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Has The Law Changed

Jesus said that the LAW will not change while heaven and earth shall last (Matthew 5:18). Paul said that we are not under the LAW (Roman 6:14). Are they talking about the same LAW? And if so, who should we believe?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/19/13
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Barb: Are you saying Luke was wrong in mentioning that Christ spoke to one thief and told him he'd go to heaven.

If you examine the parallels of the Gospels, you'd see that each mentioned events the others don't. Just because John doesn't mention something that he witnessed at the crucifixion doesn't mean it didn't happen.
---Grandma on 8/25/13


Barb. Now you are throwing out Luke along with Paul. What other inconvenient parts of the bible will you discard.

Luke's account of the salvation of the thief on the cross is consistent with what Jesus said in John 3:16. Are you going to discard Jesus as well?

This salvation by works doctrine you follow discards any truth in the bible that contradicts it. I think you'll find most here would agee that the doctrine you follow is false.
---Haz27 on 8/25/13


Jerry.Yes, the law is written on our heart.
We show the work of the law written on our heats, Rom 2:15.
Our inward man (Christ) delights after the spiritual law, Rom 7:22.

You quoted Jesus, "sin no more". And we see this confirmed in 1John 3:9 we "CANNOT sin", and 1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin".
ONLY PAST sin was remitted at the cross, Rom 3:25.
Afterwards there is NO MORE offering for sin, Heb 10:18.

So Jerry, why do you remain under the law for righteousness? In this you make yourself a transgressor/Sinner (Gal 2:18).

As you admit you still sin/transgress the law, are you saying you don't have the law in your heart? Are you disobeying Jesus who said "sin no more"?
---Haz27 on 8/25/13


---barb on 8/25/13
YIKES So you do not believe the book of mark, luke, Jude or Acts.


---Haz27 on 8/25/13
I do not have to assume anything

How do you know what he did before that sin of theft?
how do you know for sure that he was not baptized by John or by Jesus' disciples?

This thief was the one single person who knew the passion of Jesus, that Jesus would die, rise again, and inherit a kingdom, and that Jesus had the power to allow this man into His kingdom
Do you think her learned that while on the cross?
---francis on 8/26/13


barb, the Word of God (Holy Bible) is Jesus Christ. It was Christ who declared that He is "the Way, the Truth and Life". In other words, there's no "contradiction and confusion" to be found in the Holy Bible! To say there is, the word "Holy" would be redundant.

To know the difference between truth and lies, God create people like you to lie about His Word. Afterall, God declared, "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right." Isaiah 45:19 - so what "contradiction and confusion" are you speaking of?

The Holy Bible is ALL TRUTH!
---christan on 8/26/13





Obviously to match you male cow scat theology
---francis on 8/23/13

You do the work of your master. Yourself.
I can't remember if you are a woman or a man. Your postings are like a young girl so I'll keep mine out of the barnyard and in scripture.

You not being an Apostle feel free to disobey and distort scripture.
The apostles fearful of GOD faithfully executed the command of their lord.
Here is one and explaination.

Mat_10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat_15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

They didn't fail, where you must being diametrically opposed to them.
---Trav on 8/26/13


Francis: On the other blog, you did not include the rest of the passage. As usual, you cherry pick individual verses to try to prove your case.
You are definitely a false teacher, as described in Jude.
---Grandma on 8/24/13

Well he/she has to. The universalist/cath-olic/one world gov's are discouraged from reading scripture for themselves. Scripture that doesn't fit a theory needs whittled . Or ignored....when it is not understood. Found more commonly amongst preachers. In this is the way ignorance/frustration is multiplied by generations.
Francis has the zeal...but, has never asked the only teacher to guide/open/lead.
Mat_23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren.
---Trav on 8/26/13


Haz, Francis, you won't find the story of the thief on the cross anywhere except in Luke's gospel. Was Luke there when Jesus was crucified? Was Paul there? John was there and he mentions the thieves but says nothing about Jesus talking to and saving one of them, neither does Mark mention it. Matthew tells us that both thieves mocked Jesus right along with the chief priests, scribes and elders. You can believe what you want but I'm going with the eyewitness account that John would surely have shared with Matthew and the others.
---barb on 8/25/13


Gary, God allowed contradiction and confusion in the bible so that we could see the difference between Truth and Lies. That is what the parable of the wheat and tares is all about. Jesus is the sower of the Truth (wheat) and Satan is the sower of the lies (tares). Matthew 13:37-43.

