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Thinking About A Divorce

I am contemplating a divorce after 26 years.

Moderator - Why?

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 ---Kangmara on 9/4/13
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Why should I have to apologize or defend the disciplines of Christ's Orthodox Church to you, Jed?

We were around for a millennium before there was the Roman Catholic Church--and an additional 500 years before there were Protestants.

Answer my question first.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/21/13


Jed: Thank you for asking Cluny the same questions, which are totally logical, that I keep thinking of.
---Trish on 9/21/13


So Cluny, what you are telling me is that couples who were not virgins when they got married are allowed to serve as pastors, so long as it occurred before they were baptized?

Still that doesn't answer my question of why only this sin (committed after baptism) disqualifies couples from serving as pastors? Are they also disqualified if they have gossiped, lusted, cursed, coveted, cheated, etc. after they were baptized?
---Jed on 9/20/13


\\So your pastors do or don't have be virgins?
---Jed on 9/20/13\\

Let's put it like this.

There can be no sexual history outside of marriage that took place after baptism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/13


So your pastors do or don't have be virgins?
---Jed on 9/20/13




\\No Cluny, you stated that your pastors are required to swear under oath that they were virgin's when they got married. Does getting baptised suddenly make you a virgin again?
---Jed on 9/20/13\\

Sins committed before baptism are washed away. And yes, in effect, it does. (BTW, you can be baptized only once.)

FWIW, St. Augustine (of all people) once told a virgin who was raped that in God's eyes she was still a virgin.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/13


No Cluny, you stated that your pastors are required to swear under oath that they were virgin's when they got married. Does getting baptised suddenly make you a virgin again?
---Jed on 9/20/13


I'm referring to sexual sins and plural marriages committed AFTER baptism.

Should have made that clear.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/13


Jed, our sins are in the deepest part of the sea. all our sin is forgiven. for instance my mom and dad was married before they married each other and were saved after they were married. do you think God hold's their sin against them? no, He does not.
---shira4368 on 9/19/13


May we now ask from the Jews who know their history if indeed it was so, that when a priest's wife die, he does not remarry?
---Adetunji on 9/20/13




Cluny, you didn't answer the question. How are other sins more ideal than premarital relations? It is ideal to not sin at all, but we both know such a person has never existed, except Christ himself. If a past sin of premarital relations, which could be decades old, perhaps before the couple was even saved, can be held against them, then why not other past sins as well? Or even current sins?


Interestingly, you claim your denimination to be the "original church from the NT", yet none of them had such a rule regarding past sins. Paul himself was guilty of killing innocent Christians. Certainly you dont consider premarital relations to be worse than murder?
---Jed on 9/19/13


\\Jed, KarenD: Let alone the Orthodox & their belief (1 wife 1 lifetime). We do not find this practised in the H.Bible. F. Abraham married Keturah after Sarah died & God was not grieved.\\

Was Abraham a priest? No.

However, one marriage IS the ideal, and clergy are expected to hold to the ideal.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/19/13


Jed, KarenD: Let alone the Orthodox & their belief (1 wife 1 lifetime). We do not find this practised in the H.Bible. F. Abraham married Keturah after Sarah died & God was not grieved.
---Adetunji on 9/19/13


This is the ideal, Jed.

Deal with it.

However, there is more than one way to serve the church than through the major orders of deacon, priest, or bishop.

There are cantors, readers, catechists, and all sorts of other ways.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/18/13


Cluny, why are couples who have had pre-marital relations in the past banned from taking a pastoral position in the Orthodox denomination? Do candidates also have to swear that they have never stolen? Or lied? Or dishonored their parents? Or desired their neighbor's belongings? Or gossiped? Or lusted? Or cursed?

Of all the sins that humans commit daily, why does this one sin disqualify them from being pastors? Especially since it was a past sin that they have already repented of (seeing they are now married) and was possibly a one time occurrence from years or decades ago? Does an Orthodox priest have to be free of any past or present sins? Or is it only this one past sin that your church holds against them forever? And why?
---Jed on 9/18/13


I have a problem with narcicistic bullies who can never be wrong and will defend their own actions at all costs, and then can only throw insults at people who call them into question.
---Jed on 9/18/13


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Thanks strongaxe. I don't often suggest divorce, but I think it is time Cluny and Jed get divorced.
---KarenD on 9/17/13

It is a mixed marriage....R.C. spin off Orthodox with Protestant.

