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God Created The Animals

When God created the animals, were they originally created young or mature? Were more than one pair of each created first?

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 ---Cluny on 8/29/13
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Warwick:

You keep ignoring what I say. I keep saying that I am NOT challenging what length the Genesis days WERE.

I am challenging your assertion that THE BIBLE SAYS they are 24 hours long, because nowhere does it ACTUALLY SAY THOSE WORDS. I have asked you repeatedly to show me a chapter and verse that says they do, but instead, you offer logic and reasoning saying "they must have been" 24 hours, without showing the Bible actually SAYING SO (and I challenge this because you have, on at least one occasion SPECIFICALLY SAID that the bible ACTUALLY SAYS SO, which it never actually does).
---StrongAxe on 9/6/13


christan:

You quoted: "And the evening and the morning were the first day." This simply means from sunrise to sunset to the next sunrise, it's considered ONE DAY.

Yes, ONE DAY. I don't see the words "24" or "hour" here, which Warwick insists on always adding when quoting this scripture. Why is it necessary to add to scripture? Is what God ACTUALLY wrote not enough?

Also, Genesis 1 measures days from evening to evening, not sunset to sunset. It can't, because on days 1+2 THERE WAS NO SUN to set, so how can you tell when sunset is when there is no sun?
---StrongAxe on 9/6/13



"And the evening and the morning were the first day." This simply means from sunrise to sunset to the next sunrise, it's considered ONE DAY.---christan on 9/5/13


No, that means from sunset to the next sunset is one day, not sunrise to sunrise. Evening and morning were the first day. Not morning and evening.
---Jed on 9/5/13


"...[G1:5 says], "And the evening & the morning were the [lst] day."...from sunrise to sunset to... sunrise, [is] ONE DAY...the Bible [doesn't say a] day is 24 hours, but one day is one day. God [gave us] the wisdom to [know] time in seconds, minutes & hours..."
---christan on 9/5/13


Yes! God gave us common sense, coupled with faith, to bridge the gap between questions we have about what the Bible says & doesn't say. We can reason Bible truth even though God didn't say it "specifically" one way or another. God gave us minds to assess & draw conclusions from Bible writings. People who say God didn't put this or that in the Bible, therefore we don't need to know, error in judgment.
---Leon on 9/5/13


"The only thing I have been asserting is "The Bible nowhere SAYS the Genesis days were 24 hours long". I have not stated that *I* claim to know how long they were, as you do." StrongAxe

In your countless attempts to demonstrate how wise you are to the Word, it has worked against you. Genesis 1:5 explicitly declared, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." This simply means from sunrise to sunset to the next sunrise, it's considered ONE DAY.

Granted the BIble never said one day is 24 hours, but one day is one day. God has given man the wisdom to use time in seconds, minutes and hours to tell us the hour of the day, but like it or not - one day is still one day.
---christan on 9/5/13




"In Genesis, light was created BEFORE the sun, so it could not have been the same as our light today, because it COULD NOT be coming from a sun that did not yet exist." StrongAxe

The Bible explicitly declares in verse 1 of Genesis 1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Isn't it knowledge to anyone that the planets, stars, moon and SUN are also known as the "heaven"?
"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Isn't it understood that the first sunlight to sunset would be DAY? And from sunset to the next sunrise be known as NIGHT?

It's written in black and white!
---christan on 9/4/13


StrongAxe, God's word is consistent but you attempt to make it inconsistent. You acknowledge the many days of Numbers ch. 7 are 24hr days. However inconsistently you will not agree "the sixth day" in Genesis 1:31 is likewise a 24hr day, an ordinary evening and morning, earth rotation day. Your view is not supported by Scripture, Grammar, or logic. You hold this indefensible view because to accept Genesis 1 at face value would destroy your nonBiblical long-ages belief.