God allowed the serpent into the Garden of Eden and He allows lies to grow right along with the wheat until Havest Time. The only ones who recognize that they are tares are His servants. Matt 13:24-30.

Is everything in the bible the Truth? Jeremiah 8:8-9.

---barb on 8/25/13


Francis. The THIEF on the, cross and scripture both contradict SDA doctrine. Yet you assume the thief had prior salvation with works of the law to confirm it, just so that it might appear to offer some sort of possible justification to SDA doctrine.
SDA doctrine is clearly error.

Jerry. Jesus said "sin no more" BUT you continue to sin regardless. Why?
Didn't Christ's blood cleanse you enough?

But Rom 8:33 says that Christians cannot be charged.

We're not under the law, so cannot be charged with it's transgression/sin.
Our faith is counted for righteousness, so we cannot be charged with unrighteousness/sin.

We "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9), we've "CEASED from sin" (1Pet 4:1).
---Haz27 on 8/25/13




Sabbath says "do no work on Sunday"
---Scott1 on 8/25/13
Lets see what the NWT actually says
Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work

When did Sunday become the 7th day?
---francis on 8/25/13


Isn't salvation by grace 100%? Paul explicitly emphasised, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6

Works mongers than say the thief while hanging on the cross next to Christ could have done good works before he died. Really? How? Prior to his execution, Scripture even tells us, BOTH of them were mocking Christ, "The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth." Matthew 44

You see, the thief's salvation was a classic case of saved by grace 100%. He had no works to show except that he repented and believed Christ just before he died.
---christan on 8/25/13


God is not the author of confusion.

If you believe one part of the Bible contradicts another part, then it is your own interpretation that must be in error. If you believe the teachings of Paul contradicts the teachings of Jesus, there is a problem. Either the Bible contains a bunch of conflicting and confusing scriptures, OR your interpretation of the scriptures is not correct.

I find no conflict between the teachings of Paul and that of Jesus.

Would God give us a Bible full of contradition and confusion?
---Gary on 8/25/13


Christians have a misunderstanding of the Law. It is not a robotic series of events or a restriction it is a way you do life, to be a peculiar people Duet. For example, Sabbath says "do no work on Sunday" but in true practice (not what the Pharisees made it to be) people made twice as much food the day before to have food on sabbath. Another example, you celebrate a family holiday with your family. However, if you were to write as a law it would say, 'Do not go hangout with friends on family holiday.' Do you see the difference in action it is what you do, in written form it sounds restrictive. This is what makes us want to break it see Romans Ch 3,4. To this Jesus said Love God and another is the basis of the Law.
---Scott1 on 8/25/13


Barb. The THIEF on the cross believed in Jesus. He had NO WORKS of the law whatsoever.
---Haz27 on 8/24/13
How do you know that?
How do you know what he did before that sin of theft?
how do you know for sure that he was not baptized by John or by Jesus' disciples?

Notice that the thief admitted that he was guilty of sin, and while all teh disciple sran away doubting that Jesus was the messiah, this one thief knew that Jesus would die, and rise again and inherit a kingdom, and that Jesus had the power to save him eternally

This thief was the one single person who knew the passion of Jesus
---francis on 8/25/13


Haz: "Just as Jesus said, we now sin no more."

What? Do you now claim that YOU are sinless? And just where did Jesus say that you are sinless? He commanded you not to sin, but you claim to sin with impunity. You continue to assert that Paul's confusing texts overturn Christ's straightforward commandments. Well did Peter speak of you when he said:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.



---jerry6593 on 8/25/13


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Haz: A question for you. The LAW placed in the heart under the New Covenant - first mentioned by Jeremiah and quoted by Paul in Hebrews with no change in content discussed - Do you have THAT LAW in your heart?






---jerry6593 on 8/25/13


barb, you said,
" Jesus taught that keeping the commandments was the way to eternal life. Matt 19:17"
A person can be saved if he can keep the commandments of God perfectly. But no one can keep the commandments of God without Christ perfect works. There's no salvation under the Law. The Law saves no one. Jesus wanted to impress on the young man both the high standard required by God and the absolute futility of seeking salvation by his own merits. Jesus words should have elicited a response about the impossibility of keeping the law perfectly. You too can enter into eternal life if you can keep the commandments of God perfectly. You will not need the perfect works of Christ to enter heaven.
---Mark_V. on 8/25/13


---barb on 8/24/13
Paul does not call the ten commandments the ministration of death

1: these are the same commandments that God has written in our hearts 2 Cor 3:3 written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2: Here is the key to understanding the passage
2 Cor 3:7 was glorious,... the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance, which glory was to be done away:

The Tables of stone did not shine, it was Moses face that shine, the ten commandments did not pass away, but the shine that was in Moses face did.