2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Deu_22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.
---Trav on 9/18/13


KarenD:

You wrote: Thanks strongaxe. I don't often suggest divorce, but I think it is time Cluny and Jed get divorced.

Is that because you think they bicker like an old married couple? :)
---StrongAxe on 9/18/13


Thanks strongaxe. I don't often suggest divorce, but I think it is time Cluny and Jed get divorced.
---KarenD on 9/17/13


KarenD:

The fact that someone else (in this case, perhaps your sister) used your screen name once two years ago is fairly old news, and isn't a good reason to need to change your screen name now. I think doing so would cause more confusion, rather than less.
---StrongAxe on 9/17/13


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OK, Jed, let's clear the air and start over.

What question are you asking? I'll try to answer it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/17/13


Yes Cluny, my opinion of your spirituality is irrelevant. I already said I cannot answer for you spiritually. I could not possibly know your obedience to God. That's between you and God. Now I've asked you to answe a simple question several times now and you still can not answer other than to say "You're not spiritual enough to deserve an answer". How dare you presume to know my obedience to God.

So you still have no answer to the questions then?
---Jed on 9/17/13


\\ Your opinion of my spiritual state is irrelevant. \\

How about your opinion of mine?

That's what I was asking about.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Cluny, why are couples who have had pre-marital relations in the past banned from taking a pastoral position in the Orthodox denomination? Do candidates also have to swear that they have never stolen? Or lied? Or dishonored their parents? Or desired their neighbor's belongings? Or gossiped? Or lusted? Or cursed?

Of all the sins that humans commit daily, why does this one sin disqualify them from being pastors? Especially since it was a past sin that they have already repented of (seeing they are now married) and was possibly a one time occurrence from years or decades ago? Does an Orthodox priest have to be free of any past or present sins? Or is it only this one past sin that your church holds against them forever? And why?
---Jed on 9/16/13


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KarenD, don't you just hate it when I show you things from the scriptures you don't like?

You can't refute them, so you indulge in ad hominem attacks.

I think that what makes you madder than anything else is my not agreeing with you.

But **I** am narcissistic?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Karen D, Cluny does not manage to attack others, what he does is to speak to defend his denomination at the cost of the real Truth many times, yet in some areas his doctrine is like ours. The problem he has is that he has so much pride in his denomination. Others here do the same thing. Catholics and SDA's do the same thing.
Denominations are not going to save anyone, the Truth does. All genuine believers should be more interested in the Truth then anything else. Pride gets in their way at a very high cost.
---Mark_V. on 9/17/13


How is it that such a spiritually superior person as Cluny manages to attack so many people on one blog. Your narcissism is showing.
---KarenD on 9/16/13


Cluny, I cannot answer for you spiritually, nor can you for me. Attempting to get into a "spirituality" contest is childish to say the least, certainly not courageous by any means. Your opinion of my spiritual state is irrelevant. I base my beliefs upon scripture and facts, and I asked you for an answer from scripture. If you want to show that you are "spiritually superior" then prove it instead of simply stating that you are. Making comments like "I'm not going to explain it because you're not spiritual enough to understand" is very cowardly and proves nothing (except that you can't provide an explanation).

So are you going to answer now or continue side-stepping with personal attacks?
---Jed on 9/16/13


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\\ Your immature "I'm more spiritual than you" and "you're not spiritual enough to understand" responses are not an answer.\\

Jed, do you think that you are more spiritual than I am, and that you DO understand?

Please answer yes or no.

(Perhaps I simply have the courage to say what you think about me.)

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


More personal attacks. So you dont have an answer then?
---Jed on 9/16/13


You do love to project, don't you, Jed?