That the sun was not created until day 4 is irrelevant as on day 1 God created light "And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day."
---Warwick on 9/4/13


Note that 'day' is used with a number in Genesis 1. It is used as a
singular or plural with a number 410 times outside of Genesis and it
always means an ordinary day.

'Evening' and 'morning' are used together without 'day' 38 times
outside Genesis 1 and it always indicates an ordinary day. 'Evening' or
'morning' are used 23 times each with 'day' outside Genesis 1 and it
always means an ordinary day. And 'night' is used with 'day' 52 times
and it always indicates an ordinary 24hr day.

So what do we have in Genesis 1:5 "And there was evening and there was morning-the first day.' likewise 24hrs.
---Warwick on 9/4/13


StrongAxe Exodus 20:8-11:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work,...."

Why?

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.' The consequence of your view is that God said-I made the earth in 6 periods of unknowable length so you must work 6 periods of unknowable length and rest the unknowable 7th period of unknowable length. But if you work on the 7th unknowable period you are to be executed-Exodus 31:14. How unjust is your god!
---Warwick on 9/4/13


"And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Evening- "the latter part and close of the day and early part of the night"
Morning- "the time from sunrise to noon", "the time from midnight to noon"

Interesting that no Sun was created, yet there is 'morning' and 'evening' to measure by?

As the audience of the narrative is people (way after the fact of creation, Adam and Eve,etc.) and all days from the last through the first end likewise, "And the evening and the morning were the first day."
I see no objection to infer that each day was as long as we know a day to be.
---Nana on 9/4/13




Warwick:

Elisaph's are ordinary 24 hour days. I never disagreed on that.

But this isn't about what kinds of days Elisaph or we experienced. It is about days in Genesis 1. Unlike we who can measure days by the sun, there WAS no sun during days 1+2 to count by.

I mention Joshua only because his day shows days measured by the sun, NOT 24 hours - and once you have even one exception, the basic premise is invalid and must be re-examined.

No answer means you cannot answer without destroying your fabrication.

What fabrication? The only thing I have been asserting is "The Bible nowhere SAYS the Genesis days were 24 hours long". I have not stated that *I* claim to know how long they were, as you do.
---StrongAxe on 9/4/13


Axey: Blah, blah, blah. More obfuscation and circumlocution. What is the reason behind your insistence that the days mentioned in Scripture may not be normal days, except it be to allow for the possibility that Darwin may be right?

1Ki 18:21 .... How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if [Darwin], then follow him.




---jerry6593 on 9/4/13


christan:

You said: "Personal attacks"? I don't even want to mention what you and your cohorts do that you accuse others of doing. You guys excel in it more than others.

I challenge what people say, if I see that it's wrong. I don't challenge their character. That is the difference betwen us. Can you show anything I have ever said on these blogs that can be construed as a personal attack?

"What you say is wrong, and here's why..." is a debate about content, and appropriate to a discussion. "What you say shows you're clearly in darkness" is a personal attack, and not appropriate. Can you see the difference?
---StrongAxe on 9/3/13


StrongAxe you have no case either in Scripture, Grammar nor in logic so you resort to evasion. Neither Joshua's long day or day length on the moon are relevant. An attempt at diversion.

Language is all about communication and communicate it does. Numbers 7:42 "On the sixth day Eliasaph the son of Deuel, the chief of the people of Gad:...." What does "on the sixth day" mean? Answer please. No answer means you cannot answer without destroying your fabrication.

If I said-on the sixth day of my holiday...are these 24hr days yes or no?
---Warwick on 9/3/13


\\"It is as sport to a fool to do mischief... The way of a fool is right in his own eyes..." Proverbs 10:23, 12:15

"Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding." Proverbs 9:6
---christan on 9/3/13
\\

As Jesus once said, "Physician, heal thyself."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/3/13


Warwick:

You said: this evasion as a truthful answer would destroy your case.

I discuss what the Bible ACTUALLY says or not - not what you or I believe.