Paul is not refering to the ten commandments, but THE OCCASION when Moses came down the mountain with the ten commandments
---francis on 8/24/13


Jerry. You quote Jesus "go and sin no more" yet you yourself admit YOU STILL SIN.

You asked why is the law trumped by Paul saying we're not under the law.

Righteousness is attained by either of the 2 methods below.
1: Works of the law
2: Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.

For Christians, method 2 is how we became righteous. That means we cannot be charged (Rom 8:33) with sin of transgression of the law as we're NOT under the law for righteousness.
We cannot be charged with sin of unrighteousness (1John 5:17), as our faith is counted for righteousness.

Just as Jesus said, we now sin no more.

But for the legalists, the law still applies. They're judged by it, Rev 20:12.
---Haz27 on 8/24/13


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2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

What paul is saying here is that if the OCCASION of the giving fo the law, ( ten commandments and sanctuary) was glorious, how much more glorious is the giving fo the spirit of God which writes the law of God ( THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) on our hearts which will never pass away

The ten commandments was not done away with, but the glory that was reflected in Moses face, has been done away with
---francis on 8/24/13


Barb. The THIEF on the cross believed in Jesus. He had NO WORKS of the law whatsoever.

The THIEF on the cross was God's example to legalists, that we're saved by grace and NOT works of the law.

God does not even accept a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law (Rev 3:15,16). It's either grace OR works (Rom 11:6). You CANNOT mix them together, as you try to do.

If you want an example of the difference between believing in Jesus and unbelief, note below.

A believer: The THIEF on the cross. He believed in Jesus, just as Jesus said in John 3:16.

A NON-believer: Professing Christians who are really legalists mixing grace with works of the law.

Barb, repent of your dead works. Believe in Jesus, instead.
---Haz27 on 8/24/13


Jerry. You said "You can't have it both ways".
But that is exactly what SDA's do!

SDA doctrine is a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law. They have it both ways.

God spews out the lukewarm (Rev 3:15,16) who have it both ways, mixing grace with works of the law. You CANNOT mix grace with works(Rom 11:6).

James 3:11 likewise asks: "Does a fountain send forth from the same place sweet water (Grace) and bitter (judgement/condemnation under the law)?

Christians are ONE SPIRIT with the Lord, 1Cor 6:17. Therefore for SDA's to have it both ways by also fornicating with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24), they're then sinning against their own body, 1Cor 6:18.
---Haz27 on 8/24/13


The 66-books of the Holy Bible is NEVER IN CONFLICT. It's the darkened hearts of man that has a problem with what's written in the Scriptures.

When Christ spoke, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Fulfilled He did and that's because, "For the wages of sin is death" and when He died at Calvary, that fulfillment was "finished".

When Christ died, it was not to justify Himself but His death "saved His people from their sins" to which we are told, "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord".

The grace and love of God was demonstrated in Christ's death.
---christan on 8/24/13


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Francis: On the other blog, on 8/22/13, you added parentheses to Galatians 2:17. Plus, you did not include the rest of the passage. As usual, you cherry pick individual verses to try to prove your case.

You are definitely a false teacher, as described in Jude.
---Grandma on 8/24/13


I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. The scriptures cannot contradict themselves.

Therefore, those who believe the teachings of Paul contradict the teachings of Jesus must believe the Bible is NOT the inspired Word of God. How could it be if Paul's teachings contradict Jesus? Therefore, how can you rely on ANY of the scriptures if they are in error?

You either believe the scriptures OR you don't be the scriptures.
---Gary on 8/24/13


"But if the minstration of death, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES, was glorius so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance, which glory was to be done away, how shall not the minstration of the spirit be rather glorius." 2nd Cor 3:7-8. There can be no doubt that Paul is talking about the ten commandments, he even says "tables of stone" in verse 3 and then talks about the shining glory of the face of Moses after coming down from the mountain.