BTW, I tried answering one of your questions, but the moderator blocked it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Cluny, your personal attacks do nothing to help your case. They only show your inability to support your unbiblical practices. You have yet to give an answer to my question or reason for your denominations criteria for ministry. Your immature "I'm more spiritual than you" and "you're not spiritual enough to understand" responses are not an answer. They're an obvious cover up for the fact that you really don't have an answer.
---Jed on 9/16/13


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\\Cluny, there is nothing spiritual about your denomination. You have nothing spiritual, you only have a bunch of spare-rituals.
---Jed on 9/15/13\\

Keep on blessing us, Jed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/16/13


Cluny, there is nothing spiritual about your denomination. You have nothing spiritual, you only have a bunch of spare-rituals.
---Jed on 9/15/13


Cluny, if your denomination only allows men without sin, past or present, to become pastors, then who leads your church services?
---Jed on 9/15/13


And according to the words of Our Savior in the Holy Gospels, remarriage after divorce is adultery, so whose church is teaching unscriptural doctrine, KarenD?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/15/13


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I agree with Jed. Orthodox teaches unbiblical doctrine. That scripture about "one wife" does not mean only one marriage in lifetime. There were multiple wives during this time so it meant the pastor could have only one wife and not many. It is foolish to believe that a widowed person is not free to marry after the death of a spouse. At least I now understand better why Cluny is not married. Perhaps he couldn't pass the test.
---KarenD on 9/15/13


I'm neither upset nor surprised you reacted the way you did, ted.

Since spiritually things are spiritually discerned, I don't expect you to understand why the Orthodox Church that the Savior founded does what she does.

How can you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/14/13


Cluny, thank you for pointing out YET ANOTHER very unbiblical tradition of the Orthodox denomination, and how you twist scripture (1 Tim. 3:2) to include prior marriages to spouses who are now deceased.

Biblically, remarriage after the death of a spouse is no less respectable or ideal than an initial marriage. In fact, it is encouraged in the Bible for widows to remarry, and not remain single. The Bible makes it clear that a marriage is absolved upon death (no marriages in heaven). So if you want to get technical, a widowed man who does NOT remarry is in violation of the "one wife" clause, because he is currently unmarried and is therefore ineligable for ministry.
---Jed on 9/14/13


\\Cluny....Are you saying that a widowed and then remarried man could not be a minister under Orthodoxy rules?
---KarenD on 9/13/13\\

Yes.

The ideal is one marriage per person per lifetime. The ministers are expected to hold up the ideal.

Under certain circumstances, a widowed priest or deacon with young children may remarry, but is also deposed from his orders.

St. Paul says that they are to be the husbands of ONE WIFE--that is, married only once.

The service for a Second Marriage is quite different from for a First Marriage. The details need not concern us here. It would take more than 125 words.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


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Cluny....Are you saying that a widowed and then remarried man could not be a minister under Orthodoxy rules?
---KarenD on 9/13/13


\\you lie more than any other on here. you cut down someones faith with lies.\\

Tell me one lie I have told, shira.

Be specific.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/13


cluny, I agree with Karen, how do you know anyone is a virgin? don't you think people lie??? you lie more than any other on here. you cut down someones faith with lies. I would be afraid to do that but you do it with boldness and ignorance.
---shira4368 on 9/12/13


\\Cluny....Who verifies that they are both virgins?????
---KarenD on 9/11/13\\

An oath taken on the Holy Gospels.

And because of this requirement, people WILL not petition for ordination if they are not qualified.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/13


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Just want to say to the person Kangmara, forgive my tardiness.

Humans we are fallible, and may the Lord be your guide He knows all about your situation. You can spend time talk to Jesus, God originally did not impliment but because of hardness of hearts, adultery, sin..
We can not judge but seek the Lord he will let you know..
Stay in the word,time with God.
---Lidia4796 on 9/12/13


KarenD,

I know you were not the old KarenD I hoped by asking the questions it would clear things up for those who were accusing you. You would answer differently from the first or second KarenD. She would defend that supporting Halloween as harmless fun ,as if being a Pastors wife made it right.


I hope bloggers will respect your views of who you are, some of them have dialogued with KarenD in the past, and by your conversation should know your stance is far different.



Peace Xx
---Carla on 9/12/13


Cluny....Who verifies that they are both virgins?????
---KarenD on 9/11/13


\\His credentials are with a large denomination and would not have them if our marriage was not Biblical.\\

What Jesus actually said in the Bible is that remarriage after divorce is adultery. Not all mss have the escape clause "except for adultery/fornication."

What you are saying is that your large denomination ignored the plain text of the Bible, a la the Biblical interpretation flow chart of Betty Bowers (who is a better Christian than you).