In Hebrew, and English, and the other languages I know the word for 'day' ... means an ordinary day of 24hours.

This is an observed phenomenon, NOT a definition. Dictionary says: the interval of light between two successive nights, the time between sunrise and sunset. Jewish law says from sunset to sunset.

Most earth days are 24 hours, but changing very slowly. Joshua's Long Day was more than 24 hours. Days on the moon are 709 hours. We have no way of measuring days 1+2, because how can one measure sunrise and sunset WHEN THERE WAS NO SUN?
---StrongAxe on 9/3/13


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StrongAxe,

"Personal attacks"? I don't even want to mention what you and your cohorts do that you accuse others of doing. You guys excel in it more than others.

Weren't you the one who set yourself up by saying, ""Since light today comes from the sun, and there WAS no sun during the first creation days, the light then MUST have been different than what we have today."

You have been exposed by Genesis 1:3-5 that makes your claim above untrue. Daily, you and your cohorts say things about the Word with no proper support from Scriptures but from your own understanding and yet when challenged to produce them, you claim you're being "personally attacked"? Grow up!
---christan on 9/3/13


jerry6593:

I never told Warwick his belief in 24 hour days wrong. I am not here to push my beliefs or disparage those of others. You shouldn't even be able to tell what I believe on this matter from what I've posted, because I've mever said. Ultimately, what I (or any other person) is not relevant to a discussion about what the Bible says.

I DO try to ensure that, when people make claims about what the Bible says and doesn't say, they are correct, and if not, that such claims are challenged, because these are matters of indisputable facts, and not of human opinion.

When matters are not clear, I may state an opinion, but make clear that it's a opinion by saying "I believe" or "I think that...".
---StrongAxe on 9/3/13


"How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?" Proverbs 1:22, "O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart." Proverbs 8:5

"He that winketh with the eye causeth sorrow: but a prating fool shall fall." Proverbs 10:10, "He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool." Proverbs 10:18, "It is as sport to a fool to do mischief... The way of a fool is right in his own eyes..." Proverbs 10:23, 12:15

"Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding." Proverbs 9:6
---christan on 9/3/13


christan:

I pointed out that today our light comes from the sun. In Genesis, light was created BEFORE the sun, so it could not have been the same as our light today, because it COULD NOT be coming from a sun that did not yet exist.

You responded with: Even as the sun shineth today, your heart is in complete darkness.

Once again, personal attacks (see my previous explanation of "diabolos") rather than actually speaking the subject by explaining just how what I said was wrong.

Note that in any kind of discussion, personal attacks are called ad hominem arguments, and are not a valid way of proving a point.
---StrongAxe on 9/3/13


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Even as the sun shineth today, your heart is in complete darkness.

---christan on 9/3/13


We knew you were mentally ill but we didn't know you talked to yourself too.
---Jed on 9/3/13


"Since light today comes from the sun, and there WAS no sun during the first creation days, the light then MUST have been different than what we have today." StrongAxe

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:3-5

"the light then MUST have been different than what we have today" - YA, RIGHT!

Even as the sun shineth today, your heart is in complete darkness.
---christan on 9/3/13


genesis 1:4..And God saw the light, that it was good and God divided the light from the darkness. vs 5..And God called the light day and the darkness He called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. all we need is to use a little common sense. God is in control of day and night. God also made the day for a certain time and the night for a certain time. I sort of doubt if God has changed this.
---shira4368 on 9/3/13


Axey: OK, the Bible doesn't say "24 hour" days. But what is your motive for insisting that they might be something other than 24 hours? There is certainly nothing in the Creation account or in the Ten Commandment Law that hints of other time measures. I think, that like so many others, you desire confusion on the subject in order to allow room for Darwin to be right. But, he never will be. God means exactly what He says, and He said that He created in six days and that YOU (not just Jews) are to rest on the 7th day. But you hate this Law and refuse to comply. Pity.