Paul calls the commandments the "ministration of death, written and engraved in stones". Jesus taught that keeping the commandments was the way to eternal life. Matt 19:17.
---barb on 8/24/13


Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Psalms 138:2 for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Most of you need to have a heart to heart talk with your pastors concerning the law of God. You must ask why are they teaching you not to keep all the ten commandments
---francis on 8/24/13


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Haz: "Paul does not contradict Jesus."

I agree. But why then do you insist that Jesus' own statement that He did not come to destroy the law and that it would remain unchanged while heaven and earth remain is trumped by Paul's statement that we are no longer under the law? You can't have it both ways. Either Jesus and Paul are in conflict, or they were not talking about the same "LAW". Only the latter explanation is consistent with logic and the body of the entire Bible. What is so hard to understand about "go and sin no more" (John 8:11)?



---jerry6593 on 8/24/13


Haz, where does Jesus confirm this "Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law"?

What does "believe in God" mean to you? Does it mean to believe that He exists or does it mean to live and walk in the Light that He sent into the world? John 3:18-21. We can believe until we are blue in the face but if we do not obey and practice the Truth, we are only fooling ourselves into believing we are walking in the Light when we are stumbling around in the dark.
---barb on 8/24/13


"All written after Paul wrote his lawless books." barb

" Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake."
Acts 9:13-16

You say you only believe in Christ's testimony? "Put your money where your mouth is" or you're just a hypocrite.
---christan on 8/23/13


The Ethiopian is obviously of Israel.
---Trav on 8/23/13
Obviously to match you male cow scat theology

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius:
he was of Israel too maybe he was second cousin to the Ethiopian treasure
Yes they were, in fact they got together has some fizzy bubbler, and some hummus

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
all Israel also

Acts 2:10 even the proselytes were of Israel, they were just lost, maybe converted to and then back to Judaisn
---francis on 8/23/13


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Barb: Paul's Epistles do not contradict Jesus at all.
---Grandma on 8/23/13


Trav on 8/21/13
If the covenant is ONLY for israel, why is this guy going all the way to the temple in jeruscalem to worship Jehovah?
Acts 8:27,
---francis on 8/22/13

---Trav on 8/21/13
Your theology is bunkers.

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself...
---francis on 8/21/13

There are Seven different kinds of strangers in hebrew. I have cousins who are strangers because I've never met them.

The Ethiopian is obviously of Israel. It describes his place of captivity or residence not his ethnicity.

You jump before you research. You've also got a nasty retort to things you are very ignorant of. Makes you look foolish. But I've accepted it.
---Trav on 8/23/13


barb, it's disappointing that you reject God's word.

Paul does not contradict Jesus. I suspect you might follow a similar doctrine of fornication like Francis does.

Jesus confirms what Paul said.
Our works are to BELIEVE IN JESUS, John 6:29.
God's will is that we BELIEVE IN JESUS, John 6:40.

Why do you deny what Jesus tells us?
---Haz27 on 8/23/13


We should believe the One who paid our death penalty and that was not Paul.

Matt 5:18, Matt 19:17, Matt 22:36-40, John 14:21, Rev. 3:21, Rev 12:17, Rev. 14:12 and Rev. 22:12. All written after Paul wrote his lawless books. The words of Jesus Christ trump Paul's. Jesus told us the truth but no one wants to hear it. John 8:45-47.

"And behold, I come quickly and my reward is with me to give to every man according to his work." Rev. 22:12.
---barb on 8/23/13


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"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:28, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16

"Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:9,10

Duuuhhhhh........
---christan on 8/23/13


Scripture NEVER teaches justification by faith and works BUT ONLY FAITH!
---christan on 8/22/13
what scriptures are you reading?

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
---francis on 8/23/13


Does anyone else believe that we are living in the Kingdom of God Age and not the Law Age?

Mt12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Mr1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
---trey on 8/22/13


Francis. It appears that you're drunk with the wine of fornication (Rev 17:1,2) with Hagar (righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).

You quote scripture about faith, but twist them to mean works of the law for righteousness (which is unbelief in Jesus).

What works does James 2 refer to?
Jesus tells us in John 6:29. Our works are to BELIEVE IN JESUS.

And what about your doctrine of works of the law you always contract scripture with?
Gal 3:12
"Yet the law is NOT OF FAITH, but the man who does them shall live by them."