FWIW, in Orthodoxy, no married man can be ordained who has been twice married, or whose wife is twice married. And BOTH must be virgins on their wedding nights.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/11/13


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Carla....My husband's ex-wife left him for another man and she died several years ago. His credentials are with a large denomination and would not have them if our marriage was not Biblical. We are totally against any kind of celebration at Halloween, including harvest festivals which are just excuses for churches to have Halloween parties and made a few people mad when we would not have one when we first began pastoring our present church.
---KarenD on 9/11/13


RitaH....When I click on my screen name, it only takes me back to August 2013 posts. How do I get to these old ones?
---KarenD on 9/11/13


Hello,I believe we all have our ups & downs in life. I like KarenD. She gives good advice, I hold no malace against anyone,

I feel we need to be kind and "not rake one another over the coals"
Married couples, as well as singles have a right to privacy, just my opinion, why go over the past ??

If someone mis- use her online name, she can change it.
I wish you well SisterKarenD.
All respect to you & your other half..
---Lidia4796 on 9/11/13


Jed

I often dialogued with KarenD who said her husband was a preacher she also said there was nothing wrong with he marriage and divorce situation even though it did not happen as a result of adultery. She always maintained that her family and children did Halloween and thought it harmless fun... I'm not sure if this is the same KarenD.
---Carla on 9/11/13


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StrongAxe...Since that is exactly what my sister's husband said to her shortly after they were married, I can guess who used my screen name on this site. Guess that's what happens when someone gets mad at you because you tell her that divorcing her husband for another man is not right and that she should work on her marriage. Of course, she didn't listen and is now by herself again after the "other" man left her for another younger woman. Time to change my screen name.
---KarenD on 9/11/13


James & Carla, I can understand how someone else with the names James or Carla could be on this site and use your same name by coincidence. But seriously, 2 people coincidentally using the screen name "KarenD"?
---Jed on 9/11/13


KarenD:

You said: I have ALWAYS posted positive comments regarding my husband on this site.

Google: karend christianet husband church
finds "Divorce My Busy Husband":

Glenn....How about this one? On our honeymoon I said to my husband, "Til death do us part." His answer was that scripture could be interpreted to mean when love dies.
---KarenD on 8/7/09


Somebody using your name said that 4 years ago. Anyone can post using any name on this site. Sometimes two people using the same name is a result of deliberate malice, but I think more frequently it's a matter of coincidence. (I changed my name here shortly after I joined, when I found somebody using the same name).
---StrongAxe on 9/10/13


\\...highly unlikely...two people who use the screen name "KarenD"...have the same email address. \\
---Jed on 9/9/13

Email address has nothing to do with it. If two people use the exact same name, then clicking on either one's name will show posts from both people as if they were from the same person.

When I first came to this site, I used the name "James"

I clicked on my name below a post of mine once, and there was stuff I didn't post.

That other James' writing style is VERY similar to mine too.

I was dumbfounded at first. Then it dawned on me that I'm not the only person on the internet with that name - imagine that !

I added my last initial because of it.
---James_L on 9/10/13


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Jed:

You said: I find it highly unlikely that there would be two people who use the screen name ... who also happen to have the same email address.

People are required to give email addresses when posting here, but those are not shown. So, except moderators who may have access to that information, nobody else can tell.


Rita_H:

You said: Clicking the name ... Both are linked by the email address from which they were sent

Actually, posts appear to be linked by screen name only. I have occasionally misspelled by own name (e.g. leaving out a capital) and it appeared to be a different user. If two people at different times use the same screen name, both will appear as the same user on here.
---StrongAxe on 9/10/13


It not just highly unlikely Jed, It is something that has happened to a few members, i was a member someone was allowed the same screen name exact spelling...long after I joined(system error) .Her posts were appearing on my page, and she knew it but would not change her name, so I did not post anymore for awhile, she has gone now. One person posted that I was looking for a new husband (highly unlikely)some people thought this was great... as if I would post that type of comment! I'm sure one of the members on here enjoyed the propergander but was sore with disappointment as their advice went to waste. I'm nearly 15 years married so who ever posted it is eating sour lemons!
---Carla on 9/10/13


\\Personally, I don't think it was ever posted. Cluny is making this one up. It could even be someone posing as Cluny. Can't be too careful on these blogs.\\

Think what you want to, but I cut and pasted it from a blog, and I gave the title of the blog. I did not make this up.