---jerry6593 on 9/3/13


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StrongAxe, true to form you have not answered one of my questions. As I see it you have done this evasion as a truthful answer would destroy your case. You know very well that if I said-I will see you in 6 days you would not ask-How long are your days? because we all know what 6 days means. Therefore when God says 6 days/ 6th day in Genesis 1, Numbers 7:42, or in Exodus 20:8-11 you do know He is saying 6 24hr days. If you do not know this then language has no meaning.

In Hebrew, and English, and the other languages I know the word for 'day' when accompanied by one, two, three, or first, second, third means an ordinary day of 24hours.
---Warwick on 9/2/13


Warwick:

You are an intelligent man, but you seem to not ever read a word I say, but you are reading between the lines, just as you do to the Bible.

I HAVE NEVER SAID the days weren't 24 hours. Read my blog posts. You won't find it. I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

I HAVE said that the Bible never ACTUALLY says they are 24 hours. You HAVE said the bible actually SAYS 24 hours, which is just NOT true.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/13


Exo_31:12-17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

I can only imagine like some here, did God really mean six days?
Here God is actually comparing six 24 hour working days with the actual time of creation!
Isnt this clear, six actual working days, I mean really!
How can you even think God meant something else?
Read it!

Exo_31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Written in stone with the finger of God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/2/13


StrongAxe, you are an intelligent man, but act dumb. If I wrote to you saying-I will see you in 6 days, you will know I mean 6 24hr days, I do not need to append 24hrs to 'days' for you to understand, do I? Answer please.

Let us go to Numbers 7:42 "On the sixth day Eliasaph son of Deuel, the leader of the people of Gad, brought his offering" Now 24hrs does not appear anywhere but don't tell me we cannot know whether God meant a 24hr day or not! Answer please.

Same God, same Bible "And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day. But you say-we cannot know how long the 6th day was! Why? Answer please.

---Warwick on 9/2/13


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Warwick:

You said: Trust the word of God who was there, and does not lie, rather than the changing opinions of sinful man who was not there.

Exactly. Why not just trust God's word as what he said, without feeling compelled to add additional words like "24" and "hour" to it? God didn't use those words. He apparently felt they weren't necessary. Why do you?
---StrongAxe on 9/2/13


Bryan 2 Peter 3:8 "with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." This does not say a day is a thousand years to God or that a thousand years is a day. It demonstrates eternal God does not live in days of any length. This verse has nothing to do with creation.

There is a great difference between evolved and created. God supernaturally made man from the dust of the earth and created him in His own likeness. Evolution has man appearing over vast eons of time, evolving from some creature which was not a man. God did it within the 6th 24hr day.

Trust the word of God who was there, and does not lie, rather than the changing opinions of sinful man who was not there.
---Warwick on 9/2/13


christan:

You said: If it was not the light as we see as today, then what was it?

Since light today comes from the sun, and there WAS no sun during the first creation days, the light then MUST have been different than what we have today.


Warwick:

You said: There is no reason to believe it is anything other than literal 24 hr days

I never claimed the days were not 24 hours. I just repeatedly challenge you assertion that the Bible SAYS they are 24 hours, because it never actually does. When I ask you to prove it, you give logic but no scriptures, because there are none.

"The days were 24 hours" is plausible. "The Bible says they were 24 hours" is patently false.
---StrongAxe on 9/2/13


\\So were talking about animals in the garden of Eden? Or the creation of man in a frame of time?\\

This thread is talking about the creation of the animals, in what condition they were created, and how many of each kind was created.

\\As a spices we evolved When God like the way we look that is when he breath life into us.\\

Jesus said we were the salt of the earth, not the spices of life.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/2/13


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Bryan
Nowhere in the Bible, is or was man an animal!
Gen_2:7 And the LORD God formed (man) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

God formed (man) of the dust of the ground!
In that same instant breathed into his nostrils the breath of life!
And the (man) became a living soul!
Now even though man may act like an animal and many do!
Man was (never and will never) be an animal.