Francis. For your own sake, you need to purge out the old leaven (Matt 16:12, Pharisee/SDA type doctrine of righteousness by works of the law), 1Cor 5:7.
---Haz27 on 8/22/13


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Grandma, you're talking to a works monger or as Christ will say on Judgement Day, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

These work mongers who believe in one being justified by works together with faith do not even realise it's unscriptural. Scripture NEVER teaches justification by faith and works BUT ONLY FAITH!

The works James mentioned in his epistles is confirmation of Ephesians 2:10, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

These mongers go in search of good works to do, when it clearly says it's been already prepared by God for the elect.
---christan on 8/22/13


Hebrews 11:6 But without FAITH it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law

Your doctrine in half baked
---francis on 8/22/13


Francis: please explain Hebrews 11:6.
---Grandma on 8/22/13


back to theblog question
Matthew 5:18 assures us that Jesus did not come to change the law.
Daniel 9:25-27 tells us that the 4th beast will TRY to change the laws of God

Does that mean anything at all in terms of who we are follwoing when we do not keep the laws of God?
---francis on 8/22/13


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Genesis 26:5 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Although there is a not a list in genesis like in Deuteronomy, God had laws which Abraham followed

one of them was the law of tithing

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
---francis on 8/22/13


Which is it? Follow God's perfect laws, OR follow what Abram did? Make up your mind.
---Gary on 8/21/13
No difference sis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

i told you you have a hole that needs to be plugged

God has always had laws
---francis on 8/22/13


Jerry. SDA's DON'T keep the law, as you yourself have admitted to. How can you then claim that Jesus is your example of keeping the law when you constantly FAIL to keep the law?

The drunkards who are drunk with the wine of fornication (Rev 17:1,2), refers to the likes of the legalists amongst the SDAs. They fornicate with Hagar/righteousness by works of the law (Gal 4:24). Such seek to establish their own righteousness instead of submitting to God's righteousness.

And why would you ask such a foolish question whether Jesus is fornicating?
The issue is about how is OUR righteousness attained. Is it works of the law (Hagar) OR is our faith counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5)?
---Haz27 on 8/22/13


2 Timothy 2:15 - "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - this speaks about tithing?

Since when "dividing the word of truth" is tithing? One would have thought that the "word of truth" was priceless and yet the SDA has turned this into tithing. Unbelievable!

"And Jesus said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." Luke 12:15
---christan on 8/22/13


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We believe Jesus who says the law won't change. And we believe Jesus who through Paul has given us how >

"Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor." (Galatians 3:24-25)

As Jesus has said, the law has not changed. It still is the tutor which can bring people to Christ, as Jesus has told us through Paul.

So, we believe Jesus and Paul through whom Jesus has been communicating.
---willie_c: on 8/22/13


---Gary on 8/21/13
there is a flaw in your theology. While it is not the purpose of the book of genesis
to point ot the law of God, all his laws are in there by example

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Abrahan did return a tithe to the King of Salem, but did not keep the rest of the spoils whoch belonged to the king of Sodom.
Keep in mind that Sodom was just one of many nations that had spoils taken from them.


Hebrews 7: 4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils
---francis on 8/22/13


God says this:
Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,


I do not try to find loopholes in the law of God.

I pray and thank God for his spirit, for Christ in me which strengthens my inner man.

There are no loopholes in the law of God. Looking for loopholes is that of the carnal mind "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7

as for Francis: I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Romans 7:22
---francis on 8/21/13


---francis on 8/21/13

Abram kept NOTHING for himself, and the tenth he gave wasn't even codified in the later law. God didn't want a tenth of the spoils as shown in Numbers 31.

Are you trying to say you believe you are following Abram's example of tithing? A ONE-TIME example, NOT from Abram's regular income (or "increase")? Furthermore, I thought the SDA say you are to follow God's laws, NOT something Abram did.

Which is it? Follow God's perfect laws, OR follow what Abram did? Make up your mind.
---Gary on 8/21/13


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Hmmm.... I wonder if the SDA are stoning their people in the presence of their congregation when they are caught lying or committing adultery or even in any of the laws of God? Isn't it set in stone by God, "For the wages of sin is death"?

Didn't James declare, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."?
---christan on 8/22/13


Jerry, you should believe God. The Laws of God are the same today. They are condemning the lost because they have broken them. They are condemned already for breaking them. As believers we are not under the condemnation of the law for Christ has kept the Law perfect for us.
You knew that already, but you are not on line to speak on behalf of Christ, you want to speak on behalf of the law. We know why, because you want to condemn all who don't do Saturday Sabbath. Nothing has changed since you started, it is the same smoke screen about the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/13


Haz: "Those who continue under the law are drunkards, "


Does that include Jesus? He kept the LAW perfectly. That's how He fulfilled it. He is our example. He said "If you love me, keep My Commandments." Do you love Him?