I would give its URL if that did not violate the rules.

Of course, if someone is pretending to be me, there would STILL be no way that someone would pretend to be you, right?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/13


Not saying it COULDN'T happen. But I find it highly unlikely that there would be two people who use the screen name "KarenD" on the same Christian blog site, who also happen to have the same email address.
---Jed on 9/9/13


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RitaH...I understand about clicking the screen name to find current posts. But, this one that Cluny is coming up with is four years old. It cannot possibly be linked to my email address as I did not post it. I think I will change my screen name so that this LIE will not be connected to me any longer. Personally, I don't think it was ever posted. Cluny is making this one up. It could even be someone posing as Cluny. Can't be too careful on these blogs.
---KarenD on 9/9/13


"I've been in the same situation with my husband who won't give me enough attention and affection. A male friend at church says he can give me what my husband won't. I don't want to waste the rest of my life with a man who doesn't meet my needs. I'm going for it.
---KarenD on 5/10/09"

Clicking the name KarenD on the post above took me straight to the post I now answer. Both are linked by the email address from which they were sent I assume so if they are not the same person the present day KarenD should take this up with the Moderator and ask for the older post to be removed.
---Rita_H on 9/9/13


Well,

The bible said let the unbelieving spouse depart, for such is not bound, therefore marriage is not binding for unbelievers because they have no part in the kingdom of heaven therefore they can leave the marriage.

But leaving the marriage and the unbeliever wanting to remain married to you, in my humble opinion, it that you are not subjected to any unhappiness by your spouse and you both can live peaceably.

If there is no peace or you are in danger of losing your salvation depart, but leave room always for reconciliation.

However if the intital reason was not adultery you are both not permitted to remarry it is adultery, because your ist reason was for peace.
---Carla on 9/9/13


I had no idea we had access to posts that old. I remember a time when another Karen posted but she did not use the D. Another person got very upset once when someone used the same first name to post. Guess she thought she was the only one with that name.
---KarenD on 9/8/13


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\\Cluny...You accusations border on defamation of character.
---KarenD on 9/8/13


Cluny...Absolutely was not me who posted such nonsense. I have ALWAYS posted positive comments regarding my husband on this site.
---KarenD on 9/8/13\\

If you are NOT the KarenD I quoted here (and I certainly did not make it up), then good for you and God be praised.

What I gave here is a direct cut and paste from a blog called Divorce, Separate Or Lie.

I have no way of knowing of there are two people using the screen name "KarenD," therefore I'm not defaming your character.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/13


Cluny...You accusations border on defamation of character.
---KarenD on 9/8/13


Cluny...Absolutely was not me who posted such nonsense. I have ALWAYS posted positive comments regarding my husband on this site.
---KarenD on 9/8/13


KarenD, are you saying you are NOT the person who posted this a few years ago?

+++++
**Kenny, Thank you. I've been in the same situation with my husband who won't give me enough attention and affection. A male friend at church says he can give me what my husband won't. I don't want to waste the rest of my life with a man who doesn't meet my needs. I'm going for it.
---KarenD on 5/10/09**
+++++++++

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/13


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Cluny...You are VERY, VERY, VERY mistaken. My husband and I are happily married for many years and pastoring a church. We have had a great deal of success with matchmaking if you are interested.
---KarenD on 9/8/13


KarenD, 4 years ago, you said you were going to go with a man (at your church, unless I'm mistaken) who was going to give you what your husband wasn't.

Did you ever do so? Or did you think better of it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/13


God does not allow His children to ask for divorce. HE did not allow me to ask for it until my ex did. So continue to discuss your problems with God until solution will come.
---adetunji on 9/5/13


If you're a Christian, harken unto the words of Jesus Christ:

"Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Matthew 19:6-9
---christan on 9/5/13


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Is it because you can do better or that your spouse can do better?
---Elder on 9/4/13


KarenD, it looks like your saying yes! Why?
I just started laughing.

As to the question Kangmara!
A hundred years is not a long time!
Even though it seem like an eternity, for a short time.
It only looks greener over there, but its the same green.
Ask someone, who has seen it! They will tell you!
The same thing.

Live each day as if it was your last.
God keep you.
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/4/13


Yes, WHY????
---KarenD on 9/4/13


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