Now guys aside from:
Gen_1:11 and 12 (fruit tree "yielding fruit"!)
Gen_2:5 and there was not ("a man" to till the ground. "work the ground")
All fully grow!
You want to believe animal were different? WHY?
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/2/13


Create, evolved, both words end up with a human being. You said 1 day with God is as Thousand years? Meaning time is irrelevant to God. He has all ready seen the end and the beginning. He breath his life into the man, that turned him into a living soul. What was he before he was a living soul? What are we until we except Jesus as our savor?
---Bryan on 9/2/13


Bryan, man was never animal: made from the dust of the earth, but created in the image of God. No evolving at all, a special creation.
---Warwick on 9/2/13


"On the first day God created LIGHT do you think it was the light you see in the sky? " Bryan

"And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

If it was not the light as we see as today, then what was it? Mind you, Genesis 1:1 talks about what God was doing, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Wasn't He declaring to us that He created this physical earth as what we have today?

There's a reason why the first book is called Genesis. It's the beginning of time and creation.
---christan on 9/1/13


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So were talking about animals in the garden of Eden? Or the creation of man in a frame of time? Man was a animal until God took man a breath his life into him and placed him in the garden of Eden. So how long did it take God to grow a man from the dust of the ground? If it is time based on us. Thousand of years, but if it is time based on God not every long at all. But you don't have to believe me but science can SHOW you the proof of creation of man. Not that wwe came from a monkeys. As a spices we evolved When God like the way we look that is when he breath life into us.
---Bryan on 9/1/13


\\Your deviation from the creation of the MAN by God\\

But this thread is not talking about the creation of human beings.

It's talking about the creation of ANIMALS by God.

Or are you saying that humans are nothing more than animals?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/1/13


StrongAxe,

There is no reason to believe it is anything other than literal 24 hr days. Tell us what your real problem is with this being so. Is it that it just does not fit with your world view of long ages, which is contrary to the bible? In every case its a literal 24 hr day. If you dont believe what is clearly stated, the onus is on you to prove otherwise, not the other way around.

The only examples you previously gave in another thread were one day is as a thousand years with the Lord and Joshuas long day. Your first example is simply stating that time is meaningless to God and is not within the context of the days of creation. Your second example was clearly qualified in the scriptures as being a LONG day, period.
---jason9835 on 9/1/13



Cluny, StrongAxe, Jed - it's seems you three come together as a tag team, but not a problem.

Your deviation from the creation of the MAN by God to simply talking about animals is a clear sign of where your hearts lie as far as God's Almighty purpose of creation is concerned.
---christan on 8/31/13


The original question was about the physical maturity of the animals in the Garden of Eden. That's the topic of this thread. YOU are the one deviating from the topic, not us. And that shows that you can't stay on topic because you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the conversation at hand. Because you actually know little to nothing about the Bible, as you've proven on other threads as well.
---Jed on 9/1/13


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Christan I think you have missed Jed's point. As I read it he was pointing out that the Jewish Holy Days began the evening previously, as in the evening and the morning were the first/second...day. That their days were, as in Genesis sunset to sunset days i.e 24hr days. I don't believe he was suggesting we need follow Jewish Holy Days.
---Warwick on 9/1/13


Wow you folks can get into a lot of debates about the word tiring to one up each other. On the first day God created LIGHT do you think it was the light you see in the sky? His word brings light to all darkness. When you share it watch what happens.
---Bryan on 9/1/13


Cluny, StrongAxe, Jed - it's seems you three come together as a tag team, but not a problem.

Your deviation from the creation of the MAN by God to simply talking about animals is a clear sign of where your hearts lie as far as God's Almighty purpose of creation is concerned.