You illustrate the reason for this post. That is, for your theory to be correct, either Paul or Jesus must be lying. I don't believe that either one is lying, so you must of necessity have the wrong interpretation of which LAW Paul spoke of. Jesus clearly spoke of the Ten Commandment LAW in Mat 5, but Paul speaks of several laws, and the context (such as circumcision or meat offered to idols) must be considered to determine the one in question.



---jerry6593 on 8/22/13


---christan on 8/21/13
you are wrong. Tithing is in the NT. i will not show post it Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
And tithing was mentioned in the bible long before there was a temple.

Genesis 14:16 And he brought back ALL THE GOOD, and also brought again his brother Lot, and AND HIS GOODS, and the women also, and the people.

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him TITHES OF ALL.
---francis on 8/22/13


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--Gary on 8/21/13
Th every first passage on tithe in the bible, is NOT of agricultural produce, but of the spoils of war, Money, gold and jewels.

Genesis 14:16 And he brought back ALL THE GOOD, and also brought again his brother Lot, and AND HIS GOODS, and the women also, and the people.

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him TITHES OF ALL.

The second passage on tithe, does not specify agricultural products either

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of ALL THAT THOU SHALL GIVE ME I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
---francis on 8/21/13


The "law of tithing" was only peculiar to the Jews in the OT. It was a form of giving by the Jews to help support the Levite priests who were looking after the tabernacle of God in the Holy of Holies, who were performing sacrifices to God. It was their full-time job given to them by God.

No where in the NT is it even taught, let alone being practiced after Christ's resurrection. Neither the apostles who wrote the epistles even mentioned of such a practice. And that's because the temple worship was done away with. Paul explicitly declared,

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands" Acts 17:24
---christan on 8/21/13


Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the INCREASE of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
---francis on 8/21/13

Does that say YOUR increase? Does it say money? Does it say or infer your income? NO. It plainly says increase OF THY SEED, THAT THE FIELD BRINGETH FORTH YEAR BY YEAR.

Very simple. OF THY SEED. Use a Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning.
---Gary on 8/21/13


Jesus and Paul spoke of the same law.

As Josef showed in scripture, Christians are NOT under the law.

But those who remain under the law, they will be judged by it (Rev 20:12), found guilty of all of it (James 2:10) and cast into the lake of fire (Rev 2:15).

Those who continue under the law are drunkards, drunk with the wine of fornication (Rev 17:1,2) with Hagar/righteousness by deeds of the law (Gal 4:24).

Jerry, please leave the SDA's, purging out the old leaven (SDA type doctrine of righteousness by works of the law, Matt 16:12).

Jesus warned us to beware of the leaven (Matt 16).
Gal 5:9 also warns us that a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

Therefore purge out SDA doctrine (1Cor 5:7).
---Haz27 on 8/21/13


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The tithe was NOT 10% of YOUR increase.
---Gary on 8/21/13
LOL
Deuteronomy 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the INCREASE of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
---francis on 8/21/13


1: 10% of your increase to the Lefites for the service of the sanctuary
2: 10% set aside for travel, lodging, and food while in jerusalem at the feast
---francis on 8/21/13

Would help if you actually quoted the commands rather than put them in wrong words.

The tithe was NOT 10% of YOUR increase. It was a tenth of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree. NOT money. NOT a tenth of one's income. It was GOD'S INCREASE from GOD'S HAND, not from man's labor.

The festival tithe was a tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. NOT money. NOT from anyone's income.

See, you have CHANGED GOD'S "PERFECT LAW" to what YOU want it to say.
---Gary on 8/21/13


have yet to find any "law keeper" who keeps God's THREE tithing laws.
---Gary on 8/21/13
Means you do not understand the three tithes laws
let me give you two of them and you figure the law
1: 10% of your increase to the Lefites for the service of the sanctuary
2: 10% set aside for travel, lodging, and food while in jerusalem at the feast
3: your turn

We are under Grace.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13
what do you make of this verse:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

How does the bible define sin:
1 John 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law.
---francis on 8/21/13


I have yet to find any "law keeper" who keeps God's THREE tithing laws. Instead, so-called "law keepers" CHANGE God's tithing laws from a tenth of crops and animals to a tenth of one's so-called "increase" or income. That is NOT God's law. That is a man-made doctrine.

