? Don't say what it doesn't say, for it explicitly declares, "For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done."

Yet God will hold them ACCOUNTABLE!
---christan on 8/16/13


God is GOd, therefore he can do whatever he desires. He doesn't need our help doing so.
---Candice on 8/16/13


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Very few here believe that God has a right to do what wills with His creation.
---Mark_V. on 8/16/13
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth

God gave man dominion. That si why we PRAY to ask that God's will be done in our lives. God cannot interfere in our lives unless we ask.

He gave dominion to man, and there is no indication that he has taken it back
So God is not able to save man unless man asks to be saved.

In giving dominion he also reminded man that the wages of Sin is death
---francis on 8/16/13


\\Everyone, I am sorry if you have lost a child but I needed a dramatic event to make a point.\\

As long as Jesus tarries, death is inevitable for all us, regardless of our age.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/13


I'm not too sure what you're getting at here. Can you elaborate?

Any limitations God has are those He has imposed upon Himself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/13


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