It's obvious as a Christian (I speak for myself) that one cannot discuss the creations of God without using the creation of the MAN as a point of reference. The Seg gave an excellent quote from Genesis 1:11-13 to answer you foolishness with regards to this topic you three amigos seem so distracted with.

Or don't you believe or understand Genesis 1:11-13?
---christan on 8/31/13


Don't forget that the sun and moon were not created unto the 4th day.
---Cluny on 8/31/13

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Nice logic.
But Day and night existed before the sun and moon exsted
---francis on 8/31/13


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"All of the holy days in the Old Testament were commanded to be observed this way." Jed

Good for you. Are you still vigilantly practicing all that the Old Testament has taught the Jews and did them no good whatsoever? Have you not read,

"For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth." Romans 10:2-4

Get it?
---christan on 8/31/13


\\Likewise Scripture says the 6 days of creation were ordinary evening and morning 24hr days. \\

BCV, please.

Don't forget that the sun and moon were not created unto the 4th day.
---Cluny on 8/31/13


Yet, the Bible does clearly state that "the evening and morning were the first day, second day, third day, etc." That's why throughout the Bible a day always was from sunset to sunset, and why Jews to this day correctly follow suit. Sabbath begins at sunset Friday evening and ends at sunset Saturday evening (which is the reason they were in a hurry to bury Jesus before sundown). All of the holy days in the Old Testament were commanded to be observed this way.
---Jed on 8/31/13


Cluny, if you are referring to something I have written please have the manners to address your reply to me.

I think this may have been written for you "they deliberately overlook this fact, that the....earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God" 2 Peter 3:5.

Curiously you know what God did on the 4th day but missed what He did previously. He said "Let there be light...and there was evening and there was morning-the first day." Now let's take a jump of faith for you: maybe this light was what God used to light the earth, before the sun?

Where does God say 6 days mean 24hr days-throughout Scripture e.g Genesis ch. 1, Exodus 20:8-11, Numbers 12: 12-78.
---Warwick on 8/31/13


Warwick:

You said yet again: Likewise Scripture says the 6 days of creation were ordinary evening and morning 24hr days.

No, it doesn't. Scripture uses "day". Period. Never "24" or "hour" with respect to days in Genesis, or ANYWHERE ELSE. It also doesn't qualify Genesis days as "ordinary" days.

If you say "scripture IMPLIES ordinary 24hr days", you could possibly make a case, but "scripture SAYS..." is patently wrong, because it doesn't say any such thing, and any study of Hebrew or English words in Genesis proves this.

If you believe I am wrong, please cite any verse in Genesis that SAYS "ordinary", "24", or "hour".
---StrongAxe on 8/31/13


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\\Likewise Scripture says the 6 days of creation were ordinary evening and morning 24hr days. \\

BCV, please.

Don't forget that the sun and moon were not created unto the 4th day.

When did God create water, or was it pre-existing, as Genesis 1:2 suggests? Nowhere does the Bible say God said, "Let there be water."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/13


christan:

You said: Please show us where in the Bible does it say so.

It doesn't say one way or other. this is why I said perhaps, because it could go either way.

If you want to ONLY go by what the Bible ACTUALLY says and exclude everything else, they COULDN'T have been adults and they ALSO COULDN'T have been young, because the Bible doesn't say they were either. Such narrow-minded interpretation leads to obvious contradictions.

When the Bible doesn't say one way or other, one must admit the possibility that it could be either way.
---StrongAxe on 8/31/13



"They could have been young, taken some time to grow to maturity, and then multiplied in their own good time." StrongAxe

Please show us where in the Bible does it say so.
---christan on 8/30/13


Please show us where the Bible says otherwise! StrongAxe said it "could have been".


Be reminded that we're discussing about the FIRST MAN Adam that was created from dust by God.
---christan on 8/30/13


Actually were not discussing MAN at all, we're discussing animals.