The history of tithing in the SDA Church is clear. It shows how the SDA leaders made it up.
---Gary on 8/21/13


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francis, I have yet to meet a minister who teaches what you said. No one teaches that. You are the one who twist everyone answers to suggest we are saying that, It is all in your mind. That's because you want everyone to be under the written law so they can do Saturday Sabbath. But the Spirit of the Law is already in our hearts. That doesn't mean that now we can go and do what we want. We are slaves to God. We function under His control. When we were lost we function according to the prince of the power of the air. Not anymore. We have been saved from the condemnation of the written Law. We are under Grace.
---Mark_V. on 8/21/13


I would like to meet the Minister who says to his congregation that since Christ has died for your sins, you are free to worship other gods, free to take the name of Jehovah in vain, free to make idols and worship, free to put your foot on the sabbath, free to dishonour your father and your mother, free to kill, free to steal, free to commit adultery, free to lie, free to covet.

From my bible reading, god did not come to change the law, or to destroy the law, he came to live it out fully, and that his father will put the law in our hearts and mind, and strengthen us by His spirit to keep the law
---francis on 8/20/13


"The Law includes prophecies of the Second coming. They are not fulfilled yet." Samuelbb7

Honestly, you seem to have a problem dividing the Word. How's the Law of God a prophesy? Isn't the Law of God the very testimony that God is a HOLY God? Doesn't the Law of God tells us that His tolerance to SIN is zero? And that the "wages for sin is DEATH"? Isn't that what the Law was all about? The Law of God does not prophesy but simply declares mankind are SINNERS before Him!

As for Christ's second coming (Judgement Day), that's a prophesy by itself. It simply tells us in that day all will be held accountable for their sins. Which simply means, that day WILL COME!
---christan on 8/20/13


Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul

Isaiah 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
---francis on 8/20/13


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The Law includes prophecies of the Second coming. They are not fulfilled yet.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/20/13


//

Notice: TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Jesus did fulfill all of it.

---Gary on 8/19/13
//

Then the first part of the verse is superfluous - WHILE HEAVEN AND EARTH SHALL LAST!

News Flash! I just looked outside. Heaven and earth are still here! So according to Jesus, the LAW is still in force. What was fulfilled was the penalty for the transgression of the LAW.



---jerry6593 on 8/20/13


Calvin and Luther along with Wesley all spoke of the law as having three parts. Moral, Ceremonial and Political. All concluded that the Decalogue was entirely Moral laws and as such are still in effect.

They along with many today understand that GOD requires his followers to live moral lives because they have been born again.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/13


The LAW is the LAW, period. And the LAW dclares, "For the wages of sin is death"!

As for what Christ said in Matthew 5:18, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled", Paul reminded us precisely of what the LAW is, "For we know that the law is spiritual", meaning the carnal man (aka SINNERS) is already judged and found wanting.

As for Romans 6:14, "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.", this verse doesn't apply to ALL man but to only God's elect, period.
---christan on 8/19/13


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The law will not change none of it. The wages of sin will always be death, Jesus took the death for us that was prophecies in Genesis 3:15, and practiced in the OT sanctuary services. By Jesus taking our death, we are no longer under the penalty of death.

The law whcih tells us what sin is, will not change, gdo is holy ( unable to tolerate sin) and that will never change

The priesthood has changed, from levi to Jesus. yet death is required for sin, blood sacrifice has been made, and the services continue in the heavenly sanctuary
---francis on 8/19/13


They are both correct. The law has not changed and those who are not Christian are still under the law. It's that the Christian in not under the law because the Christ FULFILLED the requirements for us, He did NOT abolish the law.

Matthew 5:17-18 (ASV)
Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
---wivv on 8/19/13


"Are they talking about the same LAW?" Yes.
"Who should we believe?" Both.
The law given at Mount Sinai has not changed, and still applicable to those under it, the body of Christ is not. For "law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners,... "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law,... The only law the believer is under, is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," and that law "has made [us] free from the law of sin and death. Granting for the believer a look into "the perfect law of liberty". 1Ti 1:9>Rom 3:19>Rom 8:2>Jam 1:25
---Josef on 8/19/13


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