The Bible does not tell us weather the animals were full grown adults or not. Any claim you make is purely speculation and circumstantial.
---Jed on 8/31/13


Gen 1:24 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth AFTER HIS KIND: and it was so."

After his kind, has to me implied reproduced.
after (implies a first)
his (its) ? seen both used
kind (type)
However, if this is the first creation of each kind, then how can it be AFTER ITS KIND if that is an accurate understanding.

vs 24 compared to 25
LET the earth bring forth
God made
---chria9396 on 8/31/13


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StrongAxe, you always need Genesis to be unknowable, even when it isn't. Strange for a Christian.

You wrote "the Bible makes no mention of maturity (or lack thereof) at all. It's all reading between the lines." Wrong. If you read "A man" in literature does it mean not a man? Genesis 2:7and 15 say "man." All Scripture says "man."

Likewise Scripture says the 6 days of creation were ordinary evening and morning 24hr days. You will search in vain for any other time period being mentioned. If this is not so then the Sabbath commandment was both meaningless and lethal to those to whom it was given.
---Warwick on 8/31/13


Like the chicken or the egg question, God has given us the ability to use common sense, coupled with faith, to bridge the gap between questions we have about what the Bible says & supposedly doesn't say. For example, the Bible says God created the fowl, etc. Chicken are fowl. Then God told them to be fruitful & multiply. Was He talking to eggs? Common sense says no, God spoke to "young" (newly created) "mature" (grown & capable of reproducing) birds. That can be reasoned from the Bible even though God didn't say it like that. Again, God gave us minds to assess & draw conclusions from Bible writings. People who say God didn't put this or that in the Bible, therefore we don't need to know, error in judgment.
---Leon on 8/31/13


Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, (whose seed is in itself), upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, (whose seed was in itself), after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Is there something unclear here with, whose seed is in itself?
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/31/13


somethings to ponder. Were they created timeless? Outside of time?
Created "before" the fall...
"when" did time begin?
---chria9396 on 8/31/13


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The Bible does not directly say, as far as I know.

But I think it is reasonable that each creature needed to be mature enough to survive. So, if sheep started as lambs which depend on a mother for milk, for one example . . . this could be a problem if they had no mommy (c:

"But God could have fed them miraculously, plus the world could have been in a different state before sin entered into the world, so that at that time things did not operate by present physical principles."

Romans 8:20-21
---willie_c: on 8/31/13


In the beginning God

In the beginning God created

Beginning:: 7225 reshiyth

from same as 7218 ?

The first, in place, time order or rank (spec. a firstfruit)-beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing
Also best, choice part
---chria9396 on 8/31/13


\\Be reminded that we're discussing about the FIRST MAN Adam that was created from dust by God.\\

Who's "we," Kemo Sabe?

The question I asked has to do with the ANIMALS.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/13


"They could have been young, taken some time to grow to maturity, and then multiplied in their own good time." StrongAxe

Please show us where in the Bible does it say so.

Be reminded that we're discussing about the FIRST MAN Adam that was created from dust by God. We're not discussing about a child being BORN from the man and woman. That's because Adam did not come into the world like you and I.

"the Bible makes no mention of maturity (or lack thereof) at all"

"And the Lord God FORMED MAN of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and MAN became a living being." Genesis 2:7 - YOU'RE WRONG!
---christan on 8/30/13


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\\Since most of the creatures that entered the Ark were in pairs, likely that's how they were created. IMHO"\\

But was it just one pair of each--or MORE than one pair, which would give a better chance of providing genetic diversity? That's my question. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/30/13


Leon:

They could have been young, taken some time to grow to maturity, and then multiplied in their own good time.

Rita_h:

the Bible makes no mention of maturity (or lack thereof) at all. It's all reading between the lines.

There had to have been more than two of some species. Otherwise, the furs God made for Adam and Eve would have made some extinct. Literal-24-hourists would require these to have been created, since no mammals gestate in under a week.

But these are all foolish questions. The Bible doesn't go into great details about any of this, and it's silly to get one's knickers in a knot about things the Bible doesn't think it's important enough to tell us about.
---StrongAxe on 8/30/13


"I didn't say "infants." I said "young." Cluny

And neither does the Holy Bible says "young". The problem with you and your understanding of the Word is you're constantly adding on to the Word to justify your foolishness, making the Bible sound like those writing and gathering it together did not know what they were doing. Always saying what it doesn't say and never saying what it says.

Here, read "And the Lord God formed MAN of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and MAN became a living soul."

Does it say, "young man"? Stick to what is written and we won't have to discuss this matter further.
---christan on 8/30/13


"Cluny, That's like the old question "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"
Obviously they were created "mature" as were Adam and Eve! Since most of the creatures that entered the Ark were in pairs, likely that's how they were created. IMHO"
---1st_cliff on 8/29/13


I agree with your comment about "mature" Cliff in that they most certainly would've had to be mature in order to "be fruitful & multiply".
---Leon on 8/30/13


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Genesis 1:29 states ' Then God said, "I now give to you all the plants on the earth that yield seeds and all the trees whose fruit produces its seeds within it." '

If God had created baby plants Adam & Eve would have starved, if He created baby trees or baby animals there would have been no mature ones for decades.

The bible makes it clear that He created all things IN ADULT FORM all capable of producing further generations
---Rita_H on 8/30/13


\\Logic should tell you that infants can't survive without their mothers, and plants don't provide food unless mature. So how would all the babies live? What would they eat? \\

I didn't say "infants." I said "young."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/30/13


Cluny having made Adam and Eve on the 6th day God said "be fruitful and increase in number' Genesis 1:28, making a strong case they were then old enough to produce offspring. Confirming this is 2:7 "then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground...."

Of course the plants which God created for man and animals to eat would have been created mature or both would have starved.

We also see in 2:15 that "The LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it." And able to choose right from wrong. Both of these points concur with him, and Eve being mature enough to choose good or evil.
---Warwick on 8/30/13


This is a silly question. Everything - plants, animals and man - were created in a mature state. Logic should tell you that infants can't survive without their mothers, and plants don't provide food unless mature. So how would all the babies live? What would they eat?

God created a perfect, mature, operating world which, after Adam's sin, began to DEvolve (not Evolve) into the mess we see today.

It was the chicken which came first, Cluny. Evolution is a lie - a childish creation story for atheists.




---jerry6593 on 8/30/13


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Cluny, "Be fruitful and multiply" means they "were" mature enough !
It takes maturity and ability to name all the creatures accurately!
If more than one "pair" they would be separate species.
---1st_cliff on 8/30/13


To the question of this blog - "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29

"\\Obviously they were created "mature" as were Adam and Eve\\ Where does the Bible actually say either?"

"And the Lord God formed MAN of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and MAN became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

There's a specific reason why "MAN" is used and not "baby or infant". So much for one who boast about reading the Pentateuch.
---christan on 8/29/13


Genesis 1:22 "And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth."
Multiply? Isn't that a function of mature creatures?

I venture say more than a pair from, "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."
---Nana on 8/29/13


When God created the animals, were they originally created young or mature? Were more than one pair of each created first?

Since the Bible doesn't tell us, there is absolutely no way anyone would be able to accurately answer this question. And any attempt to do so is pure speculation.
---Jed on 8/30/13


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\\Obviously they were created "mature" as were Adam and Eve\\

Where does the Bible actually say either?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/13


Cliff took my answer. Though, I also believe God leaves many such questions unanswered. If everything in His Word made sense, it would be much easier to believe. What kind of faith is that?
---Grandma on 8/29/13


Cluny, That's like the old question "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"
Obviously they were created "mature" as were Adam and Eve! Since most of the creatures that entered the Ark were in pairs, likely that's how they were created. IMHO
---1st_cliff on 8/29/13


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